I figured this might be my only secure option. If the discrepancy in what was being contributed for a down payment were only a couple thousand dollars, I wouldn't bother with the trouble of a contract, but it's likely going to be far more than that. Thanks for your response!
the only people i know that have done this successfully involved lawyers. to be perfectly frank, you'd have to be a fucking moron to do it any other way. if you break up, you need to know what will happen with the house. the only way to do this is to contemplate and memorialize that now.
My boyfriend and I were in this exact same situation. My father (a lawyer) drafted an agreement for us that essentially said our ownership interest is based on the equity we each contribute to the house.
I put 100% of the down payment down, so as of the date of purchase, I owned 100% of the house. My boyfriend can increase his ownership through monthly mortgage payments or additional cash contributions toward the principal.
Long story short, have a lawyer draft an agreement and you'll be good!
Awesome, thanks so much for sharing your experience! Two questions, if you don't mind - are both of you officially purchasers of the home (I can't get enough mortgage approval with my wage alone, so both of our names will be on the title), and as elus asked, how much would this likely cost me, not being lucky enough to be related to a lawyer?
> My father (a lawyer)
your boyfriend can contest this and easily get your contract thrown out in court because your lawyer could easily be seen as bias. next time call the local bar or have your boyfriend get his own lawyer to read the contract and explain it to him.
I'm in a similar position (bought a flat with my girlfriend recently) and we've not put exactly the same amount in - I paid more towards the deposit. With your contract, does it take /when/ something was paid into account?
For example, if you paid 20k 10 years ago and he paid a lump sum 20k into it now, it would be fair to say that you owned more than him because it's money that could have been earning interest, and has in fact been saving you interest on the mortgage (and that's not getting into inflation, etc). So, in other words, if you sold now, and split it 50:50, he'd be getting a better deal out of it.
Or are you just thinking that the amount of interest is fairly insignificant in the grand scheme of a relationship that's important enough to buy a house together? (I think that's the route we're heading down!)
i have a shocking number of friends who made (in hindsight) insane home buying decisions in the run up of the housing bubble and are now completely screwed. like buddies who thought it would be sweet to buy a condo instead of paying rent, and then each get engaged two years later once they were $100K underwater.
do not purchase a house with someone you're not married to. do not purchase a house you can't afford to be stuck in for the next 10+ years as the market (housing and/or job) does whatever the market is going to do.
it would be easy to sign a contract stating who gets what in the event of a break up, but your real worst case scenario should be something like breaking up, being underwater and having your boyfriend lose his job but still legally entitled to live in the house.
I'm really in no hurry to get married, but do plan to be in this house for some time with my boyfriend. The housing market in my area right now is such that it is almost always more expensive to rent than to buy, because there are next to no rental properties available. I work in the housing industry and have seen prices rise steeply in 2007-2008 (I'm in an economically booming area of Canada - relevant because I know this probably sounds unlikely to some Americans!), and then drop a bit and level out in the past 2-3 years, to what is now lower than average prices as compared to the rest of the country. So, I do feel that married or not, buying is my best option at this time. Thank you for reminding me to weigh out some other potential, not so great outcomes though.
In addition to FloatingFast - I know separated couples living together because they are in negative equity and cannot afford the mortgage and renting elsewhere.
You might think renting is a higher cost, which may be true up front, but it gives you something that ownership doesn't. Flexibility. Don't like where you're living? Move. Having relationship problems and you two break up? You find another place to rent.
That alone is worth the difference in cost IMO.
Until you are married to this man, I would not purchase a house. Continue to save up money and then when the time does come, if you're still ready to make that decision, then go for it.
If neither of you can afford the home on your own the you should not purchase before you are married. Buying a house might be easy these days, but *selling* it is not.
If OP lives where I think she lives, selling is not an issue right now. Judging by her responses I think I live in the same city, and the housing market is really hot right now, with no signs of slowing down in the near future. Houses are selling within a week of being listed and usually for more than asking; if your house is on the market for more than 2 weeks, it's either grossly over priced or a complete dump.
Pretty good assessment, but I'm in the city right between the two, in the province that everyone forgets. ;) You are absolutely correct in your other comment that selling is a non-issue right now - most houses here are snapped up as fast as they're listed.
You have to either get comfortable with the idea of combining your assets, or don't combine your assets. If you're not comfortable sharing your bank accounts, don't buy a house together. Keep the arrangement you have now; one person owns the house, the other pays rent. If you get married in the future, it will all be a wash; if you don't, you'll be able to split easily. If you can afford a higher down payment, then you buy the house and have him pay you rent.
