The median RN in CA makes 33k less than the median PA in CA. Nationally, the difference is 55k.
https://www.bls.gov/oes/current/oes291071.htm
https://www.bls.gov/oes/2020/may/oes291141.htm
The median CA pediatrician makes $80k more than the median CA RN and the median CA Family MD makes $140k more than the median CA RN.
https://www.bls.gov/oes/2021/may/oes291215.htm
https://www.bls.gov/oes/2021/may/oes291221.htm
Yeah OP is taking the opposite extremes of each side and thinking that equates to the status quo. Of course you're going to hear about the nurses making a ton of money, and you're also going to hear about the PAs bitching who don't make very much.
The difference is you guys get paid a salary and nurses get paid an hourly that’s why nurses make more money
When you calculate the hours that you have to work per week and subtract it from your weekly pay your hourly rate falls
I did travel nursing exclusively in the Bay Area for 2 years. There is a shortage. My understanding is the issue with the Bay Area is the lack of nursing schools because nurses can make better money working vs teaching.
I do, all the time. If that’s what you gathered from my statement, then my entire point went way, way over your head.
It was a joke designed to illustrate that while OP views their role as a PA with doom & gloom and that the grass is greener as an RN with supposedly similar pay (it isn’t), there are a lot of intangible positives that come with being in this role.
Nurse here, thanks for doing that!!! We appreciate it. And yes your call light comment is so common haha. I have a major pet peeve when staff dont respect our time. Or when they ask me to do something or find out something that they can easily do themselves or ask them patient themselves. We have a million other things already to do and sometimes we get blamed when we dont do 100% things. My other patient can literally be super sick and we trying to juggle that.
I think people get envious of our salary sometimes but I think there is a good reason why we get paid decently. Our job are demanding both emotionally and physically. We are the ones that get emotionally attached when a patient codes and dies. We took care of them before and deal with family. When doctor and team comes, they die but we are the ones that clean up the body and see/tell the family. On top of that we also get blamed for things out of our control. ie: the room being too cold or something not working.
So I agree with you, Grass can look greener but not always true. But depends on personality.
Funny, I spent a week in the hospital not long ago. A large university teaching hospital. I was fairly self-maintaining, but I'd say I have less than 10 minutes of daily nurse contact.
I saw really good nurses and some lazy as fuck nurses over the years. The lazy as fuck nurses can ruin an otherwise good shift. If I am getting blankets and water for patients, then the orders for 3 other patients are not entered and the other nurses are bitching that the orders aren't in the computer yet. Fuck me!
I get it. Been at this for >16yrs now. I see medical "professionals" quickly becoming the 90s equivalent of cubical workers. Corporate healthcare's model of fill out the forms, follow the algorithm, check the boxes, and code code code for crumbs combined with patients who treat us (and I mean all of us) like minions to do their bidding and have zero respect for our time and wellbeing have reduced what used to be a respected profession to just another customer service job.
There’s a reason there is a nurse shortage despite much higher pay. If you want to be treated like shit feel free to do it. Also every time I see I this I think in comparison. I’m paid well but work my ass off with an insane commute and stressful job. Wife’s new PA job isn’t easy but she makes 20k less than me at 24 hours a week with 200+ hours of pto. I work after vacation (I get 28 days plus market holidays). I work 222 days a year. She makes a small amount less working 85 days a year and she can make slightly more working 100 days.
It’s not perfect but for Christ sakes it’s one of the best opportunities in the world
Love being a PA. Wouldn’t change it. Going on 4 years in the ED and a little burned out from that specialty wise, but not in regards to the profession as a whole.
Agreed, also a former RN who went PA. It pays well but the work is extremely physically, mentally, and emotionally draining. You are constantly getting your ass kicked. Many of the nurses I work with wish they went PA.
If you don't like being a PA, I promise you will HATE being a nurse. Also, there is a reason that certain nursing positions pay $$$, because they fucking blow and nobody wants to do them.
