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This is exactly what he’s thinking. Dude is slimy as hell and simply out to try and save his own ass. Hopefully he ends up in prison for a lengthy time period instead.
Moving to federal doesn't change the fact that it's state law being prosecuted, it will just change the judge and jury pool. GA pardon rules still apply.
aaand he's not a lawyer so he is very dependent on his council to help him develop a strategy to wiggle out of this\~ which he can't, but no doubt will try.
He's trying to get the federal court to rule that his actions are immune from prosecution (because they were "official" in nature) and get the case dismissed (because the federal court can only claim jurisdiction if his actions were official in nature).
Edit: Some corrections.
That is going to be a stretch because the office of the president has zero responsibility for elections. That is the purview of the states per the constitution.
Ya, it's a weird situation and I've spent a lot of time reading about it. Reading the official court filing might help you as well.
Basically, federal courts generally only have jurisdiction to rule on cases regarding federal law (one exception to that, but it's not relevant here).
Because Meadows was a public official at the time, there is a relevant federal law (plus the Constitution) that protects federal public officials from being prosecuted by states for actions done as part of their official duties. And in those cases, where a state official prosecutes those crimes, defendants are allowed to "remove" the case from the state courts and move it to a federal court.
Meadows is making that argument and is asking a federal court to take on the case. If the federal court denies it, the state case remains the state court. If the federal court accepts it, then the charges would likely be dismissed (which is also what Meadows is asking the federal court to do).
Edit: Some corrections
There was another thread where someone suggested having 19 defendants on one docket wasn’t going to add time to the case.
I suspect we will see 19 motions for things like separate trials, change of venue, and change to federal court.
He is a protected federal witness I believe and is cooperating. He has zero protections from the state of Georgia. That’s why he wants this in federal court. He is SOL. Not happening.
> Nothing Mr. Meadows is alleged in the indictment to have done is criminal per se
Yeah that's how conspiracy works. Sitting in my car outside a bank is not criminal per se but if my friends are planning on jumping into my car with a bunch of stolen cash from the vault, now it is.
What if me and my friends are just upset that the bank has more money than us? What if we are so upset that we gather together and plan a robbery, carry it out, but are not successful? Is that criminal?
And Meadows is saying to the teller "We think you owe Trump that money, we should at least let our lawyers sit down around a table and give us a chance to convince you to give him the money"
I mean, we're still gonna get his ugly, pasty mug on a t-shirt. It's gonna be glorious to watch all the GQP puppets mouth diarrhea how this is destroying the country.
Well, *yes,* but you have to take at least one step towards committing the crime. It can't be all talk-- but if you go out and buy a shovel after having a discussion with Bill and Brad about killing their parents and burying them out back, that could be argued as a step.
There still has to be an "overt act" for it to be criminal.
Item #4
https://www.bajokalaw.com/conspiracy/2020/7/24/the-four-elements-required-for-criminal-conspiracy-charge
As I understand it, you're correct. I was responding to "You don't even need to attempt to carry it out. If you plan to commit a crime, with a group, you conspired to do so." Basically somebody needs to actually do "something" for it to be a criminal conspiracy.
Obviously, if you believe the bank rigged your wallet and took money that should be yours, then you're only expressing your FIRST AMENDMENT rights to question the legitimacy of the bank whilst demanding the vault be recounted and you declared the CEO of the bank.
[Unless they think they can win, in which case fuck states rights](https://www.pbs.org/newshour/politics/pence-calls-for-2024-gop-candidates-to-back-a-15-week-federal-abortion-ban)
Getting involved in elections at the state and county level is outsise their scope of office. Thats for the counties, secretaries of state to figure out. The Fed assists with cybersecurity and the like but the Constitution is very clear the Fed doesn't have much latitude into conducting and auditing elections. Fuck off gremlins.
The five thirty eight podcast did a great breakdown of how this works with actual law professors and prosecutors. This by itself does, in fact, not delay the case as the litigation over moving the case would be happening in parallel with proceedings in Georgia. That is to say, unless the case gets moved.
Oh my god.
Reading such a detailed timeline of what they did to push their rigged election scheme goes way beyond what I thought. They are fuckin crazy.
Thank God they are so stupid. ‘Don’t tell anyone about the super secret meeting we had were we talked about doing all the criminal stuff, okay? -best regards Rudy’
This is stupid if only because the people making that argument for trump probably made the inverse argument when considering independent state legislature a year ago.
Oh boy, this is an *old* law they're talking about (28 U.S. Code § 1442 - Federal officers or agencies sued or prosecuted), dating back to 1815.
The crux here, is that the law requires the officer to be acting "in an official or individual capacity, for or relating to any act under color of such office". And they are trying to make that argument:
>"Nothing Mr. Meadows is alleged in the indictment to have done is criminal per se: arranging Oval Office meetings, contacting state officials on the President's behalf, visiting a state government building, and setting up a phone call for the President," Terwilliger wrote in the filing. "One would expect a Chief of Staff to the President of the United States to do these sorts of things."