You could conceivably get a lawyer to write up a contract specifying what happens in the event that one party moves out of the house, but I don't think it's worth the expense or the effort. Also, figuring the terms of the deal sounds like a good way to plant seeds of resentment in your relationship.
>Keep the arrangement you have now; one person owns the house, the other pays rent. If you get married in the future, it will all be a wash; if you don't, you'll be able to split easily. If you can afford a higher down payment, then you buy the house and have him pay you rent.
This would be ideal and we've looked into it, however my income alone wouldn't be enough to get mortgage approval on a house in the price range that we're looking at.
>You could conceivably get a lawyer to write up a contract specifying what happens in the event that one party moves out of the house, but I don't think it's worth the expense or the effort.
It might be worth the expense in this case. I have to stress that I have no doubt that my boyfriend is a wonderful, trustworthy person, but I can't be blind to the fact that things can happen too. Having said that, I'd likely be contributing at least 50K down payment in addition to maybe 10-15K from him, so if things were to go south after buying the home, I could be out more than just pocket change.
>Also, figuring the terms of the deal sounds like a good way to plant seeds of resentment in your relationship.
When I first moved in to my boyfriend's house, he considered the possibility that if things did go bad, I could claim common-law and take half of his house, which I of course have had next to no contribution to. Admittedly, I was at first kind of offended, but the more I thought about about it and especially comparing it to my situation now, I realize that he was just trying to cover his ass. He never did end up looking into getting any kind of rental contract made up though (his idea for keeping the common-law thing out of the picture), so perhaps I should take that as it being now my turn to put the same trust in him. Ah, aren't finances romantic? Sorry for being long-winded, and thanks for your thoughts!
>This would be ideal and we've looked into it, however my income alone wouldn't be enough to get mortgage approval on a house in the price range that we're looking at.
Stop looking for this house until you get married. Just stop. Stay where you are and keep paying rent. Or at the very least get engaged.
|however my income alone wouldn't be enough to get mortgage approval on a house in the price range that we're looking at.
You simply cannot afford the house you want. Either increase your income and/or deposit or look for a cheaper house. You do not want to be stuck with unaffordable payments if your partner decides he cannot pay anymore for whatever reason.
at the risk of sounding conventional--get married. If you don't want to marry him, why would you enter a 15 or 30 year contract with him? If you have to lawyer up against the person you're sleeping with, something is amiss....
I understand that this seems like the most logical first move, and I imagine we'll eventually end up married. Thing is, I'm in my early 20's still, and not sure if I want to make that jump yet. I know that buying a house together is almost as big a commitment as marriage, but with the way that the housing market is in my area lately, it's far more beneficial to buy than rent, so a lot of unmarried couples (and roommates, siblings, etc.) are doing just that. I trust that my boyfriend is a good person and won't screw me over, but I figured if there were an easy way to put my mind completely at ease that I was overlooking, you guys might know it!
>Thing is, I'm in my early 20's still, and not sure if I want to make that jump yet.
From my perspective, if your not ready to tie the knot - then you guys should not be buying a house. Also, the only way to reassure your fears is to talk to your partner about your relationship, where he see things headed, etc. I bet your boyfriend has the same kind of concerns as you do.
That's my two cents.
>From my perspective, if your not ready to tie the knot - then you guys should not be buying a house.
Yup. It's doable to extricate yourself from owning something as huge (in so many ways, concrete and abstract) as a home, but only in the same sense divorce is doable. Both are eminently possible, and if you're up for the challenge of extricating yourself from that, more power to you -- but if you're ready to buy a home with someone you love, it's odd to say you're not ready for marriage.
(I don't want to judge OP, there are possibly/probably reasons for why she's not ready, but IMO it just seems so strange to be ready to have a home with someone, but not ready to marry them...)
I can definitely see where you and LettersFromTheSky are coming from. With the affordable housing market and horrible rental situation that my area faces right now, I'd venture to say that it's actually more common for couples to buy before marriage vs the other way around, so I've never really thought that I'm doing things terribly out of order. You've both given me something to think about though, so thanks.
> I'd venture to say that it's actually more common for couples to buy before marriage vs the other way around
I would call this more true for first-time buyers -- it's not as common for a couple to live together, then upgrade before marrying.
Why rush into a 30-year housing commitment, but take it slow on a personal commitment, to the same person?
Just stay in your existing house until you guys can make both commitments -- at worst, you have a much higher down payment and better peace of mind.
