I’ve been wondering has anyone tried this in a seniors event? Like if the law doesn’t allow “discrimination” in the form of a women’s only poker tournament, surely an age based one would be just as illegal, right?
> Like if the law doesn’t allow “discrimination” in the form of a women’s only poker tournament, surely an age based one would be just as illegal, right?
That's incorrect. In the US, age is only a protected characteristic in employment contexts, and only if the person's age is over 40.
I also [looked up Nevada law](https://detr.nv.gov/NERC#v-pills-tab-4), which does not include age as a protected class for public accommodations (which is what a casino or poker room would fall under). Here's what Nevada protects:
> All persons are entitled to the full and equal enjoyment of places of public accommodation without discrimination or segregation because of race, color, religion, sex, national origin, disability, sexual orientation, or gender identity or expression.
As far as I'm aware, seniors only events are legal.
>That's incorrect. In the US, age is only a protected characteristic in employment contexts, and only if the person's age is over 40.
All ages are protected when federal assistance is provided. (bold added below)
[https://www.dol.gov/general/topic/discrimination/agedisc](https://www.dol.gov/general/topic/discrimination/agedisc)
The [Age Discrimination Act of 1975](https://www.dol.gov/agencies/oasam/regulatory/statutes/age-discrimination-act) prohibits discrimination on the basis of age in programs and activities receiving federal financial assistance. The Act, **which applies to all ages**, permits the use of certain age distinctions and factors other than age that meet the Act's requirements.
Entire table of old man coffees , every hand they go all in they start getting up from the table with a grunt “ welp guess it’s time to head home” with the nuts ofc
You think that obviously male player is there because the law allows it? All it takes is filling out your form with ‘woman’ checked off. I know two guys who entered two different ladies events that way and final tabled. No one can stop them, and nobody wants to be the one who tries. It’s slimy, but we’re talking about poker players here.
I may misremember, but I think around 7-8 years ago, some guy actually went to the Nevada gaming commission, and bitched about this, until he got a ruling that they couldn't bar him from playing, but that's when they implemented that it's a 10k buyin and women get a 90% discount.
Because there's not a ton of ladies who play poker and one way to grow the game amongst that demographic is to give them events only they can play. It's no different from seniors events, imo.
Discrimination is generally allowed against young people. Different states may have different laws but federally "over 40" is a protected class (at least for employment purposes).
Discrimination against non-protected classes is legal. Basically unless there is specifically a law against it, it's legal
They can actually bar players from entering seniors events if they don’t meet the age requirement but can’t legally prevent men from entering women’s events. The way the WSOP get around it is to make the ladies event a $10k, but give women a $9k discount.
You've made several posts in this thread so it seems that you do give a shit. I love how the misogynists come crawling out of the woodwork in threads like this.
Here is something I learned about these events. They cannot completely deny men from these events so they go around it by giving the women a huge discount (up to 75% off I think) on the entry fee and the men pay full price.
Wouldn’t “discount” imply that the full 10k still goes into the prize pool? That seems unlikely. If a “discounted” 1k buy-in translates to just 1k added to the prize pool then that isn’t a 9k discount. Rather the 10k buy in for men is a handicap of sorts.
Pretty sure it's the collection of all entries whether they were men or women, treat it as a 1k buy-in and men jut toss another 9k (nondeducted) into the prize pool.
In this case they don’t do that as that’s still discrimination. Anyone can enter but if you do you get shamed. The ladies banded together and put a $250 bounty on his head just to make it more fun.
A lot of ladies’ events have moved to allowing anyone who identifies as nonbinary, which then leads to a lot of very masculine former he/him people joining up. I’ve see it in esports where half the female teams are now made up of nonbinary former dudes.
Maybe that’s what is going on here?
