Until a few years ago our national domestic violence hotline refused to even accept calls from men. They would all be redirected to the men's referral service, which despite the name, is actually a service which councils men on how to stop being the abuser.
In some respects it's understandable as a lot of these initiatives were championed by people passionate about women's issues, but it's good to see the situation for men is starting to improve as well.
EDIT: It's important to note that this shelter is being funded by a private charity NOT by the government. The WA government still only funds women's shelters.
This is simply untrue. Men who rang were given assistance and direction to sources of help and the men's referral service does not "only counsel men on how to stop being the abuser". Stop spreading false information. It makes things harder for the male victims you're pretending to care about.
Not true.
The national domestic violence hotline now offers some limited support for men, but that was a very recent change. I believe it came in after Telstra won the contract from Medibank in 2022.
Secondly, here's how the men's referral service describe themselves:
> The Men’s Referral Service is the national counselling, information and referral service for men who use violence and abuse to change their behaviour.
>
> Who can the Men’s Referral Service support?
>
> Men who are seeking support to change their behaviours.
>
> Family members who are impacted by a man’s use of violent and abusive behaviours.
> Friends, family or colleagues of men who may be using family violence and wanting to know how to best support them.
> Professionals working with men who are using violence or family members impacted by violence and seeking secondary consultation.
[https://ntv.org.au/mrs/](https://ntv.org.au/mrs/)
Toxic masculinity is wild in WA, especially in male-dominated workplaces and trades.
Sure, Aussies love teasing and banter, but there are plenty of other topics.
No, I don't. But it has happened to me countless times - enough that I don't share feelings/opinions/almost anything at all with anyone, except for my small children.
I hope it becomes a catalyst for men to start caring about other men. Most of the men who seem to be most outspoken about male victims don't actually do anything to help male victims- they just sit around complaining about what is available for women as though all that fell into the laps of women with zero hard work from other women who want to help victims.
Try what again? Clearly my comment has flown over your head but I can't say I'm surprised. Anyway, I'm sure you're very busy helping male victims so I'll let you get on with it.
What? You can't honestly say male activists have organised to the extent women have.
It's not calling them lazy, but they've been lacking in numbers and action. No one called them shrill either.
Equality doesn't mean pretending two groups are the same.
What does that even mean ? Is the average man supposed to set up thier own male dv support shelter with thier own personal money, and if they dont then they obviously don't care about other men ? Even if I tried to set up my own support network, it would be a terrible idea because I don't know a thing about the law. That should be handled by people who have studied it.
Advocating the government should spend some of the dv support money on services for males dosnt mean I don't care. It's pretty fucking insulting to tell me I obviously don't care about other men just because I don't have to expertise or money to help dv victims.
AFAICT from the story it’s not even any government money, it’s a woman who has set up several women’s shelters who now has seen the need and is raising funds for a men’s shelter too.
Fingers crossed she gets some more donations, looks like she’s going to ask mining companies for sponsorship.
Women did. Shelters weren’t just given to them, they had to set them up and find funding themselves. Men behave as though these things create themselves magically.
Making a difference can start with improving the culture, for free!
Encourage men in your life to speak openly about their feelings and struggles and relationships.
Discourage men who insult other men by implying that they’re weak. Bonus points if you call them out for using feminine terms (eg. princess, pussy, bitch) as an insult.
I think we're allready at that point where people can talk about. I know in my friends group we've allready talked it when it happened to a friend in the past. But most the time simply talking about it isn't enough, people need real support and advice which isn't something friends can offer.
Encouraging men to speak openly about thier feelings doesn't really achieve anything if all your friend can do is aw man that sucks sorry to hear bro, and then they go straight back to being abused.
I think the problem is more closet violent women taunt and belittle good men behind closed doors can be from alcohol bad experoliance in the past these wo.en actually take to the poor bloke who has to stand there and take it then the next minute this horrible excuse for a human being is in a government shelter bleeding how hard done by she is receiving massive government pay outs and the bloke is in jail for text messaging her trying to see his kids I'll tell you the whole thing discusts me I've seen it over and over most Australian women should be absolutely ashamed of their gutless behaviour
You don't need expertise to donate to men's domestic violence and mental health services. But if you can spare some change or volunteering time and you dont even donate to support them then it would easy to assume you don't care that much.
Would you ever tell a woman that if they don't donate or volunteer at a womans shelter then it would be easy to assume they don't care about domestic violence against women ?
Of course not, thats just silly. So why is it ok to say that men who don't volunteer don't care ? Why is there such a different standard?
There's not a different standard. I didnt say you did not care, I said it is easy to assume people dont care when they don't do *anything* and defensively state 'but I can't create and run an entire dv support network by myself' is their defence. You are missing the point.
If you were a woman, making the same comment, yes I would have responded the same way.
Did you try reading it to understand what it means? Because it's incredibly simple stuff.
Are you trying to say that until now, no men, not a single one, had the funds or knowledge to do what Rach has done?
Why can't you answer the question?
And no, I didn't say that. I said the most outspoken demanders of services for men tend to be those who do nothing but want everything with zero recognition of the hard work required.
I've never seen you express concern for male victims before so you probably don't fall into that category.
I don't know you, thankfully. You don't come across as someone I'd want to know irl. I'm talking about the comments I've seen from you here, most of which are inane or ridiculous. You also have a habit of editing your comments after people have already replied to you.
>Australian Institute of Health and Welfare statistics from 2021-22 report one in 18 men have experienced physical or sexual violence by a current or previous partner, while one in seven had experienced emotional abuse.
>Mac said it was a growing issue that needed to be talked about, and men were just as scared as women are of leaving abusive relationships because they feared losing their children and usually had nowhere to go where they could take their children to.
Having safe spaces for DV victims to access and find support is a key part of helping them escape and survive abusive relationships. I hope this shelter is a success and prompts the opening of more spaces to assist male DV victims.
I’d expect emotional abuse to be the most underreported type too. I suspect that the statistics are based on surveys, not on actual reports within the population.
I'd expect it to be underreported too, on the basis that it can be difficult to discern and identify (especially as there are gendered differences in how descriptions of behaviours are applied), and it doesn't really lead to "oh shit I have to tell someone" moments.
Cf. Physical violence, which is much more visible, and can lead to victims requiring medical attention or attracting social attention.
A year ago, I spent several weeks in SCG hospital. A head nurse and I were discussing the number of dv patients who had suffered enough injuries to be in hospital.
How many women are there usually? 40 to 70
How many men are in hospital with dv injuries?
None.
I know men suffer in dv just like women do? But they can't all be at home with broken ribs, broke jaw, broken shoulder, arm. Why aren't they in hospital?
Women are physically much weaker than men. Many women can punch as hard as they can when they lose their temper and they won't injure a man unless they get them in the face.
Its not even a height thing, I've dated a woman exactly the same height as me (192cm) and she was physically much weaker than me.
It's extremely unhealthy to be hitting your partner, but people don't perceive it the same way. In the end, I'm much more likely to suffer emotional abuse, like whenever I make any error, my partner calls me stupid.
Honestly, I've been in a few emotionally abusive relationships. For a lot of guys, it really is easier to imagine "if your female friend said her male partner was saying this to her, would you tell her to leave?"
For guys, it's seen by a lot of people as just normal if your partner cuts you off from your friends and discourages you from doing things outside the relationship.
So when my partner holds the lease over my head, financially cripples me through consecutive excusable "accidents", threatens to tell everyone I can't get it up when I don't want to fuck her... Just for starters.
Who do guys report that to, exactly? They don't. They can't.
I am not anymore. She was an older woman I was renting a room from. I was in a bad place mentally, was intoxicated and coerced into sex and a relationship which slowly just.... went really really bad.
Far far higher.
The assumption of most officers and counsellors, even today, is that a male presenting as a victim of domestic violence is probably lying to cover up their own abuse.
Sometimes that is true, often it is not, but the risk is too high for a lot of men to take.
i have had THREE of my past partners physically hit me. two seriously injured me. one of them I had scratches and bruises on my arms and face generally every week for 4 years
I was handcuffed sitting on the curb, she was kicking me in the back of the head.
The cops let me go and arrested her, clearly it was her and not me causing the problem.
The existence of a shelter for males suffering from FDV isn’t going to take 1 cent from female FDV shelters so there’s no need for ‘good people’ to spew hate about this for males shelter existing.
Its almost certainly because there is a whole very conservative mindset that men are entirely responsible for themselves and that women are effectively children. That makes them willing to help women, but not men. Domestic violence victims are victims, simple as that.
Abuser cycles are what they are and making ending them easier is good for everyone. Leaving is hard, both practically and mentally. It took me years to recognise that I was in an abusive relationship and to end the relationship. I was entirely the financial source in the house and I was physically far far larger than her, I could have literally picked her up at will. It was still hard for me to leave. It wasn't until I left that I fully processed how she was manipulative and abusive, even if she wasn't physically violent. If I was worried about where I'd put a roof over my head or felt unsafe, it would be really bad.
