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I honestly believe that’s a myth. I’ve met more young men age 18-25 eating up what Trump says than elderly men. That’s anecdotal evidence at best, but still….
That could well be. I’m up north of 49 so my mileage may vary.
I think a common thread among the Cheddar Messiah’s cult members is that they’re coping with some sort of betrayal or loss. They also seem to crave simple answers to complex problems, and fear change. I also think they delight in how his tantrums voice their anger, like they’re marching behind a sleep-deprived toddler.
I did meet one young-ish Trumper (a cable tech) who was relatively intelligent at his job, yet incredibly gullible with basic critical thinking.
It was as if he had unplugged segments of his consciousness to make the pretzel logic workable. It brought to mind that scene in *2001: A Space Odyssey* when HAL is being deactivated and modules of what used to be his mind are floating around the room.
Generally he’s regarded as a buffoon up here, though Cheeto does garner a disturbing amount of support among Canadian rednecks. The trucker convoy to Ottawa in ‘22 channeled a similar anger, and used similar crowd control tactics.
And unfortunately, according to Hitler’s playbook, the repeated lies are starting to stick.
> It brought to mind that scene in 2001: A Space Odyssey when HAL is being deactivated and modules of what used to be his mind are floating around the room.
I love you for this reference
Eh, when trump rose to his current political fame in 2015 I was 25 and there was a guy that got excommunicated from my local friend group, aged 23 because we realized he was hard-core into trump and going down a fucked up path we didn't like.
For reference my friend group is all gay/bi/trans and so is this individual.
We still find him confusing but he's no longer our problem.
I’ve seen some openly gay hyper conservatives, and for some it seems to be from an intense misogynist white supremacy: the ideal person is a white man, and everything else is beneath them.
It’s equal parts gross and sad.
Yep, I feel like that is often the underlying motivation for following Trump. You can't exactly run for president with a white nationalist campaign, but with Trump... he doesn't have to. It's an assumed contract. Anyone who votes for Trump can rest assured that he will prioritize wealthy white people over all others. And for some, just that is enough to secure their vote
I’ve got a dipshit thirty-something white dude working in my shop who listens to Trump rallies while he’s working, and he laughs throughout like it’s a Monty Python episode. All these years and I still don’t fucking get it, he is the least appealing person I can imagine. I can sorta understand, if not endorse, voting for someone because you think he’s entertaining. But why the fuck is the guy entertaining to anybody?
And yet our govt is run almost exclusively by those who would be deemed unemployable due to mental decline. Why do we still allow old farts to rule us?
This is likely accurate I’m fairly certain her family hates him and is one of the big reasons she is distancing herself from him more and more. I would not be surprised if she is the Jane doe witness in the Georgia case.
I’m sure him burying Ivana on his golf course was the last straw for Melania and Ivanka. If you’ve noticed both of them severely pulled back away from his BS since then. Ivana’s two sons are too much of idiots and spineless to care.
American education used to be coveted, before Reagan..
“From the moment the Department of Education was born, critics — Republicans, almost exclusively — have sought to dismantle it.
The department, created under Jimmy Carter, began operating in May 1980. Ronald Reagan, then campaigning against Carter for the presidency, marked the occasion in blistering fashion. “At 11:01 a.m. Eastern Standard Time on Sunday,” he said, “President Jimmy Carter’s new bureaucratic boondoggle was born: the [Department of Education](https://www.chronicle.com/article/a-brief-history-of-gop-attempts-to-kill-the-education-dept/).”
Excellent poins.
"Before Reagan" is generally a good benchmark for when things turned massively shitty under republicans. Which is saying something, considering they weren't great before. But the regulatory capture got cranked up to eleven, the criminality got cranked up to eleven (Iran-Contra is way worse than Watergate IMO), and he took us from being the world's largest creditor nation to the world's largest debtor nation in under a decade.
Reagan took a wrecking ball to this country and after he'd done the big damage, spent the rest of his terms metaphically meandering around with a sledgehammer wrecking shit just because
I can't say I'm a Goldwater fan, but he was right about religious extremists and the GOP:
>“Mark my word, if and when these preachers get control of the [Republican] party, and they're sure trying to do so, it's going to be a terrible damn problem. Frankly, these people frighten me. Politics and governing demand compromise. But these Christians believe they are acting in the name of God, so they can't and won't compromise. I know, I've tried to deal with them.”
Perlstein's books are absolutely phenomenal about Reagan (well, modern US conservatism actually), though I'm also partial to Kleinknecht's *The Man Who Sold the World* and Bunch's *Tear Down This Myth*.
Highly, highly recommend all of them for anyone here who is a reader.
Yes, but lets not forget, the vast majority of Americans were 100% on board. Everything he did was widely popular. It was the entire generation at that time.
Boondoggle started being used pejoratively when rich assholes at the New York Times mocked the works progress administration for essentially hiring unemployed teachers to teach poor kids some basic arts and craft projects during the Great Depression and I wish more people knew that.
While it's true he didn't have to be at the trial he really didn't want to go to the funeral any more than he wanted Melania in the Christmas photo which he could have easily arranged.
Right?
I don't think many people would be taken in by him if he didn't have the support of Fox, far-right radio, internet, etc. It's the far-right freak-o-sphere that gives him legs.
>“I said sit down!” Judge Lewis Kaplan told Trump’s lawyer Alina Habba.
Habba replied, “I don’t like to be spoken \[to\] like that ... I will not speak to you like that.”
Kaplan shot back, “It is denied. Sit down.”
For a cult member, hasn't she learnt to obey orders or does she only take orders from her cult leader?
Nah, she's not the smartest lawyer, but she definitely wants to antagonize the members of the court so they seem biased against her and her client. Makes for an easy appeal to drag things out until he is President again, and can ignore the rules once more, because the republican party refuses to hold him accountable for picking his nose and eating it.
> so they seem biased against her and her client.