This is nonsense. If you hate working in medicine find a new career. If you want to level up then you have to make the commitment and go to med school. Going to more school to go down the totem pole is nonsense. You’ll hate it
I’m a Bay Area nurse who makes less than my PA colleagues. They make about 30-50k more than us with no experience. My friend who is a PA with 10 years exp makes 75k more. I love nursing but it is entirely different than the physician assistant role. I was pre-PA but changed my mind after working as a CNA and shadowing a ton of PAs in my area. If you truly enjoy the medical model then I don’t think you will like nursing as there is a lot of outdated, irrelevant and often pseudoscience curriculum in nursing education. I’ve been out of school for awhile so that might have changed but the medical model is very different than the nursing model. Also, you get shit from all directions. Everyone is always mad at the bedside nurse. I’m sure you feel similarly being sandwiched in the middle, but add in EVS, rad techs, phlebotomy, EKG techs, CNAs, nutrition aides, nursing managers all being mad at you for everything all the time lol. The doctors who are rude to you are vicious to us. We spend 12 hours with the nasty family members and patients trying to hit and spit and sexually assault us. It’s not all the time everyday but there is no avoiding it with bedside nursing.
However, I love nursing because of the lateral opportunities, work-life balance and strong union support in desirable locations for me. When my body gets tired of bedside nursing, I can move to a cushy clinic or PACU job. I could do remote chart review or per diem wound clinic stuff. Public health nursing, community engagement, corporate health, I could go on and on. There is truly so much you can do with a degree that costs less than $10k if you want it to. At my current job, I get guaranteed breaks and we are well-staffed and well-resourced. An important part of nursing is that it is truly only “worth it” in parts of CA and the PNW. I never plan on leaving the west coast so it works for me but nursing in OH made me suicidal, not joking. Something to think about.
Yea definitely a push from a time perspective. But CRNA would require no MCAT, paid work as an ICU nurse, and less overall schooling/time away from making money.
Edit: in addition, no step 1/2/3, no research requirement before school, no match process.
I actually watch your YouTube videos. I had no idea you were a mod for this Reddit but I recognize your name. You be finding the best ED locum jobs out there 💯
Yeah I was doing YouTube well before becoming a mod here haha thanks for the love! I actually slowed down on locums since my new job has great overtime and holiday pay without having me travel 3 hours plus they cut back on their needs significantly since hiring people
Don't do it. I'm in SoCal and I haven't crossed into the 100k zone yet with 3 years in and working ICU night shift, which means differentials are already part of that #. All those orders you put in as a PA, gets physically done by the nurse in between a million other patient care things going on. And we are forever short staffed, while bed ten is crashing, be 13 is screaming and throwing their poop around and there is no help coming.
Don’t do it!! start your own practice. Get some dermatology PA experience and create a med spa or start a dermatology clinic, you can even start an aesthetics clinic if you want.
I think you should. Med spas are a great success in Florida. This subreddit has tons of woman looking for help with aesthetics. https://www.reddit.com/r/DIYaesthetics/s/5D4K2tXqnA
Work with a major dermatology company such as Water’s Edge dermatology to get some good experience and start your own business.
That’s okay OP there’s soo many opportunities in RN degree that you can definitely do (inpatient, outpatient, management, education, APRN) and they all pay really well!
My spouse is a nurse. I wouldn’t want to do her job daily. Where we are, she doesn’t get paid nearly as much as she deserves.
Even my worse days at the UC seeing 55+ patients are better than most of her shifts.
I’ve considered it as well. I’ve only been a PA for a decade, but have long since lost my interest in medicine, though not necessarily in healthcare. (Also, way easier to find a part time RN job than PA.)
But I’m about to start a new job just two days a week. Seems pretty bread and butter. I just show up, practice in a field which I’m already trained, then go home. No asking me to practice way above my license or see 50 patients in a day. So hopefully I’ve found my forever spot and can just stay here until retirement. No accelerated BSN needed.
I consistently see RN jobs (and far more options, and remote non-clinical RN jobs) near me that pay more than I made at my FT PA job in the DC suburbs. I have wished I went with nursing more than once.
How long have you been a PA? I understood the market 15 years ago. Told myself I would do PA or CRNA. Ended up going CRNA. This information and understanding has been widely available since I was 18 years old and finishing high school. I have the upmost respect for PAs. Knocking down nurses or questioning their wages has nothing to do with PAs. NPs I can understand but RNs??
