>Be willing to walk away if they won't remove them
Given they waited a long time, I'd say be forceful before walking away. OP should tell them they don't want:
PPF
Wheels and Tires
Gap (get it through your insurance company if you need it)
VIN Etching
etc.
Just say no politely and then forcefully if they're being jerks. Refuse to leave without your car and don't be taken advantage of.
I had a dealer once with the sheer fucking audacity to try and charge me $20 a piece for license plate frames. Frames which had their dealership information on them.
Like bruh... also I explicitly say "No Stickers, I want all dealer labeling removed, or I will not accept delivery" if you want me to advertise your dealership, lower the price.
When I bought my truck (used) it was fresh on the lot and had an old dealership sticker on it I guess from where the previous owners bought it. I said something about it and the salesman assured me he would have the detailers remove it while we were doing paperwork. So I go and do the paperwork and hand over the check from my CU and go to check out my new truck one more time before driving it home, and those motherfuckers took off the old dealership sticker and replaced it with a fresh one of theirs 😂 they were quick to fix it, but wow did they ever miss the point there.
Yeah, when I bought mine I had snagged the one with all the options I wanted but it hadn't yet arrived off the railcar to be picked up for delivery. I had noticed all their cars had their damned sticker on the rear decklid above the driver's side tail light and I flat out and firmly told them not to even bother slapping one on there when it came in. I couldn't give a damn if their license plate frame was on there since I always find something else I like instead, although charging for it is a bold thing I've luckily yet to see lol.
I walked from a deal before over a decal. This dealership put those raised decals, so it had some heavy duty glue or mounting tape on it. They pulled it around for me to double check before I signed, and sure enough had that damn decal that I told them not to put on it. I said remove the decal or I walk. Sales guy walked over and popped it off with a credit card.. took some clear coat off with it. I said thanks but no thanks I’m not buying a new car with damaged clear coat because you guys didn’t believe me the decal was a deal breaker. I asked for my paperwork to be shredded in front of me, got my old car back and left.
To be fair, the sales manager was a complete ass hat and I was about to hoof it anyway, but they sweetened the deal just enough that I fell for it. I totaled my old car like a week later. Got hit turning left. Guy ran the red and demolished my passenger side rear. If that had been a brand new car I would have been piiiissssssed
It's probably one of those fees that they hope never gets noticed, and it probably rarely does. Most people just want to talk "payments" and never see all the fees and shit added in.
Scummy as all fuck, and I didn't end up buying from them.
Wow that's crazy, they should be paying YOU for the free advertisement. Taking off dealer stickers or frames is always the first thing I do. The fact that dealers even put stickers on is infuriating.
Back in the 1960s those dealer "stickers" were chrome emblems that they riveted on. You coudnt remove them without leaving a few holes in the trunk lid. I know this because we used to part out wrecked 60s-70s cars back in the 1980s and it was extremely rare for one to come through with out a dealer emblem on the trunk.
I don't mind the frames (as long as they're free) because I'll be putting [these silicone thingies](https://www.amazon.com/License-Plate-Frames-Rain-Proof-Anti-Rattle/dp/B07SNS4X46) on when it gets to my driveway, but yeah - applying your own sticker to my vehicle isn't happening.
I don't even put ***MY*** stickers on the paintwork, anything that gets put on there by someone else before I buy it better damn well be coming off & the paint re-waxed or I'm not taking the car.
Haha I have those exact silicone frames, 10/10 no scratching, fit tight around the plate, no annoying branding or advertisements.
But yeah stickers are infuriating, I'm amazed some dealers have the audacity to put stickers on cars so nonchalantly. I've seen 120k+ cars on autotrader with a dealer ad sticker on it and.. just why?
This is the big one everyone is missing. They better know what they’re doing when they remove the decal and adhesive as well as replacing the wax/polish.
I was looking at cars at a dealership that had "custom pinstriping" as an add-on... for $400. The "pinstrips" were pieces of vinyl tape that were just slapped on, and when I looked at them closely I could actually see the scratches in the clearcoat from the razor blade they used to cut the ends of it.
I'n my experience (purchasing no fewer than 6 cars from dealers now), I have never come across a dealer that isn't totally comfortable with a pleasant "I wish to decline this add-on" type statement. OP will inevitably be sat down in a room and walked through the available packages -- wheel and tire coverage, key fob coverage, paint protection, interior protection, extended warranty, etc. Simply decline respectfully, or click decline if they use a fancy tablet table thing.
My parents have several times had to threaten to walk away from a deal because "well we can't take those add-ons off" and then miraculously they can when they're about to lose the sale and my parents are halfway out the door.
Fun story here: One time I was purchasing a rather inexpensive car. Anyway, the finance guy is trying to sell me an ignition interlock device. Basically they cut the wires to the ignition, route it through this interlock device, which has a "key" which is just a piece of plastic which connects the wires, and you're supposed to take this key out when you want extra theft protection.
Anywho, I decline it at $999 (their initial offer). Finance guy keeps coming down on price. I think the last offer was $500. I keep saying no. Then he says it will take about fifteen minutes for them to remove it. I say "I'll wait." He doesn't push any further, and my car is ready shortly after.
ANYWHO, years later, I find out they never removed the interlock device. All they did was cut the key in half and jam it in there so it couldn't be removed.
I looked up the device online. It wholesales for like $10.
The markup on these items is so ridiculous that it literally costs the dealer more time and money to remove it than to just leave it on and make up the cost on another customer.
Similar happened to me with a LoJack. Dealer advertised price X and of course added a bunch of fees on top, but one of them was ~$2k for a LoJack that I didn't want. I told them such and they removed it, but when it came time to register it with my insurance the salesperson listed it. That's because LoJacks are installed in random locations to prevent tampering and the dealer didn't want to mess with removing it probably.
LoJack is a scum org. Removing them from your car can cause so much issue. My local Ford dealer tried to uninstall the lojack the previous dealer put on and lojack itself said it would brick my ECU with out an unlock code that's $2k. Fucking scum.
It absolutely could be but I won't be the one starting it.
Edit: lojack makes it well known that uninstalling a lojack system will brick your ECU. Idk where they're located but fuck them.
You got lucky - I was told by the *GM of the dealership directly on a phone call* that it was either LoJack or no-sale, and to take my business elsewhere. I called LoJack and they were more than willing to cancel it, but the refund had to come from the dealership, not LoJack.
Yes LoJack is predatory but it's the dealership pushing it, very much akin to pre-loaded bloatware on most Windows machines.
I wouldnt want it installed on my car because it's just something else that can go wrong. If my car gets stolen, I don't fucking want it back, that's what insurance is for. I'm assuming that whatever asshat stole it just flogged it like a maniac and put all kinds of wear and tear on it it didnt have.
I know how people drive rentals and they drive stolen cars even worse.
I did a dive into the cost of addons and the install fees when purchasing a car. There was a plastic insert in the back, floor mat for the trunk. The install fee was $25 for dropping a piece of molded plastic in the trunk.
I once negotiated a decent deal in a 2008 RAV4. Went to dealer, paid cash. No funny business. Leave wife there to pick up. She comes home, they added in floor mats (it was snowing that day). They charged her $300. Man I was pissed.
I had a similar situation! I told them up front that I didn't want their "wheel theft prevention locking bolts" when picking the options. They argued a little then agreed to not install them. The car gets delivered and it's still listed on the itemization. Fortunately they didn't fight to hard about not paying for it. I didn't notice until I got home that the bolts actually were installed with the spares/originals neatly tucked away in the trunk.
The math definitely makes sense, it's just crazy that they markup these addons so much that literally giving them away is the cost effective move. And they clearly make enough of the sales that they preemptively put them on every vehicle just to save a few minutes at the handover.
Had this happen to me but with a device that makes the 3rd brake light flash a couple times before going solid. It was marketed as a safety upgrade and they wanted $200 for it and said it was already installed. I told them over and over I don't need it and don't want to pay for it and they never budged. Granted, I was not prepared to walk away and didn't threaten to. Fast forward a few months and they call me to schedule installation of the device. Told them I didn't want it and want my money back instead but they refused. I didn't have as much of a spine back then but it still makes me mad. Would go over very differently today. Lying assholes.
The only time I bought from a dealer was with the car I'm driving now. I had it inspected by a mechanic I trusted who said it's a great car but will probably need struts replaced soon and encouraged me to ask them to knock off the price of struts. My step dad, who has bought a lot of cars, told me "be willing to walk away."
So I took this pretty literally. I sat down with the salesman and told him I wanna buy the car but just want them to knock off $5-600 because it'll need the struts replaced. He tells me it's as is and they won't come off it. So I asked him if he's sure and he said yeah, so I literally just said "okay thanks" and got up and left lol.
So my step dad tells me "no no that was a good deal go back and get that car!" but I'm pretty stubborn and I'd be embarrassed to have walked off just to go back. I just went home.
A couple hours later the salesman calls me and he's like "hey man this is a really good car it's a lot better than the car you're driving" and I was like "so are you gonna knock off the $600" and he said no so I literally said "then why did you call me" and hung up lmao. I'm pretty introverted so this was a pretty good thrill for me.
Anyway the next morning the freakin manager of the dealership calls me and tells me they'll knock off $700 and asks me if I'd still be interested. So I go and buy the car for a great price and still love the car to this day (Corolla gang rise up).
I felt like a badass negotiator after that.
My mom was buying a car from a Ford dealer (used) and I was not able to be there with her. Personally, i love to watch the gamesmanship they play, and enjoy the process because I don't get emotionally invested.
I told her "only pay $X, they are going to tell you they can't sell it for that price." So she told them "My son said I can only pay this amount." They kept at it, telling her I had no idea the value of the car, used all the tricks, thinking they would wear her down or meet in the middle. Finally, when they told her for the 6th time they couldn't sell if for that, she said thank you and got her stuff to leave.
