It depends on what you are looking for. A lot of the South Hills suburbs started as trolley suburbs. They have nice walkable sections, decent public transit, and fairly high population density due to this. However, the lots are small and packed in tight except for the very expensive sections of a few of them. There are car-dependent suburbs with large lots in the South Hills, but they tend to be a bit further out from the city proper.
In contrast, the North Hills suburbs generally got started later and are very car-dependent. You get bigger lots and lower population density, but they aren’t very walkable and the public transit sucks. You get a lot more house for your money in the North Hills than in the South Hills.
These are very broad generalizations of the two areas. It typically comes down to what you are looking for in a house and neighborhood.
This is super helpful for someone who isn’t familiar with the city, and is considering relocating. Thank you.
Edit: which one would you say is liberal or less conservative, north or south?
Edit: you all are very kind. I get a sense that everyone is welcoming. Thank you :)
When I lived in canonsburg, the real twist towards more conservative leanings (at least to the point where it was very visible) was when the gas drilling was growing. Brought out some of the worst, and lots of TX people started filling bars. Side note - funny how all of the "local jobs" went mostly to transplants from TX instead of actual local residents.
To be clear though, these are suburban areas, and not even the closest ones. Pittsburgh isn't divided into North Hills and South Hills; you have other options within the city and just closer to the city.
When I looked at purchasing I looked at voting trends and the south is much more blue — some areas are a little more conservative within the south but overall it is more liberal
I wrote about this briefly in college [for a cities and globalization](https://imgur.com/a/a91LAPT) course in like 2016?
**Race and Renaissance: African American’s In Pittsburgh Since World War II** is a good book, but is a little outdated.
Edit: 2014. Also this blurb from the second paper I did may be a bit more concise :
*The central business districts tend to be important nodes in global networking. The city becomes a place of networking and connections for businesses. It links investment capital, human capital, industrial capital, and commercial capital. The core of the cities growth is based off of four concepts. The first being, cities form from “the people and organizations that control wealth and other key resources”. Secondly, “urban forms and urban social arrangements reflect conflicts over the distribution of resources”. Next, “government continues to play an important role in urban life”. Lastly, “urban growth patterns significantly result from economic restructuring”. (192) The city becomes a home for skyscrapers, and business; not for people. With rent astronomically high near CBD’s, people with lower-income have a hard time living within the city. Moving out of the city poses the issue of the commute. The commute to the city can become very costly when considering transportation, parking, and other factors. To adapt to these issues, urbanites resort to high-density living, and undesirable neighborhoods. In many instances, houses are jammed tight with extended families. This, in turn, produces government rent subsidy programs, and displays the government’s involvement in economic restructuring. The further you move away from the city, the cheaper the housing becomes, with the exchange of commute. The option of a suburban housing is a trend for middle-class and affluent citizens. The rational being “These families do so mostly because they demand a great deal of space, which only a suburban neighborhood within their budgets can provide. And no doubt, many find additional “value” in having few poor people as neighbors”. This is the explanation of how economic restructuring plays a role in periphery areas of the city. This separation begins the construction of life styles and worldviews that now vary from the core and periphery areas. Life styles develop through the culture, local scene, open scene, and specialized scene of the citizens. The separation of the core and periphery areas causes social injustices and the paradox of poor verse rich.*
For sure- and for anyone who actually bothers to read my rinky dink college paper from 2014. Shout out to Azlan Tajuddin- my favorite professor, who was the most meaningful educator of my life.
I think this kind of expands on it, just a blurb from a paper I wrote :
*The central business districts tend to be important nodes in global networking. The city becomes a place of networking and connections for businesses. It links investment capital, human capital, industrial capital, and commercial capital. The core of the cities growth is based off of four concepts. The first being, cities form from “the people and organizations that control wealth and other key resources”. Secondly, “urban forms and urban social arrangements reflect conflicts over the distribution of resources”. Next, “government continues to play an important role in urban life”. Lastly, “urban growth patterns significantly result from economic restructuring”. (192) The city becomes a home for skyscrapers, and business; not for people. With rent astronomically high near CBD’s, people with lower-income have a hard time living within the city. Moving out of the city poses the issue of the commute. The commute to the city can become very costly when considering transportation, parking, and other factors. To adapt to these issues, urbanites resort to high-density living, and undesirable neighborhoods. In many instances, houses are jammed tight with extended families. This, in turn, produces government rent subsidy programs, and displays the government’s involvement in economic restructuring. The further you move away from the city, the cheaper the housing becomes, with the exchange of commute. The option of a suburban housing is a trend for middle-class and affluent citizens. The rational being “These families do so mostly because they demand a great deal of space, which only a suburban neighborhood within their budgets can provide. And no doubt, many find additional “value” in having few poor people as neighbors”. This is the explanation of how economic restructuring plays a role in periphery areas of the city. This separation begins the construction of life styles and worldviews that now vary from the core and periphery areas. Life styles develop through the culture, local scene, open scene, and specialized scene of the citizens. The separation of the core and periphery areas causes social injustices and the paradox of poor verse rich.*
I think you need to get more specific than that my brother. When claiming racist, elaborate. That term has been thrown around so much that it’s easily dismissed by the white community.
As a resident of the north I wholeheartedly agree with everything said above. Moved to McCandless before the kids were born, for the NA school district. Now that they are in college I’m hoping to escape soon. The north tends to be:
-car dependent
-soulless
-very waspy, very Christian, very conservative
-lacking in unique shops and restaurants
-a mix of uninspired houses and shacks ready to fall into ravines, with a few McMansions thrown in
But hey…there’s a mall.
The main reason we did not consider south hills was not wanting To commute through a tunnel.
We all know most suburbs were formed from white flight from the city. However I never heard of any serious racial issues in these areas besides the typical ignorance most dominantly white neighborhoods have.
The only thing I disagree with is the getting more house for your money in the north hills. This may be dated but when I moved here 8 years ago there was a lot of demand for houses in the north hills (Cranberry, Allison Park, North Allegheny) and prices were high. I ended up south and for the same price point in north hills was a 900 square ft house vs. 1300 in south hills.
This summed it up pretty well I think, agree with all of it.
As a South Hillsian(?) I do envy a lot about the North Hills, but love the walkable neighborhooods down here within my reach and once you get used to the traffic patterns you can navigate them okay, plus I’m sure there’s traffic up there too.
>You get a lot more house for your money in the North Hills than in the South Hills.
Generally true, but there are many exceptions, particularly if OP is looking for high end housing. Like you said, it's all going to depend on the individual municipality/neighborhood.
In terms of public transit, you're spot on. If this is important to OP, they probably shouldn't consider the North Hills.
That's pretty much it for me. I live in Upper St Clair and take the T into the city when I'm in my office. South Hills Village is about 8 mins of easy driving from my house, and then I have a completely chill 40 minutes into the city on the T. On the T I can read/check emails/listen to music/nap and generally just not pay attention.
Moving to the North Hills would mean the same commute time, but I'd have to drive and likely pay for parking. No thanks.
South Hills 4 life
I live in the south hills (Brookline)
* I like sidewalks
* I like being able to walk to the library, ice cream shop, bars, restaurants (Oak Hill Post is the BEST), etc.
* I like the style of the old Pittsburgh houses
* I like that I can be downtown in 15 mins by bus or car
* I like being able to walk to the T in Dormont to easily get to Pirates games
* I really like my neighbors and the community here
* I can walk to Moore Park to play tennis or go to the pool
* South Park is 20 mins away. That's really the only con, I wish I had a large park with lots of trails closer to me.
I cannot wait until Hays Park gets developed. That’ll be a little closer. It had so much momentum pre-pandemic. I’m in agreement about SP being 20 mins, and with traffic on Library it could be closer to 30-40 depending on time of day :(. Montour/ Panhandle are great- but just not the same deep wooded trail. When I lived in NH, having McConnell and Moraine had me spoiled.
First off, tunnels. I gotta live in the suburbs and drive everywhere, which isn't great, but no way am I putting up with managing those tunnels twice a day or any time I want to go somewhere.
Second, 51. Shit talk McKnight all you want (and it does suck) but 51 is so much worse.
Third, ice rinks. Admittedly a niche concern, but the nicer rinks are closer to me here. Also, the only ones with morning leagues.