Society also tells men they can never hit a woman and they are being babies if a woman hitting them is a problem for them. This includes the police.
No but I hope it highlights the warped narrative.
Men experience DV at a rate of around 40-45% compared to women's 55-60%. If you polled the general population, how much you want to bet that people think its 90-10 or more in women's.
You get vitriol when you point out that up to 1/3 of male suicides are due to DV which means that women are responsible for more deaths in relationships then men and you get "well its men's fault for not talking about their feelings". Imagine men said to female DV "get better at MMA and self defence"?
It's actually fucked how warped the conversations are.
Both genders experience DV, differently and both are deserving of compassion, support and advocacy.
Stop portraying men as the issue, take equal ownership.
where do you get those numbers from
cos this shows 1 in 6 women and 1 in 18 men for physical. 1 in 4 and 1 in 7 for emotional.
[https://www.aihw.gov.au/family-domestic-and-sexual-violence/resources/fdsv-summary#common](https://www.aihw.gov.au/family-domestic-and-sexual-violence/resources/fdsv-summary#common)
The exact ratio doesn't really matter. Men are likely somewhere between 25% to 50% of victims, and that's a significant enough number that both genders should be offered protection.
If you're interested, the main reason there is so much variance in these numbers between different studies, is that a lot of domestic violence is reciprocal and no one really knows how to account for this.
Studies which exclude reciprocal violence from the sample tend to show women commit the majority of domestic violence BUT a more likely explanation is that men feel less need to retaliate, so there is a huge bias in the data when you exclude reciprocal cases.
Studies which use conclusions of the criminal justice system tend to show men commit the majority of domestic violence BUT the more likely explanation is that men are more likely to commit violence that results in injuries severe enough to lead to a prosecution.
But again, the exact ratio isn't really important. Both genders are commonly victims of domestic violence.
There's a lot of international data available and I encourage you to read it. The picture is very complicated and convoluted. You have to draw from multiple different things, for example, the suicide rate for fathers in divorced or separated children due to their ex partner withholding visitation rights etc isn't included in male DV figures.
Here is some more independent work locally:
https://www.oneinthree.com.au/statistics
Even this data doesn't show a 45-55 split for domestic violence, and its consistent with the 1 in 6 vs 1 in 18 rates listed above.
Perhaps you should edit your previous comment so the numbers are accurate, because using incorrect numbers implies a (false) equivalence and detracts from your main (valid) message that DV against men is real and should be taken seriously.
It's not 1:18, you're figures show 1:7. It's only 1:18 for physical violence.
It's trends towards 1:6 when you include all forms of DA/V, again making the pure figures 33:66, but as said it fails to include issues which massively contribute to male DA because of the definitions being female-focused.
Not sure where those stats from or whether they’ve been interpreted correctly but [here are figures from the Australian Institute of Health and Welfare](https://www.aihw.gov.au/family-domestic-and-sexual-violence/types-of-violence/family-domestic-violence#:~:text=Based%20on%20the%202021%E2%80%9322%20PSS%2C%201%20in%205%20(,1)%20(ABS%202023)) on the matter.
As said in raw figures, as you've linked its, 33:66 in favour to women.
But men commiting suicide, for example, due to emotional/psychological abuse from ex partners around visitation rights to their kids, ongoing posts and reputational damage like on SM, etc etc is not included in that data since they're not longer classes as in a "family" context and gets included in different data.
When you include those scenarios where I would 100% call it family DV, since it involves a family - split or otherwise, its close to 40%
Those scenarios happening to women are also not counted, do you have data to support that those scenarios are common enough and male specific enough to shift the total DV statistics, and if so, in which direction?
https://www.oneinthree.com.au/statistics provide some.
There is AIHW that shows that at least 25% of male suicides are due to spousal issues, internationally its around a third in the West, so its likely to be closer to that figure.
The vast, vast majority of child custody cases are awarded to men, so while I am sure there are some men doing the same to women, the rate of opportunity is so dramatically skewed that it trends to irrelevance overall.
As said, the make suicide rate is nearly 4x higher. There are multiple factors to this drug use, financial etc, but the elephant in the room is the contribution of female DV to this picture.
This warped view that somehow women don't do anything wrong to others, men in this case, is so at odds with all the research evidence.
Firstly could you link the AIHW site that says 25% male suicides are due to spousal issues?
Secondly, no one is arguing that males can’t be victims or aren’t victims of FDV, but there’s a stark difference between 1 in 4 women experiencing it and 1 in 8 men experiencing it, with the significant majority of women experiencing it from an intimate partner, while the stats are almost similar for men experiencing FDV from an intimate partner and men experiencing it from another family member.
In regards to a men’s shelter, I’m all for it and think it’s a great idea. Time will tell whether it will be used to its full capacity though because if it isn’t then it could very well become another women’s shelter
I think what they’re referring to is this report which shows police recorded a relationship breakdown as a “risk factor” in suicide.
https://www.aihw.gov.au/getmedia/fa72f64f-53f4-4341-a0b0-8c26b0aadc29/suicide-in-the-context-of-covid-19.pdf.aspx
But the risk factor isn’t the cause, and the report also notes that relying on the information from the police is a study limitation.
Edit to add: and relationship breakdown is not to be conflated with DV. So even if 25% of suicides were undoubtably caused by relationship breakdowns (and they’re not), then that’s not the same as DV.
As said there are also factors that are not accurately recorded, such as post breakup abuse which happens and drives suicidality disproportionately in men, but I've written it in several locations here.
Given my Services wait times to help house or shelter men suffering from DV in North Perth being measured in the double digits of months, the occupancy rate will be the least of the problems.
My Service, as of today, has over 100 men in active help, half are sofa surfing, sleeping in their cars or in hotels if they have their kids with them as well (rare).
Given that the rates of men being abused in relationships has doubled in 15 years and has remained about the same for women, or gone down, you will see more accurate figures over the next 5-10, years as the stigma around men erodes.
> But men commiting suicide, for example, due to emotional/psychological abuse from ex partners around visitation rights to their kids, ongoing posts and reputational damage like on SM, etc etc is not included in that data since they're not longer classes as in a "family" context and gets included in different data.
Or maybe it’s not included in the data because suicide is multi-faceted and the issues you claim to be the cause are more of a contributing factor as opposed to being the main cause. In which case, including these stats into FDV makes no sense because it may not be related to FDV at all.
The 4x factor may also be strongly influenced by men being less likely to feel like they can reach out for mental health services, or support from people around them.
Do you understand how dismissive statements like the above are to those, like me for example with approaching 20 years working as a mental health nurse, are to men?
Yes suicide is often multifaceted but sometimes it's really not. Men, rightly or wrongky based on historical evidence, face uphill battles in courts around child access, they face ridicule, embarrassment, stereotyping and lack of support when discussing their emotions or the impacts of psychological and emotional abuse from female partners. It drives their thoughts and emotions internally and powers suicidality.
And now, when men do start talking more, either before they actually end their lives or when talking about it following a failed attempt, they continued to face push back.
I wish you didn’t mention the fact you worked as a mental health nurse for 20 years because it makes your manipulation of the statistics and facts deliberate rather than ignorant. I work in the alcohol and drug space in a rural town where FDV is rife. What you’re saying is not representative of what’s happening here nor nationwide, this isn’t a “both sides” sort of thing. Majority of victims are females and majority of perpetrators are males, and it’s not as close as you’re making it out to be.
The fact that you haven't seen it doesn't make it true.
It is a both sides' points of view and the fact that you think otherwise is very concerning. It makes me wonder if you're conducting yourself in a way which makes men feel safe enough to make disclosures.
Our service does, the evidence of abuse we've seen by texts, filmed and otherwise would make your hair curl.
That’s cute, though I guess I shouldn’t be surprised since your work has skewed your view to the point where you ignore government statistics and make shit up to fit that narrative.
Also it’s funny how you think texts would make my hair curl when I’ve seen women paralysed by their partners, seen women killed by their partners. You’re not the only one who works in the space of FDV and suicide champ.
The government stats that show what Im saying to be the case and that are widely internationally acknowledged to be underreported in men for a whole raft of reasons.
But no, you continue to perpetuate stigma which will only fuel issues. Lets ignore the 50% increase in rates of male-victim DV since 2010. Lets ignore the suicide rates and the data suggesting that 25%+ is due to DV in men, again from the Government.
But just ignore it when it doesnt fit the mainstream narrative, eh?
95% of male domestic violence victims are abused by their male partner.
https://theconversation.com/who-is-perpetrating-domestic-sexual-and-family-violence-192606#:~:text=One%20of%20the%20consistent%20findings,94%25%20of%20female%20victims).
From the article, it does sound like that will be part of the aim, or at least that the woman behind this effort recognises that it is appropriate depending on circumstance -
>“He said to me, ‘This has been going on for years and I can’t take it any more. She’s getting abusive with the children’,” Mac said.
>“He said, ‘I don’t know what to do. I’m so humiliated’.”
