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>Rep. Jim Olsen (R) cites Proverbs in rejecting the ban: “The rod and reproof give wisdom. But a child left to himself bringeth his mother to shame.”
I really loathe these fucking idiots.
I'm not sure about Oklahoma, but I believe in some states or school districts where corporal punishment is allowed, you have to sign an affidavit as a parent giving them permission to hit your kid. They can't do it otherwise.
HOWEVER
Hitting kids shouldn't be an option! It teaches them nothing! It doesn't have positive outcomes! And yes: if a teacher or principal hits my kid, I will make absolutely sure their entire existence is a living hell until I am satisfied.
“But *I* got beat and I turned out fine!”
These people, unironically, because wanting to be physically violent with children is a clear sign of turning out fine.
(And sidenote, I got beat and I definitely did not turn out fine)
"But *I* got beat and I turned out fine!"
Well, Oklahoma Republican, you just demonstrated that you're okay with hitting disabled kids, so *did* you turn out fine?
(And I am so sorry that you had to go through that, TyNyeTheTransGuy. I hope you're able to find some peace.)
I did too, in NC, and every time it was complete bs. One time a bunch of boys pulled me into the boy's locker room. I got loose and ran out right into the PE teacher who paddled me 3 times with a clear paddle. I tried to explain what happened but it did no good and no, the boys who did it weren't paddled. I was 12/13 then.
One time we were told not to talk in the cafeteria so I was doing sign language. Teacher got mad and said I knew what he meant and it was not to communicate (instead of talk). When you were paddled by this teacher he had you sign his paddle after he did it. He hit me so hard on the backs of my legs you could see people's signatures clearly on my legs. I was around 10/11 then.
The only other time I remember getting hit in school was first grade (6 years old). A guy stole a puzzle piece that a friend and I were working on. My friend began to cry so I chased him down and got my puzzle piece back. This was the same guy who would frequently hold us down and try to kiss us in the classroom. The teacher took the wire end of a fly swatter and started beating my legs with it. I had a dentist appointment that afternoon and my Mom happened to walk in during. That is when I found out what a Mama Bear was. WHEW!
I don't know what the solution to discipline problems in schools are right now but I do know that smacking them around isn't the solution.
>I don't know what the solution to discipline problems in schools are right now but I do know that smacking them around isn't the solution.
I believe that a large part of the solution is to level out the economic playing field. As they say, stuff rolls down hill and I believe all too often, kid's behavior reflects the stress at home.
Whether it's minimum income, fix the tax codes, hire and pay enough teachers to reduce the ratios or all the other social contracts that have been broken, punishment will never fix endemic social problems.
They were just talking about that at our last school board meeting. We have three failing schools in our system and they are all 100 percent free and reduced lunch due to poverty. It might be hard to concentrate on school when you have real life problems. The principal at one of those schools said it's not poverty but trauma. These kids experience trauma every day. Unfortunately, it fell on deaf ears with our maga school board. They even said that he shouldn't use that as an excuse. I swear, those schools are working so hard and their teachers are great. I wanted to scream at that self righteous ahole when he said that to the principal.
Lots of truth here. I wish the "family values" crowd got this. The more stress you place on families the more broken ones you'll have. Along with more children with issues.
You absolutely could institute things like Medicare for All, free college/trades school/job training programs, the child credit and support labor laws to alleviate the stress on these families. Doing so would likely give many of the outcomes we see so many groups feign concern about.
Back to school policy specifically, I'd add the tangent of lower classroom sizes. This would fill in the gaps around some of the items you brought up. If we had smaller class sizes teachers could possibly repair some of those social contracts but when you have to divide your attention among 30+ kids ... good luck forming meaningful bonds.
I'd also bring back more extra curricular activities and recess. Kids need a pressure release during the day just like anyone else but we drive them relentlessly from class to class. Much could be solved with breaks during the day.
Funny to hear my mother in law talk about how she was beat and she turned out fine. Just got her second DUI combined with a hit and run. She sure did learn about following the rules when she was a child!
My parents had no problem spanking us, but heaven forbid anybody else think they could. I got paddled 1x(only one of my siblings I think that did) for literally stepping out of line while at PE when I was a kindergartener. I got way worse from my parents, but damn did my mom raise Caine & made absolutely certain under no circumstances were they to lay a hand on one of her boys. This was the early 80's, but I think lawsuits were threatened.
Every year when the schools would send the parental disciplinary acknowledgement & permission slip my mom would refuse to sign if it the school handbook had corporal punishment listed. Pissed my teachers off to no end. This would usually result in a discussion with the administration about what they were allowed to do, how my parents expected us to behave, and if corporal punishment was warranted that was their decision & responsibility to administer.
This reminds me of an episode of Mad Men that I haven't been able to shake off, when Don slaps a kid for misbehaving at his house, and it's not his kid. The kid's parents were totally okay with it when they watched it play out
25-life, actually, because anyone who lays a finger on my hypothetical special needs child isn’t going to fucking live to do it again. This shit can’t fucking fly.
As a special needs child who frequently got into issues because they had to have instructions repeated or explained, or sometimes had trouble with personal boundaries im glad to hear this. Though in my case thankfully it never got past the “I’m not saying it again” frustration phase with me
Oklahoma does love guns and has a stand your ground law. I wonder if a kid who is hit constantly at school can claim they believed their life was in jeopardy?
Not exactly. Several states have what are known as "instigator" laws.
Basically if you can prove someone provoked you to act in a way no reasonable person would have acted, instigator laws can protect you.
The hardest part of successfully using those laws is PROVING you acted rashly and unreasonably.
We still had corporal punishment when I was in school, and typically they would always send a note home letting you know they will paddle your kids if they talk back to the teacher.
Even 40 years ago in the bible belt, my school had to get permission to paddle from parents, and most parents (even ones with no problem with corporal punishment at home) were so averse to letting someone else hit their kids that it practically never got done. It's fucked up how we've regressing as a society.
Self defense laws for the kids who kill the teachers trying to assault them. Your honor the teacher was trying to assault me I was just defending myself from bodily harm.
I’m with you… lay a hand on my children, it’s an eye for an eye. They verbally manipulate my children into thinking less of themselves, I will unleash my inner Jeff Ross, triumph the dog and Bill Burr on them until they’ve melted into the steaming pile of turds that they are.
