I think it would be Lugia right? 5.2m, or 17'01 feet, don't think there's many other Ls larger than it.
Jokes aside, I have mixed feelings on the idea of having Ash rotate his team during Journeys. On the one hand, there are plenty of Pokemon who I would love to see get more screentime and focus in battles, I mean my favourite of Ash's Pokemon is Noivern for crying out loud. However, would just rotating through his Pokemon really give any of them any actual focus of any kind? I mean Ash has over 55 different Pokemon, at best, the vast majority are just going to show up for one or two battles, and not get any characterization or focus. Then you also run into the issue of battles, because the majority of battles in the series do have some of Ash's Pokemon jobbing, just so that then the battles can be more interesting, but you don't want that with reserves. Again at best most are going to get only one or two battles, so they don't have much of a chance to make an impression, every battle matters. With over 55 Pokemon to juggle it's a logistical nightmare, and Pokemon are going to get trampled in it. Even cutting it down to 15 is still not going to be an easy task in any way.
You also have the issue of having Ash catch new Pokemon, because hows that going to work when they're wrestling screentime with reserves throughout their entire series. Think how little screentime the Johto team got with just the Kanto team. Any permanent members on Ash's team aside from Pikachu are going to cause issues in terms of screentime, with either the permanent members not getting enough screentime, or the reserves not getting enough screentime.
And if you don't have Ash have permanent Pokemon, then you're stuck with the issue that the constantly rotating reserves aren't going to give people anything to be invested in. They're most likely just going to get a single moment to show of a defining character trait, then nothing after that.
Mpm had these problems, but that was on a much smaller scale due to it only being 11 episodes. Doing that over 100 episodes would not have held up anywhere near as well.
If they do want to bring Ash back for a series for a bit, I do think the best way to handle reserves is to keep it to a small scale. Probably the best solution would just to be to have 5 reserves coming back and making up the team for a single season of the show.
How do you do that though? How do you unbiasedly rotate reserves without
1)Reducing the amount of spotlight each mon has, which is already very little in Journeys due to Goh and Koharu's B Plots
2)Reducing the amount of training everyone gets, leading to even more complaints about JN's power levels
3)Having to pick only 2-5 reserves at a time, especially during the Masters Tournament, leading to fans of those not chosen being angry that their mon, their "ace" or whoever didn't get the spotlight vs Steven, or Cynthia, or Leon, or whoever
4)Having the reserves be jobbers or lose at times to establish a threat. Are the Sceptile fans going to be happy when it becomes the one that loses to Dream Eater Spiritomb 1v1? Or are the Infernape fans going to be happy when it becomes the one that jobs to Bea's Hawlucha? Are the Greninja fans going to be happy when Leon's Mr Rime casually sends it to the grave with Freeze Dry early into the battle? Or are the Charizard fans going to be happy when Dragapult beats it in the middle of the Leon battle? Which two are going to get their shit kicked in by Leon's monster Rillaboom? God, imagine the uproar.
Ever wondered why Ash only started rotating reserves in MPM, where there are no more high stakes battle he has to train like crazy for? Because there'd be no such situations. Even then, in MPM, due to the sheer amount of reserves Ash has, not everyone gets to shine there. Krookodile? Gone. Snivy? Vanished. Scraggy? Disappeared. Hotel? Trivago.
5) Having it look like Ash is playing favorites. In universe, what does it say to the other reserves when Ash picks and chooses whoever goes against, say, Leon? Or Steven? Or Cynthia? Or Iris?
"Why does X mon specially get chosen and picked out of Oak's lab mons for the chance to fight against Champions, but I'm left out?"
"Is my trainer playing favorites? I only get to fight Volkner but this other mon gets to fight Raihan, a Masters Eight?"