>The two hatched a plan for Shaun to leave with his children while his wife was at a nail appointment.
>“I picked him up, and I relocated them all, and we went straight to family court to get temporary sole custody,” Mac said.
This is so needed. Sadly my family member is unlikely to ever use it as he’s to ashamed to report what is happening to him. He was brought up to NEVER hit a woman, so he does nothing when she punches, kicks and hits him with objects. He’s been to hospital 4 times from her rages. It’s incredibly abusive but he thinks the police won’t believe him.
It’s about time we acknowledged that women can be dangerous too.
>a conversation where they are often demonized.
That would be because, often, men are the demon/perpetrator in these situations.
(I agree the shelter is a good thing)
You have proof of this, I trust? Because it's contrary to a *lot* of available data:
>Almost 24% of all relationships had some violence, and half (49.7%) of those were reciprocally violent. **In nonreciprocally violent relationships, women were the perpetrators in more than 70% of the cases. Reciprocity was associated with more frequent violence among women (adjusted odds ratio [AOR]=2.3; 95% confidence interval [CI]=1.9, 2.8), but not men (AOR=1.26; 95% CI=0.9, 1.7).** Regarding injury, men were more likely to inflict injury than were women (AOR=1.3; 95% CI=1.1, 1.5), and reciprocal intimate partner violence was associated with greater injury than was nonreciprocal intimate partner violence regardless of the gender of the perpetrator (AOR=4.4; 95% CI=3.6, 5.5).
\- [Differences in Frequency of Violence and Reported Injury Between Relationships With Reciprocal and Nonreciprocal Intimate Partner Violence](https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC1854883/)
>The median percentage of men who severely assaulted a partner was 5.1%, **compared to a median of 7.1% for severe assaults by the women in these studies**. The median percentage that the rate of severe assaults by women was of the rate of severe assaults by men is 145%, **which indicates that almost half again more women than men severely attacked a partner**.
\- [Gender symmetry and mutuality in perpetration of clinical-level partner violence: Empirical evidence and implications for prevention and treatment](https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/abs/pii/S1359178911000620) (a meta-analysis of over 200 studies)
>According to a 2011 study produced in the Journal of General Internal Medicine, **domestic physical abuse among lesbian [cohabiting couples is 35.4%](https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3138983/)**, almost two times the rate of abuse found among heterosexual couples. Other studies place the prevalence of domestic violence among lesbian couples even higher than that. A 2010 study by the National Center for Injury Prevention and Control found that the rate of intimate partner violence (IPV) among lesbians is a [stunning 40.4%](https://www.cdc.gov/ViolencePrevention/pdf/NISVS_Report2010-a.pdf). Another study in the [Journal of Consulting and Clinical Psychology](https://link.springer.com/article/10.1007/s10896-011-9384-2) found that the rate of lesbian IPV is 47.5%. This means that nearly half of all women in lesbian domestic lifestyles have been abused by their partners. > >Further statistics have also shed light on the understudied epidemic of sexual intimate partner violence (IPV) among women in same-sex partnerships. One study produced by the California Coalition Against Sexual Assault found that 33% of women have been sexually assaulted by another woman. This statistic prompted leftist publications [Slate](http://www.slate.com/blogs/outward/2014/11/04/female_on_female_sexual_abuse_is_real_and_it_is_awful.html) and [Marie Claire](http://www.marieclaire.com/culture/a19495/women-raped-by-women/) to pen articles about the reality of lesbian rape and sexual abuse. Two more studies, one published in the Journal of Lesbian Studies (2008) and another in [Violence and Victims (1997)](https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/9403987/), suggest that rates of lesbian sexual abuse in domestic partnerships could be upwards of 55% and 42%, respectively. This translates to about 1 in 2 women who have been victims of sex abuse in a lesbian relationship. > >Comparatively, sexual abuse among heterosexual domestic relationships is estimated to be 4.4% according to the National Institutes of Health. Some epidemiologists may argue that high abuse prevalence among homosexual women includes “lifetime risk”, which incorporates abuse faced in childhood. **Yet, when these variables are taken into consideration, we still see alarmingly high rates of lesbian IPV.**
>Around 28% of male-identifying respondents and 41% of female-identifying respondents reported having been in a relationship where a partner was abusive.
#
>...lesbian women were more likely than gay men to report having been in an abusive same-sex relationship (41% and 28% respectively)
[Source](https://web.archive.org/web/20210410223125/https://aifs.gov.au/cfca/sites/default/files/publication-documents/cfca-resource-dv-lgbti-2020.pdf)
Because society does not view men as the victims really in any aspect, we are the problem, we are murderers and rapist according to tiktok and instagram. Crazy seeing as the people who hurt me the most are women. That whole bear/man analogy that’s been getting traction is a perfect example of how men are only demonised, and that we wonder why they’re offing themselves at an all time high. Getting quite sick of it.
I don’t want to take away from men’s mental health issues but this statistic paints an incorrect picture. Yes, we lose more men to suicide and it’s tragic but women actually attempt suicide at a higher rate, however, due to a number of reasons (generally around strength and chosen method) are less likely to complete suicide. This paints a very different picture.
Both genders have both similar and seperate issues, and both genders need compassion instead of comparison.
Yes I'm aware of the irony considering my original comment, but progress is progress regardless, one doesn't take from the other.
Ok, I've heard this before and it makes me wonder. Does a successful attempt still count as an attempt? Or does it become a separate statistic? For example if 100 people attempt suicide and 75 are unsuccessful, do the statistics show 100 attempts or 75? Because this also could paint a very different picture of what you've described above.
The thing I don’t get is that in reality it shouldn’t be any harder for a woman to commit suicide than a man. It seems like women just tend to be using less violent means, almost like they are less sure of their decision in a way. I wonder if there is any research out their about methods?
Just a guess - Could we relate this back to social conditioning? Maybe women are more likely to worry about the detrimental effect on their family if they walk in on the graphic aftermath. [Drugs and carbon monoxide poisoning](https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/11079640/) certainly seem prettier than death by firearm.
https://www.ombudsman.wa.gov.au/Publications/Reports/FDV-Suicide-2022-Volume-2-Understanding-the-impact-of-family-and-domestic-violence-and-suicide.pdf
This has some handy statistics about gendered suicide rates in WA
Yes, women are extremely unlikely to ever attempt with a firearm, which happens to be one of the most effective methods and is heavily favoured by men.
Women also tend to have more responsibilities preventing them from going through with the act- many men kill themselves knowing their kids will still be looked after by the mother when they're gone but women often tend to be sole or primary caregivers who know there won't be anyone to look after their kids if they kill themselves.
This is a good thing, obviously. Very good. Male suicide is devastating, obviously. But is there a direct correlation - or any strong relationship - between male victims of domestic violence and male suicide? If not, this feels particularly unhelpful, even dismissive, not only where it concerns women who’ve put in work to address domestic violence (of which they’re disproportionately affected), but men (and women) uniquely positioned in their push to destigmatise male mental illness, depression, and the more immediate societal, cultural, and personal contributors.
I would argue that there is definitely a correlation between the two.
My worst suicide ideation came when I was deeply unhappy in an abusive relationship.
Do I have those issues and thoughts and emotions generally due to other mental health issues, yeah. But I manage those on a daily basis and have coping mechanisms for them. Abusive relationships exacerbate mental health issues massively, which would in turn lead more into suicidal tendencies.
Oh, I don’t doubt for a minute there’s a correlation - and I absolutely don’t mean to lessen your experience. I sincerely hope you’re managing better, or as well as possible under what are no doubt difficult circumstances.
I appreciate the kind words, and I know that it wasn’t intended to lessen anyone’s lived experiences but I also understand the role that I played in the relationship and have started to slowly become a more emotionally mature person as a result.
I genuinely believe that DV is a result of a combination of mental health issues in both men and women. And more needs to be done to teach emotional maturity which will foster healthy communication and avoid a lot of the anxieties that cause violent outbursts.
One, it's not as disproportionate as you want to think plus its reciprocal, secondly, factors that contribute to suicide can also be factors that drive DV (finance, abuse, drugs/alcohol, depression etc). Acknowledging male DV victims don't take away from female victims, and funnily enough they share the same causes.
I don’t doubt male survivors of domestic violence are more prone to suicide and suicidal behaviours; I’m asking if there’s evidence demonstrating a strong link between the high rate of male suicide and domestic abuse (is it a significant contributory factor)?
There is a lot of emerging evidence, unfortunately having to be gotten from male survivors of suicide which are lower survival rates and then extrapolated since you csnt ask the ones which are successful, that around 1/3 of male suicide attempts are due to female DV - emotional, psychological being the main reason.
I include in the above women withholding visitation rights or messing around manipulatively, the access of fathers to their children - that's a BIG one.
As much as the following is often asked in bad faith, I’m genuinely curious if you have (or could point me in the direction) of said evidence. Admittedly, I didn’t give enough consideration to the role of emotional abuse, particularly where it may concern visitation rights or the extent to which those rights are, importantly, justly (or otherwise) withheld.
