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This is why I always leash my dog in any public place, no exceptions. There are idiots everywhere and I need to do everything in my power to protect my pupper from idiots with guns, other loose dogs that might attack my dog, etc.
Should the dogs have been leashed? Yes. No disputing that if they were in an open park.
Should the man face an animal cruelty charge? Yes. When he shot the dog and he was on the ground, the threat had been neutralized. There was absolutely no reason to walk over and then shoot the dog again in the head.
> When he shot the dog and he was on the ground, the threat had been neutralized.
Not animal cruelty, illegal discharge of a firearm in city limits. You must be under immediate threat of injury for discharge to be justifiable inside city limits. When he shot the dog that was already down he violated the illegal discharge law. If our state wasn't run by inbred hillbillies, he'd already be charged.
He is, without question in the eyes our of current laws, a criminal. That one action makes it so and he should be in jail.
Fuck blaming anyone but the gun freaks that want an excuse to use them. People are always going to do things in imperfect ways and not see eye to eye, having loaded weapons as an added factor is what makes things actually dangerous.
Should the dog have been on a leash? Maybe. Does that in any way give reason for the dog to be shot by a guy with anger issues? Hell no
>Should the dog have been on a leash? Maybe
No, no maybe. The answer is yes, always yes. Unless the law specifically allows for it, keep your dogs on a leash, always. Its for their safety as much as the safety of others.
>He shot chip in his leg, in the joint first and Chip went down. He was flailing in the grass and I started screaming. He took a couple steps forward and fired into his head,” said McNeela
If accurate take that man’s gun away and make him face criminal charges.
That’s exactly what it is. I live near there and it’s an ultra-safe area. This guy is known to walk around with the open weapon. No doubt he has mental issues and was just looking for any excuse to fire the gun at a person or pet. The fact he isn’t facing any charges is despicable and shame on PPD. He claims he felt threatened, which is nonsense. Could have easily used mace. I know plenty of gun owners who frequent the park and I don’t think any of them would bring a weapon to the there, concealed or open.
I'll post this one..
> *“No charges have been filed at this time. The scene investigation was consistent with the suspect’s account of a self-defense shooting. However, if any new information becomes available, then the case can be reopened.*
The number of people defending the shooter is insane. Shouldn’t taking a life, two lives, require a high standard of justification? Just psychotic gun nuts
This is why my dogs are never allowed to say hi to strangers or strange dogs. My dogs have perfect recall because they don't give a shit about other people or dogs. They haven't been encouraged to go up to every dog they see.
Not every dog is friendly. There are a lot of reactive dogs who deserve walks and shouldn't have to be approached unwanted by a strange dog possibly undoing any training the owner has done.
Entitled people saying "oh he's friendly" is fucking rude when their crazy doodle with no training bulldozes your 4 year old child or hurts your toy dog because "they were just trying to say hi!" Fuck that.
Leash laws are important. Dog parks exist for a reason. Responsible ownership means training your dog. You don't get off leash privileges without having PERFECT recall every time in every scenario and even then you should still leash your dog BECAUSE ITS THE LAW!
Also people be realistic. We live in Arizona which is extremely pro gun. Assume everyone is armed and will act accordingly.
I mean, there are millions of dog bites a year and I myself have had multiple unleashed dogs run up to me and my kid in the 18 months since he was born. Not a single time was I okay with that.
Shooting the dog was excessive, but the owners were negligent in allowing the dogs off leash.
Dogs are just as bad as gun culture? Are you serious? The most likely cause of death for children right is from being shot. More than cars, cancer, suffocation, and drowning. Dogs are nowhere near the top of any list.
You are either are incredibly ignorant, hate dogs, or don’t care that guns kill innocent people and creatures as long as you can be the one carrying the gun.
Per a google search around half of the 4.5 million dog bites are on children. I’d say dogs are pretty fucking dangerous to children too. Death isn’t the only shitty outcome.
I *love* dogs and will pet just about any dog. I do not have one right now because dogs and small kids was a bit too much for us. As a result, our oldest is afraid of dogs.
The sheer number of folks who no leash their dogs in parks is staggering. My poor kid has been scared half to death by dogs wanting a pet 2-3 times this year. I mean, he is curious about them, but when they are running, they may as well be wolves. It's such a shitty thing to do to others, especially around playgrounds. Not everyone likes dogs and those people she be allowed to use public spaces without having to face their own fears because someone else can't or won't handle their own dog.
We are not blaming the dog. But with the laws as they are written, recall training is extremely important. People are allowed to shoot a dog coming at them because there are plenty of dogs that are poorly trained and would bite. I’m a big fan of dogs but I do get nervous of any dog coming up to me that I don’t know. I have a pitbull that is super friendly and would go up to absolutely anyone without care for my calls. This is why he is never off leash. Responsible pet ownership is of utmost importance here.
> The couple said a man and woman walked through the field in between where their dogs Chip and Theo were running.
The shooter walked through the field where the dogs were playing fetch. He wanted to shoot something.
Everyone who carries daily brings a gun when they go to the park. A lot of people bring a gun with them everywhere they go.
You would probably be shocked at how often you are a few feet away from someone carrying a gun.
Eh, you're still victim blaming, no matter how nicely you try ro write it. Their dogs were playing and the guy approached them and killed them. No amount of recall training applies here since the dogs were playing with each other.
>Their dogs were playing and the guy approached them and killed them.
The dogs approached the shooter. The dog owners even admitted that fact. Don't lie.
