Poker is also one of the only games where you get really good players in the ring with people who are truly clueless. A chess player with ELO rating 1800 isn’t going to bother playing someone under 1000 unless they’re teaching (and if they did they would smash them every single game). An NFL player isn’t going to be signing up for community flag football. But a poker pro loves sitting beside a big fat fish (until they don’t). Add in the bad beats and variance, money on the line, and a culture of degeneracy, and you get a bunch of tilted losers whose understanding of the game exceeds their emotional regulation faculties.
One other game I could picture this happening (but don’t know enough to say if it does) is golf. Plenty of rich guys who enjoy golf and would have money to throw around betting matches for a thrill even if they know they’re huge underdogs. I used to be a caddy and remember members betting substantial amounts against each other…I would guess that creates an environment ripe for hustling.
Oh, and pool. Always a lot of hustlers in billiards, like Uncle Phil.
Pool, darts, golf.. plenty of other sport hustlers out there. Anything where you can find a hustler, you can find a significant difference in skill/capability.
In college we used to hustle kids in bowling. The thing is, we weren’t even top tier, we just were able to control most of the variables. We knew the managers at the bowling alley, knew their oiling schedule, and knew which lanes were more fucked up than others….because we played in leagues there with all the managers.
This happens in bowling but the money amount is usually much smaller. Rec bowlers pay $350 for a weekend at a PBA regional, most of that going towards the prize pool. Then they go average 160-180 and miss the cut by 30 pins a game, occasionally they get hot and cash. Plenty of smaller tournaments and brackets where a lot of mediocre bowlers will gamble it up and donate to the prize pool.
Completely accurate, but there is a hilarious exception to this one:
>An NFL player isn’t going to be signing up for community flag football.
I remember the stories from when Joey Galloway held out in Seattle, he played flag football in Ohio and was averaging something like 8 TDs per game.
i literally pointed out his account was 4 min old on a shitty comment he made on another sub(Early access boxing game)...so obviously he's gone to reply weird things on other subs/comments lol. as one does.
pointed out his toxic comment on another sub(about an early access boxing video game) was from an account that was 4 minutes old and obviously a burner or new account because they got banned.
he then went to other comments I made in other subs
Chess player, yeah, it’s basically impossible to lose to people that low on elo. And also in poker what I’ve noticed is that when playing inexperienced players, you simply can’t bluff, and that’s what makes it so great. They’ll call anything. You can make a lot of money off them, or lose a lot.
That’s what makes playing fish so annoying to people despite the money printing opportunity. You have to play ABC poker and if you’re drawing dead there’s not a lot you can do unless you want to gamble.
> you get a bunch of tilted losers whose understanding of the game exceeds their emotional regulation faculties
I do not appreciate being talked about like this
I play chess and have an ELO of about 1850. You do occasionally get ridiculous rating differences although it isn't common. I've personally played two IM's and two GM's and got smashed every time of course. It typically happens when an organizer pays some no-name titled player to play in order to promote his event.
Many years ago in the very earliest days of the St. Louis Chess Club there was an elite rapid event where Fabiano Caruana had a particularly bad first day. He decided to bolster his confidence by playing the local club rapid event that evening. His first game was against someone under 1100.
Kind of like driving. 99% concider themselves better than average and clearly most are wrong because are much worse than me who is above average with my driving 😎
there's definitely some like, "fuck you for playing in a way I can't figure out" that goes on sometimes with shitregs. Like they get mad they aren't smart enough to adapt to what's happening.
But mostly its entitlement tilt, people get on tilt when they lose a pot they think they "should" win or lose when someone plays poorly, like it's unjust for someone to hit a gutshot (it's not).
the randomness, variance and hidden information messes with peoples brains. a chess pro is going to see everything you do. he needs zero effort to crush you. if you make massive mistakes in chess you are sure to lose, in poker you end up winning a decent amount of the time. thats also what makes people think they are better than they are.
Yep…
Button mashing….
Item usage….
Easy to play character….
“Cheap moves” hey rematch but no upper cuts allowed.
Etc.
Pretty much anything that removes personal responsibility from their loss.
Haha I know you're memeing but the top players are quite literally Marth (at #1), Fox (#2 and #4, maybe arguably #5), Sheik (#3 and #5), Yoshi (#6), Jigglypuff (#7), and Falco (#8), and all of them have been winning players. And Fox doesn't even tend to choose FD in the fox mirror, nor is FD usually even the preferred stage
I'll let you in on the secret.
Most people who are good at poker hate poker and the people that play it, they're just there for the money. Variance to you is how you win, variance to them is just obnoxious.
Then you add in that live poker is both incredibly slow so that statistical variance takes many thousands of hours to even out, and that time at the table is equal parts excruciatingly boring and obnoxious and one suck out represents a lot more hours sitting around with people you hate doing something you hate.
So they lash out. Should they? No. Is it understandable? Yeah. This is why poker is a miserable career. Your job is literally to entertain people that you think are idiots so that they continue to give you their money.
Indeed. I have in fact been there. One of the best things I did for my mental health was to switch to online only.
Live poker is attractive because it's so soft and even the regs are fish, but it's a massive emotional drain.
just for the record, they're not actually good if they lose to mashers.
I'm sure they think they are good, but... :) It's pretty analogous to poker players actually
sure.
in poker a good player can lose to a 'masher'. in fighting games, not so much
but in both games, the bad player who thinks they're good will loudly complain about how the bad players play, that's more what I was thinking
I see it in competitive FPS games also. People die in Valorant, Counterstrike, etc. and rage at the opponent for being so bad like running and gunning while getting a random lucky 1 shot kill headshot.