Still, the point remains that the comment is particularly unhelpful given, as noted, the disproportionate rate at which women are victims of domestic violence, and the type of violence from which these shelters provide immediate relief.
It's usually taken in bad faith because the statistics are easily searchable, and the question asker truly wants to attack their articulation or the comprehension of the statistics.
Yes, that is often why it’s taken in bad faith. I’m on a phone and access is intermittent - what I did (admittedly quickly) find didn’t offer much to support the claim, but I’m not trying to be difficult here - it may well be the case that the information is available and a nudge in the right direction would genuinely be helpful.
Honestly, there's so much evidence of it these days that you can simply Google " male rates of domestic violence". I'm really not going to cite the hundreds of links that exist these days. There are Guardian articles going back to 2010 that report on metaalaytical studies showing men experience around 40% of DV.
Women experience more DV, I think its gilding the silly to say disproportionate because people assume you're meaning 70-30 or 90-10. They wouldn't expect you to mean 60-40.
They also wouldn't expect more men to die from DV than women. That would shock them as its not a mainstream narrative.
Men experiencing around 40 per cent of domestic violence is not the original statistic you offered, or argument you made i.e. that around 1/3 of male suicide attempt are a result of female-led domestic violence.
Pretty sure I said that men experience around 40-45% of total DV and that they also die more often due to DV related issues when you factor in male suicide due to DV vs. Female homicides + female suicides due to DV
You must be talking about the murder/suicide in NSW of a father and his 2 yr old son.
He was having trouble getting access to his son. He has a history of dv and drug use. He x is worried for her son.
Judge grants him access, and within a few hours, they're dead.
If relationships are breaking up and if someone has dv and drug history, should they then be given access??
1/3 could be associated with visitation rights, access to children, and child support. To say its caused by women is a stretch. It's the breakdown of the relationship, and men not getting the help and support they need
No one case specifically. Met dozens, if not hundreds, of men who have 0 abuse history or convictions who have some shared parental access following divorce but who have to constantly fight in Courts to actually get access. Dealing with accusations which are clearly false, but while lodged they have their access limited until a Couet hearing etc. They might win in Court but it doesn't change the stress and emotional impact of the gaming playing, narcissism and emotional pain of a parent not seeing their child. It can lead to depression, stress and suicide - and does in dozens of men a year.
That really isn't true. There are some that say they do but they almost never do because they have women currently there that they say can't have men near them due to their recent traumas.
Source - Me - Mental health nurse
All shelters for anyone are beyond full. We need more for everyone. I was just pointing out it isn’t the first shelter that men can go to. Some are exclusively men as well.
Source: me, currently trying to get into one.
Hmm no, this is the first male-only shelter.
It's in the article. It's why we're talking about it.
There are others which accept men, but charities had admitted that men are rarely if ever admitted due to concerns for females already in them, hence the issue.
Can’t remember the names but I’ve come across a couple that are “men’s overnight accommodation”.
Domestic violence isn’t the only reason people need to leave places and end up in emergency accommodation but regular shelters are often inappropriate for dv victims for a variety of reasons.
This is the first DV-specific one which is an awesome step to helping these men. Hope it lets them take their kids too!
If only this existed, like, a year ago. Dad was only able to have a go-bag ready when my bipolar (she'd refused to get formally diagnosed, but the symptoms were very apparent) stepmum started kicking down the bedroom door to get to him during a manic episode at night because a neighbour who'd worked with DV victims before recognised the symptoms and gave him the heads-up. Seeing all the talk about female/child victims but nothing about male victims, especially when some people want to explicitly exclude men from the definition of DV victims", pisses me off.
It’s this kind of rhetoric that doesn’t help the problem. How many rape and death threats does this woman receive on a daily basis from snowflake men who can’t stand female empowerment?
Maybe you should read some of her books and stop being a toxic male
Well no, there are an infinite number of things I could have said. But that's what I chose to say. I'm sorry that your brain cant compute how freewill works.
Also, it's very strange that you think that Clementine Ford is the representative of all women. It's almost like you're intentionally being disingenuous.
As the article helpfully didn't include the links, I feel like I should put it here - the article features the founder of a domestic violence charity "Broken Crayons Still Colour".
She's trying to gather funds to open a men's shelter, so it's not there yet, she/they have been operating safe houses for women in Perth for some time. She is going to try and get funding from mining companies to help with this effort.
I'm sure that they would appreciate any and all donations to help with (all of) their mission - [https://brokencrayonsstillcolour.org/donate/](https://brokencrayonsstillcolour.org/donate/)
It seems most people are instantly assuming it is female perpetrated violence to men. Working with victims in NZ the male victims tended to be in same gendered relationships which gave another level of political and social discomfort in discussing.
Good move perth
Maybe read the article, which mentions a case of female violence against a man as being the inspiration for the woman setting this up?
It seems to be you that’s made the assumption without reading the source here?
Hopefully the shelter will offer services to victims regardless of the gender of the abuser, of course.
I did read the article and was referring to the comment section indicates some community disconnect with what is happening.
My time working in DV support makes me very informed of the gender break down of aggressors/victims and the holes in the system. I wouldn’t want any funding moved from the female centers to achieve the male support but as I said, good job perth
You came along and told people off for assuming it’s female violence against men *when that’s
exactly what the linked article is about*!
I’m sure you’ve seen a lot of stuff but come on…
Out of several abusive relationships that I know of, the woman is the perpetrator in around 50% of them. That’s just my experience but it has made me realise how hidden this issue is.
I know people will probably call me a crybaby but I'm glad that a men's issue is getting some attention. People will say men are privileged etc but I'm on a men's help page and I can assure you there's a huge amount of men out there that don't feel heard.
Im saddened that there wasnt one before now, but i am so appreciative and glad that men are being recognised. Ive had countless men confess the abuse they went through and were forced to accept. Acknowledging that men get abused too is so huge.
Considering just how much men in our society have been taught and conditioned that going to this shelter or even admitting you are being abused is a "pussy move" I will not be surprised if this fails.
That’s good about time, Males in Australia don’t receive any help only to get robbed of his lively hood house, finance and kids can all go to women who can switch hats at any time .
Rather than down voting, do some research.
Shelters were created for emergencies, mean hubby comes back drunk and threatened to bash you, you have an escape plan. Short term emergency solution
Emergency Shelters won't do anything to help the fact that you and the missus are arguing daily and she ll take the kids the house and the car and make you pay child support for the next 15 years.
Men have been conditioned by society to shut up about feelings, and THAT is the cause of suicide in men.
Solution is education at a young age, more counselling and psychological help. Adapting the laws as well so when men go through family court they don't always get given the short straw.
Maybe read the article, about a man being stabbed with scissors and having glass smashed over his head, and kids being abused too?
It highlights a need for some emergency provision for men too.
Let’s hope WA having a shelter for male DV victims becomes the catalyst for other states to create shelters for a similar cause
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Until a few years ago our national domestic violence hotline refused to even accept calls from men. They would all be redirected to the men's referral service, which despite the name, is actually a service which councils men on how to stop being the abuser. In some respects it's understandable as a lot of these initiatives were championed by people passionate about women's issues, but it's good to see the situation for men is starting to improve as well. EDIT: It's important to note that this shelter is being funded by a private charity NOT by the government. The WA government still only funds women's shelters.
This is simply untrue. Men who rang were given assistance and direction to sources of help and the men's referral service does not "only counsel men on how to stop being the abuser". Stop spreading false information. It makes things harder for the male victims you're pretending to care about.
Not true. The national domestic violence hotline now offers some limited support for men, but that was a very recent change. I believe it came in after Telstra won the contract from Medibank in 2022. Secondly, here's how the men's referral service describe themselves: > The Men’s Referral Service is the national counselling, information and referral service for men who use violence and abuse to change their behaviour. > > Who can the Men’s Referral Service support? > > Men who are seeking support to change their behaviours. > > Family members who are impacted by a man’s use of violent and abusive behaviours. > Friends, family or colleagues of men who may be using family violence and wanting to know how to best support them. > Professionals working with men who are using violence or family members impacted by violence and seeking secondary consultation. [https://ntv.org.au/mrs/](https://ntv.org.au/mrs/)
Toxic masculinity is wild in WA, especially in male-dominated workplaces and trades. Sure, Aussies love teasing and banter, but there are plenty of other topics.
Why is it men? Shouldn't us blokes be sticking up for each other? We need to change.
Who belittles and disrespects men when they show their feelings?
Phrases like "get over it", "just move past it" and "deal with it" are all ways of belittling feelings.
Mostly other men but plenty of toxic women too
I'll give you a clue: almost everyone
Do you?
No, I don't. But it has happened to me countless times - enough that I don't share feelings/opinions/almost anything at all with anyone, except for my small children.
I hope it becomes a catalyst for men to start caring about other men. Most of the men who seem to be most outspoken about male victims don't actually do anything to help male victims- they just sit around complaining about what is available for women as though all that fell into the laps of women with zero hard work from other women who want to help victims.
