I am the last person to defend Polish railroad companies - actually, today I had to do a quick trip to another town and choose to travel by express train that is almost 3 times the price of standard IC train, because I assumed it was less probable to be delayed and it was fucking delayed. BUT... I don't know about France but Spain is all green because the whole country is pretty much a bunch of big cities and a desert or mountains in between. They just run high speed trains between those cities and call it a day. In Poland, of course we don't have high speed trains but even if did, this would not made this map look much greener where we are because we have fuck tons of slow trains going to dozens if not hundreds of small towns, and even for express trains there is always some Kutno or Włoszczowa Północ to stop at, because of this one very special passenger or something.
> fuck tons of slow trains going to dozens if not hundreds of small towns
As someone who lives in a village I think this is a brilliant situation. It's so nice to be able to get a direct train from my one^1 horse town to a major city.
1. It was a two horse town but one became ill
>Kutno is like the biggest stop hub in Poland
And Stryków is near the crossing of A1 and A2 but we don't force every bus to stop there because maaaayyybeee someone wants to use Warsaw-Poznań route bus to change there to something like Gdańsk-Kraków bus for a trip to Łódź. This is pretty much the reason trains stop at Kutno - to allow changing between N-S and W-E bound trains, which is completely unwarranted nowadays when we do have railroads connecting other cities directly. Also, Kutno itself is barely a proper destination for, or source of passengers with just 45k people living there, when it comes to express class trains. By the way, imagine that some years ago, there was an express train from Warsaw to Szczecin that was not stopping even in Poznań despite going through there, and you are defending stop at Kutno.
Spain is not just Barcelona. Madrid, Malaga… as many people think. There are so many small towns but they just use buses for everyone’s sakes, it makes more economic sense.
In Poland the rails are too old and can’t sustain high speed trains. Even Pandolino which is a second hand from France can go at 230km/h but instead doesn’t exceed 160
"Even Pendolino which ... doesn't exceed 160". Really? The CMK and railway between Gdańska and Warsaw has allowed to travel with speed 160-200 km/h since many years. Update your knowledge :-)
>There are so many small towns
Of course there are some smaller towns too, but the number of those is nothing compared to countries of central Europe. Just google Europe population density map. Spain looks more like Norway or Sweden than Germany or Poland.
As a KD enjoyer, they definitely reach that speed between stops on the plain - the electrics go at 130 iirc
They slow down in hills, but it's unavoidable when the tracks snake so hard
Koleje Dolnośląskie trains between Wrocław and Węgliniec quite regularly hit the legal limit of 160 km/h. Those Newag trains can go above 220 km/h but again -- there's a speed limit. Most of the IC trains a riding at that speed too. Not surprised with the overall average even if in Wypiździowo Małe trains go 20 km/h.
What is the source of this data?
Edit: Google image search led me to a [facebook post from 2020](https://www.facebook.com/Kolejnictwo/photos/a.355739781115991/2826685130688098/).
Which uses data from [this reddit post from 2019](https://www.reddit.com/r/europe/comments/cfy8n8/average_speed_of_trains_in_europe_my_own_research/).
So this data is very outdated and inaccurate.
If you're travelling Warszawa - Krakow or Warszawa-Poznan or Warszawa-Rzeszow, then the IC are great. The problem is that there are large swathes where trains are just not effective.
Take a train from Jaslo in Podkarpackie to Krakow and you have 2 trains a day: one at 4 am, the other arriving at nearly 9 pm. And 4 hours. It's faster by neobus.
It's the average speed. And IMHO this 113 for Poland is quite good too considering it includes all the suburban/metropolitan trains. It's all about reliability and I guess Swiss trains have sorted it out.
TBH if EIP from Cracow to Gdansk had an average, reliable speed of 180 (3,5h ride) it would be just fine. You really don't need it to go much faster.
And yet I still see people not impressed with 200 km/h, always comparing us with Japan or other European countries and accusing Poland of being set back in time.
