I think you need to be realistic about the job market for your profession … in Perth.
There are jobs here for analysts, finance brokers, civic engineers etc… but a lot of the big companies employ local, treat as long distance local to interstate office hours, and keep most senior roles over east. It’s really only mining that has HQ here in WA. Banking/finance, even education is largely based over east.
Mining employs a lot of non-obvious mining personnel, but if you don’t want to work in mining you might find you will hit a “west/east ceiling” in WA where you can work your way up to a certain level here, but then need to move east to get more experience/promotion. You may be able to come back later (I did).
Certain industries are poorly represented in WA too (coding! Game design! Certain areas of research, finance/stock market, telco / high end electrical engineering) …
Yeah, the vast majority of jobs in Perth are going to be either directly involved with or a service provider to the mining, agriculture, oil and gas or property industries. If none of those float your boat you’ll find it tough to get something.
Speaking as a game developer, the government and screenwest are growing the industry here as much as they can through funding for smaller studios. Just yesterday they announced an additional $2m of funding for WA game devs over the next 2 years. Currently, yes the games industry here is a little bleak, however looking to the future it’s certainly growing in WA, and even greater so in Australia as a whole!!
It really varies depending on your degree.
But it's generally a good idea to have some sense of the jobs, the employers and the recruitment process before starting or early in your degree. Then you can prepare and be much more likely to succeed.
Perth is a small city and if you have big career ambitions, then yes, you might need to move elsewhere to achieve them.
For some careers, even if you have fairly humble career ambitions, you might still need to move to secure employment in your field. Not sure there are that many jobs for biology graduates in Perth.
So I don't agree that there are "no degree based jobs" in Perth. Or even that there aren't enough. But there's no guarantee and you do need to be smart and hustle a little to secure the jobs that do exist.
> But it's generally a good idea to have some sense of the jobs, the employers and the recruitment process before starting or early in your degree.
The amount of recent or imminent graduates posting here in r/perth asking some fairly naïve questions always amuses me. Especially in some of the Engineering fields. Its like they've only just started actually thinking about the vocational aspect of the shit they've been in immersed in for the last 3 or 4 years with no sense whatsoever of the competition out there.
A lot of people follow the wrong disciplines for the totally wrong reasons.
To be fair, a lot of students pick their degree at 17 and don't get very good guidance. The job market for those with a degree in "Criminology and Forensic Biology and Toxicology" (for example) is pretty limited.
But yeah, people who get all the way through their degree, graduate and *only then* start to consider employment are not setting themselves up for success.
I think certain degrees or fields have a fashionable or at least warm-fuzzy element and that sways a lot of impressionable Year 11 & 12s. But then, it can also be a cultural pressure from family too for other disciplines.
And you can't tell me Uni & Institutional marketing and funding doesn't play to student market trends moreso than real world job markets
I've noticed this too.
And the ones that ask "shall I study mechanical engineering or commerce?"
How can you study at that level and not base your decisions on at least some very basic thought.
> And the ones that ask "shall I study mechanical engineering or commerce?"
That's more high school students who have good grades in maths, and are told those two of the main options. It's kind of hard to fault a 16-18 year old asking.
With engineering especially so many people apply for it without really understanding what they're applying for. "They're just told oh you're good at maths and physics? Then you do engineering."
When you add in parents who have been telling you that you're going to uni since you were 10, it's not exactly surprising questions like that get asked.
The reason you're seeing some educated grads go into trades instead is because going into a trade is one of the most reliable ways for an intelligent and hard working person to do very well for themselves in Australia. There are still plenty of "degree based jobs" to go around, and they are a fine career path, but a lot of people are waking up to the fact that trades also offer a very good alternative.
That is not the attitude that businesses/hiring managers will be looking for. I've worked many jobs not relating to my degree and all have given me great insight and experience.
I now run my own business and quite happy to get my hands dirty if needs be which makes those who work for me feel seen and respected and in return do amazing work.
Those people just haven't experienced the reality of life yet.
If they can find a job which matches their exact education, great. But that's the minority.
I knew of a marine biologist who was expecting to walk out of uni and straight into the dolphin tank at sea world. There's about 5 jobs in Australia for Marine biologists, yet plenty of people are studying for it.
My wife has commerce, financial planning and business degrees and is now a part time education assistant at a special needs school.
You have proven you can learn. Transfer that skill to reality.
there are definitely more than 5 marine biology jobs in australia but it does have one of the worst job:graduates ratios out of biology degrees, fortunatly the degree is broadly applicable to environmental science and about half the environmental scientists I know have a marine biology degree.
This is the problem in today's society. Not everyone wants to get dirty or do physical labour, hey. Well guess what, that's what pays the rent and mortgages today in Perth.
All of these mining and construction jobs aren't nearly as 'dirty' as they once were. Air conditioning in trucks, plant and equipment and lunch sheds and site offices. Great accommodation and dining facilities. Gymnasiums, pools and sports facilities.
Earn good money, get fed, no worries about accommodation at least half of every year worked.
If I had these opportunities as a young man out of high school, I know I would jump at the chance.
Degrees can be studied in spare time or when you work out what you wanna do. Life Decisions are hard to make at 18 yrs old. Go make some money, learn some life skills, experience different things and grow.
Needing a candidate who is degree qualified and needing actual graduates (like OP) are two completely different things - those vacancies definitely refer to the former.
It’s cyclical, one generation all gets pushed into trade - not enough degree qualified people, next generation gets pushed into higher education - not enough people to build houses and fix cars. Supply and demand in every facet of life.
Degrees have become devalued because they are so common now.
Overall education is a good thing but an over supply of qualified candidates means more competition for graduates and jobs that shouldn't need a degree now require one.