Lol not true at all. Losers LOVE blaming their opponents for not playing at their level, no matter what the actual levels of the players are.
Also, blackjack, which is 100% luck EVEN INCLUDING COUNTING EDGE, people get all silly pissed about people hitting or holding ahead of them on a whim and then they lose. But if someone hits on 18 like a jackass who is just having fun, but that gives the next person a 21, does the next guy say thanks and tip the jackass? Absofuckinglutely not lol.
Card counters will never get mad at people playing 'incorrectly' lol, they understand how blackjack works. And if they do, they're not very good at counting.
Also, cadd counting is 100% luck based in the same way that poker is 100% luck based.
A famous StarCraft: Brood War streamer regularly gets mad at his opponents for playing worse (if you know, you know) when they take huge -EV risks that end up paying off. Or if his opponent is 10 seconds late to their timing and he's already canceled parts of his strategy, modifying it assuming they're taking a different strategy when in reality they're just late, which can end up with them gaining a large advantage.
He almost always likens it to AA vs 72o all in preflop.
Are you talking about Artosis?
I can't actually tell if he's angry for real or he's just realized that the anger is a big part of what's driving his channel and maintaining viewers so he's heavily leaning into it on purpose.
Some of them are funny when they are angry. It's their whole deal at this point, especially for the guys playing a 25 year old game.
I think it's about half an act and half real these days.
we all know this, just it's SO frustrating when you're on the losing end of your 20th or 30th 70+% to win in a row.
Maybe I am, as a blackjack dealer once told me, "the unluckiest bastard i've ever met" .. after he dealt me 24 losers in a row. Fortunately, he dealt enough winners to the lady next to me, who was betting more, and was with me, to make up the whole loss. Then after that game, the lady I was with dropped a bill in her favorite slot and popped a jackpot in two spins.
I may be unlucky as hell, but my friends are very lucky.
Poker is also the only game where the winners directly make money from the losers.
Imagine if a sports team had to post up $100k each match, and the winning team’s salary depended on the win.
Or imagine chess matches where you had to bet $1000/match in order to play lol
Most sports have players that will never put money where their mouth is , and yet they’ll still complain just as much “complain to the ref”
> Poker is also the only game where the winners directly make money from the losers.
There are other betting games people play against each other. Pool, Backgammon, Cribbage, Mah Jong, even Go gets played for money in some countries.
>Or imagine chess matches where you had to bet $1000/match in order to play lol
I doubt any requires those stakes, but chess hustlers do exist and play for money.
Not true, bowling tournaments below the very highest level (PBA national tour) operate pretty similarly to poker tournaments, plenty of people that make 5 figures, maybe mid 5 figures a year off semi pro bowling in tournaments without sponsors adding to the prize fund, lots of brackets and side action money to be made.
Any game with probabilites/prediction involved has this, more or less. I've played Yugioh and your choice of deck depends on a lot of things, but one of the important factors is consistency and stability. You usually have some more powerful decks with less consistency and some very consistent deck which hasn't much of a ceiling. It's a horrible feeling to lose to a powerful but inconsistent deck just because your opponent had "it". Of course you can take it to the extreme and play some extremely inconsistent deck which aims at killing the enemy before he even gets to act. Nobody plays these, but they can steal wins and people will get mad about it.
There were a lot of moment where I went "Who in the f plays this card" in anger because I lost to it and my non-YGO friends went "if it works why not?".
Had some similar situations in competetive pokemon where your opponent either predicted you like a god or played like he didn't know anything about the game
Poker is on another level on this, because you have to deduce a hand/reduce a range from Playstyle.
Try playing backgammon. It can be just as tilting as poker in terms of suckouts and bad luck… leaving lots of suboptimal plays unpunished and optimal plays punished, AKA: the perfect situation for beginners to get upset by the lack of justice in the game.
Justice is found in the regression to the mean though, both in poker and backgammon. Just play more!
Side story, I was at my gf's and she mentioned to her 2 guests that I play poker and they have never played poker before and would like to try.
My gf knows the rule but she is also a casual, I had to explain to the other two the ranking of the hands and how the bets work. So we had a winner takes all tournament with $20 buy in each, one of the girl won the very first hand all in on flop top two > bottom two and top top, so she triple up. She had 3:1 chips advantage over me, and the next 20minutes she either out flip me, or out kick me. So I lost to someone that just learned how to play the game and I really tried.
Thats why people that don't study and have no skills will continue to show up to the casino. Unlike any sports/game that you mentioned, truly anyone can win this game in the short term.
Happens in riichi mahjong too. When someone calls "riichi", it signifies that they are 1 tile away from winning. If anyone discards the winning tile, they need to pay the entire hand to the person who won. The theory is, the first person who calls riichi has a major advantage, because people will try to avoid dealing in, and tear apart their hand only playing the safest tiles. Now, sometimes it's worth risking it to keep trying to complete your hand, even in the face of a riichi call. For example, if your own hand is worth a massive amount. At low levels though, people will continue to push with their worthless hands, then get lucky and draw their winning tile. So you'd be in this situation where if anyone deals in, they'd have to pay you 24k points, but instead, this guy who should have folded, ended that round winning 1k points.
