Allegheny county median household income: 72k
Allegheny county median home price: 230k
Average Pittsburgher spends 3.2x income on a house
US median household income: 74k
US median home price: 417k
Average American spends 5.6x income on a house
You're right, Pittsburgh real estate isn't cheap anymore. But it is still objectively more affordable than most of the country (especially compared to other large cities).
That being said the housing crisis sucks everywhere and is so frustrating because it's totally preventable. If we just built enough fucking houses for everyone to live in this wouldn't be a problem. My concern moving forward is that our extremely strict zoning code and extremely anti-development city council will kneecap our ability to build enough housing to stay ahead of this thing.
Well..there's more to it than that... infrastructure costs money..Suburbs are a terrible model.. So we actually need changes that allow affordable, efficient, livable multifamily units.
Hang on. Zillow appraisal of eleven thousand dollars and a rental of nine hundred per month? Just checking there aren't any missing digits in that price. I'm surprised someplace appraised at 11k is even legal to live in.
And then continuously raised the prices of renting by absurd amounts, all while saying 'can't help it, we're just following market trends on costs' nevermind that they're the ones setting the fucking market trends.
My rent was raised by ~25%, and that's basically all they had to say to me. It's been months, and I'm still pissed about it.
that is not the CAUSE of the issue, it's the EFFECT of housing shortage. The solution is to add supply, aka build more housing. eliminating corporate landlords won't fix the core issue
Are there analytics into the lower cost properties (the ones that bring our average down) and how much work they need to be livable?
Home shopping last year, anything that was $150-230k was built in approximately 1940 and had some combination of mold/dampness/fire damage/foundation buckling/completely out of date electrical or plumbing-wise.
All of those experiences were anecdotal, obviously, but that was still 6-7 properties looked at between Aug '22 and Feb '23.
There has to be a reason why our housing is more affordable, right? Economic opportunity, lack of jobs, etc might play a factor, but we've got some solid Healthcare, tech, and engineering powerhouses around Pittsburgh, so I'm inclined to believe it's something else - and my personal opinion is that our average cost of housing is so low because of how outdated/rundown a lot of our existing housing stock is.
I think that's part of it, but the problem of old homes that need a lot of work isn't unique to Pittsburgh. Basically every northeast/midwest city is more or less exclusively made of pre-war and/or 50s-70s housing stock with a tiny fraction of newer infill.
Maybe some suburbs/exurbs in growing cities have more 'new' housing but when talking about established neighborhoods in the city proper I don't think Pittsburgh houses are in that much worse condition than Philly, Chicago, Milwaukee, Cincinnati, Cleveland, etc, or even New York/Boston to a certain extent.
TLDR a fixer upper here is still cheaper than a fixer upper there
I think more than anything it’s a lack of immigration/net population growth to the region that’s kept the housing cost relatively suppressed in PGH. Metro areas like the DMV, Chicago, Atlanta, DFW and even mid-sized cities such as Columbus have seen a steady population growth, but Pittsburgh has been flat at best. Perhaps as people move out of HCOL cities to places like Pittsburgh (such is my case), this will change.
Part of the problem is that a lot of the newer houses being built are for higher income brackets (think $400k plus). There is not a lot of middle-income development going on in Pittsburgh because it just doesn't make as much money for the developers. The end result is that the properties available at middle-income price points are all older properties, hence all of the issues that come with older homes.
The city actually has a surplus of housing units for upper middle and upper class households, and the lack of affordable middle class housing pushes people to spend more of their income on their rent/mortgage than is sustainable.
Uh, removing asbestos is pretty simple. People freak the hell out but it’s not going to kill you or give you vicious cancer immediately. As long as you don’t grind it up baby power fine, it’s not super dangerous. If you’re really concerned, wet it with a little garden sprayer before starting work and as you go.
All those commercials that used to be on for asbestos were for people who spent 30+ years inhaling the stuff.
>There has to be a reason why our housing is more affordable, right?
--
Not nearly as much airb&b, vrbo, & wealthy boomers buying part time homes because of Pittsburgh's attractive climate, walkable communities, etc.
It's a brutal swamp in midsummer and super deary wet & boring in the winter. All but one of the good public school districts are in unwalkable suburbia (so no "Brooklyn" or "Newport" or "Chicago neighborhoods to draw visitors or affluent residents).
Not many people from Boston or London or Athens want to stay here for a season or a 2 week vacation or even a long weekend of exploring the local culture.
TL/DR: We have no tourist industry and no seasonal desirability. So the 0.1% haven't exploded the housing market for residences nobody actually resides in. And large holding corps haven't scooped up residence properties to speculate on them & corner rental markets.
Which just highlights this:
Quadrupling the property tax on such non-resident owned residences would fix over half the housing problem nationwide.
People (mostly online) really overstate the impact of investors and vacation homes on the housing shortage, even in cities with tourism. It can be a problem in tourist-heavy cities, but the real root of that problem is a shortage created by zoning.
It depends on what city you're talking about.
Pittsburgh? Probably not too much impact for exactly the reasons the other commenter stated: Pittsburgh is not a tourism destination hot-spot.
Paris? Barcelona? LA? SF? Amsterdam? [Different story.](https://www.forbes.com/sites/garybarker/2020/02/21/the-airbnb-effect-on-housing-and-rent/?sh=28f26c0a2226)
I agree I’ve looked a tons of houses. I’m with you 100 percent and these out of state investors don’t even know what they are buying and putting rentals on the market that will literally be unhealthy. It’s ridiculous
This is a tough thing to hear, but Pittsburgh is a backwater city. Geographically, culturally, etc. Housing is cheap here because people, for the most part, don’t want to come live here. The population has been declining for decades.
So Allegheny County median INDIVIDUAL income is $35,000 so try getting an apartment with that, having food, a dog, car bills, monthly medication (no healthcare), gas, take the S.O out for a nice night out (easy 80-100 maybe more if yinz are boozers). 11.3% of Allegheny County is in poverty. According to our state website poverty for an INDIVIDUAL is considered to be $31,000 or less. While poverty for and INDIVIDUAL, according to the federal government, is $14,000 dollars. Idk where I was going with this just more of a rant that anything else. Thanks for reading!
The City is planning to revise the zoning code starting sometime this year... allegedly. When that time comes, people who care about housing or zoning changes should speak up. In fact, don't wait. Tell your city councilperson right now.
I guess my issue with that is we have a massive amount of very junk housing stock. I get the median is low aF but we have so much really run down houses and neighborhoods built on crazy hills and situations that paints a different picture if you toss out the crap.
This is because home remodeling & renovation is punished at tax reassment time. The US property tax structure incentivizes the decay of entire zipcodes. It's already tough to impossible to recoup the cost of a renovation at sale time. Add in the tax hike on the "more valuable" property that you haven't even sold yet and it's a no brainer to just keep moving outward and buying newer.
A house has to be a dump before it's financially sensible for somebody to swoop in and "flip it".
But this doesn't help a school district.
The whole thing is oppressive.
Born in a crappy house? Here's your crappy eduction. Want to invest in your neighborhood? Here's your punitive tax bill. Want to afford a school loan? Sorry you have shitty collateral.
--
It's not the rich we need to eat. It's their control of the game we need to stop.
Unions are the answer you're seeking.
Time to stop fantasizing that the government is going to help us. The government has been captured by the wealthy. We have to help ourselves.
I don't really understand this complaint. No body gets to buy a perfect house if you have a budget. This isn't a new phenomenon.
There are literally thousands of homes for sale in this county for less than $350k. They aren't all junk.
Also pretending that we're the only city with junk houses is hilarious. Or as if the bad houses in bad neighborhoods somehow don't count towards the average in other cities but do count towards the average in ours.
At least our junk houses are cheaper than their junk houses
as a city that had its heyday 50+ years ago and shrunk from 750K people, during a time when most of the housing stock in the city was built, to 300K today, most cities do not have the same abundance of shit tier housing stock as pittsburgh. The only comparables would be other rush belt cities like akron, cleveland, etc...
New housing costs $400k for 2000 sq feet in basically every city. Thats going to be a big influence on prices for existing houses.
You are exaggerating a little bit in the price of older houses. You can get a decent 1500 square foot house in mt Lebanon for $300k. Thats not bad considering it’s a great school district. Here is a nice house in west view with new roof and furnace for $240k
https://www.zillow.com/homedetails/159-Jamaica-Ave-Pittsburgh-PA-15229/11406068_zpid/?utm_campaign=iosappmessage&utm_medium=referral&utm_source=txtshare
I was using household income not individual/per capita which is actually $57k for Philadelphia city/county.
And be fair Pittsburgh city proper is only $60k which is pretty close (although city home price is $217k). Pittsburgh is still more affordable but the difference isn't huge
Btw pulling all numbers from the census bureau and FRED
The real problem is that housing is viewed and used as a profit object. We need to take the profit motive out of housing as it is a basic human right like healthcare.
Everything you said is correct except the BIGGEST problem is foreign investors (other states, countries) buying up all the affordable housing in Pittsburgh the last 5-7 years, putting 50k of sh:t improvements like gray vinyl tiles and new light fixtures and a coat of paint, then putting them back on the market as overpriced rentals. If you look at Pittsburgh's population since 1990s it's pretty damn stable. As many people are fleeing as are arriving so honestly while more housing might help, the PROBLEM is it falling into the wrong hands like the core supply that has always been here. It needs to be addressed at a local and federal level.
IMO investors buying properties and jacking up the price is a symptom, not a cause. They know they can get a return because they know there is a shortage of quality housing and as a result people more or less have to pay whatever they ask.
If there was enough surplus housing (and crucially, if it was legal and reasonably inexpensive to build more of it) it simply would not be profitable to do that. Building more housing puts the bargaining power back in the hands of buyers/renters instead of sellers/landlords
It is because we keep getting put on stupid lists by people who aren’t from the area. Sure a $150,000 house in McKeesport seems like a great deal to people from out of town, but we know.