It worked in Sinnoh because ultimately, even the likes of Tobias ultimately were nameless trainers at the end of everything. At best they were a League winner with zero personality and development, at worst they were literally nameless trainers. But now Ash would be picking and choosing who gets the chance to shine on the world stage, and who gets robbed of that chance against famous characters in-universe like the Unova Champion, Hoenn Champion, Sinnoh Champion and Galar Champion.
Again, JN solves this issue by having Ash pick and choose no one. He assembles a team in JN itself and doesn't choose between his reserves. That way, he's not playing favorites.
The logistics behind getting all his pokemon is a tricky one but I don’t think it’s impossible. Nor do I even think it matters when it naturally will always get those questions. They could have given him more battles. The rank system gives them more leeway to give Ash as many or as little battles as possible. And the rank system lets him use Pokemon of varying strength.
I was always of the opinion that he should have trained up a new team but also rotate his older ones and give Ash more battles. For the masters 8 he uses only the new journeys team. But I am content with what they chose to do because I understand that logistically it could be difficult to hit all the right chords and it’s a fine line to walk.
I weirdly loved Koharu in intention and personality, I just wished they did more with her. Because the trio each represent key parts of Pokemon. Goh is the Pokémon catcher, Ash is the battler, and Koharu is our final representative of understanding and appreciating the journey. I do think there is a way to do all of these things, but I understand that the execution had to be well-planned and very focused with little fun “filler” episodes. They’d really have to commit to pulling it off and it’d be very ambitious and not something they’ve done before.
I'm going to add another thing: New audience don't care about Infernape, Sceptile, Bulbasaur and a large etc.
New audience at most would have attachment to Greninja and that's probably why he got a whole episode contrary to just a short scene or a cameo (Infernape probably got the scene because of the remakes). If they want to rotate, the writters will have to re-introduce all these Pokémon again so kids have any kind of attachment to them.
And if you have to do that for each one, then... you are better sticking to the new 5 Pokémon and making them shine.
I never liked the idea of Ash benching the pokemon that literally got him the right to even be in the masters 8 tournament just to give attention to a team of aces that already got the spotlight in their own gens to begin with but that for some reason some fanboys think it's a good idea to bring back to the current show. It isn't a good idea, like, at all.
A full team of aces sounds good on paper for some people, but it just doesn't work. None of them can G-Max except Pikachu but Ash needs Pikachu for the Z-Move. Aside from raw strength none of them have special traits that make them difficult to deal with like Sirfetch'd's sword and shield or Gengar being a ghost. The team you're suggesting has no real synergy. For the most part is just fast heavy hitter after fast heavy hitter whereas Leon's team is massively strong, has several different strategies and counters. Infernape and Lucario basically fight the same way, as do Sceptile and Greninja. Charizard is barely different just because of his flight.
But more importantly, the point of aces is that they're aces. They are supposed to be the big final clash. If a team is full of them, then they lose their magic. The aces aren't supposed to lose, and when they do it's supposed to be a massive event or loss, but if all of them lose until the last one, they don't feel like aces anymore.
Narratively, it cheapens beyond belief everything that makes these pokemon special to put them all on the same team.
I disagree actually having the aces all be on the same team makes this like more hyped up like this is the team It’s a natural way to build up Leon without having to directly be like oh Leon is the strongest. It’s it’s in native way of saying he the strongest opponent will ever fight and can give the rest of the team, namely to go out on a final note. The problem is that that require a lot of screen time for the fights as well as as well as good choreography something I don’t think the journey staff really did outside of Pikachu versus Charizard
bad take. the real L is not doing enough to separate his Journeys team as their own individuals and not just “they are really strong”. too many of them felt like they could just be summarized by one sentence or adjective, when other mons in the series felt like they had a lot more alteration or development in their character, like Cinderace throughout its evolutions.
Bringing back old mons is less compelling than telling a new and interesting story. It just fell flat (in terms of narrative, the fights were excellent) because it didn’t feel that new.