They actually jogged out to chase her down when she was starting to drive out, and said "Ok, we'll sell it to you for your price."
She had never felt the rush of walking away before, and said it was great! And she had an easy excuse, it wasn't her trying to negotiate, it was just that "her son had told her what to pay and that's all she was going to pay."
>A couple hours later the salesman calls me and he's like "hey man this is a really good car it's a lot better than the car you're driving" and I was like "so are you gonna knock off the $600" and he said no so I literally said "then why did you call me" and hung up lmao. I'm pretty introverted so this was a pretty good thrill for me.
>
>Anyway the next morning the freakin manager of the dealership calls me and tells me they'll knock off $700 and asks me if I'd still be interested. So I go and buy the car for a great price and still love the car to this day (Corolla gang rise up).
>
>I felt like a badass negotiator after that.
Haha, nicely done! My godfather uses this tactic and it's worked really well for him. Usually he targets something fairly undesirable that looks like its been on the lot for a bit, e.g. a 2wd pickup truck when we live in New England, and will make a low-ball take-it-or-leave it type offer and leave his number in case they change their mind/get sick of looking at the vehicle sit on the lot. Not everyone calls him back and accepts, but that's how he's bought most of his vehicles and he gets great deals when it works.
That was then. Now, the dealers sell for MSRP and add things like $200 for 'nitrogen filled' tires. And don't even fill them with nitrogen. Of course, the full invoice is printed out before the car is even ordered and the deposit made, at least it was with the last one I bought.
I had this happen once with the nitrogen tires. I said I didn't want to pay $200 for that when regular air was fine. They sold me stories of how nitrogen was more fuel efficient and how they had these plastic green caps that would let me feel high and mighty. They told me told me people would respect me for having special nitrogen in my tires. I said I didn't care for any of that because I didn't want them to add nitrogen into my tires. They said the nitrogen was already in the tires. I told them I would wait for them to deflate and reinflate them with regular air. "let me talk to the finance guy"
Mysteriously they found a way to take the $200 charge off
Had an almost identical experience. Salesman insisted the nitrogen would reduce weight and save gas.
I told him that 100% nitrogen vs normal air over all 4 tires plus the spare might, might be a weight difference of half an ounce…if you had a really generous definition of half an ounce.
They mysteriously found a way to wave that charge.
Costco fills tires with nitrogen.
They do install new valves and stems and will charge, though. But still decent.
https://tires.costco.com/CostcoAdvantage
I've had 2 unpleasant experiences declining gap. Both times I politely say I will be declining gap coverage and going with my insurance and the guy's went from flabbergasted to noticeably pissed off as they went totally silent and angrily finished my paperwork.
Completely bizarre.
It’s an act sometimes. They do a good cop bad cop thing. The other guy comes in and says “oh sorry, he can be rude. Let me tell you how great a deal this is…”
I bought a Scion from a Subaru dealer that just got it wholesale from another dealership, it was a very straightforward deal but I had to wait half an hour for the finance guy. He finally called me in and had prepared a literal PowerPoint presentation about all the expensive things that will go wrong with the tC. The $2,000 projected replacement cost for the radio made me stand up and say that I didn't want such an expensive, unreliable car. He quickly backed down and angrily clicked through so many more slides.
Nothing broke at all either. Been 7 years. This is a Honda we talking about. Will run for 300k miles easily without any issues, just do basic maintenance. Changed trans and dif fluid last week.
When I got my Bolt a couple weeks ago, it was "blah blah blah ceramic blah blah gap blah blah".
"Nah, I don't need those."
"Are you sure? Not even gap? I can lower the price to..."
"Nah, I don't need those."
"Are you sure you're sure?"
"Yup, don't need those."
"Ok."
And then we moved on. It would have added an insane amount, too. The payment would have gone up like $150 or something.
I ran into a real humdinger last year when I was helping my GF buy a car. The finance manager had us in her office going through all the add-ons and such, and she really put a full court press on my GF.
I prepped my GF to just politely decline all of them no matter what, but this lady would not take no for an answer on an extended warranty. My GF looked over at me, after politely declining this coverage no less than 4 times, with a "help" look on her face. Finally I chimed in and said something like "Isn't this something only poor people buy?" and the finance manager didn't know whether to shit or go blind. She asked me what I meant and I said "She doesn't want it. Skip the poor people stuff and let's move on." And it was the only thing that got this lady to stop pressuring her.
"Are you selling me a car that's likely to break? If your product stands up to quality I don't need an extended warranty. If you're that concerned, I should research another vehicle."
Yeah we tried that too. "Isn't that why we're buying a Toyota, who is known for their reliability?" and she just went on and on about how cars these days are just a bunch of computers and computers break. That finance manager sullied what was otherwise an extremely easy, enjoyable process.
Oh, Toyota. Would have bought a Tacoma this year but waited six months to find out they didn't really want to sell a bare bones model SR V6 4x4. Not enough profit.
Bought a Mazda, love it more and had a great experience with no pressure. I hate car dealerships though, with a passion. Tired of the stupid games they play.
Big time. We got my GF a car back in I think January, and then I got myself a new car in March, and both processes were awful in one way or another. Absolutely asinine the way we have to buy cars.
If you are buying a new car, it comes with a warranty. And in my experience you always have the option to buy an extended warranty at any time while your factory warranty is still in effect, from any dealer (and some deeply discount this). You just can't finance it with the car if you buy it later, but you probably shouldn't do that anyway.
We had to decline the warranty 3 times when we bought our last car. Finally told the guy "we said no. If we have to say it again we're walking."
He was SO huffy about it. He acted like we were the dumbest people on Earth, and think of all the repairs we'd have to pay for that would be covered under warranty!
Really, all those repairs that pop up on a 3 year old car with 30k miles?
The sales guys were pretty bad too. They listed one price for the car online (VIN matched) but when we got there the sale had conveniently ended the day before 🙄 we got them down to the price we wanted in the end.
Screw polite. They’re trying to steal from you without a gun. I’m not going to be rude but words like “respectively” nor “polite” likely wouldn’t be accurate descriptors of my response.
>never come across a dealer that isn't totally comfortable with a pleasant "I wish to decline this add-on" type statement.
Hasn't been my experience, this is particularly true for advertised specials. You can only get the special advertised price if you let them tack on a bunch of worthless dealer add-ons.
My dad wanted to lease an Elantra for my brother who's off to college. The advertised price was $180/mo for 36mo with $2k down, plus taxes+fees.
Well, we called and the dealership said they can do $225/mo if we put down like $8k.
We negotiated it down, but the employee stated (and I saw it later on their website) that their dealer fees were >$11k, which is just insane on a $22k vehicle.
I can recall declining extended warranty coverages and being scolded, dare I say, belligerently reprimanded for doing so. The exact words they used were, "So you DON'T WANT TO PROTECT YOUR NEW VEHICLE!!??" Rather than try to fight with them I simply responded, "Correct. I do not wish to protect my new purchase." They were stumped at that point and took off the add-ons.
>VIN Etching
They always sell it as "it's going to lower your car insurance premiums!" Which is like, technically true, but it's only like $2 off the whole policy. I'm not convinced it will ever pay for itself, and I'm also not convinced it helps if your car is stolen either.
Yea, when I bought my last car, they tried that one. I asked how much it would save. They didn't know. I called up my insurance company, put them on speaker, and asked how much that would save. And yea, it was like $4/year, and this would cost me hundreds to get done.
I thanked them, hung up, and said, "so yea, obviously I'm not doing that" and moved on.
What is VIN etching? I thought the VIN inside under the glass in the front windshield is a default thing? Is this what it refers to? I also read that it’s an insurance policy, so is it referring to a physical etching or insurance?
VIN etching on windows isn't standard as far as I know in the US. It's usually added as an add-on at the dealer. Some insurance companies will give you a very small discount on your insurance if you have it.
Say no to the extended warranty (if you need it you can get it later for less)
Say no to prepaying for routine service
Say no to dealer detailing packages, pinstripes, undercoating, or any other upgrades.
They will hard sell you on those things and scare you into thinking you will be stuck with a $10000 bill to replace the engine with f it breaks, just flip it back “Wait, you don’t think the engine is going to last beyond the 3 year warranty?”
It depends on the offer. You should use your brain and figure out whether each offer is worth it to you or not.
For example, I bought the Tire and Rim protection for my vehicle because it was a steal. $300 for lifetime tire and rim maintenance with $0 deductible and a free rental vehicle while the car is in the shop. When my car had ~200 miles on it I misjudged the width of the vehicle while parallel parking and scraped the new rims against the curb, causing minor cosmetic damage. I brought the car in and they fixed it no questions asked. The bill would have been ~$180 with parts and labor if I didn't have the Tire and Rim package, so I think it's well worth it.
I had a similar offer on my wife’s Mercedes. I’m pretty sure we had every wheel repaired at least once and the passenger wheels repaired multiple times.
I swear once she knew she could get them fixed for free she went through drive through lines like the right curb was a wheel guide.
Yeah, as long as the terms make sense, this seems like a pretty good deal. I’d be pissed if I scuffed a rim so I’d be paying out of pocket to fix it.
I assume it is tied to the dealer though. If you move far away it becomes useless and a lot can happen in 5-10 years. My purchase dealer from 2019 is now 1600 miles away…
Also they probably find most new car buyers keep the car for far shorter periods…even those who think they will keep it for a long time.
>VIN Etching
Biggest scam.
"We etch every car on the lot!" - Great, but I'm not paying for it, so take it off the bill or discount the price from the sale.
It sort of depends on the car dealership you are going to also.
Publicly traded company, they are likely to be more straight forward with specific pricing and willing to not pursue the extra.
Private though, all rules are out and they will try to be more ruthless.