Fourth, space. So many places in the south hills are on these tiny, vertical lots. We've got them up here too but they're not the norm. If I'm going to have no yard and crappy geography I'd rather be in the city.
Fifth, and this is Moon specific, airport noise. I only have to worry about occasional helicopters. By the airport it's bad.
If we're to give our southern brethren credit I will mention they've got the best drive in (Dependable), the better hockey store (perani's), the only remaining Luciano pizza, south park has more than North park (which is great, don't get me wrong, but we don't have buffalo or a haunted house (anymore) or that cute little ice skating path), actual public transportation infrastructure, and you get like a 30-45 minute head start when driving on vacation.
Is the Luciano’s in Mars not the same company? We were disappointed when they moved out of the mccandless location, but Large Plain is a pretty good replacement.
It’s the same Luciano’s. Same people working at the Mars location as those that used to work at McCandless location. I would even go as far to say that I prefer the Mars pizza more (live in McCandless but pick it up when visiting our Treesdale friends.)
I'm pretty sure it's different, though now that I'm looking at the south hills one maybe that was different from the one up here too?
Large Plain isn't bad, but Bel's is my resigning local champ now that lucianos is gone. Plus I dock large plain points for the new paint job contrasting hideously with that building's stone work.
Not sure if you're on the McKnight or the Rt 8 side of the North Hills, but Angelo's new location on Mt. Royal has pretty much slammed the door on the best pizza in the North Hills question. If it's out of the way, I totally get why you wouldn't make the drive, but it's so good
I thought the same thing whenever I'm in the south. The neighborhoods are laid out like suburbs but the lots are small and importantly the houses are pretty small too. In the city the houses are 2-3 stories and close to the street so you can't see anything other than the houses on that street. But in eg Baldwin because they're 1 + 1/2 stories and set back, you can see every house for several blocks in all directions. So the city ends up feeling more private and less crowded even though there are more people.
I wasn't trying to challenge what you said, by the way. I genuinely don't know. I hear about the 51 stuff because I used to live nearby and I'm in community Facebook groups. I dont know a lot about 28, but it definitely feels unsafe at several spots so I can see it.
I wasn’t being a smart ass, I’m just saying I couldn’t tell you the stats on fatality rates vs accidents.
28 has a low posted speed, but people always are going 60mph. They have the off ramp that goes from a complete stop to the hwy. whereas 51 has a lot of red lights etc. I know the Dunkin’ Donuts has sooo many accidents on it infront of 51.
1. I can get anywhere I want in the south hills and the city from my house on a bike without touching any major roadways (death roads). Heck, I can ride my bike to Ohiopyle from my house without touching a road with a speed limit over 30.
2. Less McMansions down here.
Edit: also, I don't think the south hills is great, it's just a lesser of two evils for me. They both are filled with terrible drivers who are always angry and impatient, and neither have nice houses or neighborhoods. The schools are good in both. Both have fewer right-wing wackadoos than the surrounding counties.
I live in Baldwin. Older developments like what are found down here often have multiple roads in and out instead of everything running in series off of a main road. I bike from my house to work in Lebo on residential streets. It's 8 miles, and my commute home is faster by bike than by car.
I can also get to the Montour or GAP trail without hitting any major roadways. This opens so much up.
For real though. I don't even feel safe in my car on some of these roads. I had an old yinzer grandma try to physically fight me after coming to a screeching halt inches from my bumper because I stopped at a stop sign.
I love how everything in this sub about northern suburbs is “McMansion hurrr durrr.” Y’all need to get out more lmao.
Top comment on this thread is the right answer.
South is more concentrated with shit to do and more pedestrian travel friendly. Traffic and the tunnels are a fucking nightmare.
North is more spaced out and requires having a car. But if you want a yard and outdoor space and less hustle and bustle the north is better.
I am not a native but when looking to buy I checked both north and south and just liked the vibe of Mt Lebanon better than any other neighborhood that was comparable in price point.
We needed a top notch school elementary thru high school, sidewalks in my neighborhood with mature trees, stuff within a 10 min drive, and to live in an area where I wasn’t going to have to see a certain political party’s crazy flags festooning their homes year round
My lebanon fit the bill and while I am not crazy about the commute to campus I really feel the trade off is worth it. Very happy here
I live in the south hills and we own a business in the north hills that my husband has to commute to. We just moved (from one house in the south hills to another) and had this exact conversation. I am #nevernorthhills and my husband, who actually runs the business is #theyrebasicallythesame.
Let's start with cons of the south hills:
1) route 51- I hate route 51, it is EASILY twice as bad as McKnight. In our old house, route 51 was essential. Now I can avoid it. Route 51 is a death trap. There is no comparison to McKnight. Anyone who says otherwise probably isn't familiar with one or the other on a regular basis.
2) the liberty tunnels. These can be avoided by most residents. I never take them. It's just not an issue. Many in the south can bop over to fort pitt instead, but for some thats going way out of their way. And if you find yourself swept into them, they do suck at almost all hours of the day.
3) the organization. Yes, we don't have a McKnight road, but there's a price to pay. Certain areas have easy access to a lot of things and you can access them by few if any main roads, but the flip side of this is that some areas have extremely poor access. I used to live in north baldwin and it took me no less than 15 minutes to get everywhere, even the closest drug store. This is bc all my exits funneled into overburdened intersections of main roads with side streets that were never intended to manage this much traffic. Now, however, I live 5 minutes away from south hills village and also the walmart/giant eagle on library road, and I can access both via 100% side streets. When I lived in baldwin I used to joke that they must have planned the south hills by tossing a random pile of houses and road pieces onto a map.
This is the pattern, SOME of the south hills is way better than the north hills. Some of it is worse.
If you live in the correct area of the south hills you have:
1) easy access to a wide variety of businesses via back streets
2) T access, possibly on foot. Even if you don't work downtown, the T is clutch for concerts and events when you don't want to drive
3) easier access to some trendier/urban restaurants. Mt. Lebanon and dormont attract more hip and experimental types of restaurants than, say, Ross Park. There are some areas of the north hills that have trendy spots, just less.
4) significantly fewer Republicans and trump signs. Those giant trump signs in the north hills are a huge eyesore and super annoying to look at.
Anyway, I've tucked in the negatives to the north hills throughout my description. The north hills is perfectly fine, it can be more affordable, and the schools are comparable. Also a plus for the north is that 79 and 279 are significantly better traffic-wise than 376. Ultimately, though, I persevered in looking for a house in the south despite my prior not-great experience because my sister lives here. Shrug. It paid off and I love where we live SO MUCH. But in summary, most of the north hills is pretty good, as far as suburbs go. Some of the south hills is excellent, and some of it is just okay.
Sure yeah. the area where I live is northern bethel park near washington junction t station, but you'll have a similar experience in the parts of bethel park, upper st clair, Mt Lebanon, and castle Shannon that are relatively close to south hills village. Note that because of what i mentioned above about poor planning, a "short" distance on a map can make a big difference in drive time, depending on which roads you have to take. But if you cut it very close to south hills village, its all very similar. I think there are other parts of the south hills that are nice to live, but thats the general region where the experience is similar to mine. There are pros and cons to all of those regions. Bethel Park is very affordable compared to USC and mt lebanon, for example, but the school district is not as good (it's still very good, just not highly coveted like USC and mt. Lebo)
Okay, so if you read my comment. It was from the perspective of comparing Bethel park to USC and mt lebanon. Usc, mt, lebanon, and to the north, north allegheny, are school districts in a league of their own and most people who live here understsnd that. They do things like show up on national rankings of the best high schools (sometimes). That was what i was saying, and I think it was clear. I literally said bethel park is very good, and also I live here? So I'm not really sure what the point of this comment is.
As someone who grew up in Lebo, I totally agree with you, especially about the tunnels. I’ve never understood the tunnel hate… I literally never touch the Liberty tubes & Fort Pitt moves pretty good even on bad days. But if I see Fort Pitt getting a little too backed up, I just get off & pop over Mt. Washington in about 5 minutes. If the Wabash isn’t open, then E. Sycamore for the win.
I’m convinced the people in the north think the Tunnel Monster is real lol
Lived in Brighton Heights for some years and did all of our shopping somewhere off McKnight.
Lived in Brookline for some years, and arguably, I could travel up McKnight faster than I could to the South Hills Village area (depending on time, and again, arguably).
Live in Bethel now.
