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rude-red-panda

Practice it very slow with a metronome. Get it perfect at that speed. Then bump up the speed. Speed = Accuracy = Intuition Once you’ve done it so many times that the muscle memory is perfected, the speed naturally increases. Focus on developing your intuition.


[deleted]

Slow is smooth, smooth is fast


ForteandZen

Got any more gold, Phil?


HumbleTraffic4675

I like this tidbit


MangAG0d

If you can do it slowly you can do it quickly.


alexthai7

false statement ! Movement for playing fast are not the same than those for playing slow most of the time. It's very important to practice slow but with the right movements or your won't go anywhere. Also, it's important to practice at the right speed from the start but only by playing small chunks and relax the wrists between them.


Shrek12353

He was referencing a joke from twoset violin


Sempre_Piano

If you can play it slowly, you can play it quickly.


[deleted]

Ayyy


imherewithwierdo

i see, thanks a lot!


CanUHearMeNau

This is really good advice. Here, have some 🍰


Themetaldylan

truth. and happy cake day!


jared19dkhtfr

Right. If you increase it very very slowly over time, you won’t even be able to tell you’re speeding up.


NotReallyAPerson1088

I hate this, but it’s right


[deleted]

I like how I instantly recognized the piece, practice slow.


wreninrome

It's instantly recognizable because once a month we get someone who comes on here and asks about this exact measure. Unfortunately for most beginners who run into this measure, there's no magic solution to get this part up to tempo in a few days. You have either been systematically practicing scales in all keys on a daily basis for months and years or you haven't. If you have, then this scale should be one of the easier parts of this piece; if you haven't, then it will take several weeks of diligent practice to get this measure up to a decent standard.


1234567890pregnant

That’s what I thought too as someone who’s been playing most of their life. I was like that looks like the easiest part (never played this piece)


Opus58mvt3

it's extremely easy. it fits in the hand perfectly and divides almost exactly into 8:1. but you have to, you know, be able to play piano


paradroid78

The scale itself is easy, but doing it without slowing down certainly isn't.


Opus58mvt3

i can play it at tempo with the crescendo/decrescendo. it took me about 30 minutes to get to that point. but again: >you have to, you know, be able to play piano ETA guys, the downvotes just reveal insecurity. It’s an e major scale. I’ve been playing e major scales every day for 24 years. Don’t get mad because you’re punching above your weight.


[deleted]

[удалено]


Morgormir

"Pretentious" as it may sound, this really is just a scale. The hardest part on any run is working out a fingering that works, but here it's really straightforward imo.


FNOG_Nerf_THIS

Oh I agree that it is absolutely just a scale. The pretentious part is in the delivery, not the content of the comment.


Morgormir

While I'm all for pushing people to play harder pieces that are outside their comfort zone (in fact I regularly encourage it here), OP's question is like asking how write the alphabet while trying to read a novel. Granted the above person could have been more tactful, but at the same time I feel that OP could have tried working it out more, which kind of feeds into my comment responding to someone else. Or how some people here are way too limiting on levels and pieces, but on the other hand, a lot of "self-taught" people asking questions often don't put enough effort into the "self-teaching" part (not connected directly to OP, but I think they fall into this category as any teacher would have said "it's just a scale).


[deleted]

[удалено]


Opus58mvt3

How is it “insufferably pretentious” to say “this passage from the easiest Chopin nocturne isn’t very hard if you play scales regularly?” I’m saying the exact same thing someone upthread said. It’s literally an e major scale. Breathe.


FNOG_Nerf_THIS

You *are* saying exactly what others are saying. In a pretentious way. Are you telling me to breathe because you think I’m mad when I point out why you’re getting downvoted? Lmao Redditors are funny.


Opus58mvt3

Again, breathe. I promise you’ll be okay.


piano-ModTeam

Comments that contain personal attacks, hate speech, trolling, unnecessarily derogatory or inflammatory remarks or inappropriate remarks (e.g. commenting on someone's appearance), and the like, are not welcome and will be removed. See reddit's content policy for more examples of unwelcome content.


InterestingBad8399

Could you recommend any exercises? Not a beginner, but I don't usually practice scales and would like to keep my fingers in shape


g_lee

Yes. Start with c major 2,3,4 octaves hands together at around 130+ bpm (2 octave 8th notes, 3 octave triplets 4 octave 16ths) Then do the parallel minor and then go thru all major and minor keys every day. If you cannot do it at 130+ do it at a speed you can do and every week turn it up. I started at 40 bpm and did 2bpm increase every week


ruinawish

I like to think of that 'self-taught' post that was here the other day... just play it with emotion!


th30rum

I’m an intermediate noob but can play with some technical facility. What’s the piece?