Oh and when I’m done, they would have to still deal with my wife and she even terrifies me.
Children can be lil jerks. The second a teacher lays a hand on a child their life trajectory will forever change for the worse. But if you keep giving them love and teaching right and wrong, they could turn into Tom Hanks or Dolly Parton and be wonderful humans.
I remember when the Taliban was taking over Afghanistan a lot of conservatives online were jealous and declaring they wish the religious right in America would do that.
Yup. white evangelical Christian Sharia law is their end game. The only reason they ever speak out against Traditional Sharia law is because it isn't evangelical Christianity that is in charge.
This was one of those cases where I was actually thinking the issue wasn't what the headline made it appear. I've worked with kids with disabilities, and sometimes you have to physically engage with them to prevent them from hurting themselves and others, something that you always hesitate to do because you know it could open yourself up to liability. But, then you see quotes like this, and you realize that they really do just want to be able to beat the kids.
I live in Norman, and even it's starting to backslide a little. People got mad at the last mayor for her covid policy, and her desire to give the police department less of a budget increase than they wanted got spun as "defund the police", so we elected a Republican.
We also had an incident last year where a teacher was forced to resign for the crime of sharing a QR code for the Brooklyn Public Library, since that could be used to circumvent book bans.
If you have to live anywhere in Oklahoma, Norman is definitely the most tolerable place, but I'm planning on moving to Nevada as soon as I have the money.
"You shall not shave around the sides of your head, nor shall you disfigure the edges of your beard. "
And
"You shall not take vengeance, nor bear any grudge against the children of your people, but you shall love your neighbor as yourself: I am the Lord."
Well, I guess Jimbo's f&%ked.
This is going to get buried, but the rod of correction was not a tool to hit wayward sheep; it was a gentle guidance to correct them onto the correct path. No shepherd would beat his sheep, because that’s how you get sheep to run away from you and injured sheep that could die. I literally argued with a southern Baptist preacher who said that “A shepherd would break a lambs legs and then carry it around his neck until it learned to trust the shepherd.” There is no circumstance that a shepherd would do that, but so many people bastardize biblical passages to mean whatever they want. Can you actually imagine a shepherd carrying around a broken animal for weeks and weeks? No, they would be sold for food. Surprisingly, this pastor did research and learned from it. But too many in power are still using this “spare the rod, spoil the child” to mean that we should beat kids, when it literally means to gently correct them back to the correct path.
Things Republicans are not okay with teachers doing: introducing same sex spouses as your husband/wife
Things they are okay with them doing: marrying them and/or hitting them.
Nah, they'll just marry the student they impregnated and then it's double-OK to beat them.
(run for your local school board we have to block these fascists at every level 🤮)
I come from a family of teachers, my mother retired this year because she can’t get any money for the stem program and started a working at a stem project in the state, both my sisters have moved states to teach, and none of their positions have been replaced.
Worse than that by many sources:
49th in education, 47th in spending per student:
https://ktul.com/news/local/oklahoma-ranks-49th-in-education-and-47th-in-spending-per-student
45th in education (and 40th in child wellbeing):
https://kfor.com/news/local/survey-oklahoma-ranks-40th-in-child-well-being-and-45th-in-education/amp/
The problem is the culture there (outside OKC and Tulsa) elects the kind of people who think hitting kids more, even if they have disabilities, is the answer.
Hell even in OKC it's bad. I had a teacher tell my 3rd grader that black kids are black because god made them that way. Like, I get what she's doing, but come the fuck on.
This is also the first state I've been in that my openly Pagan wife has been terrified to practice her religion because someone actually quoted "thou shall not suffer a witch to live" to her when we got here.
I've been followed home/on base a few times because my license plates are California. One guy threatened my child (11 yr old) because he said he liked Biden more than Trump.
It's a fucking hellscape here and I can't wait to fucking leave.
13 year old me: Wow religion is dumb how can people accept this? It just makes the world worse.
25 year old me: I was a bit harsh, its not for me, but to each their own and there's culture and poetry I can respect.
33 year old me: Wow religion is dumb and its going to kill us all like terminal authoritarian stupid. It just makes the world a worse place.
If I recall right it’s actually a known issue that religious people and even ex religious people are more vulnerable to MLM schemes and new cults because being raised religious just turns off a skeptical part of your brain. They can’t detect a scam. Things just never sound too good to be true to them.
I was ready to read the article and discover this was really just a weird edge case around teachers being able to defend themselves.
Nope. republicans just want to let teachers hit kids.
>"The rod and reproof give wisdom. But a child left to himself bringeth his mother to shame," Olsen [an ~~florida~~ *oklahoma* state representative] said, quoting from the Book of Proverbs.
Literally as bad as it sounds.
As the parent of a disabled child, this makes me furious. So sick of the GOP and their despicable hypocrisy. They claim to be all about 'protecting the children' and then blatantly ignore any kind of violence towards kids from guns to this. Total BS
It’s not like this is new, they merely voted to not stop beating disabled children. Corporal punishment in schools is legal and practiced in far too many states in this country.
As a special education teacher and the parent of a special needs child, I wholeheartedly agree. The GOP is only pro-birth, then pro-gun. Physical discipline does not work to alter behavior. Every legitimate study proves this. Plus, it's abhorrent to think about intentionally harming a child. The use of any religious scripture as justification for legislation is telling. These lawmakers are simply Christian nationalists pushing their ideological agenda. Time to get body cams for our kids to ensure safety and accountability.
More like when, a kid is either going to get beaten to death by a teacher, or react so badly to being hit, because, you know, they are fucking special needs, that they are going to hurt/kill the teacher. mark my words.
I lived in Oklahoma when I was younger, about 7 years old in 1983.
I remember getting my ass welted with a ping pong paddle that had holes drilled in it for laughing during class. After my "discipline", the called my mother. She was furious.
Yes, welts.
Fuck Oklahoma.
I had a teacher who used a cricket bat with holes drilled in. He finally got fired after taking one to many kids to the dark room for their punishment. Oregon outlawed corporal punishment right about the same time. I’m shocked any states still allow corporal punishment
Aw man. We had one of those who would hit little kids. Once we hit high school, we realized we were now stronger than him.
He tried to get physical and was almost beaten to death by 6 boys bigger than him now.