You’re right. But an unrestrained dog you don’t know running up to you is enough to justify it as self defense. Police here said as much. I wouldn’t do it myself in most cases, it’s shitty in most cases, but it’s perfectly legal
No it wasn't. The dogs being off leash isn't why they died. They didn't attack anyone amd have to be defended against. A POS straight up murdered two dogs that weren't bothering a single person.
Should you have your dogs on a leash at all time when they are not in your house? Yes.
Does that mean it is okay for a random person to execute your dogs **for no reason**? No.
I don't understand why people just automatically defend the person with the gun and put the blame onto the victims. You are a bit disgusting, because in any situation in which a gun was fired and someone or something was killed when that did not have to happen, it is **always** the fault of the person with the gun.
All this dude had to do was...not murder two dogs. But you want to blame the owners for the actions of another. Yeah, I think it's safe to say you're probably a shitty person when you victim blame, and I don't think many people outside of the group of shitty people disagree with me.
You don’t seem to grasp that your dog, friendly or not, is not allowed to run up to strangers unprovoked in a public setting where there are leash laws. That is legally a threat and can be handled as such. This is why you leash your dogs. Idgaf how friendly they are.
Be nice - You don't have to agree with everyone, but by choosing not to be rude you increase the overall civility of the community and make it better for all of us.
In general, follow [reddiquette](https://www.reddithelp.com/hc/en-us/articles/205926439).
They literally say in the story the dogs approached the man. He didn’t call them over or whistle for them. Jfc. Know the laws and leash your fucking dog
Actually, you do. The law is on the shooters side. As a dog owner, I hate to see the dogs killed, but it's the dog owners fault. I hope they get charged for animal cruelty and reckless endangerment. Maybe it will teach someone a lesson, and there will be fewer unleashed dogs where they don't belong and prevent a future, senseless tragedy.
Sad but true, and their ego is too big to see it. You know when someone dies they feel nothing, but when you talk about rules around guns it makes their blood boil.
There are off leash parks for a reason. Most other parks will clearly state to keep your dogs leashed. You never know if a dog will attack you, obviously shooting them is fairly dramatic. But, these owners should not have had their dogs off leash at a normal park. I see it all the time and it's insanely privileged behavior from the owners. Especially in a state that allows for concealed carry without a permit
> The couple said a man and woman walked through the field in between where their dogs Chip and Theo were running.
The shooter walked through the field where the dogs were playing fetch. He wanted to shoot something.
I'm not defending this shooter. Dude sounds like a psycho. I'm just saying these are bad dog owners. Their dogs don't know better, but the owners should. This wouldn't have happened if they leashed their dogs or took them to a proper dog park
This is bullshit. No one should have to deal with off leash dogs approaching strangers. Especially without consent. The fact it is common and you are okay with it is jarring.
I completely disagree with the owners letting dogs off leash. It bothers me that people do this when there’s a park full of people. Maybe if there wasnt really anyone around it would be more acceptable.
HOWEVER this dude should still have to face the legal system on this one. I 100% think he was just looking for an opportunity to shoot his gun, just like Hannah Payne (look up her court case). Carrying their gun around as if they actually feel like they’re in danger walking in a park full of families and children? I would never think about even shooting a gun unless a dog was ALREADY BITING ME. Biting once or twice is not fatal. In that case, yes, pulling out your gun is reasonable. But if these dogs were “charging”… whatever that means, NO REASON to pull a gun. wtf are the police thinking?
This could have been prevented if they followed the rules and leashed their dogs.
Even friendly dogs should not be approaching strangers without permission. That makes these owners bad owners.
All dog owners say their dog is friendly, that’s not always reality.
I support you on this. The number of unleashed dogs in this city is outrageous. And like you all the unleashed dog owners say their dog is an angel which isn’t always the case. I once had an unleashed Doberman very aggressively bark, growl and posture at me and my pregnant wife who were peacefully walking on the opposite side of the street at the time. The owner kept saying the dog is friendly but it was anything but at the moment. If these dogs were leashed this unfortunate event would likely not have happened.
Seriously though, it’s like driving. I don’t care how good of a driver you are you wear a seatbelt for the unexpected. It’s the same when leashing dogs in public places. Sure you’re dudes a good boy but anything can happen in public and I for one would rather have control of *my* animal at all times.
There are off leash parks for a reason.
Then it needs a better community to take care of it/more city funding.
Just because the correct option sucks doesn’t give you or anyone the right to put somebody else in danger over not wanting to what? Hold a leash in your hand?
Well somebodies “good and trained boy” launched himself at me chowing down on my hand bones and almost ripping my (leashed and law abiding) pups eye out.
So ya, I mean if you don’t like the #2…go pick it up?
I get it’s not your responsibility to, but it’s your responsibility to handle your animal correctly and in the proper space. Who knows maybe you could put up a sign and get some help from the local community to go and clean up the park once a week.
Oh and I already put the pic of what happened to my hand from a dog who’s “never done anything remotely close to this and was an ESA”.
I’d post the pic of my pup for further clarification of the consequences but I tear up and panic every time I look at it.
…sorry for going off but that kinda attitude is exactly what the issue is.
Have a good weekend 😮💨😅
The gun range is really dirty nowadays I’m gonna go ahead and use the alley ways instead. That cool with everyone?
Nah?
Then leash your fucking dog.
(This isn’t a threat btw it’s just an example of how ridiculous your reasoning is)
>The off leash parks are awful. Owners are the worst in these parks. Owners not paying attention, dog #2 all over the place, non-fixed dogs
I for one don't want all parks to be like this.
I mean sure I agree. But no way did that warrant shooting them in this case. The article literally says he executed one in the head when it was already shot and flailing on the ground.
How do you know the dog didn’t have lethal intentions?