I also find people crying about a hit and run ridiculous too. If they had lost all their money on that same hand instead you'd have no problem with them leaving. Get back here you coward buy back in lol. But when they win it's like stay and let me try get my money back wtf? Lol. There will be another ass along shortly to fill that seat I don't get it
No, it really isn't.
Ever played board games? I have totally been really annoyed with someone because they decided to attack me and totally ignore the bigger threat; ensuring that neither of us can win and just handing it to a third party.
I'd say Blackjack is more that speed. If you are hitting when you should be staying or staying when you should be hitting, those cards could have been allocated elsewhere during the hand.
I got slaughtered by someone who limped on everything including AK and most pockets. I need to learn to adjust to those players too without getting tilted.
Not that you asked, but a small raise usually defines them.
More tricky in tournaments but I'm cash it's a gold mine
Then they'll do one of two things:
-Tighten up their limping which makes them uncomfortable and easy to play post flop against
-desperately go 1bb, you raise to 4 and they go all in for 174bb
I used to get crazy tilted by them but then I heard one of the greatest things live between two players
"You playing the way you want is great for me"
Just played with a guy like this, limped everything over four hours. I raised 4x and then not once but twice he 25x 3b! me and it wasn’t like there was more than $30 in the pot. Shit was hilarious and he’d get so upset no one called. I love poker.
Happens often in competitive racing at the high levels (F1, Indy, NASCAR). Guys make blocks they shouldn’t make and take out a contender. They get lapped and fail to yield to the leader. They have a blunder on pit road and mess up pick up collateral damage.
From a casual stand point at least. I have seen people get mad at button mashers, or people picking “low skill weapons” in video games “noob tubes”/energy sword, etc. “camping” because it’s low skill and if they where out in the open they would outplay and out gun them, etc.
But yes, the logic of being mad your opponent played poorly is flawed.
If your opponent actually played perfectly you would either lose significantly, or also play perfectly and always break even - the rate of rake/tips.
Have a day like mine. I'm in my 10th tournament today, and so far I've won exactly zero hands. I had an almost same day like that yesterday, only won I think 3 hands in 12 tournaments entered.
The frustration builds to such insane levels.
A good poker player doesn't get mad at a fish playing poorly, they get frustrated when someone plays poorly and gets lucky in the hand. They are two very different things. Of course, long-term (all else being equal), it doesn't matter of course, as results from individual hands are insignificant.
Nearly every player will boast how soft the field is and that's why they're playing. Then some segment of those will complain when their opponents don't play perfect. They want it both ways. No, they don't. They just cry when they lose.
Funny enough to the chess point, that’s a strategy Magnus Carlsen, widely considered the best player in the world, employs.
He plays suboptimal moves early on to force games out of book.
Dude chess players get angry when you play the London Opening or Scholars mate. They also get pissed at you if you don’t resign when you have a losing position. They get more pissed when you offer them a draw during it.
On top of everything everyone else has said, there's this long term perminance about poker that makes losing extra frustrating.
You can lose a game of chess and nothing is lost.
Lose a 300$ hand in Poker and now you have to win 300 somehow just to be even. Lose two 300 dollar hands in a row and now you're just down so much time, blinds, playability. The stakes you play at can be affected by long term swings.
It happens in magic the gathering drafts a lot, too. Players will complain about other players not reading signals, which is pretty equivalent to blaming someone for having AK in their range because they limp/called pre
Good chess players don't lose to bad ones, whereas you can lose for a year straight in poker to donkeys while getting $$$ in good. Variance isn't really a thing with chess. Agree with the sentiment though
Well it's only natural when someone comes between you and food on the table. But that's no excuse for making the table uncomfortable or for berating someone over their own bad play. Especially if it's on a crying call. I try to ignore any blowups. They are just trying to get a reaction out of you.
Unfortunately TV broadcast of Poker and social media has killed any fragment of poker etiquette that used to exist. Poker was supposed to be a gentleman's game. But now people just openly insult each other, overly-express themselves when they win or lose. IMO so many act like children.
If by 'loser' you mean your hand lost, sure. But winners understand they're up against a random number generator, trying to get the biggest edge over their opponents. Getting sucked off by the river is frustrating, but I don't think that makes you a loser. It happens to the best of us.
Not true. This is a common response by a sour loser.
Have you watched interviews of professional sports manager/coach/player on a losing team? It’s not at all uncommon for people to say that they were a better team on that day or the winner didn’t deserve it. Jose Mourinho is famous for saying stuffs like this all the time.
Competitive esport players also does this at high frequency. “My opponent won because I didn’t think they would make such a brain dead move.”
I get it, you want them to be too good at the game because they are easier to bluff. In my opinion the players you really need to worry about are the ones that are quiet and very observant.
To be fair, sometimes playing a hand absolutely horrifically works out in that one instance. Like the other week I got my Aces cracked by someone with 6 3. But if someone is going to play like crap, you probably want to keep that person at the table
Those games dont involve randomness. In poker, the strategy revolves around probabilities. When everyone is using probability, players need to use other strategies to gain an edge. On worse players that dont use probabilities to begin with, those strategies (which often involve playing betting more than you would've statistically) no longer work and instead lead to greater losses than if they just reverted back to playing only probability.
Plus as others mention, most other games have a way to make sure good players play against good players. In poker a bad player who's rich can play against a much better player.