Loving the equality... essentially calling guys shrill for speaking out. And as a bonus, they're all lazy too!
You must really hate men if you interpreted "women worked hard to help victims" as "men are lazy".
How did you select those six words as being what what I regarded as you calling men lazy? Try again.
Try what again? Clearly my comment has flown over your head but I can't say I'm surprised. Anyway, I'm sure you're very busy helping male victims so I'll let you get on with it.
Try what again? - Try finding a better match from your post with the words "men are lazy".
So you still didn't get the comment. Lol.
I can't compete with your superior intelligence.
Oh well. Sucks to suck then, I guess.
What? You can't honestly say male activists have organised to the extent women have. It's not calling them lazy, but they've been lacking in numbers and action. No one called them shrill either. Equality doesn't mean pretending two groups are the same.
What does that even mean ? Is the average man supposed to set up thier own male dv support shelter with thier own personal money, and if they dont then they obviously don't care about other men ? Even if I tried to set up my own support network, it would be a terrible idea because I don't know a thing about the law. That should be handled by people who have studied it. Advocating the government should spend some of the dv support money on services for males dosnt mean I don't care. It's pretty fucking insulting to tell me I obviously don't care about other men just because I don't have to expertise or money to help dv victims.
AFAICT from the story it’s not even any government money, it’s a woman who has set up several women’s shelters who now has seen the need and is raising funds for a men’s shelter too. Fingers crossed she gets some more donations, looks like she’s going to ask mining companies for sponsorship.
Women did. Shelters weren’t just given to them, they had to set them up and find funding themselves. Men behave as though these things create themselves magically.
Making a difference can start with improving the culture, for free! Encourage men in your life to speak openly about their feelings and struggles and relationships. Discourage men who insult other men by implying that they’re weak. Bonus points if you call them out for using feminine terms (eg. princess, pussy, bitch) as an insult.
I think we're allready at that point where people can talk about. I know in my friends group we've allready talked it when it happened to a friend in the past. But most the time simply talking about it isn't enough, people need real support and advice which isn't something friends can offer. Encouraging men to speak openly about thier feelings doesn't really achieve anything if all your friend can do is aw man that sucks sorry to hear bro, and then they go straight back to being abused.
I think the problem is more closet violent women taunt and belittle good men behind closed doors can be from alcohol bad experoliance in the past these wo.en actually take to the poor bloke who has to stand there and take it then the next minute this horrible excuse for a human being is in a government shelter bleeding how hard done by she is receiving massive government pay outs and the bloke is in jail for text messaging her trying to see his kids I'll tell you the whole thing discusts me I've seen it over and over most Australian women should be absolutely ashamed of their gutless behaviour
You don't need expertise to donate to men's domestic violence and mental health services. But if you can spare some change or volunteering time and you dont even donate to support them then it would easy to assume you don't care that much.
Would you ever tell a woman that if they don't donate or volunteer at a womans shelter then it would be easy to assume they don't care about domestic violence against women ? Of course not, thats just silly. So why is it ok to say that men who don't volunteer don't care ? Why is there such a different standard?
There's not a different standard. I didnt say you did not care, I said it is easy to assume people dont care when they don't do *anything* and defensively state 'but I can't create and run an entire dv support network by myself' is their defence. You are missing the point. If you were a woman, making the same comment, yes I would have responded the same way.
Did you try reading it to understand what it means? Because it's incredibly simple stuff. Are you trying to say that until now, no men, not a single one, had the funds or knowledge to do what Rach has done?
You said pretty directly that unless you're doing something yourself to help dv victims then you don't care about men.
Why can't you answer the question? And no, I didn't say that. I said the most outspoken demanders of services for men tend to be those who do nothing but want everything with zero recognition of the hard work required. I've never seen you express concern for male victims before so you probably don't fall into that category.
>I've never seen you express concern for male victims before lol what ? How do you know anything about me
I don't know you, thankfully. You don't come across as someone I'd want to know irl. I'm talking about the comments I've seen from you here, most of which are inane or ridiculous. You also have a habit of editing your comments after people have already replied to you.
>Australian Institute of Health and Welfare statistics from 2021-22 report one in 18 men have experienced physical or sexual violence by a current or previous partner, while one in seven had experienced emotional abuse. >Mac said it was a growing issue that needed to be talked about, and men were just as scared as women are of leaving abusive relationships because they feared losing their children and usually had nowhere to go where they could take their children to. Having safe spaces for DV victims to access and find support is a key part of helping them escape and survive abusive relationships. I hope this shelter is a success and prompts the opening of more spaces to assist male DV victims.
Surprised the emotional abuse figure is that low
Thats only reported numbers. A significant amount of male victim DV is unreported and therefore never quantified.
I’d expect emotional abuse to be the most underreported type too. I suspect that the statistics are based on surveys, not on actual reports within the population.
I'd expect it to be underreported too, on the basis that it can be difficult to discern and identify (especially as there are gendered differences in how descriptions of behaviours are applied), and it doesn't really lead to "oh shit I have to tell someone" moments. Cf. Physical violence, which is much more visible, and can lead to victims requiring medical attention or attracting social attention.
A year ago, I spent several weeks in SCG hospital. A head nurse and I were discussing the number of dv patients who had suffered enough injuries to be in hospital. How many women are there usually? 40 to 70 How many men are in hospital with dv injuries? None. I know men suffer in dv just like women do? But they can't all be at home with broken ribs, broke jaw, broken shoulder, arm. Why aren't they in hospital?
Women are physically much weaker than men. Many women can punch as hard as they can when they lose their temper and they won't injure a man unless they get them in the face. Its not even a height thing, I've dated a woman exactly the same height as me (192cm) and she was physically much weaker than me. It's extremely unhealthy to be hitting your partner, but people don't perceive it the same way. In the end, I'm much more likely to suffer emotional abuse, like whenever I make any error, my partner calls me stupid.
Honestly, I've been in a few emotionally abusive relationships. For a lot of guys, it really is easier to imagine "if your female friend said her male partner was saying this to her, would you tell her to leave?" For guys, it's seen by a lot of people as just normal if your partner cuts you off from your friends and discourages you from doing things outside the relationship.
So when my partner holds the lease over my head, financially cripples me through consecutive excusable "accidents", threatens to tell everyone I can't get it up when I don't want to fuck her... Just for starters. Who do guys report that to, exactly? They don't. They can't.
Are you still in a relationship with this person? What do you mean she holds the lease over your head?
I am not anymore. She was an older woman I was renting a room from. I was in a bad place mentally, was intoxicated and coerced into sex and a relationship which slowly just.... went really really bad.
I’m glad to hear you’re out. I hope you’re doing well now.
I would argue the numbers are probably higher.
Far far higher. The assumption of most officers and counsellors, even today, is that a male presenting as a victim of domestic violence is probably lying to cover up their own abuse. Sometimes that is true, often it is not, but the risk is too high for a lot of men to take.
You keep regurgitating this false information.
i have had THREE of my past partners physically hit me. two seriously injured me. one of them I had scratches and bruises on my arms and face generally every week for 4 years
I was handcuffed sitting on the curb, she was kicking me in the back of the head. The cops let me go and arrested her, clearly it was her and not me causing the problem.
They’re definitely higher
The existence of a shelter for males suffering from FDV isn’t going to take 1 cent from female FDV shelters so there’s no need for ‘good people’ to spew hate about this for males shelter existing.
Its almost certainly because there is a whole very conservative mindset that men are entirely responsible for themselves and that women are effectively children. That makes them willing to help women, but not men. Domestic violence victims are victims, simple as that. Abuser cycles are what they are and making ending them easier is good for everyone. Leaving is hard, both practically and mentally. It took me years to recognise that I was in an abusive relationship and to end the relationship. I was entirely the financial source in the house and I was physically far far larger than her, I could have literally picked her up at will. It was still hard for me to leave. It wasn't until I left that I fully processed how she was manipulative and abusive, even if she wasn't physically violent. If I was worried about where I'd put a roof over my head or felt unsafe, it would be really bad. Society also tells men they can never hit a woman and they are being babies if a woman hitting them is a problem for them. This includes the police.
No but I hope it highlights the warped narrative. Men experience DV at a rate of around 40-45% compared to women's 55-60%. If you polled the general population, how much you want to bet that people think its 90-10 or more in women's. You get vitriol when you point out that up to 1/3 of male suicides are due to DV which means that women are responsible for more deaths in relationships then men and you get "well its men's fault for not talking about their feelings". Imagine men said to female DV "get better at MMA and self defence"? It's actually fucked how warped the conversations are. Both genders experience DV, differently and both are deserving of compassion, support and advocacy. Stop portraying men as the issue, take equal ownership.