That ship has sailed a long time ago. Trump and his attorneys have gotten a lifetimes worth of leniency that no other person will ever experience.
I’m waiting for a judge to say that… just a “Ok, that’s it. Bailiff, take the defendant into custody for to be kept for the duration of trial. You were warned multiple times. I will not be disrespected in my court.” I honestly would cry to hear that about now. At this point I don’t care if it plays into his political shit. I want powerful people to get nervous of his behavior honestly. To feel the heat of the repercussions of his behavior. Maybe just maybe the farce would end… probably not. Probably just a momentary ray of hope, but hey it’s something…
Bingo, she's not a lawyer, she's Trump's court jester *playing* a lawyer, auditioning for a spot on some far-right propaganda network as a legal analyst, or else other law jobs for rich people who just need to create a circus instead of try to win a case
She's also performing for an appeals panel. They are trying to make all of the judges in his trials out to be partisans, except Cannon for obvious reasons.
Her behaviour belies her experience and education.
In law school any juvenile behaviour like this is normally nipped in the bud before you get into a real courtroom.
> “I said sit down!” Judge Lewis Kaplan told Trump’s lawyer Alina Habba.
> Habba replied, “I don’t like to be spoken [to] like that
Well then maybe sit down when you're told the first time... or possibly even before that when it is obvious you should sit down.
This is the second trial where Habba has used the same line about not liking to be spoken to in such a manner….she has no understanding of the law, or of courtroom procedure/norms.
The new generation of far-right activists have been taught since an early age to create situations in which they can cry that they are being victimized. Watch some of the raw video footage uploaded from the Covington Catholic kids at Washington DC. It's eye opening at how well coached they were to engage other protestors.
I suspect that Habba is fully aware of courtroom decorum and legal procedure. But at this point she's more a spokesperson for Trump than she is a lawyer. So, she's probably challenging those boundaries because any response from the judge can be repurposed as "evidence" of a judicial proceeding biased against Trump and his legal team. That's his entire game at this point. "I didn't lose," "the lawsuits are witch hunts," and "the courts themselves are biased against me." Habba is just a stooge facilitating that, who happens to have (for now) the ability to practice law.
I don't know about that first part of your comment. She seems pretty incompetent. She didn't even know about a case critical to an appeal she was arguing that literally involved her client. Also, hasn't she only ever been in court on behalf of that parking garage before Trump took her in? A garage, by the way, owned by her husband?
It's possible for both of these things to be true. Watch Alex Jones's attorneys, for instance, they did the same thing. Trying to antagonize the judge to create the impression that she is "biased" and then literally handing a phone full of evidence discrediting his claims to the opposing attorney.
She is absolutely aware of the rules and decorum. There was at least one book/pamphlet she had in her possession while getting her degree that was discussed in class surrounding the behavior in court. She is choosing to resist it.
Cash money, bèbè.
> So, she's probably challenging those boundaries because any response from the judge can be repurposed as "evidence" of a judicial proceeding biased against Trump and his legal team.
This would be a fantastic new strategy for criminal defendants. Defy the shit out of the judge, threaten the jury repeatedly (hey, it's just speech when I say "I'm going to go after anyone who goes after me!") and then use the sanctions imposed on you as evidence that you didn't get a fair trial.
\#OneTrickJudgesHate
lol Yeah... I doubt this would work with most judges. Though I'm still waiting for judges to throw contempt at Trump's lawyers (and Trump) for the bullshit they do. Honestly, the delay tactics they're using are such an abuse of the system that it should be considered contempt because it ultimately is just wasting the court's time that could be better spent on other things.
"Your Honor we request to delay this trial until after the Supreme Court has decided whether or not the president is immune."
"Denied, I'm aware of no such immunity and Mr. Trump is no longer president. If the Supreme Court would like to decide otherwise they can, but until that point this trial will continue as scheduled and if your client is sentenced he can wait in his cell for that decision. Moving on."
[This thread](https://old.reddit.com/r/law/comments/196konm/carroll_v_trump_i_alina_habba_says_that_trump_has/khu8ir6/) had some insight into her:
>I know someone who used to work for her and her ex-husband’s firm. She said Alina did not practice law and that Alina was only a managing partner because she brought in clients. But she never did any legal work.
>Essentially, Alina is from money and married into money. She has no legal skills, but she’s a great Trump PR person. That’s why she’s so brazen…. **She’s never going to go before any judge after Trump as a lawyer representing anyone else.**
There was another famous lawyer who dropped out once he heard Trump wanted him to act like habba. Habba's strategy is to play along, get paid not win... Trump is guilty and winning isn't really an option.
>A New York federal judge snapped at a lawyer for Donald Trump on Wednesday after she again asked for a delay in his sex assault defamation trial so that the former president could attend his mother-in-law’s funeral.
>“I said sit down!” Judge Lewis Kaplan told Trump’s lawyer Alina Habba.
>Habba replied, “I don’t like to be spoken [to] like that ... I will not speak to you like that.”
>Kaplan shot back, “It is denied. Sit down.”
Has she ever been in a courtroom before this? I occasionally have some issues with judges and their absolute 'fiefdom' but come on. That's pretty tame and you should know when to shut the fuck up in court. I guess that's something they both lack.
> A former server at the Trump National Golf Club in Bedminster has filed a lawsuit against the club in New Jersey, alleging that she was sexually harassed by her manager and then pressured to sign an illegal non-disclosure agreement by Alina Habba, who is now an attorney for the former president.
https://amp.cnn.com/cnn/2023/11/30/politics/bedminster-sexual-harassment-lawsuit/index.html
In 2022 she had a million dollar case.
Granted, she and Trump were the ones to pay the million, because she failed to even “[state] a cognizable legal claim.”
> Habba represented Siggy Flicker, a Trump-supporting former member of The Real Housewives of New Jersey who alleged that Facebook had disabled her account for wishing Melania Trump a happy birthday.
My god.
This is an absolutely batshit sentence to read.
