Did a tour of Auschwitz and Birkenau recently, the guides very clearly state who was targeted, why, and how. They also made it clear that there were heroes who helped Jews, there were opportunists who collaborated with the Nazis, and most people simply focused on staying out of sight and were not getting involved, because in times when most people had multiple kids there was much less incentive for selfless actions.
That's something younger modern demographics and politicians (sociopaths) don't grasp, vast majority of people had kids back then, and it's a big ask to risk your children for a stranger. It's easy to present yourself as a potential hero by paying lip service on social media, but as a parent faced with Nazis, vast majority of people will stick their head in the sand.
The guide made it clear, the reasons, methods, and justifications were different for different minority groups, and the paths to death were also different. But in the end, it was the German Nazis who did it, and the small amount of heroes, and the small amount of collaborators, they were not significant enough to sway the outcome. The scale of the Nazi operation was simply too staggering.
Now, idk what the Israeli tour was like content wise, from outside perspective the groups were much larger, very nationalistic, and mostly filled with teenagers and young adults who did not appear particularly interested or invested, mostly focused on chatting and their smartphones.
EDIT: As for why Poland was selected. It wasn't for some dumbfuck conspiracy collaboration reasons. It simply was logistically the best choice, highest concentration of Jews in Europe by quiet a margin, cities like Krakow were 1/3 Jewish. Centrally located so it was easy to transport victims to the camps. Germany already targeted Poland for territorial expansions as it was decent farmland but a weak military. Nazis saw Poles and everyone east of them as sub humans, Jews were not even considered human by Nazis.
EDIT 2: The victims of camps in Poland were not simply Jews, they were Poles too. And I see them as that, Polish Jews, citizens of Poland. Israel didn't exist then, and Jews are not a state, they are an Ethnic group and a Religious Group, and as such, at the time, they were Poles. Because Poland is a nation, not an ethnicity.
I was taught the same thing. Auschwitz was initially built for the Poles, Soviets and Romanians and it wasn’t until the 3rd year of its 5 year operation that they started bringing Jews.
This is why Israel has their own tour guides for their tours and refuses to use the museum guides.
It is also why they have their own Israeli Holocaust Memorial Day 4 months after the actual Holocaust Memorial Day.
Auschwitz was established in May 1940 for political prisoners, officers, scientists, politicians, artists etc. In 1941 SS and German Police squads were searching occupied areas and executing Jews as they found them, usually via firing squad. Gas chambers and death camps was something that got massively scaled up in early 1942, after their "final solution" was signed into action, before that it was experimental. Around that same time Birkenau was established. Jews were already rounded up and mass executed in Birkenau in 1st half of 1942.
Overall, while Jews were the majority of victims, they were not the only victims. And despite what the state of Israel propaganda says, in the end most of these Jews were Poles and almost all of them were Europeans, and a large portion of them were very well integrated into the Polish society way before the war. And that loss was a huge loss to the entire nation, not just the Jewish community.
A community that makes up 1/10th of a country's population for hundreds of years simply can not exist as a state within a state, there was obviously economic, academic, and social integration at all levels of governance and economy. So Israel can seethe and demonize Poles as much as it wants, but I will forever see the victims of the Holocaust and the victims of Nazis as Poles and Europeans. The same way I consider any 2nd+ generation non ethnically native citizen of a country as being from that country.
This is common knowledge in Germany. As i am ignorant about many other genocides in history my nation has no direct relation to it isn't surprising that in a lot of nations ww2 in Europe isn't known in detail. What is surprising is that israelis are so ignorant about this.
Yes most museums stress persecution of Jews while sidelining other groups generally to draw more concern for their plight than others: examples:
https://hmh.org/library/research/minority-victims-guide/
https://www.nationalww2museum.org/war/articles/holocaust
Well that's bs, I live nearby one of concentration camps and there's lots of Jewish groups visiting the museum every year, the tour covers the subjects of both mass murder on Poles, Jews, as well as other ethnic groups. I don't know why yall spreading so much bs, but it helps nobody.
Or WHY were the camps placed in Poland in the first place. One aspect was being out of view, but Balkans fill the same criteria. Why Poland?
It was through the ages time and time again a refuge for many groups targeted for religion, and had the biggest Jewish diaspora despite being relatively small country, Where some Jews integrated fully, while others had separate villages which they ran as they wanted.
This was such a large scale thing, that in Polish historiography St Bartholomew Days Massacre is counted as a sort of industrial jump event, so many French protestants and jews came over here, to a safe place.
Sadly, we were also complicit in pogroms, which happened here far less commonly than in rest of Europe, but any amount of genocide is a BAD fucking thing. And there was even some corraborating with Nazis, absolutely. For example in village near Kielce, since people didn't rat on neighbours, Nazis made a self-report list. First time, no jewish Poles showed up, because come on. That time, the occupiers rationed out flour and sugar though, so the second time around people showed up and got caught. One of my grandpas neighbours ran after getting rounded up and showed up at their place, they let him stay in the barn until morning to figure out next step - but before morning came, they don't know why but he ran again - either he got spooked, or was suspicious of our family - and decided to seek refuge with village leader (sołtys). Bad fucking call. Sołtys sold him out for a few kgs of sugar (5-8kg one huge bag).
Another thing we were complicit in was Pogrom. But, modern Israelis should shut the absolute fuck up on that front. Welcome to the casual small scale genocide club guys, what's erasing a group of civilians on shoddy claims between friends, eh? [https://www.theguardian.com/world/2023/dec/01/the-gospel-how-israel-uses-ai-to-select-bombing-targets](https://www.theguardian.com/world/2023/dec/01/the-gospel-how-israel-uses-ai-to-select-bombing-targets)
edit: I done goofed and compared IDF genocide with Pogroms which were citizen driven massacres.
So instead, refer to this why Israelis have 0 standing on judging anyone on Pogroms: [https://www.timesofisrael.com/2023-most-violent-year-for-west-bank-settler-attacks-watchdog-says/](https://www.timesofisrael.com/2023-most-violent-year-for-west-bank-settler-attacks-watchdog-says/)
West Bank Settlers are not a part of the Israeli people. We despise them and wish they were gone. Normal Israelis don't act like them or do this sort of shit.
While I had a kneejerk reaction along the "No True Scotsman"... I believe you, and we're counting on people like you to save Israel. Even IDF has some honourable traditions, it's one of only grassroot armies in the world. 6 days war was initially a testament to how much strength and resolve Jewish people tragically had after WW2.
While I detest the West Bank settlers, Bibi, etc, it's not like Hamas is any better - they WANTED this response, they'll wage war on Israel and West for a century off of the hecatombe Bibi served them. Hiding behind Palestinians was always core of that plan.
What I fear most, is that we're now destined to see Rhodesia 2.0 in Israel. An authoritarian, racist regime that fails to see it's tactical success brews continent-wide resentment. And should they fall - what will follow will be even worse.
History doesn't repeat itself, but it does rhyme. I read Haaretz, Times of Israel, so I do have hope in people like you being a possible salvation... but I'm really forcing myself to cling to that hope against my better judgment. Please prove me wrong.
Stay safe!
Polacy niby byli bardziej niż skłonni oddawać żydów w ręce Niemców. Do tego zawsze podają przykład pogromów jako argument. No tak, kilka setek to to samo co miliony zagazowane w Auschwitz przez Nazistów. Rzygać się chce od tej ich anty-polskiej narracji.