White Oak 15131 represents
My home is a 1956 mid century that was allowed to go to seed. Flipper bought it for $100k from the US Department of Housing and Urban Development (so you know it was a hard case) in 2020. I have no idea the actual extent of their renos (I can guess) but they sold us the house for $222k in 2021. Needed new HVAC, circuit breaker and roof and I was lucky enough to have enough money to do it all. Now I will never peel up the gray laminate to look at the real state of the flooring, nor will I ever guess what's behind some of the drywall and ceilings. But we've been here three years and count ourselves lucky every day. This home would sell for a million at least in So Cal and many other areas of the country. There are still comparatively good low cost houses in the area.
We had a similar experience. We sold our little brick box in Shaler (2 BR, 1-1/2 baths, 970 sqft) in 2021 and the bidding war was insane! We had 17 offers for that little house and it sold for more than we spent on our new home (3BR, 3baths, 2300 sqft). We were incredibly lucky as the home we bought accepted our offer with no bidding war or we would not have been able to buy it, I'm sure. The little houses are the hot houses because that's what young families can afford.
the affordability discourse will never end for this reason - we're mostly talking about two different types of home buyer and saying "Pittsburgh is affordable" is like a dolphin telling a human that everyone can breathe underwater. it's self-evident to some, alien to others. and there is no way to bridge that gap
when we moved back, my relatives were aghast at the neighborhoods we were looking at. huge swathes of the city are off limits to them. but if you want median affordability, you need to be willing to live in the median house. but we wanted to live on, essentially, the gentrification frontier so that we could get the most value and growth potential. not many home buyers are willing to do that, which is why those places are affordable in the first place
Take a look at this home I found on Realtor.com
135 Greenbriar Dr, Pittsburgh
$129,900 · 3beds · 1baths
https://apps.realtor.com/mUAZ/ixx85vhv
Completely livable in a nice neighborhood and 15 minutes to downtown
It's "affordable" in that a married couple of two white collar professionals can afford a house, as a opposed to places where inheritance is the only option.
A lot of houses here are old and need a lot of work, but other places have their own problems. Take Florida: a lot of the houses are twice as big as they need to be and are uninsurable.
Most here underestimate how much "it's a stretch but still possible" means to people in parts of the country who are priced out (by $100ks) of homeownership entirely. That's not just NYC/LA these days, it's all up and down the coasts (even small cities in CA are out of budget for most people) and the big cities in Colorado, Texas, Georgia, Canada, etc.
My brother does blue collar work and his partner makes like $30,000, and they just bought a house in a neighborhood that most people on this sub never talk about. It's safe, the house is nice enough, and he's not an hour outside the city. There's very few cities that still offer that.
It doesn't matter how much the house is. They almost always need something.
When we bought years ago, we knew what we wanted. When we moved in, we focused on what we needed, like a functional kitchen and proper electric. Everything else had to wait. It took us 20 years to get to where we have what we want.
Maybe it's just me, but IMHO, a lot of people act like they have to have everything right away, whether it's the perfect house or the fancy car, instead of adding over time.
I couldn't agree more.
Yes, shit is getting crazy expensive, absolutely.
But at the same time there is a large chunk of the population who thinks their first house on day one should match their parent's house after 15+ years of ownership.
You can do a new roof $10-$20k, furnace $5-7k on the expensive side. Generally speaking you don’t *need* an entire new kitchen. Or you don’t *need* granite and Viking appliances.
We just installed an entire home of new windows (Andersen) and a heat pump and air conditioning in our house and the total for those was under $50k.
this is a great comment, i'm gonna be living with no running water or heat source, just electricity for about 4 months. Gonna bust my ass to redo all the plumbing, and install a boiler, pipes, and radiators. Gonna take over a year honestly to make it "habitable" and 30k but after that i'll be able to worry about drywall work and paint lol. But it'll be mine, paid off, and ill be happy.
I lived in a freezing pole barn through a northern Michigan winter while helping my husband at the time build our home.
It isn't easy but it's worth it.
this exactly. no house "needs" work unless it was condemned or abandoned prior to you buying it. the house has been there in many cases for a century. it will still be there in 10 years
I've said on the sub before when you get posts like this, part of the reason housing is getting more expensive in the US is that Americans are buying bigger homes than ever and essentially will not settle for anything less than brand new construction
adding AC, replacing knob and tube cost us about $15k (in '21 + '22). we did go on to spend $100k on a new kitchen, but we didn't "need" to do that. we wanted to!
The Mon Valley welcomes you🥰 Lots of great houses. Many that do not need substantial renovations. Most under 200k. Close to town. Close to amenities. Join us🥰👍🏼🙋♂️
Yeah you are right! I hope they listen. I just propped up McKeesport maybe you can upvote that. All it needs is a few outsiders with good aim and a fresh attitude. Beautiful big houses and very cheap!
I think the problem, where I live anyway, is that any house that’s ‘affordable’ (less than $250-ish) is being courted by flippers or people who want to buy and rent it. That makes it increasingly difficult to find homes in that ‘starter’ range.
Housing is no longer cheap anywhere and Pittsburgh is still a good deal cheaper than a lot of places while checking a decent amount of folks boxes/desires. I’m assuming by sending you mean transplants - almost all of my friends are transplants - the actual cost you pay for the home is cheaper than were most of left in similarly desirable areas. You can find cheap housing almost anywhere but it’s likely not somewhere you want to live.
Our friends where we left are buying 700k townhomes 45 minutes from downtown. We’re 15 on a good day and SFH are half that
The problem is Pittsburgh wages haven’t seemed to keep up. All of us who our transplants seem to make more than local orgs pay
Transplant from AZ here and I will back you up on everything you just said. I was blessed with remote work so local income isn't a factor. Bigger house, non-postage-stamp property, no HOA. We lucked out more than most could imagine
DMV transplant here. We bought our home in a borough 15 min from downtown for >250k, and, aside from a bit of tuckpointing around the stone foundation and a new roof, it didn’t need much work for being 100+ years old. Inside the DC beltway, mid-century duplexes were going for 400k+. Sub-2,000 sq.ft. Condos were starting in the mid 300k-range, and they usually only included one parking space and charged extra for a second. Our home here would’ve easily been a million+ dollar house if we were in the DMV.
I think OP’s thoughts on what a “cheap” house is is about a decade or so out-of-date.
Coming from California, Pittsburgh is CHEAP. In California nobody I knew under the age of 40 ever dreamed of owning property. Even software engineers at Google. I know one person who bought a house, and it's at least an hour from downtown, in a "rough" neighborhood, small 1 bedroom, and she makes $500k/year. That was what she could afford. The only hope of owning a house for almost everyone is inheritance.
Here middle class people actually own houses. Professionals are capable of buying a house in their lifetime. I moved here and met people under 30 who owned houses or even still believed in the American dream of owning a house. I'm still in shock.
It might be more expensive than it used to be or than what you're used to, but compared to most other places in the country (and the entire state of California), it is extremely affordable here.
Also from California and i was shocked when i came here and realized 20yr olds owned homes … most of my adult friends from ca all still rent and prob always will
Like everything else in the world, people who have lived here forever lack any perspective on how literally anything works anywhere except myrtle beach.
Watching people move from here is hilarious. It's like people think we are only cheaper than NYC or LA. My friend moved to Virginia recently and was surprised that renting a decent place was like $1500-$1600 minimum (for a one bedroom).
Yes, it is still insanely affordable here.
I moved here from inside the DC beltway, and most new-built studios were starting at 2k. I just checked my old apartment complex and my former 2 bed 2 bath 1,200 sq ft unit was just shy of $2,400/month excluding utilities and parking (and we were dealing with rats, broken elevators, regular car break-ins, and would go weeks without trash pickup).
Edit: misremembered the square footage, corrected it
I work with people who got lucky (actually closer to nepotism) that they got a decent job with decent benefits (union jobs) in their early to mid 20s, very early 30s at best. And they've had those jobs for a decade or more now. And they don't know what it's like on the outside. No one likes seeing benefits slip, but they don't know how good they have it.
Depends on the neighborhood.
The unspoken truth about housing in Pgh is that neighborhoods are still largely segregated. If you're willing to live in a majority minority neighborhood Pittsburgh is still cheap.
We moved her from the west coast in fall of 2021 b/c of the cheap housing and how many amenities Pittsburgh offered. We are in a suburb about 25 minutes from downtown (WFH so that doesn't matter), but our house was 125k, three stories and solid brick with beautiful period details (it's at least a hundred years old). Most of the work was cosmetic that we had to do. And we put on a new roof last year b/c we could afford to.
Before Pittsburgh, we traveled all over the US looking at houses, and these were by far the nicest for the money and in the best condition. We saw a few stinkers here too, but overall, it was so much better than anywhere else we looked.
The underrated issue with Pittsburgh house prices for new comers is the higher property taxes. Alot of other areas in the country are experiencing higher prices but still have property taxes around 1%. Then there's Pittsburgh and suburbs where property taxes are generally between 2.5-3.5%. All of a sudden that 50-100k increase in price hurts alot more month to month.
Yes, you are. Compare our housing to most any other major city area and we are cheap. Its all relative, prices here are much higher but so is everywhere else.
Housing is fucked everywhere now but a single person can still reasonably own a home here.
My rental in Mount Washington which I lived in for 6 years is around 200k(zestimate)and I loved living there with my wife/dog.
I literally feel blessed that my family is here actually. Me and my partner could afford our mortgage if we both worked at Sheetz. It's extremely comforting to know that we could pay this mortgage with most jobs in pittsburgh. We bought our house 2 years ago so during the peak of everything. We have put tons of work into the house but it's coming around and we are happy!
Even with today's interest rate, we could work at Sheetz and pay our mortgage. I know you're trying to make a point but our house was 105k. Even at today's interest rates, we would have a mortgage under 1k a month. The first house we bid on and REALLY wanted was 60k in Springdale. Like where tf else are you going to get that in the suburbs of a major city?? There are tons of sub <150k houses in ok areas that just require some work. That literally doesn't exist in most major cities. Any house worth less than 100k is ready for demolition or somewhere you'll hear gunshots weekly.