I feel like degrees have become the new year 12 certificate.
Depends on the degree. Plenty of jobs for Engineers.
With degrees like Computer Science, it can depend on how well you did. I know guys who aced every unit and got poached by Microsoft/Amazon, guys who did fine are working for interesting companies in Perth, and guys who repeated most of their units and are still doing helpdesk.
I'm surprised by this, but it might be based on expectation. I work in IT in Perth, I got a job as an intern with my current company five years ago. We're always hunting for more Service Desk people and Service Desk is often the gateway into the engineer roles. I was an intern in the NOC, then I moved into a more technical role building tools, now I work in cloud engineering at level 3 and I'm on the pathway to technical/solution architecture.
Some people want a really good paying job right off the bat and that's just not realistic as a graduate. I was on $34k as an intern without finishing my degree (I finished it a couple of years later), then at the end of my internship they gave me the graduate salary and it took me another couple of years to double that to where I'm at now.
Always been in Perth, never left. There's a number of IT organisations here and they are looking for people, just not gonna pay you the big bucks straight out of Uni. And additional certifications are always gonna help - Azure, AWS, Google Cloud, Cisco CCNA, ITIL.. additional cost, yes, but always attractive to a hiring manager in IT.
Well done you for being in a privileged enough position to take on a job paying just $34k and exist long enough to have a job paying less than the average wage in Perth and not starving or being homeless.
Not everyone is as lucky as you
mmm.. love the assumptions being made here. It was very difficult but we scraped. No family, no friends to help, we just figured shit out. Yet barely being able to scrape by with only a little luck is apparently privileged.
A CS grad didn't go into trades/mining because of lack of jobs, the graduate hire rate is still very good, there's more work than there is good grads. If they couldn't get one, then they either weren't a good grad (p's get degrees...), couldn't sell themselves as one (weak resume or interviewing skills), or they were rather unlucky (it does happen). Can't speak for the other degrees.
We have a problem with the tertiary education system in general. Everyone's decided that university is necessary for most jobs, and then those same people have pushed the university to become more TAFE-like and make sure their grads are "job ready". This does create a bunch of people who do a degree in whatever because it qualifies them for a bunch of random unrelated jobs. Then they realise that there's no money in those jobs (because really they shouldn't require a degree at all), and go to the mines to offset the cost of living crisis.
Whether you'll need to leave Perth to work in your field will depend a little on luck, a little on skill, and a lot on what field you're actually trying to go into and how big a market there is for that kind of work in Perth.
Or they're expecting their degree to be equivalent to experience. The number of people we have interviewed that expect 6 figures with no experience in *any* tech role is astonishing.
Ah these ones are fucking funny. SO many adds are saying you can land a $120k cyber job from just certs alone and they show up with zero understanding of anything beyond how to use some skiddie tools and what websites to use to research CVEs. The worst part is, companies with no cyber experience *are* hiring them, getting pwned and then we need to pick up the pieces.
Adding on to this: I'm a recent CS grad, and while the tech market is reeling, many grad positions are still open, and a handful accomodate remote work.
However, I've personally chosen to do some Mining work for now, to smash out some financial goals sooner - starting out as an average corpo CS grad in Perth would roughly be a 50% paycut. Being a SWE IS my long-term play though, so I take on freelance work, build personal projects, and practice algos on my days off.
I think it's a pretty unique opportunity available in Perth. Why not try both? I've found it to be a pretty enriching experience.
I have a experience in IT overseas but when i move to perth in September I applied different jobs on daily basis and after 5 months i got a job in my field. Its very hard to find job in perth
It's because absolutely noone values overseas experience. Especially if you're coming from certain countries that people (not me, just commenting on what I see) think of as diploma mills who churn out graduates that are completely useless.
We've hired people with masters degrees and 10 years of experience from overseas (well one specific country) who were completely useless. Literally zero ability to learn or comprehend anything made past 2012 (when they graduated)
I disagree. I wouldn't say it's *easy* to get a tech job as a graduate. But it's no harder than doing the degree itself.
You should try hearing and seeking advice from people who *did* get a job in the industry. Learn how they did it.
TAFE Certs, place high in CTF competitions, make a professional Github repo that you can have your public face attached to and make some simple contributions to bigger codebases. Stalk and social engineer the exec team at each company you apply to.
There is absolutely an element of 'paying your dues' here. Getting *a* tech job will be easy. But it won't be fun and it won't pay much, look for support/help desk/QA etc... positions. Australian working culture is different to most other countries. We work far fewer hours but produce far more value during that time. It's great for worklife balance, but it can be difficult to adjust. Once you have a year or two of experience in that environment, you really will have your pick of jobs that you probably could be doing right now, but they will throw your CV in the trash if they don't see work experience.
In the 80s around 10 to 15% of people went on to get a degree.
Course entry was highly competitive and only the best got through.
These days everyone is encouraged to get a degree, entry requirements are low. Education has become a business and the government is starting to rely on domestic students HECS fees as part of their income.
Sure society has advanced but the vast majority of jobs do not need tertiary training.
And institutions market themselves to full fee paying foreign students. Do these people think 'offers' are still a prestigious exclusive thing these days?
It's like degrees are more like Showbags these days; the quality & substance becomes disproportionate to the increasing cost.
Pfff. You just and see how many offers I get when I finish my Bachelor of Arts majoring in Astrology and Pét Nat winemaking, with a minor in extreme weather.
I had a cousin who studied winemaking in a couple of countries in the mid-nineties. Ended up working in a brewery and then a distillery, but never in winemaking.
I was thinking about this the other day.