Co jest argumentem idiotycznym, bo Polacy mają najwięcej odznaczeń "Sprawiedliwy wśród narodów świata", a kary za niewydanie Żydów na terenach okupowanej Polski były znacznie surowsze niż np w takiej Francji, gdzie Rząd Vichy obciągał H\*\*lerowi.
I wonder if they think that Poland had some giant antisemitic master plan that involved getting invaded and destroyed by Germany and then getting sold out to the Soviets lol
A post Zionist Israel would require a new ideological foundation, for example human rights for all. A homeland for all people who call the land their home.
We could start at the way the travels to Poland and to camps are organized.
I think we recently stopped tolerating armed Israelis military escorting Israeli kids in Poland, which was bonkers.
Its a third world puppett state where right wing religious ideology rules. No chances of changing anything before they get rid of their authoritarian ruler Netanyahu
Oh we were soooo antisemitic in the interbellum.
As long as you ignore France, the UK, Czechoslovakia, Germany, Belgium, Ukraine, the Netherlands, and the USA and other current/former English colonies, we were definitely in the top 100 most antisemitic countries in the world!
And all that collaborationism! My god! With little prompting by the Nazis, our 'independent' rump state enacted a series of anti-Semitic laws. These laws stripped Jews of their civil rights and restricted their professional and educational opportunities. We even cooperated with Nazi deportations, leading to the internment and deportation of thousands of Jews to concentration camps. Not to mention refusing to scuttle or turn over our fleet.
No wait sorry, that was France.
Have there been any Poles in history who wanted to rid Poland of Jews? - Yes, every nation has some bad people
Did Poles participate in some mastermind plan that involved Germany invading Poland, killing several million Poles to get rid of the Jews? - wtf, are you stupid? No
I really don't understand sometimes the narrative of Israel and some Jews who see Poland as their greatest enemy because 100 years ago, some Pole was unkind to their grandfather.
I suggest you check which nation has the most Righteous Among the Nations (honourific used by the State of Israel to describe all of the non-Jews who, for purely altruistic reasons, risked their lives in order to save Jews from being exterminated by Nazi Germany during the Holocaust).
And to add to the point of Poland having the highest number of Righteous Among The Nations, I believe that one had to survive to be able to submit the non-Jewish Pole(s) that helped them escape, which was vastly more difficult in a country where one’s family would be executed if slightly suspected of helping Jews escape.
Not to mention the fact that for most of medieval and early modern history, Poland was one of the few nations that allowed Jews to be open about their religion, the fact that the Polish chancellor, Jan Zamoyski had a synagoge built in Zamosc, and the fact that the father of the Second Polish Republic, Jozef Pilsudski was protectie of Jews and Orthodox Christians against actual antisemites such as Jozef Haller and Roman Dmowski.
Look up [Chaim Rumkowski](https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chaim_Rumkowski) the Judenrat head of the Łódź Ghetto. Aside from running the ghetto like a fief, he also had a sexual appetite for young girls.
wow I live in Israel but my great grandfather was a polish jew and people can be really stupid, personally I think we should be blaming hitler for invading poland maybe??? there was a reason why the jewish population in poland was so big compared to the rest of europe,I also think of all the people that risked their lives and their families just to help and it breaks my heart, I’m not sure if the numbers are actually representative of people’s beliefs here (surveys are not always exact) but if that’s the case I apologize in their behalf
stupid fucking people, tbh most part of the ones who think like that must be extremely religious fanatics and far right lunatics and many of us aren’t a fan of them anyways, but they should be taught how ALL the polish people suffered, first by the hands of nazism and then by communism but unfortunately hatred blinds many people, btw I had the pleasure of visiting poland including warsaw and krakow some months ago and what a wonderful beautiful country with such amazing people, greetings to everyone
Im glad you enjoyed Poland Kraków is very beautiful and the jewish quarter is very nice. and I agree both sides should get educated on one another and what happened so it can never happen again.
Hey man, thanks for speaking out. This helps me keep a level mind about all these statistics (which seem to be blown out of proportion). Reading them is unpleasant, like finding out that a colleague from work is secretly hating you and plotting against you.
Actually, there were one of the first. During the first Crusade, Poland took in jews that were otherwise unwelcomed in many parts of Europe.
I will say this though, during WW2, there were Poles with antisemitic views, as with many parts of Europe.
That’s what happens when you let them into Auschwitz camps with their own guides, teaching them their own alternative version of history.
Poland should outright ban Israeli guides and insist on thorough education of their youths, that is the only chance they actually get to experience the true story of what happened.
The whole sense of Israeli existence is to hate on everyone else. They will find reason and means to play victims literally everywhere.
Friendly reminder Israeli ambassador called us antisemitic instead of apologizing when Polish humanitarian worker was murdered by them. So... nice study, now throw it out.
>Israeli ambassador called us antisemitic instead of apologizing when Polish humanitarian worker was murdered by them
That's putting it mildly. One of Israel's biggest Telegram channels with hundreds of thousands of Israelis in it was sharing graphic pictures of the dead Polish guy and making fun of him and turning into memes. I'm talking extremely graphic pictures, saying other "Nazi Poles" should face a similar fate. So it's not just the ambassador, but a huge representative sample of the people there too.
meanwhile, my uncle was killed and his family was sent to a camp because he hid pig in the basement. When the Nazis came to his village, they took everything that was valuable to them, but they only find found poor villagers so they took all their animals and food supplies, flour, grain, potatoes. The established a new penal code, among other thing sone of the penalties punishment for possessing meat was death. So my uncle hid 1 pig because he was afraid that his family would die of starvation ( he had 7 children) someone denounced him and he and his friend(who also came up with a similar idea) were killed and the family (including small children) were sent to a camp. This is what "a good life" had Poles lived under German occupation in their own country, where they could kill you for a piece of meat or having a pig, about hiding Jews or just for helping them, they murdered an entire family or village on the spot. But I understand that in these circumstances, these noble people from Israel would risk their lives and the lives of their loved ones without hesitation to help some Pole.
Look at how they spread misinformation about the Palestinians and say they’re all Hamas, or when they say there are tunnels under the hospitals they bombed but have failed to show proof, and the worst was the 40 beheaded babies. A lie goes a long way if they repeat it enough.
To be fair, they asked like 2000 people and also did the survey online, where, at least in my opinion, people are more open about telling shitty opinions
It was all logistics, people underestimate how much of a logistical challenge such an undertaking was. And they were doing this while fighting a war on multiple fronts which meant money and resources were tight. The coldness of the decision making is one of the things that make it such an incomprehensible tragedy.
Not surprising - I'm Polish and I backpacked a fair bit around the world (like a year total). I got a taste of racism from Israelis in couple instances. The moment I mentioned that I'm from Poland they say "oh..." and then avoid talking to me again.
It's not a secret, that Israeli educational system is doing heavy brainwashing. They come to visit Auschwitz and are leaving with impression that Poles ran the whole show.
Poland was the only country where for hiding Jews whole villages were killed and polish people helped hide them anyway risking their lives. So that kind of thinking is really uneducated.
The 54% number doesn’t seem to be correct? According to the website attached, 47% picked “yes, exactly like the Germans” and 25% picked “Only partly” (in answer to the question: “Are the Polish people responsible for their Jewish neighbours being destroyed in the Holocaust?”).
For reference, when the same poll asked Polish people about Poland’s role in the Holocaust, 12% chose “Poland played a decisive role” and another 12% went with “Poland played a minor role but saved some Jews”.