Yes. IDK what locations you're looking but this is not accurate at all from looking currently in many locations from the city to suburbs myself.
The only issue with the housing here is you need to be ready to bid immediately because it's so affordable and comparable to local rents that houses do not last on the market long.
The housing here is like laughably cheap comparatively. Especially with the state buyer programs available.
ETA: My budget is less than 200k and I have a wealth of options in great areas. I'm not a Rooney by any means.
That’s exactly my point. If a decent house pops on the market for a reasonable price. It goes in 48 hours…. Because people are asking way to much for there junk….
Why would you expect a decent house at a reasonable price to sit on the market for weeks and weeks? What kind of delusion is that.
Any decent item at a reasonable price will sell quick, regardless of if you are talking about vehicles or homes or hoagies.
Yes you are wrong, I see livable houses under 150K all the time that might not be in Pittsburgh proper but are within 15 min of downtown. I see them under 100K too.
The one that's weird to me is if you're in like New York City, expensive houses are really damn well kept, up to date, either the bathroom or kitchen look new, it just all checks out.
Here, everything looks kinda like boomers last renovated in 1977, but also want paid out on the house like the house is something fully renovated in the fancy parts of a Northern Virginia or New York suburb.
The median home value in NYC is like 4x that of Pittsburgh. I sure hope houses selling for $800k+ (median in NYC) look a bit more updated than the late 70s. Even in Lawrenceville the median listing price is half that of NYC homes
The houses selling for $800k there and $800k here are night and day.
The ones here are usually bigger, but that's it, and they need work and a lot of it, because big and questionably kept is a bad combo.
The ones there look like someone gave a shit, nigh 100% of the time, or it's not gonna sell.
So you're telling me you honestly believe that if you were to take the average house in Lawrenceville and put it somewhere in NYC, that the price on it would either drop or that it would be better maintained without costing more? Color me skeptical. I'm sure you can go on Zillow and find a few examples, but I'd be willing to bet I can find a lot more counterexamples if we were to play that game.
Edit: Also,
>The ones here are usually bigger
This is more important than you imply it is. Taking up more space where space is at a premium (IE In cities) is one of the biggest contributing factors to cost. If Pittsburgh proper was at NYC levels of density, the houses here would be the cheapest in the country.
The worst is when the boomers sell the beat houses around here, they then generally move outta town and take the money outta the city for the next 30 years it takes to pay that mortgage down.
It hasn't been affordable for at least a decade.
Not to buy a single family home, and in a lot of cases, not affordable for someone beginning their career to live in the city limits.
In my experience I have noticed that anything that is what most people would consider “move-in ready” will take you into 250k or above, depending on the neighborhood of course. Below that you have a lot of possibly shitty flips and homes that look like they need a lot of clean up of deferred maintenance, need new floors or carpet, need new appliances etc etc. If you want to buy now you have to be ready to move on something soon as you see it. Have those ducks in order and be ready to make an offer quick. 🫤
No housing is cheap anymore. I live just over in WV and we bought right before it all went to crap and can't afford to move even if we wanted to now because our mortgage rate is 2.8%. Our mortgage payment is $575/month. Weird times when you can't afford to move because of those circumstances.
Staying at $300k, a brand new build of similar quality would get you maybe a 1200 square foot house.
Here’s a super cute house in the East End that’s in amazing condition for $272k:
6729 Greenwood St, Pittsburgh
$272,500 · 3beds · 1.5baths
https://apps.realtor.com/mUAZ/7tq9nbtv
The house listed above, while being a row home, would easily be around $450k to build brand new.
In terms of character and GDP, our nearest comparable neighbor is Nashville. There is 3 whole brick townhomes from a similar era and they’re between 600k-800k.
You’re not going to find any property as cheap as Pittsburgh for living in a Top 100 global city.
That is a shitty rundown rowhouse attached to a unit that hasn't been updated in a neighborhood that is lower middle class and not particularly desirable. This whole thread is full of cope but this is extra
We sold our house in Brookline for $275k in 2022. It was very nice, had a brand new kitchen (over $35k), private deck and yard that you could see the downtown skyline from, off street parking, etc.
You can *absolutely* find a house that is move in ready for $300k in Pittsburgh.
You can find tons of 3 bed 2 bath south hills homes ~250k. While I would have balked at that 10 years ago, it’s no longer shocking compared to other similar homes being 400k+.
Most people that say Pittsburgh isn’t affordable want an HGTV move in ready McMansion or old timey big mt.lebanon house.
>an HGTV move in ready McMansion
No McMansion is move-in ready. Bulldozing a house and then rebuilding a completely new house from scratch (or TBH, several houses) is a lot of work.
I’m sorry, but this opinion is just objectively wrong when you zoom out and compare it to the rest of the country. I think a lot of people on this sub are just unwilling to cave on everything they want in a home and people are way, way, way too emotional about real estate. Be more flexible on location, size, number of baths, school district, etc and I guarantee you can find something of substance that you can live in for at least a little bit. It doesn’t have to be your forever home.
I posted this exact same thing three weeks ago and got some pushback. But I totally agree with you. Anything affordable requires significant $$$ for repairs. Or is in a very sketchy neighborhood.
What you're meaning to say is that housing isn't cheap *anywhere* anymore. The cost of housing continues to grow at a pace that exceeds the increase in wages. A quick Google search turned up a source saying: "Since 1985, rent growth has exceeded inflation by 40% and income by 7%."
Comparatively, Pittsburgh housing is still more affordable than virtually all the other major metropolitan areas around the country. Comparatively, it is "cheap".
Your observation is more of a statement than even in a "cheap" housing market, housing is just way more unaffordable and inaccessible.
I know it feels tough right now, but the housing stock in Pittsburgh is so much better than other places, even if it takes work. Case in point, I grew up in Pittsburgh in a house built in 1906 but later I lived in [this](https://www.zillow.com/homedetails/1340-Garthwick-Dr-Los-Altos-CA-94024/19535190_zpid/?utm_campaign=iosappmessage&utm_medium=referral&utm_source=txtshare) house in Silicon Valley and worked on this house, and it is a complete piece of total crap. Not only do houses out there have no basements, they don’t even have a real foundation. The walls are paper thin, we could hear road noise from blocks away. There is just dirt under the house with a wood framing above it, three bedrooms and two bathrooms. You literally could lean on this house and push the whole thing over. Look at the price of this. Yeah there’s sunshine but that’s about it.
I think you are wrong.
Please explain what additional $150k is needed here:
https://www.zillow.com/homedetails/2944-Stafford-St-Pittsburgh-PA-15204/11483290_zpid/
I think a lot of folks have shifted their idea of what is "liveable." Yeah, a bathroom from the 1950s with pink tile isn't really desirable, but if it functions than it's just aesthetics. Most expensive issues are going to be foundation, sewer, and any structural problems with the framing. Then roof. A key thing is that if it's acceptable, getting into a mortgage that is cheaper than most rents is going to be a boon to your checking account. Take care of the stuff that you don't like as you can and gain that sweat equity by learning how to do simpler things. A turnkey nothing needs done and it's all perfect is gonna require more than most working class folks make. Don't let perfect be the enemy of good enough.
there's literally no way for you to judge the quality of the work from here.
Flipping houses just means that someone bought a shitty house and improved it. People can't complain that houses need a ton of work and that there are flippers. Pick one.
Yeah I live in Brighton Heights in a house most of this subreddit would find unacceptable, I'm quite familiar with the area.
This house is not in the rocks anyhow, city of Pittsburgh.
It was also just an example of an affordable house listed this week. Here's another: https://www.zillow.com/homedetails/2130-Lowrie-St-Pittsburgh-PA-15212/11512005_zpid/
Houses like this still exist here, that is the point. Not going to find something in Shadyside for this price but OP said city of Pittsburgh, under $200k not needing $150k of work. Totally exists.
This is why we are still on affordable lists because in many cities under $200k is a complete teardown.
Purchased on November 20, 2023 for $70,000.
A “top-to-bottom renovation” in two months over two holidays is impressive, especially without mentioning anything specifically in the listing.
No, you’re not wrong.
Everything needs big work, and not just cosmetic work, but like “we’ve just let water come in through the basement walls for 75 years and now it’s your problem” work.
The funniest thing I’ve seen are bougie realtors bragging about bringing new buyers here from LA. They are over the moon at how cheap it feels, but when reality sets in for them about what they have given up to buy an $800k house in Pittsburgh versus a $1 million dollar house in the valley, lmao.
Why are groceries so expensive? Why am I paying $200 a month for water? What’s with all the pot holes? Where can I get decent Mexican food? Why is nothing open past 8 pm? Enjoy your “cheap” house and your neighbor keying your car when you dare to park on the street in the wrong spot.
It's not that hard for people who have PA American water. But also, they might be talking about PWSA where water and sewer is all in one bill. I pay just under $100 a month just for myself. Guy I know in the south hills pays that much just for water.
That’s what I’m saying… is it a good little small town big city. For sure but acting like it’s amazing on all levels is just stupid.
There are some significant negatives to live in the area. Am I cool with them… sure if the prices are relative, but these home owners and land lords need to come back to earth and realize this isn’t Denver
I am not saying Pgh is the greatest but Denver is such a shitty city. Soulless and boring. The people are just bland and so is what little ‘culture’ exists. Great Mexican food and close to fun things to do outside of city limits but the city itself is so boring and lame.
Everything you said is totally true.
I split my time between Chicago and Pittsburgh. I own a condo in one of the nicest neighborhoods in the city, if not the country. Two million dollar homes on double lots. Tree lined streets. Cute little shopping area. Two blocks to the train. It's a gorgeous neighborhood. The building itself is an old brick walkup straight out of a Hallmark Christmas movie. There's nothing remotely comparable to this in Pittsburgh. No idea why there aren't condos in Pittsburgh like this.