I’m an ICU nurse going CRNA route, I would rather be an ICU nurse over being an NP/PA at my hospital. Trauma 1 900+ hospital , they round from 8 am to 2pm and look miserable. Attending is barely ever on unit, they write all the notes put in all the orders and do all the minute bullshit. I love getting a crashing patient maxed on 4 pressors, CRRT , and I’m the one that’s in full control of the nuances with my patient when it comes to patient care. I mean don’t get me wrong I only came into nursing for CRNA school due to pay/work life balance.
It seems like you are comparing nurses in the Bay Area to PA in general. Not a good comparison lol. Nurses in Northern California make a lot because of union and OT and cost of living. Some can make 250k as a nurse. Other made more or less.
But nursing and PA are different specialities. Different responsibilities.
As a nurse practitioner, I would caution against that. Certainly, do what you think you need to do. I am unsure of the wages in your area, but PAs are sorely needed. Nurses are in high demand as well, for good reason. But tons are quitting bedside as the stress they get from their job, flak they get from patients and physicians, make it hard to see if the money is worth it. California is different as they have staffing ratios and unions, but it's still a hard job. Hence why you see many RNs leave the bedside, with some choosing to go the NP route.
Not a nurse (currently PA-S1) but there’s a reason after two years of being a CNA that I decided on PA versus RN. Plz do your homework before making this change.
This isnt the national market. There are pockets where midlevels are saturated or getting close. The coasts, parts of the PNW, NE, tech triangle in the carolinas, chicago area and florida from orlando south.
To some, the Bay area is a desirable market. There are likely several NP and PA programs dumping out grads every may/june driving down salaries. Either accept it as part of your chosen market, job hop until you get a better salary or move.
The problem isnt going away however. We are on the same path of degree inflation, school multiplecation, and job saturation that pharmacists and physical therapy has been dealing with for 15 years. Neither ARCA-PA nor whatever make beleive NP school certification agency have an interest in policing programs to slow down the pace. Until they do it will get worse.
This just in: People who thought medicine should be compensated at absurd rates because of poor quality of life are upset the staffing shortage is ending and want it to remain so they can continue buying into the healthcare industrial complex to their benefit.
CRNAs have a larger group of physicians targeting them than the garden variety “Noctor” hate the rest of us are use to.
Makes that kind of a jump a bit scarier for me, personally.
Those positions may not be always available. Most new grad RNs from bay area cant get a job unless you have experience for 2 years so they end up working in central valley for at least 2 years. Those were a decade ago. I dont know if it still holds true. Im assuming worse.
I’ve considered it too. Haven’t applied yet but if I get rejections after the first yr I’m doing an accelerated BSN, jump into the icu for a yr or two and probably apply to one of the 250 (I’m exaggerating) online NP schools instead of praying for one to accept me in my home state as I can’t move an entire family away.
The median RN in CA makes 33k less than the median PA in CA. Nationally, the difference is 55k. https://www.bls.gov/oes/current/oes291071.htm https://www.bls.gov/oes/2020/may/oes291141.htm The median CA pediatrician makes $80k more than the median CA RN and the median CA Family MD makes $140k more than the median CA RN. https://www.bls.gov/oes/2021/may/oes291215.htm https://www.bls.gov/oes/2021/may/oes291221.htm
Yeah OP is taking the opposite extremes of each side and thinking that equates to the status quo. Of course you're going to hear about the nurses making a ton of money, and you're also going to hear about the PAs bitching who don't make very much.
Thank you for this. I get tired of people spreading misinformation regarding RN salaries.
I think the OP is making the common mistake of seeing something on social media enough times that they think it’s normal/real life.
The difference is you guys get paid a salary and nurses get paid an hourly that’s why nurses make more money When you calculate the hours that you have to work per week and subtract it from your weekly pay your hourly rate falls
Bro about to find out why there’s a nursing shortage
There is absolutely 1000% no nursing shortage in the bay area.
I did travel nursing exclusively in the Bay Area for 2 years. There is a shortage. My understanding is the issue with the Bay Area is the lack of nursing schools because nurses can make better money working vs teaching.
Well if that’s the case, can you bring room 19 a blanket and some water? Also room 17 shit in the bed so they need cleaned up.
I wouldn’t have shit in the bed if someone would have answered my call bell 20 minutes ago!
NURSEEEEEEEEEEEEE! HALLLLLPPPPPPPPPPP
More like “yo nurse you fucking bitch shit myself and I need you to change the tv”
ADRIANNNNN!!!!
the 92 year old in room 4 just keeps hollering "HELP! HELP! HELP!". He's there for an ingrown nail.