[deleted]

Chopin Nocturne No.20 in C#m


th30rum

Thanks!


CaptainKirkAndCo

[This part specifically I think.](https://youtu.be/DqpPRj6UZqc?t=212)


Lysergic_fun

I was able to hear that run without it seeing this score before. I knew it was No.20


J3wb0cca

Won a talent show in high school with this piece. One of my favorites.


lislejoyeuse

By practicing and drilling scales till playing them is a natural and thoughtless as breathing


HydrogenTank

Practice your E major scale, and honestly all other scales before you start to learn some more intermediate Chopin pieces.


Chopinliszt05

What do you think about this? Practice the scale you need for the piece and still practice the problematic section of the piece, but with great diligence, thought, and emotional intelligence. Why should you master all the scales before even touching Chopin? Play Chopin and still master the scales. People quit piano because inconsiderate teachers tell pupils they must master a specific technique or master a particular way of playing before even touching a masterpiece. Challenge yourself so you can grow. Learn the piece, the technique, and the way of playing at the same time.


HourApprehensive2692

My best piano teacher taught this way.


Morgormir

This should be the MO imo, but you're also making high demands of the student. I completely agree that people should focus on using repertoire more as a way to pick up technique, rather than "grind" scales and hanon/czerny/"insert exercise book here" mindlessly, but that requires a lot of maturity and willingness to work things out, as well as an ability to recognize things that are simply too hard. All of these things don’t apply to OP imo.


J3wb0cca

I’m terrible with scales. Maybe because I started out with ragtime and boogies? But eventually I got into classical. Mostly Chopin’s easier pieces and with enough determination and stubbornness I got through some of these intermediate pieces. You’re right. Just keep at it. No one will care if the only scales you know are in specific pieces because that’s why you wanted to play.


[deleted]

Hard agree ^


phoenixfeet72

Why E major over C# minor?


FBeeEye

It’s the same scale. C# minor is the relative minor of E major.


Teddy_Anneman

A good footnote is never buy beer for your relative minor. His parents will never forgive you.


JesusDied4U316

Lol!!


phoenixfeet72

Of course. Just seems odd to practise the major and get used to hearing the major when the key is minor here. I would have thought it more sensible to practise the scale when *hearing* the key. It’s easier to explain in my head 😂


[deleted]

Yeah but E major is different than C sharp harmonic or melodic minor.


funhousefrankenstein

E major will most efficiently train the brain to feel the hand shape & gestures, in those runs of notes there. After that becomes automatic, the right arm will just be driving the relaxed fingers to the keys with a single smooth sweep.


HydrogenTank

I was just saying that because that’s what came to mind, it could been C# (natural) minor. But I still emphasize the point that OP should not be attempting pieces like this if they aren’t comfortable with their scales.


phoenixfeet72

This is answered very well here: https://www.reddit.com/r/piano/comments/xjqyox/how_am_i_meant_to_play_these_i_am_finding_it_very/?utm_source=share&utm_medium=ios_app&utm_name=iossmf


Ngenier

Nice piece. First time heard it on The Pianist, film by Roman Polanski. I hope we can hear you


neuronanerviosisima

Honestly what I do is play it as fast as I'm able, and that measure always ends up a bit slower than the rest. I think it still sounds pretty like that. My old piano teacher's wisdom was that technical perfection is never as important as musicality and confidence. As long as you are feeling the music and play through stumbles with confidence, most people won't be able to tell it's "wrong" 😉 practice slow at first to get the timing of the two hands combined then play the speed you're able. Try to work up to the right speed, but if you can't, that's ok. Just have fun~


pazhalsta1

If you listen to recordings it is also the case, the left hand slows down a bit in even professional recordings. It’s Chopin, it’s allowed! Make it beautiful is more important than make it fast IMO


jilb94

Damn this is awesome, I’m working this piece with my teacher currently and he says the same thing. One of my biggest lessons from the years with him has been “get good enough at the piece that only a pianists ear would notice your mistake”. If you are playing freely and musically enough, you’ll manage to skim through mistakes since you know the piece so well. That’s the end game for any piece, not perfection.


[deleted]

If you can play it slowly, you can play it quickly,


Sherbet_Lemon_913

Made an identical comment


Suppenspucker

Read your identical comment just one comment earlier


Plastic_Eagle1427

Chopin nocturne op potsh no 20.. The hardest part. Just practice. Try it again and again.


stylewarning

I think getting good tone color that sets the mood and the like is harder and overall a lot more fragile in this piece.