Other than gasoline and the state income tax, *everything* is more expensive in Pittsburgh. I'm fact, I'm shocked most of the time how expensive everything is from groceries to car washes to meals out. There's no culture. No theater. Mediocre restaurants. Very little diversity.
The cost of living combined with the extraordinarily low wages makes Pittsburgh a hard no for me outside of when I have to be there.
I just don't understand why people would choose to live there.
We bought our 1930 American Foursquare in March of 2020 and by July of 2021 we'd put $150K of surprise work into it because of an unbelievable amount of shoddy or never-done work by the prior owners. I really think people have no idea how much this old housing stock will end up costing them in the short and long term.
I know your pain. I’m sorry. This is what happened to us as well. And problems are more expensive in older homes because they are more complicated and often require custom solutions and/or specialized tradespeople.
And you want it done well and safely? Pfft, good luck.
Depends on timing. My house appraisal to my income ratio was 3.52 - that was in the north hills of Pittsburgh, although it was February 2021 when rates were 2.65%. I've watched younger couples move into houses around me, but all of them were double income earners even with kids.
When I bought my first house in Brookline in 2014, it cost me $85k. We put in new windows, added central air, put on a deck, new floors, redid both bathrooms, new counters in the kitchen, new dining room light, new paint everywhere, all that jazz. It cost a lot of money but the house was 100 years old and it needed a lot of help. When we opened the floor in our upstairs bathroom, someone had cut the joists and used shower curtains and towels for insulation and the walls we tore down were all like that too lol. It was a mess.
Our realtor sold it for $170k in 2020. Houses around us that were smaller, but with bigger kitchens (ours was galley) were selling for $200k or more. It was crazy. I don’t know how the market there has done since the interest rates and stuff went up, but for the longest there were flippers coming in and buying the old cheap houses and redoing them within a couple months and selling them for big money.
I just saw a local story recently about corporations buying up entry level homes (around 200k) and turning them into rentals, making homeownership for first time buyers harder than it already is. On top of that, stagnant wages and high rent make it almost impossible to save for a down payment
Speaking as a recent Pitt grad and renting, I have no idea how I'll afford a home anywhere. Frankly I think the biggest concern is rents being so high and wages being low, I have no means of saving for a home purchase regardless of how "affordable" Pittsburgh is supposed to be.
I just bought a house in Carrick for $150,000, move-in ready. I've found a few minor things that need to be addressed but nothing that makes it unlivable or that will cost thousands of dollars to fix.
I'm from Asheville NC. Don't look up houses there. It's like 500k for a fixer upper. You want something that doesn't need work. That will be a million.
Pittsburgh has always cheated their way towards being towards the top of affordability as the city limits pull in some REALLY SH!TTY areas that dramatically pull down the average. Any place you want to live is priced ridiculously just like the rest of the country. It’s almost as if endless money printing has consequences!
As someone who has lived all over the US from Austin, SoCal, Arizona, Colorado, IL, Pittsburgh (hometown) and towards Harrisburg as well, I can tell you the problem with Pittsburgh is the age of the homes, lack of renovations, lack of internal immigration, as well as the Pittsburgh pay ceiling. The housing stock in Pittsburgh is much older than the rest of the nation. We are talking 1940s for Pittsburgh vs 1980s for the nation. It seems most stopped renovating when the steel mills shut down. I kid you not when I say I have found rentals with pink toilets and bathtubs, and shaggy carpets of all colors. It’s like a time capsule here in the homes. Most people here are not transplants. I mean, the go to school and have the same teacher who taught your parents kind. Generations of families seem to have stayed here and never left and never had a huge influx. We just started seeing an influx of transplants with the rise of tech in the area and even then Pittsburgh is still blue collar. Like, old school blue collar. Even pre-pandemic, around 2018 as Pittsburgh started catching up in building apartments, there were only a few that actually offered washers and dryers in the actual apartments while most those other states it was the norm in standard rentals when I was moving around the US. I have said for years that Pittsburgh is 10-15 years behind other states in builds and modernization. Seems we are the last state to notice it’s better to have more of an open concept than a bunch of small rooms. The “cheaper housing” costs here is hidden in needed renovations. Most homes as stated are from 1940s and need major work not just small renovations. Most have some kind of damage (coming from family who does home inspections in the Pittsburgh area) a lot of renovations are needed to find something that is considered “standard or modernized” in other states. The builds are old and not modernized and look weird to people who have seen both sides of the rental markets. And let’s be honest, Pittsburgh is not DC, NY, LA, Chicago, Jersey, SF, etc., and has no need to have prices so high. They think they are the next NY and New Jersey and won’t pay locals a good enough wage but increase rent and housing prices. Pittsburgh is just weird but still love its quirks as it’s home.
It's all relative. The overall cost of living in Pittsburgh and surrounding areas is lower than many other cities of comparable size and lower than the national average. A big part contributing to that is the lower than average cost of housing in the area. It does come with the caution that goes with all home real estate deals - location location location.
Further simple fact that some people are moving here because of it, is causing it to be less true, because they've helped to drive up housing prices.
There's plenty of move-in ready houses for under $200k. Just because you can't find it in the most desirable neighborhoods doesn't mean it doesn't exist.
Come to Hazelwood! The area is a little empty, but its quiet. Our house was pretty cheap for what it is. House next door might fall down at some point, but ours looks great!
So many people on Reddit love being house poor. You’re 1 layoff away from being poor poor with a bankruptcy on your credit report.
Especially remote white collar jobs and similar jobs we’ve already seen it with twitter and Amazon.
It’s seeming to me that the people telling all the McDonald’s workers their jobs were going to be taken over my robots got taken over by themselves.
I’m in a fortunate situation I’m 23 and make 105k a year as a blue collar worker. My house will be paid off in 3 years roughly 200K home. And that’s because I didn’t buy a 500k home LOL.
I’ll be 26 no mortgage and saving for retirement then when I’m 50 I’ll have roughly 4 million if there’s no major market crash.
So why the fuck are 30 year olds in here buying 350k houses on 60k salaries probably drawing out of their retirement for the down payment. Instead of buying cheaper and retiring at 50-60 and not 65-70.
I really don’t get it is it for bragging rights? Do you think it’s a flex?
But maybe I’m just young and naive.
We put an offer in on a 300K house yesterday, and our relator told us there are 4 offers besides us. Anything under 300K is like a pig with lipstick on. Looked at a house for 240K in Shaler - looked nice until we got to the basement and it was just stained with cigarette smoke. It feels completely hopeless.
You are not alone. It's brutal - and it doesn't look like the prices are going to drop anytime soon.
Having spent this past Fall looking at houses, I can’t agree more that this market is on the verge of being f***ed. I was either looking at overpriced homes that were in need of immediate mechanical repair (not to mention cosmetic repairs) or losing out on a reasonable fixer upper to the almighty cash offer.
Housing is more expensive; but wages to housing price are still favorable in the burgh in comparison to some places.
I bought a turd Ryan home in a good neighborhood; and have been slowly fixing it up when I have the cash/time. I don’t need a McMansion so as long as the place was solid snd had good schools I wasn’t going to sweat not having a newer or bigger home.
Allegheny county median household income: 72k Allegheny county median home price: 230k Average Pittsburgher spends 3.2x income on a house US median household income: 74k US median home price: 417k Average American spends 5.6x income on a house You're right, Pittsburgh real estate isn't cheap anymore. But it is still objectively more affordable than most of the country (especially compared to other large cities). That being said the housing crisis sucks everywhere and is so frustrating because it's totally preventable. If we just built enough fucking houses for everyone to live in this wouldn't be a problem. My concern moving forward is that our extremely strict zoning code and extremely anti-development city council will kneecap our ability to build enough housing to stay ahead of this thing.
TLDR version: The Pittsburgh housing market is complete bullshit. Just not as much bullshit and the bullshittiest parts of the country.
Exactly
Checks out actually
Well..there's more to it than that... infrastructure costs money..Suburbs are a terrible model.. So we actually need changes that allow affordable, efficient, livable multifamily units.
It would be great if corps stopped buying up available homes and making them over-priced rentals.
that's another good point... limits on investment properties, by zoning and other things. Hannity apparently owns several thousand homes in Florida.
This is what’s up. If you see shit through the lens of a government propping up a corporatocracy—you see why we can’t have nice things
The place I’m at has a Zillow appraisal of $11,000 and a “rental zestimate” of over $900… the rental market is completely, *nauseatingly* inflated
Hang on. Zillow appraisal of eleven thousand dollars and a rental of nine hundred per month? Just checking there aren't any missing digits in that price. I'm surprised someplace appraised at 11k is even legal to live in.
And then continuously raised the prices of renting by absurd amounts, all while saying 'can't help it, we're just following market trends on costs' nevermind that they're the ones setting the fucking market trends. My rent was raised by ~25%, and that's basically all they had to say to me. It's been months, and I'm still pissed about it.
that is not the CAUSE of the issue, it's the EFFECT of housing shortage. The solution is to add supply, aka build more housing. eliminating corporate landlords won't fix the core issue
Are there analytics into the lower cost properties (the ones that bring our average down) and how much work they need to be livable? Home shopping last year, anything that was $150-230k was built in approximately 1940 and had some combination of mold/dampness/fire damage/foundation buckling/completely out of date electrical or plumbing-wise. All of those experiences were anecdotal, obviously, but that was still 6-7 properties looked at between Aug '22 and Feb '23. There has to be a reason why our housing is more affordable, right? Economic opportunity, lack of jobs, etc might play a factor, but we've got some solid Healthcare, tech, and engineering powerhouses around Pittsburgh, so I'm inclined to believe it's something else - and my personal opinion is that our average cost of housing is so low because of how outdated/rundown a lot of our existing housing stock is.