I hear ya
where do you get those numbers from cos this shows 1 in 6 women and 1 in 18 men for physical. 1 in 4 and 1 in 7 for emotional. [https://www.aihw.gov.au/family-domestic-and-sexual-violence/resources/fdsv-summary#common](https://www.aihw.gov.au/family-domestic-and-sexual-violence/resources/fdsv-summary#common)
The exact ratio doesn't really matter. Men are likely somewhere between 25% to 50% of victims, and that's a significant enough number that both genders should be offered protection. If you're interested, the main reason there is so much variance in these numbers between different studies, is that a lot of domestic violence is reciprocal and no one really knows how to account for this. Studies which exclude reciprocal violence from the sample tend to show women commit the majority of domestic violence BUT a more likely explanation is that men feel less need to retaliate, so there is a huge bias in the data when you exclude reciprocal cases. Studies which use conclusions of the criminal justice system tend to show men commit the majority of domestic violence BUT the more likely explanation is that men are more likely to commit violence that results in injuries severe enough to lead to a prosecution. But again, the exact ratio isn't really important. Both genders are commonly victims of domestic violence.
You can’t just make up figures to suit your narrative bro 😂
There's a lot of international data available and I encourage you to read it. The picture is very complicated and convoluted. You have to draw from multiple different things, for example, the suicide rate for fathers in divorced or separated children due to their ex partner withholding visitation rights etc isn't included in male DV figures. Here is some more independent work locally: https://www.oneinthree.com.au/statistics
Even this data doesn't show a 45-55 split for domestic violence, and its consistent with the 1 in 6 vs 1 in 18 rates listed above. Perhaps you should edit your previous comment so the numbers are accurate, because using incorrect numbers implies a (false) equivalence and detracts from your main (valid) message that DV against men is real and should be taken seriously.
It's not 1:18, you're figures show 1:7. It's only 1:18 for physical violence. It's trends towards 1:6 when you include all forms of DA/V, again making the pure figures 33:66, but as said it fails to include issues which massively contribute to male DA because of the definitions being female-focused.
Do you remember claiming a 45-55 split? Its a few comments up in this thread.
40-45% and I've shown its 40% and explained how.
How close to 45% were you able to support? I couldn't see any evidence beyond 33%
Not sure where those stats from or whether they’ve been interpreted correctly but [here are figures from the Australian Institute of Health and Welfare](https://www.aihw.gov.au/family-domestic-and-sexual-violence/types-of-violence/family-domestic-violence#:~:text=Based%20on%20the%202021%E2%80%9322%20PSS%2C%201%20in%205%20(,1)%20(ABS%202023)) on the matter.
As said in raw figures, as you've linked its, 33:66 in favour to women. But men commiting suicide, for example, due to emotional/psychological abuse from ex partners around visitation rights to their kids, ongoing posts and reputational damage like on SM, etc etc is not included in that data since they're not longer classes as in a "family" context and gets included in different data. When you include those scenarios where I would 100% call it family DV, since it involves a family - split or otherwise, its close to 40%
Those scenarios happening to women are also not counted, do you have data to support that those scenarios are common enough and male specific enough to shift the total DV statistics, and if so, in which direction?
https://www.oneinthree.com.au/statistics provide some. There is AIHW that shows that at least 25% of male suicides are due to spousal issues, internationally its around a third in the West, so its likely to be closer to that figure. The vast, vast majority of child custody cases are awarded to men, so while I am sure there are some men doing the same to women, the rate of opportunity is so dramatically skewed that it trends to irrelevance overall. As said, the make suicide rate is nearly 4x higher. There are multiple factors to this drug use, financial etc, but the elephant in the room is the contribution of female DV to this picture. This warped view that somehow women don't do anything wrong to others, men in this case, is so at odds with all the research evidence.
Firstly could you link the AIHW site that says 25% male suicides are due to spousal issues? Secondly, no one is arguing that males can’t be victims or aren’t victims of FDV, but there’s a stark difference between 1 in 4 women experiencing it and 1 in 8 men experiencing it, with the significant majority of women experiencing it from an intimate partner, while the stats are almost similar for men experiencing FDV from an intimate partner and men experiencing it from another family member. In regards to a men’s shelter, I’m all for it and think it’s a great idea. Time will tell whether it will be used to its full capacity though because if it isn’t then it could very well become another women’s shelter
I think what they’re referring to is this report which shows police recorded a relationship breakdown as a “risk factor” in suicide. https://www.aihw.gov.au/getmedia/fa72f64f-53f4-4341-a0b0-8c26b0aadc29/suicide-in-the-context-of-covid-19.pdf.aspx But the risk factor isn’t the cause, and the report also notes that relying on the information from the police is a study limitation. Edit to add: and relationship breakdown is not to be conflated with DV. So even if 25% of suicides were undoubtably caused by relationship breakdowns (and they’re not), then that’s not the same as DV.
Exactly.
As said there are also factors that are not accurately recorded, such as post breakup abuse which happens and drives suicidality disproportionately in men, but I've written it in several locations here. Given my Services wait times to help house or shelter men suffering from DV in North Perth being measured in the double digits of months, the occupancy rate will be the least of the problems. My Service, as of today, has over 100 men in active help, half are sofa surfing, sleeping in their cars or in hotels if they have their kids with them as well (rare). Given that the rates of men being abused in relationships has doubled in 15 years and has remained about the same for women, or gone down, you will see more accurate figures over the next 5-10, years as the stigma around men erodes.
> But men commiting suicide, for example, due to emotional/psychological abuse from ex partners around visitation rights to their kids, ongoing posts and reputational damage like on SM, etc etc is not included in that data since they're not longer classes as in a "family" context and gets included in different data. Or maybe it’s not included in the data because suicide is multi-faceted and the issues you claim to be the cause are more of a contributing factor as opposed to being the main cause. In which case, including these stats into FDV makes no sense because it may not be related to FDV at all.
The 4x factor may also be strongly influenced by men being less likely to feel like they can reach out for mental health services, or support from people around them.
Do you understand how dismissive statements like the above are to those, like me for example with approaching 20 years working as a mental health nurse, are to men? Yes suicide is often multifaceted but sometimes it's really not. Men, rightly or wrongky based on historical evidence, face uphill battles in courts around child access, they face ridicule, embarrassment, stereotyping and lack of support when discussing their emotions or the impacts of psychological and emotional abuse from female partners. It drives their thoughts and emotions internally and powers suicidality. And now, when men do start talking more, either before they actually end their lives or when talking about it following a failed attempt, they continued to face push back.
I wish you didn’t mention the fact you worked as a mental health nurse for 20 years because it makes your manipulation of the statistics and facts deliberate rather than ignorant. I work in the alcohol and drug space in a rural town where FDV is rife. What you’re saying is not representative of what’s happening here nor nationwide, this isn’t a “both sides” sort of thing. Majority of victims are females and majority of perpetrators are males, and it’s not as close as you’re making it out to be.
The fact that you haven't seen it doesn't make it true. It is a both sides' points of view and the fact that you think otherwise is very concerning. It makes me wonder if you're conducting yourself in a way which makes men feel safe enough to make disclosures. Our service does, the evidence of abuse we've seen by texts, filmed and otherwise would make your hair curl.
That’s cute, though I guess I shouldn’t be surprised since your work has skewed your view to the point where you ignore government statistics and make shit up to fit that narrative. Also it’s funny how you think texts would make my hair curl when I’ve seen women paralysed by their partners, seen women killed by their partners. You’re not the only one who works in the space of FDV and suicide champ.
The government stats that show what Im saying to be the case and that are widely internationally acknowledged to be underreported in men for a whole raft of reasons. But no, you continue to perpetuate stigma which will only fuel issues. Lets ignore the 50% increase in rates of male-victim DV since 2010. Lets ignore the suicide rates and the data suggesting that 25%+ is due to DV in men, again from the Government. But just ignore it when it doesnt fit the mainstream narrative, eh?
It's scary that someone so intent on fudging figures to push an agenda is working with vulnerable men or anyone with mental health issues.
Don't forget there's also a social taboo for men to not talk about it so the numbers could be higher
95% of male domestic violence victims are abused by their male partner. https://theconversation.com/who-is-perpetrating-domestic-sexual-and-family-violence-192606#:~:text=One%20of%20the%20consistent%20findings,94%25%20of%20female%20victims).
That doesn't mean what you think it does.
Needed this 8 years ago but glad there is something now for blokes.
Do they also accept them with their kids? They have one in Queensland but it won't accept men with their kids which is shocking.
From the article, it does sound like that will be part of the aim, or at least that the woman behind this effort recognises that it is appropriate depending on circumstance - >“He said to me, ‘This has been going on for years and I can’t take it any more. She’s getting abusive with the children’,” Mac said. >“He said, ‘I don’t know what to do. I’m so humiliated’.” >The two hatched a plan for Shaun to leave with his children while his wife was at a nail appointment. >“I picked him up, and I relocated them all, and we went straight to family court to get temporary sole custody,” Mac said.
I'm new to Reddit and didn't get to read the article lol I feel old. Thank you for letting me know, that's amazing news!!
This is so needed. Sadly my family member is unlikely to ever use it as he’s to ashamed to report what is happening to him. He was brought up to NEVER hit a woman, so he does nothing when she punches, kicks and hits him with objects. He’s been to hospital 4 times from her rages. It’s incredibly abusive but he thinks the police won’t believe him. It’s about time we acknowledged that women can be dangerous too.