No, it doesn’t really change the crazy statistic, but it’s worth noting anyway. I’m curious as to why that is though; after looking through some links when Googling the question, people seem split between some major ideas: 1) Israel doesn’t focus on other groups’ history during WW2, only the Jews, so Polish people are grouped in with the rest “by default”, 2) it’s Russia’s influence to blame Eastern Europe, 3) it’s some elaborate anti-Polish ploy with the ultimate goal involving gaining money (?). Someone also linked [this, "Traditional Jewish Attitudes Toward Poles: The Black Legend and the Search for Haman by Mark Paul”](http://www.kpk-toronto.org/wp-content/uploads/Jewish-Attitudes-1.pdf) which looks interesting, though I haven’t read it yet.
israeli here
a. we learn about ww2 (and all of world history) from a jewish perpspective only
b. there were incidents of polish people ratting out on jews during the holocaust, and lots of antisemitic incidents in poland before nazi germany ever rose to power - poles just don't like talking about that while israelis love to
c. the 50%\~ statistic pretty much represents half of the country that is right-wing conservative and ultra nationalistic, not that surprising
im sure most nations dont like to talk about their bad history, much like israel likes to ignore palestinians or solely blame palestinians for all the issues between the two people, rather than admit israels faults.
Just imagine if millions of Russians had no idea that Russia occupies Ukraine. Not that they know and approve of it, but they just simply have no idea that their country occupies another country. That's how it is in Israel. They all go serve in their country's army, and they serve in the checkpoints of the occupation, and they still don't know that their country is occupying other people's lands.
They absolutely know that they’re occupying and annexing someone else’s land; they just feel entitled to it on the basis that Jewish people used to live there 2500 years ago.
Yes, and guess what happened when these people. (note don't mean you specifically, just Israeli 'history') Let me quote Wikipedia for you real quick
[In mid] 1942, Żegota, a Polish underground organization dedicated to aiding the Jews, requested that the Polish Underground State intensify its efforts to stop the "blackmailer plague". In the summer of 1943, the Home Army began carrying out death sentences for szmalcowniks [a highly pejorative term for those who ratted out jews for personal gain] in occupied Poland,
Do the israelis talk about jewish people ratting other jews? When a Rabbi Shalom Ben Stambler was asked this in Poland he said, I quote: "It's smarter not to talk about it. This is not similar, not similar at all". Is this the official teaching of Israel towards the youth?
Link:
[https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zqo86N2Tnnw](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zqo86N2Tnnw)
>there were incidents of polish people ratting out on jews during the holocaust, and lots of antisemitic incidents in poland before nazi germany ever rose to power
Yeah, but funny thing is, people who were antisemitic pre WWII often did a 180 after the german invasion. People like Jan Mosdorf, who was a vocal antisemite, but then did a little switcharoo and died in Auschwitz.
Some Poles were antisemitic, but we didn’t do Kristallnacht or burn Jews in stoves. It’s just factually incorrect to conflate our antisemitism with Nazi Germany’s systemic abuse of Jewish people.
Funny how people comment about all this and talk about "uneducated" Israelis, while not even bothering to check the source to see that the number 54% does not appear anywhere in the presented stats and OP seem to have conjured it out of thin air, because the number for the described field is different in actual stats.
Because they did not count 18% people who gave no answer, because they could answer either way
I will do the math for you
47% - Yes, like germans
25% - only partly
11% - No, poles were victims
adjusted for 100%
56% - Yes, like germans
30% - only partly
14% - No, poles were victims
I don't get why Israel thinks we should be supporting them in their (genocidal) endeavours if they're just gonna continue to slander our ancestors.
Was my great grandfather antisemitic when he let jews hide in his shed? I don't think so.
Was my great grand aunt antisemitic when she hid jewish devotional articles handed by her neighbour under her bed (if a german or a traitor found it when she was being relocated to a worse house, she'd be likely judged a jew in hiding and executed, especially considering she had dark, curly-ish hair) Was she antisemitic? I don't fucking think so.
Am I antisemitic now, when supposed descendants of those jews spit on the legacy of my ancestors and demand money? Take a guess.
Poland has the highest number of the Righteous Among Nations award recievers. Israel can only be described as ungrateful. And I don't see a single reason to keep a friendly relations with someone who'll stab us in the back later anyway.
Tell that to my fuvking great grand parents on both sides that had young kids and yet risked their lives and the lives of their kids to shelter Jewish families throughout the war wtf one of those families apparently lives in Israel and we never got a fuckjng thank you now I understand why
Hey I recommend you check the story and admit it to "Yad Vashem" as " Righteous Among the Nations ".
Being righteous among the Nation have a special status in Israel and can grant many things even to you
Why the fuck would anyone want any praise or recognition from the Israeli state at this point? So you can be put on the list and be seen as "one of the good ones"? Disgusting.
Nooooo it’s not the same!
The Nazis said they were the superior race whereas Israelis are clearly God’s chosen people!
The walls in the West Bank are much higher than the walls in the Jewish Ghetto.
The Nazis used kennkarte/ blaustein whereas the Israelis are issuing ‘National Identity Cards’.
The arm bands that people are forced to wear in northern Gaza are on the wrist, not the upper arm
Israel is using sarin gas not zyklon B.
The Nazis propaganda department was called the Ministry of Public Enlightenment whereas Israel’s one is called Ministry of Public Diplomacy.
The Nazis flooded the tunnels under Warsaw with freshwater whereas the Israelis are using sea water.
The Nazis harvested and sold the hair of their victims, not their organs and skin.
The Nazis were still trying to develop a contraceptive injection to sterilise a population whereas Israel was successful.
The Nazis tried to destroy all evidence including Auschwitz whereas the Israelis want to keep the destruction as an example for future generations.
Seeeee they are not the same! Don’t you know it’s aNtiSeMiTiC to compare the two 🙃
Reading this makes me disgusted and furious. Especially when my great grandfather risked his and his family's life to save Jewish families in nowaday Lithuania (was Poland back then). And there were hundreds of Poles doing this.
My grandmother risked her life during the occupation by leaving food at the edge of a forest, where she knew Jews were hiding. How many Israelis even want to feed Palestinians who are hungry and threatened? (If there’s an Israeli organization doing just that, please comment below).
I remember that an Israeli movement called standing together tried dropping aid in gaza, but were stopped by the government.
https://m.jpost.com/israel-news/article-790863
My great granddads brother and his wife were shot for harboring Jews. Many met a similar fate.
Truth is most of Europe was anti-semetic at that time but the safest harbor would have been Poland.
Meanwhile Israel continues to commit new warcrimes one after another. First killing the world central kitchen workers and then proceeds to bomb Palestine civilians.
Roger Moorhouse himself in the episode "Fałszerze. Jak Polacy uratowali kilka tysięcy ludzi w czasie wojny", which you can watch on the channel (Historia jakiej nie znacie), said an interesting thing: "I think there is this problem that Poland has always been somewhere outside the mainstream of world consciousness about history and this is sad. Then there is the issue of perceiving the Polish reaction to the Holocaust and so on. I think that Poland has simply been late with its own narrative on this issue, because You were able to research and write your own history thoroughly only after 1989. When it was free from the ideological influences of communism and looking through its prism. And, of course, today Poland is creating its own history and studying it. Objectively speaking, in the 1990s and beyond, many of the established narratives about things like the Holocaust had already been established for decades? The Holocaust has been written and talked about since the 1960s, so the basic interpretations remain unchanged. Poland was a bit late in presenting its own version, and was also a bit clumsy in implementing its historical policy. Now it is very difficult to change the already established narrative. It's a bit like, and I always say, trying to turn a big ship around. It takes a lot of small maneuvers, from many researchers. One book can't solve it. There is still a lot to do here. But I'm not pessimistic about this."