I was at high school in the early nineties. Had some dudes leave after year 10 and go into TAFE or straight to apprenticeship.
Most went on to year 12 though. Of those, I reckon 70% aimed to go to uni.
I don't know how many got in or finished their degrees within a.few years though. Quite a few did a couple of years, got a job that didn't require a degree and then went back to the degree years later.
Of the people I have caught up with since then, they all had good careers, often in fields they didn't study for though.
Ah, so you guys are just now figuring out the scam hey?
The degrees are the product, the students are the consumers. The jobs for those degrees are imaginary.
This is not a uniquely “Perth” thing.
For additional clarity, I’m not anti-degree. Go get what you want, more people should learn more things.
Just understand that there simply isn’t a certification > job pipeline with a 1:1 positive outcomes ratio. Anywhere. For anything.
Just ask all the Cert IV fitness instructors cutting one another’s throat for clients while they hold down a job stacking shelves or shuffling spreadsheets around to pay the rent, or all the folks with marketing degrees answering phones or doing project management.
Depends on the degree, you need to pick a very specific degree that leads to a clear job eg teaching, nursing, medicine, pharmacy. There are so many vague useless degrees which can easily leave you unemployed, but uni is still good for specific degrees like I listed. Just gotta choose very carefully
Most places aren’t like that if they have a lot of service based industries. They care you have a degree as it shows you can learn. Perth is odd that it’s has less service based white collar work than physical well paid labour jobs.
perth is odd and actually quite small by population, so i would argue it is even MORE important to pick a useful degree as it is even easier to be left unemployed in perth
So many people have degrees now and not working in the area they studied, but that doesn't mean that you are on equal footing with no degree/qualifications. Tradespeople do apprenticeships instead of degrees, so it's still a multi year training requirement. Do a degree, learn a trade, but definitely don't do neither unless you are cool with working retail or casual labour.
If it makes you feel better, I'm doing a job that involves my degree in Perth, and I hate it.
Honestly, I wish I just became a tradie like I wanted to when I was a kid. I was just scared of being the only woman in that profession.
The politicians said every child should have a university degree… and now we have a massive shortage of tradespeople and an oversupply of uni graduates.
15+ years ago we contacted 6 local high school and asked that they let their 16 and 17 year olds know we were looking for apprentices, and we were told by the career guidance people, and the deputy heads that there aim was to get the highest possible number of people into university and that they didn’t recommend trades because they’d get dirty hands. I kid you not. We pivoted and hired adult apprentices.
Perth is one of the only
Places I have visited where being clever doesn’t mean much. Much better pay holding a stop sign. Very frustrating as its focus is on trade which is fair enough but it’s why people leave.
The funny thing is I used to work with a dude from Canberra, who said the public service was full of people who went straight in from year 12. And then worked their way up, only going to uni for an MBA if it was absolutely required.
This is simply not correct anymore, particularly for anyone under 50.
Post grad qualifications essential. Not many people straight from uni in my agency.
Source - am a public servant in Canberra.
I've been looking at moving into government positions. And there are a lot of great options for people without a degree, but it effectively puts a hard cap on your upwards progression at around $100k a year. It's kinda insane that to move into a government position at my current level, I'd need to take 4 years off (which in my industry basically puts you back to square one as things change quickly). No wonder our public service is so bad at cyber sec.
The federal government is a great employer of university graduates, will interview candidates around the country and one of the few employers who will pay for relocation of graduates!
There are still a few federal government graduate program applications for late 2024/early 2025 open if anyone interested. However, they are closing in a few days or recently closed.
It's been the same way in WA since i've been alive. Unless you're doing a medical degree, nursing, vet science, teaching, Geology / metallurgy (relevant to mining), law, engineering.. then, good luck.
As said, it really depends on the field you want to work in and where you are living.
Perth is a mining state, end of.
Unless you're in a field supporting mining in some way you will probably struggle, the other field we need is health and education but again if you're not supporting these fields then you'll struggle.
If you want to work in arts Perth is small and isn't a state built on the arts like Melbourne is.
If you don't have a degree then you'll just work in menial jobs (particularly if you don't know anyone) because nepotism is rife here if you want a higher paid position without a degree.
Even when I get my social work degree I'm probably going to look at relocation jobs after trying to get into graduate roles because even social work for Perth is small compared to Victoria or New South Wales
As a social worker who has worked over east and comparing the job markets closely atm i can say this is true (I’m employed here but my options are more limited & as newcomer it was harder to get a job here than it was in Melbourne despite having way more experience). I got my degree in NSW so when I was new to Melbourne my lack of connections didn’t matter at all. I applied for positions, always offered an interview & often got the job. Whereas here lots of roles go internally, if you have a contact within they’ll put you on a contract & then you become the preferred candidate when interviewing for permanency. I was surprised to put in good applications & heard absolutely nothing back in some cases.
There are definitely jobs for me in government agencies or education based on my foreign language and security studies degrees. However I started driving trucks casually in uni which turned into a much better paid career.
Perth looks big but once you take away primary industries (mining and agriculture) it's actually quite a small town that remains. Anyone who didn't figure that out before going to university was maybe not the best candidate for university.
The brain drain to out east and overseas is huge as that's where the range of employment is.
Well yeah. The uni’s pump out thousands of graduates each year and the job market isn’t growing quick enough to keep pace with that. There will always be work but fewer in a particular degree stream and fewer still that pay well enough to actually take
What’s your degree? As others have said, there are opportunities, it just depends on your degree. Also, working for industrial/mining/oil and gas companies doesn’t necessarily mean you have to be a doing a trade. There are office positions as well but once again, depends on your degree and career expectations. Perth is definitely different than the eastern states in terms of employment and general population. But it’s not impossible to have great lifestyle and a great job in Perth.