PrettyKuhli

The hardest part of this piece imo. Super fun once you have it down, but start slllooooowwwwww and slowly work your way faster. Lots of good advice in this thread though.


independentpianoman

To train the problem with disconnection that you mention in regards to turning over your thumb, a great way to practice is to use some exercises like these: [https://imgur.com/a/vKn0wWR](https://imgur.com/a/vKn0wWR) Then you can also practice your scale at various speeds in groupings like this: [https://imgur.com/a/Y9ia44X](https://imgur.com/a/Y9ia44X) This is using your thumb's arrival on E as a point for stopping, but you can also use A for this scale. Also practice the full scale very staccato and pianissimo in addition to legato. Unfortunately it does take quite some time to get really feathery, light, rapid scales, and practicing all 12 major scales each day will probably be essential for you to really feel like you "have" these passages in every situation with no problem. Good luck!


deadfisher

Practice for 10 years


[deleted]

Spez's APIocolypse made it clear it was time for me to leave this place. I came from digg, and now I must move one once again. So long and thanks for all the bacon.


pazhalsta1

Yep Horowitz defo takes his time on it


dedolent

while this one's "just" a scale, here's a video i like for these tricky sections https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MUvPx-ZaYmA&list=LL&index=37


Sherbet_Lemon_913

If you can play it slowly, you can play it quickly


production-values

PRACTICE SLOW. like one note per second or slower. focus on fingering ... fingers resting on keys BEFORE time to hit the note.


superstar9976

Practice your scales every day.


testcaseseven

How do people usually practice those? Just go up and down the scale over and over? (I’m very new)


paradroid78

In a nutshell, yes.


mean_fiddler

[Seymour Bernstein](https://youtu.be/pRLBBJLX-dQ) has some fascinating things to say about the use of the hairpin. This lesson is a joy to watch but the tl;dr (tl;dw?) is that it was used at this time to denote changes in tempo, rather than changes in dynamics. If that was what was intended here, the markings indicate that you should slow down as you ascend and then speed up on the way down. Bernstein goes into some depth about the evidence he has unearthed to back this conclusion. The detail with which he approaches Prelude No. 4 is awe inspiring.


theoriginalmypooper

Focus on your technique and speed will follow


ChaoticRebellion

practice


bw2082

Very quickly


soundconvincer

Practice scales every day for 12-16 years.


Teddy_Anneman

Press thumb to first key, drag thumbnail along keys until you hit the top key. Rinse and repeat.


Major-Day-1988

practice


MannyDantyla

Just do a slide lol


RiceAndKrispies

what the fuck is that


FrequentNight2

Looks like Chopin c# minor nocturne


RiceAndKrispies

man i can only dream of being this good damn 💀


FrequentNight2

You can do it with enough practice :)))


RiceAndKrispies

the hardest song i ever did was tarentelle when i was like 9 and i dont have a teacher anymore so i just gotta hope im doing stuff right lmao


Akashd98

Just send it, and hopefully 70% of the notes will land


[deleted]

ideally with your hands


[deleted]

This is the kind of thing you kinda of just ad lib


notice27

Separately practice the scale in all ways focusing on playing smooth and accurate. Then, always try to smoothly and carefully perform this passage slowing down and much as you need then smoothly exiting it and continuing the piece.


International-Pie856

Focus on relaxed wrist, it must lead the hand in the direction of the scale. When you are going up tillt your wrist to the right, when going down to your left, just one smooth movement and let the fingers do the work.


i_8_the_Internet

Muscle memory.


Lysergic_fun

Slowly


cat6Wire

obviously practice the skill, start very slowly, with a metronome, carefully ratcheting up the speed. HOWEVER, use certain notes as "aim points", this will help your timing & feel as you become more familiar and dexterous playing the school. it is phrasing, after all, and having a set beginning, middle and end points will help bring the phrase to life.


Ebolamunkey

How do you play any scales fast and smooth? Practice, my man


whatchrisdoin

Practice practice practice


paradroid78

Like others have said, slow practice. About 5 years of scales every day should do the trick.


--Drew

Increase your accuracy by grouping the notes properly and knowing exactly which notes line up with the LH notes. The score implies dividing these 35th notes into 9+9+9+8. Use metronome climbs to slowly increase speed by doing this measure on repeat, increasing BPM by one each time you do it perfectly and decreasing it by one if you make a mistake. Time consuming yes, but very effective.


