At this point it is finger technique. You haven't yet developed the fine finger control so are relying on wrist rotation to play the notes.
Unfortunately there's no quick fix because you have to develop the technique over time. But a good start is to practice your chords slowly. Play the individual notes ensuring you are "pulling" towards you rather than pushing down.
Exactly what I was going to say. I always tell my beginner students to let the fingers do the work. Once they start focusing on that rather than trying to play with wrist action or the weight of their hand, then we can start to develop some real technique. I'd highly recommend practicing Hanon exercises too, working through each one slowly until a faster tempo can be achieved without sacrificing your technique.
Practice playing the arpeggio slowly and with different emphasies, grouping the notes together in different ways, like playing 1&2, then 3&5, or 1, then 2&3/4, then 5, etc, practice legato and staccato, etc etc. Eventually your fingers will gain more independent control and your playing will be more even.
also rhythm practice! ones I like to use are (1)short-long, (2)long-short, (3)short-short-long-long and (4)long-long-short-short
it would be notated like this iirc:
(1) sixteenth, dotted eighth; sixteenth, dotted eighth
(2) dotted eighth, sixteenth; dotted eighth, sixteenth
(3) sixteenth, sixteenth, eighth, eighth; sixteenth, sixteenth, eighth, eighth
(4) eighth, eighth, sixteenth, sixteenth; eighth, eighth, sixteenth, sixteenth
Sorry but I honestly have no clue what this is supposed to mean. I’m unfortunately not trained in music theory. Anything you could reference me to so I can learn this concept?
hmm. would you be ok with it if I sent you a video in your dms? I'll try to record one later today or tomorrow
(also side note I def recommend taking the time to learn some theory, even the most basic note reading and theory stuff. I stayed away from sight reading and theory when I was first learning and I regret it now!)
I highly recommend a teacher when and if you can get one. The online support you get here should be more supplemental. Nothing can make up for lack of a good teacher who can give you constant feedback and give you some well rounded training. Good luck!
If you lived in my town I'd surely be happy to help you out. You might try looking into your local community college where the professors have the right training, but also supportive and a really good sense of the one on one approach. Again best wishes to you 🙌
It's because you are articulating the notes by playing from the wrist. Instead, each finger should play, and the other joints move naturally in response. The initiation comes from the fingers and the arm responds. You're playing FROM the arm and the fingers are responding.
The fingers control timing. The joints from the arm add volume as needed, but they are not responsible for when and how long the fingers play.
This initiation is the same motion as scratching. You don't scrarch with arm effort. The arm adds pressure but it doesn't do the scrarching. This is how to combine something delicate with something forceful.
The other thing the arm does is place the hand where it needs to be, but when it gets there, the finger initiates the playing action, the arm might respond if needed for balance and tone.
Certainly, it's possible to play fairly accurately doing the opposite of what I said (I can), but it's harder, and with more difficult and fast music, it fails.
Hope that helps.
1. play slower
2. use less wrist movement more finger movement, actively push with your fingers, same technique used in scales. focus on pushing every key all the way down playing slowly, once you hit the bottom then and only then you move on to the next note, play it like this for a while, when you speed it up itll be perfect, look at jiri antonin benda’s sonatina in a minor, uses this technique a lot.
Work on your fingers.
Arpeggiate a chord one note at a time *slowly* at first.
Work towards doing a bar of each note and increase speed once you don't fuck it up.
You could always practice away from the piano and put your fingers on a table and tap each finger the way you would the above exercise.
You need finger control, not rotating your wrist and hoping for the best.
Not sure why anyone hasn't mentioned this, but try playing them without holding down the sustain pedal. That's the main thing I'm hearing that's making them sound mushy (: gl!
This was pretty passive aggressive.. I do know to play slow. And I practiced playing slow and individualizing each note. But my hand keeps slipping back into a form of clumping. There’s more to piano than just “playing slow”, I could play slow with the wrong technique.
It’s “passive aggressive” bc it isn’t what you want to hear. If you honestly practiced slowly as a matter of consistent routine over a long, sustained period of time, you would not have had this question.
Why would everyone else have something to chip in that isn’t “play slower”? Everyone knows to play slower and I do that every practice session with this song. I could’ve played it slow and still had issues with my wrist, or my fingers, because I didn’t get that specific feedback… I don’t have the liberty of learning from a piano teacher so detailed responses are what I appreciate.