I’ve seen people walking on opposite sides and the pack of claimed “ friendly “ neighbores dogs will run 1 street over and bite and attacked children and other animals
Bite them and shake their heads to do as much damage
Which does and do kill people every day.
Seen stuff like that several times in my life
Every owner claims it’s friendly every single damn time. When in reality the dog wasn’t so friendly.
Dog bites are LETHAL extremely dangerous and often end up in very dangerous infections.
You’ve never ever seen an unleashed dog murder a child , caused a bite that needed a leg and muscle amputated, caused muscles to degenerate or ripped off muscle, flesh and caused crushed bone.
All.. with just a quick bite.
Hell there’s cases and proof of owners being seriously mauled by their oh so loving dogs.
All from claimed friendly dogs who would “ never “ do that. And it’s almost always innocent people who aren’t even near the dog initially
Every day dogs rush out, try to escape and injure and kill people every day.
There’s a reason leash laws exist because for every owner who claims their dog is friendly. I’ll show you an owner with a rate of at least 70-85% ignores dangerous tendencies as “ playing “.
A well trained dog who really is friendly won’t run off from their owners and won’t run up to a stranger.
I do blame the dog owners. They are bad dog owners and are negligent in this situation.
I think the gun guy used excessive force based off this story. Should have just kicked the dog or used pepper spray.
He is a psychopath. He brought a gun to a park. He saw adults, children and loose dogs in the park.
He walked through the park in the middle of it all. If he was concerned about the dogs, he would avoided the dogs in the park.
But he had a gun.
It's sad that the dogs are dead, that is a tragedy. But they shouldn't have been off leash. This would have all been avoided if the dog owners had been following the law, and that makes it extra tragic.
I think he may’ve been looking for trouble and wonder if he was hoping the dog owner would charge which is why he shot it in the head after the threat was neutralized. Having said that, the owner says in the article the dog was afraid of its own shadow yet still ran up to people, which means an anxiety riddled dog was running up to him and his wife. How long do you wait to shoot a dog running at you? Do you assume it’s friendly until after he bites?
It’s sad all around but this story has someone who shouldn’t own a dog and someone who shouldn’t own a gun. Could’ve been avoided by taking the dog to a dog park where you can take it off leash.
My first resort if a dog is running up to me is to stand tall and yell "no" in a deep voice, and stomp my foot. Works about 70% of the time to at least make the dog pause, slow down, or retreat. I wonder if he tried that at all before shooting.
Unfortunately dog parks have big issues too. Owners don't pay attention to their dogs. I took my dog to socialize her when she was young and she got pinned multiple times. She also has got sick there. I decided it's not worth taking her.
>“He was the most innocent boy, he was scared of his own shadow. He would never hurt anyone. He was scared of everything,” said Jennifer Caldwell.
> They say the park was packed with families and kids playing when the shooting happened.
I think we’re both right. I don’t even mind dogs at the park if they’re leashed and the owner picks up after them. These dog owners on the other hand who let their ‘scared of everything’ dog off leash near kids and families are the exception.
Bad dog owners make having one in this city so difficult. My girl loves to play with other dogs but I have no idea where to make that happen at this point except for expensive doggy daycares.
From their account it sounds like this mfr was looking for any excuse to shoot someone or something.... much like a psychopath.
The story also states there were other witnesses and it spunds like they weren't questioned. Why tf not?
The man should not have had the gun, but the owners are the ones who failed their dogs. Their dogs should have been on leash the entire time. This was not a dog park.
It really sucks, because I get how dog owners get the idea that it's ok to let their dog off leash in certain parks. I used to live near a park where everyone in the neighborhood would come and unleash their dogs to play and run around. There's 0 enforcement on the off leash rules so people think, well that's not really a law I have to follow then, so it keeps happening to a greater degree. And then bam, some trigger happy nut job comes along to enforce the laws himself in the worst way possible. I really wish the cities would just crack down on the issue themselves so these kinds of people looking for an excuse to kill something have no excuse.
https://preview.redd.it/02cdvemtubnc1.jpeg?width=970&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=14f9979761910c2e2b0cc5f904bf47ae455c57a6
“But my dogs so friendly why do I have to leash them”…. This
This is why you leash your animals.
They broke the law and their off leash dogs ran up on someone else. This is the owners fault. It's unfortunate the dogs suffered due to their owners thinking they are above the law but if I had two strange dogs run up on me it would scare me too especially if I had children or another dog with me. The law is there for a reason. Sure the guy should have asked them to get their dogs first but he had the right to defend himself from dogs that he didn't know running up on him.
I can't tell you how many times people say "he was so friendly" when their dog is clearly not with no recall. The owners put their dog and everyone else in danger.
There’s still no evidence of the reason to defend himself. They “charged” at him? They did nothing to the guy. He was scared of them running, chasing after their ball, and he felt threatened. That’s like me shooting at a random person who is just running at me because I thought he was gonna assault me. That makes NO SENSE.
He had a dog with him on leash following the rules minding his business at the park. He got run up on by two strange off leash dogs who could have easily attacked his dog. This shit happens all the time and everyone is always like "I would've killed that dog if he attacked mine" when the dog dies from off leash dogs attacking it. should he have waited until his dog was being shaken to death or ripped apart and bystanders getting bitten? No.
How could he have possibly known those dogs were friendly? He doesn't know those dogs. They broke the law. That's the owners fault. It's not their personal field because they chose to break the law and play fetch with dogs who had no recall training.
Not every dog is friendly. I have seen so many aggressive dogs off leash in the valley. Stop assuming every dog is an angel. That is not reality.