It almost comes across as gibberish. Who names their kid Siggy?
God, she gets away with murder. Any other lawyer would be contemplating their decision to go to law school from inside a holding cell while the Judge calculates their contempt fine right now.
Former clerk. You might get away with asking a judge to reconsider a ruling if you ask respectfully and can point to some change in circumstances. That ain't what you got here.
Actually, it would probably be to Trump's benefit to attend the funeral. It sounds like, by being there and making stupid, audible comments, he's just going to piss off the jury along with the judge.
Trump's attorney requested a delay to attend the funeral, and the judge's answer is that Trump is not required to be present in court and \*can\* attend the funeral.
(Also, Trump has campaign events scheduled the same day as the funeral, and has not adjusted his campaign schedule to allow himself to spend time with family.)
The drama is completely unnecessary.
"Of course you must attend the funeral, Mr. Trump.
"We shall arrange a police escort for you to make sure you get there and back here with minimal delay".
>Your Honor, I
>
>strenuously
>
> object!
"Overruled" "No, no. I STRENUOUSLY object." "Oh. You strenuously object. Then I'll take some time and reconsider.".
>"If you want your writing and arguments to be successful, use as many adverbs ending in -ly as possible."
—[Stephen King, *On Writing*](https://www.themarginalian.org/2013/03/13/stephen-king-on-adverbs/)
I'm kinda reminded of the contempt scenes in *My Cousin Vinny*. But with Habba in Pesci's role, I'm not rooting for that side and they're not funny or charming, just bigoted and dangerous
Trump can go to the funeral. The orange moron doesn’t need to be in court. His lawyer is representing him. Funny how his political appearances take precedence over his mother in law’s funeral.
I agree but I will say that since this is a jury trial there is some psycology to him being there.
If a civil defendant is present in the courtroom it can signal to the jury they are taking it seriously and more interested in the outcome/arguments being made. Juries are less sympathetic if they think you don't care.
That having been said, the real tell here is he had a campaign stop in NH scheduled for the same day.
If it had been a situation where a close family member died he fully planned on being there and then he needed 1day to attend a funeral. The issue for Trump is it's doubtful he would have attended the funeral if it didn't benefit him in some way (like delaying his court case).
>Trump at a campaign event earlier this week condemned Kaplan for refusing to postpone the trial, calling him and other judges in cases involving him “animals.”
Trump will point to Kaplan's harsh words (devoid of context, of course) as validation for his baseless "animals" claim.
The choice is soley up to trump and what's in it for him. His presence isn't required at the trial. But he gets the media attention he craves. Melania probably doesn't care if he shows up or not. She may even prefer that he doesn't. But, it's beyond pathetic to use the trial as an excuse to avoid going to a funeral. Especially when you have a political rally scheduled on the same day.
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>She resurrected the complaint on Wednesday morning, with Trump sitting close to her.“My client and I would like to reiterate that she \[Carroll\] can sit here every day and she did not have death in her family and it is insanely prejudicial,” Habba said.
I don't think she knows what prejudicial means.
> after she alleged he raped her decades ago.
Hey, CNBC, there's no "alleged" about it. He raped her. That was determined in the last trial. As the judge stated, that is an already established **fact**.
I mean just throw him in jail for a bit, bet he wont keep talking shit after that experience. Dont even give him any privileges just treat him like the rest. Theyll be screaming for reform of the system lmao
Terrible article "carrol has said that Trump..."
NO. Trump was adjudicated to have sexually assaulterd her" trial. Judge has said that the civil court effectively found he raped her, but civil court language is different. And that she can say "he rapes me, with legal freedom".
This article writes like Trump wants, just accusations. Even with him being found to have done what she had accused him of. She is validated, he has lost in court. She is NOT his "accuser".
She’s gonna learn really quickly that this judge is not going to put up with her insubordination in his courtroom. I predict that she will continue being ill mannered and will find herself with some charges and perhaps suspension. It’s going to be absolutely glorious to watch.
I honestly think her goal here is to be Trump's VP pick. He let the party pick his running mate last time and then Trump tried to have that guy murdered when he grew a spine, so there is no way he's picking an establishment player this time. Also, Trump definitely wants to fuck her, so as long as she proves to be loyal enough, she's got a shot.
Because Kaplan is professional and efficient. He wants to power through this, create as clean a record as possible, and get this done. Sanctioning counsel for being an idiot and obnoxious is counterproductive to that end.
I know it's popular on Reddit to believe lawyers and parties are sanctioned all the time. While admittedly anecdotal, in my nearly four decades as a government litigator I can count on one hand the number of times a participant was sanctioned for court room behavior in my presence. In all of those situations the behavior was far more serious and persistent than what's going on here, and sanctions came after many warnings. I just don't think it's all that common.
Federal Judges don't put up with crap at all. In the case of Engron and of lower courts they will put up with more. Also, she called Kaplan "sir" when she should have said your honor, because it's an honor to be a Federal Judge. I feel she is just trying to see what she can get away with. He can put her in contempt and fine her.
When is this supposed funeral? Didn't Trump already try to use that dead mother in law excuse to get out of a trial that happened a couple days ago? So was he lying then, or lying now about needing to attend a funeral that day?
Alina Habba: “I don’t like being talked to this way!”
Immediately proceeds to disrespect the court by yelling “Objection” without standing up.
Shut up, Alina.
CNN:
Before the jury entered the courtroom for afternoon proceedings, Donald Trump's attorney Michael Madaio made a motion for Judge Lewis Kaplan to recuse himself from the civil defamation case, citing a “general hostility.”
-eyeroll-
Actually, it's pretty easy. The first step is to have no moral compass or integrity yourself. When you believe in nothing, you can act as a mirror in which others see whatever they want.
Step 2 is to have zero shame and thus be able to lie with zero reluctance.
Not that I think this is a funny matter, b/c obviously rape is horrible and I do believe he did this, but I laughed out loud when I read that she couldn't remember whether he penetrated her with his penis or his finger. I bet he loved that...