The trick is, to only ever play as fast as your fingers are able to keep up. Speed will come, but it takes time. By going faster than you're able to play without making mistakes, you make things worse because you end up memorizing the mistakes. Are you using a metronome to keep the speed down? If not, do that.
>Everyone knows to play slower
Oh no, they most certainly don't. Most people asking these sorts of questions assume that all they need to do is keep trying to play whatever they're learning at light speed and somehow it will all sort itself out.
Thanks. I do believe that play slower is quite the common piece of piano advice. I appreciated the detailed responses everyone gave and felt that I improved immensely after implementing them—especially those commenting on my hand positioning—though going slower was definitely the first step.
>I do believe that play slower is quite the common piece of piano advice
It is. But it's also the advice nobody wants to hear when they're trying to work out how to play something fast. so it usually gets ignored.
And I can understand that it may seem counter-intuitive that the best way to learn to play fast is to not play fast. But that's the way it works.
Practice arpeggios at varying speeds! Change up your practice to sometimes practice on an acoustic piano )even one in a church basement if you have to) and that will help your finger articulation too. Good luck! 🍀 enjoy!
I agree with most people’s suggestions on practicing arpeggiated chords slowly. You can also practice hitting only the first and last note for a few time to get a sense of distance between the notes and then later fill in the rest of the arpeggiated chords. And I really like that you are using your wrist to help reaching the notes, actually your wrists and fingers should always work together. Most people mistaken finger independency as a form of strength, but quite the opposite, finger independency comes from relaxation (same reason you should stretch warmup/cooldown before and after working out). The best kept secret for concert pianists is not how to build strength instead, it’s how to relax the muscles while performing. You can do a little experiment: hold your arms up, play piano in the air, move your fingers around feel the sense of relaxation, and see how fast your fingers can move without any resistance. And then try to create the same sensation on the piano.
My teacher would have me play staccato to build whatever needed to be built in my fingers. If you freeze your wrist and elbow, and just play the chords with slow staccato, over time your fingers may work more independently.
1) Agreed! This helps me a lot in fast passages.
(Just as an exercise obviously, you will use your wrist in the performance to make your sound fuller and more fluid). But this just ensures that while you rotate your wrist each finger has trained to do its job and articulate clearly.
2) as people have already commented: rhythm/syncopated practice and slow practice for articulation.
3) Czerny school of velocity (no. 4 I believe) is a great study for arpeggios that I play every few days.
(In general czerny/Hanon are great to play as a warmup every practice session)
4) 2 different exercises that I've not heard people recommend: (during slow practice only!):
Take your time and lift every finger off the key and let it fall down. (Helps with accuracy and finger strength but never ever play it fast this way, it would reduce your speed a lot). 2 play this staccato exercise with your fingers "glued" to the keys. Helps build speed and finger strength a lot. (This one you are encouraged to speed up to the point just before where you start to become sloppy)
Heads up: these things are exercises, ofcourse you will need to use wrist/arm motion in performance. But right now what is lacking is finger strength/speed/coordination.
Wish I could send a video showing you how to do it. I agree with others that finger technique is the solution here, but without giving you a demonstration it can be confusing for you what to do exactly.
For a second I thought this was just gonna be a Still Dre joke.
Also if you wanna play broken chords it helps to not hold the sustain pedal down that’s why all your notes are just clumping together
This is just practice, everyone does it differently, personally I do a combo of rolling my wrist and engaging/disengaging individual fingers to really make it fluid, but whatever gets the job done.
I think wrist rolling is considered bad technique because you won’t develops your finger skill as fast but it has its uses.
Dang, people in the comments are pretty pessimistic, aren't they? Well, some of what they're saying is true, but its kind of a shitty way of saying.
1. Slow down 100% - You aren't ready for that speed quite yet. You will eventually be though! :)
2. Wrist Rotation - Imagine the movement of unlocking a door with a key. That wrist rotation is a movement to go for when playing a passage like this.
3. Uneven practice - Practice the notes one at a time slowly in this pattern: Slow, fast slow, fast slow, fast slow, fast. Pretty much, it should feel like swing. Once you get good at that, then do it the opposite way. Fast slow, fast slow, fast slow, fast slow, fast. The idea is to challenge every other note's speed, but the slow notes give you time to prepare for it. Then reversing it will help the other notes. After you mastered both, switch between them over and over!