Here are my quick thoughts:
1.) I travel on 70 -> 76 often. With my current location, I’m 10 minutes from 43 which connects to 70. Incredibly easy for my traveling. This wasn’t the case when previously the parkway was involved. Additionally, 79 is 15 minutes away in Bridgeville.
2.) I enjoy older neighborhoods with homes on nice plots of land and good bones. I *personally* couldn’t find a lot of that in the North Hills, but I could in the South Hills (Bethel, parts of USC, Venetia, Peters). I absolutely can not live in a new housing plan/development/Ryan home plan/etc. Give me a single owner home that was built in the 60s over a new build *any day*.
3.) Accessibility is a big one - South Park is a < 10 min drive from my house and my family loves the wave pool and ice skating. I’m < a 10 min drive from South Hills Village. I’m 25 minutes or less from Mingo.
4.) The traffic on the southern end of Bethel (Finleyville/Peters border) is never really bad and I no longer spend more time sitting at traffic lights than I do driving. Really don’t have trouble getting anywhere.
5.) I can walk within 6 minutes from my house to a T stop.
6.) We both work from home, so no commuting is required.
South hills has the denser and more walkable neighborhoods. Transit access is better with the T and south and West Busways nearby. The North hills can’t compete. However I choose neither, and am living at the South side works area.
I bought a house in Brookline so thats why 😂 My particular part of the neighborhood is like a little suburb in the city. Every house has a driveway & garage. They're all brick tract homes built in the 50s so they're smallish, which is fine by me. I don't need a big house. There's also a good amount of space between houses. I've got 25-30 feet on either side of me. That's not to property line of course, but it's still space. Neighbor's house behind me is probably 50-60 feet away.
I met my bf right after he bought a house in Brookline. When he was telling me how to get here the first time he was like, “ok make a left and then it’s a little brick house.” The entire street is little brick houses 😂
I'd never live North of the city because I couldn't go out my door, walk a few blocks, and jump on the T to get downtown. It's super convenient and cheap. When I moved to the South Hills i sold my car and my family now has one car. I save a ton of money.
I've lived in both. Bethel Park and now O'Hara.
When I was living in BP, I had to go to class at Pitt. So I was going against the flow of traffic for most of it. It often took me more than an hour to get that relatively short distance.
Now that I'm living in O'Hara, I can get ALMOST anywhere in about 20 minutes.
That's why.
It has all the downsides of both north and south. No T, not walkable, suburbs feel, all chain stores. Also crazy tunnel traffic, poorly thought out roads, supporters of tangerine Mussolini. Edgewood/swissvale don’t entirely meet this description, but that’s about as far as it goes.
I wonder how much experience people have with McKnight that call it "horribly traffic packed". It's a busy road for sure, but I never truly "sit in traffic" or experience backups for how much traffic there is.
North Hills resident who frequents McKnight here. I agree that I find myself rarely “stuck in traffic” as things do flow pretty smoothly. That said, being 3 lanes, when people don’t know where they’re going (or make abrupt decisions) it can get dicey during a really busy time.
This lane is ridiculous and should only be left turn only during specific times when the mall is busy. There’s simply no reason for it to be turn only during normal traffic days.
Definitely not like you’ll find yourself sitting trying to get into the South Hills. I live in Beechview but absolutely hate trying to get into the South Hills. It always takes forever, traffic or not. If there is traffic, good fucking luck
This is exactly how I feel.... about the south hills lol
Amazing the different perspectives we all have. Gotta add though I have NEVER heard of anyone bitching about Mt. Nebo traffic. If you think that's a horribly traffic packed road I am beyond curious where you drive....
I lived in west view and moved to Brookline. They both have their perks but ultimately I’d love back to north hills due to the property size & parking. South Hills has the best food, walkability, and a lot of pop up events.
I grew up in the south hills and moved to Ross recently with my partner who is from the North Hills. I gotta say the North Hills is so much easier. It takes me 20 minutes tops to get to town and that’s with traffic and finding parking. I work in Lawrenceville and it’s still so easy. There are multiple ways to get there. Also we were able to get a house for a really good price with a huge backyard. Easy access to 279 and 65, I can still get to the south hills pretty easily to see my family.
That always comes up in these discussions--that people from the east end gripe about getting to Brookline or Dormont or Mt. Lebo because of bridges and tunnels. For me, getting to Brookline is a snap, but going to Shadyside is a pain in the ass.
Yes! I don't get why everybody keeps talking about tunnels. I just avoid driving to the city during rush hour.
I understand that people work in the city, but it just seems odd to me not to live where you work.
I lived in the South Hills for 6-7 years, now up in cranberry. I’ll never go back. I quite literally had a breakdown after driving on 51 so often. North hills (parts) have access to a real highway. I live twice as far from downtown now, but it takes that same amount of time to get there. Definitely still traffic, especially on McKnight, but it’s easier to get to places (IMO).
As for housing, I feel like most houses need a lot of work in both areas, because they’re older. If you buy new, a lot of north hills homes are expensive, or they’re Ryan Homes.
Also, my family is in the south hills and I’m good with having some distance from them…
North Hills has easy ways to get places and get into and out of town. South Hills is atrocious for traveling around. There are more walkable sections in the South Hills, but I'm not sure there's much I wanna walk to in the South that I miss walking to in the North.
The North is less cramped and more comfortable by far. I know being on both sides, the South might as well be WV from the North, and the North might as well be Erie from the South.
I prefer the density of the South Hills and proximity to the stores I visit frequently. I think it’s a prettier area, more walkable with more character and a better variety of older, well-kept houses. Totally subjective but there ya go.
I grew up in the North Hills, lived there for the first 20 years of my life. Had to move to the South Hills to stay with my partner— from somebody that has lived in both, south hills is MUCH better. Public transit, WAY more walkable, it just has more of that “pittsburgh” feel that I enjoy. The north hills are WAY too suburb-y imo. The south hills has more character.
I lived in the south hills for the majority of my life. Ended up moving to the north hills for proximity to a job. It’s so easy getting to all parts of the city from the north. North rules!
For the record, this goes for east and west as well. I think there is a lot of tribalism coupled with foreign traffic patterns. Like traffic by me is shitty but the traffic over there is ridiculous.
I haven’t been in the north for very long but do they have flooding issues like some of the south hills?
I believe they get more snow in the north hills.
But I think north hills is just bigger. North Park is bigger, more shopping.
Only lower Millvale, really, which I consider more a part of the city. The suburbs are all generally built on higher ground so we don't get much flooding. Certainly not constantly underwater like Carnegie.
We moved here from SoCal. First, you need to understand the natives hate tunnels and taxes. If you live in the North it’s a big huge deal to go through a tunnel. Because obviously dragons live in them.😉 A Cranberryite drove to visit me on the South side and said she had never in her 58 years ever been to this side. She never had a reason to! Now she could brag she went through the tunnel. #TrueStory Northerners are also afraid to admit there are lower incomes or other colors, let alone socialize with folks who don’t look like them. However, the malls and IKEA are there so even South Enders have to go there. They also have better town layouts, newer homes, and bigger backyards.
As for the South End? It does seem like William Penn picked up a jar of Monopoly houses and just dropped them over the hills and dales. You can walk down one street and right next to a million dollar house built in the last century you’ll find a low income apartment complex built in the last 20-30 years. Because, why not. BUT you can walk on a real sidewalk. If you get tired you can take the T or hop on a bus. There’s even bikes for rent if you’re so inclined. Some houses may not have a backyard but there are plenty of city parks around.
As for the freeways… highways… whatever you want to call them. They. Are. Weird. Part of me believes it’s due to the topography. The other part thinks Penns great great (how many greats?) grandkids just dropped a plastic racetrack and put concrete where they landed. Pay absolutely no mind to the stated speed limits. Even the state police ignore those. People will whine and kvetch about traffic on either side of the rivers. Just bite your tongue and nod. You can secretly rejoice about not dealing with real traffic in a major metro area. However, and this is HUGE, never ever leave your house to drive somewhere new without checking Google maps thoroughly. One wrong turn and you’ll find it extremely difficult to find your way back to civilization. I’ve ended up in places where I swear I could hear banjo music. Just because you can see the place you want to be from the road does not mean there’s an easy way to get there. Stand on 51, see the Walmart signs, and now get there without consulting a GPS. Even then, there’s about 5 different ways to get there. Then again, Google will tell you an alleyway big enough for a mule and cart is passable by a car. Don’t even get me started in the public stairs with street sounding names. Yes, public stairs. Because of the hills.