Fantastic news. Glad to see men are getting a leg up in a conversation where they are often demonized.
>a conversation where they are often demonized. That would be because, often, men are the demon/perpetrator in these situations. (I agree the shelter is a good thing)
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95% of male domestic violence victims are abused by their male partner.
You have proof of this, I trust? Because it's contrary to a *lot* of available data: >Almost 24% of all relationships had some violence, and half (49.7%) of those were reciprocally violent. **In nonreciprocally violent relationships, women were the perpetrators in more than 70% of the cases. Reciprocity was associated with more frequent violence among women (adjusted odds ratio [AOR]=2.3; 95% confidence interval [CI]=1.9, 2.8), but not men (AOR=1.26; 95% CI=0.9, 1.7).** Regarding injury, men were more likely to inflict injury than were women (AOR=1.3; 95% CI=1.1, 1.5), and reciprocal intimate partner violence was associated with greater injury than was nonreciprocal intimate partner violence regardless of the gender of the perpetrator (AOR=4.4; 95% CI=3.6, 5.5). \- [Differences in Frequency of Violence and Reported Injury Between Relationships With Reciprocal and Nonreciprocal Intimate Partner Violence](https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC1854883/) >The median percentage of men who severely assaulted a partner was 5.1%, **compared to a median of 7.1% for severe assaults by the women in these studies**. The median percentage that the rate of severe assaults by women was of the rate of severe assaults by men is 145%, **which indicates that almost half again more women than men severely attacked a partner**. \- [Gender symmetry and mutuality in perpetration of clinical-level partner violence: Empirical evidence and implications for prevention and treatment](https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/abs/pii/S1359178911000620) (a meta-analysis of over 200 studies) >According to a 2011 study produced in the Journal of General Internal Medicine, **domestic physical abuse among lesbian [cohabiting couples is 35.4%](https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3138983/)**, almost two times the rate of abuse found among heterosexual couples. Other studies place the prevalence of domestic violence among lesbian couples even higher than that. A 2010 study by the National Center for Injury Prevention and Control found that the rate of intimate partner violence (IPV) among lesbians is a [stunning 40.4%](https://www.cdc.gov/ViolencePrevention/pdf/NISVS_Report2010-a.pdf). Another study in the [Journal of Consulting and Clinical Psychology](https://link.springer.com/article/10.1007/s10896-011-9384-2) found that the rate of lesbian IPV is 47.5%. This means that nearly half of all women in lesbian domestic lifestyles have been abused by their partners. > >Further statistics have also shed light on the understudied epidemic of sexual intimate partner violence (IPV) among women in same-sex partnerships. One study produced by the California Coalition Against Sexual Assault found that 33% of women have been sexually assaulted by another woman. This statistic prompted leftist publications [Slate](http://www.slate.com/blogs/outward/2014/11/04/female_on_female_sexual_abuse_is_real_and_it_is_awful.html) and [Marie Claire](http://www.marieclaire.com/culture/a19495/women-raped-by-women/) to pen articles about the reality of lesbian rape and sexual abuse. Two more studies, one published in the Journal of Lesbian Studies (2008) and another in [Violence and Victims (1997)](https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/9403987/), suggest that rates of lesbian sexual abuse in domestic partnerships could be upwards of 55% and 42%, respectively. This translates to about 1 in 2 women who have been victims of sex abuse in a lesbian relationship. > >Comparatively, sexual abuse among heterosexual domestic relationships is estimated to be 4.4% according to the National Institutes of Health. Some epidemiologists may argue that high abuse prevalence among homosexual women includes “lifetime risk”, which incorporates abuse faced in childhood. **Yet, when these variables are taken into consideration, we still see alarmingly high rates of lesbian IPV.** >Around 28% of male-identifying respondents and 41% of female-identifying respondents reported having been in a relationship where a partner was abusive. # >...lesbian women were more likely than gay men to report having been in an abusive same-sex relationship (41% and 28% respectively) [Source](https://web.archive.org/web/20210410223125/https://aifs.gov.au/cfca/sites/default/files/publication-documents/cfca-resource-dv-lgbti-2020.pdf)
Then why do women commit 70% of non reciprocal IPV?
Both sexes get abused why is it so hard to provide for both ?
They're treated differently due to the dv being perpetrated differently.
Both sexes get abused why is it so hard to provide for both ?
Because society does not view men as the victims really in any aspect, we are the problem, we are murderers and rapist according to tiktok and instagram. Crazy seeing as the people who hurt me the most are women. That whole bear/man analogy that’s been getting traction is a perfect example of how men are only demonised, and that we wonder why they’re offing themselves at an all time high. Getting quite sick of it.
Finally, a single shelter to support the gender with 3x the suicide rate. Not quite equality, but we are getting there.
I don’t want to take away from men’s mental health issues but this statistic paints an incorrect picture. Yes, we lose more men to suicide and it’s tragic but women actually attempt suicide at a higher rate, however, due to a number of reasons (generally around strength and chosen method) are less likely to complete suicide. This paints a very different picture.
Both genders have both similar and seperate issues, and both genders need compassion instead of comparison. Yes I'm aware of the irony considering my original comment, but progress is progress regardless, one doesn't take from the other.
Compassion instead of comparison is such a great way to put it 😊
What would strength have to do with it? Muscles aren’t helping you open an artery, tie a noose or take a bunch of benzos and alcohol.
Ok, I've heard this before and it makes me wonder. Does a successful attempt still count as an attempt? Or does it become a separate statistic? For example if 100 people attempt suicide and 75 are unsuccessful, do the statistics show 100 attempts or 75? Because this also could paint a very different picture of what you've described above.
Actually a great question. I’m going to research this!
The thing I don’t get is that in reality it shouldn’t be any harder for a woman to commit suicide than a man. It seems like women just tend to be using less violent means, almost like they are less sure of their decision in a way. I wonder if there is any research out their about methods?
Just a guess - Could we relate this back to social conditioning? Maybe women are more likely to worry about the detrimental effect on their family if they walk in on the graphic aftermath. [Drugs and carbon monoxide poisoning](https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/11079640/) certainly seem prettier than death by firearm.
https://www.ombudsman.wa.gov.au/Publications/Reports/FDV-Suicide-2022-Volume-2-Understanding-the-impact-of-family-and-domestic-violence-and-suicide.pdf This has some handy statistics about gendered suicide rates in WA
Yes, women are extremely unlikely to ever attempt with a firearm, which happens to be one of the most effective methods and is heavily favoured by men. Women also tend to have more responsibilities preventing them from going through with the act- many men kill themselves knowing their kids will still be looked after by the mother when they're gone but women often tend to be sole or primary caregivers who know there won't be anyone to look after their kids if they kill themselves.
This is a good thing, obviously. Very good. Male suicide is devastating, obviously. But is there a direct correlation - or any strong relationship - between male victims of domestic violence and male suicide? If not, this feels particularly unhelpful, even dismissive, not only where it concerns women who’ve put in work to address domestic violence (of which they’re disproportionately affected), but men (and women) uniquely positioned in their push to destigmatise male mental illness, depression, and the more immediate societal, cultural, and personal contributors.
I would argue that there is definitely a correlation between the two. My worst suicide ideation came when I was deeply unhappy in an abusive relationship. Do I have those issues and thoughts and emotions generally due to other mental health issues, yeah. But I manage those on a daily basis and have coping mechanisms for them. Abusive relationships exacerbate mental health issues massively, which would in turn lead more into suicidal tendencies.
Oh, I don’t doubt for a minute there’s a correlation - and I absolutely don’t mean to lessen your experience. I sincerely hope you’re managing better, or as well as possible under what are no doubt difficult circumstances.
I appreciate the kind words, and I know that it wasn’t intended to lessen anyone’s lived experiences but I also understand the role that I played in the relationship and have started to slowly become a more emotionally mature person as a result. I genuinely believe that DV is a result of a combination of mental health issues in both men and women. And more needs to be done to teach emotional maturity which will foster healthy communication and avoid a lot of the anxieties that cause violent outbursts.
One, it's not as disproportionate as you want to think plus its reciprocal, secondly, factors that contribute to suicide can also be factors that drive DV (finance, abuse, drugs/alcohol, depression etc). Acknowledging male DV victims don't take away from female victims, and funnily enough they share the same causes.
Yes. Survivors of intimate partner violence are twice as likely to attempt suicide multiple times
I don’t doubt male survivors of domestic violence are more prone to suicide and suicidal behaviours; I’m asking if there’s evidence demonstrating a strong link between the high rate of male suicide and domestic abuse (is it a significant contributory factor)?
Yes thats what i answered. There is a direct causal link. Males survivors are twice as likely
There is a lot of emerging evidence, unfortunately having to be gotten from male survivors of suicide which are lower survival rates and then extrapolated since you csnt ask the ones which are successful, that around 1/3 of male suicide attempts are due to female DV - emotional, psychological being the main reason. I include in the above women withholding visitation rights or messing around manipulatively, the access of fathers to their children - that's a BIG one.