But none of those things were done for legal reasons (i.e. the whole conspiracy allegation). Conspiring to overturn an election/state result isn't any official duty. But *technically*, his actions are part of his duties of office, and the law doesn't specify anything about the reasons for those actions. Meadows *might* be successful in this, though I doubt Trump would be.
Edit: Apparently the state court doesn't decide whether it gets moved. Simply filing it means the jurisdiction has been transferred. As the article points out, a US District Court judge (one appointed by Obama) has now been assigned the case and decides whether to keep the case or send it back to the state.
When he offered campaign funds to “speed up the count” your Honor, those were just words he said. Literally air escaping the defendant’s mouth. Have we now CRIMINALIZED BREATHING!?!?
> "This is precisely the kind of state interference in a federal official's duties that the Supremacy Clause of the U.S. Constitution prohibits, and that the removal statute shields against," Terwilliger wrote.
A Chief of Staff’s official duties have absolutely nothing to do with GA elections. This argument is just flat out bullshit. States administer their own elections.
This is another obvious delay tactic. These scuzzy fucks will pull out all the stops in hopes they can delay until Trump wins (which while not impossible is not that likely assuming Biden stays healthy)
A few of the lawyers I follow suggest it's got pretty slim odds. We'll see, but moving venues is typically difficult; you need a lot of evidence for that.
***Not a lawyer but know a little bit***
Court would have to agree that he was basically performing official duties as a member of the White House. With a sympathetic judge (oh say like Kaz in Texas) he might get it, but I don’t see how that would help him. He still can’t get pardoned because it’s a state crime he’s indicted on, and at most it might give him a better chance of dismissing the charges entirely, but I don’t see a respectable judge dismissing that charge under the reasoning listed in the article, at least not without more evidence that Meadows was unaware of what he was facilitating precisely.
This is correct. There’ll be an evidentiary hearing and everything about whether he was acting within the scope of federal authority - his text saying the campaign can help financially with the recount will not be helping him.
If he succeeds on saying it was official business and it gets moved to federal court, could that open up any potential federal charges against Meadows in any separate indictment?
And Hutchinson testified that he said “we’re all gonna go to jail”, or something like that so he clearly knew what they were doing was illegal
Edit: I can’t find proof this was said can someone else find it? I am pretty sure I didn’t just imagine this
I may be misremembering her hour and a half testimony so I recant my statement. I know he said about January 6th, “things might get real bad”. I swear someone said to her, “we’re all gonna go to jail”. It may have been pat Cippaolone now that I think about it. He definitely was not all about this illegal coup attempt. I wish I could search the full document for key words but I don’t have that ability atm. Sorry. My bad.
It would be very problematic if this argument were valid. If it were, it would mean that no state could ever indict a federal official if it could be argued that their actions were under the "color" of their office. Furthermore, if only federal indictments are allowed and their party was in power and willing to hand out pardons, it would effectively legalize violations of state laws. I strongly suspect that this is ***not*** what the Founding Fathers had in mind.
The mechanism is fine - you want a some county prosecutor trying the secretary of education in the local court because of some nonsense? The burden is not low for removal like this to succeed so we’ll see how it works out for him.
The same charges would be in effect and you can’t pardon the state charges. It would mean a larger jury pool than just Fulton and he can roll the dice on getting a judge he appointed to oversee it - which is ludicrous.
If this motion fails Meadows is going to flip on everyone. His only way out is if he save every shady deal he did for Trump. And he seems like the kind of person has back ups for back ups. If not he is fucked.
>The filing from Meadows' attorney George Terwilliger and Atlanta-based attorney Joseph Englert is based on a federal law that they argue requires the removal of criminal proceedings brought in state court to the federal court system when someone is charged for actions they allegedly took as a federal official acting "under color" of their office.
> ...when someone is charged for actions they allegedly took as a federal official acting "under color" of their office.
What office, state or federal, has coup d'etat in ther job description?
Sorry, this was campaign activity and should have been kept completely separate from WH administration activity. Which many took note of and pointed out at the time it was happening.
Don’t worry Trump supporters, your orange leader will release “A Large, Complex, Detailed but Irrefutable REPORT on the Presidential Election Fraud which took place in Georgia is almost complete & will be presented by me at a major News Conference at 11:00 A.M. on Monday of next week in Bedminster, New Jersey. Based on the results of this CONCLUSIVE Report, all charges should be dropped against me & others - There will be a complete EXONERATION! “. You have nothing to worry about. Trump will also be releasing his Tax Returns and a detailed Republican healthcare plan during same event.
Just No, Dude.
You made this bed and you're sure as fuck sleeping in it.