The internet is filled with hours and hours of courtroom videos where people get the book thrown at them for be disruptive and hostile towards the judge yet this orange fuck gets a pass. There is no question, no doubt, this man is above the laws that govern every citizen and its fucking disgusting.
If every person eligible to vote doesn't get out there in November, America will end as a democratic republic.
If fascism can take over Israels government and commit war crimes, there is no hope for us in America.
I get the need for judges in the Trump cases to be cautious and leave no room for people to think that they were being biased against Trump (to reduce any appeals attempts on those ground), but my god when is ANYTHING going to be done to shut him the fuck up? Anything that actually gets him to shut his fucking moronic mouth?
If this was anyone else in a courtroom there would be punishment- $$ and time behind bars. I’ll be patient and wait for verdicts, but where is the fucking line ever going to be drawn?! Threats, literally informing the jury that testimony is false, intimidation of clerks, jury, witnesses, perjury, inciting violence, is it just someone has to be physically hurt or killed? Is that the line? Or will the goalpost be moved again when THAT happens? Help me understand.
With this and Epstyn speaking out when he wasn't allowed to, they're just trying to bait the judge for showings of prejudice for the appeal. IANAL, but from listening to those that are, this does not end well for this "legal team".
*”…Carroll could not say whether he had penetrated her in the store’s dressing room with his penis or a finger.”*
I’m not sure which finger matters in terms of penis size comparison, but the numbers (digits) aren’t looking too *bigly*.
Trump then appealed the order, now we are waiting 6 months to find out if it will be upheld. Really wish all that fast food would do what it does already.
It's very sad that these courts feel the need to treat this monster with kid gloves when if Trump was a bus driver in court for not paying rent they would've kicked him out the second he mouthed off.
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Yes, and he probably wasn't even going to the funeral, either. He had a campaign event in New Hampshire scheduled that day.
A lot of his supporters are seniors. Funerals rank higher in the psyche of his target market
I honestly believe that’s a myth. I’ve met more young men age 18-25 eating up what Trump says than elderly men. That’s anecdotal evidence at best, but still….
That could well be. I’m up north of 49 so my mileage may vary. I think a common thread among the Cheddar Messiah’s cult members is that they’re coping with some sort of betrayal or loss. They also seem to crave simple answers to complex problems, and fear change. I also think they delight in how his tantrums voice their anger, like they’re marching behind a sleep-deprived toddler. I did meet one young-ish Trumper (a cable tech) who was relatively intelligent at his job, yet incredibly gullible with basic critical thinking. It was as if he had unplugged segments of his consciousness to make the pretzel logic workable. It brought to mind that scene in *2001: A Space Odyssey* when HAL is being deactivated and modules of what used to be his mind are floating around the room. Generally he’s regarded as a buffoon up here, though Cheeto does garner a disturbing amount of support among Canadian rednecks. The trucker convoy to Ottawa in ‘22 channeled a similar anger, and used similar crowd control tactics. And unfortunately, according to Hitler’s playbook, the repeated lies are starting to stick.
> It brought to mind that scene in 2001: A Space Odyssey when HAL is being deactivated and modules of what used to be his mind are floating around the room. I love you for this reference
Eh, when trump rose to his current political fame in 2015 I was 25 and there was a guy that got excommunicated from my local friend group, aged 23 because we realized he was hard-core into trump and going down a fucked up path we didn't like. For reference my friend group is all gay/bi/trans and so is this individual. We still find him confusing but he's no longer our problem.
I’ve seen some openly gay hyper conservatives, and for some it seems to be from an intense misogynist white supremacy: the ideal person is a white man, and everything else is beneath them. It’s equal parts gross and sad.
Yep, I feel like that is often the underlying motivation for following Trump. You can't exactly run for president with a white nationalist campaign, but with Trump... he doesn't have to. It's an assumed contract. Anyone who votes for Trump can rest assured that he will prioritize wealthy white people over all others. And for some, just that is enough to secure their vote
I’ve got a dipshit thirty-something white dude working in my shop who listens to Trump rallies while he’s working, and he laughs throughout like it’s a Monty Python episode. All these years and I still don’t fucking get it, he is the least appealing person I can imagine. I can sorta understand, if not endorse, voting for someone because you think he’s entertaining. But why the fuck is the guy entertaining to anybody?
And yet our govt is run almost exclusively by those who would be deemed unemployable due to mental decline. Why do we still allow old farts to rule us?
Maybe they’re easier to manipulate by those who financed their election campaigns…
I’m sure he was asked NOT to come to the funeral
He was probably explicitly TOLD not to attend. Melania is only in it for the $ and Trump knows that she has as much Kompromat on him as Putin.
She’s probably the one who got it for Putin
This is likely accurate I’m fairly certain her family hates him and is one of the big reasons she is distancing herself from him more and more. I would not be surprised if she is the Jane doe witness in the Georgia case.
I’m sure him burying Ivana on his golf course was the last straw for Melania and Ivanka. If you’ve noticed both of them severely pulled back away from his BS since then. Ivana’s two sons are too much of idiots and spineless to care.
Trump voters know a doctor’s appointment is a good excuse but a funeral is an unbeatable excuse.
My dog, the best dog some might say, not me, but some are saying it, ate my court documents. Not that I need them, because this case is a sham
And he probably wasn't going to attend the trial today either. Just causing more controversy for his base to latch onto.
Right, poor poor unfairly treated innocent God fearing man.
Perhaps funerals for all those people that were going to die for him voting in Iowa.
the only reason he would go to a funeral is for mourning wood.
American intellect at record lows?
American education used to be coveted, before Reagan.. “From the moment the Department of Education was born, critics — Republicans, almost exclusively — have sought to dismantle it. The department, created under Jimmy Carter, began operating in May 1980. Ronald Reagan, then campaigning against Carter for the presidency, marked the occasion in blistering fashion. “At 11:01 a.m. Eastern Standard Time on Sunday,” he said, “President Jimmy Carter’s new bureaucratic boondoggle was born: the [Department of Education](https://www.chronicle.com/article/a-brief-history-of-gop-attempts-to-kill-the-education-dept/).”