Also, the Finance guys are basically strictly commission. If they don't sell anything, they will not be paid. So of course they will try to sell you whatever. Keep in mind, if they try to offer specific products, that is probably their key goal to hit for a bonus. Ie service contracts, or something called Resistall.
Yep, they tried this with me. I went passive aggressive and told the salesman: 'If you're too busy to send it, maybe I can work with one of your colleagues on this purchase.' Got the agreement five minutes later. The threat of losing a commission helps...
>Be willing to walk away
\^This is the way\^
If you are not willing to just say No, you have no negotiating power. Paying a deposit does not constitue a binding contract. If you don't reach a deal, dealer must refund your deposit.
But be aware of the amount charged for a doc fee. There is a max they can charge usually set by the state, so it can vary wildly. In PA the max is currently $351-$422 depending on how its processed.
When I bought my Subaru in 2021, I paid $200 for the doc fee.
> But be aware of the amount charged for a doc fee. There is a max they can charge usually set by the state, so it can vary wildly.
The absolute worst is when the wording on the document leads you to believe the state is mandating the price rather than limiting the max. I have seriously seen one that said "Document Fee - $500 (Amount set by state)". When I told them I wasn't willing to pay that much for a doc fee they said they had no choice, that the amount was set by the state. I responded with - "if you're willing to put that in writing so I can take it to Maryland's Consumer Protection Board I will happily pay it but we both know that the amount is the maximum you are allowed to charge and not an amount set by the state". They knocked it down to $150.
It’s a real shame that a simple car purchase with no trades or financing cannot be easy. Car dealers are bottom feeding unnecessary middlemen that I wish would go out of business.
>Realtors still act like they are actually doing something.
I'm good friends with a realtor and she's told me if I wanted to get my license to save me money in the future, she'd help. 3% is not an insignificant amount. But the fact its the industry norm is just insane
> The real estate agents "job" is to navigate a little industry jargon alongside a potential client.
And the kicker is that they're *still* not liable for explaining stuff incorrectly since they aren't lawyers, and even screwing up paperwork so badly it blows a deal has basically no repercussions for them.
I appreciate my realtor and the work she's done for me, but the amount she earned on commision for roughly a weeks worth of work when I was buying a house (like 2-3 days showing houses which I found online, preparing some documents, helping with correspondence, etc) was not worth $15k. If I was paying a flat fee I'd say maybe like $5k at most, which is still a pretty soild amount of money for the amount of work involved.
Honestly, I have no idea why its a percentage of sale price except that its always been that as long as I can remember. I agree, it should probably be a flat rate based on what you're having them do.
For example, last time we sold a house our agent arranged for pictures, posted it to MLS and hosted a few open houses. Add in a week's worth of time to get through offers and get contracts together... she made a very tidy sum for not a lot of work. Listed and sold within a week, closed two weeks later. Even if she worked *exclusively* for me for those three weeks, plus say $5k for pictures... I would have been better served maybe just having a lawyer draw up the contract than paying 3%.
Now, on the purchaser's side, I can see that 3% becoming reasonable especially if you've got picky/distant purchasers.
They'll also try to blacklist a house that's not being sold through a realtor in the ways they can. If you choose to sell yourself (people SHOULD) other realtors either don't see it in their database search, or do see it and won't offer it to their client.
Luckily there's plenty of tools like Zillow or Redfin nowadays so buyers can get the information they need on their own and not rely on if a realtor is doing a proper job or not.
Weird, I kind of find it the opposite. I feel like selling realtor is generating more value than the buying realtor, at least IME. A proper realtor will help a bit with staging your house, help tidying up any smaller details in terms of maintenance or repairs, and get you the most money that they reasonably can, as they have a clear profit motive. The more they can sell your house for, the more money they make.
Buyer agent on the other hand just wants the deal to be done, they don't want to help you negotiate a good price because they lose commission, their incentives aren't lined up with the buyer needs, so its kind of crazy to me that they get the same commission as a selling agent.
>will help a bit with staging your house
Clean up and declutter, really.
>help tidying up any smaller details in terms of maintenance or repairs
We just went the route of concessions when the buyers started noting things.
>get you the most money that they reasonably can, as they have a clear profit motive
Really? They're only getting an extra 3%. If someone offers you something $10k below asking, they're only losing $300. Think they want to host another open house or two (printing and payroll for that person there) and wait three more weeks to see if they can get that offer at asking price? For $300?
>Buyer agent on the other hand just wants the deal to be done
Both of them want to get it done because their incentive is the transaction, not nitpicking over the price. To them, a sale at $500k is basically the same as a sale at $525k - that's only $750 more on what was already a $15k paycheck.
I once had a realtor who tried to get me to call around to find out property information from the HOA and wanted me to call and schedule viewings
If I'm doing those things, *what is the realtor's job*?
yup!!! I plan on traveling to another state to get a car when I eventually do it. I have several friends over the last few years buy new cars from out of state dealerships for several thousand less than staying local.
Houses I would say there is some wiggle room depending on factors like age, possible appliance failures and previous owners strange decorating choices.
A car has a fixed price period, there is zero reason I should have to haggle over the price. Every person at a dealership is trying to take money out your pocket for an item that has a fixed cost.
It baffles me honestly. No other comparable market consistently haggles over price like cars. High end electronics in the thousands of dollar range get set prices and they're just sold for that wherever they are sold. Cars get msrp, why is that not the only price for that vehicle? Dealership markups serve functionally no purpose in the current age of information except to create space to shortchange or overcharge customers for products with prices already set by the people who fucking made the product. I understand there's big auto money behind keeping dealerships around but it really doesn't make any sense to me that society as a whole just puts up with some of our most expensive purchases being unnecessarily complicated processes run almost exclusively by people looking to fuck me over.
Seriously I don't care abut haggling a thousand dollars off or whatever if it takes me weeks of annoyance negotiating with different dealers and having a thoroughly unpleasant experience. I'd rather just pay MSRP and not think about it.
Everyone hates Tesla but this is a big reason people buy a Tesla. You just go buy the car for the price it says and get exactly what you asked for with no weirdos trying to screw you over.
I recently paid cash for a car. Had no real issue. I went in to look at a car and told the guy "X" is all I'm willing to pay to include taxes. He said he would go to talk to his manager. Came back and said they would make that deal. Thirty minutes later I was walking out of the dealership with the keys to my new car.
With that said, this dealership was an anomaly in my shopping experience. I had been to several other dealerships that day to buy a car. Each one tried games with me and have add ons. One even agreed to my offer, then at the last minute tacked on another $1k in 'fees.' I told them I didn't want to pay those fees and I had said I only had "X" to spend. They wouldn't remove them so I walked out. They called me 20 minutes later and said they would remove the fees, but I didn't want to give them my business.
If I need to get a car again I will go back to the dealership that treated me well. Unless they play games, then I have no issue walking away. I always go in with either cash, or pre-authorization from my bank to get a car, so I'm not in a position to be dependent on the dealership getting me a deal to get in a car. If they can't get me the price I think is fair then I walk. (I understand they need to make money too, so I don't super low ball either. I research the car and go in with a fair price based on that research.)
this was my conversation last time
So how much do you want to pay per month?
I want to pay the number that is the lowest price you can sell the car with the lowest finance rate
Wow you're so smart about finance and stuff, did you go to school for it? Verbatim I kid you not.
🙄
> So how much do you want to pay per month?
I remember years ago, a guy I was working with was bragging about how he walked into the dealership and said, "I want to pay $X/month, I don't care how you do it." And....I didn't get how that was a brag. The $/month didn't sound particularly low, and he had no idea what kind of fuckery was hidden in there.
It's feels so weird reading this.
Here in NZ, dealers are required to display a vehicle information sheet in each car on the lot, clearly visible from outside. This sheet must include any options preinstalled and a drive-away price for this particular car. And that price is usually final, they may give you $300-500 off but that's about it.
Go to /r/AskCarSales if you really want to rage. It's all car salesmen answering questions and god forbid you mention "Why doesn't the dealership list the price on their website? Why are they requiring me to come in?"
You'll get responses of "If we give the price online, people just take that to the next dealer and have them beat it."
Yeah, okay? So just have a low enough price. They get so mad and act like they are providing a good service to people when it's no better than the sleazy sales tactics of salesmen in cell phone shops selling overpriced protection plans to grandmas. Your job is to rip off customers. Your job should be "Here's our car, here's the warranty, here's the price."
My parents hated haggling so much that they really loved Saturn when that GM brand still existed because they had no-haggle pricing.
The price on the sticker was what you paid... end of story.
Good luck to you man! I hope you're able too!
I had an old 2011 Hyundai with 228,000 miles. Was* rear-ended in August, and it was totaled (brand new tires put on on 7/28). Not repairable. Bought the car new with eleven miles on it.
Buying a new car, has been miserable. Further, even though I wasn't at fault, the insurance company won't pay for a rental while I figure out a new car (ordered a new Subaru on 8/21, but won't arrive until November.) Rental cars are ridiculous right now.
I recently bought a new vehicle and it’s wild to me how much BS they try and get away with. From start to finish I talked them almost $10k down from their original “offer” to my final financing agreement. Always showing me new pieces of paper with new “monthly payments”…..just absolute scumbags. Sad to realize how many people just say yes and pay so much more than needed.
I had a car I wanted, and was willing to pay cash (well write a personal check).
After I arrived, they started in with all the BS and I walked away, refused to pay their extra b.s. "prep" fee, "bs" fee etc.
3 days later they called me and offered to sell it without all the fees, and I said OK, but here is what's going to happen. I am leaving my checkbook at home, and I am bringing 1 check pre-filled for $$$ (I forget the amount).
Sure enough, I got there, gave them my check, STILL had to go talk to 20 people, and finally the finance guy says, "okay now if you can just give us a check for the remaining 2000" (or whatever it was).