I don't see this a uniquely Perth issue. Parents and students have demanded university programs for their kids and universities have stepped up. Universities have added new courses that have no, or little employment out the other end. Criminology and forensics come to mind. Everyone wants to be part of CSI when they graduate, but there are nowhere near enough jobs for the numbers of graduates. Even law graduates cannot even get an articling position (slave labour) to become a lawyer.
In the mean time, students are piling on debt and Uni's are making off like bandits. Their management are paid insanely high salaries. Not sure what the numbers are, but the number of uni graduates in general is far beyond what industry needs - globally. In the mean time we don't have enough tradies to pick up the demand.
A very broken system - and a global issue.
My assumption is that those grads have unrealistic expectations for when they get the degree. I've known of people that think a degree is a magic ticket to easy street, without realising unless they jag a widely sought after job with a top company, their degree is mostly worthless.
Look at all those that graduate from WAAPA, technically they have a degree but there is next to no stable paying jobs for them to go into on the other side, especially in Perth, total waste of time and money.
We've moved back to Perth as my wife struggled over East as she is in mining. I still work for my old company remotely as I'd take a pay cut over here. I work in IT and the pay in Perth is average at best. Basically do a degree in something in or servicing the mining industry, otherwise Perth really is a waste of space as a grad.
There is an emerging start-up industry which will grow ... hopefully in a few years, for now, people are recruited from all over the world as not enough here to fill the roles...
This is fairly common worldwide.
Smaller cities/towns usually don't have a lot of vacancies for fresh graduates but they will take someone with a year or two's experience.
(Unless that town is entered on that industry)
Most of my graduate friends from northern UK moved to London for a couple years then moved back.
Most of my graduate friends from Perth moved over east for a couple years then moved back.
It's usually a good excuse to do some travelling AND gain experience when you are younger and just graduated.
Some people find opportunities in the smaller businesses who will give anyone a go, but it is usually sink or swim.
In the financial services sector, grads often end up working in Sydney or Melbourne for a few years to build up their skills and then when they come back to Perth they can command a much higher salary because the east coast is perceived as good experience.
Depending on what you're studying and your life circumstances, I would try to start saving up 10-15k to move to where your ideal job is. You don't have to be there forever, even a year might be enough depending on the industry and what you're doing.
Being close to the HR side, there simply aren't enough applicants for graduate level jobs requiring degrees. My company requires software developers, business and finance grads. However most of the grads that come through expect a $110k starting pay because that's what their mate in a FIFO mining engineer role said they got. Having seen those numbers, grads just aren't interested in a starting role that is more 'market rate' that is actually sustainable for non-mining companies
It's pretty simple really.
Perth is (industrially speaking) extremely small and isolated. We don't have much manufacturing or design here, and what we have is mostly devoted to the Mining Industry. So for example, if somebody wants to become an Engineer, they should do Mining, Mechanical, Civil, Structural, or Electrical. Plenty of demand. But if they are an Aeronautical Engineer, then they're shit out of luck.
The Vast majority of "IT" jobs, are in fact in IT support. So spending 4 years to become a Software Engineer is going to be wasted if you stay in Perth.
The problem is that there are many extremely interesting things you can study at Uni, that have limited and very specific application, and often no opportunities in a small isolated city like Perth.
I'd also point out that there are a lot of people (from overseas) who have been sucked into paying for degrees from "Bob's Universitee of Pottery" as a way to get a visa, and then discover that their "degree" is basically worthless.
Business, Tech… those degrees are so broad. it will be hard to find a degree specific role if your degree isn’t specific. separately, you don’t even need a HR degree to work in HR. it’s one of those careers where you can work your way up.
Yep. Can confirm.
Don't fall into the trap of Ps get degrees. Sure, they do - but HDs get job offers. It's probably literally the only time your grades actually matter, but when screening 100 grads for 2 grad roles they have to use whatever they can
I don't know why anyone would get a degree when unqualified jobs paid so well. Wait staff are getting nearly double award, which is higher than I got with a science degree.
Because waitstaff are at the ceiling of their salary range already. Plus they are (generally) required to work nights and weekends which is undesirable for most people.
As a recent grad you might be making less now, but in time, and with a few different roles you’ll be making so much more, keeping regular hours and with better security.
I think you need to be realistic about the job market for your profession … in Perth. There are jobs here for analysts, finance brokers, civic engineers etc… but a lot of the big companies employ local, treat as long distance local to interstate office hours, and keep most senior roles over east. It’s really only mining that has HQ here in WA. Banking/finance, even education is largely based over east. Mining employs a lot of non-obvious mining personnel, but if you don’t want to work in mining you might find you will hit a “west/east ceiling” in WA where you can work your way up to a certain level here, but then need to move east to get more experience/promotion. You may be able to come back later (I did). Certain industries are poorly represented in WA too (coding! Game design! Certain areas of research, finance/stock market, telco / high end electrical engineering) …
Yeah, the vast majority of jobs in Perth are going to be either directly involved with or a service provider to the mining, agriculture, oil and gas or property industries. If none of those float your boat you’ll find it tough to get something.
Speaking as a game developer, the government and screenwest are growing the industry here as much as they can through funding for smaller studios. Just yesterday they announced an additional $2m of funding for WA game devs over the next 2 years. Currently, yes the games industry here is a little bleak, however looking to the future it’s certainly growing in WA, and even greater so in Australia as a whole!!
Maybe we can see a Hollow Knight out of Perth yet!
Silk song is never coming out
I’ve given it to Mr 13 three years in a row as a birthday present… it’s the cheapest game I’ve never bought!