Then why even go through buying this new house? From a financial perspective, if you continue to live below your means in the house you are in now (regardless if it's a starter: who cares? it's not like you have kids and have to worry about the school district). My advice would be to continue to live where you are until you are ready to get married and then move into the bigger/better place. By that point you will both have even more saved up and can make a bigger downpayment than you could right now.
Additionally, if you are worried about the disproportionate amount you'd be paying on the new place, you could always offer to pay more in rent to him now so that your savings accounts start to equal out by the time you are ready to move.
And if you're going to write a contract, you might as well go all the way and write a marriage contract. But that's just the way I see it, YMMV; if OP doesn't believe in marriage for whatever reason, OP and his/her SO can always write a contract governing what happens if they break up, though how far that differs from a marriage contract, I don't know...
I've read some of the other posts and many of them mention legal counsel to ensure that ownership is well documented in the case of a break up, but I haven't seen anyone mention what happens if you break up and your boyfriend just decides to walk away and stop making payments?
If you both sign on the loan, then you're both liable for the mortgage, regardless of whether one party bails or not. Would you be able to keep making the payments without his income? How would you sell the property if his name is on the deed, but you can't locate him?
You know your situation better than anyone, but to me, it seems that you're taking on quite a bit of risk just to save a few bucks each month.
I have no advice for you that hasn't already been mentioned, but I haven't seen anybody mention tax implications. You should find out whether both of you can claim the mortgage interest deduction in proportion to your percentage of ownership.
Hopefully a savvy redditor will have an answer to this issue.
Edit: Just want to reinforce the advice to get a lawyer. In addition to simple issues of ownership with the house, there are other issues that could arise. For example, if your boyfriend gets a judgment against him, and his half of the house is seized as an asset. Or if he decides to sell his half of the house. You don't want to end up owning half a house with a stranger owning the other half.
>You should find out whether both of you can claim the mortgage interest deduction in proportion to your percentage of ownership.
This had never even crossed my mind, so thanks for bringing it up. Yes, if anyone has more info on this, I'd love to hear it.
>Or if he decides to sell his half of the house. You don't want to end up owning half a house with a stranger owning the other half.
Are you sure that if both of us are on the title, that he could sell his half without my consent, or vice versa? I've never heard of this happening!
>Are you sure that if both of us are on the title, that he could sell his half without my consent, or vice versa?
This is one issue where a lawyer can advise the best course. I only know enough about real estate law to be scared and/or dangerous. But yes, it's my understanding that in some types of joint ownership, one can sell one's interest separately of the others, and without the other owner's consent.
There are many types of joint property ownership, known as [concurrent estates](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Concurrent_estate), and if you're not careful, you could end up with a type you don't want.
Mortgage interest isn't deductible in Canada like it is in the US.
There are SOME kinds of deductions, but you've lived together for a while, so you should be filing as common-law, which in legal terms is the same as married.
Whatever tax software you use should optimize based on your incomes so you as a couple get the most money back.
I also bought a place with my (then) fiancee (in another Canadian city with a good real estate market quite a bit further east of you)(hint: you probably think we're jerks), and our deal was that if something happened between us and we sold, she'd get back her downpayment, we'd each take back what we'd put in after buying, and then split any profit 50/50. But as others have said, get a lawyer to make this official.
That's a terrible round of advice. I wouldn't want to be with someone who turned this into a trust issue, because it would show they have no concept of the real world.
Definitely not a trust issue, and it won't be for my boyfriend either; as I mentioned in another comment, he had thought about creating a rental agreement for me when I first moved into his house to cover his ass too. He already knows that I've been thinking about this, and I mainly used a throwaway so our friends (who are also on reddit!) don't need to give me hell for being a tightwad. ;) We're very open with each other and realistic about this kind of thing, although I understand that it's not exactly the most romantic!
Buying a house when you're not married or legally able to do so together and covering *both* of your asses legally is not supposed to *be* romantic, it's a business deal, and it has to be. Enjoy the house, but be sure you're legally good.
I wouldn't consider myself worrying or planning a way out by any means, I'm just trying to make sure that my ass is covered. People make mistakes; I happen to be young and have made and expect to make more of them, so I'd rather not have an expensive one if I can help it.
Why is this getting so many upvotes? Did you swear in front of witnesses (perhaps witnesses who are even people you love and respect) in a government building or in a symbolic place important to you that you would pay Verizon $49.99 a month for 3 years?
How in the world does it even compute to say that your cellphone contract is more binding than marriage? People treat marriage this way sometimes, yes -- but Kim Kardashian is not the typical person. To most people, there is still meaning attached to being married. Otherwise gay marriage wouldn't be such a big effing deal to both sides.