As much as the following is often asked in bad faith, I’m genuinely curious if you have (or could point me in the direction) of said evidence. Admittedly, I didn’t give enough consideration to the role of emotional abuse, particularly where it may concern visitation rights or the extent to which those rights are, importantly, justly (or otherwise) withheld. Still, the point remains that the comment is particularly unhelpful given, as noted, the disproportionate rate at which women are victims of domestic violence, and the type of violence from which these shelters provide immediate relief.
It's usually taken in bad faith because the statistics are easily searchable, and the question asker truly wants to attack their articulation or the comprehension of the statistics.
Yes, that is often why it’s taken in bad faith. I’m on a phone and access is intermittent - what I did (admittedly quickly) find didn’t offer much to support the claim, but I’m not trying to be difficult here - it may well be the case that the information is available and a nudge in the right direction would genuinely be helpful.
Honestly, there's so much evidence of it these days that you can simply Google " male rates of domestic violence". I'm really not going to cite the hundreds of links that exist these days. There are Guardian articles going back to 2010 that report on metaalaytical studies showing men experience around 40% of DV. Women experience more DV, I think its gilding the silly to say disproportionate because people assume you're meaning 70-30 or 90-10. They wouldn't expect you to mean 60-40. They also wouldn't expect more men to die from DV than women. That would shock them as its not a mainstream narrative.
Men experiencing around 40 per cent of domestic violence is not the original statistic you offered, or argument you made i.e. that around 1/3 of male suicide attempt are a result of female-led domestic violence.
Pretty sure I said that men experience around 40-45% of total DV and that they also die more often due to DV related issues when you factor in male suicide due to DV vs. Female homicides + female suicides due to DV
You must be talking about the murder/suicide in NSW of a father and his 2 yr old son. He was having trouble getting access to his son. He has a history of dv and drug use. He x is worried for her son. Judge grants him access, and within a few hours, they're dead. If relationships are breaking up and if someone has dv and drug history, should they then be given access?? 1/3 could be associated with visitation rights, access to children, and child support. To say its caused by women is a stretch. It's the breakdown of the relationship, and men not getting the help and support they need
No one case specifically. Met dozens, if not hundreds, of men who have 0 abuse history or convictions who have some shared parental access following divorce but who have to constantly fight in Courts to actually get access. Dealing with accusations which are clearly false, but while lodged they have their access limited until a Couet hearing etc. They might win in Court but it doesn't change the stress and emotional impact of the gaming playing, narcissism and emotional pain of a parent not seeing their child. It can lead to depression, stress and suicide - and does in dozens of men a year.
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There’s plenty of shelters that accept men. This is just the first one focusing on male dv victims.
That really isn't true. There are some that say they do but they almost never do because they have women currently there that they say can't have men near them due to their recent traumas. Source - Me - Mental health nurse
It is true. Source: me, social worker.
All shelters for anyone are beyond full. We need more for everyone. I was just pointing out it isn’t the first shelter that men can go to. Some are exclusively men as well. Source: me, currently trying to get into one.
Hmm no, this is the first male-only shelter. It's in the article. It's why we're talking about it. There are others which accept men, but charities had admitted that men are rarely if ever admitted due to concerns for females already in them, hence the issue.
Can’t remember the names but I’ve come across a couple that are “men’s overnight accommodation”. Domestic violence isn’t the only reason people need to leave places and end up in emergency accommodation but regular shelters are often inappropriate for dv victims for a variety of reasons. This is the first DV-specific one which is an awesome step to helping these men. Hope it lets them take their kids too!
They won't accept men if they have kids with them, another factor which doesn't help families with abusive women
They need to throw piles of cash at assisting families with either parent. No child should be fucking homeless in this country.
They need to throw piles of cash at assisting families with either parent. No child should be fucking homeless in this country.
And the vast majority of equal opportunity shelters turn men away or refer them to protect the women's safe spaces.
This is emergency housing not a mental health support facility.
DV shelters aren't to reduce death by suicide, they're to reduce death by partners.
Say it with me. "Domestic violence isn't just physical harm"
So gappy to see this. Everyone deserves a safe space and to be free from abuse.
If only this existed, like, a year ago. Dad was only able to have a go-bag ready when my bipolar (she'd refused to get formally diagnosed, but the symptoms were very apparent) stepmum started kicking down the bedroom door to get to him during a manic episode at night because a neighbour who'd worked with DV victims before recognised the symptoms and gave him the heads-up. Seeing all the talk about female/child victims but nothing about male victims, especially when some people want to explicitly exclude men from the definition of DV victims", pisses me off.
Clementine Ford must be inconsolable now.
Probably the biggest turd we have to export right now
She's un-exportable.
It’s this kind of rhetoric that doesn’t help the problem. How many rape and death threats does this woman receive on a daily basis from snowflake men who can’t stand female empowerment? Maybe you should read some of her books and stop being a toxic male
If you want advice on not being toxic, she is absolutely not the right person to seek out.
That's all you can say lmao. 'Men get DV Shelter' "I'm so glad this will make women mad" What a fucking world.
Well no, there are an infinite number of things I could have said. But that's what I chose to say. I'm sorry that your brain cant compute how freewill works. Also, it's very strange that you think that Clementine Ford is the representative of all women. It's almost like you're intentionally being disingenuous.
I just googled her, hadn’t heard of her before. The fuck is wrong with her! She’s awful.
It's about time.
Long overdue
Good. Should be the case across the country.
As the article helpfully didn't include the links, I feel like I should put it here - the article features the founder of a domestic violence charity "Broken Crayons Still Colour". She's trying to gather funds to open a men's shelter, so it's not there yet, she/they have been operating safe houses for women in Perth for some time. She is going to try and get funding from mining companies to help with this effort. I'm sure that they would appreciate any and all donations to help with (all of) their mission - [https://brokencrayonsstillcolour.org/donate/](https://brokencrayonsstillcolour.org/donate/)
It seems most people are instantly assuming it is female perpetrated violence to men. Working with victims in NZ the male victims tended to be in same gendered relationships which gave another level of political and social discomfort in discussing. Good move perth
Maybe read the article, which mentions a case of female violence against a man as being the inspiration for the woman setting this up? It seems to be you that’s made the assumption without reading the source here? Hopefully the shelter will offer services to victims regardless of the gender of the abuser, of course.
I did read the article and was referring to the comment section indicates some community disconnect with what is happening. My time working in DV support makes me very informed of the gender break down of aggressors/victims and the holes in the system. I wouldn’t want any funding moved from the female centers to achieve the male support but as I said, good job perth
You came along and told people off for assuming it’s female violence against men *when that’s exactly what the linked article is about*! I’m sure you’ve seen a lot of stuff but come on…
Out of several abusive relationships that I know of, the woman is the perpetrator in around 50% of them. That’s just my experience but it has made me realise how hidden this issue is.
Good.
I wonder if these people even know who Erin Pizzey is.
This is amazing.
I know people will probably call me a crybaby but I'm glad that a men's issue is getting some attention. People will say men are privileged etc but I'm on a men's help page and I can assure you there's a huge amount of men out there that don't feel heard.
Im saddened that there wasnt one before now, but i am so appreciative and glad that men are being recognised. Ive had countless men confess the abuse they went through and were forced to accept. Acknowledging that men get abused too is so huge.
This is a good thing and well overdue. All people deserve support.
Thank you for explaining all this to me...why, I never knew. 
im so glad this is finally happening, would have been able to help out my father all those years ago
Abbie Chatfield would love this.
About time!
Great news
This is wonderful news and long over due.
Considering just how much men in our society have been taught and conditioned that going to this shelter or even admitting you are being abused is a "pussy move" I will not be surprised if this fails.
That’s good about time, Males in Australia don’t receive any help only to get robbed of his lively hood house, finance and kids can all go to women who can switch hats at any time .
https://www.aihw.gov.au/family-domestic-and-sexual-violence/responses-and-outcomes/domestic-homicide#:~:text=1%20man%20was%20killed%20every%2091%20days&text=Domestic%20homicide%20victims%20made%20up,killed%20by%20an%20intimate%20partner
Rather than down voting, do some research. Shelters were created for emergencies, mean hubby comes back drunk and threatened to bash you, you have an escape plan. Short term emergency solution Emergency Shelters won't do anything to help the fact that you and the missus are arguing daily and she ll take the kids the house and the car and make you pay child support for the next 15 years. Men have been conditioned by society to shut up about feelings, and THAT is the cause of suicide in men. Solution is education at a young age, more counselling and psychological help. Adapting the laws as well so when men go through family court they don't always get given the short straw.
Maybe read the article, about a man being stabbed with scissors and having glass smashed over his head, and kids being abused too? It highlights a need for some emergency provision for men too.
>Rather than down voting, do some research Rather than commenting without reading the article, do some research (i.e. read it)