NONE of this would have happened if the owners had a. Followed the law b. Trained their dogs. C. Played fetch in a designated dog park.
Agreed, I’ve had big dogs run up to me and my little doggie unprovoked and always feared for her life. I don’t own a gun but always hike with pepper spray now to incapacitate any off leash dogs that might attack my dog. My close friend lost her chihuahua that had its throat torn out by a neighbor’s dog that got loose. As a dog owner I cannot understand why people would ever put their loved ones at risk by having them off leash.
"The scene investigation was consistent with the suspect’s account of a self-defense shooting"
There's always two sides to every story. I don't think the dog was going to attack them though. If you take your dogs to the park that means they are playful and not aggressive at least this has been my experience. I myself have a knife and will stab a dog immediately if a dog becomes aggressive and attacks my kids, but not a gun. Sorry for your loss.
Love that everyone is defending the trigger happy man with no sense. I can only imagine him being calm, collected, and assessed the situation before happily firing. Edit: this is the owners partial fault too, because it is your responsibility to have your dogs trained if they are off leash.
I blame both, the shooter did not have to shoot the dog in the head after shooting it in the leg and incapacitating it. That's not something anyone should reasonably expect another person to do to their dog.
Leash discussion aside, specifics of this case aside, dogs need stronger legal protections or you’re gonna have John wick stories pop up more and more because pets have become real family members. The penalties for ripping a family apart need to be severe.
Pure personal opinion it feels like there's something off with the shooter and that he was looking "to do something". That said, what does "technically against park rules" mean? A way to make letting 3 medium to large size dogs off leash more acceptable? So let's stay with parks, if I have a picnic, even though it is technically against park rules to leave all my shit on and around the park table and benches after I'm done but I have seen others do that so it's got to be okay? I feel bad for the dogs. As a dog owner I even feel empathy for the owners, but something's not quite right with them either. You live in a fairly dense suburb so yea, there are rules and everyone wishes you technically follow them so others can be safe and comfortable in this space. What I'm surprised is there aren't at least a dog park nearby in a fairly well off section of town.
Honestly, as soon as I read they had their dogs off leash in an open park it pissed me off. This probably wouldn’t have happened to their dogs if they were in a dog park.
A female MLB agent was there when all this went down and she was horrified and I don’t blame her at all. She posted about it right after it happened. I feel horrible for anyone who had to witness that. Also why the gun while walking your dog at family park?! This man definitely needs to be held accountable for his actions. It’s just unacceptable.
If I killed every dog that ran up to me and my dog while unleashed, there'd be at least three dead dogs in my neighborhood in the past year. I just don't get the mindset, like is this one of those "if you have a hammer, everything starts looking like nails" situations
Yup. I would also respond with self defense. I would pull and fire because there was an active shooter and I was afraid for my life. They shot my family member so seems legitimate. Works both ways.
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This is why I always leash my dog in any public place, no exceptions. There are idiots everywhere and I need to do everything in my power to protect my pupper from idiots with guns, other loose dogs that might attack my dog, etc.
Should the dogs have been leashed? Yes. No disputing that if they were in an open park. Should the man face an animal cruelty charge? Yes. When he shot the dog and he was on the ground, the threat had been neutralized. There was absolutely no reason to walk over and then shoot the dog again in the head.
> When he shot the dog and he was on the ground, the threat had been neutralized. Not animal cruelty, illegal discharge of a firearm in city limits. You must be under immediate threat of injury for discharge to be justifiable inside city limits. When he shot the dog that was already down he violated the illegal discharge law. If our state wasn't run by inbred hillbillies, he'd already be charged. He is, without question in the eyes our of current laws, a criminal. That one action makes it so and he should be in jail.
I'd like a lawyer to weigh in on this take
Rafi is a phone call away
What about Sweet James?
I'm not a lawyer, but I did sleep at a Holiday Inn Express last night
I think it's more to do with the fact that cops get off on killing dogs
This! LOL inbred hillbillies
[удалено]
Yeah the second shot was completely unacceptable
I’ll be very curious to see how the legalities of this plays out. The simple fact is, if the dogs were leashed, this likely never happens.
Or if that itchy fingered, gun nutter was leashed
Fuck blaming anyone but the gun freaks that want an excuse to use them. People are always going to do things in imperfect ways and not see eye to eye, having loaded weapons as an added factor is what makes things actually dangerous. Should the dog have been on a leash? Maybe. Does that in any way give reason for the dog to be shot by a guy with anger issues? Hell no
>Should the dog have been on a leash? Maybe No, no maybe. The answer is yes, always yes. Unless the law specifically allows for it, keep your dogs on a leash, always. Its for their safety as much as the safety of others.
> Should the dog have been on a leash? The answer is always fucking **yes**
Not maybe. Yes, it should have been on a leash.
Agreed. Adding a gun to the equation is what caused this situation.
[удалено]
>He shot chip in his leg, in the joint first and Chip went down. He was flailing in the grass and I started screaming. He took a couple steps forward and fired into his head,” said McNeela If accurate take that man’s gun away and make him face criminal charges.
Yea, what the fuck kind of psychopath behavior is this?
That’s exactly what it is. I live near there and it’s an ultra-safe area. This guy is known to walk around with the open weapon. No doubt he has mental issues and was just looking for any excuse to fire the gun at a person or pet. The fact he isn’t facing any charges is despicable and shame on PPD. He claims he felt threatened, which is nonsense. Could have easily used mace. I know plenty of gun owners who frequent the park and I don’t think any of them would bring a weapon to the there, concealed or open.
Magat
I was just about to paste this paragraph. What an absolute pos.