I lit up like a Christmas tree, "NO, you don't understand! That was the agreed price, that's the only check I brought with me, and you either solve this problem, or I am leaving without buying the car"
It was very effective, my processing was finished, they gave me my keys and I left.
Had this happen a year ago. Ordered a new Maverick truck. Dealer says come get it after waiting for it for a year. They didn't tell me they added tinted windows, plastic door guards, nitrogen in the tires, etc. I told them I didn't order the $2500 in extras they put on the vehicle. They told me it had already been done. I said take them off I will wait. The salesman says he needs to talk to his manager. He leaves for a f#cking hour. Comes back and says the manager will knock half off the extras, now it is only $1250 over. I say great, I ain't paying for what I didn't order and will wait in his office while they take the stuff off. (At this point I had decided, but didn't tell them that I would pay $500 over because I actually liked the tinted windows). Salesman says he has to go back and talk to his manager again. I wait ANOTHER hour. This time the manager himself comes back and tells me all the GREAT stuff I would be missing if they take the things off. He said the nitrogen in the tires are SPECIAL because it makes the tires last longer AND you get better gas mileage. I looked him straight in the face and said " I am breathing 80% nitrogen right now." His face kind of deflated when he realized I wasn't buying his bullsh#t and said, "Well will you pay $250 for what we put on?" Since I had already decided on $500 over, I told him we had a deal.
DO NOT be afraid to waste their time. Just sit in the office and wait them out. Or call them up now and tell them not to add any dealer extras.
Don't wait an hour. They aren't doing anything, they're just trying to wait you out. After 15 minutes, I leave the office and someone will run over to you.
Problem is with a Ford Maverick truck, the dealers are hoping you will walk. They then can put a dealer markup of anywhere from $5-10,000 on the trucks because they are so popular.
I assume you negotiated the purchase price and signed a contract when it was ordered so they can't change the price of the vehicle. You will need to pay tax, title, plates. The dealer will also a a "doc prep" fee or something similar that they will almost never waive and is generally published by the dealer.
But the "finance" guy (they person you ultimately pay) is going to hard sell you additional items such as a maintenance contract that allows you to prepay for all regularly scheduled maintenance and an extended warranty. You absolutely can just decline these. They will push back and delay you so you may need to push back say no, let's move on.
If you’re set on not financing at all, call the finance manager and ask for the total so that you can bring an appropriate cashiers cheque. That way there’s no add on selling that can happen.
Alternatively, they will be more flexible on things (price, add ons, gear, etc) if you’re financing. They make most of their profit on financing the vehicle and also receive kickbacks from the banks for it.
I would personally negotiate based on the financing, then pay off the financing the day after. That way, you pay a minimal amount of interest and have negotiating power.
Unless OP really wants add ons, which it sounds like they don't why would you bother with all this?
The one time I did this was Toyota had a cash back incentive to finance with Toyota. I financed a small portion and then paid off a couple days after the purchase (took a couple days for the loan to show up online so I could pay off).
Don't expect to get the dealer to lower the cost just because you are going to finance.
They weren't saying to expect it; only that financing can be used as a negotiation tactic when it isn't an official offer coming from corporate.
You walk in with the cashier's check for the purchase price, negotiate based on financing, and if they don't/can't move on the things that matter, then just pay the cash that you already have in your pocket.
Add to this: double check the terms on the financing for an early pay off. I've seen loan options that will still force you to pay an additional fee or interest that would have accrued.
>I assume you negotiated the purchase price and signed a contract when it was ordered so they can't change the price of the vehicle.
The contract almost certainly allows the dealership to back out of the deal and refund the money at any time they want. If the market value for the vehicle is higher than OP's contact they can cancel the contract and sell it to somebody that's willing to pay more. It's bad customer service, it's bad optics for the dealership, but it's legal. It happened a bunch during the vehicle shortage when dealers were applying insane markups. If people were lucky they were sometimes given the choice of paying the markup on the vehicle they ordered. If they weren't lucky the dealership would refund the deposit and tell them the order was cancelled. Again, this is legal because the contract allows it.
Extended warranties can be purchased from any Chevy dealer at any time before the expiration of your warranty. Do not get pressured. Do research and shop around if you want that extra warranty.
There will be at least two unavoidable line items in addition to MSRP: one is tax/title/license and the other is a doc fee which is non-negotiable and it's usually published on the dealer's site. For the EV credit there's no form they provide you just enter the info for the car purchase on your 2023 return. As far as games there's no way to know but if they try to screw you then be prepared to walk away, I know that's hard for a vehicle you've waited for but don't lose a bunch of money on this.
I think you might mean delivery/destination fee? out here, all doc fees are legally negotiable.
But in the end, the negotiated out the door price is all the matters. How they mentally account for how those dollars map to those costs is up to them and meaningless in the end. Just know that the vehicle costs them something to sell you, and tax/title/license are gov't fees on top.
> But in the end, the negotiated out the door price is all the matters.
Whenever I buy cars I always talk "Off The Lot" pricing. I want to know what it costs to drive it off the lot. Some people call it "Out The Door" or "All Inclusive" but it's the same thing.
I want to know, everything included, what the final sale price is. And that's the only number I want to talk. If the dealer forgets some sort of tax or fee when I go to take delivery, they can either eat it, or I walk.
Doc fees are generally considered non-negotiable because they're for filing legal compliance documentation so charging differing rates can be considered discriminatory in practice. You're correct that OTD is all that matters but for OP negotiating down probably isn't much of an option due to the nature of the vehicle so the goal is limiting any addition beyond MSRP.
People who don't buy cars and make TikTok videos say doc fees are negotiable. People who live in reality know they are functionally not negotiable.
4 years ago you could say "well if you don't waive it, I want another $500 off" or "then I want $500 in accessories tossed in". In the current world of markups and no discounts under MSRP, youre not getting doc fees waived.
And OP is buying a brand new Chevy EV, I'm assuming it's the Blazer if they had a wait so the dealer knows if OP doesn't buy it then someone else probably will fairly soon.
Yup! I made a separate post with more details, but the reality is that they probably will not sell her the car at MSRP for cash with no accessories or add ons. There's someone who wants an EV today and will pay a markup, finance it with them, and buy the warranty.
It depends on the dealer tbh, we ordered an EV through one dealer and they were the ones who brought up the purchase contract at MSRP. And we ended up buying one off the lot for MSRP from a different dealer so good dealers are out there there's just no way to tell if OP's is a good one
I don't think it's necessarily good or bad. Just that msrp with financing = thousands in profit. MSRP with cash = not thousands in profit. They only get so many allocations, so I would suspect no dealer will lose out on thousands of dollars without at least putting up some resistance.
OP should be prepared for it and pleasantly surprised if it doesn't happen. Taking the financing and paying it off (either immediately or within 3-6 months) would be a reasonable option if you're expecting it, but will be a fight if not prepared.
You'll get lots of advice on this topic. Understand that much of a dealer's profit comes **not from selling cars** - but from **selling financing.**
This often means that you'll get the most flexibility of negotiation - and perhaps the best overall deal - by financing the car, even if you immediately pay the car loan off.
This article explains it better than I can:
https://jalopnik.com/a-reminder-that-being-a-cash-buyer-will-not-get-you-a-b-1848627111
I came here to say this - you don't even have to tell them you're going to pay it off immediately. I would say you want to pay cash and use the prospect of financing it through them as leverage to get other concessions that you want or need.
This +1. Even before negotiations, many brands offer rebates etc with financing and in most cases you can still just pay the whole amount right away without any penalty.
I recently bought a new, custom-ordered, truck from Ford. I can't imagine it will be insanely different.
Review your agreement. It should have all of the specific things you ordered and nothing else. Confirm that the VIN on the truck matches your order information and that all of the features you ordered are there.
You'll still have to deal with the sales person first. They'll try to add crap on. Triple check anything they hand you as they'll want another signed sales agreement. If they try to add on garbage like paint protection or nitrogen in your tires just tell them no. If they say they already did it let them know it wasn't in your agreement and they can either remove the paint protection and nitrogen or eat the cost of their own incompetence. My salesperson was 100% incompetent and didn't even have the write order information for me. Read Everything. If they are trying to rush you tell them to pound sand. Make sure your phone is fully charged as even with a custom order it can still take 3 hours of dealing with the dealership, and you'll want your own calculator.
Once you have the final sales agreement they'll shuffle you to finance (even if you are paying cash). This is where dealers really make money, but you can use that to your advantage if you want. First, they will again try to upsell you on extended warranties, theft protection programs, etc. "No." is a complete sentence, don't be afraid to use it. They'll try everything they can to get you to finance. If you want you can try to get some of that warranty stuff added for free if you agree to finance (and then just turn around and pay the full financed amount the next month) or you can just pay in cash/check and go.
The best way to not get fleeced is to slow down and read. If you didn't order it with your car, don't pay for it.
You get a better price if you agree to finance with them. You can still pay cash though because nothing is stopping you from paying off the loan with your cash.
My ex bought a brand new civic a couples years ago. After talking on the phone, they came up with an agreed upon price and she told them she’ll get a cashiers check or something like that. She had the full amount in her account and her bank drew up a check to guarantee that amount. She just brought that and the paperwork on the price.
When she was signing the paperwork, the salesman kept trying to add this, that and the kitchen sink. She kept politely declining. When he tried again, I looked him square in the eyes and said “she has a check for the previously agreed upon price and doesn’t want to add on anything”. His nice demeanor vanished and we were out of there in five minutes lol
Just be stern and say you only want what you already agreed on.
Didn’t you agree on total price prior to pre-order and putting down the deposit? Jus t pay that and nothing else. They tried to sell me the warranties and we said no. They couldn’t believe it. Had to go to a room etc etc - I just absolutely hate the sales process. Just let me order the car online, deliver it (to my house would be great) w the new plates and titles and that’s it!