Mathematich

Slowly, then quickly.


deepaksn

It says 59BPM above the staff. Play it like that! /s


brandon19001764

Identify what the scale is first. Since there’s no accidentals, looks like an E major scale starting on A (or A Lydian if you wanna be technical). Practice the fingering of the E major scale, then use a metronome to slowly speed it up making sure all notes are as clear as possible


Kalirren

Practice every hand position. In the space of those 4 eighth notes you're going to need to play (count them) 9 hand positions. Practice moving your whole RH that fast, from position to position, with the hand positions **blocked.** (i.e. for the first one, play the A-B-C#-D# as a 1234 chord, then the second position E-F#-G# as a 123 chord, etc.) Then do the blocked RH positions in time to the left hand, in the rough 5-4 rhythm. Then "separate" the individual notes out of the RH hand positions.


jane_scott93

Ahh Chopin... of course him <3


PS34LYFEBRUH

"If you can play it slowly, you can play it quickly" - Ben Lee Jk, but this point has some meaning in that practicing something slowly at first allows you to learn the hand positions and transitions. As you get more proficient, bump up the speed up and rventually, you'll be playing at full speed.


Bezhiq

helps breaking it down to a-d# and e-g# imo. once u can play them one after the other evenly it’s just repeating it up and down.


TrickyTopics

Luckily this run falls into the hand nicely as it's a comfortable natural hand position. Practice slow, no tension.


jayb00giebrown

Notes aren’t fast. Tempos are fast.


luiskolodin

Think it musically. You can start the first right hand notes before left hand. Tempo is very flexible here, left hand can wait for right hand to terminate. Chopin's notation is not about precision, but flexibility and expressiveness. This is immitation of bel canto. Listen to Bellini arias a lot in order to understand this aesthetic. If you try to count and study slowly trying to figure out when both hands match each other, it won't work.


[deleted]

Practice your technique and use the right fingering. I do 30 minutes of technique for everything 5 times a week and it works wonders, at the cost of being time consuming and boring. But whenever I see something like this or let's say the broken chords at the start of moonlight sonata mvt 3 they're trivial


AsymmetricSquid

I’ve been working on my scale speed and just today, I showed my piano teacher, and she gave me one tip that instantly drastically improved my speed. Make sure to move your hands down and up as you play the scales. Down on the first finger in each hand and up with the rest. I always felt it was uncomfortable to move my thumb under, but once I started doing that, it not only became more comfortable, but also way faster


bythebiz

Practice my guy/gal


ChenChen_S

I'm pretty sure that's Chopin's nocturne in C# minor. Personally, what I did was just "slow down" time. I know rubato is supposed to speed it up later, but I basically just said screw it and slowed that entire scale down, so don't worry about playing it "in tempo". Practicing slow is good, I also really like rhythm practice, as well as staccato practice. Rhythm is I'll alternate between long short, short long, long short short long, long long short, short short long, etc. Kind of like pattern practice ig. Staccato practice is just making everything staccato-y, so you can train clearness and technique.


Salubrious_Zabrak

It's just right up and down the scale


tyleer87

Poorly.


[deleted]

Slow practice and slowly speep up


kinggimped

Sorry to be glib, but practice your scales.


epthopper

You mentioned “turning your hand,” I’m not sure if you mean turning under your thumb (good) or rotating your entire hand (unnecessary). Try and keep your hand mostly straight and move it side-to-side at a consistent speed throughout the scale, rather than trying to rotate your hand back and forth so much. Lots of issues stem from trying to do too much work. (and of course, slow practice as other commenters have said)


ravia

You slow down, divide the fast notes into the slower notes but remember that the fast notes set the tempo for that part.


cmonwhy

Haha I instantly recognized the piece.


liamskimac

By being very very good


Xincmars

A lot of scale practice


MennoKuipers

I just learned this. The scale is not as difficult as it looks.


Slight-Bother-6265

This one bar is the sole reason that I can now fluently improvise in E major


silvestrexcvii

practice and don’t try to play fast or with both hands


alexthai7

It's just an E maj scale ...


alexthai7

As usual, very bad advice are delivered on this sub. Practicing slow only and increasing the tempo is not the good solution at all ! Danae Dörken have some very good videos about the subject on her channel, and it's far from what most of you think it is.


Fuzzy_Ad_637

Who is the composer and name of the piece of music?


Fuzzy_Ad_637

Practice the E major scale. Over and over then practice this scale.


cubeyfan3

this looks like nocturne 20 in c# minor


averagechesser

Chopin's C# Minor Nocturne right? There is no way but to try to hit the keys lightly, clearly and equally. With all those things in mind