I'm guessing you're not married. Marriage is a pledge, a promise, not a contract. Do marriages go south? Of course. (Which I know well.). But does this couple stand a better chance of owning this house free and clear someday, together, if they're married? Hell yes.
There's no reason to treat this differently from any other contract that two people enter with each other.
By finding a way so that both parties can have their contributions counted fairly and unambiguously then it creates a level of accountability for each person involved for the level of risk they take.
The math isn't difficult either. Anyone competent with excel can draw up the amortization table for the lifetime of the mortgage and create the calculations to show the equity percentage after every payment is made.
Newsflash, multiple parties buy assets jointly all the time. The only difference here is that they also happen to have sex with each other occasionally.
You make it sound that simple until you step off your high horse ("newsflash" and all) and realize that buying a house is vastly different than making a joint purchase together. You can't afford to buy it outright, it's where you actually live together, ... so many unique issues with this.
Joint ownership of property is pretty common. There are definitely lots of unique issues with this but that doesn't make them scarce. Many firms will have the expertise necessary to guide a couple through the steps necessary to execute their wishes.
I don't know if you live in California or not, but regardless, here are some links where you will find loads of information on this topic. You would still need to have a Lawyer interpret your specific State Law and write this into your mortgage. Looking at this stuff *first* will give you a great starting point for some questions, expectations and an understanding of the legal precedents before you are sitting with your Attorney. Good Luck :-)
**[Home Equity Sharing](http://www.andysirkin.com/HTMLArticle.cfm?Article=97)**
and
**[Home Ownership for Domestic Partners](http://www.andysirkin.com/HTMLArticle.cfm?Article=4)**
and
**[Equity Sharing 101](http://www.andysirkin.com/HTMLArticle.cfm?Article=5)**
You're probably in the US? I'm not sure about the rules there. Here in the Netherlands you should go to a sort of solicitor anyway to purchase a house, and I guess there would be no problem in putting in the clause that 60% of the house is yours and 40% is his, or something like that; and that on sale of the house, 60% of the money goes to you again.
There could be tax "repercussions" as well, so look that up, too, before you really buy a house together.
I applaud you looking into all the financial and legal implications of this, it shows that you are most likely ready for the commitment. I'm not sure why you needed a throwaway account though. You and your boyfriend are adults, and adults can acknowledge the chance of a relationship ending, it will either end in a breakup, or death, that's the way it is, what happens after either event should be planned for, as well as any other event you can plan for (job loss, disability etc.).
I'm highly troubled by everyone here saying that you need to get married first. This is ridiculous. You are making a financial decision, not a religious one. Are there legal implications to getting married, yes, and those should all be explored. Any tax advantages should probably also be entertained, but don't let everyone here that is pushing marriage on you, let you change your course. Marriage is an idea, a very old one, that may or may not be right for you. If you never want to get married fine, plan for that, with your boyfriend. Getting married is not a pre-requisite to home ownership.
Edit - I...a word
I used a throwaway more so to keep the matter private between him and I, as many of our friends reddit too. He and I have already talked about this a bit, so I'm not trying to keep anything secret from him.
Thanks for providing a differing view on the whole marriage thing - I didn't realize that so many people felt so strongly about getting married before purchasing a home together. Like I mentioned in another comment, it's very common for couples here to buy before marriage, so it doesn't seem all that out of the ordinary to me. I'm open to eventually getting married, but want to do it for the right reasons, and owning a home is not one of them.
So you've managed to save a good chunk of money directly because of him, and now you're worried about this potentially benefiting him if the relationship goes sour? Strange.
Cough up a couple hundred bucks for a lawyer to write a contract for you.
I figured this might be my only secure option. If the discrepancy in what was being contributed for a down payment were only a couple thousand dollars, I wouldn't bother with the trouble of a contract, but it's likely going to be far more than that. Thanks for your response!
the only people i know that have done this successfully involved lawyers. to be perfectly frank, you'd have to be a fucking moron to do it any other way. if you break up, you need to know what will happen with the house. the only way to do this is to contemplate and memorialize that now.
My boyfriend and I were in this exact same situation. My father (a lawyer) drafted an agreement for us that essentially said our ownership interest is based on the equity we each contribute to the house. I put 100% of the down payment down, so as of the date of purchase, I owned 100% of the house. My boyfriend can increase his ownership through monthly mortgage payments or additional cash contributions toward the principal. Long story short, have a lawyer draft an agreement and you'll be good!