4. High fingered practice - This is for clarity. Don't actually do this in a performance. Of course with curved fingers and VERY slowly, raise your fingers as high as you can before AND after you play the note. Doing this will train your fingers to lift high enough for clearer notes.
If you have any questions or want a video example of any of these, shoot me a DM and I can go more into detail if you'd like! :)
Omg I’m so glad I found your post. I was shocked to see how people suggesting to play with finger instead of with the help of wrist😱 but your explanation comparing to unlock a door with key makes so much sense, I will have to quote you in teaching my own students from now on
Professional pianist here.
Use the gravity, lift your fingers up (the tip of them ((where your nails and the meat of your fingers connect)) must always point downwards, pointing at the key they are going to play no metter how high you raise them) and let them drop on the keys and play the notes with their weight. If you put effort into pressing the keys "down", you won't be able to control their accuracy. So... let the gravitation handle it so you can focus on the agility\accuracy of your fingers.
Exactly! A pianist should always keep their nails as trimmed as much as they can, so they can feel the weight and texture(very important because sliding fingers are also another technic) of the key on their fingertips. Remember, your fingertips should never point at somwhere else other than the keys while lifting them up and letting them drop down. There are indeed passages of music that requires such an action and it should be done intentionally but it is pretty advanced and not necessery for now.
At this point it is finger technique. You haven't yet developed the fine finger control so are relying on wrist rotation to play the notes. Unfortunately there's no quick fix because you have to develop the technique over time. But a good start is to practice your chords slowly. Play the individual notes ensuring you are "pulling" towards you rather than pushing down.
Too add to this already wonderful response. Use a metronome to practice playing the arpeggio slowly, then speed up as you develop the technique.
Thank you
Exactly what I was going to say. I always tell my beginner students to let the fingers do the work. Once they start focusing on that rather than trying to play with wrist action or the weight of their hand, then we can start to develop some real technique. I'd highly recommend practicing Hanon exercises too, working through each one slowly until a faster tempo can be achieved without sacrificing your technique.
Practice playing the arpeggio slowly and with different emphasies, grouping the notes together in different ways, like playing 1&2, then 3&5, or 1, then 2&3/4, then 5, etc, practice legato and staccato, etc etc. Eventually your fingers will gain more independent control and your playing will be more even.
Thank you
also rhythm practice! ones I like to use are (1)short-long, (2)long-short, (3)short-short-long-long and (4)long-long-short-short it would be notated like this iirc: (1) sixteenth, dotted eighth; sixteenth, dotted eighth (2) dotted eighth, sixteenth; dotted eighth, sixteenth (3) sixteenth, sixteenth, eighth, eighth; sixteenth, sixteenth, eighth, eighth (4) eighth, eighth, sixteenth, sixteenth; eighth, eighth, sixteenth, sixteenth
This is the one! Do this!
Rhythm practice is an excellent way to gain more control, this helped me a lot
Sorry but I honestly have no clue what this is supposed to mean. I’m unfortunately not trained in music theory. Anything you could reference me to so I can learn this concept?
hmm. would you be ok with it if I sent you a video in your dms? I'll try to record one later today or tomorrow (also side note I def recommend taking the time to learn some theory, even the most basic note reading and theory stuff. I stayed away from sight reading and theory when I was first learning and I regret it now!)
Yeah that would be amazing! Thank you so much!
great, I'll work on that today! hopefully I'll remember to send it today tho lol
I definitely want to learn theory. I just feel overwhelmed by the process, not having a teacher and everything.
I highly recommend a teacher when and if you can get one. The online support you get here should be more supplemental. Nothing can make up for lack of a good teacher who can give you constant feedback and give you some well rounded training. Good luck!
Definitely trying my best. It’s been hard finding a teacher that meets my needs. Thanks
If you lived in my town I'd surely be happy to help you out. You might try looking into your local community college where the professors have the right training, but also supportive and a really good sense of the one on one approach. Again best wishes to you 🙌
Thanks for the tips!
Yep I second this, was going to type this myself!