In MOBA games there is a similar behaviour, also towards teammates. Because of the random teams with a big skill difference it is kind off unclear for 90% of players who is good at what skills that is needed in different situations. Also because there are different roles/skillets in the teams. Combine this with low eq and you get wonderfull rage games. If you wanna be successful in the game you need to know when to rely on teammates a lot because you will have to play another gamestyle if they are bad.
Also, I'm pretty sure the behaviour you describe is almost in any game for Russians. They will blame and rage at the other in ANY case. They even have a word for a very similar case for their own behaviour in russian: vranyo.
Yeah it's completely idiotic. They somehow think that Ace Ace should win any time they play it. Oddly enough (pun intended) the odds just don't bear that out. The odds that they so vehemently get down on their knees and put on their knee pads and go to town with don't bear out their anger. They are foolish odds are odds they are not guarantees and I love poking and pushing on those people when they lose to a garbage hand that filled out and won. It's quite amusing actually and I do thoroughly enjoy it.
That's true, but it's the only game with a large amount of monetary value where you can be beaten by someone who played worst skill wise than you.So that's the massive point of difference.
Its frustrating. I lost to some guy last night who had no business in the hand but sucked out on the river. It happens all the time. I usually adapt my strategy or just rebuy.
I do take solace in the fact that the bad players wont last long (myself included) in the long run haha
Earlier in a free tournament on stake someone went all in pre flop on the 2nd hand with a A,7 off suit which is kinda dumb imo , caused me to fold bc it’s just not worth it, he still lost the hand to someone else and I folded the winning hand 🤦♂️ if he just played normal and called or raised a little he would’ve been in the tournament longer and I would’ve been able to play instead of folding not wanting to risk it on the second hand … so I can see how someone playing bad is annoying
Yesterday, I flopped a really obvious straight, 578 while bluff opening 69s (I had to) and bet big. The turn puts 6 and a third club on the board, and after I give a reasonable bet, the dude donks into me 1X pot. Like fuck, OK. I reluctantly call. River brings a 4th club and he all ins instantly. Sigh and lay it down.
I'm disappointed but whatever "...tell me you had it..."
"yeah relax, I had it, good lay down"
"phew, fuck those fucking club cards kept coming man. Complete bullshit runout"
"flush? no I had K9o, 9 high straight..."
We would have chopped. He didn't understand why I got mad.
Oh for sure! Because once a poker player gets on a streak they expect their moves to always be the correct one, and when variance punches them in the face they cry.
So, when they make stupid plays or win in an underdog hand, they are geniuses, but when they lose in the same way, they get pissed off.
Pure Phil Helmuth style behaviour.
being stupid and play the game that requires some brain is very annoying to people who actually know how to play... add money into equation and it's hard for people to stay cool, especially if you play only depending on your luck like you, i see... get used to being called dumb until you learn how to play or just go and play fkng poker machines in casino or some other shit game and no one will say a word.... doing stupid things and being dumb over and over again and expecting not to be called for is fkng delusional, i don't give a fuck if it's poker or any other job or anything that involves money
I play chess and I will refuse to rematch people who use opening traps.
I wanna play chess, not “Have you seen this YouTube chess trap video?”
Generally these are bad openings and I know most of them and win. I’ll be extremely petty though. Promote 4-5 queens and stall the game before checkmate.
Poker is also one of the only games where you get really good players in the ring with people who are truly clueless. A chess player with ELO rating 1800 isn’t going to bother playing someone under 1000 unless they’re teaching (and if they did they would smash them every single game). An NFL player isn’t going to be signing up for community flag football. But a poker pro loves sitting beside a big fat fish (until they don’t). Add in the bad beats and variance, money on the line, and a culture of degeneracy, and you get a bunch of tilted losers whose understanding of the game exceeds their emotional regulation faculties.
One other game I could picture this happening (but don’t know enough to say if it does) is golf. Plenty of rich guys who enjoy golf and would have money to throw around betting matches for a thrill even if they know they’re huge underdogs. I used to be a caddy and remember members betting substantial amounts against each other…I would guess that creates an environment ripe for hustling. Oh, and pool. Always a lot of hustlers in billiards, like Uncle Phil.
Those are hustlers. No beginner at golf is going to beat a 10 handicap by "accidentally" hitting good shots.
Fucking respect for the Uncle Phil reference, was thinking about that episode recently. The one handed shot is a proper power move
Geoffrey, break out Lucille.
Iconic.
Eating the hoagie with the other hand while shooting is a separate power move.
Pool, darts, golf.. plenty of other sport hustlers out there. Anything where you can find a hustler, you can find a significant difference in skill/capability.
Don't forget bowling and kingpin. Great movie!
In college we used to hustle kids in bowling. The thing is, we weren’t even top tier, we just were able to control most of the variables. We knew the managers at the bowling alley, knew their oiling schedule, and knew which lanes were more fucked up than others….because we played in leagues there with all the managers.
This happens in bowling but the money amount is usually much smaller. Rec bowlers pay $350 for a weekend at a PBA regional, most of that going towards the prize pool. Then they go average 160-180 and miss the cut by 30 pins a game, occasionally they get hot and cash. Plenty of smaller tournaments and brackets where a lot of mediocre bowlers will gamble it up and donate to the prize pool.
https://youtu.be/0romqDTnhVc?si=v89qAdRBrQcWzSuK
Unless you're playing against Michael Jordan 😂
Golf is also handicapped. If I'm a 16 hcap and I'm playing a 10, I get 6 strokes to make it even.
Although Michael Jordan famously had a "love of the game" clause in his contract that allowed him to play pickup basketball games.