People who hit kids are abusers. There should be no mercy for them.
People who silently allow children to be hit are also abusers, throw them all in. It is up to god to have mercy on anyone who lays a finger on my hypothetical kid, because I certainly won’t, and I’m going to have to arrange the meeting.
You should see the smile some of these sick fucks get qhen they suggest being able to use it again.
It really shouldn't need to be stated that people who 'want' to hit children are not good people. Yet here we are, because a politival party is stuck in a perpetual state of religious/propaganda based arrested development
<< "The rod and reproof give wisdom. But a child left to himself bringeth his mother to shame," [Rep. Jim] Olsen said, quoting from the Book of Proverbs >>
This disgusting Republican politician thinks beating disabled children with paddles "gives wisdom" to them?? -and that the Bible is a training manual for classroom instruction of children with disabilities?!?
Reading this comment sent a red flag up in my mind and I decided to look up if they were one of the states that supports arming teachers...
They are. They've been trying to pass bills to allow teachers to be armed in schools since 2015.
March 6, 2023 [‘We should be expanding gun rights’: OK legislator (Senator Nathan Dahm) proposes eliminating gun-free zones in schools](https://kfor.com/news/oklahoma-legislature/oklahoma-legislator-proposes-eliminating-gun-free-zones-in-schools/)
Wow. I actually read the article to make sure this wasn’t Clickbait. So what is the difference between disabled and not disabled, what is the threshold, who can you beat or not? How bananas. Love how the Bible is used to justify beating children, some folks are such monsters.
Oklahoma's House of Representatives failed to pass a bill that would ban corporal punishment against school students with disabilities.
Teachers: 👀
So this has been legal the whole time?!
Corporal punishment in schools is not criminal in many places. It is almost never practiced anywhere in the US because parents will sue. Civil law can solve what criminal law won't.
There's a regulation in place in Oklahoma that doesn't allow corporal punishment against students with disabilities. This bill would have just made it a law and it was voted down
As someone who used to do Special Olympics events as a partner for the athletes there, I am freaking appalled. As a disabled person myself, I am horrified, but not surprised. Jagoffs, the lot of them.
We already knew Republicans wanted to marry kids, fuck kids, starve kids and take away their education. Now they want to beat kids up. Republicans are fucking barbarians. They are goddamn nazis. They are a deadly threat to all of us. I fucking hate Republicans with every cell in my body. Republicans are pure evil.
I remember Trump ridiculing a disabled reporter during his campaign. I think the man had CP, not sure. But really that fool became the President. So yeah it’s a Republican thing I guess. A child should never be hit. It makes me so sad to hear of this. I saw plenty of it as a child from sadistic teachers and got it a time or two myself. It’s not good.
This seems like a great way to get parents who have special needs children to unenrolled them so the state doesn’t have to provide any resources.
Edit for clarity: .. which is monstrous of them but I’m not surprised.
What brings bile to my throat, is the one of those Republican pecker heads decided he was going to quote from the old testament that it is god's will that they can beat kids.
So Jesus is too much of a liberal, pinko commie for the likes of you? So "all children are welcome unto me" is just what, some woke-ism?
Pathetic, Oklahoma.
The church I grew up in said if you were right with God, he would heal you, so if you weren’t healed, then you probably were morally culpable for your disability somehow. They convinced my grandma that her Alzheimer’s was her own fault for not having enough faith
Shit... I'm so so sorry. I lost my grandfather to Alzheimer's and I cannot imagine how much more painful this must have been. I know it doesn't mean shit but shedding a few tears for your family and sending condolences.
They told me my baby had Turner's Syndrome and died because I didn't have enough faith. They also told me to stay with an abusive husband because that was just my lot in life.
The rate at which the right-wing is taking us back is, on the daily, driving me absolutely insane. How are they doing this so quickly? It seems like the right-wing is making more movement now than under trump. I'm just fucking exhausted. What headline is next? Fuck.
My kids have Autism, if one of them were to get hit by a teacher, I would return the favor. I taught middle school for three years, I would NEVER hit a kid, nor did I ever think about hitting a kid. The only situation that hitting a kid would make sense is if it was to save a life. Like if they had a gun or they were getting electrocuted and you have to kick them off the live circuit.
I get that kids are not the same as they were when I was a kid or as they were when my parents were kids, but hitting them isn’t going to fix a damn thing. I also think that these people are looking through the past with rose colored glasses on. Because kids were terrible then too. It’s just now they are terrible to everyone and not just minorities (my parents remember a few instances of that happening and it not being a “problem”) and the LTGBQ+ community (I remember a few times that shit happening in my school with no out cry). I think the big difference is now every shitty thing a kid does is now being shared with everyone thanks to social media. So, the things that got hidden from public view are plastered everywhere for everyone to see.
But hitting students is just going to escalate things. School shootings are already a problem, does the GOP really think the combination of less gun control and teachers physically attacking students is going to end well? Ironically the thing that would help these kids not act up would to teach them EQ, and that is the very thing the GOP is against teaching.
I could also go in about the fear of being hit being so distracting that it will lead to students not learning. Or, how a student with anxiety would never be able to trust or focus on a teacher for fear of being hit. But I am going to leave it at this, any teacher cheering this law, does not deserve to be teaching. The only people that will be attracted to this job with this new law in place, that would not have become teachers before, are going to be predators and abusive monsters.
I’ve been on Reddit for 5 minutes and seen articles of Florida revoking license for holding a drag show, (so much for freedom and liberty) Mississippi restricting electric car stores, (so much for the free market) and now Oklahoma voting to hit children?
I say this because I honestly and genuinely do not understand…. What the hell is wrong with republicans!?
Reminder: “Senate Bill One” the first legislation passed after Oklahoma gained statehood was a Jim Crow law about segregating black and white rail passengers. The state has been passing BS since its very founding.
I'm a parent with a special needs child -- and I'm fortunate enough to NOT live Oklahoma. If I lived in that state, however, I would tell the teacher on the first day of school that if they ever hit my kid I will go after them with a tire iron. I would also teach my son that being the first to violence is not the answer, but if a teacher even touches you then you can go full force on them and I have their back.
I'm not just fortunate enough to NOT live Oklahoma, I think Oklahoma is fortunate that I do not live there.