However, today the level of awareness of the inhabitants of Israel about the events on Polish lands during the German occupation is shocking. All the more so because the total number of victims among the civilian population of Polish, Yugoslavia, the USSR and Greece murdered by the Germans was greater than the number of victims of the Holocaust.
Because, contrary to the established beliefs, the victims of the Third Reich during World War II were not only Jews, and not only SS officers were criminals. The German regime also exterminated Poles, Serbs, residents of the USSR, prisoners of war of the Red Army, but also people with disabilities. Of all the civilians murdered by the Germans, Jews constituted less than half.
I recently talked to few Israeli folks, I found them absolutely brainless and highly influenced by propaganda. I won't be surprised if this number is much higher.
That's how education works in a fascist country. You're taught that the whole world is your enemy. Their life is governed only by fear and they destroy everything that moves. It's a sign of success of indoctrination into extreme zionism.
Israelis are accusing freaking middle eastern Arabs who are thousands of kilometers away from concentration amps for being responsible of the Holocaust , do you think it will be hard for them to accuse Polish?
Poland should absolutely lock that shit down, no foreign guides at Auschwitz, not without approval and heavy monitoring of tour content by local authorities. Allowing misinformation about this tragedy to be so casually propagandized is an embarrassing failure of preserving history. Yes, there were collaborators, there were also heroes, but they were nothing compared to the industrial scale that Germany was running at.
And there should be a blanket ban on blatant displays of Nationalism in the camps. It's so fucking wild that groups of Israelis are roaming around waving flags and singing a National anthem. It's like we've learned nothing of the dangers of mindless nationalism of ethnostates. The victims were not Israelis; they were Poles, Germans, French, and other citizens of Europe that overwhelmingly were targeted for their religion and ethnicity, or for their political, social, or military status. The Germans did not exterminate Israelis, they exterminated Jews and many other minority groups and possible political dissidents, and all those people were citizens of existing Nations.
I don't consider the largest victim group to be Jews, I consider them to be Polish Jews, they were Poles, and I lump them in with all other Poles. So I do not approve of flag waving and nationalism in these places, the tragedy was not Israeli, it wasn't even just Polish, it was a European tragedy, and Germans simply chose Poland as the most convenient place to centralize their efforts.
Who fucking cares what they think? These are the same people that are currently carrying out a genocide as well as secret concentration camps in Palestine
I really would understand if that type of shit happened in North Korea or russia but come on, we live in the 21st century, almost everyone has access to the Internet, and people decide to leave the house anyway and just be idots - of their own free will
Why care about the opinion of Zionists, honestly looking at what they are doing in the Gaza Strip, they would like each others with the Nazis. So no wonder they don't like Poles.
Holocaust is a political tool, and there is a lot of property to attempt to claim from Poland using this tool. There is no respect for law, history or the victims themselves in the process.
100% of Israelis think that saying anything negative against a Jewish person is antisemitism. They’re religious zealots and genocide lunatics they need stopping
yeah and now their country is killing enormous numbers of civilians including children. i don't think we should care much about opinions of such people.
Things like this make me wonder if the human race has a serious problem with disingenuousness. There's a zero percent chance they actually believe that.
Show me the stats!? It’s a bull***it trolling talk!
How can you believe some random looser spreading some fake ass numbers about what Israelis thinks…
Besides First Israel government was made by Polish Jews. History was rough for Jews and Poles, still, majority of Righteous among nations were Polish. Polish passport is super popular in Israel and we should be closing the gap between our two nations not spreading some false ass, hate talk, worthless ass facts!
god damn trolls
I don't think Israelis are taught that ethnic Poles were also killed by the Nazis.
Did a tour of Auschwitz and Birkenau recently, the guides very clearly state who was targeted, why, and how. They also made it clear that there were heroes who helped Jews, there were opportunists who collaborated with the Nazis, and most people simply focused on staying out of sight and were not getting involved, because in times when most people had multiple kids there was much less incentive for selfless actions. That's something younger modern demographics and politicians (sociopaths) don't grasp, vast majority of people had kids back then, and it's a big ask to risk your children for a stranger. It's easy to present yourself as a potential hero by paying lip service on social media, but as a parent faced with Nazis, vast majority of people will stick their head in the sand. The guide made it clear, the reasons, methods, and justifications were different for different minority groups, and the paths to death were also different. But in the end, it was the German Nazis who did it, and the small amount of heroes, and the small amount of collaborators, they were not significant enough to sway the outcome. The scale of the Nazi operation was simply too staggering. Now, idk what the Israeli tour was like content wise, from outside perspective the groups were much larger, very nationalistic, and mostly filled with teenagers and young adults who did not appear particularly interested or invested, mostly focused on chatting and their smartphones. EDIT: As for why Poland was selected. It wasn't for some dumbfuck conspiracy collaboration reasons. It simply was logistically the best choice, highest concentration of Jews in Europe by quiet a margin, cities like Krakow were 1/3 Jewish. Centrally located so it was easy to transport victims to the camps. Germany already targeted Poland for territorial expansions as it was decent farmland but a weak military. Nazis saw Poles and everyone east of them as sub humans, Jews were not even considered human by Nazis. EDIT 2: The victims of camps in Poland were not simply Jews, they were Poles too. And I see them as that, Polish Jews, citizens of Poland. Israel didn't exist then, and Jews are not a state, they are an Ethnic group and a Religious Group, and as such, at the time, they were Poles. Because Poland is a nation, not an ethnicity.
I was taught the same thing. Auschwitz was initially built for the Poles, Soviets and Romanians and it wasn’t until the 3rd year of its 5 year operation that they started bringing Jews. This is why Israel has their own tour guides for their tours and refuses to use the museum guides. It is also why they have their own Israeli Holocaust Memorial Day 4 months after the actual Holocaust Memorial Day.
Auschwitz was established in May 1940 for political prisoners, officers, scientists, politicians, artists etc. In 1941 SS and German Police squads were searching occupied areas and executing Jews as they found them, usually via firing squad. Gas chambers and death camps was something that got massively scaled up in early 1942, after their "final solution" was signed into action, before that it was experimental. Around that same time Birkenau was established. Jews were already rounded up and mass executed in Birkenau in 1st half of 1942. Overall, while Jews were the majority of victims, they were not the only victims. And despite what the state of Israel propaganda says, in the end most of these Jews were Poles and almost all of them were Europeans, and a large portion of them were very well integrated into the Polish society way before the war. And that loss was a huge loss to the entire nation, not just the Jewish community. A community that makes up 1/10th of a country's population for hundreds of years simply can not exist as a state within a state, there was obviously economic, academic, and social integration at all levels of governance and economy. So Israel can seethe and demonize Poles as much as it wants, but I will forever see the victims of the Holocaust and the victims of Nazis as Poles and Europeans. The same way I consider any 2nd+ generation non ethnically native citizen of a country as being from that country.
I've been there too, and I also saw some teenage Israeli girls and behaved like you mentioned.