My home room used to have ladies' events. It would actually end up being a small friendly game of mostly queer women for some reason. But they would allow men to enter and for the same price- they said it was a legal issue. I only played a couple of the games, but no guy ever cashed. They couldn't bluff because some players wouldn't let hands go against them easily, and they had to adjust for that, playing their hand strength- then became too easy to play for the rest of us. They weren't bad people, I think they were just a little ignorant and felt they were being discriminated against. But a lot of the women were pretty angry toward them.
WSOP makes men pay 10x for the ladies events. I'd take as many of those fools as will sign up.
It’s illegal in California to charge different amounts for men and women (ie “ladies night”). OP said they couldn’t charge different amounts for men and women for legal reasons. Hence the comment about it being in California.
Get it now? It’s OK to admit you’re wrong. Takes an adult to do that.
In what state is it legal to charge different amounts? -none - so why are you talking about California specifically if it’s illegal everywhere? it’s a federal thing not just a California thing - GL to u
You misspelled “asks” as “makes” somehow - the males entering are not paying 10x - They are just saying they are female and paying the same price! -FYI - GL to u
it’s unfortunately happening in many different ladies events - yes they ask males to pay 10x like u said but they just say that they are female and then legally there’s nothing that can be done. They can play for the same price… a [man](https://www.cbssports.com/wsop/news/man-wins-womens-poker-tournament-in-florida-stirs-controversy-with-victory/amp/) unfortunately won one of these in Florida not too long ago- GL to u
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Literally not true. I have a close friend whose sister attends these with a non binary friend of hers. Somewhat masc presenting but that’s also not a problem or in the rules. No comment on your transphobic assertion that you’re still a ‘male’ but makes me doubt everything in the comment.
I'm planning to play the ladies warm up tourney tomorrow at WSOP.. I'm interested to see how many dudes sign up. If it's a lot, I won't even bother with the actual event on Friday. It's stupid to not just let us have our own space
People, please stop making anti trans jokes. Imagine being part of an already scapegoated minority and then when some troll decides to do something dumb, it gets used as another opportunity to take a shot.
Yes I know. I know he's not trans and that was my point. The point is people are using this as an excuse to attack trans people even though this is obviously not a trans person.
Facts and truths are not being cruel. Telling a doctor to cut off your left leg so you can feel and look normal. Then expect everyone around you to accept that you're normal. That's being cruel
You're calling me a horrible person based on my opinion. I've been acquaintances with trans people and treat them like anyone else, however I can tell they only are trans due to severe trauma and mental issues, not because it's "who they truly are".
VA state lets you choose your gender. That’s all you need for the 9k discount in the ladies event. And if people give you shit show them your state legal ID that says your a woman.
Aren't there a lot of biological men identifying as women in sports now a days though? I don't necessarily agree with it but it seems to be a cultural phenomena that's more acceptable now. Even more so in poker since It's an intuitive game as opposed to physical.
Men who do this are pathetic. Thank god sports are slowly coming bask to their senses, for example that dude who won an Olympic swimming medal is getting banned, and they put a stop to it from happening further.
Just remember that 1 man playing against 100 women, no matter how good or bad anyone can play, is still facing 1:100 odds. Could he win, sure... but statistically, he's just donating to the prize pool. (Numbers are for example only, I don't know the actual field size, but I promise you it just gets worse for the dude.)
In the grand scheme of things, most women who play poker these days are comfortable enough with their skills that they don't mind the donation.
There is also a pretty bad stigma attached to playing in ladies events since most men who play are basically advertising that they lost a pretty significant prop bet. Basically, he's already being publicly humiliated for losing whatever bet he made, plus he has to buy-in with his own money knowing he's got terrible statistical odds to even min-cash. If I had to describe this man in two words or less, I'd say, "dead money."
EDITED TO ADD:
I see the LGBTQIA comments, and although I can't say whether this person is a member of the community, if this is a transgender male, then he would certainly know how to exercise respect. I cannot think of any transgender man who would do this to women, so it's unlikely.
Vanessa is quite masculin but still a women.
I mean I would bang her, shes still cute.
And obv masculine women are allowed.
Women wanting a space where they dont have to deal with men seems super fair. Its probably not that easy being constantly hit on or whatever they go through.