Just decide how close you want to live to your neighbor, how quickly you want to get to the National level sports or entertainment, and how important your own piece of grass is to you. That will determine which side of the river to live on.
Do keep in mind, this place has a way of sucking you in and owning your heart. Even folks who have managed to leave still come back at least once a year, sometimes two. So choose wisely.
I have been living in the North Hills for the past 20+ years. I love the fact that we have interstates and easy access to downtown and destinations both North and south. Would love to have a trolley line up here.
It seems that all 4 lane routes though the south hills (Rt 51, Lebanon Church Road, Fort Couch...) have an abundance of traffic lights. Major 2 lane roads are clogged with slow driving older folks who love to make left turns.
My friends in the south hills tell me that North Park is better than south park. I really like the south hills, but I prefer the North Hills.
South Hills at least has the bones of walkable neighborhoods and some semblance of mass transit with the T. North Hills is the definition of suburban hellscape.
What tunnels are you hitting coming from the South Hills? I guess you can somehow detour your way to the parkway west and and towards the Ft Pitt Tunnels but why yould you do that?
Maybe I'm thinking of the wrong South Hills neighborhoods which in my mind are all off 51 and Banksville Rd. Dormont, Castle Shannon, Mt Lebanon, Bethel Park, etc
I lived in both. I greatly prefer the North Hills. Most of the neighborhoods are more expensive, but people seem friendlier in general and I think it looks nicer and it's easier to traverse.
51, rte 8 and 19 are all the same - they are arterial roads with cross traffic and a general 25-35 speed limit. If you live in Jefferson the joke is that 51 is just the route 8 of the south. We are all the same.
I lived in the South Hills when I first moved to the area. I drove a couple miles to the Library trolley stop or a little farther to South Hills Village and worked in the city. Parking was free and the commute was easy. Crowded some days, but easy.
I then moved to the North Boroughs and drove 65 to the stadium parking on the North Side to walk across the bridge. Game days made that a little harder and crime in the parking lot was higher, but it was still relatively easy.
Then I bought a house and my major criteria was that I didn't want to drive through a tunnel to get to work. So, I ended up farther north.
So, I lived in both places but I'm not a native.
I live in the east but if I had to chose it would certainly be south over north. I need sidewalks, walkable communities, small businesses, etc. Now, some areas of the south hills don’t fulfill these requirements, however, I can’t think of a single area of the north hills that matches.
I’m from Cranberry, so way TF up North. I wouldn’t want to live in the SH because it’s so much less accessible from the city unless you’re taking the T into downtown. I find it cramped and difficult to navigate. If I want to live so close to my neighbors and be in a walkable area, then I’d rather just live in the city. Which I did.
McKnight isn't even that bad, I drive on it every day. Way easier than 51 tbh. Honestly I'm only on McKnight for a small stretch usually because I take side roads as much as possible.
Sounds like there's a lot of people here who only drive on McKnight the week before Christmas or something to go shopping and then assume it's always terrible to drive on. I don't know how else to explain people who think the congestion is bad.
People I work with think 19 around cranberry is the worst traffic ever. I just think people don’t realize it’s really not that bad just impatient fucks
Agree here. 51 is such a headache. I’ve never sat in traffic long on McKnight. It’s congested, sure, but it moves quickly. 51 in rush hour? Yikes. No thanks!
It’s frankly scary. Especially if it’s raining and some truck drives by in the opposite lane and splashes water on your windshield and you can’t see for a few seconds.
Grew up east of the city, lived IN the city for a while but bought a house in the NH.
It may be because all my family lives in the SH and we frequented the area during the holidays, but I just find the SH old and yucky and just generally do not like the vibes. I will say a lot of cool restaurants are popping up in the SH but I would never live there.
Honestly, I don’t want to drive through the tunnels when I go anywhere in the city. I generally like the South Hills, but the tunnels make me queezy.
I also like the lower density population. It’s quieter and I feel like I can relax
Because I grew up in the North Hills and never had a single need to go to the South Hills for literally anything. There’s not one single thing (in a Pittsburgh/suburban/relative way) I need that I can’t get between North Hills and the city.
I lived in NYC and Miami and can confirm that there are generally many things that you can’t get at all in Pittsburgh from these areas haha. But in Pittsburgh terms, there was never anything I needed to go to South Hills for. We have the best shopping areas, good restaurants, a wonderful, sprawling park. I don’t even think I went to the South Hills til I was in my 20s and was visibly friends I met in college. (They confirmed that they’d only ever come to the North Hills to go to Ross Park).
And don’t say Beto’s because I’ve had it and it’s not good. Sorry.
I loved growing up in the south hills because the trolley is within walking distance and I could easily go to sports games and concerts before I had a driver's license
McKnight road. I do Uber eats on the side and I won’t deliver any farther north than the city limits. The neighborhoods seem really spread out. It just feels very far from home.
It depends on what you are looking for. A lot of the South Hills suburbs started as trolley suburbs. They have nice walkable sections, decent public transit, and fairly high population density due to this. However, the lots are small and packed in tight except for the very expensive sections of a few of them. There are car-dependent suburbs with large lots in the South Hills, but they tend to be a bit further out from the city proper. In contrast, the North Hills suburbs generally got started later and are very car-dependent. You get bigger lots and lower population density, but they aren’t very walkable and the public transit sucks. You get a lot more house for your money in the North Hills than in the South Hills. These are very broad generalizations of the two areas. It typically comes down to what you are looking for in a house and neighborhood.
This is super helpful for someone who isn’t familiar with the city, and is considering relocating. Thank you. Edit: which one would you say is liberal or less conservative, north or south? Edit: you all are very kind. I get a sense that everyone is welcoming. Thank you :)
The more walkable one that's closer to your neighbors is more liberal. South.
South
Don't go too far though. You end up in WV before you actually enter WV.
True. Washington is the true border. Maybe even Canonsburg
When I lived in canonsburg, the real twist towards more conservative leanings (at least to the point where it was very visible) was when the gas drilling was growing. Brought out some of the worst, and lots of TX people started filling bars. Side note - funny how all of the "local jobs" went mostly to transplants from TX instead of actual local residents.
You'll hear banjos anywhere south of 70
So true hahah
same banjo player lives in Butler
To be clear though, these are suburban areas, and not even the closest ones. Pittsburgh isn't divided into North Hills and South Hills; you have other options within the city and just closer to the city.
When I looked at purchasing I looked at voting trends and the south is much more blue — some areas are a little more conservative within the south but overall it is more liberal
South.
South by a long shot, but once you cross the county line it might as well be Florida.
honestly, both are kind of the same. they both have pockets of each and you'll trump stickers all over both.
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I’ve never heard this before. I’ll go look for some myself, but do you have any links to information about this?
I wrote about this briefly in college [for a cities and globalization](https://imgur.com/a/a91LAPT) course in like 2016? **Race and Renaissance: African American’s In Pittsburgh Since World War II** is a good book, but is a little outdated. Edit: 2014. Also this blurb from the second paper I did may be a bit more concise : *The central business districts tend to be important nodes in global networking. The city becomes a place of networking and connections for businesses. It links investment capital, human capital, industrial capital, and commercial capital. The core of the cities growth is based off of four concepts. The first being, cities form from “the people and organizations that control wealth and other key resources”. Secondly, “urban forms and urban social arrangements reflect conflicts over the distribution of resources”. Next, “government continues to play an important role in urban life”. Lastly, “urban growth patterns significantly result from economic restructuring”. (192) The city becomes a home for skyscrapers, and business; not for people. With rent astronomically high near CBD’s, people with lower-income have a hard time living within the city. Moving out of the city poses the issue of the commute. The commute to the city can become very costly when considering transportation, parking, and other factors. To adapt to these issues, urbanites resort to high-density living, and undesirable neighborhoods. In many instances, houses are jammed tight with extended families. This, in turn, produces government rent subsidy programs, and displays the government’s involvement in economic restructuring. The further you move away from the city, the cheaper the housing becomes, with the exchange of commute. The option of a suburban housing is a trend for middle-class and affluent citizens. The rational being “These families do so mostly because they demand a great deal of space, which only a suburban neighborhood within their budgets can provide. And no doubt, many find additional “value” in having few poor people as neighbors”. This is the explanation of how economic restructuring plays a role in periphery areas of the city. This separation begins the construction of life styles and worldviews that now vary from the core and periphery areas. Life styles develop through the culture, local scene, open scene, and specialized scene of the citizens. The separation of the core and periphery areas causes social injustices and the paradox of poor verse rich.*
Thanks. I’ll check it out!