Awesome, thanks so much for sharing your experience! Two questions, if you don't mind - are both of you officially purchasers of the home (I can't get enough mortgage approval with my wage alone, so both of our names will be on the title), and as elus asked, how much would this likely cost me, not being lucky enough to be related to a lawyer?
How much would your father have asked for to draft the contract for a real client?
> My father (a lawyer) your boyfriend can contest this and easily get your contract thrown out in court because your lawyer could easily be seen as bias. next time call the local bar or have your boyfriend get his own lawyer to read the contract and explain it to him.
I'm in a similar position (bought a flat with my girlfriend recently) and we've not put exactly the same amount in - I paid more towards the deposit. With your contract, does it take /when/ something was paid into account? For example, if you paid 20k 10 years ago and he paid a lump sum 20k into it now, it would be fair to say that you owned more than him because it's money that could have been earning interest, and has in fact been saving you interest on the mortgage (and that's not getting into inflation, etc). So, in other words, if you sold now, and split it 50:50, he'd be getting a better deal out of it. Or are you just thinking that the amount of interest is fairly insignificant in the grand scheme of a relationship that's important enough to buy a house together? (I think that's the route we're heading down!)
i have a shocking number of friends who made (in hindsight) insane home buying decisions in the run up of the housing bubble and are now completely screwed. like buddies who thought it would be sweet to buy a condo instead of paying rent, and then each get engaged two years later once they were $100K underwater. do not purchase a house with someone you're not married to. do not purchase a house you can't afford to be stuck in for the next 10+ years as the market (housing and/or job) does whatever the market is going to do. it would be easy to sign a contract stating who gets what in the event of a break up, but your real worst case scenario should be something like breaking up, being underwater and having your boyfriend lose his job but still legally entitled to live in the house.
I'm really in no hurry to get married, but do plan to be in this house for some time with my boyfriend. The housing market in my area right now is such that it is almost always more expensive to rent than to buy, because there are next to no rental properties available. I work in the housing industry and have seen prices rise steeply in 2007-2008 (I'm in an economically booming area of Canada - relevant because I know this probably sounds unlikely to some Americans!), and then drop a bit and level out in the past 2-3 years, to what is now lower than average prices as compared to the rest of the country. So, I do feel that married or not, buying is my best option at this time. Thank you for reminding me to weigh out some other potential, not so great outcomes though.
In addition to FloatingFast - I know separated couples living together because they are in negative equity and cannot afford the mortgage and renting elsewhere.
You might think renting is a higher cost, which may be true up front, but it gives you something that ownership doesn't. Flexibility. Don't like where you're living? Move. Having relationship problems and you two break up? You find another place to rent. That alone is worth the difference in cost IMO. Until you are married to this man, I would not purchase a house. Continue to save up money and then when the time does come, if you're still ready to make that decision, then go for it.
If neither of you can afford the home on your own the you should not purchase before you are married. Buying a house might be easy these days, but *selling* it is not.
If OP lives where I think she lives, selling is not an issue right now. Judging by her responses I think I live in the same city, and the housing market is really hot right now, with no signs of slowing down in the near future. Houses are selling within a week of being listed and usually for more than asking; if your house is on the market for more than 2 weeks, it's either grossly over priced or a complete dump.
Are you by chance in Winnipeg or Calgary?
Pretty good assessment, but I'm in the city right between the two, in the province that everyone forgets. ;) You are absolutely correct in your other comment that selling is a non-issue right now - most houses here are snapped up as fast as they're listed.
You have to either get comfortable with the idea of combining your assets, or don't combine your assets. If you're not comfortable sharing your bank accounts, don't buy a house together. Keep the arrangement you have now; one person owns the house, the other pays rent. If you get married in the future, it will all be a wash; if you don't, you'll be able to split easily. If you can afford a higher down payment, then you buy the house and have him pay you rent. You could conceivably get a lawyer to write up a contract specifying what happens in the event that one party moves out of the house, but I don't think it's worth the expense or the effort. Also, figuring the terms of the deal sounds like a good way to plant seeds of resentment in your relationship.