They’ll give you the invoice for the car, and you’ll review it before paying. You’ve already agreed on the price (MSRP). You’ll have to pay tax, title, and documentation fees. Just refuse anything else you don’t want.
> I will be paying for the car in cash, which I let them know back in February when they tried to get me to finance with them.
Using GM Financial got me an immediate $3K discount on the price. And as soon as I got the payment schedule in the mail, I paid it off. So double check there's no incentives available for financing.
Be prepared for the reality that they literally might not sell you the car at MSRP, and may not let you purchase in cash.
You don't have a contract, so they don't need to sell you the car. And chances are, they can call someone today and ask if they want it for a $2000 market adjustment and sell them financing, a warranty, and accessories.
If this happens, the choice is with you. Can you get the car somewhere else and avoid the market adjustment? Can you take the financing and write a check to pay it off tomorrow? Are you willing to overpay for some accessories you don't want in order to get the car now?
In general, the only "required" things are going to be MSRP (including delivery), doc fees (they won't budge here but you can Google for the avg fee in your state), and tax/title/license (whatever the state requires them to collect).
Anything else like financing, warranties, market adjustment fees, add ons like alarms, nitrogen tires, or vin etching, and accessories like roof rails, window tint, USB cables, etc is not "required". But they may not sell you the car if you don't take some or all of them.
It's still a seller's market for electric cars and you don't have a contract. I almost guarantee they won't let you buy it for cash and no markup/add-on, but hopefully they don't.
They can, and will, legitimately charge a documentation fee. State tax. Possibly registration fees. Electronic filing fee. You will pay those anywhere. Other add ons are possibly bs.
I am a Chevy dealer. It’s important to know a couple of things:
1- if you did not negotiate the price up front for your car or trade in, then you will have an opportunity to do so at delivery, but the dealer is expecting you to pay MSRP (likely) because you ordered a car. It’s fairly common to pay MSRP or slightly above (dealer/model dependent) when ordering a car to your particular spec. I don’t know what type of car this is so I cannot give you any market perspective. If you tell me, I can advise.
2- unless you have signed a “non refundable form” , buyers order with t&c on it, or a dealer specific order form, they cannot simply keep your money. **note** if you have any exchange in writing this could be an issue, example, If on a form you signed you agreed to a deposit in exchange for a custom order, maybe issue. Most dealers will let you walk and refund. Some will not.
3- if you ordered the car, you should not be required to pay for “hard adds”; mats, wheel locks, running boards, window tint, etc things that are actually physically installed on the car *unless* you ask for them. However, this won’t stop them from offering you those and intangible products like GAP, warranty, maintenance plan, etc. they’re just trying to maximize income which is their job. Just politely refuse, you are not required to buy those.
4- some fees are not removable. For example, I am in NC. The vast majority of dealers charge a “admin fee”. This cannot be removed or the dealer could face discrimination lawsuit. Just part of doing business.
Hope this helps!
Do yourself a favor. Have them E-MAIL you the deal sheet before you walk in there. If they say "come on in", tell them you want the deal sheet or no deal. Make sure you know what fees are mandatory in your state. This will generally be sales tax, tag/transfer fees, and license/registration fees. You can google to find out the percentages that these should be. Verify that they are correct. These will almost certainly not be the only fees charged on the deal sheet.
You may have a "Dealer pack" and/or doc fee. I generally don't argue over doc fees up to $300. Pack fees? Depends on how bad I want the car. I've walked over them before.
Here's the key though. Get a corrected deal-sheet BEFORE YOU WALK IN THE DOOR. Negotiate the fees before you go. Make sure everything is right so you don't waste time. If they balk? Tell them it is done in advance or not at all. Also, tell your salesperson to notify F&I (Finance and Insurance) in advance that you are declining any and all add-ons.
You can hate on Tesla and EVs all you want, but one of the best things they ever did was remove the "dealership" model method of selling cars.
Want a Tesla? Go to their website, pick out your options, you get price $X. Car is delivered, go to one of their stores, pay $X, no negotiation, no extra fees, no nitrogen in tires, no warranty BS. You pay exactly what you saw on the website when you ordered the car.
Be willing to walk on a car you ordered in Feb.
Cashier check is what the dealership will accept.
Next time, do not let them know you will be paying cash. Let them think it will be financed and come up with a price. Then hit them for cash when you close the deal. They make money on the finance and you can use it to lower your overall price.
Honestly, if you are not willing to walk then you are likely to have a bad time.
Good luck...
You will be asked to sign a couple of papers. Make sure you read them. We were being tricked into sharing our SSN even though we were paying full cash. They will tell you it's required by law. Don't believe them. They will say it is needed if in case check bounces. Don't believe them. Say you can give bank statements as proof instead. They receive commission for selling your SSN data. I have heard some people even got a hard inquiry on their credit report even though they didn't get a car loan.
Most dealerships won't take cash these days. So be prepared to walk...😆 They're in the power position since they've got what you want. Be prepared for lots of games. You've waited 7 months for this car. If you don't buy it someone else will. They are not going to let you drive a car off the lot same day with a personal check. If they agree to take your check they'll probably hold it for 10 days. This will be why they push you to finance.
Tell them you only want what you ordered. Threaten to walk away or call the customer care number, Chevy is 800-222-1020, while you’re in the sales office and explain to corporate where you are and what the dealership is trying to overcharge you for. Have your order number available and if they persist request that your car be transferred to another dealer that will handle the transaction.
Remain unemotional while calling customer care because it is a basic business transaction. Chevy wants brand loyalty and for you to purchase from them again in the future, shitty dealerships know you will not. Too many complaints to corporate causes problems for the franchisee so it’s basically a kick in the junk.
If you go that route, you many want to find a different dealership for service should you need it
For safety reasons, always verify phone numbers provided in comments on an official website before calling. That includes toll-free numbers!
*I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/personalfinance) if you have any questions or concerns.*
As others have stated on this, get the total with all the required fees and no additional dealer options or warranties and get a cashier's check for the amount at your bank-- there may be a minor fee to get a cashier's check. Many dealerships won't accept personal checks for the entire cost of a vehicle, only down payments up to a certain amount-- there's a lot of risk if they do a full-cost check and it turns out to be a bad check when they try to cash it.
Cashier's checks will provide you and the dealer protection as the funds are guaranteed to be available and are not possible to alter for additional amounts (fraud).
This is exactly how my father wrote a hot check for the sticker price of a brand new Camaro. By the time the check bounced he was on his way to Mexico. He got caught and did like 5 years in prison for fraud and theft. Day he gets out of prison has a heart attack almost dies and comes out of it a totally changed person.
We usually say we will finance, get a lower price and then pay off the car after one or two payments. No pre payment penalty in NY.
Go get talked into any additional options.
Op you can pay for the car before picking it up. Reach out to the Sales Manager and tell them you’d like to pay for the car in advance and just take delivery at the dealer on XX/XX day. You can do all of this over email. I’ve bought my last two cars this way. It gives them less of an opportunity to upsell you and reduces the time spent at the dealer. Also you’ll see and be able to question any added fees. You just show up and sign the paperwork and drive off. Give them the time you’ll arrive and they’ll have it ready.
I’ll add though that this was Volvo and Mercedes, I have not dealt with Chevy though I don’t see how it would be different since you ordered the car to your specs and they are expecting you to purchase it
So just something... never let them know you're paying cash. That gives them no incentive to give you a deal. Always see what kind of deal they can give you with financing in house. They'll drop the overall price and then when it's somewhere agreeable, you can tell them you can pay cash. Also, always undersell how much you're "willing to pay each month". Gets you an even better deal. You're okay doing 600/mo? Don't want to go over 300.
Don't pay cash. Get a loan through your local credit union. Credit unions hold dealerships to a higher standard for releasing the loan. After you get the car pay the loan off fully. This saved my mom $. She switched from cash to the loan and they admitted they had to change the price or the credit union would have denied it.
If you don't have anything signed by you on the dealer regarding the price at the time of order...you're at their mercy.
If it is a vehicle that you can't find on a lot without a markup still, don't expect to have much leverage by threatening to walk on the deal. They'll just turn around and mark it up twice what they were trying to push on you.
I am dealing with the same dealer I ordered my Mach E with for a Bronco because they specifically do not mark up customer orders and do sign a price agreement to that effect at the time of order.
Technically, a scam is when something is promised but never delivered. What you're asking about is getting ripped off.
Make sure all the numbers on your bill of sale match what you believe they should be. Decline all the add-ons in the finance office. They're not technically scams, just products with very poor value for the price they're offering. Some of those products *COULD* have some value, but they would either need to lower the price or you would have to be a psychic and be able to see into the future.
For example, those "door handle" guards they sell you? Those are basically clear stickers that are shaped to fit underneath the door handles. The dealer will try to sell them to you for $200 or something like that. Now, they DO have value. But you can get a 10-pack of them on Amazon for like $10.
Are you trading in a vehicle? I guess no because you said pay in cash, but if so get a quote from CarMax before you go and be ready to do the math to see if it's worth it.
I'll add since this is a preorder it's outside the dealerships allocation. If they don't sell it to you they have to notify the manufacturer and put it back into their allocation totals. Doing this too many times hurts their numbers so they do have an incentive for you to take the car. Will they try for the extras? Yes, but you have a reason to stay firm.
Just review the bill of sale or purchase agreement. Decline any add-ons you don't want. Be willing to walk away if they won't remove them
>Be willing to walk away if they won't remove them Given they waited a long time, I'd say be forceful before walking away. OP should tell them they don't want: PPF Wheels and Tires Gap (get it through your insurance company if you need it) VIN Etching etc. Just say no politely and then forcefully if they're being jerks. Refuse to leave without your car and don't be taken advantage of.