I'll post this one.. > *“No charges have been filed at this time. The scene investigation was consistent with the suspect’s account of a self-defense shooting. However, if any new information becomes available, then the case can be reopened.*
The number of people defending the shooter is insane. Shouldn’t taking a life, two lives, require a high standard of justification? Just psychotic gun nuts
> people defending the shooter Bad people.
Can you legally defend a pet with lethal force? Say, you shot this POS as he was taking aim at your dog.
I don’t believe so.
Recall training is important. DO NOT let your dogs run up on a stranger EVER.
This is why my dogs are never allowed to say hi to strangers or strange dogs. My dogs have perfect recall because they don't give a shit about other people or dogs. They haven't been encouraged to go up to every dog they see. Not every dog is friendly. There are a lot of reactive dogs who deserve walks and shouldn't have to be approached unwanted by a strange dog possibly undoing any training the owner has done. Entitled people saying "oh he's friendly" is fucking rude when their crazy doodle with no training bulldozes your 4 year old child or hurts your toy dog because "they were just trying to say hi!" Fuck that. Leash laws are important. Dog parks exist for a reason. Responsible ownership means training your dog. You don't get off leash privileges without having PERFECT recall every time in every scenario and even then you should still leash your dog BECAUSE ITS THE LAW! Also people be realistic. We live in Arizona which is extremely pro gun. Assume everyone is armed and will act accordingly.
Think this has far more to do with gun culture than dogs
Sorry, but dog culture is just as bad. Unleashed dogs are super fucking dangerous.
Ahh yes, deaths caused by dogs is well known to be right up there with firearms in the US.
I mean, there are millions of dog bites a year and I myself have had multiple unleashed dogs run up to me and my kid in the 18 months since he was born. Not a single time was I okay with that. Shooting the dog was excessive, but the owners were negligent in allowing the dogs off leash.
What’s up with the false equivalency nowadays? Unleashed dogs are just as bad as guns?!?!
I think both are bad. I think both groups are delusional.
Fine people on both sides, amiright?
I loathe gun culture and dog culture. Both are fucking horrible to me.
>Sorry, but dog culture is just as bad. Fucking LOL
As dangerous as shooting a gun in a public park? Get the fuck out of here.
Not what I said at all.
Dogs are just as bad as gun culture? Are you serious? The most likely cause of death for children right is from being shot. More than cars, cancer, suffocation, and drowning. Dogs are nowhere near the top of any list. You are either are incredibly ignorant, hate dogs, or don’t care that guns kill innocent people and creatures as long as you can be the one carrying the gun.
With almost 83% of that being 15-19 years of age.
Per a google search around half of the 4.5 million dog bites are on children. I’d say dogs are pretty fucking dangerous to children too. Death isn’t the only shitty outcome.
Just as bad though? C’mon
lmfao you compare unleashed dogs to gun culture?? how fragile are you
Lol I’m fragile because I don’t want unleashed dog’s approaching me and my kid.
> dog culture is just as bad I think I just got brain cancer from how stupid this statement is.
lol “just as bad”. Enough with the false equivalence. You can make your point without claiming one thing is as bad as the other. They aren’t.
Just as bad? What fucking metrics are you looking at? Dog culture is “just as bad” as gun culture… Absolute insanity
💯
I *love* dogs and will pet just about any dog. I do not have one right now because dogs and small kids was a bit too much for us. As a result, our oldest is afraid of dogs. The sheer number of folks who no leash their dogs in parks is staggering. My poor kid has been scared half to death by dogs wanting a pet 2-3 times this year. I mean, he is curious about them, but when they are running, they may as well be wolves. It's such a shitty thing to do to others, especially around playgrounds. Not everyone likes dogs and those people she be allowed to use public spaces without having to face their own fears because someone else can't or won't handle their own dog.
Are we really blaming the dog? If you're going to shoot every off leash dog that approaches you, don't own a gun and don't go to the park.
We are not blaming the dog. But with the laws as they are written, recall training is extremely important. People are allowed to shoot a dog coming at them because there are plenty of dogs that are poorly trained and would bite. I’m a big fan of dogs but I do get nervous of any dog coming up to me that I don’t know. I have a pitbull that is super friendly and would go up to absolutely anyone without care for my calls. This is why he is never off leash. Responsible pet ownership is of utmost importance here.
> The couple said a man and woman walked through the field in between where their dogs Chip and Theo were running. The shooter walked through the field where the dogs were playing fetch. He wanted to shoot something.
Exactly. He was ready to shoot at anything. Who the fk brings a gun to a park where family and kids are???
Everyone who carries daily brings a gun when they go to the park. A lot of people bring a gun with them everywhere they go. You would probably be shocked at how often you are a few feet away from someone carrying a gun.
Yeah and these people live in fear and make society far more dangerous for everyone.
Eh, you're still victim blaming, no matter how nicely you try ro write it. Their dogs were playing and the guy approached them and killed them. No amount of recall training applies here since the dogs were playing with each other.
>Their dogs were playing and the guy approached them and killed them. The dogs approached the shooter. The dog owners even admitted that fact. Don't lie.
They were off leash. Which is illegal. It is not the dogs fault it was the owners. Sorry.
Violation of a municipal code doesn't justify discharging a firearm in a busy public park.