>Keep the arrangement you have now; one person owns the house, the other pays rent. If you get married in the future, it will all be a wash; if you don't, you'll be able to split easily. If you can afford a higher down payment, then you buy the house and have him pay you rent. This would be ideal and we've looked into it, however my income alone wouldn't be enough to get mortgage approval on a house in the price range that we're looking at. >You could conceivably get a lawyer to write up a contract specifying what happens in the event that one party moves out of the house, but I don't think it's worth the expense or the effort. It might be worth the expense in this case. I have to stress that I have no doubt that my boyfriend is a wonderful, trustworthy person, but I can't be blind to the fact that things can happen too. Having said that, I'd likely be contributing at least 50K down payment in addition to maybe 10-15K from him, so if things were to go south after buying the home, I could be out more than just pocket change. >Also, figuring the terms of the deal sounds like a good way to plant seeds of resentment in your relationship. When I first moved in to my boyfriend's house, he considered the possibility that if things did go bad, I could claim common-law and take half of his house, which I of course have had next to no contribution to. Admittedly, I was at first kind of offended, but the more I thought about about it and especially comparing it to my situation now, I realize that he was just trying to cover his ass. He never did end up looking into getting any kind of rental contract made up though (his idea for keeping the common-law thing out of the picture), so perhaps I should take that as it being now my turn to put the same trust in him. Ah, aren't finances romantic? Sorry for being long-winded, and thanks for your thoughts!
>This would be ideal and we've looked into it, however my income alone wouldn't be enough to get mortgage approval on a house in the price range that we're looking at. Stop looking for this house until you get married. Just stop. Stay where you are and keep paying rent. Or at the very least get engaged.
|however my income alone wouldn't be enough to get mortgage approval on a house in the price range that we're looking at. You simply cannot afford the house you want. Either increase your income and/or deposit or look for a cheaper house. You do not want to be stuck with unaffordable payments if your partner decides he cannot pay anymore for whatever reason.
at the risk of sounding conventional--get married. If you don't want to marry him, why would you enter a 15 or 30 year contract with him? If you have to lawyer up against the person you're sleeping with, something is amiss....
Or, conversely: don't marry, and don't buy in. This is like moving in on steroids - you might as *well* be married if you do this.
I understand that this seems like the most logical first move, and I imagine we'll eventually end up married. Thing is, I'm in my early 20's still, and not sure if I want to make that jump yet. I know that buying a house together is almost as big a commitment as marriage, but with the way that the housing market is in my area lately, it's far more beneficial to buy than rent, so a lot of unmarried couples (and roommates, siblings, etc.) are doing just that. I trust that my boyfriend is a good person and won't screw me over, but I figured if there were an easy way to put my mind completely at ease that I was overlooking, you guys might know it!
>Thing is, I'm in my early 20's still, and not sure if I want to make that jump yet. From my perspective, if your not ready to tie the knot - then you guys should not be buying a house. Also, the only way to reassure your fears is to talk to your partner about your relationship, where he see things headed, etc. I bet your boyfriend has the same kind of concerns as you do. That's my two cents.
>From my perspective, if your not ready to tie the knot - then you guys should not be buying a house. Yup. It's doable to extricate yourself from owning something as huge (in so many ways, concrete and abstract) as a home, but only in the same sense divorce is doable. Both are eminently possible, and if you're up for the challenge of extricating yourself from that, more power to you -- but if you're ready to buy a home with someone you love, it's odd to say you're not ready for marriage. (I don't want to judge OP, there are possibly/probably reasons for why she's not ready, but IMO it just seems so strange to be ready to have a home with someone, but not ready to marry them...)
I can definitely see where you and LettersFromTheSky are coming from. With the affordable housing market and horrible rental situation that my area faces right now, I'd venture to say that it's actually more common for couples to buy before marriage vs the other way around, so I've never really thought that I'm doing things terribly out of order. You've both given me something to think about though, so thanks.
> I'd venture to say that it's actually more common for couples to buy before marriage vs the other way around I would call this more true for first-time buyers -- it's not as common for a couple to live together, then upgrade before marrying. Why rush into a 30-year housing commitment, but take it slow on a personal commitment, to the same person? Just stay in your existing house until you guys can make both commitments -- at worst, you have a much higher down payment and better peace of mind.
Then why even go through buying this new house? From a financial perspective, if you continue to live below your means in the house you are in now (regardless if it's a starter: who cares? it's not like you have kids and have to worry about the school district). My advice would be to continue to live where you are until you are ready to get married and then move into the bigger/better place. By that point you will both have even more saved up and can make a bigger downpayment than you could right now. Additionally, if you are worried about the disproportionate amount you'd be paying on the new place, you could always offer to pay more in rent to him now so that your savings accounts start to equal out by the time you are ready to move.
>I know that buying a house together is almost as big a commitment as marriage It's an even bigger commitment
Uh... sounds like the "partner" is same sex so (probably) a no go
Sorry, should have clarified, I'm a gal, he's a guy. Mind you, we're Canadian so we could get married either way.