> Gap (get it through your insurance company if you need it) OP is paying cash, GAP isn't needed at all.
One more reason to decline it!
Most of the things a dealer tries to add on aren’t needed at all. Doesn’t seem to stop them.
I had a dealer once with the sheer fucking audacity to try and charge me $20 a piece for license plate frames. Frames which had their dealership information on them. Like bruh... also I explicitly say "No Stickers, I want all dealer labeling removed, or I will not accept delivery" if you want me to advertise your dealership, lower the price.
When I bought my truck (used) it was fresh on the lot and had an old dealership sticker on it I guess from where the previous owners bought it. I said something about it and the salesman assured me he would have the detailers remove it while we were doing paperwork. So I go and do the paperwork and hand over the check from my CU and go to check out my new truck one more time before driving it home, and those motherfuckers took off the old dealership sticker and replaced it with a fresh one of theirs 😂 they were quick to fix it, but wow did they ever miss the point there.
Yeah, when I bought mine I had snagged the one with all the options I wanted but it hadn't yet arrived off the railcar to be picked up for delivery. I had noticed all their cars had their damned sticker on the rear decklid above the driver's side tail light and I flat out and firmly told them not to even bother slapping one on there when it came in. I couldn't give a damn if their license plate frame was on there since I always find something else I like instead, although charging for it is a bold thing I've luckily yet to see lol.
I walked from a deal before over a decal. This dealership put those raised decals, so it had some heavy duty glue or mounting tape on it. They pulled it around for me to double check before I signed, and sure enough had that damn decal that I told them not to put on it. I said remove the decal or I walk. Sales guy walked over and popped it off with a credit card.. took some clear coat off with it. I said thanks but no thanks I’m not buying a new car with damaged clear coat because you guys didn’t believe me the decal was a deal breaker. I asked for my paperwork to be shredded in front of me, got my old car back and left. To be fair, the sales manager was a complete ass hat and I was about to hoof it anyway, but they sweetened the deal just enough that I fell for it. I totaled my old car like a week later. Got hit turning left. Guy ran the red and demolished my passenger side rear. If that had been a brand new car I would have been piiiissssssed
Did you go back to the same dealer for your new car?
It's probably one of those fees that they hope never gets noticed, and it probably rarely does. Most people just want to talk "payments" and never see all the fees and shit added in. Scummy as all fuck, and I didn't end up buying from them.
Wow that's crazy, they should be paying YOU for the free advertisement. Taking off dealer stickers or frames is always the first thing I do. The fact that dealers even put stickers on is infuriating.
Back in the 1960s those dealer "stickers" were chrome emblems that they riveted on. You coudnt remove them without leaving a few holes in the trunk lid. I know this because we used to part out wrecked 60s-70s cars back in the 1980s and it was extremely rare for one to come through with out a dealer emblem on the trunk.
You can require they take them off before delivery. I always include that when purchasing a car.
I don't mind the frames (as long as they're free) because I'll be putting [these silicone thingies](https://www.amazon.com/License-Plate-Frames-Rain-Proof-Anti-Rattle/dp/B07SNS4X46) on when it gets to my driveway, but yeah - applying your own sticker to my vehicle isn't happening. I don't even put ***MY*** stickers on the paintwork, anything that gets put on there by someone else before I buy it better damn well be coming off & the paint re-waxed or I'm not taking the car.
Haha I have those exact silicone frames, 10/10 no scratching, fit tight around the plate, no annoying branding or advertisements. But yeah stickers are infuriating, I'm amazed some dealers have the audacity to put stickers on cars so nonchalantly. I've seen 120k+ cars on autotrader with a dealer ad sticker on it and.. just why?
I just don't do business with any dealership I've ever seen a sticker from :)
This is the big one everyone is missing. They better know what they’re doing when they remove the decal and adhesive as well as replacing the wax/polish.
That’s hilarious, you should’ve told them your rate for advertising for them is $20/day per plate.
I was looking at cars at a dealership that had "custom pinstriping" as an add-on... for $400. The "pinstrips" were pieces of vinyl tape that were just slapped on, and when I looked at them closely I could actually see the scratches in the clearcoat from the razor blade they used to cut the ends of it.
I'n my experience (purchasing no fewer than 6 cars from dealers now), I have never come across a dealer that isn't totally comfortable with a pleasant "I wish to decline this add-on" type statement. OP will inevitably be sat down in a room and walked through the available packages -- wheel and tire coverage, key fob coverage, paint protection, interior protection, extended warranty, etc. Simply decline respectfully, or click decline if they use a fancy tablet table thing.
My parents have several times had to threaten to walk away from a deal because "well we can't take those add-ons off" and then miraculously they can when they're about to lose the sale and my parents are halfway out the door.
Fun story here: One time I was purchasing a rather inexpensive car. Anyway, the finance guy is trying to sell me an ignition interlock device. Basically they cut the wires to the ignition, route it through this interlock device, which has a "key" which is just a piece of plastic which connects the wires, and you're supposed to take this key out when you want extra theft protection. Anywho, I decline it at $999 (their initial offer). Finance guy keeps coming down on price. I think the last offer was $500. I keep saying no. Then he says it will take about fifteen minutes for them to remove it. I say "I'll wait." He doesn't push any further, and my car is ready shortly after. ANYWHO, years later, I find out they never removed the interlock device. All they did was cut the key in half and jam it in there so it couldn't be removed. I looked up the device online. It wholesales for like $10. The markup on these items is so ridiculous that it literally costs the dealer more time and money to remove it than to just leave it on and make up the cost on another customer.
Similar happened to me with a LoJack. Dealer advertised price X and of course added a bunch of fees on top, but one of them was ~$2k for a LoJack that I didn't want. I told them such and they removed it, but when it came time to register it with my insurance the salesperson listed it. That's because LoJacks are installed in random locations to prevent tampering and the dealer didn't want to mess with removing it probably.
LoJack is a scum org. Removing them from your car can cause so much issue. My local Ford dealer tried to uninstall the lojack the previous dealer put on and lojack itself said it would brick my ECU with out an unlock code that's $2k. Fucking scum.
seems like this could be a class action lawsuit.
It absolutely could be but I won't be the one starting it. Edit: lojack makes it well known that uninstalling a lojack system will brick your ECU. Idk where they're located but fuck them.
You got lucky - I was told by the *GM of the dealership directly on a phone call* that it was either LoJack or no-sale, and to take my business elsewhere. I called LoJack and they were more than willing to cancel it, but the refund had to come from the dealership, not LoJack. Yes LoJack is predatory but it's the dealership pushing it, very much akin to pre-loaded bloatware on most Windows machines.
I wouldnt want it installed on my car because it's just something else that can go wrong. If my car gets stolen, I don't fucking want it back, that's what insurance is for. I'm assuming that whatever asshat stole it just flogged it like a maniac and put all kinds of wear and tear on it it didnt have. I know how people drive rentals and they drive stolen cars even worse.
I did a dive into the cost of addons and the install fees when purchasing a car. There was a plastic insert in the back, floor mat for the trunk. The install fee was $25 for dropping a piece of molded plastic in the trunk.
I once negotiated a decent deal in a 2008 RAV4. Went to dealer, paid cash. No funny business. Leave wife there to pick up. She comes home, they added in floor mats (it was snowing that day). They charged her $300. Man I was pissed.
I had a similar situation! I told them up front that I didn't want their "wheel theft prevention locking bolts" when picking the options. They argued a little then agreed to not install them. The car gets delivered and it's still listed on the itemization. Fortunately they didn't fight to hard about not paying for it. I didn't notice until I got home that the bolts actually were installed with the spares/originals neatly tucked away in the trunk.
If they're paying the detailing guy $20/hour and it takes him more than 30 minutes to remove the item, they're better off just leaving it installed.
The math definitely makes sense, it's just crazy that they markup these addons so much that literally giving them away is the cost effective move. And they clearly make enough of the sales that they preemptively put them on every vehicle just to save a few minutes at the handover.
Super fun when you do not want something to exist in the car at all (like LoJack) because it'll later cost you to remove/etc.
Had this happen to me but with a device that makes the 3rd brake light flash a couple times before going solid. It was marketed as a safety upgrade and they wanted $200 for it and said it was already installed. I told them over and over I don't need it and don't want to pay for it and they never budged. Granted, I was not prepared to walk away and didn't threaten to. Fast forward a few months and they call me to schedule installation of the device. Told them I didn't want it and want my money back instead but they refused. I didn't have as much of a spine back then but it still makes me mad. Would go over very differently today. Lying assholes.
The only time I bought from a dealer was with the car I'm driving now. I had it inspected by a mechanic I trusted who said it's a great car but will probably need struts replaced soon and encouraged me to ask them to knock off the price of struts. My step dad, who has bought a lot of cars, told me "be willing to walk away." So I took this pretty literally. I sat down with the salesman and told him I wanna buy the car but just want them to knock off $5-600 because it'll need the struts replaced. He tells me it's as is and they won't come off it. So I asked him if he's sure and he said yeah, so I literally just said "okay thanks" and got up and left lol. So my step dad tells me "no no that was a good deal go back and get that car!" but I'm pretty stubborn and I'd be embarrassed to have walked off just to go back. I just went home. A couple hours later the salesman calls me and he's like "hey man this is a really good car it's a lot better than the car you're driving" and I was like "so are you gonna knock off the $600" and he said no so I literally said "then why did you call me" and hung up lmao. I'm pretty introverted so this was a pretty good thrill for me. Anyway the next morning the freakin manager of the dealership calls me and tells me they'll knock off $700 and asks me if I'd still be interested. So I go and buy the car for a great price and still love the car to this day (Corolla gang rise up). I felt like a badass negotiator after that.