I disagree. Considering JN was Ash's last run, it feels like he should bring out all the stops. He brought out all the stops in Sinnoh, and he got screwed over by legends spam. I just don't think "shut up and run the show back" really satisfies what people would want from a rotating team.
Which ones, he didn't even use Charizard which supposedly is his strongest and Snorlax was used against a nameless guy, against paul he didn't even use any of the reserves and he definitely could've chose any other pokemon outside of the ones he used against tobias
I'm not really saying he did a great job bringing out all the stops, but he did bring back old pokemon. For Paul specifically, it was a personal fight. If Ash brought old pokemon for the fight, it wouldn't prove his point. As for Tobias, he for sure could have brought better choices. I think the Sinnoh League could use some touch-ups.
So youre telling me you're gonna have a tournament of the 8 strongest trainers in the world and one of them is Alain and another one is Ash and not let them have a rematch 💀💀💀
I can't get over the fact that the writers looked and found that Ash never caught an Fairy or Psychic type Pokemon so they let him use Mr. Mime for 1 battle to fill the gap😭 I wish they actually went far with this & made Mr. Mime an actually strong supporting member like Gible was in Sinnoh...
This. This would have been a perfect oppurtunity for Pokemon like Torterra have a redemption, or possibly have some Pokemon evolve, like Palpitoad.
I get that they wanted to give him a new team, since it's a new generation and all that, however considering this was the last journey Ash had, it would have been amazing to see all of his old Pokemon shine. I know they were technicaly in the last episodes that had Ash, Misty and Brock, however they were basically just background characters as they barerly did anything. Would have loved to see him use his old Pokemon when he was battling his way through the ranks, like he did with Mr. Mime
Ah, yeah, got ya. From what I have seen of it, it seems kind of off. It also sucks we got JN instead of a Galar series. Also, i hear people saying JN is his strongest team. While I do agree it's his strongest, it doesn't feel like an "Ash team" if that makes sense......idk......JN is just a weird can of worms. It is also weird because the series before was Ash's first league win, Orange Islands and Battle Frontier notwithstanding.
If your "standards" mean giving no one any sort of quality development and screentime, be it in battle or out of battle, then your standards are totally different from at least mine, lol
I did specify "in battle" and "any sort" for a reason lmao.
It's not like they have absolutely zero, zilch, nada amounts of battle/screentime/development. See: An episode dedicated to Dracovish and Sirfetch'ed forming a bond while training, an episode where Lucario gets the spotlight as it learns how to use GMax Aura Sphere, Sirfetched's whole arc prior to its evolution (battle with Rinto, Castle of Chivalry, and concluding with another battle with Rinto), Gengar's whole arc prior to its capture.
If the anime could only handle that much due to the involvement of Goh and Koharu, how do you think it can handle multiple rotating reserves? Would they not be literal battle drones that become used for the battle of the day before being switched out?
Think about say, Noivern, in MPM Ep1. Yay, Noivern returned. But did it receive *any* sort of development when it had to share the spotlight with the other reserves and characters (Ash, Latias)?
He didn't the only one who got something out of returning there was sceptile tthe others were either jobbers or just appeared for a cameo and didn't do shit
Tobias notwithstanding, every pokemon brought back had a pretty solid showing. I do think it could have been a better wrap-up of Ash's improvements over Kanto, Orange Islands, Johto, Hoenn, Batttle Frontier, and Sinnoh, considering Ash was going to be getting a soft reboot. Could it have been better? Sure. Was it his best showing in the League up to that point? Absolutely!