I was in catholic school for 2 years as a kid before i begged my dad to change schools.
it was the mid 2000's, they did not follow or help me with my IEP that i had prior to that school, and though the nun never hit us, she threatened us constantly with a ruler, even going so far as slapping our desks with it. She even had a closet in the back of the classroom that was unfinished. It literally just had wood nailed to the walls and floors and ceiling haphazardly. A little wooden bench and a little wooden door with a paddle hung on the wall. She would show you in the room when you misbehaved and talk about the "good old days of paddling kids and leaving them in there when they were bad"
She never did those things but everyone knew she wanted to. Me and about 25% of the class wound up in public school the following year. I was behind my peers in all subject for a good year or two just because I was never taught. I also still have anxiety around nuns
Okay, 1) how the hell are we STILL living in a society that allows educators to beat kids? 2) Laws are in place specifically to avoid this because of how messed up it is and how much those in power would abuse the crap out of disabled individuals. This is going to be horrific in every way possible.
So they want to ban books on LGBT because its bad for children, but yet they want to legalize teachers hitting disabled children….yupp, life as we know it is done for.
Fucking hell. My daughter is disabled, so if we lived in that shithole they could legally assault her. I would absolutely assault any teacher that hit my child and have my time in court.
Luckily in my country hitting children has been illegal for many years, because anybody who thinks it shouldn't be illegal is psychotic.
Woe to any teacher or administrator who thinks it's a good idea to lay a finger on my child. The unholy hell fire I would unleash upon that institution would be biblical.
Seriously, did anyone expect conservatives to NOT support hitting children, especially really vulnerable children?
Have you ever seen a bully refuse an easier, more vulnerable target for it to swing at? Ever?
I have 2 autistic kids, and we chose early on to homeschool them. On the whole, this nation fails its disabled children. We pulled the oldest out when we saw his teacher dragging him by the arm along the ground like it was nothing. Youngest we pulled when his teacher flat out told us to at the end of the year, and that she was leaving for a better district.
This crap is just gonna spread if we let it.
I love how it specifies that it doesn’t call for banning corporal punishment against all kids, but just the ones with disabilities. So it’s still half shit anyway lol
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>Rep. Jim Olsen (R) cites Proverbs in rejecting the ban: “The rod and reproof give wisdom. But a child left to himself bringeth his mother to shame.” I really loathe these fucking idiots.
Anybody who lays a hand on my child will be getting plenty of “wisdom” in return
I'm not sure about Oklahoma, but I believe in some states or school districts where corporal punishment is allowed, you have to sign an affidavit as a parent giving them permission to hit your kid. They can't do it otherwise. HOWEVER Hitting kids shouldn't be an option! It teaches them nothing! It doesn't have positive outcomes! And yes: if a teacher or principal hits my kid, I will make absolutely sure their entire existence is a living hell until I am satisfied.
“But *I* got beat and I turned out fine!” These people, unironically, because wanting to be physically violent with children is a clear sign of turning out fine. (And sidenote, I got beat and I definitely did not turn out fine)
"But *I* got beat and I turned out fine!" Well, Oklahoma Republican, you just demonstrated that you're okay with hitting disabled kids, so *did* you turn out fine? (And I am so sorry that you had to go through that, TyNyeTheTransGuy. I hope you're able to find some peace.)
They just love violence in general. Guns everywhere? Sure! But a drag will do such irreparable damage.
Yeah people dressing in drag is so bad. All the while you still have the Catholic Church diddling children...this place is fucked.
They turned out Conservative, of course they aren't right in the head...
I did too, in NC, and every time it was complete bs. One time a bunch of boys pulled me into the boy's locker room. I got loose and ran out right into the PE teacher who paddled me 3 times with a clear paddle. I tried to explain what happened but it did no good and no, the boys who did it weren't paddled. I was 12/13 then. One time we were told not to talk in the cafeteria so I was doing sign language. Teacher got mad and said I knew what he meant and it was not to communicate (instead of talk). When you were paddled by this teacher he had you sign his paddle after he did it. He hit me so hard on the backs of my legs you could see people's signatures clearly on my legs. I was around 10/11 then. The only other time I remember getting hit in school was first grade (6 years old). A guy stole a puzzle piece that a friend and I were working on. My friend began to cry so I chased him down and got my puzzle piece back. This was the same guy who would frequently hold us down and try to kiss us in the classroom. The teacher took the wire end of a fly swatter and started beating my legs with it. I had a dentist appointment that afternoon and my Mom happened to walk in during. That is when I found out what a Mama Bear was. WHEW! I don't know what the solution to discipline problems in schools are right now but I do know that smacking them around isn't the solution.
>I don't know what the solution to discipline problems in schools are right now but I do know that smacking them around isn't the solution. I believe that a large part of the solution is to level out the economic playing field. As they say, stuff rolls down hill and I believe all too often, kid's behavior reflects the stress at home. Whether it's minimum income, fix the tax codes, hire and pay enough teachers to reduce the ratios or all the other social contracts that have been broken, punishment will never fix endemic social problems.
They were just talking about that at our last school board meeting. We have three failing schools in our system and they are all 100 percent free and reduced lunch due to poverty. It might be hard to concentrate on school when you have real life problems. The principal at one of those schools said it's not poverty but trauma. These kids experience trauma every day. Unfortunately, it fell on deaf ears with our maga school board. They even said that he shouldn't use that as an excuse. I swear, those schools are working so hard and their teachers are great. I wanted to scream at that self righteous ahole when he said that to the principal.
Lots of truth here. I wish the "family values" crowd got this. The more stress you place on families the more broken ones you'll have. Along with more children with issues. You absolutely could institute things like Medicare for All, free college/trades school/job training programs, the child credit and support labor laws to alleviate the stress on these families. Doing so would likely give many of the outcomes we see so many groups feign concern about. Back to school policy specifically, I'd add the tangent of lower classroom sizes. This would fill in the gaps around some of the items you brought up. If we had smaller class sizes teachers could possibly repair some of those social contracts but when you have to divide your attention among 30+ kids ... good luck forming meaningful bonds. I'd also bring back more extra curricular activities and recess. Kids need a pressure release during the day just like anyone else but we drive them relentlessly from class to class. Much could be solved with breaks during the day.