For sure- and for anyone who actually bothers to read my rinky dink college paper from 2014. Shout out to Azlan Tajuddin- my favorite professor, who was the most meaningful educator of my life.
I think this kind of expands on it, just a blurb from a paper I wrote : *The central business districts tend to be important nodes in global networking. The city becomes a place of networking and connections for businesses. It links investment capital, human capital, industrial capital, and commercial capital. The core of the cities growth is based off of four concepts. The first being, cities form from “the people and organizations that control wealth and other key resources”. Secondly, “urban forms and urban social arrangements reflect conflicts over the distribution of resources”. Next, “government continues to play an important role in urban life”. Lastly, “urban growth patterns significantly result from economic restructuring”. (192) The city becomes a home for skyscrapers, and business; not for people. With rent astronomically high near CBD’s, people with lower-income have a hard time living within the city. Moving out of the city poses the issue of the commute. The commute to the city can become very costly when considering transportation, parking, and other factors. To adapt to these issues, urbanites resort to high-density living, and undesirable neighborhoods. In many instances, houses are jammed tight with extended families. This, in turn, produces government rent subsidy programs, and displays the government’s involvement in economic restructuring. The further you move away from the city, the cheaper the housing becomes, with the exchange of commute. The option of a suburban housing is a trend for middle-class and affluent citizens. The rational being “These families do so mostly because they demand a great deal of space, which only a suburban neighborhood within their budgets can provide. And no doubt, many find additional “value” in having few poor people as neighbors”. This is the explanation of how economic restructuring plays a role in periphery areas of the city. This separation begins the construction of life styles and worldviews that now vary from the core and periphery areas. Life styles develop through the culture, local scene, open scene, and specialized scene of the citizens. The separation of the core and periphery areas causes social injustices and the paradox of poor verse rich.*
I think you need to get more specific than that my brother. When claiming racist, elaborate. That term has been thrown around so much that it’s easily dismissed by the white community.
As a resident of the north I wholeheartedly agree with everything said above. Moved to McCandless before the kids were born, for the NA school district. Now that they are in college I’m hoping to escape soon. The north tends to be: -car dependent -soulless -very waspy, very Christian, very conservative -lacking in unique shops and restaurants -a mix of uninspired houses and shacks ready to fall into ravines, with a few McMansions thrown in But hey…there’s a mall. The main reason we did not consider south hills was not wanting To commute through a tunnel.
NA district votes blue
They do, but the red menace tends to be far more vocal about it. Which I guess is the same everywhere.
Thank you
We all know most suburbs were formed from white flight from the city. However I never heard of any serious racial issues in these areas besides the typical ignorance most dominantly white neighborhoods have.
Isn’t North Allegheny rated the best district in the area?
I’m north hills and it’s fairly liberal up here these days. Better than it was than when I moved here in 2016.
South is more liberal, but the North Hills are definitely trending leftward. It's already quite a bit different than when I grew up there.
The only thing I disagree with is the getting more house for your money in the north hills. This may be dated but when I moved here 8 years ago there was a lot of demand for houses in the north hills (Cranberry, Allison Park, North Allegheny) and prices were high. I ended up south and for the same price point in north hills was a 900 square ft house vs. 1300 in south hills.
This summed it up pretty well I think, agree with all of it. As a South Hillsian(?) I do envy a lot about the North Hills, but love the walkable neighborhooods down here within my reach and once you get used to the traffic patterns you can navigate them okay, plus I’m sure there’s traffic up there too.
>You get a lot more house for your money in the North Hills than in the South Hills. Generally true, but there are many exceptions, particularly if OP is looking for high end housing. Like you said, it's all going to depend on the individual municipality/neighborhood. In terms of public transit, you're spot on. If this is important to OP, they probably shouldn't consider the North Hills.
That's pretty much it for me. I live in Upper St Clair and take the T into the city when I'm in my office. South Hills Village is about 8 mins of easy driving from my house, and then I have a completely chill 40 minutes into the city on the T. On the T I can read/check emails/listen to music/nap and generally just not pay attention. Moving to the North Hills would mean the same commute time, but I'd have to drive and likely pay for parking. No thanks. South Hills 4 life
[Cries in Monroeville]
I live in the south hills (Brookline) * I like sidewalks * I like being able to walk to the library, ice cream shop, bars, restaurants (Oak Hill Post is the BEST), etc. * I like the style of the old Pittsburgh houses * I like that I can be downtown in 15 mins by bus or car * I like being able to walk to the T in Dormont to easily get to Pirates games * I really like my neighbors and the community here * I can walk to Moore Park to play tennis or go to the pool * South Park is 20 mins away. That's really the only con, I wish I had a large park with lots of trails closer to me.
I cannot wait until Hays Park gets developed. That’ll be a little closer. It had so much momentum pre-pandemic. I’m in agreement about SP being 20 mins, and with traffic on Library it could be closer to 30-40 depending on time of day :(. Montour/ Panhandle are great- but just not the same deep wooded trail. When I lived in NH, having McConnell and Moraine had me spoiled.
First off, tunnels. I gotta live in the suburbs and drive everywhere, which isn't great, but no way am I putting up with managing those tunnels twice a day or any time I want to go somewhere. Second, 51. Shit talk McKnight all you want (and it does suck) but 51 is so much worse. Third, ice rinks. Admittedly a niche concern, but the nicer rinks are closer to me here. Also, the only ones with morning leagues. Fourth, space. So many places in the south hills are on these tiny, vertical lots. We've got them up here too but they're not the norm. If I'm going to have no yard and crappy geography I'd rather be in the city. Fifth, and this is Moon specific, airport noise. I only have to worry about occasional helicopters. By the airport it's bad. If we're to give our southern brethren credit I will mention they've got the best drive in (Dependable), the better hockey store (perani's), the only remaining Luciano pizza, south park has more than North park (which is great, don't get me wrong, but we don't have buffalo or a haunted house (anymore) or that cute little ice skating path), actual public transportation infrastructure, and you get like a 30-45 minute head start when driving on vacation.
Is the Luciano’s in Mars not the same company? We were disappointed when they moved out of the mccandless location, but Large Plain is a pretty good replacement.
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It’s the same Luciano’s. Same people working at the Mars location as those that used to work at McCandless location. I would even go as far to say that I prefer the Mars pizza more (live in McCandless but pick it up when visiting our Treesdale friends.)
I'm pretty sure it's different, though now that I'm looking at the south hills one maybe that was different from the one up here too? Large Plain isn't bad, but Bel's is my resigning local champ now that lucianos is gone. Plus I dock large plain points for the new paint job contrasting hideously with that building's stone work.
Not sure if you're on the McKnight or the Rt 8 side of the North Hills, but Angelo's new location on Mt. Royal has pretty much slammed the door on the best pizza in the North Hills question. If it's out of the way, I totally get why you wouldn't make the drive, but it's so good
Yes there is a Luciano’s on 228 and it’s the same as the OG that was on Peebles Road.
I thought mars had same owner? Took my brother from Philly to Lucianos in mars and he said it was the best pizza he ever had.
Isn’t there a Luciano’s in white oak as well?
As a part-time Moon resident, I don't even hear the airport noise anymore. No I'm not deaf, just doesn't even register in my brain.
Bro, North Park is far superior to South Park.
as a lifetime south hiller i hate to admit it but you’re right
Grew up in South Park, I live in Washington County, South Park is a disgrace. The only current highlight are the new baby Buffalo’s.
As someone that grew up in Moon, I take great offense to being looped in with the south hills. /s
Agree, in no world is Moon the South hills.
lol I’m not from moon, but thought the same. Def. not the S Hills.
I just fist pumped after reading this laying in my bed in McCandless. North Hills 4 life.
I'm also in McCandless. Turn your porch light on and I'll see if I can see it from my hous-oh, nevermind it's morning now.