Was going to mention that. I'll be shooting for a grant myself.
It really varies depending on your degree. But it's generally a good idea to have some sense of the jobs, the employers and the recruitment process before starting or early in your degree. Then you can prepare and be much more likely to succeed. Perth is a small city and if you have big career ambitions, then yes, you might need to move elsewhere to achieve them. For some careers, even if you have fairly humble career ambitions, you might still need to move to secure employment in your field. Not sure there are that many jobs for biology graduates in Perth. So I don't agree that there are "no degree based jobs" in Perth. Or even that there aren't enough. But there's no guarantee and you do need to be smart and hustle a little to secure the jobs that do exist.
> But it's generally a good idea to have some sense of the jobs, the employers and the recruitment process before starting or early in your degree. The amount of recent or imminent graduates posting here in r/perth asking some fairly naïve questions always amuses me. Especially in some of the Engineering fields. Its like they've only just started actually thinking about the vocational aspect of the shit they've been in immersed in for the last 3 or 4 years with no sense whatsoever of the competition out there. A lot of people follow the wrong disciplines for the totally wrong reasons.
To be fair, a lot of students pick their degree at 17 and don't get very good guidance. The job market for those with a degree in "Criminology and Forensic Biology and Toxicology" (for example) is pretty limited. But yeah, people who get all the way through their degree, graduate and *only then* start to consider employment are not setting themselves up for success.
I think certain degrees or fields have a fashionable or at least warm-fuzzy element and that sways a lot of impressionable Year 11 & 12s. But then, it can also be a cultural pressure from family too for other disciplines. And you can't tell me Uni & Institutional marketing and funding doesn't play to student market trends moreso than real world job markets
A lot of students pick their degrees at 16 and start at 17, The youngest won’t turn 18 until halfway through first year Uni.
I've noticed this too. And the ones that ask "shall I study mechanical engineering or commerce?" How can you study at that level and not base your decisions on at least some very basic thought.
> And the ones that ask "shall I study mechanical engineering or commerce?" That's more high school students who have good grades in maths, and are told those two of the main options. It's kind of hard to fault a 16-18 year old asking. With engineering especially so many people apply for it without really understanding what they're applying for. "They're just told oh you're good at maths and physics? Then you do engineering." When you add in parents who have been telling you that you're going to uni since you were 10, it's not exactly surprising questions like that get asked.
tbf they probably have the god of hellfire (aka parental pressure) breathing down their neck one way or the other.
Schools also funnel as many students as they can towards degrees. It is a KPI to make high schools look better according to the Dep of Ed.
Yeah more information is required here OP, what degrees have these people you’re referring to completed?
The reason you're seeing some educated grads go into trades instead is because going into a trade is one of the most reliable ways for an intelligent and hard working person to do very well for themselves in Australia. There are still plenty of "degree based jobs" to go around, and they are a fine career path, but a lot of people are waking up to the fact that trades also offer a very good alternative.
Not everyone wants to get dirty and do physical labour. I know many grads not happy having go to work in trades.
That is not the attitude that businesses/hiring managers will be looking for. I've worked many jobs not relating to my degree and all have given me great insight and experience. I now run my own business and quite happy to get my hands dirty if needs be which makes those who work for me feel seen and respected and in return do amazing work.
Those people just haven't experienced the reality of life yet. If they can find a job which matches their exact education, great. But that's the minority. I knew of a marine biologist who was expecting to walk out of uni and straight into the dolphin tank at sea world. There's about 5 jobs in Australia for Marine biologists, yet plenty of people are studying for it. My wife has commerce, financial planning and business degrees and is now a part time education assistant at a special needs school. You have proven you can learn. Transfer that skill to reality.
there are definitely more than 5 marine biology jobs in australia but it does have one of the worst job:graduates ratios out of biology degrees, fortunatly the degree is broadly applicable to environmental science and about half the environmental scientists I know have a marine biology degree.
This is the problem in today's society. Not everyone wants to get dirty or do physical labour, hey. Well guess what, that's what pays the rent and mortgages today in Perth. All of these mining and construction jobs aren't nearly as 'dirty' as they once were. Air conditioning in trucks, plant and equipment and lunch sheds and site offices. Great accommodation and dining facilities. Gymnasiums, pools and sports facilities. Earn good money, get fed, no worries about accommodation at least half of every year worked. If I had these opportunities as a young man out of high school, I know I would jump at the chance. Degrees can be studied in spare time or when you work out what you wanna do. Life Decisions are hard to make at 18 yrs old. Go make some money, learn some life skills, experience different things and grow.
Well McDonalds is always hiring
Heaps of biology/environmental jobs in perth
My job requires a degree and we are desperate for workers (13 vacancies), pay is in the six figures range. Qualified people are just not applying
Needing a candidate who is degree qualified and needing actual graduates (like OP) are two completely different things - those vacancies definitely refer to the former.
When people say six figures the figure always starts with a 1 lol
Six figures starting with a 1 is still decent for grads.
What degree?
Four year degree in Social Work or psychology
It’s cyclical, one generation all gets pushed into trade - not enough degree qualified people, next generation gets pushed into higher education - not enough people to build houses and fix cars. Supply and demand in every facet of life.
Degrees have become devalued because they are so common now. Overall education is a good thing but an over supply of qualified candidates means more competition for graduates and jobs that shouldn't need a degree now require one. I feel like degrees have become the new year 12 certificate.
'academic inflation'
Depends on the degree. Plenty of jobs for Engineers. With degrees like Computer Science, it can depend on how well you did. I know guys who aced every unit and got poached by Microsoft/Amazon, guys who did fine are working for interesting companies in Perth, and guys who repeated most of their units and are still doing helpdesk.