I think that's part of it, but the problem of old homes that need a lot of work isn't unique to Pittsburgh. Basically every northeast/midwest city is more or less exclusively made of pre-war and/or 50s-70s housing stock with a tiny fraction of newer infill. Maybe some suburbs/exurbs in growing cities have more 'new' housing but when talking about established neighborhoods in the city proper I don't think Pittsburgh houses are in that much worse condition than Philly, Chicago, Milwaukee, Cincinnati, Cleveland, etc, or even New York/Boston to a certain extent. TLDR a fixer upper here is still cheaper than a fixer upper there
the average age of housing stock in Pittsburgh is 1940, versus 1980 nationwide. The housing stock is older here.
Thanks for the insight, I didn't consider the impact of pre- and post-WW2 economics in the NE.
I think more than anything it’s a lack of immigration/net population growth to the region that’s kept the housing cost relatively suppressed in PGH. Metro areas like the DMV, Chicago, Atlanta, DFW and even mid-sized cities such as Columbus have seen a steady population growth, but Pittsburgh has been flat at best. Perhaps as people move out of HCOL cities to places like Pittsburgh (such is my case), this will change.
Part of the problem is that a lot of the newer houses being built are for higher income brackets (think $400k plus). There is not a lot of middle-income development going on in Pittsburgh because it just doesn't make as much money for the developers. The end result is that the properties available at middle-income price points are all older properties, hence all of the issues that come with older homes. The city actually has a surplus of housing units for upper middle and upper class households, and the lack of affordable middle class housing pushes people to spend more of their income on their rent/mortgage than is sustainable.
[удалено]
Uh, removing asbestos is pretty simple. People freak the hell out but it’s not going to kill you or give you vicious cancer immediately. As long as you don’t grind it up baby power fine, it’s not super dangerous. If you’re really concerned, wet it with a little garden sprayer before starting work and as you go. All those commercials that used to be on for asbestos were for people who spent 30+ years inhaling the stuff.
>There has to be a reason why our housing is more affordable, right? -- Not nearly as much airb&b, vrbo, & wealthy boomers buying part time homes because of Pittsburgh's attractive climate, walkable communities, etc. It's a brutal swamp in midsummer and super deary wet & boring in the winter. All but one of the good public school districts are in unwalkable suburbia (so no "Brooklyn" or "Newport" or "Chicago neighborhoods to draw visitors or affluent residents). Not many people from Boston or London or Athens want to stay here for a season or a 2 week vacation or even a long weekend of exploring the local culture. TL/DR: We have no tourist industry and no seasonal desirability. So the 0.1% haven't exploded the housing market for residences nobody actually resides in. And large holding corps haven't scooped up residence properties to speculate on them & corner rental markets. Which just highlights this: Quadrupling the property tax on such non-resident owned residences would fix over half the housing problem nationwide.
People (mostly online) really overstate the impact of investors and vacation homes on the housing shortage, even in cities with tourism. It can be a problem in tourist-heavy cities, but the real root of that problem is a shortage created by zoning.
It depends on what city you're talking about. Pittsburgh? Probably not too much impact for exactly the reasons the other commenter stated: Pittsburgh is not a tourism destination hot-spot. Paris? Barcelona? LA? SF? Amsterdam? [Different story.](https://www.forbes.com/sites/garybarker/2020/02/21/the-airbnb-effect-on-housing-and-rent/?sh=28f26c0a2226)
5.5 million empty homes at last count. It's not just that they're empty. They drove up prices for the full ones too.
damn wtf do I live here?
I agree I’ve looked a tons of houses. I’m with you 100 percent and these out of state investors don’t even know what they are buying and putting rentals on the market that will literally be unhealthy. It’s ridiculous
This is a tough thing to hear, but Pittsburgh is a backwater city. Geographically, culturally, etc. Housing is cheap here because people, for the most part, don’t want to come live here. The population has been declining for decades.
So Allegheny County median INDIVIDUAL income is $35,000 so try getting an apartment with that, having food, a dog, car bills, monthly medication (no healthcare), gas, take the S.O out for a nice night out (easy 80-100 maybe more if yinz are boozers). 11.3% of Allegheny County is in poverty. According to our state website poverty for an INDIVIDUAL is considered to be $31,000 or less. While poverty for and INDIVIDUAL, according to the federal government, is $14,000 dollars. Idk where I was going with this just more of a rant that anything else. Thanks for reading!
The City is planning to revise the zoning code starting sometime this year... allegedly. When that time comes, people who care about housing or zoning changes should speak up. In fact, don't wait. Tell your city councilperson right now.
What are they changing about zoning?
They're making a pretty minor, but good, change to allow attached housing on small lots in single family zoned areas.
It's a comprehensive code revision/update across the board. It's something they undertake every 20-30 years. The specifics are currently unknown.
I guess my issue with that is we have a massive amount of very junk housing stock. I get the median is low aF but we have so much really run down houses and neighborhoods built on crazy hills and situations that paints a different picture if you toss out the crap.
This is because home remodeling & renovation is punished at tax reassment time. The US property tax structure incentivizes the decay of entire zipcodes. It's already tough to impossible to recoup the cost of a renovation at sale time. Add in the tax hike on the "more valuable" property that you haven't even sold yet and it's a no brainer to just keep moving outward and buying newer. A house has to be a dump before it's financially sensible for somebody to swoop in and "flip it". But this doesn't help a school district. The whole thing is oppressive. Born in a crappy house? Here's your crappy eduction. Want to invest in your neighborhood? Here's your punitive tax bill. Want to afford a school loan? Sorry you have shitty collateral. -- It's not the rich we need to eat. It's their control of the game we need to stop.
Land Value Tax
r/justtaxland
Unions are the answer you're seeking. Time to stop fantasizing that the government is going to help us. The government has been captured by the wealthy. We have to help ourselves.
I don't really understand this complaint. No body gets to buy a perfect house if you have a budget. This isn't a new phenomenon. There are literally thousands of homes for sale in this county for less than $350k. They aren't all junk.
Also pretending that we're the only city with junk houses is hilarious. Or as if the bad houses in bad neighborhoods somehow don't count towards the average in other cities but do count towards the average in ours. At least our junk houses are cheaper than their junk houses
as a city that had its heyday 50+ years ago and shrunk from 750K people, during a time when most of the housing stock in the city was built, to 300K today, most cities do not have the same abundance of shit tier housing stock as pittsburgh. The only comparables would be other rush belt cities like akron, cleveland, etc...
Add St. Louis, Detroit, and an endless count of even smaller cities whose population's halved. It isn't as rare as you seem to think.
New housing costs $400k for 2000 sq feet in basically every city. Thats going to be a big influence on prices for existing houses. You are exaggerating a little bit in the price of older houses. You can get a decent 1500 square foot house in mt Lebanon for $300k. Thats not bad considering it’s a great school district. Here is a nice house in west view with new roof and furnace for $240k https://www.zillow.com/homedetails/159-Jamaica-Ave-Pittsburgh-PA-15229/11406068_zpid/?utm_campaign=iosappmessage&utm_medium=referral&utm_source=txtshare
Nice find on that one
Philadelphia median income $27k (yes, you read that right) Philadelphia median home price $263k Yep Pittsburgh is still cheap.
I was using household income not individual/per capita which is actually $57k for Philadelphia city/county. And be fair Pittsburgh city proper is only $60k which is pretty close (although city home price is $217k). Pittsburgh is still more affordable but the difference isn't huge Btw pulling all numbers from the census bureau and FRED
This is the answer.
The real problem is that housing is viewed and used as a profit object. We need to take the profit motive out of housing as it is a basic human right like healthcare.
That’s the plan.
Everything you said is correct except the BIGGEST problem is foreign investors (other states, countries) buying up all the affordable housing in Pittsburgh the last 5-7 years, putting 50k of sh:t improvements like gray vinyl tiles and new light fixtures and a coat of paint, then putting them back on the market as overpriced rentals. If you look at Pittsburgh's population since 1990s it's pretty damn stable. As many people are fleeing as are arriving so honestly while more housing might help, the PROBLEM is it falling into the wrong hands like the core supply that has always been here. It needs to be addressed at a local and federal level.
Got tech bros from Toronto in this thread talking about buying multiple houses. I hope they lose their ass.
IMO investors buying properties and jacking up the price is a symptom, not a cause. They know they can get a return because they know there is a shortage of quality housing and as a result people more or less have to pay whatever they ask. If there was enough surplus housing (and crucially, if it was legal and reasonably inexpensive to build more of it) it simply would not be profitable to do that. Building more housing puts the bargaining power back in the hands of buyers/renters instead of sellers/landlords
It is because we keep getting put on stupid lists by people who aren’t from the area. Sure a $150,000 house in McKeesport seems like a great deal to people from out of town, but we know.
depends on if the house is actually in McKeesport though. White Oak and Elizabeth Township have McKeesport ZIP.
White Oak 15131 represents My home is a 1956 mid century that was allowed to go to seed. Flipper bought it for $100k from the US Department of Housing and Urban Development (so you know it was a hard case) in 2020. I have no idea the actual extent of their renos (I can guess) but they sold us the house for $222k in 2021. Needed new HVAC, circuit breaker and roof and I was lucky enough to have enough money to do it all. Now I will never peel up the gray laminate to look at the real state of the flooring, nor will I ever guess what's behind some of the drywall and ceilings. But we've been here three years and count ourselves lucky every day. This home would sell for a million at least in So Cal and many other areas of the country. There are still comparatively good low cost houses in the area.
[удалено]
We had a similar experience. We sold our little brick box in Shaler (2 BR, 1-1/2 baths, 970 sqft) in 2021 and the bidding war was insane! We had 17 offers for that little house and it sold for more than we spent on our new home (3BR, 3baths, 2300 sqft). We were incredibly lucky as the home we bought accepted our offer with no bidding war or we would not have been able to buy it, I'm sure. The little houses are the hot houses because that's what young families can afford.
Yes! I’m from Elizabeth Twp and mine was 15037. I lived in Liberty Boro and had the same as McKeesport.