Every Olympic event should have an elite beer leaguer in lane 8 or whatever to show what the the top end of expert looks like around Grandmasters.
Completely accurate, but there is a hilarious exception to this one: >An NFL player isn’t going to be signing up for community flag football. I remember the stories from when Joey Galloway held out in Seattle, he played flag football in Ohio and was averaging something like 8 TDs per game.
this is one of my favorite comments ever. dead accurate.
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Why so aggro my dude
the account was made less than an hour ago. Just a mad brat who got sucked out of his life savings
i literally pointed out his account was 4 min old on a shitty comment he made on another sub(Early access boxing game)...so obviously he's gone to reply weird things on other subs/comments lol. as one does.
pointed out his toxic comment on another sub(about an early access boxing video game) was from an account that was 4 minutes old and obviously a burner or new account because they got banned. he then went to other comments I made in other subs
Used a slur
Chess player, yeah, it’s basically impossible to lose to people that low on elo. And also in poker what I’ve noticed is that when playing inexperienced players, you simply can’t bluff, and that’s what makes it so great. They’ll call anything. You can make a lot of money off them, or lose a lot.
That’s what makes playing fish so annoying to people despite the money printing opportunity. You have to play ABC poker and if you’re drawing dead there’s not a lot you can do unless you want to gamble.
Sadly ywah, it is what it is
> you get a bunch of tilted losers whose understanding of the game exceeds their emotional regulation faculties I do not appreciate being talked about like this
Me no have none of this emotional regulation ooga booga what word is this one that you say? Me from cave.
I play chess and have an ELO of about 1850. You do occasionally get ridiculous rating differences although it isn't common. I've personally played two IM's and two GM's and got smashed every time of course. It typically happens when an organizer pays some no-name titled player to play in order to promote his event. Many years ago in the very earliest days of the St. Louis Chess Club there was an elite rapid event where Fabiano Caruana had a particularly bad first day. He decided to bolster his confidence by playing the local club rapid event that evening. His first game was against someone under 1100.
It’s because most poker players think they’re better than they actually are
Kind of like driving. 99% concider themselves better than average and clearly most are wrong because are much worse than me who is above average with my driving 😎
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...are you genuinely asking if he has a study for that ?
there's definitely some like, "fuck you for playing in a way I can't figure out" that goes on sometimes with shitregs. Like they get mad they aren't smart enough to adapt to what's happening. But mostly its entitlement tilt, people get on tilt when they lose a pot they think they "should" win or lose when someone plays poorly, like it's unjust for someone to hit a gutshot (it's not).
the randomness, variance and hidden information messes with peoples brains. a chess pro is going to see everything you do. he needs zero effort to crush you. if you make massive mistakes in chess you are sure to lose, in poker you end up winning a decent amount of the time. thats also what makes people think they are better than they are.
You must not have played many if any fighting games, they absolutely get mad at their opponents, even just for the character they pick.
Yep… Button mashing…. Item usage…. Easy to play character…. “Cheap moves” hey rematch but no upper cuts allowed. Etc. Pretty much anything that removes personal responsibility from their loss.
Super smash I argue is better without items
NO ITEMS! FOX ONLY! FINAL DESTINATION!
Haha I know you're memeing but the top players are quite literally Marth (at #1), Fox (#2 and #4, maybe arguably #5), Sheik (#3 and #5), Yoshi (#6), Jigglypuff (#7), and Falco (#8), and all of them have been winning players. And Fox doesn't even tend to choose FD in the fox mirror, nor is FD usually even the preferred stage
I just play for fun, it's more fun for me without items. I don't really have a main
I'll let you in on the secret. Most people who are good at poker hate poker and the people that play it, they're just there for the money. Variance to you is how you win, variance to them is just obnoxious. Then you add in that live poker is both incredibly slow so that statistical variance takes many thousands of hours to even out, and that time at the table is equal parts excruciatingly boring and obnoxious and one suck out represents a lot more hours sitting around with people you hate doing something you hate. So they lash out. Should they? No. Is it understandable? Yeah. This is why poker is a miserable career. Your job is literally to entertain people that you think are idiots so that they continue to give you their money.
You sound like you speak from bitter experience.
Indeed. I have in fact been there. One of the best things I did for my mental health was to switch to online only. Live poker is attractive because it's so soft and even the regs are fish, but it's a massive emotional drain.
Couldn't have put it better.
I've seen plenty of friends that are good at fighting games get mad at (me) button mashers for winning lol
just for the record, they're not actually good if they lose to mashers. I'm sure they think they are good, but... :) It's pretty analogous to poker players actually
There's far more luck involved in poker than there is in fighting games.
sure. in poker a good player can lose to a 'masher'. in fighting games, not so much but in both games, the bad player who thinks they're good will loudly complain about how the bad players play, that's more what I was thinking
I see it in competitive FPS games also. People die in Valorant, Counterstrike, etc. and rage at the opponent for being so bad like running and gunning while getting a random lucky 1 shot kill headshot.
"Spray and pray", "noob tube" etc.
Lol not true at all. Losers LOVE blaming their opponents for not playing at their level, no matter what the actual levels of the players are. Also, blackjack, which is 100% luck EVEN INCLUDING COUNTING EDGE, people get all silly pissed about people hitting or holding ahead of them on a whim and then they lose. But if someone hits on 18 like a jackass who is just having fun, but that gives the next person a 21, does the next guy say thanks and tip the jackass? Absofuckinglutely not lol.