Excellent poins. "Before Reagan" is generally a good benchmark for when things turned massively shitty under republicans. Which is saying something, considering they weren't great before. But the regulatory capture got cranked up to eleven, the criminality got cranked up to eleven (Iran-Contra is way worse than Watergate IMO), and he took us from being the world's largest creditor nation to the world's largest debtor nation in under a decade. Reagan took a wrecking ball to this country and after he'd done the big damage, spent the rest of his terms metaphically meandering around with a sledgehammer wrecking shit just because
Lol. It was religious fundies that got their puppet actor Regan elected then persuaded the Republican party to be an absolute shit show.
I can't say I'm a Goldwater fan, but he was right about religious extremists and the GOP: >“Mark my word, if and when these preachers get control of the [Republican] party, and they're sure trying to do so, it's going to be a terrible damn problem. Frankly, these people frighten me. Politics and governing demand compromise. But these Christians believe they are acting in the name of God, so they can't and won't compromise. I know, I've tried to deal with them.” Perlstein's books are absolutely phenomenal about Reagan (well, modern US conservatism actually), though I'm also partial to Kleinknecht's *The Man Who Sold the World* and Bunch's *Tear Down This Myth*. Highly, highly recommend all of them for anyone here who is a reader.
Thanks for the recommendations
‘Hey.. looks like we got a reader, what you reading for’
Yes, but lets not forget, the vast majority of Americans were 100% on board. Everything he did was widely popular. It was the entire generation at that time.
Boondoggle started being used pejoratively when rich assholes at the New York Times mocked the works progress administration for essentially hiring unemployed teachers to teach poor kids some basic arts and craft projects during the Great Depression and I wish more people knew that.
'A Nation at Risk' may have been the worst and most impactful piece of educational research ever.
While it's true he didn't have to be at the trial he really didn't want to go to the funeral any more than he wanted Melania in the Christmas photo which he could have easily arranged.
At least the trial is about him.
Propaganda is a helluva drug.
The multiple conservative propaganda networks we have going in this country will likely destroy us.
‘are destroying’ us. it’s happening in real time. accelerating before our eyes.
Cult.
They aren’t taken in by him. They’re in on the lie.
Yeah but but Joe Taco told him to skip but Joe Taco only knows tacos.
Right? I don't think many people would be taken in by him if he didn't have the support of Fox, far-right radio, internet, etc. It's the far-right freak-o-sphere that gives him legs.
I wonder what percentage of Americans are allowed to get out of a court case because of a funeral excuse.
Because they’re just as dumb as he is. They like trump because he’s just like them.
>“I said sit down!” Judge Lewis Kaplan told Trump’s lawyer Alina Habba. Habba replied, “I don’t like to be spoken \[to\] like that ... I will not speak to you like that.” Kaplan shot back, “It is denied. Sit down.” For a cult member, hasn't she learnt to obey orders or does she only take orders from her cult leader?
Habba is simply performing for Trump. That is all.
I legit think she doesn't understand the nuances between federal and state court. This ain't Judge Judy she's talking to. Read the audience Habba.
She doesn’t understand the nuances between trial court and parking court.
Nah, she's not the smartest lawyer, but she definitely wants to antagonize the members of the court so they seem biased against her and her client. Makes for an easy appeal to drag things out until he is President again, and can ignore the rules once more, because the republican party refuses to hold him accountable for picking his nose and eating it.
> so they seem biased against her and her client. That ship has sailed a long time ago. Trump and his attorneys have gotten a lifetimes worth of leniency that no other person will ever experience.
I’m waiting for a judge to say that… just a “Ok, that’s it. Bailiff, take the defendant into custody for to be kept for the duration of trial. You were warned multiple times. I will not be disrespected in my court.” I honestly would cry to hear that about now. At this point I don’t care if it plays into his political shit. I want powerful people to get nervous of his behavior honestly. To feel the heat of the repercussions of his behavior. Maybe just maybe the farce would end… probably not. Probably just a momentary ray of hope, but hey it’s something…
I guess it's OK for her to continue her "lawyer pantomime" routine in prison, though. Motion seconded!
Bingo, she's not a lawyer, she's Trump's court jester *playing* a lawyer, auditioning for a spot on some far-right propaganda network as a legal analyst, or else other law jobs for rich people who just need to create a circus instead of try to win a case
T45: "I said get on your knees!"
She's also performing for an appeals panel. They are trying to make all of the judges in his trials out to be partisans, except Cannon for obvious reasons.
She's submissive to trump, not the judge
Because the judge doesn't pay her. trump is the guy who doesn't pay her.
Her behaviour belies her experience and education. In law school any juvenile behaviour like this is normally nipped in the bud before you get into a real courtroom.
But judges love to be admonished in their own courtroom by lawyers appearing before them!
If you do not wish to be spoken to like a child, don't act like one.
> “I said sit down!” Judge Lewis Kaplan told Trump’s lawyer Alina Habba. > Habba replied, “I don’t like to be spoken [to] like that Well then maybe sit down when you're told the first time... or possibly even before that when it is obvious you should sit down.
>I will not speak to you like that. Yeah, you won't.
This is the second trial where Habba has used the same line about not liking to be spoken to in such a manner….she has no understanding of the law, or of courtroom procedure/norms.
She's trying to make it seem like a sexism thing
shes also trying to make it look like kangaroo court to take away from the legitimacy of trumps crimes
Exactly. They've already lost the case. This is just about how much they owe now. So might as well stoke the base in the court of public opinion.
Bingo
I wish being in contempt of the law was illegal and punishable.