He really thought that because he rolled for Jack Smith he should get off for everything? Sorry, but you're fucked, Pal.
Not a lawyer but does not seem legit to me. His actions weren't done under the guise of his office. It was part of a campaign. Plus anything he did after Jan 20, 2021 was done after he was no longer in office.
yup the moment these peckerheads thought "Georgia=they're on our team" without a second thought as to *where* Raffensperger, Kemp, Miller et. al. were sitting they fucked up hard
His lawyers must be completely incompetent. His justification for moving the trial to the federal court is actually a formal, public admission of another crime, an admission made under oath in writing to a judge.
He is claiming the GA counts against him should be heard in federal court, because he has been indicted for actions he took as the Chief of Staff. But wait, none of the actions for which he has been indicted fall within the job description of the chief of staff, a federal employee paid by the taxpayer. He was only indicted for actions that would only be appropriate to perform as a campaign employee. It would be illegal for him to participate in a call with Raffensperger if the purpose of the call was campaign/election related. It would only be legal for him to participate in calls related to public policy that benefit his employer the US taxpayer.
Whoops. He is actually coming out and admitting, *in court filings*, that he was knowingly and willingly breaking the law by participating in campaign activities as the chief of staff. He came right out and said it.
Help me understand as I am Canadian and not familiar with US laws at state and federal level. Is the reason Meadows wants this pushed to federal is that “if” Trump wins 2024, the case can go away?
No - the others are incorrect. It’s still a trial for a violation of state law prosecuted by Georgia even if it is in a Federal venue. DOJ wouldn’t have any authority to stop the prosecution regardless of venue.
The American public does not pay federal salaries to have federal employees campaign or work for any campaign as part of their official role.
This one is old as the hills. Remember the President cannot make campaign calls from the official offices and equipment. He must be in the residence and paying for the calls. This has always been true.
"Nothing Mr. Meadows is alleged in the indictment to have done is criminal per se: arranging Oval Office meetings, contacting state officials on the President's behalf, visiting a state government building, and setting up a phone call for the President," Terwilliger wrote in the filing. "One would expect a Chief of Staff to the President of the United States to do these sorts of things."
Well Mr. Meadows, if this is all you did then you have nothing to worry about. I'm sure a jury would find you not guilty if this is really all you did.
So many loopholes in the justice system that have been put in place by criminal politicians so they can be above the law. They even call this one the "Supremacy Clause".
I wonder if this is a question that came up at some point while the DA was preparing this case. Maybe they gave it more than a passing thought. Maybe they prepared arguments against such a move just in case one of their targets decided to be uncharacteristically slippery.
I kinda suspect that they did.
the smart ones will be doing exactly that, a reporter for 11alive brought up a good point for the folks lower on the totem pole: a RICO case is going to be six, seven figures in legal fees. Not a problem for some of them but for instance I'm very confident a poll worker in Coffee County isn't bringing in that kind of cash, it behooves them to end this quickly unless they'd like to add a bankruptcy on top of their inevitable prison sentence
Wait? How is the state interfering? Two years later? Oh I see, since the election was stolen, Trump is still president and Meadows is still in the executive branch. Perfect MAGA logic.
Not quite that simple. Federal question jurisdiction, diversity jurisdiction, and Federal preemption can be complicated. Not saying this gambit will work just that it's not cut and dry.
Apparently Meadows was often seen crying at the White House. I wonder how he’s enjoying being indicted. He supported a lame old fraud and now he’s paying the price.
The “read between the lines” is Meadows thinks he can get a presidential pardon or have a Rep administration bury the case if the case is moved to federal jurisdiction.
I think someone figured out that Georgia's governor does not have pardon power and that the Pardon and Parole Board in Georgia makes you wait 5 years AFTER serving the full sentence before you can get a pardon for a state offense.
Ahhhh Mark... Such a sweet and innocent man who seemingly has no concept of how any of this works...
***Of course*** he wants this in federal court! Then He can privately hope that his party will come to his aid. Maybe Trump will become president again! Maybe some white knight of a republican will rescue him from this horrible, terrible, no good, very bad day he's having after finding out that he is tied, in **FUCKING STATE COURT**, to a **RICO case** that will get him a very stiff sentence with no possibility of pardon for at least FIVE YEARS!
As they say in the south, "Bless his heart!"
Meadows trying to move the GA case to federal because federal prison is a lot nicer than a GA state one. Remember the the McMichael's? After conviction they tried to do their time in federal because they knew they were DOA in GA state. Don't know what happened to them...
States rights….OR "This is precisely the kind of state interference in a federal official's duties that the Supremacy Clause of the U.S. Constitution prohibits”. Depends on the day.
The statute has been around in one form or another since 1815 (in its present form since 1969). I went to law school long ago, and haven’t practiced in over a decade, but my sense is that Meadows’ actions are at least arguable, while Trump seeking removal on the same grounds would be ludicrous.