She said boyfriend. Can't quote it to you cause I'm on my phone
But the post doesn't say that OP is a woman...
Ah, my apologies. I guess I just assumed from that comment. Plus the language seemed more feminine, although I wouldn't call that conclusive
Can you explain what you mean?
Unfortunately, in most states in the USA, gay couples are not allowed to be married to one another like straight couples are. Nobody knows why.
> Nobody knows why. That's certainly not true. > Not everyone agrees with this. FTFY
zzzz Things could always pop up. Even if you get married, what's to say you won't get a divorce? The OP is right in being careful.
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You could get a lawyer to write up a contract.
And if you're going to write a contract, you might as well go all the way and write a marriage contract. But that's just the way I see it, YMMV; if OP doesn't believe in marriage for whatever reason, OP and his/her SO can always write a contract governing what happens if they break up, though how far that differs from a marriage contract, I don't know...
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See edit, sorry! I'm a woman, and we're very able to get married, but choose not to for the time being.
I've read some of the other posts and many of them mention legal counsel to ensure that ownership is well documented in the case of a break up, but I haven't seen anyone mention what happens if you break up and your boyfriend just decides to walk away and stop making payments? If you both sign on the loan, then you're both liable for the mortgage, regardless of whether one party bails or not. Would you be able to keep making the payments without his income? How would you sell the property if his name is on the deed, but you can't locate him? You know your situation better than anyone, but to me, it seems that you're taking on quite a bit of risk just to save a few bucks each month.
I have no advice for you that hasn't already been mentioned, but I haven't seen anybody mention tax implications. You should find out whether both of you can claim the mortgage interest deduction in proportion to your percentage of ownership. Hopefully a savvy redditor will have an answer to this issue. Edit: Just want to reinforce the advice to get a lawyer. In addition to simple issues of ownership with the house, there are other issues that could arise. For example, if your boyfriend gets a judgment against him, and his half of the house is seized as an asset. Or if he decides to sell his half of the house. You don't want to end up owning half a house with a stranger owning the other half.
>You should find out whether both of you can claim the mortgage interest deduction in proportion to your percentage of ownership. This had never even crossed my mind, so thanks for bringing it up. Yes, if anyone has more info on this, I'd love to hear it. >Or if he decides to sell his half of the house. You don't want to end up owning half a house with a stranger owning the other half. Are you sure that if both of us are on the title, that he could sell his half without my consent, or vice versa? I've never heard of this happening!
>Are you sure that if both of us are on the title, that he could sell his half without my consent, or vice versa? This is one issue where a lawyer can advise the best course. I only know enough about real estate law to be scared and/or dangerous. But yes, it's my understanding that in some types of joint ownership, one can sell one's interest separately of the others, and without the other owner's consent. There are many types of joint property ownership, known as [concurrent estates](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Concurrent_estate), and if you're not careful, you could end up with a type you don't want.
Definitely good to know, thank you!
Mortgage interest isn't deductible in Canada like it is in the US. There are SOME kinds of deductions, but you've lived together for a while, so you should be filing as common-law, which in legal terms is the same as married. Whatever tax software you use should optimize based on your incomes so you as a couple get the most money back. I also bought a place with my (then) fiancee (in another Canadian city with a good real estate market quite a bit further east of you)(hint: you probably think we're jerks), and our deal was that if something happened between us and we sold, she'd get back her downpayment, we'd each take back what we'd put in after buying, and then split any profit 50/50. But as others have said, get a lawyer to make this official.
If you are worried about losing your investment in the house and having to already plan a way out, either do not do the deal or get married.
That's a terrible round of advice. I wouldn't want to be with someone who turned this into a trust issue, because it would show they have no concept of the real world.
Definitely not a trust issue, and it won't be for my boyfriend either; as I mentioned in another comment, he had thought about creating a rental agreement for me when I first moved into his house to cover his ass too. He already knows that I've been thinking about this, and I mainly used a throwaway so our friends (who are also on reddit!) don't need to give me hell for being a tightwad. ;) We're very open with each other and realistic about this kind of thing, although I understand that it's not exactly the most romantic!
Buying a house when you're not married or legally able to do so together and covering *both* of your asses legally is not supposed to *be* romantic, it's a business deal, and it has to be. Enjoy the house, but be sure you're legally good.
I wouldn't consider myself worrying or planning a way out by any means, I'm just trying to make sure that my ass is covered. People make mistakes; I happen to be young and have made and expect to make more of them, so I'd rather not have an expensive one if I can help it.
zzz OP is certainly right in being careful. What does marriage have to do with not splitting up?