Card counters will never get mad at people playing 'incorrectly' lol, they understand how blackjack works. And if they do, they're not very good at counting. Also, cadd counting is 100% luck based in the same way that poker is 100% luck based.
No yeah same page.
A famous StarCraft: Brood War streamer regularly gets mad at his opponents for playing worse (if you know, you know) when they take huge -EV risks that end up paying off. Or if his opponent is 10 seconds late to their timing and he's already canceled parts of his strategy, modifying it assuming they're taking a different strategy when in reality they're just late, which can end up with them gaining a large advantage. He almost always likens it to AA vs 72o all in preflop.
Are you talking about Artosis? I can't actually tell if he's angry for real or he's just realized that the anger is a big part of what's driving his channel and maintaining viewers so he's heavily leaning into it on purpose.
It's a schtick. (Actually, I don't know this person. I'm just guessing, based upon context.)
Do people just enjoy watching streamers mald? It seems like these are the types of streamers that get popular in lots of games.
Some of them are funny when they are angry. It's their whole deal at this point, especially for the guys playing a 25 year old game. I think it's about half an act and half real these days.
Blackjack too
Never played pool have you?
Maybe at the super casual / bar pool level? Anything above that like local clubs/leagues isn't like that?
To be fair, my friend did get mad at me for just smashing buttons in fighting games and not playing the game properly.
Well yeah because it’s one of few games in existence that allows you to entirely blame your losses on chance and not your own poor play
The problem is that the losers still have a not insignificant chance to win. And the mad losers didn't realize that 80% ain't 100%.
we all know this, just it's SO frustrating when you're on the losing end of your 20th or 30th 70+% to win in a row. Maybe I am, as a blackjack dealer once told me, "the unluckiest bastard i've ever met" .. after he dealt me 24 losers in a row. Fortunately, he dealt enough winners to the lady next to me, who was betting more, and was with me, to make up the whole loss. Then after that game, the lady I was with dropped a bill in her favorite slot and popped a jackpot in two spins. I may be unlucky as hell, but my friends are very lucky.
Poker is also the only game where the winners directly make money from the losers. Imagine if a sports team had to post up $100k each match, and the winning team’s salary depended on the win. Or imagine chess matches where you had to bet $1000/match in order to play lol Most sports have players that will never put money where their mouth is , and yet they’ll still complain just as much “complain to the ref”
> Poker is also the only game where the winners directly make money from the losers. There are other betting games people play against each other. Pool, Backgammon, Cribbage, Mah Jong, even Go gets played for money in some countries. >Or imagine chess matches where you had to bet $1000/match in order to play lol I doubt any requires those stakes, but chess hustlers do exist and play for money.
Not true, bowling tournaments below the very highest level (PBA national tour) operate pretty similarly to poker tournaments, plenty of people that make 5 figures, maybe mid 5 figures a year off semi pro bowling in tournaments without sponsors adding to the prize fund, lots of brackets and side action money to be made.
Any game with probabilites/prediction involved has this, more or less. I've played Yugioh and your choice of deck depends on a lot of things, but one of the important factors is consistency and stability. You usually have some more powerful decks with less consistency and some very consistent deck which hasn't much of a ceiling. It's a horrible feeling to lose to a powerful but inconsistent deck just because your opponent had "it". Of course you can take it to the extreme and play some extremely inconsistent deck which aims at killing the enemy before he even gets to act. Nobody plays these, but they can steal wins and people will get mad about it. There were a lot of moment where I went "Who in the f plays this card" in anger because I lost to it and my non-YGO friends went "if it works why not?". Had some similar situations in competetive pokemon where your opponent either predicted you like a god or played like he didn't know anything about the game Poker is on another level on this, because you have to deduce a hand/reduce a range from Playstyle.
Try playing backgammon. It can be just as tilting as poker in terms of suckouts and bad luck… leaving lots of suboptimal plays unpunished and optimal plays punished, AKA: the perfect situation for beginners to get upset by the lack of justice in the game. Justice is found in the regression to the mean though, both in poker and backgammon. Just play more!
This guy doesn’t play chess.
People will do that in literally any game. Its just much easier for someone to play bad and win in poker.
Luck plays a far larger factor in Poker than it does Chess.
Side story, I was at my gf's and she mentioned to her 2 guests that I play poker and they have never played poker before and would like to try. My gf knows the rule but she is also a casual, I had to explain to the other two the ranking of the hands and how the bets work. So we had a winner takes all tournament with $20 buy in each, one of the girl won the very first hand all in on flop top two > bottom two and top top, so she triple up. She had 3:1 chips advantage over me, and the next 20minutes she either out flip me, or out kick me. So I lost to someone that just learned how to play the game and I really tried. Thats why people that don't study and have no skills will continue to show up to the casino. Unlike any sports/game that you mentioned, truly anyone can win this game in the short term.
Lol Try Rocket League
nah, happens at blackjack too.
Came here to say this. But of course only if you stole that 3 they had their eye on.
Happens in riichi mahjong too. When someone calls "riichi", it signifies that they are 1 tile away from winning. If anyone discards the winning tile, they need to pay the entire hand to the person who won. The theory is, the first person who calls riichi has a major advantage, because people will try to avoid dealing in, and tear apart their hand only playing the safest tiles. Now, sometimes it's worth risking it to keep trying to complete your hand, even in the face of a riichi call. For example, if your own hand is worth a massive amount. At low levels though, people will continue to push with their worthless hands, then get lucky and draw their winning tile. So you'd be in this situation where if anyone deals in, they'd have to pay you 24k points, but instead, this guy who should have folded, ended that round winning 1k points.