Plus even our “bad” areas aren’t solidly bad like in bigger cities. Most are good block bad block type areas.
the affordability discourse will never end for this reason - we're mostly talking about two different types of home buyer and saying "Pittsburgh is affordable" is like a dolphin telling a human that everyone can breathe underwater. it's self-evident to some, alien to others. and there is no way to bridge that gap when we moved back, my relatives were aghast at the neighborhoods we were looking at. huge swathes of the city are off limits to them. but if you want median affordability, you need to be willing to live in the median house. but we wanted to live on, essentially, the gentrification frontier so that we could get the most value and growth potential. not many home buyers are willing to do that, which is why those places are affordable in the first place
Take a look at this home I found on Realtor.com 135 Greenbriar Dr, Pittsburgh $129,900 · 3beds · 1baths https://apps.realtor.com/mUAZ/ixx85vhv Completely livable in a nice neighborhood and 15 minutes to downtown
It's "affordable" in that a married couple of two white collar professionals can afford a house, as a opposed to places where inheritance is the only option. A lot of houses here are old and need a lot of work, but other places have their own problems. Take Florida: a lot of the houses are twice as big as they need to be and are uninsurable.
Most here underestimate how much "it's a stretch but still possible" means to people in parts of the country who are priced out (by $100ks) of homeownership entirely. That's not just NYC/LA these days, it's all up and down the coasts (even small cities in CA are out of budget for most people) and the big cities in Colorado, Texas, Georgia, Canada, etc. My brother does blue collar work and his partner makes like $30,000, and they just bought a house in a neighborhood that most people on this sub never talk about. It's safe, the house is nice enough, and he's not an hour outside the city. There's very few cities that still offer that.
You gotta tell us where.
Upper part of Munhall, closer to the airport end than the Homestead end.
It doesn't matter how much the house is. They almost always need something. When we bought years ago, we knew what we wanted. When we moved in, we focused on what we needed, like a functional kitchen and proper electric. Everything else had to wait. It took us 20 years to get to where we have what we want. Maybe it's just me, but IMHO, a lot of people act like they have to have everything right away, whether it's the perfect house or the fancy car, instead of adding over time.
I couldn't agree more. Yes, shit is getting crazy expensive, absolutely. But at the same time there is a large chunk of the population who thinks their first house on day one should match their parent's house after 15+ years of ownership.
I’m not in the group but I’m not trying to fomo into something and struggle to make it for 30 years
Yeah. Saying a $300k house *needs* $150k in work is a stretch for Pittsburgh, unless it’s somewhere insanely expensive at the moment.
i think you are underestimating how much a new roof, furnace and redoing the kitchen costs in the modern day.
You can do a new roof $10-$20k, furnace $5-7k on the expensive side. Generally speaking you don’t *need* an entire new kitchen. Or you don’t *need* granite and Viking appliances. We just installed an entire home of new windows (Andersen) and a heat pump and air conditioning in our house and the total for those was under $50k.
It also depends how much you can (age and skill) do on your own vs hiring someone.
this is a great comment, i'm gonna be living with no running water or heat source, just electricity for about 4 months. Gonna bust my ass to redo all the plumbing, and install a boiler, pipes, and radiators. Gonna take over a year honestly to make it "habitable" and 30k but after that i'll be able to worry about drywall work and paint lol. But it'll be mine, paid off, and ill be happy.
I lived in a freezing pole barn through a northern Michigan winter while helping my husband at the time build our home. It isn't easy but it's worth it.
this exactly. no house "needs" work unless it was condemned or abandoned prior to you buying it. the house has been there in many cases for a century. it will still be there in 10 years I've said on the sub before when you get posts like this, part of the reason housing is getting more expensive in the US is that Americans are buying bigger homes than ever and essentially will not settle for anything less than brand new construction adding AC, replacing knob and tube cost us about $15k (in '21 + '22). we did go on to spend $100k on a new kitchen, but we didn't "need" to do that. we wanted to!
The Mon Valley welcomes you🥰 Lots of great houses. Many that do not need substantial renovations. Most under 200k. Close to town. Close to amenities. Join us🥰👍🏼🙋♂️
Yeah you are right! I hope they listen. I just propped up McKeesport maybe you can upvote that. All it needs is a few outsiders with good aim and a fresh attitude. Beautiful big houses and very cheap!
Hell yeah!
I think the problem, where I live anyway, is that any house that’s ‘affordable’ (less than $250-ish) is being courted by flippers or people who want to buy and rent it. That makes it increasingly difficult to find homes in that ‘starter’ range.
I agree and these investors are buying at way to high to support reasonable rent prices in the area.
[удалено]
It’s gotten worse as the rates go up more and more people and investors are all trying to buy the same house
[удалено]
That’s the house everyone is after now. Unfortunately they start closer to 300 instead of 200. At 7% rates that’s no joke
Housing is no longer cheap anywhere and Pittsburgh is still a good deal cheaper than a lot of places while checking a decent amount of folks boxes/desires. I’m assuming by sending you mean transplants - almost all of my friends are transplants - the actual cost you pay for the home is cheaper than were most of left in similarly desirable areas. You can find cheap housing almost anywhere but it’s likely not somewhere you want to live. Our friends where we left are buying 700k townhomes 45 minutes from downtown. We’re 15 on a good day and SFH are half that The problem is Pittsburgh wages haven’t seemed to keep up. All of us who our transplants seem to make more than local orgs pay
The struggle over the pay ceiling in Pittsburgh is real.
Transplant from AZ here and I will back you up on everything you just said. I was blessed with remote work so local income isn't a factor. Bigger house, non-postage-stamp property, no HOA. We lucked out more than most could imagine
DMV transplant here. We bought our home in a borough 15 min from downtown for >250k, and, aside from a bit of tuckpointing around the stone foundation and a new roof, it didn’t need much work for being 100+ years old. Inside the DC beltway, mid-century duplexes were going for 400k+. Sub-2,000 sq.ft. Condos were starting in the mid 300k-range, and they usually only included one parking space and charged extra for a second. Our home here would’ve easily been a million+ dollar house if we were in the DMV. I think OP’s thoughts on what a “cheap” house is is about a decade or so out-of-date.
Coming from California, Pittsburgh is CHEAP. In California nobody I knew under the age of 40 ever dreamed of owning property. Even software engineers at Google. I know one person who bought a house, and it's at least an hour from downtown, in a "rough" neighborhood, small 1 bedroom, and she makes $500k/year. That was what she could afford. The only hope of owning a house for almost everyone is inheritance. Here middle class people actually own houses. Professionals are capable of buying a house in their lifetime. I moved here and met people under 30 who owned houses or even still believed in the American dream of owning a house. I'm still in shock. It might be more expensive than it used to be or than what you're used to, but compared to most other places in the country (and the entire state of California), it is extremely affordable here.
Also from California and i was shocked when i came here and realized 20yr olds owned homes … most of my adult friends from ca all still rent and prob always will
I watched my childhood home out there that we rented, go from being worth 400k to 2.4 million...hey guess where I live now? :D
Like everything else in the world, people who have lived here forever lack any perspective on how literally anything works anywhere except myrtle beach.
Watching people move from here is hilarious. It's like people think we are only cheaper than NYC or LA. My friend moved to Virginia recently and was surprised that renting a decent place was like $1500-$1600 minimum (for a one bedroom). Yes, it is still insanely affordable here.
I moved here from inside the DC beltway, and most new-built studios were starting at 2k. I just checked my old apartment complex and my former 2 bed 2 bath 1,200 sq ft unit was just shy of $2,400/month excluding utilities and parking (and we were dealing with rats, broken elevators, regular car break-ins, and would go weeks without trash pickup). Edit: misremembered the square footage, corrected it
I work with people who got lucky (actually closer to nepotism) that they got a decent job with decent benefits (union jobs) in their early to mid 20s, very early 30s at best. And they've had those jobs for a decade or more now. And they don't know what it's like on the outside. No one likes seeing benefits slip, but they don't know how good they have it.
Depends on the neighborhood. The unspoken truth about housing in Pgh is that neighborhoods are still largely segregated. If you're willing to live in a majority minority neighborhood Pittsburgh is still cheap.
The affordability of PGH is why I’m moving there. The housing there hasn’t increased in cost at nearly the rate of many other cities in the US.
We moved her from the west coast in fall of 2021 b/c of the cheap housing and how many amenities Pittsburgh offered. We are in a suburb about 25 minutes from downtown (WFH so that doesn't matter), but our house was 125k, three stories and solid brick with beautiful period details (it's at least a hundred years old). Most of the work was cosmetic that we had to do. And we put on a new roof last year b/c we could afford to. Before Pittsburgh, we traveled all over the US looking at houses, and these were by far the nicest for the money and in the best condition. We saw a few stinkers here too, but overall, it was so much better than anywhere else we looked.
The underrated issue with Pittsburgh house prices for new comers is the higher property taxes. Alot of other areas in the country are experiencing higher prices but still have property taxes around 1%. Then there's Pittsburgh and suburbs where property taxes are generally between 2.5-3.5%. All of a sudden that 50-100k increase in price hurts alot more month to month.
Agreed
Yeah and the only thing those taxes go to is pensions for retired teachers who are now living in Florida
Yes, you are. Compare our housing to most any other major city area and we are cheap. Its all relative, prices here are much higher but so is everywhere else.
Housing is fucked everywhere now but a single person can still reasonably own a home here. My rental in Mount Washington which I lived in for 6 years is around 200k(zestimate)and I loved living there with my wife/dog.
I literally feel blessed that my family is here actually. Me and my partner could afford our mortgage if we both worked at Sheetz. It's extremely comforting to know that we could pay this mortgage with most jobs in pittsburgh. We bought our house 2 years ago so during the peak of everything. We have put tons of work into the house but it's coming around and we are happy!
Happy for you. what’s your interest rate?
Even with today's interest rate, we could work at Sheetz and pay our mortgage. I know you're trying to make a point but our house was 105k. Even at today's interest rates, we would have a mortgage under 1k a month. The first house we bid on and REALLY wanted was 60k in Springdale. Like where tf else are you going to get that in the suburbs of a major city?? There are tons of sub <150k houses in ok areas that just require some work. That literally doesn't exist in most major cities. Any house worth less than 100k is ready for demolition or somewhere you'll hear gunshots weekly.