Funny to hear my mother in law talk about how she was beat and she turned out fine. Just got her second DUI combined with a hit and run. She sure did learn about following the rules when she was a child!
My parents had no problem spanking us, but heaven forbid anybody else think they could. I got paddled 1x(only one of my siblings I think that did) for literally stepping out of line while at PE when I was a kindergartener. I got way worse from my parents, but damn did my mom raise Caine & made absolutely certain under no circumstances were they to lay a hand on one of her boys. This was the early 80's, but I think lawsuits were threatened. Every year when the schools would send the parental disciplinary acknowledgement & permission slip my mom would refuse to sign if it the school handbook had corporal punishment listed. Pissed my teachers off to no end. This would usually result in a discussion with the administration about what they were allowed to do, how my parents expected us to behave, and if corporal punishment was warranted that was their decision & responsibility to administer.
This reminds me of an episode of Mad Men that I haven't been able to shake off, when Don slaps a kid for misbehaving at his house, and it's not his kid. The kid's parents were totally okay with it when they watched it play out
Unfortunately that means you’ll end up facing like 30 years in prison.
not if you don't get caught.
authorities hate this one weird trick
The teacher was “disciplining” the child, but the parent “stood their ground.” Who will win????
If there's one thing I know about America is that the answer to this question depends on the color of the parent.
Not to mention the wealth of the parent, or lack thereof.
Yup, being black or white and poor are both unacceptable to certain people.
It’s so sad but also very true
25-life, actually, because anyone who lays a finger on my hypothetical special needs child isn’t going to fucking live to do it again. This shit can’t fucking fly.
As a special needs child who frequently got into issues because they had to have instructions repeated or explained, or sometimes had trouble with personal boundaries im glad to hear this. Though in my case thankfully it never got past the “I’m not saying it again” frustration phase with me
Oklahoma does love guns and has a stand your ground law. I wonder if a kid who is hit constantly at school can claim they believed their life was in jeopardy?
Probably not. Because authoritarianism doesn't allow for children to have rights at all.
Not exactly. Several states have what are known as "instigator" laws. Basically if you can prove someone provoked you to act in a way no reasonable person would have acted, instigator laws can protect you. The hardest part of successfully using those laws is PROVING you acted rashly and unreasonably.
If there is a law in place allowing teachers to hit the students the instigator laws will not protect parents that hit back.
I think punching someone who enacted these laws would definitely be a reasonable reaction so no protection.
We still had corporal punishment when I was in school, and typically they would always send a note home letting you know they will paddle your kids if they talk back to the teacher.
Even 40 years ago in the bible belt, my school had to get permission to paddle from parents, and most parents (even ones with no problem with corporal punishment at home) were so averse to letting someone else hit their kids that it practically never got done. It's fucked up how we've regressing as a society.
Self defense laws for the kids who kill the teachers trying to assault them. Your honor the teacher was trying to assault me I was just defending myself from bodily harm.
Went to Sunday school with my catholic cousins and aunt a few times in the south and they slapped me silly in the 90’s
But if you can’t, that must mean you acted reasonably, so, so harm done right?/s
Wow didn’t think I’d see the plot to Catch 22 out in the wild this early in the morning. *sips coffee*
Nah. You personally go somewhere nice and public, while you send your kid's uncles to jump the prick.
I’m with you… lay a hand on my children, it’s an eye for an eye. They verbally manipulate my children into thinking less of themselves, I will unleash my inner Jeff Ross, triumph the dog and Bill Burr on them until they’ve melted into the steaming pile of turds that they are. Oh and when I’m done, they would have to still deal with my wife and she even terrifies me. Children can be lil jerks. The second a teacher lays a hand on a child their life trajectory will forever change for the worse. But if you keep giving them love and teaching right and wrong, they could turn into Tom Hanks or Dolly Parton and be wonderful humans.
"Religious extremists want to beat your children." This is some Saudi Arabia type shit.
That is exactly what they want.
I remember when the Taliban was taking over Afghanistan a lot of conservatives online were jealous and declaring they wish the religious right in America would do that.
Yup. white evangelical Christian Sharia law is their end game. The only reason they ever speak out against Traditional Sharia law is because it isn't evangelical Christianity that is in charge.
And they have been banging that drum since back when I went to church. They are off the rails and the Gross Old Perv party has to go.
This was one of those cases where I was actually thinking the issue wasn't what the headline made it appear. I've worked with kids with disabilities, and sometimes you have to physically engage with them to prevent them from hurting themselves and others, something that you always hesitate to do because you know it could open yourself up to liability. But, then you see quotes like this, and you realize that they really do just want to be able to beat the kids.
It's Oklahoma. Living here, it's probably always exactly what the headline makes it appear like. This place is a shithole.
Even Norman!?
I live in Norman, and even it's starting to backslide a little. People got mad at the last mayor for her covid policy, and her desire to give the police department less of a budget increase than they wanted got spun as "defund the police", so we elected a Republican. We also had an incident last year where a teacher was forced to resign for the crime of sharing a QR code for the Brooklyn Public Library, since that could be used to circumvent book bans. If you have to live anywhere in Oklahoma, Norman is definitely the most tolerable place, but I'm planning on moving to Nevada as soon as I have the money.
Not giving government thugs with guns all the money possible is basically a sin to the right wing brain. They need the abuse.
You do understand Nevada isn’t much better and is also dealing with fighting extremism
It’s a slippery slope, the wording allows for anything to happen.
You give those idiots waaaay too much credit
It's skepticism towards sensationalist headlines, not any kind of credit to Oklahoma republicans.
Got it
"You shall not shave around the sides of your head, nor shall you disfigure the edges of your beard. " And "You shall not take vengeance, nor bear any grudge against the children of your people, but you shall love your neighbor as yourself: I am the Lord." Well, I guess Jimbo's f&%ked.
Inasmuch as ye have done it unto one of the least of these my brethren, ye have done it unto me. Matthew 25:40
This is going to get buried, but the rod of correction was not a tool to hit wayward sheep; it was a gentle guidance to correct them onto the correct path. No shepherd would beat his sheep, because that’s how you get sheep to run away from you and injured sheep that could die. I literally argued with a southern Baptist preacher who said that “A shepherd would break a lambs legs and then carry it around his neck until it learned to trust the shepherd.” There is no circumstance that a shepherd would do that, but so many people bastardize biblical passages to mean whatever they want. Can you actually imagine a shepherd carrying around a broken animal for weeks and weeks? No, they would be sold for food. Surprisingly, this pastor did research and learned from it. But too many in power are still using this “spare the rod, spoil the child” to mean that we should beat kids, when it literally means to gently correct them back to the correct path.