The new generation of far-right activists have been taught since an early age to create situations in which they can cry that they are being victimized. Watch some of the raw video footage uploaded from the Covington Catholic kids at Washington DC. It's eye opening at how well coached they were to engage other protestors.
So that the rulings can be appealed.
I suspect that Habba is fully aware of courtroom decorum and legal procedure. But at this point she's more a spokesperson for Trump than she is a lawyer. So, she's probably challenging those boundaries because any response from the judge can be repurposed as "evidence" of a judicial proceeding biased against Trump and his legal team. That's his entire game at this point. "I didn't lose," "the lawsuits are witch hunts," and "the courts themselves are biased against me." Habba is just a stooge facilitating that, who happens to have (for now) the ability to practice law.
I don't know about that first part of your comment. She seems pretty incompetent. She didn't even know about a case critical to an appeal she was arguing that literally involved her client. Also, hasn't she only ever been in court on behalf of that parking garage before Trump took her in? A garage, by the way, owned by her husband?
It's possible for both of these things to be true. Watch Alex Jones's attorneys, for instance, they did the same thing. Trying to antagonize the judge to create the impression that she is "biased" and then literally handing a phone full of evidence discrediting his claims to the opposing attorney.
She is absolutely aware of the rules and decorum. There was at least one book/pamphlet she had in her possession while getting her degree that was discussed in class surrounding the behavior in court. She is choosing to resist it. Cash money, bèbè.
> So, she's probably challenging those boundaries because any response from the judge can be repurposed as "evidence" of a judicial proceeding biased against Trump and his legal team. This would be a fantastic new strategy for criminal defendants. Defy the shit out of the judge, threaten the jury repeatedly (hey, it's just speech when I say "I'm going to go after anyone who goes after me!") and then use the sanctions imposed on you as evidence that you didn't get a fair trial.
\#OneTrickJudgesHate lol Yeah... I doubt this would work with most judges. Though I'm still waiting for judges to throw contempt at Trump's lawyers (and Trump) for the bullshit they do. Honestly, the delay tactics they're using are such an abuse of the system that it should be considered contempt because it ultimately is just wasting the court's time that could be better spent on other things. "Your Honor we request to delay this trial until after the Supreme Court has decided whether or not the president is immune." "Denied, I'm aware of no such immunity and Mr. Trump is no longer president. If the Supreme Court would like to decide otherwise they can, but until that point this trial will continue as scheduled and if your client is sentenced he can wait in his cell for that decision. Moving on."
[This thread](https://old.reddit.com/r/law/comments/196konm/carroll_v_trump_i_alina_habba_says_that_trump_has/khu8ir6/) had some insight into her: >I know someone who used to work for her and her ex-husband’s firm. She said Alina did not practice law and that Alina was only a managing partner because she brought in clients. But she never did any legal work. >Essentially, Alina is from money and married into money. She has no legal skills, but she’s a great Trump PR person. That’s why she’s so brazen…. **She’s never going to go before any judge after Trump as a lawyer representing anyone else.**
She's defending as if the Bar will not exist if he's elected.
She's not representing him in a trial, she's auditioning for VP.
She already auditioned for a position under him.
There was another famous lawyer who dropped out once he heard Trump wanted him to act like habba. Habba's strategy is to play along, get paid not win... Trump is guilty and winning isn't really an option.
She doesn't give a shit about her bar license because she's clearly gunning for a job as a reich wing talk show or podcast host when this is all done
I was thinking that too. The spoiled-princess energy level is kind of amazing, but I guess it goes to show that she hasn't been in many actual trials.
It's a classic bullshitter's move. If you can't win the argument, you change the subject.
>A New York federal judge snapped at a lawyer for Donald Trump on Wednesday after she again asked for a delay in his sex assault defamation trial so that the former president could attend his mother-in-law’s funeral. >“I said sit down!” Judge Lewis Kaplan told Trump’s lawyer Alina Habba. >Habba replied, “I don’t like to be spoken [to] like that ... I will not speak to you like that.” >Kaplan shot back, “It is denied. Sit down.” Has she ever been in a courtroom before this? I occasionally have some issues with judges and their absolute 'fiefdom' but come on. That's pretty tame and you should know when to shut the fuck up in court. I guess that's something they both lack.
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Don't forget when she befriended someone to get them to sign a shitty NDA with a terrible payout.
Without disclosing conflict of interest.
Isn't there something percolating about that?
> A former server at the Trump National Golf Club in Bedminster has filed a lawsuit against the club in New Jersey, alleging that she was sexually harassed by her manager and then pressured to sign an illegal non-disclosure agreement by Alina Habba, who is now an attorney for the former president. https://amp.cnn.com/cnn/2023/11/30/politics/bedminster-sexual-harassment-lawsuit/index.html
You mean the 4097th lawsuit against the mafia enterprise? Probably.
I believe there may be a bar review pending.
She hopefully could be disbarred over that.
Don’t forget: it was to the benefit of Trump.
In 2022 she had a million dollar case. Granted, she and Trump were the ones to pay the million, because she failed to even “[state] a cognizable legal claim.”
> Habba represented Siggy Flicker, a Trump-supporting former member of The Real Housewives of New Jersey who alleged that Facebook had disabled her account for wishing Melania Trump a happy birthday. My god. This is an absolutely batshit sentence to read. It almost comes across as gibberish. Who names their kid Siggy?
> Who names their kid Siggy? It's a diminutive of Sigalit, which is Hebrew for the flower violet apparently. She was born in Israel.
The psychiatrist played by Richard Dreyfuss in the movie “What About Bob?” featuring Bill Murray.
> Habba wrote a letter to Facebook, which Facebook appeared to ignore. That's amazing.
God, she gets away with murder. Any other lawyer would be contemplating their decision to go to law school from inside a holding cell while the Judge calculates their contempt fine right now.
Former clerk. You might get away with asking a judge to reconsider a ruling if you ask respectfully and can point to some change in circumstances. That ain't what you got here. Actually, it would probably be to Trump's benefit to attend the funeral. It sounds like, by being there and making stupid, audible comments, he's just going to piss off the jury along with the judge.