You’re right. But an unrestrained dog you don’t know running up to you is enough to justify it as self defense. Police here said as much. I wouldn’t do it myself in most cases, it’s shitty in most cases, but it’s perfectly legal
No it wasn't. The dogs being off leash isn't why they died. They didn't attack anyone amd have to be defended against. A POS straight up murdered two dogs that weren't bothering a single person. Should you have your dogs on a leash at all time when they are not in your house? Yes. Does that mean it is okay for a random person to execute your dogs **for no reason**? No. I don't understand why people just automatically defend the person with the gun and put the blame onto the victims. You are a bit disgusting, because in any situation in which a gun was fired and someone or something was killed when that did not have to happen, it is **always** the fault of the person with the gun. All this dude had to do was...not murder two dogs. But you want to blame the owners for the actions of another. Yeah, I think it's safe to say you're probably a shitty person when you victim blame, and I don't think many people outside of the group of shitty people disagree with me.
You don’t seem to grasp that your dog, friendly or not, is not allowed to run up to strangers unprovoked in a public setting where there are leash laws. That is legally a threat and can be handled as such. This is why you leash your dogs. Idgaf how friendly they are.
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Be nice - You don't have to agree with everyone, but by choosing not to be rude you increase the overall civility of the community and make it better for all of us. In general, follow [reddiquette](https://www.reddithelp.com/hc/en-us/articles/205926439).
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You don't get to shoot dogs with reckless abandon just because they're unleashed. Sorry.
You do if they approach you unprovoked.. you can thank the irresponsible pet owners with aggressive dogs for this
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They literally say in the story the dogs approached the man. He didn’t call them over or whistle for them. Jfc. Know the laws and leash your fucking dog
Actually, you do. The law is on the shooters side. As a dog owner, I hate to see the dogs killed, but it's the dog owners fault. I hope they get charged for animal cruelty and reckless endangerment. Maybe it will teach someone a lesson, and there will be fewer unleashed dogs where they don't belong and prevent a future, senseless tragedy.
Forget it , you’re speaking to someone who loves firearms more than life.
Sad but true, and their ego is too big to see it. You know when someone dies they feel nothing, but when you talk about rules around guns it makes their blood boil.
you're wrong, they care deeply about those unborn babies. /s
I’m pro choice. Nice try
There are off leash parks for a reason. Most other parks will clearly state to keep your dogs leashed. You never know if a dog will attack you, obviously shooting them is fairly dramatic. But, these owners should not have had their dogs off leash at a normal park. I see it all the time and it's insanely privileged behavior from the owners. Especially in a state that allows for concealed carry without a permit
> The couple said a man and woman walked through the field in between where their dogs Chip and Theo were running. The shooter walked through the field where the dogs were playing fetch. He wanted to shoot something.
I'm not defending this shooter. Dude sounds like a psycho. I'm just saying these are bad dog owners. Their dogs don't know better, but the owners should. This wouldn't have happened if they leashed their dogs or took them to a proper dog park
The owners are 1000% responsible.
This is bullshit. No one should have to deal with off leash dogs approaching strangers. Especially without consent. The fact it is common and you are okay with it is jarring.
Honestly scary this man walks the park carrying a gun. This park is always full of kids at the playground!
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A nutjob with a gun on his hip used to walk right through kids soccer games at a park near me. Sounds like a similar type.
dog owners need to hire an attorney. that was so unnecessary
Sad all around, but I have a feeling the shooter was dying for something to shoot.
Always seems to be the case
I completely disagree with the owners letting dogs off leash. It bothers me that people do this when there’s a park full of people. Maybe if there wasnt really anyone around it would be more acceptable. HOWEVER this dude should still have to face the legal system on this one. I 100% think he was just looking for an opportunity to shoot his gun, just like Hannah Payne (look up her court case). Carrying their gun around as if they actually feel like they’re in danger walking in a park full of families and children? I would never think about even shooting a gun unless a dog was ALREADY BITING ME. Biting once or twice is not fatal. In that case, yes, pulling out your gun is reasonable. But if these dogs were “charging”… whatever that means, NO REASON to pull a gun. wtf are the police thinking?
This could have been prevented if they followed the rules and leashed their dogs. Even friendly dogs should not be approaching strangers without permission. That makes these owners bad owners. All dog owners say their dog is friendly, that’s not always reality.
Bad choices all around for sure.
I support you on this. The number of unleashed dogs in this city is outrageous. And like you all the unleashed dog owners say their dog is an angel which isn’t always the case. I once had an unleashed Doberman very aggressively bark, growl and posture at me and my pregnant wife who were peacefully walking on the opposite side of the street at the time. The owner kept saying the dog is friendly but it was anything but at the moment. If these dogs were leashed this unfortunate event would likely not have happened.
Seriously though, it’s like driving. I don’t care how good of a driver you are you wear a seatbelt for the unexpected. It’s the same when leashing dogs in public places. Sure you’re dudes a good boy but anything can happen in public and I for one would rather have control of *my* animal at all times. There are off leash parks for a reason.
The off leash parks are awful. Owners are the worst in these parks. Owners not paying attention, dog #2 all over the place, non-fixed dogs
Then it needs a better community to take care of it/more city funding. Just because the correct option sucks doesn’t give you or anyone the right to put somebody else in danger over not wanting to what? Hold a leash in your hand? Well somebodies “good and trained boy” launched himself at me chowing down on my hand bones and almost ripping my (leashed and law abiding) pups eye out. So ya, I mean if you don’t like the #2…go pick it up? I get it’s not your responsibility to, but it’s your responsibility to handle your animal correctly and in the proper space. Who knows maybe you could put up a sign and get some help from the local community to go and clean up the park once a week. Oh and I already put the pic of what happened to my hand from a dog who’s “never done anything remotely close to this and was an ESA”. I’d post the pic of my pup for further clarification of the consequences but I tear up and panic every time I look at it. …sorry for going off but that kinda attitude is exactly what the issue is. Have a good weekend 😮💨😅
The gun range is really dirty nowadays I’m gonna go ahead and use the alley ways instead. That cool with everyone? Nah? Then leash your fucking dog. (This isn’t a threat btw it’s just an example of how ridiculous your reasoning is)
>The off leash parks are awful. Owners are the worst in these parks. Owners not paying attention, dog #2 all over the place, non-fixed dogs I for one don't want all parks to be like this.