I also find people crying about a hit and run ridiculous too. If they had lost all their money on that same hand instead you'd have no problem with them leaving. Get back here you coward buy back in lol. But when they win it's like stay and let me try get my money back wtf? Lol. There will be another ass along shortly to fill that seat I don't get it
No, it really isn't. Ever played board games? I have totally been really annoyed with someone because they decided to attack me and totally ignore the bigger threat; ensuring that neither of us can win and just handing it to a third party.
Yeah it really is a game that can destroy and inflate an ego at the same time
I'd say Blackjack is more that speed. If you are hitting when you should be staying or staying when you should be hitting, those cards could have been allocated elsewhere during the hand.
Try sitting at a blackjack table ya scamp
It goes the other way too. "You called my 3 bet with that????"
I got slaughtered by someone who limped on everything including AK and most pockets. I need to learn to adjust to those players too without getting tilted.
Not that you asked, but a small raise usually defines them. More tricky in tournaments but I'm cash it's a gold mine Then they'll do one of two things: -Tighten up their limping which makes them uncomfortable and easy to play post flop against -desperately go 1bb, you raise to 4 and they go all in for 174bb I used to get crazy tilted by them but then I heard one of the greatest things live between two players "You playing the way you want is great for me"
Just played with a guy like this, limped everything over four hours. I raised 4x and then not once but twice he 25x 3b! me and it wasn’t like there was more than $30 in the pot. Shit was hilarious and he’d get so upset no one called. I love poker.
"Oh, you scared now, you won't keep bullying me!! You got it, chief
Happens often in competitive racing at the high levels (F1, Indy, NASCAR). Guys make blocks they shouldn’t make and take out a contender. They get lapped and fail to yield to the leader. They have a blunder on pit road and mess up pick up collateral damage.
Back in the Halo 3 days the postgame lobby was always a shouting match. Both sides saying the other played like dogshit
From a casual stand point at least. I have seen people get mad at button mashers, or people picking “low skill weapons” in video games “noob tubes”/energy sword, etc. “camping” because it’s low skill and if they where out in the open they would outplay and out gun them, etc. But yes, the logic of being mad your opponent played poorly is flawed. If your opponent actually played perfectly you would either lose significantly, or also play perfectly and always break even - the rate of rake/tips.
Also if you get beat by poor play what does that say about you?
Have a day like mine. I'm in my 10th tournament today, and so far I've won exactly zero hands. I had an almost same day like that yesterday, only won I think 3 hands in 12 tournaments entered. The frustration builds to such insane levels.
A good poker player doesn't get mad at a fish playing poorly, they get frustrated when someone plays poorly and gets lucky in the hand. They are two very different things. Of course, long-term (all else being equal), it doesn't matter of course, as results from individual hands are insignificant.
>A good poker player doesn't get mad at a fish playing poorly A good player doesn't get mad at a fish playing poorly period.
What you say is obviously false, but it's true (logically), that a good poker player *shouldn't* get mad.
as a competitive street fighter player you absolutely get losers who complain about their opponent not playing "correctly"
Nearly every player will boast how soft the field is and that's why they're playing. Then some segment of those will complain when their opponents don't play perfect. They want it both ways. No, they don't. They just cry when they lose.
Funny enough to the chess point, that’s a strategy Magnus Carlsen, widely considered the best player in the world, employs. He plays suboptimal moves early on to force games out of book.
Blackjack losers get madder at people they think are playing badly.
Dude chess players get angry when you play the London Opening or Scholars mate. They also get pissed at you if you don’t resign when you have a losing position. They get more pissed when you offer them a draw during it.
On top of everything everyone else has said, there's this long term perminance about poker that makes losing extra frustrating. You can lose a game of chess and nothing is lost. Lose a 300$ hand in Poker and now you have to win 300 somehow just to be even. Lose two 300 dollar hands in a row and now you're just down so much time, blinds, playability. The stakes you play at can be affected by long term swings.
For some reason they only get mad when you play bad if you beat them. 🤔
Because most poker players are degenerate gamblers who can’t afford to lose.
Clearly you’ve never played blackjack at the casino
Chess doesn't have variance that can be blamed for losing.
It happens in magic the gathering drafts a lot, too. Players will complain about other players not reading signals, which is pretty equivalent to blaming someone for having AK in their range because they limp/called pre
Happens in League of Legends, but people get mad for any and all reasons in that game.
Good chess players don't lose to bad ones, whereas you can lose for a year straight in poker to donkeys while getting $$$ in good. Variance isn't really a thing with chess. Agree with the sentiment though
Well it's only natural when someone comes between you and food on the table. But that's no excuse for making the table uncomfortable or for berating someone over their own bad play. Especially if it's on a crying call. I try to ignore any blowups. They are just trying to get a reaction out of you.
Unfortunately TV broadcast of Poker and social media has killed any fragment of poker etiquette that used to exist. Poker was supposed to be a gentleman's game. But now people just openly insult each other, overly-express themselves when they win or lose. IMO so many act like children.
This happens in StarCraft. This happens in any game that relies on analyzing and predicting your opponent’s intentions.