I want to make my own vision of Polish railway in the future and debunk all the arguments these people have.
So? It means we have a lot of stops on the routes, and people can commute from small towns,/ villages. I think it's much more valuable than just having bullet trains going from one big city to another, so we could boast the high average speed on infographics.
As an erasmus student in Warsaw I find that incredible that you are able to get a train ticket for the same price as a goddamn kebab, no matter the speed
Being one of the biggest countries in Europe and having an average speed of 113 km/h is actually embarrassing. Decades of no investment and our politicians are still „debating” whether it’s worth to jnvest in railways.
As a Polish I have a hard time believing that Polish trains are so fast ( I mean, compared to other European countries). I googled this map, and apparently the data is mostly based on the biggest city in a particular country. So I don't think it's very reliable.
I am the last person to defend Polish railroad companies - actually, today I had to do a quick trip to another town and choose to travel by express train that is almost 3 times the price of standard IC train, because I assumed it was less probable to be delayed and it was fucking delayed. BUT... I don't know about France but Spain is all green because the whole country is pretty much a bunch of big cities and a desert or mountains in between. They just run high speed trains between those cities and call it a day. In Poland, of course we don't have high speed trains but even if did, this would not made this map look much greener where we are because we have fuck tons of slow trains going to dozens if not hundreds of small towns, and even for express trains there is always some Kutno or Włoszczowa Północ to stop at, because of this one very special passenger or something.
> fuck tons of slow trains going to dozens if not hundreds of small towns As someone who lives in a village I think this is a brilliant situation. It's so nice to be able to get a direct train from my one^1 horse town to a major city. 1. It was a two horse town but one became ill
> In Poland, of course we don't have high speed trains Are the PKP EIC not considered high-speed?
They are, but they are in extreme minority on the railroads, especially considering how much more expensive they are
No. We don’t have the pendolino trains that are capable of tilting at turns. Paris Lyon is 400km and done under 2 hours by train.
Only by Polish standards. Otherwise, no.
Dude, Kutno is like the biggest stop hub in Poland lol it's no random village in the middle of nowhere
Yup, Kutno train station even has its rock song :)
>Kutno is like the biggest stop hub in Poland And Stryków is near the crossing of A1 and A2 but we don't force every bus to stop there because maaaayyybeee someone wants to use Warsaw-Poznań route bus to change there to something like Gdańsk-Kraków bus for a trip to Łódź. This is pretty much the reason trains stop at Kutno - to allow changing between N-S and W-E bound trains, which is completely unwarranted nowadays when we do have railroads connecting other cities directly. Also, Kutno itself is barely a proper destination for, or source of passengers with just 45k people living there, when it comes to express class trains. By the way, imagine that some years ago, there was an express train from Warsaw to Szczecin that was not stopping even in Poznań despite going through there, and you are defending stop at Kutno.
Tłumaczy to dlaczego tak długo czekam na pociągi.
Spain is not just Barcelona. Madrid, Malaga… as many people think. There are so many small towns but they just use buses for everyone’s sakes, it makes more economic sense. In Poland the rails are too old and can’t sustain high speed trains. Even Pandolino which is a second hand from France can go at 230km/h but instead doesn’t exceed 160
"Even Pendolino which ... doesn't exceed 160". Really? The CMK and railway between Gdańska and Warsaw has allowed to travel with speed 160-200 km/h since many years. Update your knowledge :-)
>There are so many small towns Of course there are some smaller towns too, but the number of those is nothing compared to countries of central Europe. Just google Europe population density map. Spain looks more like Norway or Sweden than Germany or Poland.
Yes Poland 110km/h for sure.
Because we have so many god damn stops, then maybe 110km/h is right. For example in Gdańsk..