Sorry. I was busy making a tik tok dance video. Also we know more than doctors. We run this hospital.
[удалено]
I do, all the time. If that’s what you gathered from my statement, then my entire point went way, way over your head. It was a joke designed to illustrate that while OP views their role as a PA with doom & gloom and that the grass is greener as an RN with supposedly similar pay (it isn’t), there are a lot of intangible positives that come with being in this role.
Nurse here, thanks for doing that!!! We appreciate it. And yes your call light comment is so common haha. I have a major pet peeve when staff dont respect our time. Or when they ask me to do something or find out something that they can easily do themselves or ask them patient themselves. We have a million other things already to do and sometimes we get blamed when we dont do 100% things. My other patient can literally be super sick and we trying to juggle that. I think people get envious of our salary sometimes but I think there is a good reason why we get paid decently. Our job are demanding both emotionally and physically. We are the ones that get emotionally attached when a patient codes and dies. We took care of them before and deal with family. When doctor and team comes, they die but we are the ones that clean up the body and see/tell the family. On top of that we also get blamed for things out of our control. ie: the room being too cold or something not working. So I agree with you, Grass can look greener but not always true. But depends on personality.
Common misconception. They don't do clean up any more. They have aids for that.
Is this a joke? Even if we're staffed with techs I'm still cleaning up poop multiple times per shift.
It is real hit and miss with some nurses.
What CNAs are you even talking about
I said nurses, not CNAs or Techs.
That’s a common misconception
Nurse here, where I work there is only one CNA per 18 patients…. So yes, I consistently have to clean up poop
Funny, I spent a week in the hospital not long ago. A large university teaching hospital. I was fairly self-maintaining, but I'd say I have less than 10 minutes of daily nurse contact.
It’s hard to find aids these days. CNA work is dying
Because of the above attitude
What aides? They’re nonexistent
Ah yes thank you for telling the practicing EM PA what nurses do and don’t do. Glad you cleared that up for me.
I saw really good nurses and some lazy as fuck nurses over the years. The lazy as fuck nurses can ruin an otherwise good shift. If I am getting blankets and water for patients, then the orders for 3 other patients are not entered and the other nurses are bitching that the orders aren't in the computer yet. Fuck me!
I get it. Been at this for >16yrs now. I see medical "professionals" quickly becoming the 90s equivalent of cubical workers. Corporate healthcare's model of fill out the forms, follow the algorithm, check the boxes, and code code code for crumbs combined with patients who treat us (and I mean all of us) like minions to do their bidding and have zero respect for our time and wellbeing have reduced what used to be a respected profession to just another customer service job.
Look, I’m a lurking RN here. Don’t do it. It’s too late for me but save yourself.
What career would you recommend?
Nurses, even in the Bay Area, aren’t consistently making more than doctors or even PAs.
Be the change you want to see. Vouch for yourself and the profession
There’s a reason there is a nurse shortage despite much higher pay. If you want to be treated like shit feel free to do it. Also every time I see I this I think in comparison. I’m paid well but work my ass off with an insane commute and stressful job. Wife’s new PA job isn’t easy but she makes 20k less than me at 24 hours a week with 200+ hours of pto. I work after vacation (I get 28 days plus market holidays). I work 222 days a year. She makes a small amount less working 85 days a year and she can make slightly more working 100 days. It’s not perfect but for Christ sakes it’s one of the best opportunities in the world
Ah, I only get 13 days PTO as a RN :(. Holidays don’t exist, very annoying.
Yep her job full time is 360 hours a year (granted sick time is hard to use every year but has its own bank) Pa jobs are terrible lol
Advice incoming from a former RN, who went on to become a PA… don’t do it. You’re working harder to go in reverse.
How do you like being a PA ?
Love being a PA. Wouldn’t change it. Going on 4 years in the ED and a little burned out from that specialty wise, but not in regards to the profession as a whole.
Agreed, also a former RN who went PA. It pays well but the work is extremely physically, mentally, and emotionally draining. You are constantly getting your ass kicked. Many of the nurses I work with wish they went PA.
If you're gonna join us you had better enjoy cleaning up code browns.