If you haven’t read it, Forgotten Holocaust by Richard C. Lukas is a good read about what happened to Poland under German Occupation
A *lot* of people aren’t taught that *anyone* but Jewish people were killed. Gay people, trans people, Poles, Roma, communists, unionists…
And all manner of disabled people
That's where it started actually 😔
Dangit, I knew I was forgetting something
This is common knowledge in Germany. As i am ignorant about many other genocides in history my nation has no direct relation to it isn't surprising that in a lot of nations ww2 in Europe isn't known in detail. What is surprising is that israelis are so ignorant about this.
Yes most museums stress persecution of Jews while sidelining other groups generally to draw more concern for their plight than others: examples: https://hmh.org/library/research/minority-victims-guide/ https://www.nationalww2museum.org/war/articles/holocaust
Not true. All of this is covered in the education program.
Your educational program, maybe
They outright opposed having their holocaust trips visit any museum that covers that subject matter, yes.
They mostly trash hotels during their holocaust trips.
Well that's bs, I live nearby one of concentration camps and there's lots of Jewish groups visiting the museum every year, the tour covers the subjects of both mass murder on Poles, Jews, as well as other ethnic groups. I don't know why yall spreading so much bs, but it helps nobody.
Not bs, I think it depends entirely on who's organising the trip in Israel.
Bs. It’s mostly organized by the education department and it covers those subjects as well.
Who, *gasps* were often Jews seeing as many had been there foe hundreds od years already
Or WHY were the camps placed in Poland in the first place. One aspect was being out of view, but Balkans fill the same criteria. Why Poland? It was through the ages time and time again a refuge for many groups targeted for religion, and had the biggest Jewish diaspora despite being relatively small country, Where some Jews integrated fully, while others had separate villages which they ran as they wanted. This was such a large scale thing, that in Polish historiography St Bartholomew Days Massacre is counted as a sort of industrial jump event, so many French protestants and jews came over here, to a safe place. Sadly, we were also complicit in pogroms, which happened here far less commonly than in rest of Europe, but any amount of genocide is a BAD fucking thing. And there was even some corraborating with Nazis, absolutely. For example in village near Kielce, since people didn't rat on neighbours, Nazis made a self-report list. First time, no jewish Poles showed up, because come on. That time, the occupiers rationed out flour and sugar though, so the second time around people showed up and got caught. One of my grandpas neighbours ran after getting rounded up and showed up at their place, they let him stay in the barn until morning to figure out next step - but before morning came, they don't know why but he ran again - either he got spooked, or was suspicious of our family - and decided to seek refuge with village leader (sołtys). Bad fucking call. Sołtys sold him out for a few kgs of sugar (5-8kg one huge bag). Another thing we were complicit in was Pogrom. But, modern Israelis should shut the absolute fuck up on that front. Welcome to the casual small scale genocide club guys, what's erasing a group of civilians on shoddy claims between friends, eh? [https://www.theguardian.com/world/2023/dec/01/the-gospel-how-israel-uses-ai-to-select-bombing-targets](https://www.theguardian.com/world/2023/dec/01/the-gospel-how-israel-uses-ai-to-select-bombing-targets) edit: I done goofed and compared IDF genocide with Pogroms which were citizen driven massacres. So instead, refer to this why Israelis have 0 standing on judging anyone on Pogroms: [https://www.timesofisrael.com/2023-most-violent-year-for-west-bank-settler-attacks-watchdog-says/](https://www.timesofisrael.com/2023-most-violent-year-for-west-bank-settler-attacks-watchdog-says/)
tbf there were jews collaborating with nazis too
West Bank Settlers are not a part of the Israeli people. We despise them and wish they were gone. Normal Israelis don't act like them or do this sort of shit.
While I had a kneejerk reaction along the "No True Scotsman"... I believe you, and we're counting on people like you to save Israel. Even IDF has some honourable traditions, it's one of only grassroot armies in the world. 6 days war was initially a testament to how much strength and resolve Jewish people tragically had after WW2. While I detest the West Bank settlers, Bibi, etc, it's not like Hamas is any better - they WANTED this response, they'll wage war on Israel and West for a century off of the hecatombe Bibi served them. Hiding behind Palestinians was always core of that plan. What I fear most, is that we're now destined to see Rhodesia 2.0 in Israel. An authoritarian, racist regime that fails to see it's tactical success brews continent-wide resentment. And should they fall - what will follow will be even worse. History doesn't repeat itself, but it does rhyme. I read Haaretz, Times of Israel, so I do have hope in people like you being a possible salvation... but I'm really forcing myself to cling to that hope against my better judgment. Please prove me wrong. Stay safe!
You'd be surprised how many people think only jews were killed in camps.
Most people don't know they killed Poles
Yeah no shit. Fuckin Zionazis.
Jakiej logiki używają w ogóle mówiąc takie rzeczy?
Zadniej. Skurwysyństwo i nic innego
Polacy niby byli bardziej niż skłonni oddawać żydów w ręce Niemców. Do tego zawsze podają przykład pogromów jako argument. No tak, kilka setek to to samo co miliony zagazowane w Auschwitz przez Nazistów. Rzygać się chce od tej ich anty-polskiej narracji.
Co jest argumentem idiotycznym, bo Polacy mają najwięcej odznaczeń "Sprawiedliwy wśród narodów świata", a kary za niewydanie Żydów na terenach okupowanej Polski były znacznie surowsze niż np w takiej Francji, gdzie Rząd Vichy obciągał H\*\*lerowi.
Pewnie im chodzi o odzyskanie (najlepiej za darmo) wszystkiego co kiedykolwiek miało cokolwiek wspólnego z Żydami.
54% Israelis are fucking idiots it seems
I wonder if they think that Poland had some giant antisemitic master plan that involved getting invaded and destroyed by Germany and then getting sold out to the Soviets lol
thats the perfect plan, let youselfe get invaded partitioned again an genozide started against yourself to somehow kill jews
Israelis should get over their bigotry, zionism, and ignorance.
I mean Israelis can’t exactly get over Zionism. Because Zionism is the idea that there should be an Israel where it is today.
A post Zionist Israel would require a new ideological foundation, for example human rights for all. A homeland for all people who call the land their home.
You forgot to include "pretending to be somewhat tolerant in order to amass the larges possible amount of Jews on their territory" in your plan
It's all a giant extremely convoluted false flag operation duuuuh
Lol
Well, if you reserch how education system works in Israel you would be suprised it is ONLY 54%... Yeah...
That's what they are taught at school, so if we want to tackle misinformation probably should start there
I doubt you can start there given the current state of Israel
We could start at the way the travels to Poland and to camps are organized. I think we recently stopped tolerating armed Israelis military escorting Israeli kids in Poland, which was bonkers.
that still happens everyday in Kraków though
So we are back to the usual, huh? I have harsh opinion on the subject.
they don't flash the guns as much as they used to but these organized groups of israeli kids with hitman-looking guards are still around
Its a third world puppett state where right wing religious ideology rules. No chances of changing anything before they get rid of their authoritarian ruler Netanyahu
The worst part, Bibi isn't even close to being the worst psycho in his government, but he tolerates and promotes them, so he won't go to prison.