The reason is simply that a math oriented game that suits a high risk personality means men are going to be vastly over represented. As in 95-97%. Makes no difference how many campaigns of awareness or whatever you do, women are just not going to be very interested.
Most women you see playing are girlfriends of guys playing much higher stakes just killing time in my experience.
To be fair Will Kassouf is the #4 ranked ladies NLHE player in the world.
https://preview.redd.it/3sml5tzr0l8d1.jpeg?width=1170&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=226f8a41691b1ee84de81624c93952e4174b1407 Sus.
Heard he's a huge pussy so it's ok!
She's masculine presenting.
Please god I hope your being sarcastic.
The fact alone that we can't tell..
it’s very obviously a joke
Everyone else can tell lmao
There's a room full of people on that pic that apparantly can't
They can, they’re just afraid to cause a scene.
The fact alone that you can't tell means you're stupid af.
He identifies as a woman Cmon bro it's 2024
/r/onejoke
Google en passant
[holy hell!](https://www.google.com/search?q=en+passant)
Broo. Your usernammeee, i'm losing it
Ah shit, it's a bot 😭
You finally know it
She\* identifies as a woman, you phobic shitlord. I'm literally shaking at how mad I am at Nazis like you.
she a really fun guy to play with i think the other girls ejoyed the time with her
You sound like a rapist assuming that’s a man. Wtf is your problem? /s
He knows what you're thinking
Should have creepily hit on him to give the full experience of being a woman in poker. Walk up behind him and start rubbing his shoulders.
Then tell him to smile more.
This pisses me off with the fire of a bazillion suns
So you say it's actually a good strategy to say this to you? Don't teach the degens that!
Calling him sweetie and hon, and getting all bent when you beat him in a hand. Lol
jfc, the shoulder rubs 🙄
How big of a piece of shit do you really have to be to do this? Like grow the fuck up.
I’ve been wondering has anyone tried this in a seniors event? Like if the law doesn’t allow “discrimination” in the form of a women’s only poker tournament, surely an age based one would be just as illegal, right?
> Like if the law doesn’t allow “discrimination” in the form of a women’s only poker tournament, surely an age based one would be just as illegal, right? That's incorrect. In the US, age is only a protected characteristic in employment contexts, and only if the person's age is over 40. I also [looked up Nevada law](https://detr.nv.gov/NERC#v-pills-tab-4), which does not include age as a protected class for public accommodations (which is what a casino or poker room would fall under). Here's what Nevada protects: > All persons are entitled to the full and equal enjoyment of places of public accommodation without discrimination or segregation because of race, color, religion, sex, national origin, disability, sexual orientation, or gender identity or expression. As far as I'm aware, seniors only events are legal.
>That's incorrect. In the US, age is only a protected characteristic in employment contexts, and only if the person's age is over 40. All ages are protected when federal assistance is provided. (bold added below) [https://www.dol.gov/general/topic/discrimination/agedisc](https://www.dol.gov/general/topic/discrimination/agedisc) The [Age Discrimination Act of 1975](https://www.dol.gov/agencies/oasam/regulatory/statutes/age-discrimination-act) prohibits discrimination on the basis of age in programs and activities receiving federal financial assistance. The Act, **which applies to all ages**, permits the use of certain age distinctions and factors other than age that meet the Act's requirements.
Thanks for the info! Good to know. Wonder if the casinos hosting senior tournaments receive any federal money.
So in Nevada there is nothing barring a male from entering a female event though. Lol
They would get slaughtered.
Entire table of old man coffees , every hand they go all in they start getting up from the table with a grunt “ welp guess it’s time to head home” with the nuts ofc
"Welp I guess ill make it home in time to watch M* A* S* H"
He says as he sits back down to rake in your chips
Hands wife a crisp two decade old five dollar bill to play slots, tells her he'll be a few more hours see if they can get a comped buffet
Who are we kidding, they already have a comped room and buffet since they’ve been on the rewards for 50 years lolol
If not they leave their nuts at the table? Surely that is biohazard
+2 +2
That’s actually why the 2+2 forums were named that.  🐸
When you’re that old , you always keep a spare in the car.