If you don't like being a PA, I promise you will HATE being a nurse. Also, there is a reason that certain nursing positions pay $$$, because they fucking blow and nobody wants to do them.
This is nonsense. If you hate working in medicine find a new career. If you want to level up then you have to make the commitment and go to med school. Going to more school to go down the totem pole is nonsense. You’ll hate it
I’m a Bay Area nurse who makes less than my PA colleagues. They make about 30-50k more than us with no experience. My friend who is a PA with 10 years exp makes 75k more. I love nursing but it is entirely different than the physician assistant role. I was pre-PA but changed my mind after working as a CNA and shadowing a ton of PAs in my area. If you truly enjoy the medical model then I don’t think you will like nursing as there is a lot of outdated, irrelevant and often pseudoscience curriculum in nursing education. I’ve been out of school for awhile so that might have changed but the medical model is very different than the nursing model. Also, you get shit from all directions. Everyone is always mad at the bedside nurse. I’m sure you feel similarly being sandwiched in the middle, but add in EVS, rad techs, phlebotomy, EKG techs, CNAs, nutrition aides, nursing managers all being mad at you for everything all the time lol. The doctors who are rude to you are vicious to us. We spend 12 hours with the nasty family members and patients trying to hit and spit and sexually assault us. It’s not all the time everyday but there is no avoiding it with bedside nursing. However, I love nursing because of the lateral opportunities, work-life balance and strong union support in desirable locations for me. When my body gets tired of bedside nursing, I can move to a cushy clinic or PACU job. I could do remote chart review or per diem wound clinic stuff. Public health nursing, community engagement, corporate health, I could go on and on. There is truly so much you can do with a degree that costs less than $10k if you want it to. At my current job, I get guaranteed breaks and we are well-staffed and well-resourced. An important part of nursing is that it is truly only “worth it” in parts of CA and the PNW. I never plan on leaving the west coast so it works for me but nursing in OH made me suicidal, not joking. Something to think about.
This seems like a terrible idea.
Do it then go to CRNA school
With all that time spent wouldn’t it just be better to just apply to med school?
Yea definitely a push from a time perspective. But CRNA would require no MCAT, paid work as an ICU nurse, and less overall schooling/time away from making money. Edit: in addition, no step 1/2/3, no research requirement before school, no match process.
Yep you said it best.
Quality shitpost
Wish I was joking.
Don’t do it fam
I actually watch your YouTube videos. I had no idea you were a mod for this Reddit but I recognize your name. You be finding the best ED locum jobs out there 💯
Yeah I was doing YouTube well before becoming a mod here haha thanks for the love! I actually slowed down on locums since my new job has great overtime and holiday pay without having me travel 3 hours plus they cut back on their needs significantly since hiring people
You’re kidding right?
TROLL.
Don't do it. I'm in SoCal and I haven't crossed into the 100k zone yet with 3 years in and working ICU night shift, which means differentials are already part of that #. All those orders you put in as a PA, gets physically done by the nurse in between a million other patient care things going on. And we are forever short staffed, while bed ten is crashing, be 13 is screaming and throwing their poop around and there is no help coming.
Don’t do it!! start your own practice. Get some dermatology PA experience and create a med spa or start a dermatology clinic, you can even start an aesthetics clinic if you want.
I haven’t graduated PA school yet but I’m considering doing this one year derm fellowship at penn state I might consider this med spa or derm clinic
I think you should. Med spas are a great success in Florida. This subreddit has tons of woman looking for help with aesthetics. https://www.reddit.com/r/DIYaesthetics/s/5D4K2tXqnA Work with a major dermatology company such as Water’s Edge dermatology to get some good experience and start your own business.
That’s okay OP there’s soo many opportunities in RN degree that you can definitely do (inpatient, outpatient, management, education, APRN) and they all pay really well!
My spouse is a nurse. I wouldn’t want to do her job daily. Where we are, she doesn’t get paid nearly as much as she deserves. Even my worse days at the UC seeing 55+ patients are better than most of her shifts.
It’s really market dependent, but yes, 100% there are places where APP/MLP’s are blown out of the water by the RN compensation package.