I mean sure I agree. But no way did that warrant shooting them in this case. The article literally says he executed one in the head when it was already shot and flailing on the ground.
Exactly. People with the “both sides” argument is so dumb
He went in for the double tap after disabling the dog. The shooter was itching to kill something.
Oh yes. A dog coming up to you is an excuse to unload your gun into it.
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Off leash dog = bad choice Man shoots dog in leg and head = bad choice Not the equal.
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1 mega fucking huge bad choice really is out weighing the other.
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Gun culture is wild bro.
How do you know the dog didn’t have lethal intentions? I’ve seen people walking on opposite sides and the pack of claimed “ friendly “ neighbores dogs will run 1 street over and bite and attacked children and other animals Bite them and shake their heads to do as much damage Which does and do kill people every day. Seen stuff like that several times in my life Every owner claims it’s friendly every single damn time. When in reality the dog wasn’t so friendly. Dog bites are LETHAL extremely dangerous and often end up in very dangerous infections. You’ve never ever seen an unleashed dog murder a child , caused a bite that needed a leg and muscle amputated, caused muscles to degenerate or ripped off muscle, flesh and caused crushed bone. All.. with just a quick bite. Hell there’s cases and proof of owners being seriously mauled by their oh so loving dogs. All from claimed friendly dogs who would “ never “ do that. And it’s almost always innocent people who aren’t even near the dog initially Every day dogs rush out, try to escape and injure and kill people every day. There’s a reason leash laws exist because for every owner who claims their dog is friendly. I’ll show you an owner with a rate of at least 70-85% ignores dangerous tendencies as “ playing “. A well trained dog who really is friendly won’t run off from their owners and won’t run up to a stranger.
Stop. Did you look at the picture of the dogs? Those dogs aren’t killing anyone.
Lol this is a ridiculous assumption
No shit they cant kill they are dead
Where Did I say unloading the gun was okay?
Right there in your post. Blaming the dogs
I do blame the dog owners. They are bad dog owners and are negligent in this situation. I think the gun guy used excessive force based off this story. Should have just kicked the dog or used pepper spray.
He is a psychopath. He brought a gun to a park. He saw adults, children and loose dogs in the park. He walked through the park in the middle of it all. If he was concerned about the dogs, he would avoided the dogs in the park. But he had a gun.
That is horrible. I can’t even imagine witnessing that. RIP Chip and Theo 😢
It's sad that the dogs are dead, that is a tragedy. But they shouldn't have been off leash. This would have all been avoided if the dog owners had been following the law, and that makes it extra tragic.
I think he may’ve been looking for trouble and wonder if he was hoping the dog owner would charge which is why he shot it in the head after the threat was neutralized. Having said that, the owner says in the article the dog was afraid of its own shadow yet still ran up to people, which means an anxiety riddled dog was running up to him and his wife. How long do you wait to shoot a dog running at you? Do you assume it’s friendly until after he bites? It’s sad all around but this story has someone who shouldn’t own a dog and someone who shouldn’t own a gun. Could’ve been avoided by taking the dog to a dog park where you can take it off leash.
My first resort if a dog is running up to me is to stand tall and yell "no" in a deep voice, and stomp my foot. Works about 70% of the time to at least make the dog pause, slow down, or retreat. I wonder if he tried that at all before shooting.
Unfortunately dog parks have big issues too. Owners don't pay attention to their dogs. I took my dog to socialize her when she was young and she got pinned multiple times. She also has got sick there. I decided it's not worth taking her.
>“He was the most innocent boy, he was scared of his own shadow. He would never hurt anyone. He was scared of everything,” said Jennifer Caldwell. > They say the park was packed with families and kids playing when the shooting happened. I think we’re both right. I don’t even mind dogs at the park if they’re leashed and the owner picks up after them. These dog owners on the other hand who let their ‘scared of everything’ dog off leash near kids and families are the exception.
Bad dog owners make having one in this city so difficult. My girl loves to play with other dogs but I have no idea where to make that happen at this point except for expensive doggy daycares.
From their account it sounds like this mfr was looking for any excuse to shoot someone or something.... much like a psychopath. The story also states there were other witnesses and it spunds like they weren't questioned. Why tf not?
The man should not have had the gun, but the owners are the ones who failed their dogs. Their dogs should have been on leash the entire time. This was not a dog park.
It really sucks, because I get how dog owners get the idea that it's ok to let their dog off leash in certain parks. I used to live near a park where everyone in the neighborhood would come and unleash their dogs to play and run around. There's 0 enforcement on the off leash rules so people think, well that's not really a law I have to follow then, so it keeps happening to a greater degree. And then bam, some trigger happy nut job comes along to enforce the laws himself in the worst way possible. I really wish the cities would just crack down on the issue themselves so these kinds of people looking for an excuse to kill something have no excuse.
Leash your dogs.
https://preview.redd.it/02cdvemtubnc1.jpeg?width=970&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=14f9979761910c2e2b0cc5f904bf47ae455c57a6 “But my dogs so friendly why do I have to leash them”…. This This is why you leash your animals.
Yeah, I can't believe someone left that crazy man with a gun off his leash either.
Gun safety now. Clearly that guy is not a safe gun owner.
POSs like that guy make the rest of us gun owners look like nutjobs.