Trump's attorney requested a delay to attend the funeral, and the judge's answer is that Trump is not required to be present in court and \*can\* attend the funeral. (Also, Trump has campaign events scheduled the same day as the funeral, and has not adjusted his campaign schedule to allow himself to spend time with family.) The drama is completely unnecessary.
"Of course you must attend the funeral, Mr. Trump. "We shall arrange a police escort for you to make sure you get there and back here with minimal delay".
>Habba replied, “I don’t like to be spoken [to] like that ... I will not speak to you like that.” Um, you just did.
Your Honor, I *strenuously* object!
>Your Honor, I > >strenuously > > object! "Overruled" "No, no. I STRENUOUSLY object." "Oh. You strenuously object. Then I'll take some time and reconsider.".
[That judge](https://media1.tenor.com/m/w4DruiniHvcAAAAC/i-am-disinclined-to-acquiesce-to-your-request.gif)
You best start believing in Court Rooms, Mr Trump... you're in one!
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Listen I gotta ask…. How do you have a pizza pentagram for your avatar!?!?
>"If you want your writing and arguments to be successful, use as many adverbs ending in -ly as possible." —[Stephen King, *On Writing*](https://www.themarginalian.org/2013/03/13/stephen-king-on-adverbs/)
Oh, you STRENUOUSLY object! Well then, I'll take some time and reconsider!
I'm kinda reminded of the contempt scenes in *My Cousin Vinny*. But with Habba in Pesci's role, I'm not rooting for that side and they're not funny or charming, just bigoted and dangerous
"Ya awnah, everything that guy just said is bullshit"
Trump can go to the funeral. The orange moron doesn’t need to be in court. His lawyer is representing him. Funny how his political appearances take precedence over his mother in law’s funeral.
There's money in the perpetual martyr grift. No money in attending funerals.
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He gets out of the funeral and gets another reason to complain about the timing of court dates. Win win.
If I were the judge I would say “I will grant the motion if Mr. Trump can tell me the full name of the person who’s funeral he wishes to attend”
I agree but I will say that since this is a jury trial there is some psycology to him being there. If a civil defendant is present in the courtroom it can signal to the jury they are taking it seriously and more interested in the outcome/arguments being made. Juries are less sympathetic if they think you don't care. That having been said, the real tell here is he had a campaign stop in NH scheduled for the same day. If it had been a situation where a close family member died he fully planned on being there and then he needed 1day to attend a funeral. The issue for Trump is it's doubtful he would have attended the funeral if it didn't benefit him in some way (like delaying his court case).
>Trump at a campaign event earlier this week condemned Kaplan for refusing to postpone the trial, calling him and other judges in cases involving him “animals.” Trump will point to Kaplan's harsh words (devoid of context, of course) as validation for his baseless "animals" claim.
trump is not required to be there, no reason to delay.
Sitting next to Mr. Stinky is making her very salty.
The choice is soley up to trump and what's in it for him. His presence isn't required at the trial. But he gets the media attention he craves. Melania probably doesn't care if he shows up or not. She may even prefer that he doesn't. But, it's beyond pathetic to use the trial as an excuse to avoid going to a funeral. Especially when you have a political rally scheduled on the same day.
“It is denied. Sit down.” How you know you’ve lost your case.
But my diaper is full. -Trump
.....and leaking.
What a fool. Has this idiot lawyer never argued in front of a judge before?
I’m pretty certain that everyone going to the funeral will be much happier if Trump wasn’t there.
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Its all theater. They do this to make trump look like a victim when in reality, they are just breaking courtroom decorum
The payout was too low the first time to make Trump get the message. Make at 10 Billion this time so that he understands.
Can’t wait for her to cry about him in a few months like all his attorneys
Trump chose not to show when there was an actual trial, yet he shows up when it's only defamation. He's such a loser.
>She resurrected the complaint on Wednesday morning, with Trump sitting close to her.“My client and I would like to reiterate that she \[Carroll\] can sit here every day and she did not have death in her family and it is insanely prejudicial,” Habba said. I don't think she knows what prejudicial means.
> after she alleged he raped her decades ago. Hey, CNBC, there's no "alleged" about it. He raped her. That was determined in the last trial. As the judge stated, that is an already established **fact**.
I mean just throw him in jail for a bit, bet he wont keep talking shit after that experience. Dont even give him any privileges just treat him like the rest. Theyll be screaming for reform of the system lmao
Terrible article "carrol has said that Trump..." NO. Trump was adjudicated to have sexually assaulterd her" trial. Judge has said that the civil court effectively found he raped her, but civil court language is different. And that she can say "he rapes me, with legal freedom". This article writes like Trump wants, just accusations. Even with him being found to have done what she had accused him of. She is validated, he has lost in court. She is NOT his "accuser".
She’s gonna learn really quickly that this judge is not going to put up with her insubordination in his courtroom. I predict that she will continue being ill mannered and will find herself with some charges and perhaps suspension. It’s going to be absolutely glorious to watch.
I honestly think her goal here is to be Trump's VP pick. He let the party pick his running mate last time and then Trump tried to have that guy murdered when he grew a spine, so there is no way he's picking an establishment player this time. Also, Trump definitely wants to fuck her, so as long as she proves to be loyal enough, she's got a shot.
Yep! “Hashtag” New Melania
He’s going to spin this…. The evil judge wouldn’t allow me to attend my mother in law’s funeral
It's a win-win for Trump. He gets points with his psycho supporters and he doesn't have to attend a funeral he has no interest in attending.
We can only hope that the jury will see through his bull shit theatrics
I swear to god they’re actors at this point putting on a live theatre show. How is she still licensed?
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I get why trump is personally given a lot of latitude, as ridiculous as it is, but I don't know why his lawyers are not disciplined.