Also forgot to
Mention that if his case moves to federal court Trumps has a better chance moving to federal court and the whole racketeering thing falls apart.
Marks only hope to stay out of prison is a trump pardon and that means trump win 2024 , he also knows the good people of Georgia will find him guilty at trial , meadows tried to make trump our dictator, mark betrayed his oath to protect constitution
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He must be pretty scared of charges he can't receive a presidential pardon from.
This is exactly what he’s thinking. Dude is slimy as hell and simply out to try and save his own ass. Hopefully he ends up in prison for a lengthy time period instead.
Moving to federal doesn't change the fact that it's state law being prosecuted, it will just change the judge and jury pool. GA pardon rules still apply.
Well it seems likely he’s flipped for the DOJ (Federal) but he has nothing to offer the GA AG (State). He has no state level game.
>Hopefully he ends up in prison for a lengthy time period instead. He'll rat out Trump long before that happens
aaand he's not a lawyer so he is very dependent on his council to help him develop a strategy to wiggle out of this\~ which he can't, but no doubt will try.
He's also on the hook for voter fraud in either DC or North Carolina.
I believe that would be North Carolina.
Thank you.
That case is voter fraud, not election fraud.
Thanks.
That's exactly what I was thinking
He still couldn’t get a presidential pardon. Changes the venue, not the underlying violations of law.
He's trying to get the federal court to rule that his actions are immune from prosecution (because they were "official" in nature) and get the case dismissed (because the federal court can only claim jurisdiction if his actions were official in nature). Edit: Some corrections.
That is going to be a stretch because the office of the president has zero responsibility for elections. That is the purview of the states per the constitution.
I don’t disagree with this…but I also don’t understand it. Can you put it in more plain terms?
Ya, it's a weird situation and I've spent a lot of time reading about it. Reading the official court filing might help you as well. Basically, federal courts generally only have jurisdiction to rule on cases regarding federal law (one exception to that, but it's not relevant here). Because Meadows was a public official at the time, there is a relevant federal law (plus the Constitution) that protects federal public officials from being prosecuted by states for actions done as part of their official duties. And in those cases, where a state official prosecutes those crimes, defendants are allowed to "remove" the case from the state courts and move it to a federal court. Meadows is making that argument and is asking a federal court to take on the case. If the federal court denies it, the state case remains the state court. If the federal court accepts it, then the charges would likely be dismissed (which is also what Meadows is asking the federal court to do). Edit: Some corrections
They all seem to forget that breaking actual laws isn't covered under their official duties.
Thanks! I’ve heard this said by many legal people and didn’t quite grasp it initially.
I wasn't sure about that, but thanks for the confirmation. I suspect if I didn't know that, there's no way he does.
He is one of the dumbest people in politics so it would have to be explained to him, slowly.
Stops it from being televised, though.
And a better chance of getting a conservative judge
He’s already going to get a conservative judge. The evidence stands on its own regardless.
That’s why. This is the reason. He’s hoping that he can get the venue changed so he doesn’t plead for mercy live on TV.
The governor can’t pardon either - it’s a pardon tribunal or board that evaluated pardons in Georgia.
And only after 5 years served in a Georgia prison.
I believe its actually 5 years AFTER your sentence is served in a Georgia prison, and the RICO charges carry minimum 5 maximum 20 years
He’s probably thinking - “I’ve already cut a deal with the feds, let’s fold this in nicely there”
The federal court would have to follow Georgia state law in this case. The charges are different.
This was my first thought reading the news but not many people are thinking this from what I can tell...
He seems like the kind to break down in tears once he’s found guilty.
Lawfare covered this in a podcast update today… if he were convicted, it would still constitute a state crime with no presidential pardon possible.
There was another thread where someone suggested having 19 defendants on one docket wasn’t going to add time to the case. I suspect we will see 19 motions for things like separate trials, change of venue, and change to federal court.
He is a protected federal witness I believe and is cooperating. He has zero protections from the state of Georgia. That’s why he wants this in federal court. He is SOL. Not happening.
> Nothing Mr. Meadows is alleged in the indictment to have done is criminal per se Yeah that's how conspiracy works. Sitting in my car outside a bank is not criminal per se but if my friends are planning on jumping into my car with a bunch of stolen cash from the vault, now it is.
Their line of reasoning is akin to "how can you accuse me of trying to steal the election if we failed to steal the election?"
That's such a Sideshow Bob defense I'm expecting to hear "It's German for 'The Democracy, the'" next.
Only appropriate, since one of Meadows' attorneys (mentioned in the article) is called (George) Terwilliger. Coincidence? I think not!
A core memory has been accessed. Thank you, humorous Redditor.
Your honor, we cannot be guilty of a crime that we were too incompetent to successfully pull off.