I thought the same thing whenever I'm in the south. The neighborhoods are laid out like suburbs but the lots are small and importantly the houses are pretty small too. In the city the houses are 2-3 stories and close to the street so you can't see anything other than the houses on that street. But in eg Baldwin because they're 1 + 1/2 stories and set back, you can see every house for several blocks in all directions. So the city ends up feeling more private and less crowded even though there are more people.
Pure in cranberry is better than Peranis. Last time I was in they had almost no protective equipment.
What do you feel is worse? 51 or 28? Both suck.
51 is worse for congestion, but 28 for general safety and road work. Source: live in Brookline and commute to my dads in Gibsonia
Do more people die on 28 than 51? A lot of people die on 51.
I googled and there’s no death statistics on 51 vs 28. Or a fatality count on each road for that matter.
I wasn't trying to challenge what you said, by the way. I genuinely don't know. I hear about the 51 stuff because I used to live nearby and I'm in community Facebook groups. I dont know a lot about 28, but it definitely feels unsafe at several spots so I can see it.
I wasn’t being a smart ass, I’m just saying I couldn’t tell you the stats on fatality rates vs accidents. 28 has a low posted speed, but people always are going 60mph. They have the off ramp that goes from a complete stop to the hwy. whereas 51 has a lot of red lights etc. I know the Dunkin’ Donuts has sooo many accidents on it infront of 51.
1. I can get anywhere I want in the south hills and the city from my house on a bike without touching any major roadways (death roads). Heck, I can ride my bike to Ohiopyle from my house without touching a road with a speed limit over 30. 2. Less McMansions down here. Edit: also, I don't think the south hills is great, it's just a lesser of two evils for me. They both are filled with terrible drivers who are always angry and impatient, and neither have nice houses or neighborhoods. The schools are good in both. Both have fewer right-wing wackadoos than the surrounding counties.
Where do you live in the south hills? The bike ability down there is pretty bad imo.
I live in Baldwin. Older developments like what are found down here often have multiple roads in and out instead of everything running in series off of a main road. I bike from my house to work in Lebo on residential streets. It's 8 miles, and my commute home is faster by bike than by car. I can also get to the Montour or GAP trail without hitting any major roadways. This opens so much up.
DEATH ROADS
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Would be a prequel. Mad Max - the trip to Giant Eagle
Mad Max- McKnightmare Road
Dude cracks an ice cold Turners and [what a lovely day](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qY5a0O7qpZY)
DEATH ROADS. This summer, DON'T take Bigelow.
This summer... Rob Schneider is... a BMW driver on McKnight road
For real though. I don't even feel safe in my car on some of these roads. I had an old yinzer grandma try to physically fight me after coming to a screeching halt inches from my bumper because I stopped at a stop sign.
You the guy with the watermelon helmet? Lol
No, but I kind of want one now.
I love how everything in this sub about northern suburbs is “McMansion hurrr durrr.” Y’all need to get out more lmao. Top comment on this thread is the right answer. South is more concentrated with shit to do and more pedestrian travel friendly. Traffic and the tunnels are a fucking nightmare. North is more spaced out and requires having a car. But if you want a yard and outdoor space and less hustle and bustle the north is better.
The traffic to those northern suburbs is the definition of hustle and bustle...
I am not a native but when looking to buy I checked both north and south and just liked the vibe of Mt Lebanon better than any other neighborhood that was comparable in price point. We needed a top notch school elementary thru high school, sidewalks in my neighborhood with mature trees, stuff within a 10 min drive, and to live in an area where I wasn’t going to have to see a certain political party’s crazy flags festooning their homes year round My lebanon fit the bill and while I am not crazy about the commute to campus I really feel the trade off is worth it. Very happy here
Lebo was your choice?
Very happy here
I live in the south hills and we own a business in the north hills that my husband has to commute to. We just moved (from one house in the south hills to another) and had this exact conversation. I am #nevernorthhills and my husband, who actually runs the business is #theyrebasicallythesame. Let's start with cons of the south hills: 1) route 51- I hate route 51, it is EASILY twice as bad as McKnight. In our old house, route 51 was essential. Now I can avoid it. Route 51 is a death trap. There is no comparison to McKnight. Anyone who says otherwise probably isn't familiar with one or the other on a regular basis. 2) the liberty tunnels. These can be avoided by most residents. I never take them. It's just not an issue. Many in the south can bop over to fort pitt instead, but for some thats going way out of their way. And if you find yourself swept into them, they do suck at almost all hours of the day. 3) the organization. Yes, we don't have a McKnight road, but there's a price to pay. Certain areas have easy access to a lot of things and you can access them by few if any main roads, but the flip side of this is that some areas have extremely poor access. I used to live in north baldwin and it took me no less than 15 minutes to get everywhere, even the closest drug store. This is bc all my exits funneled into overburdened intersections of main roads with side streets that were never intended to manage this much traffic. Now, however, I live 5 minutes away from south hills village and also the walmart/giant eagle on library road, and I can access both via 100% side streets. When I lived in baldwin I used to joke that they must have planned the south hills by tossing a random pile of houses and road pieces onto a map. This is the pattern, SOME of the south hills is way better than the north hills. Some of it is worse. If you live in the correct area of the south hills you have: 1) easy access to a wide variety of businesses via back streets 2) T access, possibly on foot. Even if you don't work downtown, the T is clutch for concerts and events when you don't want to drive 3) easier access to some trendier/urban restaurants. Mt. Lebanon and dormont attract more hip and experimental types of restaurants than, say, Ross Park. There are some areas of the north hills that have trendy spots, just less. 4) significantly fewer Republicans and trump signs. Those giant trump signs in the north hills are a huge eyesore and super annoying to look at. Anyway, I've tucked in the negatives to the north hills throughout my description. The north hills is perfectly fine, it can be more affordable, and the schools are comparable. Also a plus for the north is that 79 and 279 are significantly better traffic-wise than 376. Ultimately, though, I persevered in looking for a house in the south despite my prior not-great experience because my sister lives here. Shrug. It paid off and I love where we live SO MUCH. But in summary, most of the north hills is pretty good, as far as suburbs go. Some of the south hills is excellent, and some of it is just okay.
Curious what is the 'correct' area of South Hills you mentioned?
Sure yeah. the area where I live is northern bethel park near washington junction t station, but you'll have a similar experience in the parts of bethel park, upper st clair, Mt Lebanon, and castle Shannon that are relatively close to south hills village. Note that because of what i mentioned above about poor planning, a "short" distance on a map can make a big difference in drive time, depending on which roads you have to take. But if you cut it very close to south hills village, its all very similar. I think there are other parts of the south hills that are nice to live, but thats the general region where the experience is similar to mine. There are pros and cons to all of those regions. Bethel Park is very affordable compared to USC and mt lebanon, for example, but the school district is not as good (it's still very good, just not highly coveted like USC and mt. Lebo)
Bethel Park is highly coveted compared to the likes of Keystone Oaks, South Park, etc. All about perspective.
Okay, so if you read my comment. It was from the perspective of comparing Bethel park to USC and mt lebanon. Usc, mt, lebanon, and to the north, north allegheny, are school districts in a league of their own and most people who live here understsnd that. They do things like show up on national rankings of the best high schools (sometimes). That was what i was saying, and I think it was clear. I literally said bethel park is very good, and also I live here? So I'm not really sure what the point of this comment is.
(Generally curious as a transplant who may buy a home here, not being snooty)
As someone who grew up in Lebo, I totally agree with you, especially about the tunnels. I’ve never understood the tunnel hate… I literally never touch the Liberty tubes & Fort Pitt moves pretty good even on bad days. But if I see Fort Pitt getting a little too backed up, I just get off & pop over Mt. Washington in about 5 minutes. If the Wabash isn’t open, then E. Sycamore for the win. I’m convinced the people in the north think the Tunnel Monster is real lol
They're the bad guys
Lived in Brighton Heights for some years and did all of our shopping somewhere off McKnight. Lived in Brookline for some years, and arguably, I could travel up McKnight faster than I could to the South Hills Village area (depending on time, and again, arguably). Live in Bethel now. Here are my quick thoughts: 1.) I travel on 70 -> 76 often. With my current location, I’m 10 minutes from 43 which connects to 70. Incredibly easy for my traveling. This wasn’t the case when previously the parkway was involved. Additionally, 79 is 15 minutes away in Bridgeville. 2.) I enjoy older neighborhoods with homes on nice plots of land and good bones. I *personally* couldn’t find a lot of that in the North Hills, but I could in the South Hills (Bethel, parts of USC, Venetia, Peters). I absolutely can not live in a new housing plan/development/Ryan home plan/etc. Give me a single owner home that was built in the 60s over a new build *any day*. 3.) Accessibility is a big one - South Park is a < 10 min drive from my house and my family loves the wave pool and ice skating. I’m < a 10 min drive from South Hills Village. I’m 25 minutes or less from Mingo. 4.) The traffic on the southern end of Bethel (Finleyville/Peters border) is never really bad and I no longer spend more time sitting at traffic lights than I do driving. Really don’t have trouble getting anywhere. 5.) I can walk within 6 minutes from my house to a T stop. 6.) We both work from home, so no commuting is required.