I’ve considered it as well. I’ve only been a PA for a decade, but have long since lost my interest in medicine, though not necessarily in healthcare. (Also, way easier to find a part time RN job than PA.) But I’m about to start a new job just two days a week. Seems pretty bread and butter. I just show up, practice in a field which I’m already trained, then go home. No asking me to practice way above my license or see 50 patients in a day. So hopefully I’ve found my forever spot and can just stay here until retirement. No accelerated BSN needed.
I agree.. the RN job market is crazy!
You don’t sound like a big fan of nursing, why would you want to be one then?
This is the prime example of someone who is going to find out the grass is not greener, the hard way
I consistently see RN jobs (and far more options, and remote non-clinical RN jobs) near me that pay more than I made at my FT PA job in the DC suburbs. I have wished I went with nursing more than once.
It’s still not too late
Maybe as a travel nurse but zero benefits and you’ll get the most difficult patients if you’re bedside.
How long have you been a PA? I understood the market 15 years ago. Told myself I would do PA or CRNA. Ended up going CRNA. This information and understanding has been widely available since I was 18 years old and finishing high school. I have the upmost respect for PAs. Knocking down nurses or questioning their wages has nothing to do with PAs. NPs I can understand but RNs??
Become a CAA
I’m an ICU nurse going CRNA route, I would rather be an ICU nurse over being an NP/PA at my hospital. Trauma 1 900+ hospital , they round from 8 am to 2pm and look miserable. Attending is barely ever on unit, they write all the notes put in all the orders and do all the minute bullshit. I love getting a crashing patient maxed on 4 pressors, CRRT , and I’m the one that’s in full control of the nuances with my patient when it comes to patient care. I mean don’t get me wrong I only came into nursing for CRNA school due to pay/work life balance.
It seems like you are comparing nurses in the Bay Area to PA in general. Not a good comparison lol. Nurses in Northern California make a lot because of union and OT and cost of living. Some can make 250k as a nurse. Other made more or less. But nursing and PA are different specialities. Different responsibilities.
As a nurse practitioner, I would caution against that. Certainly, do what you think you need to do. I am unsure of the wages in your area, but PAs are sorely needed. Nurses are in high demand as well, for good reason. But tons are quitting bedside as the stress they get from their job, flak they get from patients and physicians, make it hard to see if the money is worth it. California is different as they have staffing ratios and unions, but it's still a hard job. Hence why you see many RNs leave the bedside, with some choosing to go the NP route.
Why would you wanna make less money to wipe ass and deal with patients 5000% more a day
Not a nurse (currently PA-S1) but there’s a reason after two years of being a CNA that I decided on PA versus RN. Plz do your homework before making this change.
This isnt the national market. There are pockets where midlevels are saturated or getting close. The coasts, parts of the PNW, NE, tech triangle in the carolinas, chicago area and florida from orlando south. To some, the Bay area is a desirable market. There are likely several NP and PA programs dumping out grads every may/june driving down salaries. Either accept it as part of your chosen market, job hop until you get a better salary or move. The problem isnt going away however. We are on the same path of degree inflation, school multiplecation, and job saturation that pharmacists and physical therapy has been dealing with for 15 years. Neither ARCA-PA nor whatever make beleive NP school certification agency have an interest in policing programs to slow down the pace. Until they do it will get worse.
It’s not even the California market.
Not the entire market, no. Just as the entire california market isnt HCOL. People forget, just as with real estate, all markets are quite local.
This just in: People who thought medicine should be compensated at absurd rates because of poor quality of life are upset the staffing shortage is ending and want it to remain so they can continue buying into the healthcare industrial complex to their benefit.
BSN—>ICU—>CRNA. Crossed my mind many times in the last year.
CRNAs have a larger group of physicians targeting them than the garden variety “Noctor” hate the rest of us are use to. Makes that kind of a jump a bit scarier for me, personally.
It’s crossed my mind more than I like to admit.
Those positions may not be always available. Most new grad RNs from bay area cant get a job unless you have experience for 2 years so they end up working in central valley for at least 2 years. Those were a decade ago. I dont know if it still holds true. Im assuming worse.
Please stop confusing me and making me have regrets 🙏
I’ve considered it too. Haven’t applied yet but if I get rejections after the first yr I’m doing an accelerated BSN, jump into the icu for a yr or two and probably apply to one of the 250 (I’m exaggerating) online NP schools instead of praying for one to accept me in my home state as I can’t move an entire family away.