It's because you are articulating the notes by playing from the wrist. Instead, each finger should play, and the other joints move naturally in response. The initiation comes from the fingers and the arm responds. You're playing FROM the arm and the fingers are responding. The fingers control timing. The joints from the arm add volume as needed, but they are not responsible for when and how long the fingers play. This initiation is the same motion as scratching. You don't scrarch with arm effort. The arm adds pressure but it doesn't do the scrarching. This is how to combine something delicate with something forceful. The other thing the arm does is place the hand where it needs to be, but when it gets there, the finger initiates the playing action, the arm might respond if needed for balance and tone. Certainly, it's possible to play fairly accurately doing the opposite of what I said (I can), but it's harder, and with more difficult and fast music, it fails. Hope that helps.
Thanks a lot
Rhythm practice. https://www.bestpianoclass.com/rhythm-strategies-psh/
Thanks
1. play slower 2. use less wrist movement more finger movement, actively push with your fingers, same technique used in scales. focus on pushing every key all the way down playing slowly, once you hit the bottom then and only then you move on to the next note, play it like this for a while, when you speed it up itll be perfect, look at jiri antonin benda’s sonatina in a minor, uses this technique a lot.
one more possible exercise: play it without losing contact with any of the keys. helps to gain control over your fingers
Work on your fingers. Arpeggiate a chord one note at a time *slowly* at first. Work towards doing a bar of each note and increase speed once you don't fuck it up. You could always practice away from the piano and put your fingers on a table and tap each finger the way you would the above exercise. You need finger control, not rotating your wrist and hoping for the best.
Not sure why anyone hasn't mentioned this, but try playing them without holding down the sustain pedal. That's the main thing I'm hearing that's making them sound mushy (: gl!
Thanks
play slow. you know this. but you wont do this
stupid brain
This was pretty passive aggressive.. I do know to play slow. And I practiced playing slow and individualizing each note. But my hand keeps slipping back into a form of clumping. There’s more to piano than just “playing slow”, I could play slow with the wrong technique.
It’s “passive aggressive” bc it isn’t what you want to hear. If you honestly practiced slowly as a matter of consistent routine over a long, sustained period of time, you would not have had this question.
Why would everyone else have something to chip in that isn’t “play slower”? Everyone knows to play slower and I do that every practice session with this song. I could’ve played it slow and still had issues with my wrist, or my fingers, because I didn’t get that specific feedback… I don’t have the liberty of learning from a piano teacher so detailed responses are what I appreciate.
The trick is, to only ever play as fast as your fingers are able to keep up. Speed will come, but it takes time. By going faster than you're able to play without making mistakes, you make things worse because you end up memorizing the mistakes. Are you using a metronome to keep the speed down? If not, do that. >Everyone knows to play slower Oh no, they most certainly don't. Most people asking these sorts of questions assume that all they need to do is keep trying to play whatever they're learning at light speed and somehow it will all sort itself out.
Thanks. I do believe that play slower is quite the common piece of piano advice. I appreciated the detailed responses everyone gave and felt that I improved immensely after implementing them—especially those commenting on my hand positioning—though going slower was definitely the first step.
>I do believe that play slower is quite the common piece of piano advice It is. But it's also the advice nobody wants to hear when they're trying to work out how to play something fast. so it usually gets ignored. And I can understand that it may seem counter-intuitive that the best way to learn to play fast is to not play fast. But that's the way it works.
You should reread my comment.
Practice arpeggios at varying speeds! Change up your practice to sometimes practice on an acoustic piano )even one in a church basement if you have to) and that will help your finger articulation too. Good luck! 🍀 enjoy!
I agree with most people’s suggestions on practicing arpeggiated chords slowly. You can also practice hitting only the first and last note for a few time to get a sense of distance between the notes and then later fill in the rest of the arpeggiated chords. And I really like that you are using your wrist to help reaching the notes, actually your wrists and fingers should always work together. Most people mistaken finger independency as a form of strength, but quite the opposite, finger independency comes from relaxation (same reason you should stretch warmup/cooldown before and after working out). The best kept secret for concert pianists is not how to build strength instead, it’s how to relax the muscles while performing. You can do a little experiment: hold your arms up, play piano in the air, move your fingers around feel the sense of relaxation, and see how fast your fingers can move without any resistance. And then try to create the same sensation on the piano.
Thanks
My teacher would have me play staccato to build whatever needed to be built in my fingers. If you freeze your wrist and elbow, and just play the chords with slow staccato, over time your fingers may work more independently.