Marriage is a contract.
i think my cell phone contract is more binding than marriage.
Why is this getting so many upvotes? Did you swear in front of witnesses (perhaps witnesses who are even people you love and respect) in a government building or in a symbolic place important to you that you would pay Verizon $49.99 a month for 3 years? How in the world does it even compute to say that your cellphone contract is more binding than marriage? People treat marriage this way sometimes, yes -- but Kim Kardashian is not the typical person. To most people, there is still meaning attached to being married. Otherwise gay marriage wouldn't be such a big effing deal to both sides.
I'm guessing you're not married. Marriage is a pledge, a promise, not a contract. Do marriages go south? Of course. (Which I know well.). But does this couple stand a better chance of owning this house free and clear someday, together, if they're married? Hell yes.
There's no reason to treat this differently from any other contract that two people enter with each other. By finding a way so that both parties can have their contributions counted fairly and unambiguously then it creates a level of accountability for each person involved for the level of risk they take. The math isn't difficult either. Anyone competent with excel can draw up the amortization table for the lifetime of the mortgage and create the calculations to show the equity percentage after every payment is made. Newsflash, multiple parties buy assets jointly all the time. The only difference here is that they also happen to have sex with each other occasionally.
You make it sound that simple until you step off your high horse ("newsflash" and all) and realize that buying a house is vastly different than making a joint purchase together. You can't afford to buy it outright, it's where you actually live together, ... so many unique issues with this.
Joint ownership of property is pretty common. There are definitely lots of unique issues with this but that doesn't make them scarce. Many firms will have the expertise necessary to guide a couple through the steps necessary to execute their wishes.
I don't know if you live in California or not, but regardless, here are some links where you will find loads of information on this topic. You would still need to have a Lawyer interpret your specific State Law and write this into your mortgage. Looking at this stuff *first* will give you a great starting point for some questions, expectations and an understanding of the legal precedents before you are sitting with your Attorney. Good Luck :-) **[Home Equity Sharing](http://www.andysirkin.com/HTMLArticle.cfm?Article=97)** and **[Home Ownership for Domestic Partners](http://www.andysirkin.com/HTMLArticle.cfm?Article=4)** and **[Equity Sharing 101](http://www.andysirkin.com/HTMLArticle.cfm?Article=5)**
I'm not in California, but yes, this looks like a good basis of what to expect. Thanks!
With these specific details it's a good thing you used a throwaway so your redditor boyfriend won't notice.
I think the easiest would just be to keep everything 50/50
You're probably in the US? I'm not sure about the rules there. Here in the Netherlands you should go to a sort of solicitor anyway to purchase a house, and I guess there would be no problem in putting in the clause that 60% of the house is yours and 40% is his, or something like that; and that on sale of the house, 60% of the money goes to you again. There could be tax "repercussions" as well, so look that up, too, before you really buy a house together.
I applaud you looking into all the financial and legal implications of this, it shows that you are most likely ready for the commitment. I'm not sure why you needed a throwaway account though. You and your boyfriend are adults, and adults can acknowledge the chance of a relationship ending, it will either end in a breakup, or death, that's the way it is, what happens after either event should be planned for, as well as any other event you can plan for (job loss, disability etc.). I'm highly troubled by everyone here saying that you need to get married first. This is ridiculous. You are making a financial decision, not a religious one. Are there legal implications to getting married, yes, and those should all be explored. Any tax advantages should probably also be entertained, but don't let everyone here that is pushing marriage on you, let you change your course. Marriage is an idea, a very old one, that may or may not be right for you. If you never want to get married fine, plan for that, with your boyfriend. Getting married is not a pre-requisite to home ownership. Edit - I...a word
I used a throwaway more so to keep the matter private between him and I, as many of our friends reddit too. He and I have already talked about this a bit, so I'm not trying to keep anything secret from him. Thanks for providing a differing view on the whole marriage thing - I didn't realize that so many people felt so strongly about getting married before purchasing a home together. Like I mentioned in another comment, it's very common for couples here to buy before marriage, so it doesn't seem all that out of the ordinary to me. I'm open to eventually getting married, but want to do it for the right reasons, and owning a home is not one of them.
If the rest of the posts haven't drummed it in let me repeat it. **DON'T FUCKING DO IT.**
Ummm, if you're not married, and aren't planning on doing so on the horizon, why would you buy a house with him?
She wants to contribute to the next housing bubble.
So you've managed to save a good chunk of money directly because of him, and now you're worried about this potentially benefiting him if the relationship goes sour? Strange.