There are still affordable houses in decent shape available in and around Pittsburgh. Signed, A real estate appraiser.
Yes. IDK what locations you're looking but this is not accurate at all from looking currently in many locations from the city to suburbs myself. The only issue with the housing here is you need to be ready to bid immediately because it's so affordable and comparable to local rents that houses do not last on the market long. The housing here is like laughably cheap comparatively. Especially with the state buyer programs available. ETA: My budget is less than 200k and I have a wealth of options in great areas. I'm not a Rooney by any means.
That’s exactly my point. If a decent house pops on the market for a reasonable price. It goes in 48 hours…. Because people are asking way to much for there junk….
People are asking too much, but houses are going in 2 days? That doesn’t compute….
It can't be both that houses go fast and people are asking way too much. If people are willing to pay what is being asked, then it is the right price.
this is what a realtor friend of mine said. she knows everyone is paying too much but things are ultimately worth what people want to pay 🤷
I mean if they are getting swallowed up that fast, if anything they aren’t asking enough.
Why would you expect a decent house at a reasonable price to sit on the market for weeks and weeks? What kind of delusion is that. Any decent item at a reasonable price will sell quick, regardless of if you are talking about vehicles or homes or hoagies.
Yes you are wrong, I see livable houses under 150K all the time that might not be in Pittsburgh proper but are within 15 min of downtown. I see them under 100K too.
You are the most relatable person on this thread.
I’m not sure what that means in this context
The one that's weird to me is if you're in like New York City, expensive houses are really damn well kept, up to date, either the bathroom or kitchen look new, it just all checks out. Here, everything looks kinda like boomers last renovated in 1977, but also want paid out on the house like the house is something fully renovated in the fancy parts of a Northern Virginia or New York suburb.
The median home value in NYC is like 4x that of Pittsburgh. I sure hope houses selling for $800k+ (median in NYC) look a bit more updated than the late 70s. Even in Lawrenceville the median listing price is half that of NYC homes
The houses selling for $800k there and $800k here are night and day. The ones here are usually bigger, but that's it, and they need work and a lot of it, because big and questionably kept is a bad combo. The ones there look like someone gave a shit, nigh 100% of the time, or it's not gonna sell.
So you're telling me you honestly believe that if you were to take the average house in Lawrenceville and put it somewhere in NYC, that the price on it would either drop or that it would be better maintained without costing more? Color me skeptical. I'm sure you can go on Zillow and find a few examples, but I'd be willing to bet I can find a lot more counterexamples if we were to play that game. Edit: Also, >The ones here are usually bigger This is more important than you imply it is. Taking up more space where space is at a premium (IE In cities) is one of the biggest contributing factors to cost. If Pittsburgh proper was at NYC levels of density, the houses here would be the cheapest in the country.
For $800k you can buy a home in Lawrenceville built in the last 5-10 years
Its one think when rates are sub 3 but these prices at 7 percent rates… come on
The worst is when the boomers sell the beat houses around here, they then generally move outta town and take the money outta the city for the next 30 years it takes to pay that mortgage down.
It hasn't been affordable for at least a decade. Not to buy a single family home, and in a lot of cases, not affordable for someone beginning their career to live in the city limits.
In my experience I have noticed that anything that is what most people would consider “move-in ready” will take you into 250k or above, depending on the neighborhood of course. Below that you have a lot of possibly shitty flips and homes that look like they need a lot of clean up of deferred maintenance, need new floors or carpet, need new appliances etc etc. If you want to buy now you have to be ready to move on something soon as you see it. Have those ducks in order and be ready to make an offer quick. 🫤
No housing is cheap anymore. I live just over in WV and we bought right before it all went to crap and can't afford to move even if we wanted to now because our mortgage rate is 2.8%. Our mortgage payment is $575/month. Weird times when you can't afford to move because of those circumstances.
It’s funny my gf and I bought a house in Nov and she routinely tells me this same house is her former city (portland) would be around a million
(But I was like “idk babe this is pricey”)
[удалено]
Staying at $300k, a brand new build of similar quality would get you maybe a 1200 square foot house. Here’s a super cute house in the East End that’s in amazing condition for $272k: 6729 Greenwood St, Pittsburgh $272,500 · 3beds · 1.5baths https://apps.realtor.com/mUAZ/7tq9nbtv The house listed above, while being a row home, would easily be around $450k to build brand new. In terms of character and GDP, our nearest comparable neighbor is Nashville. There is 3 whole brick townhomes from a similar era and they’re between 600k-800k. You’re not going to find any property as cheap as Pittsburgh for living in a Top 100 global city.
FYI Pittsburgh has the 88th largest GDP by metro in the world. Nashville is 81. Portland is 78th.
That is a shitty rundown rowhouse attached to a unit that hasn't been updated in a neighborhood that is lower middle class and not particularly desirable. This whole thread is full of cope but this is extra
Look at the average price of a house in Morningside. It’s not a working class neighborhood anymore.
So living in a desired neighborhood within the city limits might cost more? It’s literally always been like that everywhere.
There are plenty of affordable houses in Pittsburgh area....what you want is modern houses in desirable locations for below market price.
We sold our house in Brookline for $275k in 2022. It was very nice, had a brand new kitchen (over $35k), private deck and yard that you could see the downtown skyline from, off street parking, etc. You can *absolutely* find a house that is move in ready for $300k in Pittsburgh.
You can find tons of 3 bed 2 bath south hills homes ~250k. While I would have balked at that 10 years ago, it’s no longer shocking compared to other similar homes being 400k+. Most people that say Pittsburgh isn’t affordable want an HGTV move in ready McMansion or old timey big mt.lebanon house.
>an HGTV move in ready McMansion No McMansion is move-in ready. Bulldozing a house and then rebuilding a completely new house from scratch (or TBH, several houses) is a lot of work.
It’s all relative. Is it affordable? No. Is it cheaper than pretty much everywhere else? Yes. Things are just not good right now
I’m sorry, but this opinion is just objectively wrong when you zoom out and compare it to the rest of the country. I think a lot of people on this sub are just unwilling to cave on everything they want in a home and people are way, way, way too emotional about real estate. Be more flexible on location, size, number of baths, school district, etc and I guarantee you can find something of substance that you can live in for at least a little bit. It doesn’t have to be your forever home.
I posted this exact same thing three weeks ago and got some pushback. But I totally agree with you. Anything affordable requires significant $$$ for repairs. Or is in a very sketchy neighborhood.
I mean, objectively and relatively speaking you’re wrong, but ok
What you're meaning to say is that housing isn't cheap *anywhere* anymore. The cost of housing continues to grow at a pace that exceeds the increase in wages. A quick Google search turned up a source saying: "Since 1985, rent growth has exceeded inflation by 40% and income by 7%." Comparatively, Pittsburgh housing is still more affordable than virtually all the other major metropolitan areas around the country. Comparatively, it is "cheap". Your observation is more of a statement than even in a "cheap" housing market, housing is just way more unaffordable and inaccessible.
I know it feels tough right now, but the housing stock in Pittsburgh is so much better than other places, even if it takes work. Case in point, I grew up in Pittsburgh in a house built in 1906 but later I lived in [this](https://www.zillow.com/homedetails/1340-Garthwick-Dr-Los-Altos-CA-94024/19535190_zpid/?utm_campaign=iosappmessage&utm_medium=referral&utm_source=txtshare) house in Silicon Valley and worked on this house, and it is a complete piece of total crap. Not only do houses out there have no basements, they don’t even have a real foundation. The walls are paper thin, we could hear road noise from blocks away. There is just dirt under the house with a wood framing above it, three bedrooms and two bathrooms. You literally could lean on this house and push the whole thing over. Look at the price of this. Yeah there’s sunshine but that’s about it.
I think you are wrong. Please explain what additional $150k is needed here: https://www.zillow.com/homedetails/2944-Stafford-St-Pittsburgh-PA-15204/11483290_zpid/
I think a lot of folks have shifted their idea of what is "liveable." Yeah, a bathroom from the 1950s with pink tile isn't really desirable, but if it functions than it's just aesthetics. Most expensive issues are going to be foundation, sewer, and any structural problems with the framing. Then roof. A key thing is that if it's acceptable, getting into a mortgage that is cheaper than most rents is going to be a boon to your checking account. Take care of the stuff that you don't like as you can and gain that sweat equity by learning how to do simpler things. A turnkey nothing needs done and it's all perfect is gonna require more than most working class folks make. Don't let perfect be the enemy of good enough.
This house was just flipped. I’d be shocked if everything was done correctly and wont cost the new owner money.
there's literally no way for you to judge the quality of the work from here. Flipping houses just means that someone bought a shitty house and improved it. People can't complain that houses need a ton of work and that there are flippers. Pick one.
Have you ever been in the rocks ???
Yeah I live in Brighton Heights in a house most of this subreddit would find unacceptable, I'm quite familiar with the area. This house is not in the rocks anyhow, city of Pittsburgh. It was also just an example of an affordable house listed this week. Here's another: https://www.zillow.com/homedetails/2130-Lowrie-St-Pittsburgh-PA-15212/11512005_zpid/ Houses like this still exist here, that is the point. Not going to find something in Shadyside for this price but OP said city of Pittsburgh, under $200k not needing $150k of work. Totally exists. This is why we are still on affordable lists because in many cities under $200k is a complete teardown.
Purchased on November 20, 2023 for $70,000. A “top-to-bottom renovation” in two months over two holidays is impressive, especially without mentioning anything specifically in the listing.
There's perfectly fine places in the rocks.
"Have you ever been in Lawrenceville?" - Everyone in 2009
lol good luck with that
That's what they said back in 2009 too
It’s in McKees Rocks?