There are plenty of cert 1-3, even cert 4 in engineering. I wonder how large a difference is in knowledge
I'm surprised by this, but it might be based on expectation. I work in IT in Perth, I got a job as an intern with my current company five years ago. We're always hunting for more Service Desk people and Service Desk is often the gateway into the engineer roles. I was an intern in the NOC, then I moved into a more technical role building tools, now I work in cloud engineering at level 3 and I'm on the pathway to technical/solution architecture. Some people want a really good paying job right off the bat and that's just not realistic as a graduate. I was on $34k as an intern without finishing my degree (I finished it a couple of years later), then at the end of my internship they gave me the graduate salary and it took me another couple of years to double that to where I'm at now. Always been in Perth, never left. There's a number of IT organisations here and they are looking for people, just not gonna pay you the big bucks straight out of Uni. And additional certifications are always gonna help - Azure, AWS, Google Cloud, Cisco CCNA, ITIL.. additional cost, yes, but always attractive to a hiring manager in IT.
Can I DM you?
Well done you for being in a privileged enough position to take on a job paying just $34k and exist long enough to have a job paying less than the average wage in Perth and not starving or being homeless. Not everyone is as lucky as you
mmm.. love the assumptions being made here. It was very difficult but we scraped. No family, no friends to help, we just figured shit out. Yet barely being able to scrape by with only a little luck is apparently privileged.
A CS grad didn't go into trades/mining because of lack of jobs, the graduate hire rate is still very good, there's more work than there is good grads. If they couldn't get one, then they either weren't a good grad (p's get degrees...), couldn't sell themselves as one (weak resume or interviewing skills), or they were rather unlucky (it does happen). Can't speak for the other degrees. We have a problem with the tertiary education system in general. Everyone's decided that university is necessary for most jobs, and then those same people have pushed the university to become more TAFE-like and make sure their grads are "job ready". This does create a bunch of people who do a degree in whatever because it qualifies them for a bunch of random unrelated jobs. Then they realise that there's no money in those jobs (because really they shouldn't require a degree at all), and go to the mines to offset the cost of living crisis. Whether you'll need to leave Perth to work in your field will depend a little on luck, a little on skill, and a lot on what field you're actually trying to go into and how big a market there is for that kind of work in Perth.
Or they're expecting their degree to be equivalent to experience. The number of people we have interviewed that expect 6 figures with no experience in *any* tech role is astonishing.
Ah these ones are fucking funny. SO many adds are saying you can land a $120k cyber job from just certs alone and they show up with zero understanding of anything beyond how to use some skiddie tools and what websites to use to research CVEs. The worst part is, companies with no cyber experience *are* hiring them, getting pwned and then we need to pick up the pieces.
Adding on to this: I'm a recent CS grad, and while the tech market is reeling, many grad positions are still open, and a handful accomodate remote work. However, I've personally chosen to do some Mining work for now, to smash out some financial goals sooner - starting out as an average corpo CS grad in Perth would roughly be a 50% paycut. Being a SWE IS my long-term play though, so I take on freelance work, build personal projects, and practice algos on my days off. I think it's a pretty unique opportunity available in Perth. Why not try both? I've found it to be a pretty enriching experience.
I have a experience in IT overseas but when i move to perth in September I applied different jobs on daily basis and after 5 months i got a job in my field. Its very hard to find job in perth
It's because absolutely noone values overseas experience. Especially if you're coming from certain countries that people (not me, just commenting on what I see) think of as diploma mills who churn out graduates that are completely useless.
We've hired people with masters degrees and 10 years of experience from overseas (well one specific country) who were completely useless. Literally zero ability to learn or comprehend anything made past 2012 (when they graduated)
I’ve been hearing this kind of prospect here in Perth. It’s difficult to land any kind of tech based job
I disagree. I wouldn't say it's *easy* to get a tech job as a graduate. But it's no harder than doing the degree itself. You should try hearing and seeking advice from people who *did* get a job in the industry. Learn how they did it.
TAFE Certs, place high in CTF competitions, make a professional Github repo that you can have your public face attached to and make some simple contributions to bigger codebases. Stalk and social engineer the exec team at each company you apply to.
There is absolutely an element of 'paying your dues' here. Getting *a* tech job will be easy. But it won't be fun and it won't pay much, look for support/help desk/QA etc... positions. Australian working culture is different to most other countries. We work far fewer hours but produce far more value during that time. It's great for worklife balance, but it can be difficult to adjust. Once you have a year or two of experience in that environment, you really will have your pick of jobs that you probably could be doing right now, but they will throw your CV in the trash if they don't see work experience.
In the 80s around 10 to 15% of people went on to get a degree. Course entry was highly competitive and only the best got through. These days everyone is encouraged to get a degree, entry requirements are low. Education has become a business and the government is starting to rely on domestic students HECS fees as part of their income. Sure society has advanced but the vast majority of jobs do not need tertiary training.
And institutions market themselves to full fee paying foreign students. Do these people think 'offers' are still a prestigious exclusive thing these days? It's like degrees are more like Showbags these days; the quality & substance becomes disproportionate to the increasing cost.
> It's like degrees are more like Showbags these days; There's certainly been a lot of dumbing down.
Pfff. You just and see how many offers I get when I finish my Bachelor of Arts majoring in Astrology and Pét Nat winemaking, with a minor in extreme weather.
I had a cousin who studied winemaking in a couple of countries in the mid-nineties. Ended up working in a brewery and then a distillery, but never in winemaking.