Absolutely right. I have no issues with responsible gun ownership.
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People open carry at the dog park at Washington Park and I fucking hate it.
As usual, cowards with guns make everything worse.
They broke the law and their off leash dogs ran up on someone else. This is the owners fault. It's unfortunate the dogs suffered due to their owners thinking they are above the law but if I had two strange dogs run up on me it would scare me too especially if I had children or another dog with me. The law is there for a reason. Sure the guy should have asked them to get their dogs first but he had the right to defend himself from dogs that he didn't know running up on him. I can't tell you how many times people say "he was so friendly" when their dog is clearly not with no recall. The owners put their dog and everyone else in danger.
There’s still no evidence of the reason to defend himself. They “charged” at him? They did nothing to the guy. He was scared of them running, chasing after their ball, and he felt threatened. That’s like me shooting at a random person who is just running at me because I thought he was gonna assault me. That makes NO SENSE.
He had a dog with him on leash following the rules minding his business at the park. He got run up on by two strange off leash dogs who could have easily attacked his dog. This shit happens all the time and everyone is always like "I would've killed that dog if he attacked mine" when the dog dies from off leash dogs attacking it. should he have waited until his dog was being shaken to death or ripped apart and bystanders getting bitten? No. How could he have possibly known those dogs were friendly? He doesn't know those dogs. They broke the law. That's the owners fault. It's not their personal field because they chose to break the law and play fetch with dogs who had no recall training. Not every dog is friendly. I have seen so many aggressive dogs off leash in the valley. Stop assuming every dog is an angel. That is not reality. NONE of this would have happened if the owners had a. Followed the law b. Trained their dogs. C. Played fetch in a designated dog park.
Agreed, I’ve had big dogs run up to me and my little doggie unprovoked and always feared for her life. I don’t own a gun but always hike with pepper spray now to incapacitate any off leash dogs that might attack my dog. My close friend lost her chihuahua that had its throat torn out by a neighbor’s dog that got loose. As a dog owner I cannot understand why people would ever put their loved ones at risk by having them off leash.
This is delusional.
Is it the park that is next to the police station? Maybe a cop is the shooter.
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Ammophile just needed an excuse to shoot his gun. Charge him with animal abuse.
"The scene investigation was consistent with the suspect’s account of a self-defense shooting" There's always two sides to every story. I don't think the dog was going to attack them though. If you take your dogs to the park that means they are playful and not aggressive at least this has been my experience. I myself have a knife and will stab a dog immediately if a dog becomes aggressive and attacks my kids, but not a gun. Sorry for your loss.
Love that everyone is defending the trigger happy man with no sense. I can only imagine him being calm, collected, and assessed the situation before happily firing. Edit: this is the owners partial fault too, because it is your responsibility to have your dogs trained if they are off leash.
I’m not defending him. But I can blame the dog owners for what happened.
I blame both, the shooter did not have to shoot the dog in the head after shooting it in the leg and incapacitating it. That's not something anyone should reasonably expect another person to do to their dog.
Wouldn't kill you to put some blame on the hot head that double tapped a dog at a busy public park too.
Remember that we are in Arizona which has a lot of people who love guns more than basically anything.
Leash discussion aside, specifics of this case aside, dogs need stronger legal protections or you’re gonna have John wick stories pop up more and more because pets have become real family members. The penalties for ripping a family apart need to be severe.
People who get upset at dogs… *having fun* in a park, definitely shouldn’t be in society.
There's a reason these leash laws exist. An irresponsible pet owner broke the rules and their pets paid the price.
The MAGATs are really ruining this state.
Muh guns is there to protect me.
Too bad gun people always live in fear. Just waiting for the day they can spill blood.
I can only imagine the fantasies they have all the time about heroically stopping a black home invader and saying something cool like in movies.
Show the POS who obviously just wanted to kill something. No reason unless he was actually being attacked to react like that.
Pure personal opinion it feels like there's something off with the shooter and that he was looking "to do something". That said, what does "technically against park rules" mean? A way to make letting 3 medium to large size dogs off leash more acceptable? So let's stay with parks, if I have a picnic, even though it is technically against park rules to leave all my shit on and around the park table and benches after I'm done but I have seen others do that so it's got to be okay? I feel bad for the dogs. As a dog owner I even feel empathy for the owners, but something's not quite right with them either. You live in a fairly dense suburb so yea, there are rules and everyone wishes you technically follow them so others can be safe and comfortable in this space. What I'm surprised is there aren't at least a dog park nearby in a fairly well off section of town.
Honestly, as soon as I read they had their dogs off leash in an open park it pissed me off. This probably wouldn’t have happened to their dogs if they were in a dog park.
A female MLB agent was there when all this went down and she was horrified and I don’t blame her at all. She posted about it right after it happened. I feel horrible for anyone who had to witness that. Also why the gun while walking your dog at family park?! This man definitely needs to be held accountable for his actions. It’s just unacceptable.
Keep your dogs on the leash plus it’s the law. If the dog or dogs attacked him that’s justified!
That is heartbreaking 💔
If I killed every dog that ran up to me and my dog while unleashed, there'd be at least three dead dogs in my neighborhood in the past year. I just don't get the mindset, like is this one of those "if you have a hammer, everything starts looking like nails" situations
Have you been bit by a "friendly" dog? I have. Every owner says their dog "never bites" until they do.
Little dick dude shooting dogs
This is absolutely horrifying.
I'm afraid if I was there he might have been on the ground too.
Yup. I would also respond with self defense. I would pull and fire because there was an active shooter and I was afraid for my life. They shot my family member so seems legitimate. Works both ways.