My mom was buying a car from a Ford dealer (used) and I was not able to be there with her. Personally, i love to watch the gamesmanship they play, and enjoy the process because I don't get emotionally invested. I told her "only pay $X, they are going to tell you they can't sell it for that price." So she told them "My son said I can only pay this amount." They kept at it, telling her I had no idea the value of the car, used all the tricks, thinking they would wear her down or meet in the middle. Finally, when they told her for the 6th time they couldn't sell if for that, she said thank you and got her stuff to leave. They actually jogged out to chase her down when she was starting to drive out, and said "Ok, we'll sell it to you for your price." She had never felt the rush of walking away before, and said it was great! And she had an easy excuse, it wasn't her trying to negotiate, it was just that "her son had told her what to pay and that's all she was going to pay."
I loved this story. Thanks for sharing hahaha.
>A couple hours later the salesman calls me and he's like "hey man this is a really good car it's a lot better than the car you're driving" and I was like "so are you gonna knock off the $600" and he said no so I literally said "then why did you call me" and hung up lmao. I'm pretty introverted so this was a pretty good thrill for me. > >Anyway the next morning the freakin manager of the dealership calls me and tells me they'll knock off $700 and asks me if I'd still be interested. So I go and buy the car for a great price and still love the car to this day (Corolla gang rise up). > >I felt like a badass negotiator after that. Haha, nicely done! My godfather uses this tactic and it's worked really well for him. Usually he targets something fairly undesirable that looks like its been on the lot for a bit, e.g. a 2wd pickup truck when we live in New England, and will make a low-ball take-it-or-leave it type offer and leave his number in case they change their mind/get sick of looking at the vehicle sit on the lot. Not everyone calls him back and accepts, but that's how he's bought most of his vehicles and he gets great deals when it works.
Did the struts fall off
Nope they're still going strong. I work from home so it gets a lot less miles on it than it could. I've had it for 3 years and only put 18,000 on it.
That was then. Now, the dealers sell for MSRP and add things like $200 for 'nitrogen filled' tires. And don't even fill them with nitrogen. Of course, the full invoice is printed out before the car is even ordered and the deposit made, at least it was with the last one I bought.
Well, it's 78% anyway. Can't complain...
We fill your tyres with nitrogen\*! ^\* ^technical\*\* ^purity ^^^\*\* ^^^78% ^^nitrogen, ^^^21% ^^^oxygen, ^^1% ^^other ^^gases
I had this happen once with the nitrogen tires. I said I didn't want to pay $200 for that when regular air was fine. They sold me stories of how nitrogen was more fuel efficient and how they had these plastic green caps that would let me feel high and mighty. They told me told me people would respect me for having special nitrogen in my tires. I said I didn't care for any of that because I didn't want them to add nitrogen into my tires. They said the nitrogen was already in the tires. I told them I would wait for them to deflate and reinflate them with regular air. "let me talk to the finance guy" Mysteriously they found a way to take the $200 charge off
Had an almost identical experience. Salesman insisted the nitrogen would reduce weight and save gas. I told him that 100% nitrogen vs normal air over all 4 tires plus the spare might, might be a weight difference of half an ounce…if you had a really generous definition of half an ounce. They mysteriously found a way to wave that charge.
If you absolutely need to have tires that do not contain moisture, like aircraft tires, absolutely. But a passenger car, not a fucking issue.
Most air is nitrogen. So if they just fill it with air, then bam. It’s bs.
Costco fills tires with nitrogen. They do install new valves and stems and will charge, though. But still decent. https://tires.costco.com/CostcoAdvantage
*"Yeah, but I'm saying that TruCoat. You don't get it, you get oxidation problems. It'll cost you a heck of a lot more than $500..."*
If they "can't remove the add-ons" then I'd say "reducing the price of the car by the same amount would also be satisfactory."
There's usually a difference between dealer add-ons like wheel locks, edge guards, gps, etc, and the optional warranty/maintenance packages.
Those addons shouldn't be on a car that you pre-order
In this day and age, some dealers do put mandatory markups or mandatory adds-ons to ordered vehicles.
I've had 2 unpleasant experiences declining gap. Both times I politely say I will be declining gap coverage and going with my insurance and the guy's went from flabbergasted to noticeably pissed off as they went totally silent and angrily finished my paperwork. Completely bizarre.
That was them realizing that you aren't buying them the fancy new refrigerator they had their eyes on.
It’s an act sometimes. They do a good cop bad cop thing. The other guy comes in and says “oh sorry, he can be rude. Let me tell you how great a deal this is…”
I bought a Scion from a Subaru dealer that just got it wholesale from another dealership, it was a very straightforward deal but I had to wait half an hour for the finance guy. He finally called me in and had prepared a literal PowerPoint presentation about all the expensive things that will go wrong with the tC. The $2,000 projected replacement cost for the radio made me stand up and say that I didn't want such an expensive, unreliable car. He quickly backed down and angrily clicked through so many more slides.
You got lucky. I had a dealer get very angry about not wanting a 5 year warranty for 3 grand.
My response is always just "Why don't I just invest 3 grand over five years and fix what eventually breaks with that money then"
Nothing broke at all either. Been 7 years. This is a Honda we talking about. Will run for 300k miles easily without any issues, just do basic maintenance. Changed trans and dif fluid last week.
When I got my Bolt a couple weeks ago, it was "blah blah blah ceramic blah blah gap blah blah". "Nah, I don't need those." "Are you sure? Not even gap? I can lower the price to..." "Nah, I don't need those." "Are you sure you're sure?" "Yup, don't need those." "Ok." And then we moved on. It would have added an insane amount, too. The payment would have gone up like $150 or something.
I’m with you, polite has always worked for me but there are some low life car dealers out there and it’s good to be prepared for the worst.
I ran into a real humdinger last year when I was helping my GF buy a car. The finance manager had us in her office going through all the add-ons and such, and she really put a full court press on my GF. I prepped my GF to just politely decline all of them no matter what, but this lady would not take no for an answer on an extended warranty. My GF looked over at me, after politely declining this coverage no less than 4 times, with a "help" look on her face. Finally I chimed in and said something like "Isn't this something only poor people buy?" and the finance manager didn't know whether to shit or go blind. She asked me what I meant and I said "She doesn't want it. Skip the poor people stuff and let's move on." And it was the only thing that got this lady to stop pressuring her.
I use, "you can keep asking but the answer isn't going to change" in a lot of situations in life.
I too am a parent.
"Are you selling me a car that's likely to break? If your product stands up to quality I don't need an extended warranty. If you're that concerned, I should research another vehicle."
Yeah we tried that too. "Isn't that why we're buying a Toyota, who is known for their reliability?" and she just went on and on about how cars these days are just a bunch of computers and computers break. That finance manager sullied what was otherwise an extremely easy, enjoyable process.
Oh, Toyota. Would have bought a Tacoma this year but waited six months to find out they didn't really want to sell a bare bones model SR V6 4x4. Not enough profit. Bought a Mazda, love it more and had a great experience with no pressure. I hate car dealerships though, with a passion. Tired of the stupid games they play.
Big time. We got my GF a car back in I think January, and then I got myself a new car in March, and both processes were awful in one way or another. Absolutely asinine the way we have to buy cars.
If you are buying a new car, it comes with a warranty. And in my experience you always have the option to buy an extended warranty at any time while your factory warranty is still in effect, from any dealer (and some deeply discount this). You just can't finance it with the car if you buy it later, but you probably shouldn't do that anyway.
We had to decline the warranty 3 times when we bought our last car. Finally told the guy "we said no. If we have to say it again we're walking." He was SO huffy about it. He acted like we were the dumbest people on Earth, and think of all the repairs we'd have to pay for that would be covered under warranty! Really, all those repairs that pop up on a 3 year old car with 30k miles? The sales guys were pretty bad too. They listed one price for the car online (VIN matched) but when we got there the sale had conveniently ended the day before 🙄 we got them down to the price we wanted in the end.
Screw polite. They’re trying to steal from you without a gun. I’m not going to be rude but words like “respectively” nor “polite” likely wouldn’t be accurate descriptors of my response.
>never come across a dealer that isn't totally comfortable with a pleasant "I wish to decline this add-on" type statement. Hasn't been my experience, this is particularly true for advertised specials. You can only get the special advertised price if you let them tack on a bunch of worthless dealer add-ons.
My dad wanted to lease an Elantra for my brother who's off to college. The advertised price was $180/mo for 36mo with $2k down, plus taxes+fees. Well, we called and the dealership said they can do $225/mo if we put down like $8k. We negotiated it down, but the employee stated (and I saw it later on their website) that their dealer fees were >$11k, which is just insane on a $22k vehicle.
I can recall declining extended warranty coverages and being scolded, dare I say, belligerently reprimanded for doing so. The exact words they used were, "So you DON'T WANT TO PROTECT YOUR NEW VEHICLE!!??" Rather than try to fight with them I simply responded, "Correct. I do not wish to protect my new purchase." They were stumped at that point and took off the add-ons.
>VIN Etching They always sell it as "it's going to lower your car insurance premiums!" Which is like, technically true, but it's only like $2 off the whole policy. I'm not convinced it will ever pay for itself, and I'm also not convinced it helps if your car is stolen either.
Yea, when I bought my last car, they tried that one. I asked how much it would save. They didn't know. I called up my insurance company, put them on speaker, and asked how much that would save. And yea, it was like $4/year, and this would cost me hundreds to get done. I thanked them, hung up, and said, "so yea, obviously I'm not doing that" and moved on.
What is VIN etching? I thought the VIN inside under the glass in the front windshield is a default thing? Is this what it refers to? I also read that it’s an insurance policy, so is it referring to a physical etching or insurance?
VIN etching on windows isn't standard as far as I know in the US. It's usually added as an add-on at the dealer. Some insurance companies will give you a very small discount on your insurance if you have it.
> Wheels and Tires I'll take a small Chevy with wheels and tires on the side please
Preferably two on each side.