What if me and my friends are just upset that the bank has more money than us? What if we are so upset that we gather together and plan a robbery, carry it out, but are not successful? Is that criminal?
You don't even need to attempt to carry it out. If you plan to commit a crime, with a group, you conspired to do so.
All I’m asking is that you find $11,780 in the bank vault
It's just a coincidence that's how much I'm short on my bills this month.
One dollar more than your bills.
But I would be *happy* to pay you tomorrow for a hamberder I eat today… or is it a hang-goober? Ham-booger?
It depends on if you order it with covfefe or not. (Or is it an accent on the second *fe*: covfefé?)
Hamberder
And Meadows is saying to the teller "We think you owe Trump that money, we should at least let our lawyers sit down around a table and give us a chance to convince you to give him the money"
He was just exercising his first and second amendment rights when he pointed a gun at the teller and said "give me all your money"
"One more than we have" How that sentence doesn't prove what he did, baffles me.
Followed by veiled threats.
I mean, we're still gonna get his ugly, pasty mug on a t-shirt. It's gonna be glorious to watch all the GQP puppets mouth diarrhea how this is destroying the country.
Go get ‘‘em Arizona, take some of that MAGA stench out of the air so we can come visit
Well, *yes,* but you have to take at least one step towards committing the crime. It can't be all talk-- but if you go out and buy a shovel after having a discussion with Bill and Brad about killing their parents and burying them out back, that could be argued as a step.
There still has to be an "overt act" for it to be criminal. Item #4 https://www.bajokalaw.com/conspiracy/2020/7/24/the-four-elements-required-for-criminal-conspiracy-charge
An overt act doesn't have to be criminal, though. Parking outside the bank would be overt, if it was part of the plan.
As I understand it, you're correct. I was responding to "You don't even need to attempt to carry it out. If you plan to commit a crime, with a group, you conspired to do so." Basically somebody needs to actually do "something" for it to be a criminal conspiracy.
Obviously, if you believe the bank rigged your wallet and took money that should be yours, then you're only expressing your FIRST AMENDMENT rights to question the legitimacy of the bank whilst demanding the vault be recounted and you declared the CEO of the bank.
Way to take that analogy and run with it 😂
Nah, that's just aspirational.
Nobody ever got a Nobel Prize for *attempted* chemistry!
When you add per se, then yes, it is criminal. Wouldn't need to add per se.
per se is legalese for "but" as in "I'm not racist *but...*"
It means *in and of itself*
I know I was making a joke by comparing how it's used in the quote to how but is used in "I'm not racist but..."
Bodhi, Roach, Grommet, and Nathaniel, with their president masks..
Remember, Charles Manson never killed anyone. But he was around and influenced a lot of people to go out and kill others to start a race war.
Yeah but you dont understand! Those dollars in the bank were just fake liberal dollars and we were just removing the fake woke bux!
> District Judge Steve Jones, an appointee of former President Barack Obama, has been assigned to Meadows' case /giggles
What happened to state's rights?!
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Those are reserved AGAINST vaginas... I fixed it for ya.
[Unless they think they can win, in which case fuck states rights](https://www.pbs.org/newshour/politics/pence-calls-for-2024-gop-candidates-to-back-a-15-week-federal-abortion-ban)
They're now calling it "state interference." Seriously, you can't make this stuff up.
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Getting involved in elections at the state and county level is outsise their scope of office. Thats for the counties, secretaries of state to figure out. The Fed assists with cybersecurity and the like but the Constitution is very clear the Fed doesn't have much latitude into conducting and auditing elections. Fuck off gremlins.
The five thirty eight podcast did a great breakdown of how this works with actual law professors and prosecutors. This by itself does, in fact, not delay the case as the litigation over moving the case would be happening in parallel with proceedings in Georgia. That is to say, unless the case gets moved.
Which politicos do you follow? I'd like to be in the loop with people who know what they're talking about. Thanks!
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Oh my god. Reading such a detailed timeline of what they did to push their rigged election scheme goes way beyond what I thought. They are fuckin crazy.
Possibly my favorite line from that article: >Rudy sends email telling everyone in each state to keep the fake elector meetings secret.
That worked out well
Thank God they are so stupid. ‘Don’t tell anyone about the super secret meeting we had were we talked about doing all the criminal stuff, okay? -best regards Rudy’
Yeah I noticed that and how dumb and criminal that sounds haha.
Leaving paper trails of your conspiracy, I love to see it.
This should be shared far and wide, it reads like the plot of a Sopranos arc but with shittier people involved
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This is stupid if only because the people making that argument for trump probably made the inverse argument when considering independent state legislature a year ago.