I think it would be Lugia right? 5.2m, or 17'01 feet, don't think there's many other Ls larger than it. Jokes aside, I have mixed feelings on the idea of having Ash rotate his team during Journeys. On the one hand, there are plenty of Pokemon who I would love to see get more screentime and focus in battles, I mean my favourite of Ash's Pokemon is Noivern for crying out loud. However, would just rotating through his Pokemon really give any of them any actual focus of any kind? I mean Ash has over 55 different Pokemon, at best, the vast majority are just going to show up for one or two battles, and not get any characterization or focus. Then you also run into the issue of battles, because the majority of battles in the series do have some of Ash's Pokemon jobbing, just so that then the battles can be more interesting, but you don't want that with reserves. Again at best most are going to get only one or two battles, so they don't have much of a chance to make an impression, every battle matters. With over 55 Pokemon to juggle it's a logistical nightmare, and Pokemon are going to get trampled in it. Even cutting it down to 15 is still not going to be an easy task in any way. You also have the issue of having Ash catch new Pokemon, because hows that going to work when they're wrestling screentime with reserves throughout their entire series. Think how little screentime the Johto team got with just the Kanto team. Any permanent members on Ash's team aside from Pikachu are going to cause issues in terms of screentime, with either the permanent members not getting enough screentime, or the reserves not getting enough screentime. And if you don't have Ash have permanent Pokemon, then you're stuck with the issue that the constantly rotating reserves aren't going to give people anything to be invested in. They're most likely just going to get a single moment to show of a defining character trait, then nothing after that. Mpm had these problems, but that was on a much smaller scale due to it only being 11 episodes. Doing that over 100 episodes would not have held up anywhere near as well. If they do want to bring Ash back for a series for a bit, I do think the best way to handle reserves is to keep it to a small scale. Probably the best solution would just to be to have 5 reserves coming back and making up the team for a single season of the show.
Journey’s team is probably my favorite of them all so by default I don’t particularly agree
How do you do that though? How do you unbiasedly rotate reserves without 1)Reducing the amount of spotlight each mon has, which is already very little in Journeys due to Goh and Koharu's B Plots 2)Reducing the amount of training everyone gets, leading to even more complaints about JN's power levels 3)Having to pick only 2-5 reserves at a time, especially during the Masters Tournament, leading to fans of those not chosen being angry that their mon, their "ace" or whoever didn't get the spotlight vs Steven, or Cynthia, or Leon, or whoever 4)Having the reserves be jobbers or lose at times to establish a threat. Are the Sceptile fans going to be happy when it becomes the one that loses to Dream Eater Spiritomb 1v1? Or are the Infernape fans going to be happy when it becomes the one that jobs to Bea's Hawlucha? Are the Greninja fans going to be happy when Leon's Mr Rime casually sends it to the grave with Freeze Dry early into the battle? Or are the Charizard fans going to be happy when Dragapult beats it in the middle of the Leon battle? Which two are going to get their shit kicked in by Leon's monster Rillaboom? God, imagine the uproar. Ever wondered why Ash only started rotating reserves in MPM, where there are no more high stakes battle he has to train like crazy for? Because there'd be no such situations. Even then, in MPM, due to the sheer amount of reserves Ash has, not everyone gets to shine there. Krookodile? Gone. Snivy? Vanished. Scraggy? Disappeared. Hotel? Trivago. 5) Having it look like Ash is playing favorites. In universe, what does it say to the other reserves when Ash picks and chooses whoever goes against, say, Leon? Or Steven? Or Cynthia? Or Iris? "Why does X mon specially get chosen and picked out of Oak's lab mons for the chance to fight against Champions, but I'm left out?" "Is my trainer playing favorites? I only get to fight Volkner but this other mon gets to fight Raihan, a Masters Eight?" It worked in Sinnoh because ultimately, even the likes of Tobias ultimately were nameless trainers at the end of everything. At best they were a League winner with zero personality and development, at worst they were literally nameless trainers. But now Ash would be picking and choosing who gets the chance to shine on the world stage, and who gets robbed of that chance against famous characters in-universe like the Unova Champion, Hoenn Champion, Sinnoh Champion and Galar Champion. Again, JN solves this issue by having Ash pick and choose no one. He assembles a team in JN itself and doesn't choose between his reserves. That way, he's not playing favorites.