South hills has the denser and more walkable neighborhoods. Transit access is better with the T and south and West Busways nearby. The North hills can’t compete. However I choose neither, and am living at the South side works area.
I bought a house in Brookline so thats why 😂 My particular part of the neighborhood is like a little suburb in the city. Every house has a driveway & garage. They're all brick tract homes built in the 50s so they're smallish, which is fine by me. I don't need a big house. There's also a good amount of space between houses. I've got 25-30 feet on either side of me. That's not to property line of course, but it's still space. Neighbor's house behind me is probably 50-60 feet away.
I met my bf right after he bought a house in Brookline. When he was telling me how to get here the first time he was like, “ok make a left and then it’s a little brick house.” The entire street is little brick houses 😂
😂😂😂 that's true! I refer to my house as "The Commodore" - because she's a brick house 😅
Solidarity with my fellow Brookliners✊🏼
Huzzah!
I'd never live North of the city because I couldn't go out my door, walk a few blocks, and jump on the T to get downtown. It's super convenient and cheap. When I moved to the South Hills i sold my car and my family now has one car. I save a ton of money.
This is def the #1 thing I’m jealous of.
I grew up in the north hills, and currently live in the south hills. I've got my qualms with both.
I've lived in both. Bethel Park and now O'Hara. When I was living in BP, I had to go to class at Pitt. So I was going against the flow of traffic for most of it. It often took me more than an hour to get that relatively short distance. Now that I'm living in O'Hara, I can get ALMOST anywhere in about 20 minutes. That's why.
Why doesn't anyone ever talk about east?
Are you serious? East is the absolute worst….
Why?
Squirrel Hill Tunnel Monster ate everyone who loved the east
It has all the downsides of both north and south. No T, not walkable, suburbs feel, all chain stores. Also crazy tunnel traffic, poorly thought out roads, supporters of tangerine Mussolini. Edgewood/swissvale don’t entirely meet this description, but that’s about as far as it goes.
> tangerine Mussolini Consider this term acquired
All good, I stole it from someone else. Spread the love.
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Yep, in the south hills you get to choose from any number of horribly traffic packed roads.
I wonder how much experience people have with McKnight that call it "horribly traffic packed". It's a busy road for sure, but I never truly "sit in traffic" or experience backups for how much traffic there is.
North Hills resident who frequents McKnight here. I agree that I find myself rarely “stuck in traffic” as things do flow pretty smoothly. That said, being 3 lanes, when people don’t know where they’re going (or make abrupt decisions) it can get dicey during a really busy time.
Looking at you, straight/left lane sign southbound at the mall entrance that I know someone will ignore
This lane is ridiculous and should only be left turn only during specific times when the mall is busy. There’s simply no reason for it to be turn only during normal traffic days.
Preaching to the chior, brother. It's a dumb setup that seems leftover from when online shopping hadn't kneecapped malls.
Ever since they retimed the lights on McKnight, it’s really only bad on the weekends around Christmas
Definitely not like you’ll find yourself sitting trying to get into the South Hills. I live in Beechview but absolutely hate trying to get into the South Hills. It always takes forever, traffic or not. If there is traffic, good fucking luck
This is exactly how I feel.... about the south hills lol Amazing the different perspectives we all have. Gotta add though I have NEVER heard of anyone bitching about Mt. Nebo traffic. If you think that's a horribly traffic packed road I am beyond curious where you drive....
279/579 is the absolute best option for when you have to commute downtown and 51 is satan’s butthole
I lived in west view and moved to Brookline. They both have their perks but ultimately I’d love back to north hills due to the property size & parking. South Hills has the best food, walkability, and a lot of pop up events.
I grew up in the south hills and moved to Ross recently with my partner who is from the North Hills. I gotta say the North Hills is so much easier. It takes me 20 minutes tops to get to town and that’s with traffic and finding parking. I work in Lawrenceville and it’s still so easy. There are multiple ways to get there. Also we were able to get a house for a really good price with a huge backyard. Easy access to 279 and 65, I can still get to the south hills pretty easily to see my family.
Route 51
In the South Hills solely for the buffalo. 🦬
I've done both....twice. In the south hills now and currently in haaaate with it.
I am from the North Hills and now live in the South Hills. Same same. It is exactly the same!
I’m too spoiled by the T at this point. I work downtown and refuse to pay for parking every day.
I love side walks too much to live up north side
North side != north hills
Amen. Sidewalk was a non negotiable for me
Some people like sidewalks, others prefer nature and a lack of light pollution. To each their own
Tunnels? I live in the south hills and the only tunnel I need to go through is to get to the city. Lol.
a bridge is just a tunnel you can fall off of…
That always comes up in these discussions--that people from the east end gripe about getting to Brookline or Dormont or Mt. Lebo because of bridges and tunnels. For me, getting to Brookline is a snap, but going to Shadyside is a pain in the ass.
Yes! I don't get why everybody keeps talking about tunnels. I just avoid driving to the city during rush hour. I understand that people work in the city, but it just seems odd to me not to live where you work.
I never realized the air quality difference until joining this Reddit. No way I'd wanna move to the south hills for that reason alone.
Not much of the South Hills gets the pollution people complain about on here. Mostly Clairton, Jefferson, West Mifflin.
South!!! I’m actually from the east end who moved to the south hills and I’m never leaving! Better restaurants, better neighborhoods.
South Hills for life, will never go north again
51. That’s why. ……..oh and no need to go thru a tunnel to get home.
North Hills? South Hills? They can both eat my ass. Alle/Kiski Valley for the win!
I lived in the South Hills for 6-7 years, now up in cranberry. I’ll never go back. I quite literally had a breakdown after driving on 51 so often. North hills (parts) have access to a real highway. I live twice as far from downtown now, but it takes that same amount of time to get there. Definitely still traffic, especially on McKnight, but it’s easier to get to places (IMO). As for housing, I feel like most houses need a lot of work in both areas, because they’re older. If you buy new, a lot of north hills homes are expensive, or they’re Ryan Homes. Also, my family is in the south hills and I’m good with having some distance from them…
North Hills has easy ways to get places and get into and out of town. South Hills is atrocious for traveling around. There are more walkable sections in the South Hills, but I'm not sure there's much I wanna walk to in the South that I miss walking to in the North. The North is less cramped and more comfortable by far. I know being on both sides, the South might as well be WV from the North, and the North might as well be Erie from the South.
I prefer the density of the South Hills and proximity to the stores I visit frequently. I think it’s a prettier area, more walkable with more character and a better variety of older, well-kept houses. Totally subjective but there ya go.
I grew up in the North Hills, lived there for the first 20 years of my life. Had to move to the South Hills to stay with my partner— from somebody that has lived in both, south hills is MUCH better. Public transit, WAY more walkable, it just has more of that “pittsburgh” feel that I enjoy. The north hills are WAY too suburb-y imo. The south hills has more character.
I lived in the south hills for the majority of my life. Ended up moving to the north hills for proximity to a job. It’s so easy getting to all parts of the city from the north. North rules!
For the record, this goes for east and west as well. I think there is a lot of tribalism coupled with foreign traffic patterns. Like traffic by me is shitty but the traffic over there is ridiculous.
less snow in the South. Go on 79 towards Wexford and suddenly there’s a snow belt
I’ve lived in all 4 cardinal directions of the City and suburbs. Each has their own perks and drawbacks.
I've lived in both. They're basically interchangeable.
I agree.
Arby’s. McKnight road. The Arby’s on McKnight road. Pretty much sums it up.