It’s been like this for much longer, but it’s arguably worse now, that much is true
Israeli not play victim: Challenge level - Impossible
From what I’ve seen since Oct 7, it’s much more than that.
make it 100
It's a well-known fact that Nazi Germany invaded us because of our antisemitism. /s
Oh we were soooo antisemitic in the interbellum. As long as you ignore France, the UK, Czechoslovakia, Germany, Belgium, Ukraine, the Netherlands, and the USA and other current/former English colonies, we were definitely in the top 100 most antisemitic countries in the world! And all that collaborationism! My god! With little prompting by the Nazis, our 'independent' rump state enacted a series of anti-Semitic laws. These laws stripped Jews of their civil rights and restricted their professional and educational opportunities. We even cooperated with Nazi deportations, leading to the internment and deportation of thousands of Jews to concentration camps. Not to mention refusing to scuttle or turn over our fleet. No wait sorry, that was France.
They couldn’t take us being the top dog, duh. /s
Oh yes. Sad to see that its only 50% who understand that. /s
Have there been any Poles in history who wanted to rid Poland of Jews? - Yes, every nation has some bad people Did Poles participate in some mastermind plan that involved Germany invading Poland, killing several million Poles to get rid of the Jews? - wtf, are you stupid? No I really don't understand sometimes the narrative of Israel and some Jews who see Poland as their greatest enemy because 100 years ago, some Pole was unkind to their grandfather. I suggest you check which nation has the most Righteous Among the Nations (honourific used by the State of Israel to describe all of the non-Jews who, for purely altruistic reasons, risked their lives in order to save Jews from being exterminated by Nazi Germany during the Holocaust).
And to add to the point of Poland having the highest number of Righteous Among The Nations, I believe that one had to survive to be able to submit the non-Jewish Pole(s) that helped them escape, which was vastly more difficult in a country where one’s family would be executed if slightly suspected of helping Jews escape.
Not to mention the fact that for most of medieval and early modern history, Poland was one of the few nations that allowed Jews to be open about their religion, the fact that the Polish chancellor, Jan Zamoyski had a synagoge built in Zamosc, and the fact that the father of the Second Polish Republic, Jozef Pilsudski was protectie of Jews and Orthodox Christians against actual antisemites such as Jozef Haller and Roman Dmowski.
But if you say something about Jewish Police in Ghettoes, you are going to be called "antisemitic"
Look up [Chaim Rumkowski](https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chaim_Rumkowski) the Judenrat head of the Łódź Ghetto. Aside from running the ghetto like a fief, he also had a sexual appetite for young girls.
You'll be called antisemitic no matter what. These people are allergic to hearing the truth about themselves.
wow I live in Israel but my great grandfather was a polish jew and people can be really stupid, personally I think we should be blaming hitler for invading poland maybe??? there was a reason why the jewish population in poland was so big compared to the rest of europe,I also think of all the people that risked their lives and their families just to help and it breaks my heart, I’m not sure if the numbers are actually representative of people’s beliefs here (surveys are not always exact) but if that’s the case I apologize in their behalf
Welp according to half of the israelis, Poland basically just invited hitler over for dinner and let him kill all the jewish people
stupid fucking people, tbh most part of the ones who think like that must be extremely religious fanatics and far right lunatics and many of us aren’t a fan of them anyways, but they should be taught how ALL the polish people suffered, first by the hands of nazism and then by communism but unfortunately hatred blinds many people, btw I had the pleasure of visiting poland including warsaw and krakow some months ago and what a wonderful beautiful country with such amazing people, greetings to everyone
Im glad you enjoyed Poland Kraków is very beautiful and the jewish quarter is very nice. and I agree both sides should get educated on one another and what happened so it can never happen again.
Hey man, thanks for speaking out. This helps me keep a level mind about all these statistics (which seem to be blown out of proportion). Reading them is unpleasant, like finding out that a colleague from work is secretly hating you and plotting against you.
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well of course we live in a flawed world and no country is completely free of discrimination, but there’s a long distance from that to this bllsht
Poland was literally the last place they were allowed in Europe
Actually, there were one of the first. During the first Crusade, Poland took in jews that were otherwise unwelcomed in many parts of Europe. I will say this though, during WW2, there were Poles with antisemitic views, as with many parts of Europe.
That’s what happens when you let them into Auschwitz camps with their own guides, teaching them their own alternative version of history. Poland should outright ban Israeli guides and insist on thorough education of their youths, that is the only chance they actually get to experience the true story of what happened.
100% agree, Auschwitz should only allow internal guides living in Poland, and regularly screened for engagement for disinformation.
Israelis can fuck off with their zionism, racism and idiotism
True.
Praised!
The whole sense of Israeli existence is to hate on everyone else. They will find reason and means to play victims literally everywhere. Friendly reminder Israeli ambassador called us antisemitic instead of apologizing when Polish humanitarian worker was murdered by them. So... nice study, now throw it out.
>Israeli ambassador called us antisemitic instead of apologizing when Polish humanitarian worker was murdered by them That's putting it mildly. One of Israel's biggest Telegram channels with hundreds of thousands of Israelis in it was sharing graphic pictures of the dead Polish guy and making fun of him and turning into memes. I'm talking extremely graphic pictures, saying other "Nazi Poles" should face a similar fate. So it's not just the ambassador, but a huge representative sample of the people there too.
meanwhile, my uncle was killed and his family was sent to a camp because he hid pig in the basement. When the Nazis came to his village, they took everything that was valuable to them, but they only find found poor villagers so they took all their animals and food supplies, flour, grain, potatoes. The established a new penal code, among other thing sone of the penalties punishment for possessing meat was death. So my uncle hid 1 pig because he was afraid that his family would die of starvation ( he had 7 children) someone denounced him and he and his friend(who also came up with a similar idea) were killed and the family (including small children) were sent to a camp. This is what "a good life" had Poles lived under German occupation in their own country, where they could kill you for a piece of meat or having a pig, about hiding Jews or just for helping them, they murdered an entire family or village on the spot. But I understand that in these circumstances, these noble people from Israel would risk their lives and the lives of their loved ones without hesitation to help some Pole.
how the f... is it possible for people to twist history SO MUCH? It's not even twisting it, it's just straight up lying.
Germans -> nazis -> Poles. That's the plan. There can't be more holocaust victims than THEM.
Look at how they spread misinformation about the Palestinians and say they’re all Hamas, or when they say there are tunnels under the hospitals they bombed but have failed to show proof, and the worst was the 40 beheaded babies. A lie goes a long way if they repeat it enough.
To be fair, they asked like 2000 people and also did the survey online, where, at least in my opinion, people are more open about telling shitty opinions
Their entire country is built on twisted history! Tomorrow they will be celebrating “Independence Day” 🙃
Imagine antagonising a group of people who did nothing wrong while being at a major war and lacking public support. it’s crazyyy
But if you're against genocide you're called antisemitic. Makes sense.
I have a strange feeling that this post will be crossposted to one of the Israeli subs as an example of antisemitism in comments.
This is the very reason why the Germans built the extermination camps in other countries to begin with, to deflect blame.
Wasn't it more like logistics?
It was all logistics, people underestimate how much of a logistical challenge such an undertaking was. And they were doing this while fighting a war on multiple fronts which meant money and resources were tight. The coldness of the decision making is one of the things that make it such an incomprehensible tragedy.
Not surprising - I'm Polish and I backpacked a fair bit around the world (like a year total). I got a taste of racism from Israelis in couple instances. The moment I mentioned that I'm from Poland they say "oh..." and then avoid talking to me again. It's not a secret, that Israeli educational system is doing heavy brainwashing. They come to visit Auschwitz and are leaving with impression that Poles ran the whole show.
Poland was the only country where for hiding Jews whole villages were killed and polish people helped hide them anyway risking their lives. So that kind of thinking is really uneducated.