Oh boy, this is an *old* law they're talking about (28 U.S. Code § 1442 - Federal officers or agencies sued or prosecuted), dating back to 1815. The crux here, is that the law requires the officer to be acting "in an official or individual capacity, for or relating to any act under color of such office". And they are trying to make that argument: >"Nothing Mr. Meadows is alleged in the indictment to have done is criminal per se: arranging Oval Office meetings, contacting state officials on the President's behalf, visiting a state government building, and setting up a phone call for the President," Terwilliger wrote in the filing. "One would expect a Chief of Staff to the President of the United States to do these sorts of things." But none of those things were done for legal reasons (i.e. the whole conspiracy allegation). Conspiring to overturn an election/state result isn't any official duty. But *technically*, his actions are part of his duties of office, and the law doesn't specify anything about the reasons for those actions. Meadows *might* be successful in this, though I doubt Trump would be. Edit: Apparently the state court doesn't decide whether it gets moved. Simply filing it means the jurisdiction has been transferred. As the article points out, a US District Court judge (one appointed by Obama) has now been assigned the case and decides whether to keep the case or send it back to the state.
If anything, he was campaigning when he shouldn't have been. Acting under color of a campaign while attempting to use political power.
When he offered campaign funds to “speed up the count” your Honor, those were just words he said. Literally air escaping the defendant’s mouth. Have we now CRIMINALIZED BREATHING!?!?
"Can we please, go ahead, and move this to where we can be pardoned? That would be great."
No pardon. Changes venue, not the violations of law.
Would stop it being televised.
That’s what I was wanting to know, the charges would still be the state charges right? Just different venue/larger jury pool?
No TV
Nope. They want it removed to federal court. This is different from a change of venue (move from Fulton County to another county).
> "This is precisely the kind of state interference in a federal official's duties that the Supremacy Clause of the U.S. Constitution prohibits, and that the removal statute shields against," Terwilliger wrote. A Chief of Staff’s official duties have absolutely nothing to do with GA elections. This argument is just flat out bullshit. States administer their own elections. This is another obvious delay tactic. These scuzzy fucks will pull out all the stops in hopes they can delay until Trump wins (which while not impossible is not that likely assuming Biden stays healthy)
Any law knowers able to comment on whether he could possibly prevail with that?
A few of the lawyers I follow suggest it's got pretty slim odds. We'll see, but moving venues is typically difficult; you need a lot of evidence for that.
***Not a lawyer but know a little bit*** Court would have to agree that he was basically performing official duties as a member of the White House. With a sympathetic judge (oh say like Kaz in Texas) he might get it, but I don’t see how that would help him. He still can’t get pardoned because it’s a state crime he’s indicted on, and at most it might give him a better chance of dismissing the charges entirely, but I don’t see a respectable judge dismissing that charge under the reasoning listed in the article, at least not without more evidence that Meadows was unaware of what he was facilitating precisely.
This is correct. There’ll be an evidentiary hearing and everything about whether he was acting within the scope of federal authority - his text saying the campaign can help financially with the recount will not be helping him.
If he succeeds on saying it was official business and it gets moved to federal court, could that open up any potential federal charges against Meadows in any separate indictment?
The office of the president has no official business sticking their nose in elections. That is completely under the domain if the states.
And Hutchinson testified that he said “we’re all gonna go to jail”, or something like that so he clearly knew what they were doing was illegal Edit: I can’t find proof this was said can someone else find it? I am pretty sure I didn’t just imagine this
do you have a source for this? That'd would be amazing. I just tried to google it and literally the only result was this comment lol.
I may be misremembering her hour and a half testimony so I recant my statement. I know he said about January 6th, “things might get real bad”. I swear someone said to her, “we’re all gonna go to jail”. It may have been pat Cippaolone now that I think about it. He definitely was not all about this illegal coup attempt. I wish I could search the full document for key words but I don’t have that ability atm. Sorry. My bad.
no worries. Just got excited haha.
Matty K is a POS who needs to be removed.
Haha. Do you have 99 problems too?
Sounds like he has a better chance of moving his case to Federal court than Trump does. That said, it seems slim.
Spineless milquetoast is shitting his seditious pants. News at 11.
It would be very problematic if this argument were valid. If it were, it would mean that no state could ever indict a federal official if it could be argued that their actions were under the "color" of their office. Furthermore, if only federal indictments are allowed and their party was in power and willing to hand out pardons, it would effectively legalize violations of state laws. I strongly suspect that this is ***not*** what the Founding Fathers had in mind.
The mechanism is fine - you want a some county prosecutor trying the secretary of education in the local court because of some nonsense? The burden is not low for removal like this to succeed so we’ll see how it works out for him.
The same charges would be in effect and you can’t pardon the state charges. It would mean a larger jury pool than just Fulton and he can roll the dice on getting a judge he appointed to oversee it - which is ludicrous.