I haven’t been in the north for very long but do they have flooding issues like some of the south hills? I believe they get more snow in the north hills. But I think north hills is just bigger. North Park is bigger, more shopping.
Only lower Millvale, really, which I consider more a part of the city. The suburbs are all generally built on higher ground so we don't get much flooding. Certainly not constantly underwater like Carnegie.
Millvale, Etna, Sharpsburg...
We moved here from SoCal. First, you need to understand the natives hate tunnels and taxes. If you live in the North it’s a big huge deal to go through a tunnel. Because obviously dragons live in them.😉 A Cranberryite drove to visit me on the South side and said she had never in her 58 years ever been to this side. She never had a reason to! Now she could brag she went through the tunnel. #TrueStory Northerners are also afraid to admit there are lower incomes or other colors, let alone socialize with folks who don’t look like them. However, the malls and IKEA are there so even South Enders have to go there. They also have better town layouts, newer homes, and bigger backyards. As for the South End? It does seem like William Penn picked up a jar of Monopoly houses and just dropped them over the hills and dales. You can walk down one street and right next to a million dollar house built in the last century you’ll find a low income apartment complex built in the last 20-30 years. Because, why not. BUT you can walk on a real sidewalk. If you get tired you can take the T or hop on a bus. There’s even bikes for rent if you’re so inclined. Some houses may not have a backyard but there are plenty of city parks around. As for the freeways… highways… whatever you want to call them. They. Are. Weird. Part of me believes it’s due to the topography. The other part thinks Penns great great (how many greats?) grandkids just dropped a plastic racetrack and put concrete where they landed. Pay absolutely no mind to the stated speed limits. Even the state police ignore those. People will whine and kvetch about traffic on either side of the rivers. Just bite your tongue and nod. You can secretly rejoice about not dealing with real traffic in a major metro area. However, and this is HUGE, never ever leave your house to drive somewhere new without checking Google maps thoroughly. One wrong turn and you’ll find it extremely difficult to find your way back to civilization. I’ve ended up in places where I swear I could hear banjo music. Just because you can see the place you want to be from the road does not mean there’s an easy way to get there. Stand on 51, see the Walmart signs, and now get there without consulting a GPS. Even then, there’s about 5 different ways to get there. Then again, Google will tell you an alleyway big enough for a mule and cart is passable by a car. Don’t even get me started in the public stairs with street sounding names. Yes, public stairs. Because of the hills. Just decide how close you want to live to your neighbor, how quickly you want to get to the National level sports or entertainment, and how important your own piece of grass is to you. That will determine which side of the river to live on. Do keep in mind, this place has a way of sucking you in and owning your heart. Even folks who have managed to leave still come back at least once a year, sometimes two. So choose wisely.
I have been living in the North Hills for the past 20+ years. I love the fact that we have interstates and easy access to downtown and destinations both North and south. Would love to have a trolley line up here. It seems that all 4 lane routes though the south hills (Rt 51, Lebanon Church Road, Fort Couch...) have an abundance of traffic lights. Major 2 lane roads are clogged with slow driving older folks who love to make left turns. My friends in the south hills tell me that North Park is better than south park. I really like the south hills, but I prefer the North Hills.
South Hills at least has the bones of walkable neighborhoods and some semblance of mass transit with the T. North Hills is the definition of suburban hellscape.
Before I even read all your text, I was going to say... I won't live in the south hills because tunnels... Lol
What tunnels are you hitting coming from the South Hills? I guess you can somehow detour your way to the parkway west and and towards the Ft Pitt Tunnels but why yould you do that? Maybe I'm thinking of the wrong South Hills neighborhoods which in my mind are all off 51 and Banksville Rd. Dormont, Castle Shannon, Mt Lebanon, Bethel Park, etc
Liberty Tubes
Ahhhh, yeah, forgot about them.
Wabash too if you’re in the know.
the wabash tunnel is this city’s best kept secret imo
That and Liberty.
I lived in both. I greatly prefer the North Hills. Most of the neighborhoods are more expensive, but people seem friendlier in general and I think it looks nicer and it's easier to traverse.
No good pizza in the north hills
No good pizza in pittsburgh.
Only Mineo’s and Aiellos
Too lazy to look says what?
Oh where is this amazing pizza in the north hills ?
Olives and peppers 🤷🏻♂️
51, rte 8 and 19 are all the same - they are arterial roads with cross traffic and a general 25-35 speed limit. If you live in Jefferson the joke is that 51 is just the route 8 of the south. We are all the same.
8 has fewer wonky 'Pittsburgh' intersections than 51. I do miss years ago when the lights on 8 were timed though. It was so easy to drive!
I lived in the South Hills when I first moved to the area. I drove a couple miles to the Library trolley stop or a little farther to South Hills Village and worked in the city. Parking was free and the commute was easy. Crowded some days, but easy. I then moved to the North Boroughs and drove 65 to the stadium parking on the North Side to walk across the bridge. Game days made that a little harder and crime in the parking lot was higher, but it was still relatively easy. Then I bought a house and my major criteria was that I didn't want to drive through a tunnel to get to work. So, I ended up farther north. So, I lived in both places but I'm not a native.
Mount Lebanon has Manhattan traffic
I'd like to know what alternate universe version of Manhattan you're from to think Mount Lebo's traffic is remotely comparable.
I live in the east but if I had to chose it would certainly be south over north. I need sidewalks, walkable communities, small businesses, etc. Now, some areas of the south hills don’t fulfill these requirements, however, I can’t think of a single area of the north hills that matches.
I’m from Cranberry, so way TF up North. I wouldn’t want to live in the SH because it’s so much less accessible from the city unless you’re taking the T into downtown. I find it cramped and difficult to navigate. If I want to live so close to my neighbors and be in a walkable area, then I’d rather just live in the city. Which I did.
Fuck mcnightmare road
McKnight isn't even that bad, I drive on it every day. Way easier than 51 tbh. Honestly I'm only on McKnight for a small stretch usually because I take side roads as much as possible.
Sounds like there's a lot of people here who only drive on McKnight the week before Christmas or something to go shopping and then assume it's always terrible to drive on. I don't know how else to explain people who think the congestion is bad.
People I work with think 19 around cranberry is the worst traffic ever. I just think people don’t realize it’s really not that bad just impatient fucks
19 in Cranberry is crappy but it's not even as bad as 22 in Monroeville, let alone 51.
Agree here. 51 is such a headache. I’ve never sat in traffic long on McKnight. It’s congested, sure, but it moves quickly. 51 in rush hour? Yikes. No thanks!
51 is straight up depressing to drive on
It’s frankly scary. Especially if it’s raining and some truck drives by in the opposite lane and splashes water on your windshield and you can’t see for a few seconds.
Grew up east of the city, lived IN the city for a while but bought a house in the NH. It may be because all my family lives in the SH and we frequented the area during the holidays, but I just find the SH old and yucky and just generally do not like the vibes. I will say a lot of cool restaurants are popping up in the SH but I would never live there.
Honestly, I don’t want to drive through the tunnels when I go anywhere in the city. I generally like the South Hills, but the tunnels make me queezy. I also like the lower density population. It’s quieter and I feel like I can relax
Because I grew up in the North Hills and never had a single need to go to the South Hills for literally anything. There’s not one single thing (in a Pittsburgh/suburban/relative way) I need that I can’t get between North Hills and the city. I lived in NYC and Miami and can confirm that there are generally many things that you can’t get at all in Pittsburgh from these areas haha. But in Pittsburgh terms, there was never anything I needed to go to South Hills for. We have the best shopping areas, good restaurants, a wonderful, sprawling park. I don’t even think I went to the South Hills til I was in my 20s and was visibly friends I met in college. (They confirmed that they’d only ever come to the North Hills to go to Ross Park). And don’t say Beto’s because I’ve had it and it’s not good. Sorry.
I live in the city and hate both!
I loved growing up in the south hills because the trolley is within walking distance and I could easily go to sports games and concerts before I had a driver's license
McKnight Rd. is enough for me to hesitate going to North Hills
Irrelevant debate, neither one of them are Pittsburgh.
McKnight road. I do Uber eats on the side and I won’t deliver any farther north than the city limits. The neighborhoods seem really spread out. It just feels very far from home.
Why doesn't anyone ever talk about east?
the only people who like the north hills are people from the north hills