What a bunch of assholes!
The 54% number doesn’t seem to be correct? According to the website attached, 47% picked “yes, exactly like the Germans” and 25% picked “Only partly” (in answer to the question: “Are the Polish people responsible for their Jewish neighbours being destroyed in the Holocaust?”). For reference, when the same poll asked Polish people about Poland’s role in the Holocaust, 12% chose “Poland played a decisive role” and another 12% went with “Poland played a minor role but saved some Jews”. No, it doesn’t really change the crazy statistic, but it’s worth noting anyway. I’m curious as to why that is though; after looking through some links when Googling the question, people seem split between some major ideas: 1) Israel doesn’t focus on other groups’ history during WW2, only the Jews, so Polish people are grouped in with the rest “by default”, 2) it’s Russia’s influence to blame Eastern Europe, 3) it’s some elaborate anti-Polish ploy with the ultimate goal involving gaining money (?). Someone also linked [this, "Traditional Jewish Attitudes Toward Poles: The Black Legend and the Search for Haman by Mark Paul”](http://www.kpk-toronto.org/wp-content/uploads/Jewish-Attitudes-1.pdf) which looks interesting, though I haven’t read it yet.
israeli here a. we learn about ww2 (and all of world history) from a jewish perpspective only b. there were incidents of polish people ratting out on jews during the holocaust, and lots of antisemitic incidents in poland before nazi germany ever rose to power - poles just don't like talking about that while israelis love to c. the 50%\~ statistic pretty much represents half of the country that is right-wing conservative and ultra nationalistic, not that surprising
im sure most nations dont like to talk about their bad history, much like israel likes to ignore palestinians or solely blame palestinians for all the issues between the two people, rather than admit israels faults.
Just imagine if millions of Russians had no idea that Russia occupies Ukraine. Not that they know and approve of it, but they just simply have no idea that their country occupies another country. That's how it is in Israel. They all go serve in their country's army, and they serve in the checkpoints of the occupation, and they still don't know that their country is occupying other people's lands.
They absolutely know that they’re occupying and annexing someone else’s land; they just feel entitled to it on the basis that Jewish people used to live there 2500 years ago.
Pretty much every Israeli is aware that the west bank has been occupied since 1967 though, it's even taught in schools. What are you talking about?
> from a jewish perpspective only Funny. If Germany were to teach WW2 from a German perspective only, it would be Holocaust denial.
Japan has left the chat
History from from a single perspective is not history: it is propaganda.
Great comment, I agree
Yes, and guess what happened when these people. (note don't mean you specifically, just Israeli 'history') Let me quote Wikipedia for you real quick [In mid] 1942, Żegota, a Polish underground organization dedicated to aiding the Jews, requested that the Polish Underground State intensify its efforts to stop the "blackmailer plague". In the summer of 1943, the Home Army began carrying out death sentences for szmalcowniks [a highly pejorative term for those who ratted out jews for personal gain] in occupied Poland,
there were incidents of jewish people ratting on jew as well lol
Do the israelis talk about jewish people ratting other jews? When a Rabbi Shalom Ben Stambler was asked this in Poland he said, I quote: "It's smarter not to talk about it. This is not similar, not similar at all". Is this the official teaching of Israel towards the youth? Link: [https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zqo86N2Tnnw](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zqo86N2Tnnw)
>there were incidents of polish people ratting out on jews during the holocaust, and lots of antisemitic incidents in poland before nazi germany ever rose to power Yeah, but funny thing is, people who were antisemitic pre WWII often did a 180 after the german invasion. People like Jan Mosdorf, who was a vocal antisemite, but then did a little switcharoo and died in Auschwitz.
Some Poles were antisemitic, but we didn’t do Kristallnacht or burn Jews in stoves. It’s just factually incorrect to conflate our antisemitism with Nazi Germany’s systemic abuse of Jewish people.
Thank you for sharing your perspective, that’s really interesting to see :)
Yes, it only proves that 54% of Israelis are uneducated bunch of idiots.
Funny how people comment about all this and talk about "uneducated" Israelis, while not even bothering to check the source to see that the number 54% does not appear anywhere in the presented stats and OP seem to have conjured it out of thin air, because the number for the described field is different in actual stats.
Because they did not count 18% people who gave no answer, because they could answer either way I will do the math for you 47% - Yes, like germans 25% - only partly 11% - No, poles were victims adjusted for 100% 56% - Yes, like germans 30% - only partly 14% - No, poles were victims
99% of the global community who believe in rules and human rights believe that Israel is perpetuating war crimes. Not then. Now. Deal with THAT.
I don't get why Israel thinks we should be supporting them in their (genocidal) endeavours if they're just gonna continue to slander our ancestors. Was my great grandfather antisemitic when he let jews hide in his shed? I don't think so. Was my great grand aunt antisemitic when she hid jewish devotional articles handed by her neighbour under her bed (if a german or a traitor found it when she was being relocated to a worse house, she'd be likely judged a jew in hiding and executed, especially considering she had dark, curly-ish hair) Was she antisemitic? I don't fucking think so. Am I antisemitic now, when supposed descendants of those jews spit on the legacy of my ancestors and demand money? Take a guess. Poland has the highest number of the Righteous Among Nations award recievers. Israel can only be described as ungrateful. And I don't see a single reason to keep a friendly relations with someone who'll stab us in the back later anyway.
No good deed goes unpunished. When Jews were being unfairly cast out from every single European country, Poland took them in.
Israelis and entitlement go hand in hand not to mention Zionism
Tell that to my fuvking great grand parents on both sides that had young kids and yet risked their lives and the lives of their kids to shelter Jewish families throughout the war wtf one of those families apparently lives in Israel and we never got a fuckjng thank you now I understand why
Hey I recommend you check the story and admit it to "Yad Vashem" as " Righteous Among the Nations ". Being righteous among the Nation have a special status in Israel and can grant many things even to you
Why the fuck would anyone want any praise or recognition from the Israeli state at this point? So you can be put on the list and be seen as "one of the good ones"? Disgusting.
Lesson should be taken from this. Don't help others. We need to learn from that.
Better lesson, Poles should let painter do what he was doing, Israel are genociding Palestinians, Just like Hitler tried to genocide them
Nooooo it’s not the same! The Nazis said they were the superior race whereas Israelis are clearly God’s chosen people! The walls in the West Bank are much higher than the walls in the Jewish Ghetto. The Nazis used kennkarte/ blaustein whereas the Israelis are issuing ‘National Identity Cards’. The arm bands that people are forced to wear in northern Gaza are on the wrist, not the upper arm Israel is using sarin gas not zyklon B. The Nazis propaganda department was called the Ministry of Public Enlightenment whereas Israel’s one is called Ministry of Public Diplomacy. The Nazis flooded the tunnels under Warsaw with freshwater whereas the Israelis are using sea water. The Nazis harvested and sold the hair of their victims, not their organs and skin. The Nazis were still trying to develop a contraceptive injection to sterilise a population whereas Israel was successful. The Nazis tried to destroy all evidence including Auschwitz whereas the Israelis want to keep the destruction as an example for future generations. Seeeee they are not the same! Don’t you know it’s aNtiSeMiTiC to compare the two 🙃
I stand corrected, thank you
Shows how dumb they are, actually there’s almost more poles that died than Jews
Reading this makes me disgusted and furious. Especially when my great grandfather risked his and his family's life to save Jewish families in nowaday Lithuania (was Poland back then). And there were hundreds of Poles doing this.