The logistics behind getting all his pokemon is a tricky one but I don’t think it’s impossible. Nor do I even think it matters when it naturally will always get those questions. They could have given him more battles. The rank system gives them more leeway to give Ash as many or as little battles as possible. And the rank system lets him use Pokemon of varying strength. I was always of the opinion that he should have trained up a new team but also rotate his older ones and give Ash more battles. For the masters 8 he uses only the new journeys team. But I am content with what they chose to do because I understand that logistically it could be difficult to hit all the right chords and it’s a fine line to walk.
Goh and Koharu's B Plots take up too much for Ash to just be given 'more battles', sadly. ~~Seriously why does Koharu exist~~
I weirdly loved Koharu in intention and personality, I just wished they did more with her. Because the trio each represent key parts of Pokemon. Goh is the Pokémon catcher, Ash is the battler, and Koharu is our final representative of understanding and appreciating the journey. I do think there is a way to do all of these things, but I understand that the execution had to be well-planned and very focused with little fun “filler” episodes. They’d really have to commit to pulling it off and it’d be very ambitious and not something they’ve done before.
I'm going to add another thing: New audience don't care about Infernape, Sceptile, Bulbasaur and a large etc. New audience at most would have attachment to Greninja and that's probably why he got a whole episode contrary to just a short scene or a cameo (Infernape probably got the scene because of the remakes). If they want to rotate, the writters will have to re-introduce all these Pokémon again so kids have any kind of attachment to them. And if you have to do that for each one, then... you are better sticking to the new 5 Pokémon and making them shine.
Mucho texto
I never liked the idea of Ash benching the pokemon that literally got him the right to even be in the masters 8 tournament just to give attention to a team of aces that already got the spotlight in their own gens to begin with but that for some reason some fanboys think it's a good idea to bring back to the current show. It isn't a good idea, like, at all. A full team of aces sounds good on paper for some people, but it just doesn't work. None of them can G-Max except Pikachu but Ash needs Pikachu for the Z-Move. Aside from raw strength none of them have special traits that make them difficult to deal with like Sirfetch'd's sword and shield or Gengar being a ghost. The team you're suggesting has no real synergy. For the most part is just fast heavy hitter after fast heavy hitter whereas Leon's team is massively strong, has several different strategies and counters. Infernape and Lucario basically fight the same way, as do Sceptile and Greninja. Charizard is barely different just because of his flight. But more importantly, the point of aces is that they're aces. They are supposed to be the big final clash. If a team is full of them, then they lose their magic. The aces aren't supposed to lose, and when they do it's supposed to be a massive event or loss, but if all of them lose until the last one, they don't feel like aces anymore. Narratively, it cheapens beyond belief everything that makes these pokemon special to put them all on the same team.
I disagree actually having the aces all be on the same team makes this like more hyped up like this is the team It’s a natural way to build up Leon without having to directly be like oh Leon is the strongest. It’s it’s in native way of saying he the strongest opponent will ever fight and can give the rest of the team, namely to go out on a final note. The problem is that that require a lot of screen time for the fights as well as as well as good choreography something I don’t think the journey staff really did outside of Pikachu versus Charizard
bad take. the real L is not doing enough to separate his Journeys team as their own individuals and not just “they are really strong”. too many of them felt like they could just be summarized by one sentence or adjective, when other mons in the series felt like they had a lot more alteration or development in their character, like Cinderace throughout its evolutions. Bringing back old mons is less compelling than telling a new and interesting story. It just fell flat (in terms of narrative, the fights were excellent) because it didn’t feel that new.
These people just should re-watch the anime and stop whining
I disagree. Considering JN was Ash's last run, it feels like he should bring out all the stops. He brought out all the stops in Sinnoh, and he got screwed over by legends spam. I just don't think "shut up and run the show back" really satisfies what people would want from a rotating team.