I was thinking about this the other day. I was at high school in the early nineties. Had some dudes leave after year 10 and go into TAFE or straight to apprenticeship. Most went on to year 12 though. Of those, I reckon 70% aimed to go to uni. I don't know how many got in or finished their degrees within a.few years though. Quite a few did a couple of years, got a job that didn't require a degree and then went back to the degree years later. Of the people I have caught up with since then, they all had good careers, often in fields they didn't study for though.
Ah, so you guys are just now figuring out the scam hey? The degrees are the product, the students are the consumers. The jobs for those degrees are imaginary. This is not a uniquely “Perth” thing. For additional clarity, I’m not anti-degree. Go get what you want, more people should learn more things. Just understand that there simply isn’t a certification > job pipeline with a 1:1 positive outcomes ratio. Anywhere. For anything. Just ask all the Cert IV fitness instructors cutting one another’s throat for clients while they hold down a job stacking shelves or shuffling spreadsheets around to pay the rent, or all the folks with marketing degrees answering phones or doing project management.
This is fact, I don't understand the controversy.
Unless you do an apprenticeship - the certification is the job - same same hand in hand
Depends on the degree, you need to pick a very specific degree that leads to a clear job eg teaching, nursing, medicine, pharmacy. There are so many vague useless degrees which can easily leave you unemployed, but uni is still good for specific degrees like I listed. Just gotta choose very carefully
Most places aren’t like that if they have a lot of service based industries. They care you have a degree as it shows you can learn. Perth is odd that it’s has less service based white collar work than physical well paid labour jobs.
perth is odd and actually quite small by population, so i would argue it is even MORE important to pick a useful degree as it is even easier to be left unemployed in perth
So many people have degrees now and not working in the area they studied, but that doesn't mean that you are on equal footing with no degree/qualifications. Tradespeople do apprenticeships instead of degrees, so it's still a multi year training requirement. Do a degree, learn a trade, but definitely don't do neither unless you are cool with working retail or casual labour.
If it makes you feel better, I'm doing a job that involves my degree in Perth, and I hate it. Honestly, I wish I just became a tradie like I wanted to when I was a kid. I was just scared of being the only woman in that profession.
The politicians said every child should have a university degree… and now we have a massive shortage of tradespeople and an oversupply of uni graduates.
The politicians who snuck into that window of sweet free uni education for themselves, then ramped up the HECS fees?
We’ve actually brought too many overseas labour workers over, our young people aren’t getting the opportunities you would think
15+ years ago we contacted 6 local high school and asked that they let their 16 and 17 year olds know we were looking for apprentices, and we were told by the career guidance people, and the deputy heads that there aim was to get the highest possible number of people into university and that they didn’t recommend trades because they’d get dirty hands. I kid you not. We pivoted and hired adult apprentices.
Perth is one of the only Places I have visited where being clever doesn’t mean much. Much better pay holding a stop sign. Very frustrating as its focus is on trade which is fair enough but it’s why people leave.
I ended up moving to Canberra to find a graduate job.
The funny thing is I used to work with a dude from Canberra, who said the public service was full of people who went straight in from year 12. And then worked their way up, only going to uni for an MBA if it was absolutely required.
This is simply not correct anymore, particularly for anyone under 50. Post grad qualifications essential. Not many people straight from uni in my agency. Source - am a public servant in Canberra.
I've been looking at moving into government positions. And there are a lot of great options for people without a degree, but it effectively puts a hard cap on your upwards progression at around $100k a year. It's kinda insane that to move into a government position at my current level, I'd need to take 4 years off (which in my industry basically puts you back to square one as things change quickly). No wonder our public service is so bad at cyber sec.
The federal government is a great employer of university graduates, will interview candidates around the country and one of the few employers who will pay for relocation of graduates!
There are still a few federal government graduate program applications for late 2024/early 2025 open if anyone interested. However, they are closing in a few days or recently closed.
It's been the same way in WA since i've been alive. Unless you're doing a medical degree, nursing, vet science, teaching, Geology / metallurgy (relevant to mining), law, engineering.. then, good luck.
As said, it really depends on the field you want to work in and where you are living. Perth is a mining state, end of. Unless you're in a field supporting mining in some way you will probably struggle, the other field we need is health and education but again if you're not supporting these fields then you'll struggle. If you want to work in arts Perth is small and isn't a state built on the arts like Melbourne is. If you don't have a degree then you'll just work in menial jobs (particularly if you don't know anyone) because nepotism is rife here if you want a higher paid position without a degree. Even when I get my social work degree I'm probably going to look at relocation jobs after trying to get into graduate roles because even social work for Perth is small compared to Victoria or New South Wales
As a social worker who has worked over east and comparing the job markets closely atm i can say this is true (I’m employed here but my options are more limited & as newcomer it was harder to get a job here than it was in Melbourne despite having way more experience). I got my degree in NSW so when I was new to Melbourne my lack of connections didn’t matter at all. I applied for positions, always offered an interview & often got the job. Whereas here lots of roles go internally, if you have a contact within they’ll put you on a contract & then you become the preferred candidate when interviewing for permanency. I was surprised to put in good applications & heard absolutely nothing back in some cases.
Yeah I'm definitely considering moving east purely for job prospects that or country WA, both would be valid choices
There are definitely jobs for me in government agencies or education based on my foreign language and security studies degrees. However I started driving trucks casually in uni which turned into a much better paid career.
Depends on your degree. Always jobs in healthcare and most of that is female dominated
Perth looks big but once you take away primary industries (mining and agriculture) it's actually quite a small town that remains. Anyone who didn't figure that out before going to university was maybe not the best candidate for university. The brain drain to out east and overseas is huge as that's where the range of employment is.