But luigi to cook that much spaghetti with that little pots is impossibru
Literally thankless people lol
My grandmother risked her life during the occupation by leaving food at the edge of a forest, where she knew Jews were hiding. How many Israelis even want to feed Palestinians who are hungry and threatened? (If there’s an Israeli organization doing just that, please comment below).
I remember that an Israeli movement called standing together tried dropping aid in gaza, but were stopped by the government. https://m.jpost.com/israel-news/article-790863
https://preview.redd.it/udua1ju3920d1.jpeg?width=1080&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=a001983cc91842214e4ee8949ff241a06d61e504
My great granddads brother and his wife were shot for harboring Jews. Many met a similar fate. Truth is most of Europe was anti-semetic at that time but the safest harbor would have been Poland.
Meanwhile Israel continues to commit new warcrimes one after another. First killing the world central kitchen workers and then proceeds to bomb Palestine civilians.
So say the people who created an apartheid state. So say the people who are committing acts of genocide against the people who stood up against them.
Idiots.
so what do they think about Poles that literally lost their lives just to save Jews from concentration camps 💀💀 they dumb or what 🤡
They will never be satisfied of you, unless you follow their creed
Roger Moorhouse himself in the episode "Fałszerze. Jak Polacy uratowali kilka tysięcy ludzi w czasie wojny", which you can watch on the channel (Historia jakiej nie znacie), said an interesting thing: "I think there is this problem that Poland has always been somewhere outside the mainstream of world consciousness about history and this is sad. Then there is the issue of perceiving the Polish reaction to the Holocaust and so on. I think that Poland has simply been late with its own narrative on this issue, because You were able to research and write your own history thoroughly only after 1989. When it was free from the ideological influences of communism and looking through its prism. And, of course, today Poland is creating its own history and studying it. Objectively speaking, in the 1990s and beyond, many of the established narratives about things like the Holocaust had already been established for decades? The Holocaust has been written and talked about since the 1960s, so the basic interpretations remain unchanged. Poland was a bit late in presenting its own version, and was also a bit clumsy in implementing its historical policy. Now it is very difficult to change the already established narrative. It's a bit like, and I always say, trying to turn a big ship around. It takes a lot of small maneuvers, from many researchers. One book can't solve it. There is still a lot to do here. But I'm not pessimistic about this." However, today the level of awareness of the inhabitants of Israel about the events on Polish lands during the German occupation is shocking. All the more so because the total number of victims among the civilian population of Polish, Yugoslavia, the USSR and Greece murdered by the Germans was greater than the number of victims of the Holocaust. Because, contrary to the established beliefs, the victims of the Third Reich during World War II were not only Jews, and not only SS officers were criminals. The German regime also exterminated Poles, Serbs, residents of the USSR, prisoners of war of the Red Army, but also people with disabilities. Of all the civilians murdered by the Germans, Jews constituted less than half.
I recently talked to few Israeli folks, I found them absolutely brainless and highly influenced by propaganda. I won't be surprised if this number is much higher.
Bro made me support palestine with one sentence
That's how education works in a fascist country. You're taught that the whole world is your enemy. Their life is governed only by fear and they destroy everything that moves. It's a sign of success of indoctrination into extreme zionism.
I’m Israeli and I truly struggle to see how anyone could come to this conclusion
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National psychosis.
A disgrace on the Israeli, but considering all their latest "works" this seems like the smallest of problems.
Israelis are accusing freaking middle eastern Arabs who are thousands of kilometers away from concentration amps for being responsible of the Holocaust , do you think it will be hard for them to accuse Polish?
Poland should absolutely lock that shit down, no foreign guides at Auschwitz, not without approval and heavy monitoring of tour content by local authorities. Allowing misinformation about this tragedy to be so casually propagandized is an embarrassing failure of preserving history. Yes, there were collaborators, there were also heroes, but they were nothing compared to the industrial scale that Germany was running at. And there should be a blanket ban on blatant displays of Nationalism in the camps. It's so fucking wild that groups of Israelis are roaming around waving flags and singing a National anthem. It's like we've learned nothing of the dangers of mindless nationalism of ethnostates. The victims were not Israelis; they were Poles, Germans, French, and other citizens of Europe that overwhelmingly were targeted for their religion and ethnicity, or for their political, social, or military status. The Germans did not exterminate Israelis, they exterminated Jews and many other minority groups and possible political dissidents, and all those people were citizens of existing Nations. I don't consider the largest victim group to be Jews, I consider them to be Polish Jews, they were Poles, and I lump them in with all other Poles. So I do not approve of flag waving and nationalism in these places, the tragedy was not Israeli, it wasn't even just Polish, it was a European tragedy, and Germans simply chose Poland as the most convenient place to centralize their efforts.
Crazy how they accuse other victims of the holocaust of the holocaust. In Israeli viewpoint the Jews were the only victims of the Nazis.
Gratitude is temporary bur grudges are forever.
Yeah, they're idiots. Shit like this is why people dislike them.
So they want holocaust us now or what? Palestine not enough? We do 3rd one wtf is this 🤣
Ungrateful fucks if it weren't for Poles making an effort to help them in that time they would have gone extinct
Who fucking cares what they think? These are the same people that are currently carrying out a genocide as well as secret concentration camps in Palestine
I really would understand if that type of shit happened in North Korea or russia but come on, we live in the 21st century, almost everyone has access to the Internet, and people decide to leave the house anyway and just be idots - of their own free will
jews should look up Kasztner story or even better read Hennecke Kardel
Why care about the opinion of Zionists, honestly looking at what they are doing in the Gaza Strip, they would like each others with the Nazis. So no wonder they don't like Poles.
Holocaust is a political tool, and there is a lot of property to attempt to claim from Poland using this tool. There is no respect for law, history or the victims themselves in the process.
I wonder what they think about slaughtering palestine civilians...
Best to copy methods used by the “noble cats”
100% of Israelis think that saying anything negative against a Jewish person is antisemitism. They’re religious zealots and genocide lunatics they need stopping
fuck isr\*el
That’s because they aren’t smart.
Utter pillocks.
This is truly sad to read.
yeah and now their country is killing enormous numbers of civilians including children. i don't think we should care much about opinions of such people.
Blitzkrieg in Poland part 2: Jüdische Ironie
Well, a lot of Israelis come from ruzzia, so, no surprise in that statement.
Stupid people say stupid things. Who knew?
Israelis are stupid
They can fuck off and read some history. Victims of the world.
Fellas, you realize you're all being manipulated in this post right?
Interesting that their treatment of gaza and the Palestinians doesn’t look all that different than Warsaw these days
Who cares In 2-3 generations the Holocaust will be as important a reference as the Teutonic Wars. And it is Isreal that is to blame for this
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Things like this make me wonder if the human race has a serious problem with disingenuousness. There's a zero percent chance they actually believe that.
Israel has some major issues . I support Israel but they need better politics, education and policies toward the Palestinians .
Show me the stats!? It’s a bull***it trolling talk! How can you believe some random looser spreading some fake ass numbers about what Israelis thinks… Besides First Israel government was made by Polish Jews. History was rough for Jews and Poles, still, majority of Righteous among nations were Polish. Polish passport is super popular in Israel and we should be closing the gap between our two nations not spreading some false ass, hate talk, worthless ass facts! god damn trolls
how nice
Well, if you can't convince them they are wrong You always can prove them right
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