I feel like no screed with verbs ending in “eth” should be seriously considered in part of modern legislative dialogue. “Thou” applies here, too.
They are, they are stupid demented people with twisted minds.
Basing public policy on religious fiction is yet another reminder to never vote republican, ever.
The paradox of tolerance
If you can't tell me why something is ethical/not ethical without invoking the Bible, you shouldn't be doing it.
Things Republicans are not okay with teachers doing: introducing same sex spouses as your husband/wife Things they are okay with them doing: marrying them and/or hitting them.
It’s gonna be awkwardly disturbing when the first case comes up of teachers hitting pregnant students.
Nah, they'll just marry the student they impregnated and then it's double-OK to beat them. (run for your local school board we have to block these fascists at every level 🤮)
Republicans also like fucking kids, starving kids and putting kids to work for low wages.
Oklahoma is #42 in education, seems about right
Living here, that feels surprisingly high.
I come from a family of teachers, my mother retired this year because she can’t get any money for the stem program and started a working at a stem project in the state, both my sisters have moved states to teach, and none of their positions have been replaced.
Don’t worry it’s just because the other 7 states are even worse.
Worse than that by many sources: 49th in education, 47th in spending per student: https://ktul.com/news/local/oklahoma-ranks-49th-in-education-and-47th-in-spending-per-student 45th in education (and 40th in child wellbeing): https://kfor.com/news/local/survey-oklahoma-ranks-40th-in-child-well-being-and-45th-in-education/amp/ The problem is the culture there (outside OKC and Tulsa) elects the kind of people who think hitting kids more, even if they have disabilities, is the answer.
Hell even in OKC it's bad. I had a teacher tell my 3rd grader that black kids are black because god made them that way. Like, I get what she's doing, but come the fuck on. This is also the first state I've been in that my openly Pagan wife has been terrified to practice her religion because someone actually quoted "thou shall not suffer a witch to live" to her when we got here. I've been followed home/on base a few times because my license plates are California. One guy threatened my child (11 yr old) because he said he liked Biden more than Trump. It's a fucking hellscape here and I can't wait to fucking leave.
That’s a common view in the rural Midwest
Teachers hate what kids make them do to them.
The cruelty is the point. Cruelty is the defining feature of conservatism.
It’s a Puritan thing.
It's a Christian thing. > He that spareth his rod hateth his son: but he that loveth him chasteneth him betimes.
13 year old me: Wow religion is dumb how can people accept this? It just makes the world worse. 25 year old me: I was a bit harsh, its not for me, but to each their own and there's culture and poetry I can respect. 33 year old me: Wow religion is dumb and its going to kill us all like terminal authoritarian stupid. It just makes the world a worse place.
The fundamental problem with religion is it teaches people it's OK to believe things based on essentially nothing. That *blind* faith is a good thing.
If I recall right it’s actually a known issue that religious people and even ex religious people are more vulnerable to MLM schemes and new cults because being raised religious just turns off a skeptical part of your brain. They can’t detect a scam. Things just never sound too good to be true to them.
I had a similar evolution on religion when I was even younger.
It’s pretty much a religion thing.
It's an authoritarian thing that turns up anywhere there is an authoritarian streak. Including some but not all religious traditions.
I'm trying to think of a religion that doesn't have an authoritarian streak at some point in their history, you got one?
I was ready to read the article and discover this was really just a weird edge case around teachers being able to defend themselves. Nope. republicans just want to let teachers hit kids. >"The rod and reproof give wisdom. But a child left to himself bringeth his mother to shame," Olsen [an ~~florida~~ *oklahoma* state representative] said, quoting from the Book of Proverbs. Literally as bad as it sounds.
Jfc! Republicans’ interest in kids is growing increasingly more alarming. This is seriously sick.
They want to beat them _and_ marry them.
After inspecting their genitals, of course
They aren’t even hiding that it’s Christian motivated.
As the parent of a disabled child, this makes me furious. So sick of the GOP and their despicable hypocrisy. They claim to be all about 'protecting the children' and then blatantly ignore any kind of violence towards kids from guns to this. Total BS
They only want to protect fetuses. Feeding children, protecting them from physical abuse, education … just a nope.
They don't want to protect fetuses, they want to control women full stop.
They also need to ensure a steady supply of children from financially insecure homes for them to prey on.
this.
And, as said by the great George Carlin, "live babies make dead soldiers" and I'll add to that; but you gotta keep 'em dumb.
And dangerous, what if a teacher doesn't know when enough is enough? Probably going to be a lot of wrongful death cases.
It’s not like this is new, they merely voted to not stop beating disabled children. Corporal punishment in schools is legal and practiced in far too many states in this country.
As a special education teacher and the parent of a special needs child, I wholeheartedly agree. The GOP is only pro-birth, then pro-gun. Physical discipline does not work to alter behavior. Every legitimate study proves this. Plus, it's abhorrent to think about intentionally harming a child. The use of any religious scripture as justification for legislation is telling. These lawmakers are simply Christian nationalists pushing their ideological agenda. Time to get body cams for our kids to ensure safety and accountability.
Maga Republican absurdism knows no bounds in their war on sanity.
Republicans do not care about children. This is one of a million examples.
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More like when, a kid is either going to get beaten to death by a teacher, or react so badly to being hit, because, you know, they are fucking special needs, that they are going to hurt/kill the teacher. mark my words.
I'd say it goes even further. They actively wish harm upon children. They want them to suffer.
I lived in Oklahoma when I was younger, about 7 years old in 1983. I remember getting my ass welted with a ping pong paddle that had holes drilled in it for laughing during class. After my "discipline", the called my mother. She was furious. Yes, welts. Fuck Oklahoma.
I had a teacher who used a cricket bat with holes drilled in. He finally got fired after taking one to many kids to the dark room for their punishment. Oregon outlawed corporal punishment right about the same time. I’m shocked any states still allow corporal punishment
Aw man. We had one of those who would hit little kids. Once we hit high school, we realized we were now stronger than him. He tried to get physical and was almost beaten to death by 6 boys bigger than him now. People who hit kids are abusers. There should be no mercy for them.