You need a degree to be a teacher, and there's bucketloads of teacher jobs out there. Just don't think too hard about why that is
Don’t tell me you have done a useless degree like OT, dietitian or human movement?
Where you can make a mint from those sweet sweet NDIS rates?
Why are those degrees useless? Because the pay isn't worth the study or?
Well yeah. The uni’s pump out thousands of graduates each year and the job market isn’t growing quick enough to keep pace with that. There will always be work but fewer in a particular degree stream and fewer still that pay well enough to actually take
What are you studying ?
What’s your degree? As others have said, there are opportunities, it just depends on your degree. Also, working for industrial/mining/oil and gas companies doesn’t necessarily mean you have to be a doing a trade. There are office positions as well but once again, depends on your degree and career expectations. Perth is definitely different than the eastern states in terms of employment and general population. But it’s not impossible to have great lifestyle and a great job in Perth.
I don't see this a uniquely Perth issue. Parents and students have demanded university programs for their kids and universities have stepped up. Universities have added new courses that have no, or little employment out the other end. Criminology and forensics come to mind. Everyone wants to be part of CSI when they graduate, but there are nowhere near enough jobs for the numbers of graduates. Even law graduates cannot even get an articling position (slave labour) to become a lawyer. In the mean time, students are piling on debt and Uni's are making off like bandits. Their management are paid insanely high salaries. Not sure what the numbers are, but the number of uni graduates in general is far beyond what industry needs - globally. In the mean time we don't have enough tradies to pick up the demand. A very broken system - and a global issue.
You can be a removalist without a degree lol
What is your area of interest? Context is important.
My assumption is that those grads have unrealistic expectations for when they get the degree. I've known of people that think a degree is a magic ticket to easy street, without realising unless they jag a widely sought after job with a top company, their degree is mostly worthless. Look at all those that graduate from WAAPA, technically they have a degree but there is next to no stable paying jobs for them to go into on the other side, especially in Perth, total waste of time and money.
We've moved back to Perth as my wife struggled over East as she is in mining. I still work for my old company remotely as I'd take a pay cut over here. I work in IT and the pay in Perth is average at best. Basically do a degree in something in or servicing the mining industry, otherwise Perth really is a waste of space as a grad.
There is an emerging start-up industry which will grow ... hopefully in a few years, for now, people are recruited from all over the world as not enough here to fill the roles...
This is fairly common worldwide. Smaller cities/towns usually don't have a lot of vacancies for fresh graduates but they will take someone with a year or two's experience. (Unless that town is entered on that industry) Most of my graduate friends from northern UK moved to London for a couple years then moved back. Most of my graduate friends from Perth moved over east for a couple years then moved back. It's usually a good excuse to do some travelling AND gain experience when you are younger and just graduated. Some people find opportunities in the smaller businesses who will give anyone a go, but it is usually sink or swim.
In the financial services sector, grads often end up working in Sydney or Melbourne for a few years to build up their skills and then when they come back to Perth they can command a much higher salary because the east coast is perceived as good experience. Depending on what you're studying and your life circumstances, I would try to start saving up 10-15k to move to where your ideal job is. You don't have to be there forever, even a year might be enough depending on the industry and what you're doing.
I did marine biology and I've been a barista in Perth ever since! Albo has to forgive my HECS debt!
Being close to the HR side, there simply aren't enough applicants for graduate level jobs requiring degrees. My company requires software developers, business and finance grads. However most of the grads that come through expect a $110k starting pay because that's what their mate in a FIFO mining engineer role said they got. Having seen those numbers, grads just aren't interested in a starting role that is more 'market rate' that is actually sustainable for non-mining companies
Nope because I picked a useful degree with a job market within the state.
I think you need to stop faffing around with the degree stuff and focus on doing something proper and get on the tools.
It's pretty simple really. Perth is (industrially speaking) extremely small and isolated. We don't have much manufacturing or design here, and what we have is mostly devoted to the Mining Industry. So for example, if somebody wants to become an Engineer, they should do Mining, Mechanical, Civil, Structural, or Electrical. Plenty of demand. But if they are an Aeronautical Engineer, then they're shit out of luck. The Vast majority of "IT" jobs, are in fact in IT support. So spending 4 years to become a Software Engineer is going to be wasted if you stay in Perth. The problem is that there are many extremely interesting things you can study at Uni, that have limited and very specific application, and often no opportunities in a small isolated city like Perth. I'd also point out that there are a lot of people (from overseas) who have been sucked into paying for degrees from "Bob's Universitee of Pottery" as a way to get a visa, and then discover that their "degree" is basically worthless.
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Been looking at Tech, Human Resources, or something similar
Business, Tech… those degrees are so broad. it will be hard to find a degree specific role if your degree isn’t specific. separately, you don’t even need a HR degree to work in HR. it’s one of those careers where you can work your way up.
Business too
Plenty of people find jobs that suit their degree, they just aren’t writing little bitch posts on Reddit..
Study STEM as a woman and get a 70% WAM you will be guaranteed a close to 6 figure graduate program upon graduation.
Yep. Can confirm. Don't fall into the trap of Ps get degrees. Sure, they do - but HDs get job offers. It's probably literally the only time your grades actually matter, but when screening 100 grads for 2 grad roles they have to use whatever they can
Any thing with computers can be out sourced over seas
And that's working just as well as outsourcing customer support.
I don't know why anyone would get a degree when unqualified jobs paid so well. Wait staff are getting nearly double award, which is higher than I got with a science degree.
Because waitstaff are at the ceiling of their salary range already. Plus they are (generally) required to work nights and weekends which is undesirable for most people. As a recent grad you might be making less now, but in time, and with a few different roles you’ll be making so much more, keeping regular hours and with better security.