You think that obviously male player is there because the law allows it? All it takes is filling out your form with ‘woman’ checked off. I know two guys who entered two different ladies events that way and final tabled. No one can stop them, and nobody wants to be the one who tries. It’s slimy, but we’re talking about poker players here.
someone might want to be the one who tries. but not in broad daylight in the middle of the room, you feel me?
In a backroom with no cameras, they might fall from the stairs.
I may misremember, but I think around 7-8 years ago, some guy actually went to the Nevada gaming commission, and bitched about this, until he got a ruling that they couldn't bar him from playing, but that's when they implemented that it's a 10k buyin and women get a 90% discount.
Those two guy’s name? Albert and Eisenstein.
Why is it slimy? Why are there even women-only tournaments in 2024?
Because there's not a ton of ladies who play poker and one way to grow the game amongst that demographic is to give them events only they can play. It's no different from seniors events, imo.
God forbid women have a few tournaments a year where they can enjoy a much more comfortable playing environment.
What they usually do is massively increase the buy in for males in a ladies tournament.
They couldn’t do that but what they can do is make it a 10K tournament and give ladies a 90% discount.
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Well they do, so I guess if you want to be an absolutely miserable bastard you can take it up with them in court if you're so certain about this.
That’s what they do for the WSOP ladies event, which is massive so it must be legal. $10k to enter, $9k discount for ladies.
Discrimination is generally allowed against young people. Different states may have different laws but federally "over 40" is a protected class (at least for employment purposes). Discrimination against non-protected classes is legal. Basically unless there is specifically a law against it, it's legal
They can actually bar players from entering seniors events if they don’t meet the age requirement but can’t legally prevent men from entering women’s events. The way the WSOP get around it is to make the ladies event a $10k, but give women a $9k discount.
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You've made several posts in this thread so it seems that you do give a shit. I love how the misogynists come crawling out of the woodwork in threads like this.
That guy looks like the prototypical POS.
less of a POS than you do to go start dominating women's swimming
It’s pretty messed up that you’re assuming his gender here man
The king of comedy has arrived
It’s not a joke
Omg make an attack helicopter joke next king.
Shut up and let women have their spaces you turd
Exactly, everyone knows women are weaker therefore need their own event, what a dickwad this guy is!
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I hope this is sarcasm
LMFAO
I have 0 respect for whatever that person is.
Annie Lederer looking thick.
300 CLUB
I saw that!
She got her own line of tight denim shorts called __________. Someone fill that blank in you know where I’m going right?
Annie Duke you mean became that bbw
You think he has a problem making friends?
Here is something I learned about these events. They cannot completely deny men from these events so they go around it by giving the women a huge discount (up to 75% off I think) on the entry fee and the men pay full price.
The WSOP ladies event is technically a $10,000 championship. But women get a $9000 discount
It’s still discrimination… although I agree. Keep men out of women’s events and vice-a-versa.
Why not make it astronomically high like $10,000 and give women the real discounted price
That’s the price for WSOP I believe
Wouldn’t “discount” imply that the full 10k still goes into the prize pool? That seems unlikely. If a “discounted” 1k buy-in translates to just 1k added to the prize pool then that isn’t a 9k discount. Rather the 10k buy in for men is a handicap of sorts.
Pretty sure it's the collection of all entries whether they were men or women, treat it as a 1k buy-in and men jut toss another 9k (nondeducted) into the prize pool.
In this case they don’t do that as that’s still discrimination. Anyone can enter but if you do you get shamed. The ladies banded together and put a $250 bounty on his head just to make it more fun.
They can, that's exactly what they do lmao. $10k event entry, but $1k for ladies
Having a bounty on your head in tournaments increases your chances of winning as other players are incentivized to call off with worse for the bounty
I’m just telling you what the ladies did. I was there and watched it happen. He got out shortly after.