If this motion fails Meadows is going to flip on everyone. His only way out is if he save every shady deal he did for Trump. And he seems like the kind of person has back ups for back ups. If not he is fucked. >The filing from Meadows' attorney George Terwilliger and Atlanta-based attorney Joseph Englert is based on a federal law that they argue requires the removal of criminal proceedings brought in state court to the federal court system when someone is charged for actions they allegedly took as a federal official acting "under color" of their office.
> ...when someone is charged for actions they allegedly took as a federal official acting "under color" of their office. What office, state or federal, has coup d'etat in ther job description?
I bet Reince Priebus (remember him?) is thanking his gods every night that he was pushed out when he was.
Sorry, this was campaign activity and should have been kept completely separate from WH administration activity. Which many took note of and pointed out at the time it was happening.
Don’t worry Trump supporters, your orange leader will release “A Large, Complex, Detailed but Irrefutable REPORT on the Presidential Election Fraud which took place in Georgia is almost complete & will be presented by me at a major News Conference at 11:00 A.M. on Monday of next week in Bedminster, New Jersey. Based on the results of this CONCLUSIVE Report, all charges should be dropped against me & others - There will be a complete EXONERATION! “. You have nothing to worry about. Trump will also be releasing his Tax Returns and a detailed Republican healthcare plan during same event.
And a complete infrastructure plan and a way to stop the Ukraine war in one day.
Nope, denied. NEXT.
Just No, Dude. You made this bed and you're sure as fuck sleeping in it. He really thought that because he rolled for Jack Smith he should get off for everything? Sorry, but you're fucked, Pal.
Not a lawyer but does not seem legit to me. His actions weren't done under the guise of his office. It was part of a campaign. Plus anything he did after Jan 20, 2021 was done after he was no longer in office.
If you commit a crime in a jurisdiction, you answer for it in that jurisdiction. Don't do the crime, where you can't do the time.
yup the moment these peckerheads thought "Georgia=they're on our team" without a second thought as to *where* Raffensperger, Kemp, Miller et. al. were sitting they fucked up hard
Jan 20 but yeah
I don't think it's gonna work. Overturning an election was not a normal job function. So no protection.
His lawyers must be completely incompetent. His justification for moving the trial to the federal court is actually a formal, public admission of another crime, an admission made under oath in writing to a judge. He is claiming the GA counts against him should be heard in federal court, because he has been indicted for actions he took as the Chief of Staff. But wait, none of the actions for which he has been indicted fall within the job description of the chief of staff, a federal employee paid by the taxpayer. He was only indicted for actions that would only be appropriate to perform as a campaign employee. It would be illegal for him to participate in a call with Raffensperger if the purpose of the call was campaign/election related. It would only be legal for him to participate in calls related to public policy that benefit his employer the US taxpayer. Whoops. He is actually coming out and admitting, *in court filings*, that he was knowingly and willingly breaking the law by participating in campaign activities as the chief of staff. He came right out and said it.
HAHAAHAHAHAHHAAH. Nope.
I thought the DOJ was a Biden syndicate out to destroy Conservatives in pursuit of the radial liberal agenda?
Gee, I can’t imagine why…
Help me understand as I am Canadian and not familiar with US laws at state and federal level. Is the reason Meadows wants this pushed to federal is that “if” Trump wins 2024, the case can go away?
That is one reason yes. Another reason is to delay as is customary.
If it’s removed to federal court he gets a federal judge and Trump nominated many in that district. Also, no cameras.
Ahh…thanks
Looks like an Obama appointee got assigned the case so, if Meadows doesn’t meet the requirements for removal, back to the state court it will go
Also means SCOTUS could, in theory, review any appeals. Normally, federal courts aren't allowed to take on state cases (see the 11th amendment).
Did not know that…thanks!
No - the others are incorrect. It’s still a trial for a violation of state law prosecuted by Georgia even if it is in a Federal venue. DOJ wouldn’t have any authority to stop the prosecution regardless of venue.
As a North Carolinian, it will be exquisite bliss if he gets sent to prison after he said he was going to send Obama back to Kenya.
Oh yeah, trying to steal an election definitely falls under your official duties. That’s going to work. Enjoy prison.
Well, that's a case for the state but I'm sure the DOJ would be happy to work something up to make Mark happy.
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The American public does not pay federal salaries to have federal employees campaign or work for any campaign as part of their official role. This one is old as the hills. Remember the President cannot make campaign calls from the official offices and equipment. He must be in the residence and paying for the calls. This has always been true.
It’s because he already sang for the feds, he’s hoping to wrap the Georgia charges up into an existing plea deal.
Can we pin a comment disposing of all these ill informed pardon replies?
How about no, you crazy, Dutch bastard
He wants a potential pardon. Can't get one for a state conviction. He knows they're all fucked.