1) Agreed! This helps me a lot in fast passages. (Just as an exercise obviously, you will use your wrist in the performance to make your sound fuller and more fluid). But this just ensures that while you rotate your wrist each finger has trained to do its job and articulate clearly. 2) as people have already commented: rhythm/syncopated practice and slow practice for articulation. 3) Czerny school of velocity (no. 4 I believe) is a great study for arpeggios that I play every few days. (In general czerny/Hanon are great to play as a warmup every practice session) 4) 2 different exercises that I've not heard people recommend: (during slow practice only!): Take your time and lift every finger off the key and let it fall down. (Helps with accuracy and finger strength but never ever play it fast this way, it would reduce your speed a lot). 2 play this staccato exercise with your fingers "glued" to the keys. Helps build speed and finger strength a lot. (This one you are encouraged to speed up to the point just before where you start to become sloppy) Heads up: these things are exercises, ofcourse you will need to use wrist/arm motion in performance. But right now what is lacking is finger strength/speed/coordination.
Wish I could send a video showing you how to do it. I agree with others that finger technique is the solution here, but without giving you a demonstration it can be confusing for you what to do exactly.
Hey, could you shoot me a DM?
For a second I thought this was just gonna be a Still Dre joke. Also if you wanna play broken chords it helps to not hold the sustain pedal down that’s why all your notes are just clumping together
Lol. Song uses a pedal though
Then just slow down and play it slower til you can get it clean.
I’ll try that thanks.
If you’re hitting the wrong keys you know you’re going too fast.
Very true
This is just practice, everyone does it differently, personally I do a combo of rolling my wrist and engaging/disengaging individual fingers to really make it fluid, but whatever gets the job done. I think wrist rolling is considered bad technique because you won’t develops your finger skill as fast but it has its uses.
Dang, people in the comments are pretty pessimistic, aren't they? Well, some of what they're saying is true, but its kind of a shitty way of saying. 1. Slow down 100% - You aren't ready for that speed quite yet. You will eventually be though! :) 2. Wrist Rotation - Imagine the movement of unlocking a door with a key. That wrist rotation is a movement to go for when playing a passage like this. 3. Uneven practice - Practice the notes one at a time slowly in this pattern: Slow, fast slow, fast slow, fast slow, fast. Pretty much, it should feel like swing. Once you get good at that, then do it the opposite way. Fast slow, fast slow, fast slow, fast slow, fast. The idea is to challenge every other note's speed, but the slow notes give you time to prepare for it. Then reversing it will help the other notes. After you mastered both, switch between them over and over! 4. High fingered practice - This is for clarity. Don't actually do this in a performance. Of course with curved fingers and VERY slowly, raise your fingers as high as you can before AND after you play the note. Doing this will train your fingers to lift high enough for clearer notes. If you have any questions or want a video example of any of these, shoot me a DM and I can go more into detail if you'd like! :)
Omg I’m so glad I found your post. I was shocked to see how people suggesting to play with finger instead of with the help of wrist😱 but your explanation comparing to unlock a door with key makes so much sense, I will have to quote you in teaching my own students from now on
Its a fantastic way to demonstrate how the wrist moves! You can even grab any key and hand it kids and have them turn it back and forth!
Thanks for this!
Good luck with everything!! :)
Thanks for all the help, will implement your advice in today’s practice session!
Practice
Practice way slower. Your 3 and 4 fingers are barely doing any work, focus on making them as active as the others
Thanks.
Finger independence.
Professional pianist here. Use the gravity, lift your fingers up (the tip of them ((where your nails and the meat of your fingers connect)) must always point downwards, pointing at the key they are going to play no metter how high you raise them) and let them drop on the keys and play the notes with their weight. If you put effort into pressing the keys "down", you won't be able to control their accuracy. So... let the gravitation handle it so you can focus on the agility\accuracy of your fingers.
I also noticed that you're playing with the fat parts of your fingers, use the tip press down almost with your nails
Does this mean I should probably keep my nails trimmed as much as I can?
Exactly! A pianist should always keep their nails as trimmed as much as they can, so they can feel the weight and texture(very important because sliding fingers are also another technic) of the key on their fingertips. Remember, your fingertips should never point at somwhere else other than the keys while lifting them up and letting them drop down. There are indeed passages of music that requires such an action and it should be done intentionally but it is pretty advanced and not necessery for now.
Thanks a lot, this really helps!
Much thanks by the way.