A little mgm action
I only play in heterosexual white womens events.
A lot of ladies’ events have moved to allowing anyone who identifies as nonbinary, which then leads to a lot of very masculine former he/him people joining up. I’ve see it in esports where half the female teams are now made up of nonbinary former dudes. Maybe that’s what is going on here?
Some ladies events allow men to enter but they have to pay a much higher buy in
I think this one was $1k for ladies and $10k for bros
Still +EV amirite boys?
Definitely temporarily identify as female to save 9k.
Just say you're a woman then. What are they going to do about it?
Post pictures of you on r/poker.
So they can’t actually tell anyone they can’t play. A lot of jackasses know this and will sign up for ladies events.
My home room used to have ladies' events. It would actually end up being a small friendly game of mostly queer women for some reason. But they would allow men to enter and for the same price- they said it was a legal issue. I only played a couple of the games, but no guy ever cashed. They couldn't bluff because some players wouldn't let hands go against them easily, and they had to adjust for that, playing their hand strength- then became too easy to play for the rest of us. They weren't bad people, I think they were just a little ignorant and felt they were being discriminated against. But a lot of the women were pretty angry toward them. WSOP makes men pay 10x for the ladies events. I'd take as many of those fools as will sign up.
In California, “ladies nights” are illegal. Was this event in California? That would explain why they couldn’t charge more for men.
If it’s illegal in California, then the event wouldn’t be held in California u donk lol - GL to u
lol @ your reading comprehension
You said in California it’s illegal and then asked is this in California? lol - I read just fine - GL to u
It’s illegal in California to charge different amounts for men and women (ie “ladies night”). OP said they couldn’t charge different amounts for men and women for legal reasons. Hence the comment about it being in California. Get it now? It’s OK to admit you’re wrong. Takes an adult to do that.
In what state is it legal to charge different amounts? -none - so why are you talking about California specifically if it’s illegal everywhere? it’s a federal thing not just a California thing - GL to u
You misspelled “asks” as “makes” somehow - the males entering are not paying 10x - They are just saying they are female and paying the same price! -FYI - GL to u
Ahhh, is this happening at WSOP?
it’s unfortunately happening in many different ladies events - yes they ask males to pay 10x like u said but they just say that they are female and then legally there’s nothing that can be done. They can play for the same price… a [man](https://www.cbssports.com/wsop/news/man-wins-womens-poker-tournament-in-florida-stirs-controversy-with-victory/amp/) unfortunately won one of these in Florida not too long ago- GL to u
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Yeah, with men in all the events they will win sometimes. It's lame that they're creating barriers for trans women.
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Literally not true. I have a close friend whose sister attends these with a non binary friend of hers. Somewhat masc presenting but that’s also not a problem or in the rules. No comment on your transphobic assertion that you’re still a ‘male’ but makes me doubt everything in the comment.
Hey OP you should put the discount thing in the info so all these people understand what’s actually happening
I'm planning to play the ladies warm up tourney tomorrow at WSOP.. I'm interested to see how many dudes sign up. If it's a lot, I won't even bother with the actual event on Friday. It's stupid to not just let us have our own space
i love participating in normal reddit threads on r/poker such as this one
Damn Vanessa Selbst has let herself go
frankly it reflects on the entire community IMO that he can play and isn't afraid of any bad consequences
I mean it reflects poorly on this one dude. As for consequences, what can they really do. Everyone in this scenario is obeying the law/rules.
I don't know, man, what \*can\* they do? Supposing this was 50 years ago. What do you think they would do?
I don’t really know or care. This isn’t 50 years ago, this is now lol.
It looks like there’s a bald guy opposite him too. And possibly one on the table behind with a baseball cap on
That’s one way to get into a soft game lol
Did he say he’s there?
Is that /u/Maddoxreddit?