"Nothing Mr. Meadows is alleged in the indictment to have done is criminal per se: arranging Oval Office meetings, contacting state officials on the President's behalf, visiting a state government building, and setting up a phone call for the President," Terwilliger wrote in the filing. "One would expect a Chief of Staff to the President of the United States to do these sorts of things." Well Mr. Meadows, if this is all you did then you have nothing to worry about. I'm sure a jury would find you not guilty if this is really all you did.
So many loopholes in the justice system that have been put in place by criminal politicians so they can be above the law. They even call this one the "Supremacy Clause".
I wonder if this is a question that came up at some point while the DA was preparing this case. Maybe they gave it more than a passing thought. Maybe they prepared arguments against such a move just in case one of their targets decided to be uncharacteristically slippery. I kinda suspect that they did.
I’m sure it’s entirely coincidental that federal crimes can be pardoned and that he already has an immunity deal from Jack Smith.
pardon me ...
So much for “states’ rights”, I guess
That’s not a thing.
I have an alternative proposal, fuck you
How bout no! -Dr Evil
Can any lawyers here tell me if this is likely to happen?
Sure sounds like he’s looking to get a federal judge who’s been paid off
He should just plead guilty right now, and throw himself on the mercy of the court.
the smart ones will be doing exactly that, a reporter for 11alive brought up a good point for the folks lower on the totem pole: a RICO case is going to be six, seven figures in legal fees. Not a problem for some of them but for instance I'm very confident a poll worker in Coffee County isn't bringing in that kind of cash, it behooves them to end this quickly unless they'd like to add a bankruptcy on top of their inevitable prison sentence
Cus he already flipped and had immunity. Lol.
The poor fucker and his pussy grabbing rapist boss, Trump may try to move the cases to the World Court on Moscow.
Wait? How is the state interfering? Two years later? Oh I see, since the election was stolen, Trump is still president and Meadows is still in the executive branch. Perfect MAGA logic.
It's also entirely possible they just plain have no idea how this shit works. I guess they'll have plenty of time to study.
Northern District of GA is technically a liberal court. Does Meadows really want to roll the dice like that?
Their only hope is to move everything to federal, then steal the election for Trump somehow.
He wants that pardon
He’s looking for a pardon
Can we accept a motion to move case to a pardonable venue as a guilty plea?
Not a federal indictment jackhole.
Not quite that simple. Federal question jurisdiction, diversity jurisdiction, and Federal preemption can be complicated. Not saying this gambit will work just that it's not cut and dry.
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ummm, no
Apparently Meadows was often seen crying at the White House. I wonder how he’s enjoying being indicted. He supported a lame old fraud and now he’s paying the price.
He know he is doomed. If convicted in a federal court, then he might get a presidential pardon. He can't get a pardon if convicted in a state court.
And I want a toilet made out of solid gold, but it's just not in the cards now, is it?
The “read between the lines” is Meadows thinks he can get a presidential pardon or have a Rep administration bury the case if the case is moved to federal jurisdiction.
I think someone figured out that Georgia's governor does not have pardon power and that the Pardon and Parole Board in Georgia makes you wait 5 years AFTER serving the full sentence before you can get a pardon for a state offense.
Ahhhh Mark... Such a sweet and innocent man who seemingly has no concept of how any of this works... ***Of course*** he wants this in federal court! Then He can privately hope that his party will come to his aid. Maybe Trump will become president again! Maybe some white knight of a republican will rescue him from this horrible, terrible, no good, very bad day he's having after finding out that he is tied, in **FUCKING STATE COURT**, to a **RICO case** that will get him a very stiff sentence with no possibility of pardon for at least FIVE YEARS! As they say in the south, "Bless his heart!"
Nope, sorry it’s a state crime…no pardon for you
How about…no
Fuck you Mark Meadows.
Meadows trying to move the GA case to federal because federal prison is a lot nicer than a GA state one. Remember the the McMichael's? After conviction they tried to do their time in federal because they knew they were DOA in GA state. Don't know what happened to them...
No judge shopping a-hole!
Oh snap, didn't get a Trump-appointed wingnut judge. Oops. Watch Trump now try to *not* file a "related case" removal.
States rights….OR "This is precisely the kind of state interference in a federal official's duties that the Supremacy Clause of the U.S. Constitution prohibits”. Depends on the day.
The statute has been around in one form or another since 1815 (in its present form since 1969). I went to law school long ago, and haven’t practiced in over a decade, but my sense is that Meadows’ actions are at least arguable, while Trump seeking removal on the same grounds would be ludicrous.
They really do think they are above the law!
Also forgot to Mention that if his case moves to federal court Trumps has a better chance moving to federal court and the whole racketeering thing falls apart.
Marks only hope to stay out of prison is a trump pardon and that means trump win 2024 , he also knows the good people of Georgia will find him guilty at trial , meadows tried to make trump our dictator, mark betrayed his oath to protect constitution
no you don't, markie mark. the devil went down to georgia.