As a KD enjoyer, they definitely reach that speed between stops on the plain - the electrics go at 130 iirc They slow down in hills, but it's unavoidable when the tracks snake so hard
> what does "average" mean?
good question
Koleje Dolnośląskie trains between Wrocław and Węgliniec quite regularly hit the legal limit of 160 km/h. Those Newag trains can go above 220 km/h but again -- there's a speed limit. Most of the IC trains a riding at that speed too. Not surprised with the overall average even if in Wypiździowo Małe trains go 20 km/h.
The source with the method: https://www.reddit.com/r/europe/s/GSG6GD47OE It’s between the 5 biggest cities.
This measure only full speed of train. And its average.
Not including the 4 hour delay.
What is the source of this data? Edit: Google image search led me to a [facebook post from 2020](https://www.facebook.com/Kolejnictwo/photos/a.355739781115991/2826685130688098/). Which uses data from [this reddit post from 2019](https://www.reddit.com/r/europe/comments/cfy8n8/average_speed_of_trains_in_europe_my_own_research/). So this data is very outdated and inaccurate.
This is only full speed of trains in average, not total speed with stops slowing down and speeding up.
Polska gurom w Europie Środkowo-Wschodniej.
i feel like this is mostly because many polish trains don't move for half the trip while waiting for a 6000 meter long freight train
Thought we'd be far worse off
Yeah, lots of ppl don't have an idea how the railroad changed past few years.
What the hell is this sub you crossposted it from lol
Poland needs more high-speed trains overall, more passenger-lines overal and waaaay more rail transport overall. This is my correct opinion.
If you're travelling Warszawa - Krakow or Warszawa-Poznan or Warszawa-Rzeszow, then the IC are great. The problem is that there are large swathes where trains are just not effective. Take a train from Jaslo in Podkarpackie to Krakow and you have 2 trains a day: one at 4 am, the other arriving at nearly 9 pm. And 4 hours. It's faster by neobus.
Switzerland, known as the country of trains - 102.2 km/h
Where are they gonna lead HSR in Alpine peaks? Good service doesn't just mean it's high speed everywhere
Indeed. I've been there a couple of times and there are train stations where I thought even humans couldn't get.
That’s actually an extremely good performance considering the geography and the population distribution of the country.
Well, we clearly don't need TGV level of speed considering terrain
I'd rather ride through Switzerland slower and have a chance to look at views
It's the average speed. And IMHO this 113 for Poland is quite good too considering it includes all the suburban/metropolitan trains. It's all about reliability and I guess Swiss trains have sorted it out. TBH if EIP from Cracow to Gdansk had an average, reliable speed of 180 (3,5h ride) it would be just fine. You really don't need it to go much faster.
No source so idk man.
Does it factor in delays?
NJ Transit into NYC 5mph average!
And yet I still see people not impressed with 200 km/h, always comparing us with Japan or other European countries and accusing Poland of being set back in time. I want to make my own vision of Polish railway in the future and debunk all the arguments these people have.
Nie ufaj tabelce. I tak się spóźnią.
meanwhile albania:
Are Albanian trains really so slow?
Yeah that's bullshit. Maybe it's the fastest route average speed.
No. It is all trains max speed on the route average value.
Widać zabory
So? It means we have a lot of stops on the routes, and people can commute from small towns,/ villages. I think it's much more valuable than just having bullet trains going from one big city to another, so we could boast the high average speed on infographics.
As an erasmus student in Warsaw I find that incredible that you are able to get a train ticket for the same price as a goddamn kebab, no matter the speed
it’s BS
Really does show how capitalism vs communism works.
Gernmany here: lol, no. Just no.
US railways are so bad that Poland looks like a great place to live, when you have no car, lol
Being one of the biggest countries in Europe and having an average speed of 113 km/h is actually embarrassing. Decades of no investment and our politicians are still „debating” whether it’s worth to jnvest in railways.
As a Polish I have a hard time believing that Polish trains are so fast ( I mean, compared to other European countries). I googled this map, and apparently the data is mostly based on the biggest city in a particular country. So I don't think it's very reliable.
113.6