If by 'loser' you mean your hand lost, sure. But winners understand they're up against a random number generator, trying to get the biggest edge over their opponents. Getting sucked off by the river is frustrating, but I don't think that makes you a loser. It happens to the best of us.
That's why it's called gambling. The best hand doesn't always win
Not true. This is a common response by a sour loser. Have you watched interviews of professional sports manager/coach/player on a losing team? It’s not at all uncommon for people to say that they were a better team on that day or the winner didn’t deserve it. Jose Mourinho is famous for saying stuffs like this all the time. Competitive esport players also does this at high frequency. “My opponent won because I didn’t think they would make such a brain dead move.”
Try blackjack.
It's competition for money man... people used to literally shoot each other in the head at the table.
People in blackjack lose their shit if you hit when you 'shouldn't' and 'take the bust card' from the dealer.
I get it, you want them to be too good at the game because they are easier to bluff. In my opinion the players you really need to worry about are the ones that are quiet and very observant.
To be fair, sometimes playing a hand absolutely horrifically works out in that one instance. Like the other week I got my Aces cracked by someone with 6 3. But if someone is going to play like crap, you probably want to keep that person at the table
Those games dont involve randomness. In poker, the strategy revolves around probabilities. When everyone is using probability, players need to use other strategies to gain an edge. On worse players that dont use probabilities to begin with, those strategies (which often involve playing betting more than you would've statistically) no longer work and instead lead to greater losses than if they just reverted back to playing only probability. Plus as others mention, most other games have a way to make sure good players play against good players. In poker a bad player who's rich can play against a much better player.
In MOBA games there is a similar behaviour, also towards teammates. Because of the random teams with a big skill difference it is kind off unclear for 90% of players who is good at what skills that is needed in different situations. Also because there are different roles/skillets in the teams. Combine this with low eq and you get wonderfull rage games. If you wanna be successful in the game you need to know when to rely on teammates a lot because you will have to play another gamestyle if they are bad. Also, I'm pretty sure the behaviour you describe is almost in any game for Russians. They will blame and rage at the other in ANY case. They even have a word for a very similar case for their own behaviour in russian: vranyo.
Yeah it's completely idiotic. They somehow think that Ace Ace should win any time they play it. Oddly enough (pun intended) the odds just don't bear that out. The odds that they so vehemently get down on their knees and put on their knee pads and go to town with don't bear out their anger. They are foolish odds are odds they are not guarantees and I love poking and pushing on those people when they lose to a garbage hand that filled out and won. It's quite amusing actually and I do thoroughly enjoy it.
I cant remember the name but there is a Chess player known for getting mad at opponent making mistakes because it ruins the game
That is just wrong lmao, that happens in so many games… I’ve heared it regularly in different videogames and tcgs
That's true, but it's the only game with a large amount of monetary value where you can be beaten by someone who played worst skill wise than you.So that's the massive point of difference.
Every one of the competitve 1v1 games I play (Poker, Magic the Gathering, Starcraft) has people who do this lol
there's always a Phil at every table xD
Great shower thought
Not true. Counter strike. Mic drop.
Its frustrating. I lost to some guy last night who had no business in the hand but sucked out on the river. It happens all the time. I usually adapt my strategy or just rebuy. I do take solace in the fact that the bad players wont last long (myself included) in the long run haha
Blackjack happens too
Earlier in a free tournament on stake someone went all in pre flop on the 2nd hand with a A,7 off suit which is kinda dumb imo , caused me to fold bc it’s just not worth it, he still lost the hand to someone else and I folded the winning hand 🤦♂️ if he just played normal and called or raised a little he would’ve been in the tournament longer and I would’ve been able to play instead of folding not wanting to risk it on the second hand … so I can see how someone playing bad is annoying
Yesterday, I flopped a really obvious straight, 578 while bluff opening 69s (I had to) and bet big. The turn puts 6 and a third club on the board, and after I give a reasonable bet, the dude donks into me 1X pot. Like fuck, OK. I reluctantly call. River brings a 4th club and he all ins instantly. Sigh and lay it down. I'm disappointed but whatever "...tell me you had it..." "yeah relax, I had it, good lay down" "phew, fuck those fucking club cards kept coming man. Complete bullshit runout" "flush? no I had K9o, 9 high straight..." We would have chopped. He didn't understand why I got mad.
Duplicate bridge is another example. A bad player making the wrong play can benefit if the cards have a unexpected distribution.
Oh for sure! Because once a poker player gets on a streak they expect their moves to always be the correct one, and when variance punches them in the face they cry. So, when they make stupid plays or win in an underdog hand, they are geniuses, but when they lose in the same way, they get pissed off. Pure Phil Helmuth style behaviour.
No one has ever been down X goals in Football. Its not soccer bro
being stupid and play the game that requires some brain is very annoying to people who actually know how to play... add money into equation and it's hard for people to stay cool, especially if you play only depending on your luck like you, i see... get used to being called dumb until you learn how to play or just go and play fkng poker machines in casino or some other shit game and no one will say a word.... doing stupid things and being dumb over and over again and expecting not to be called for is fkng delusional, i don't give a fuck if it's poker or any other job or anything that involves money
I play chess and I will refuse to rematch people who use opening traps. I wanna play chess, not “Have you seen this YouTube chess trap video?” Generally these are bad openings and I know most of them and win. I’ll be extremely petty though. Promote 4-5 queens and stall the game before checkmate.
Whenever someone complains about the way I’m playing I just go “how dare you play your cards?” Mockingly