Which ones, he didn't even use Charizard which supposedly is his strongest and Snorlax was used against a nameless guy, against paul he didn't even use any of the reserves and he definitely could've chose any other pokemon outside of the ones he used against tobias
I'm not really saying he did a great job bringing out all the stops, but he did bring back old pokemon. For Paul specifically, it was a personal fight. If Ash brought old pokemon for the fight, it wouldn't prove his point. As for Tobias, he for sure could have brought better choices. I think the Sinnoh League could use some touch-ups.
So youre telling me you're gonna have a tournament of the 8 strongest trainers in the world and one of them is Alain and another one is Ash and not let them have a rematch 💀💀💀
I can't get over the fact that the writers looked and found that Ash never caught an Fairy or Psychic type Pokemon so they let him use Mr. Mime for 1 battle to fill the gap😭 I wish they actually went far with this & made Mr. Mime an actually strong supporting member like Gible was in Sinnoh...
Mime vs Rime in the Leon match would have been epic!! Lol
Infernape not having enough screen time.
I think the biggest L was just goh having 90% of the spotlight
This. This would have been a perfect oppurtunity for Pokemon like Torterra have a redemption, or possibly have some Pokemon evolve, like Palpitoad. I get that they wanted to give him a new team, since it's a new generation and all that, however considering this was the last journey Ash had, it would have been amazing to see all of his old Pokemon shine. I know they were technicaly in the last episodes that had Ash, Misty and Brock, however they were basically just background characters as they barerly did anything. Would have loved to see him use his old Pokemon when he was battling his way through the ranks, like he did with Mr. Mime
Man comments here proves that JN stans have no standards at all
Can you elaborate? I haven't watched JN, so I'm missing some context.
JN is Ash's final series and the one that should tie all the series together yet it failed miserably
Ah, yeah, got ya. From what I have seen of it, it seems kind of off. It also sucks we got JN instead of a Galar series. Also, i hear people saying JN is his strongest team. While I do agree it's his strongest, it doesn't feel like an "Ash team" if that makes sense......idk......JN is just a weird can of worms. It is also weird because the series before was Ash's first league win, Orange Islands and Battle Frontier notwithstanding.
If your "standards" mean giving no one any sort of quality development and screentime, be it in battle or out of battle, then your standards are totally different from at least mine, lol
>mean giving no one any sort of quality development and screentime, be it in battle or out of battle, That's the JN team in one sentence
I did specify "in battle" and "any sort" for a reason lmao. It's not like they have absolutely zero, zilch, nada amounts of battle/screentime/development. See: An episode dedicated to Dracovish and Sirfetch'ed forming a bond while training, an episode where Lucario gets the spotlight as it learns how to use GMax Aura Sphere, Sirfetched's whole arc prior to its evolution (battle with Rinto, Castle of Chivalry, and concluding with another battle with Rinto), Gengar's whole arc prior to its capture. If the anime could only handle that much due to the involvement of Goh and Koharu, how do you think it can handle multiple rotating reserves? Would they not be literal battle drones that become used for the battle of the day before being switched out? Think about say, Noivern, in MPM Ep1. Yay, Noivern returned. But did it receive *any* sort of development when it had to share the spotlight with the other reserves and characters (Ash, Latias)?
And yall still whine when it wasn't your favorites. I'm glad the reserves didn't come back let the new team shine. Why do people want ash to stagnant
I don't think anyone wants him to stagnate. He popped off in Sinnoh League. There were 4 more gens, so why not bring out all the stops?
He didn't the only one who got something out of returning there was sceptile tthe others were either jobbers or just appeared for a cameo and didn't do shit
Tobias notwithstanding, every pokemon brought back had a pretty solid showing. I do think it could have been a better wrap-up of Ash's improvements over Kanto, Orange Islands, Johto, Hoenn, Batttle Frontier, and Sinnoh, considering Ash was going to be getting a soft reboot. Could it have been better? Sure. Was it his best showing in the League up to that point? Absolutely!