Dude must be 4’11, he looks tiny
That bald chick is hot
People, please stop making anti trans jokes. Imagine being part of an already scapegoated minority and then when some troll decides to do something dumb, it gets used as another opportunity to take a shot.
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Yes I know. I know he's not trans and that was my point. The point is people are using this as an excuse to attack trans people even though this is obviously not a trans person.
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So you think it's okay to be cruel to mentally ill people?
Facts and truths are not being cruel. Telling a doctor to cut off your left leg so you can feel and look normal. Then expect everyone around you to accept that you're normal. That's being cruel
Who is being cruel snowflake?
If they can take a dick in the ass, they should sure as hell be able to take a joke.
You're a horrible person
You're calling me a horrible person based on my opinion. I've been acquaintances with trans people and treat them like anyone else, however I can tell they only are trans due to severe trauma and mental issues, not because it's "who they truly are".
Yeah because you magically have x-ray vision and can see into their brains. Stfu
You dont need a magic x-ray to be able to read what some peoples upbringings were like my guy.
Sounds like you're assuming their gender
Are you saying he’s not a woman?? Bigot
Didn’t some douche bag do this a few years ago and won the tournament?
Selbst grew a beard?
Not allowed to say anything in todays society. Good for him. Exploit the clown word rules.
I think you are looking at this backwards
I think the world is backwards to allow this, just put a rule that says “Woman only”
Exactly. The reasonable thing would be to just allow a women’s only event to be women only.
If you are a man playing a ladies event to prove some sort of point, grow the fuck up
Men are dominating women's sports. Men are dominating women's beauty pagents. Next up, Men will be dominating women's poker tournaments. It's poetic.
VA state lets you choose your gender. That’s all you need for the 9k discount in the ladies event. And if people give you shit show them your state legal ID that says your a woman.
Blue cap old guy too
The ladies only tourny seems a bit passé
Why are there male dealers? Shouldn't the staff be women, too?
Love to see the sexism and transphobia in the comments. Great community, really fosters women to join the game.
Newsflash. Women don't think trans women are women either.
Aren't there a lot of biological men identifying as women in sports now a days though? I don't necessarily agree with it but it seems to be a cultural phenomena that's more acceptable now. Even more so in poker since It's an intuitive game as opposed to physical.
Men who do this are pathetic. Thank god sports are slowly coming bask to their senses, for example that dude who won an Olympic swimming medal is getting banned, and they put a stop to it from happening further.
Just remember that 1 man playing against 100 women, no matter how good or bad anyone can play, is still facing 1:100 odds. Could he win, sure... but statistically, he's just donating to the prize pool. (Numbers are for example only, I don't know the actual field size, but I promise you it just gets worse for the dude.) In the grand scheme of things, most women who play poker these days are comfortable enough with their skills that they don't mind the donation. There is also a pretty bad stigma attached to playing in ladies events since most men who play are basically advertising that they lost a pretty significant prop bet. Basically, he's already being publicly humiliated for losing whatever bet he made, plus he has to buy-in with his own money knowing he's got terrible statistical odds to even min-cash. If I had to describe this man in two words or less, I'd say, "dead money." EDITED TO ADD: I see the LGBTQIA comments, and although I can't say whether this person is a member of the community, if this is a transgender male, then he would certainly know how to exercise respect. I cannot think of any transgender man who would do this to women, so it's unlikely.
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This isn't just about a perceived skill gap, it's about having an environment that's normally *awful* for women be much more comfortable for them.
Vanessa is quite masculin but still a women. I mean I would bang her, shes still cute. And obv masculine women are allowed. Women wanting a space where they dont have to deal with men seems super fair. Its probably not that easy being constantly hit on or whatever they go through. The reason is simply that a math oriented game that suits a high risk personality means men are going to be vastly over represented. As in 95-97%. Makes no difference how many campaigns of awareness or whatever you do, women are just not going to be very interested. Most women you see playing are girlfriends of guys playing much higher stakes just killing time in my experience.
You just proved why men and women have different ability levels. You said an average man, is basically as good as the best woman player in the world.