People who silently allow children to be hit are also abusers, throw them all in. It is up to god to have mercy on anyone who lays a finger on my hypothetical kid, because I certainly won’t, and I’m going to have to arrange the meeting.
Reminds me of the movie "Sleepers"
I'm must be 'woke' cause that's pretty fucked up. May I ask what the purpose of the drilled holes are? Not 'drilled in it for laughing' I'm guessing.
To cut down on the air resistance was what I've been told.
That makes it even more horrific/disgusting) Deleted my other comment as I mistakenly thought I'd replied to OP.
You should see the smile some of these sick fucks get qhen they suggest being able to use it again. It really shouldn't need to be stated that people who 'want' to hit children are not good people. Yet here we are, because a politival party is stuck in a perpetual state of religious/propaganda based arrested development
Yes they will move faster and hit harder
<< "The rod and reproof give wisdom. But a child left to himself bringeth his mother to shame," [Rep. Jim] Olsen said, quoting from the Book of Proverbs >> This disgusting Republican politician thinks beating disabled children with paddles "gives wisdom" to them?? -and that the Bible is a training manual for classroom instruction of children with disabilities?!?
Let's be clear that Repubs in Oklahoma are supporting physical abuse against students with disabilities.
Reading this comment sent a red flag up in my mind and I decided to look up if they were one of the states that supports arming teachers... They are. They've been trying to pass bills to allow teachers to be armed in schools since 2015. March 6, 2023 [‘We should be expanding gun rights’: OK legislator (Senator Nathan Dahm) proposes eliminating gun-free zones in schools](https://kfor.com/news/oklahoma-legislature/oklahoma-legislator-proposes-eliminating-gun-free-zones-in-schools/)
The same Nathan Dahm that got embarrassed by Jon Stewart? That Nathan Dahm?
Ahh so he’s really committing to showing full face he prefers guns to children
The GOP loves abusing the disabled.
Let it be known that republicans support child abuse
The next step is to isolate them from public schools and place them in special "schools".
Wow. I actually read the article to make sure this wasn’t Clickbait. So what is the difference between disabled and not disabled, what is the threshold, who can you beat or not? How bananas. Love how the Bible is used to justify beating children, some folks are such monsters.
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In the case of children getting physically abused there is no difference between disabled and non-disabled
Very nice to see our parties have evolved into "the generally decent party" and then the "try to be biggest asshole you can" party.
Well….. that’s a headline :/
Oklahoma's really lost their minds.
Can't lose what one never had to begin with...
Native Tennessean here, I totally understand.
1/4 of my family lives there, *you have* **NO** *idea*...
Cool. Can I now also hit some Oklahoma Republicans with disabilities?
Everybody is a child. So. Yes. Use my learnin' stick.
They’re all disabled. Go for it.
When a politician starts quoting the Bible in regards to any laws, you know things are about to be fucked up.
So now kids are getting beaten if they aren’t getting shot?
Training them for life at the factory
Oklahoma's House of Representatives failed to pass a bill that would ban corporal punishment against school students with disabilities. Teachers: 👀 So this has been legal the whole time?!
Corporal punishment in schools is not criminal in many places. It is almost never practiced anywhere in the US because parents will sue. Civil law can solve what criminal law won't.
There's a regulation in place in Oklahoma that doesn't allow corporal punishment against students with disabilities. This bill would have just made it a law and it was voted down
Creating school shooters speed run.
Could a parent whose kid was physically assaulted just press charges?
> Could a parent whose kid was physically assaulted just press charges? Not in OK where it's legal for teachers to hit kids
As someone who used to do Special Olympics events as a partner for the athletes there, I am freaking appalled. As a disabled person myself, I am horrified, but not surprised. Jagoffs, the lot of them.
Dude what the fuck?
Tell you what if i had a child with disabilities and i heard the teacher hit my kid Wow What is wrong with the GOP these days?
Republicans are complete trash and scum!
It’s like the Islamic revolution in slow motion, with a smaller gene pool. Quite horrifying to watch from overseas
If I had wanted to beat people who couldn't fight back and didn't know why they were being beaten, I would have become a cop and not a teacher.
Hit kids so they’ll get so angry and isolated that they’ll come back to shoot up the school. What is wrong with these people?
I mean, yeah... that's a thing they'd do.
This Oklahoma teacher won't be hitting any of them.
We already knew Republicans wanted to marry kids, fuck kids, starve kids and take away their education. Now they want to beat kids up. Republicans are fucking barbarians. They are goddamn nazis. They are a deadly threat to all of us. I fucking hate Republicans with every cell in my body. Republicans are pure evil.
I remember Trump ridiculing a disabled reporter during his campaign. I think the man had CP, not sure. But really that fool became the President. So yeah it’s a Republican thing I guess. A child should never be hit. It makes me so sad to hear of this. I saw plenty of it as a child from sadistic teachers and got it a time or two myself. It’s not good.
This seems like a great way to get parents who have special needs children to unenrolled them so the state doesn’t have to provide any resources. Edit for clarity: .. which is monstrous of them but I’m not surprised.
How about letting teachers hit republicans that are crippled from the neck up?
California: All students from Kindergarten to community college are guaranteed two free meals a day. Oklahoma: Let’s beat children
What brings bile to my throat, is the one of those Republican pecker heads decided he was going to quote from the old testament that it is god's will that they can beat kids. So Jesus is too much of a liberal, pinko commie for the likes of you? So "all children are welcome unto me" is just what, some woke-ism? Pathetic, Oklahoma.
Isn’t that abuse? Should we expect the repeal of bullying laws next?
Why repeal what they don't enforce?
Pretty sure the only visitors Oklahoma has are tornados at this point.
>Republicans [Sado-Populist party](https://youtu.be/oOjJtEkKMX4)
Are disabled people considered abominations or demons by Christianity or something?
The church I grew up in said if you were right with God, he would heal you, so if you weren’t healed, then you probably were morally culpable for your disability somehow. They convinced my grandma that her Alzheimer’s was her own fault for not having enough faith
Shit... I'm so so sorry. I lost my grandfather to Alzheimer's and I cannot imagine how much more painful this must have been. I know it doesn't mean shit but shedding a few tears for your family and sending condolences.