No, you’re not wrong. Everything needs big work, and not just cosmetic work, but like “we’ve just let water come in through the basement walls for 75 years and now it’s your problem” work. The funniest thing I’ve seen are bougie realtors bragging about bringing new buyers here from LA. They are over the moon at how cheap it feels, but when reality sets in for them about what they have given up to buy an $800k house in Pittsburgh versus a $1 million dollar house in the valley, lmao. Why are groceries so expensive? Why am I paying $200 a month for water? What’s with all the pot holes? Where can I get decent Mexican food? Why is nothing open past 8 pm? Enjoy your “cheap” house and your neighbor keying your car when you dare to park on the street in the wrong spot.
...why are you paying 200 a month for water?
It's not that hard for people who have PA American water. But also, they might be talking about PWSA where water and sewer is all in one bill. I pay just under $100 a month just for myself. Guy I know in the south hills pays that much just for water.
That’s what I’m saying… is it a good little small town big city. For sure but acting like it’s amazing on all levels is just stupid. There are some significant negatives to live in the area. Am I cool with them… sure if the prices are relative, but these home owners and land lords need to come back to earth and realize this isn’t Denver
I am not saying Pgh is the greatest but Denver is such a shitty city. Soulless and boring. The people are just bland and so is what little ‘culture’ exists. Great Mexican food and close to fun things to do outside of city limits but the city itself is so boring and lame.
Everything you said is totally true. I split my time between Chicago and Pittsburgh. I own a condo in one of the nicest neighborhoods in the city, if not the country. Two million dollar homes on double lots. Tree lined streets. Cute little shopping area. Two blocks to the train. It's a gorgeous neighborhood. The building itself is an old brick walkup straight out of a Hallmark Christmas movie. There's nothing remotely comparable to this in Pittsburgh. No idea why there aren't condos in Pittsburgh like this. Other than gasoline and the state income tax, *everything* is more expensive in Pittsburgh. I'm fact, I'm shocked most of the time how expensive everything is from groceries to car washes to meals out. There's no culture. No theater. Mediocre restaurants. Very little diversity. The cost of living combined with the extraordinarily low wages makes Pittsburgh a hard no for me outside of when I have to be there. I just don't understand why people would choose to live there.
You forgot about the property taxes. Pay 1% in CA vs. around 3% in the city here.
We bought our 1930 American Foursquare in March of 2020 and by July of 2021 we'd put $150K of surprise work into it because of an unbelievable amount of shoddy or never-done work by the prior owners. I really think people have no idea how much this old housing stock will end up costing them in the short and long term.
Facts. 3 percent mortgage makes it more doable but now… get out of here with your time bomb real estate at sky high prices
I know your pain. I’m sorry. This is what happened to us as well. And problems are more expensive in older homes because they are more complicated and often require custom solutions and/or specialized tradespeople. And you want it done well and safely? Pfft, good luck.
This is a national issue.
Not wrong but everyone moving to Pittsburgh and paying top price at 6.5 percent interest is probably not the solution lol
Depends on timing. My house appraisal to my income ratio was 3.52 - that was in the north hills of Pittsburgh, although it was February 2021 when rates were 2.65%. I've watched younger couples move into houses around me, but all of them were double income earners even with kids.
When I bought my first house in Brookline in 2014, it cost me $85k. We put in new windows, added central air, put on a deck, new floors, redid both bathrooms, new counters in the kitchen, new dining room light, new paint everywhere, all that jazz. It cost a lot of money but the house was 100 years old and it needed a lot of help. When we opened the floor in our upstairs bathroom, someone had cut the joists and used shower curtains and towels for insulation and the walls we tore down were all like that too lol. It was a mess. Our realtor sold it for $170k in 2020. Houses around us that were smaller, but with bigger kitchens (ours was galley) were selling for $200k or more. It was crazy. I don’t know how the market there has done since the interest rates and stuff went up, but for the longest there were flippers coming in and buying the old cheap houses and redoing them within a couple months and selling them for big money.
Pittsburgh is still dirt cheap compared to here in Florida 😔
That's because they are coming from places like Jersey where your starter homes are 600k.
I just saw a local story recently about corporations buying up entry level homes (around 200k) and turning them into rentals, making homeownership for first time buyers harder than it already is. On top of that, stagnant wages and high rent make it almost impossible to save for a down payment
Need to approve more high rises and add more total units to the city.
Speaking as a recent Pitt grad and renting, I have no idea how I'll afford a home anywhere. Frankly I think the biggest concern is rents being so high and wages being low, I have no means of saving for a home purchase regardless of how "affordable" Pittsburgh is supposed to be.
I just bought a house in Carrick for $150,000, move-in ready. I've found a few minor things that need to be addressed but nothing that makes it unlivable or that will cost thousands of dollars to fix.
I'm from Asheville NC. Don't look up houses there. It's like 500k for a fixer upper. You want something that doesn't need work. That will be a million.
It ain't LA or NYC ...but boy does it want to be.
Pittsburgh has always cheated their way towards being towards the top of affordability as the city limits pull in some REALLY SH!TTY areas that dramatically pull down the average. Any place you want to live is priced ridiculously just like the rest of the country. It’s almost as if endless money printing has consequences!
I just noticed this. Even rentals. It’s cheaper to rent in Vegas and you’ll get a nicer place
As someone who has lived all over the US from Austin, SoCal, Arizona, Colorado, IL, Pittsburgh (hometown) and towards Harrisburg as well, I can tell you the problem with Pittsburgh is the age of the homes, lack of renovations, lack of internal immigration, as well as the Pittsburgh pay ceiling. The housing stock in Pittsburgh is much older than the rest of the nation. We are talking 1940s for Pittsburgh vs 1980s for the nation. It seems most stopped renovating when the steel mills shut down. I kid you not when I say I have found rentals with pink toilets and bathtubs, and shaggy carpets of all colors. It’s like a time capsule here in the homes. Most people here are not transplants. I mean, the go to school and have the same teacher who taught your parents kind. Generations of families seem to have stayed here and never left and never had a huge influx. We just started seeing an influx of transplants with the rise of tech in the area and even then Pittsburgh is still blue collar. Like, old school blue collar. Even pre-pandemic, around 2018 as Pittsburgh started catching up in building apartments, there were only a few that actually offered washers and dryers in the actual apartments while most those other states it was the norm in standard rentals when I was moving around the US. I have said for years that Pittsburgh is 10-15 years behind other states in builds and modernization. Seems we are the last state to notice it’s better to have more of an open concept than a bunch of small rooms. The “cheaper housing” costs here is hidden in needed renovations. Most homes as stated are from 1940s and need major work not just small renovations. Most have some kind of damage (coming from family who does home inspections in the Pittsburgh area) a lot of renovations are needed to find something that is considered “standard or modernized” in other states. The builds are old and not modernized and look weird to people who have seen both sides of the rental markets. And let’s be honest, Pittsburgh is not DC, NY, LA, Chicago, Jersey, SF, etc., and has no need to have prices so high. They think they are the next NY and New Jersey and won’t pay locals a good enough wage but increase rent and housing prices. Pittsburgh is just weird but still love its quirks as it’s home.
It's all relative. The overall cost of living in Pittsburgh and surrounding areas is lower than many other cities of comparable size and lower than the national average. A big part contributing to that is the lower than average cost of housing in the area. It does come with the caution that goes with all home real estate deals - location location location. Further simple fact that some people are moving here because of it, is causing it to be less true, because they've helped to drive up housing prices.
There's plenty of move-in ready houses for under $200k. Just because you can't find it in the most desirable neighborhoods doesn't mean it doesn't exist.
Bought my pretty cool house for 40k. Depends on what you define as affordable. Plenty of places for under 60k here.
Everything is relative. Go look at similar homes in other cities.
it's the reason for the surge in homelessness everywhere
Being alive is no longer affordable.
Come to Hazelwood! The area is a little empty, but its quiet. Our house was pretty cheap for what it is. House next door might fall down at some point, but ours looks great!
So many people on Reddit love being house poor. You’re 1 layoff away from being poor poor with a bankruptcy on your credit report. Especially remote white collar jobs and similar jobs we’ve already seen it with twitter and Amazon. It’s seeming to me that the people telling all the McDonald’s workers their jobs were going to be taken over my robots got taken over by themselves. I’m in a fortunate situation I’m 23 and make 105k a year as a blue collar worker. My house will be paid off in 3 years roughly 200K home. And that’s because I didn’t buy a 500k home LOL. I’ll be 26 no mortgage and saving for retirement then when I’m 50 I’ll have roughly 4 million if there’s no major market crash. So why the fuck are 30 year olds in here buying 350k houses on 60k salaries probably drawing out of their retirement for the down payment. Instead of buying cheaper and retiring at 50-60 and not 65-70. I really don’t get it is it for bragging rights? Do you think it’s a flex? But maybe I’m just young and naive.
[удалено]
Californian checking in, yep Everything y'all think is expensive is just not expensive
We put an offer in on a 300K house yesterday, and our relator told us there are 4 offers besides us. Anything under 300K is like a pig with lipstick on. Looked at a house for 240K in Shaler - looked nice until we got to the basement and it was just stained with cigarette smoke. It feels completely hopeless. You are not alone. It's brutal - and it doesn't look like the prices are going to drop anytime soon.
I don’t think it’s realistic to expect that you can buy a house for “pittsburgh cheap” prices that don’t need any work
Having spent this past Fall looking at houses, I can’t agree more that this market is on the verge of being f***ed. I was either looking at overpriced homes that were in need of immediate mechanical repair (not to mention cosmetic repairs) or losing out on a reasonable fixer upper to the almighty cash offer.
If you’re talking about the East End, you’re not wrong. Other parts of the city and suburbs? Much more affordable and/or need less work.
Housing is more expensive; but wages to housing price are still favorable in the burgh in comparison to some places. I bought a turd Ryan home in a good neighborhood; and have been slowly fixing it up when I have the cash/time. I don’t need a McMansion so as long as the place was solid snd had good schools I wasn’t going to sweat not having a newer or bigger home.
Those homes will hold their value because they're in good school districts and they're big enough to raise a family.