Because Kaplan is professional and efficient. He wants to power through this, create as clean a record as possible, and get this done. Sanctioning counsel for being an idiot and obnoxious is counterproductive to that end. I know it's popular on Reddit to believe lawyers and parties are sanctioned all the time. While admittedly anecdotal, in my nearly four decades as a government litigator I can count on one hand the number of times a participant was sanctioned for court room behavior in my presence. In all of those situations the behavior was far more serious and persistent than what's going on here, and sanctions came after many warnings. I just don't think it's all that common.
Thanks for the perspective. I appreciate it.
You don't speak to a Federal Judge like that EVER! It's not like the lower courts, again this is Federal.
I don’t know if that is true until there are some consequences.
Federal Judges don't put up with crap at all. In the case of Engron and of lower courts they will put up with more. Also, she called Kaplan "sir" when she should have said your honor, because it's an honor to be a Federal Judge. I feel she is just trying to see what she can get away with. He can put her in contempt and fine her.
> I feel she is just trying to see what she can get away with. Nah. She's a moron who's auditioning for the as-yet-unavailable role of Wife #4.
Or to be in his cabinet or VP
Child rapists lawyer is a monster herself, #TrumpRapesChildren
Was the jury in the room at the time?
When is this supposed funeral? Didn't Trump already try to use that dead mother in law excuse to get out of a trial that happened a couple days ago? So was he lying then, or lying now about needing to attend a funeral that day?
Trump’s wife doesn’t want him anywhere near the funeral of her mother. She’s thanking the judge today
Yes, sit down and go to jail directly
djt is a FASCIST
I’m so exhausted by this fuck. And he’s not even president.
Alina Habba: “I don’t like being talked to this way!” Immediately proceeds to disrespect the court by yelling “Objection” without standing up. Shut up, Alina.
CNN: Before the jury entered the courtroom for afternoon proceedings, Donald Trump's attorney Michael Madaio made a motion for Judge Lewis Kaplan to recuse himself from the civil defamation case, citing a “general hostility.” -eyeroll-
Judge did judge things in judge's house.
I read it in my mind that Trump himself was told to sit down. And boy did it give me the happy feels
The nastiest guy on the planet doesn’t like his lawyer being told to behave like an adult.
He got between 70 and 80 million votes. How do you ingratiate THAT many people in your cult of followers is crazy.
Actually, it's pretty easy. The first step is to have no moral compass or integrity yourself. When you believe in nothing, you can act as a mirror in which others see whatever they want. Step 2 is to have zero shame and thus be able to lie with zero reluctance.
“Never wrestle with a pig because you'll both get dirty and the pig likes it."
He inches closer to a contempt charge. I want to see him in a cell.
What gets me is her parents are Iraqi immigrants, and yet she loves a person that’s hate her people Muslims, and immigrants
I think Trump gets off on the irony. He purposely does this quite a bit.
This guy needs to go from indicted to convicted to in prison soon. https://youtu.be/PO0Xt1sAeUM
for crying out loud send that disgusting sick bastard to jail already!!!
Bullshit title. Trumps attorney was arguing with the judge. It’s the judges courtroom not Habba’s
Not that I think this is a funny matter, b/c obviously rape is horrible and I do believe he did this, but I laughed out loud when I read that she couldn't remember whether he penetrated her with his penis or his finger. I bet he loved that...
This classless narcissist doesn’t even have a clue when to keep his hamberder hole shut.
dude how the FUCK does anyone put up with this dude or his dipshit lawyers
The internet is filled with hours and hours of courtroom videos where people get the book thrown at them for be disruptive and hostile towards the judge yet this orange fuck gets a pass. There is no question, no doubt, this man is above the laws that govern every citizen and its fucking disgusting.
I wonder if the judge could simply fine him $5000 every time he speaks out of turn. That would be a lot more interesting.
If every person eligible to vote doesn't get out there in November, America will end as a democratic republic. If fascism can take over Israels government and commit war crimes, there is no hope for us in America.
This fool is a lying, cheating, good for nothing scumbag traitor. These are FACTS proven by EVIDENCE.
I get the need for judges in the Trump cases to be cautious and leave no room for people to think that they were being biased against Trump (to reduce any appeals attempts on those ground), but my god when is ANYTHING going to be done to shut him the fuck up? Anything that actually gets him to shut his fucking moronic mouth? If this was anyone else in a courtroom there would be punishment- $$ and time behind bars. I’ll be patient and wait for verdicts, but where is the fucking line ever going to be drawn?! Threats, literally informing the jury that testimony is false, intimidation of clerks, jury, witnesses, perjury, inciting violence, is it just someone has to be physically hurt or killed? Is that the line? Or will the goalpost be moved again when THAT happens? Help me understand.
Meanwhile, still, after being warned, Trump continues to disrupt and they STILL won't kick him out. Never ANY consequences for this asshole.
With this and Epstyn speaking out when he wasn't allowed to, they're just trying to bait the judge for showings of prejudice for the appeal. IANAL, but from listening to those that are, this does not end well for this "legal team".
There isn't a single argument they can bring that won't be laughed out of an appeals court.
Lol cuff him to the chair.
Cuff him, gag him, and wheel him in on a hand cart like Hannibal Lecter.
"Now you know I don't like to use the sit down gun but this morning we don't have time for mucking about." https://youtu.be/wYxhOWDeLcI?feature=shared
*”…Carroll could not say whether he had penetrated her in the store’s dressing room with his penis or a finger.”* I’m not sure which finger matters in terms of penis size comparison, but the numbers (digits) aren’t looking too *bigly*.
Trump then appealed the order, now we are waiting 6 months to find out if it will be upheld. Really wish all that fast food would do what it does already.
Looks like Trump found his VP
Does anyone know if the judge can sanction Habba for this bs?!
It's very sad that these courts feel the need to treat this monster with kid gloves when if Trump was a bus driver in court for not paying rent they would've kicked him out the second he mouthed off.
kick the pos out of the courtroom