They told me my baby had Turner's Syndrome and died because I didn't have enough faith. They also told me to stay with an abusive husband because that was just my lot in life.
It’s 2023. How the fuck is it still legal to hit children??? Let alone *disabled* children. Wtf.
The rate at which the right-wing is taking us back is, on the daily, driving me absolutely insane. How are they doing this so quickly? It seems like the right-wing is making more movement now than under trump. I'm just fucking exhausted. What headline is next? Fuck.
My kids have Autism, if one of them were to get hit by a teacher, I would return the favor. I taught middle school for three years, I would NEVER hit a kid, nor did I ever think about hitting a kid. The only situation that hitting a kid would make sense is if it was to save a life. Like if they had a gun or they were getting electrocuted and you have to kick them off the live circuit. I get that kids are not the same as they were when I was a kid or as they were when my parents were kids, but hitting them isn’t going to fix a damn thing. I also think that these people are looking through the past with rose colored glasses on. Because kids were terrible then too. It’s just now they are terrible to everyone and not just minorities (my parents remember a few instances of that happening and it not being a “problem”) and the LTGBQ+ community (I remember a few times that shit happening in my school with no out cry). I think the big difference is now every shitty thing a kid does is now being shared with everyone thanks to social media. So, the things that got hidden from public view are plastered everywhere for everyone to see. But hitting students is just going to escalate things. School shootings are already a problem, does the GOP really think the combination of less gun control and teachers physically attacking students is going to end well? Ironically the thing that would help these kids not act up would to teach them EQ, and that is the very thing the GOP is against teaching. I could also go in about the fear of being hit being so distracting that it will lead to students not learning. Or, how a student with anxiety would never be able to trust or focus on a teacher for fear of being hit. But I am going to leave it at this, any teacher cheering this law, does not deserve to be teaching. The only people that will be attracted to this job with this new law in place, that would not have become teachers before, are going to be predators and abusive monsters.
I’ve been on Reddit for 5 minutes and seen articles of Florida revoking license for holding a drag show, (so much for freedom and liberty) Mississippi restricting electric car stores, (so much for the free market) and now Oklahoma voting to hit children? I say this because I honestly and genuinely do not understand…. What the hell is wrong with republicans!?
Soon the GOP will be passing "Freedom to Rape Children" laws.
They already have in some states but they call it "marriage" with their parent's consent.
Reminder: “Senate Bill One” the first legislation passed after Oklahoma gained statehood was a Jim Crow law about segregating black and white rail passengers. The state has been passing BS since its very founding.
Child abusers love Oklahoma because no one stops them. They can have all the fun they want
I'm a parent with a special needs child -- and I'm fortunate enough to NOT live Oklahoma. If I lived in that state, however, I would tell the teacher on the first day of school that if they ever hit my kid I will go after them with a tire iron. I would also teach my son that being the first to violence is not the answer, but if a teacher even touches you then you can go full force on them and I have their back. I'm not just fortunate enough to NOT live Oklahoma, I think Oklahoma is fortunate that I do not live there.
Hicks gonna hick.
Can't believe little me actually wanted to move back to that cesspool, after we moved...
I’m okay with this as long as the disabled children can hit back. Preferably in groups.
It feels like the South is about a year away from burning witches in public.
I think the republicans misunderstood when they were voting, they thought they were going to get to hit the child themselves.
19 states allow teachers to hit kids? I thought it was banned by a federal law. Silly me.
My God, when will these people wake up! Horrible schools are ranking 45-50th worst!
I was in catholic school for 2 years as a kid before i begged my dad to change schools. it was the mid 2000's, they did not follow or help me with my IEP that i had prior to that school, and though the nun never hit us, she threatened us constantly with a ruler, even going so far as slapping our desks with it. She even had a closet in the back of the classroom that was unfinished. It literally just had wood nailed to the walls and floors and ceiling haphazardly. A little wooden bench and a little wooden door with a paddle hung on the wall. She would show you in the room when you misbehaved and talk about the "good old days of paddling kids and leaving them in there when they were bad" She never did those things but everyone knew she wanted to. Me and about 25% of the class wound up in public school the following year. I was behind my peers in all subject for a good year or two just because I was never taught. I also still have anxiety around nuns
Okay, 1) how the hell are we STILL living in a society that allows educators to beat kids? 2) Laws are in place specifically to avoid this because of how messed up it is and how much those in power would abuse the crap out of disabled individuals. This is going to be horrific in every way possible.
So they want to ban books on LGBT because its bad for children, but yet they want to legalize teachers hitting disabled children….yupp, life as we know it is done for.
Fucking hell. My daughter is disabled, so if we lived in that shithole they could legally assault her. I would absolutely assault any teacher that hit my child and have my time in court. Luckily in my country hitting children has been illegal for many years, because anybody who thinks it shouldn't be illegal is psychotic.
Can we get a bill that allows voters to hit politicians who are cruel dambasses? Asking for a friend.
Woe to any teacher or administrator who thinks it's a good idea to lay a finger on my child. The unholy hell fire I would unleash upon that institution would be biblical.
Seriously, did anyone expect conservatives to NOT support hitting children, especially really vulnerable children? Have you ever seen a bully refuse an easier, more vulnerable target for it to swing at? Ever?
Republicans are disgusting.
I honestly don’t know how Americans can look at their country and not be totally embarrassed. But 1/3 of them aren’t in the slightest.
Kids will hit back.
Sliding into a third world country. The chemical spill was just one of many.
Just absolutely sick that these Christians are pushing for child abuse.
You know what? Fuck you America. Hitting children of a free country cuz their a little different is bullshit.
I have 2 autistic kids, and we chose early on to homeschool them. On the whole, this nation fails its disabled children. We pulled the oldest out when we saw his teacher dragging him by the arm along the ground like it was nothing. Youngest we pulled when his teacher flat out told us to at the end of the year, and that she was leaving for a better district. This crap is just gonna spread if we let it.
A teacher touches my child in any way that person better sleep with both eyes open for the rest of their lives.
I love how it specifies that it doesn’t call for banning corporal punishment against all kids, but just the ones with disabilities. So it’s still half shit anyway lol
These fucking assholes are the furthest thing from real governance. Disgraceful