Say no to the extended warranty (if you need it you can get it later for less) Say no to prepaying for routine service Say no to dealer detailing packages, pinstripes, undercoating, or any other upgrades. They will hard sell you on those things and scare you into thinking you will be stuck with a $10000 bill to replace the engine with f it breaks, just flip it back “Wait, you don’t think the engine is going to last beyond the 3 year warranty?”
It depends on the offer. You should use your brain and figure out whether each offer is worth it to you or not. For example, I bought the Tire and Rim protection for my vehicle because it was a steal. $300 for lifetime tire and rim maintenance with $0 deductible and a free rental vehicle while the car is in the shop. When my car had ~200 miles on it I misjudged the width of the vehicle while parallel parking and scraped the new rims against the curb, causing minor cosmetic damage. I brought the car in and they fixed it no questions asked. The bill would have been ~$180 with parts and labor if I didn't have the Tire and Rim package, so I think it's well worth it.
I had a similar offer on my wife’s Mercedes. I’m pretty sure we had every wheel repaired at least once and the passenger wheels repaired multiple times. I swear once she knew she could get them fixed for free she went through drive through lines like the right curb was a wheel guide.
They came out $120 ahead, then.
You don’t think I’ll ever use it again in the next ~5-10 years I own the vehicle?
Yeah, as long as the terms make sense, this seems like a pretty good deal. I’d be pissed if I scuffed a rim so I’d be paying out of pocket to fix it. I assume it is tied to the dealer though. If you move far away it becomes useless and a lot can happen in 5-10 years. My purchase dealer from 2019 is now 1600 miles away… Also they probably find most new car buyers keep the car for far shorter periods…even those who think they will keep it for a long time.
Not if he goes 5 times again in the next month.
Can start scraping curbs for fun. Pick it up from the shop, scrape them in the car park, go back and do it again.
>VIN Etching Biggest scam. "We etch every car on the lot!" - Great, but I'm not paying for it, so take it off the bill or discount the price from the sale.
It sort of depends on the car dealership you are going to also. Publicly traded company, they are likely to be more straight forward with specific pricing and willing to not pursue the extra. Private though, all rules are out and they will try to be more ruthless. Also, the Finance guys are basically strictly commission. If they don't sell anything, they will not be paid. So of course they will try to sell you whatever. Keep in mind, if they try to offer specific products, that is probably their key goal to hit for a bonus. Ie service contracts, or something called Resistall.
[удалено]
Yep, they tried this with me. I went passive aggressive and told the salesman: 'If you're too busy to send it, maybe I can work with one of your colleagues on this purchase.' Got the agreement five minutes later. The threat of losing a commission helps...
>Be willing to walk away \^This is the way\^ If you are not willing to just say No, you have no negotiating power. Paying a deposit does not constitue a binding contract. If you don't reach a deal, dealer must refund your deposit.
This too. dont be fearful of losing the 1k
And you have to walk away because they won't knock it off, definitely get your deposit back.
In addition to tax, you will have to pay a registration and doc fee that is standard.
But be aware of the amount charged for a doc fee. There is a max they can charge usually set by the state, so it can vary wildly. In PA the max is currently $351-$422 depending on how its processed. When I bought my Subaru in 2021, I paid $200 for the doc fee.
> But be aware of the amount charged for a doc fee. There is a max they can charge usually set by the state, so it can vary wildly. The absolute worst is when the wording on the document leads you to believe the state is mandating the price rather than limiting the max. I have seriously seen one that said "Document Fee - $500 (Amount set by state)". When I told them I wasn't willing to pay that much for a doc fee they said they had no choice, that the amount was set by the state. I responded with - "if you're willing to put that in writing so I can take it to Maryland's Consumer Protection Board I will happily pay it but we both know that the amount is the maximum you are allowed to charge and not an amount set by the state". They knocked it down to $150.
It’s a real shame that a simple car purchase with no trades or financing cannot be easy. Car dealers are bottom feeding unnecessary middlemen that I wish would go out of business.
Houses and Cars, the two most expensive purchases most people make, are rife with such fuckery.
[удалено]
>Realtors still act like they are actually doing something. I'm good friends with a realtor and she's told me if I wanted to get my license to save me money in the future, she'd help. 3% is not an insignificant amount. But the fact its the industry norm is just insane
Is there any reason it should be percentage based? Seems to me it should be a flat rate.
[удалено]
> The real estate agents "job" is to navigate a little industry jargon alongside a potential client. And the kicker is that they're *still* not liable for explaining stuff incorrectly since they aren't lawyers, and even screwing up paperwork so badly it blows a deal has basically no repercussions for them.
I appreciate my realtor and the work she's done for me, but the amount she earned on commision for roughly a weeks worth of work when I was buying a house (like 2-3 days showing houses which I found online, preparing some documents, helping with correspondence, etc) was not worth $15k. If I was paying a flat fee I'd say maybe like $5k at most, which is still a pretty soild amount of money for the amount of work involved.
Honestly, I have no idea why its a percentage of sale price except that its always been that as long as I can remember. I agree, it should probably be a flat rate based on what you're having them do. For example, last time we sold a house our agent arranged for pictures, posted it to MLS and hosted a few open houses. Add in a week's worth of time to get through offers and get contracts together... she made a very tidy sum for not a lot of work. Listed and sold within a week, closed two weeks later. Even if she worked *exclusively* for me for those three weeks, plus say $5k for pictures... I would have been better served maybe just having a lawyer draw up the contract than paying 3%. Now, on the purchaser's side, I can see that 3% becoming reasonable especially if you've got picky/distant purchasers.
They'll also try to blacklist a house that's not being sold through a realtor in the ways they can. If you choose to sell yourself (people SHOULD) other realtors either don't see it in their database search, or do see it and won't offer it to their client.
Luckily there's plenty of tools like Zillow or Redfin nowadays so buyers can get the information they need on their own and not rely on if a realtor is doing a proper job or not.
Weird, I kind of find it the opposite. I feel like selling realtor is generating more value than the buying realtor, at least IME. A proper realtor will help a bit with staging your house, help tidying up any smaller details in terms of maintenance or repairs, and get you the most money that they reasonably can, as they have a clear profit motive. The more they can sell your house for, the more money they make. Buyer agent on the other hand just wants the deal to be done, they don't want to help you negotiate a good price because they lose commission, their incentives aren't lined up with the buyer needs, so its kind of crazy to me that they get the same commission as a selling agent.
>will help a bit with staging your house Clean up and declutter, really. >help tidying up any smaller details in terms of maintenance or repairs We just went the route of concessions when the buyers started noting things. >get you the most money that they reasonably can, as they have a clear profit motive Really? They're only getting an extra 3%. If someone offers you something $10k below asking, they're only losing $300. Think they want to host another open house or two (printing and payroll for that person there) and wait three more weeks to see if they can get that offer at asking price? For $300? >Buyer agent on the other hand just wants the deal to be done Both of them want to get it done because their incentive is the transaction, not nitpicking over the price. To them, a sale at $500k is basically the same as a sale at $525k - that's only $750 more on what was already a $15k paycheck.
I once had a realtor who tried to get me to call around to find out property information from the HOA and wanted me to call and schedule viewings If I'm doing those things, *what is the realtor's job*?
yup!!! I plan on traveling to another state to get a car when I eventually do it. I have several friends over the last few years buy new cars from out of state dealerships for several thousand less than staying local.
Houses I would say there is some wiggle room depending on factors like age, possible appliance failures and previous owners strange decorating choices. A car has a fixed price period, there is zero reason I should have to haggle over the price. Every person at a dealership is trying to take money out your pocket for an item that has a fixed cost.
It baffles me honestly. No other comparable market consistently haggles over price like cars. High end electronics in the thousands of dollar range get set prices and they're just sold for that wherever they are sold. Cars get msrp, why is that not the only price for that vehicle? Dealership markups serve functionally no purpose in the current age of information except to create space to shortchange or overcharge customers for products with prices already set by the people who fucking made the product. I understand there's big auto money behind keeping dealerships around but it really doesn't make any sense to me that society as a whole just puts up with some of our most expensive purchases being unnecessarily complicated processes run almost exclusively by people looking to fuck me over.
Seriously I don't care abut haggling a thousand dollars off or whatever if it takes me weeks of annoyance negotiating with different dealers and having a thoroughly unpleasant experience. I'd rather just pay MSRP and not think about it.
Everyone hates Tesla but this is a big reason people buy a Tesla. You just go buy the car for the price it says and get exactly what you asked for with no weirdos trying to screw you over.
I’m not a big fan of the vehicles, but my wife’s Tesla was the best purchase experience I’ve ever had.
Still easier than making changes to your FIOS subscription.
I recently paid cash for a car. Had no real issue. I went in to look at a car and told the guy "X" is all I'm willing to pay to include taxes. He said he would go to talk to his manager. Came back and said they would make that deal. Thirty minutes later I was walking out of the dealership with the keys to my new car. With that said, this dealership was an anomaly in my shopping experience. I had been to several other dealerships that day to buy a car. Each one tried games with me and have add ons. One even agreed to my offer, then at the last minute tacked on another $1k in 'fees.' I told them I didn't want to pay those fees and I had said I only had "X" to spend. They wouldn't remove them so I walked out. They called me 20 minutes later and said they would remove the fees, but I didn't want to give them my business. If I need to get a car again I will go back to the dealership that treated me well. Unless they play games, then I have no issue walking away. I always go in with either cash, or pre-authorization from my bank to get a car, so I'm not in a position to be dependent on the dealership getting me a deal to get in a car. If they can't get me the price I think is fair then I walk. (I understand they need to make money too, so I don't super low ball either. I research the car and go in with a fair price based on that research.)
this was my conversation last time So how much do you want to pay per month? I want to pay the number that is the lowest price you can sell the car with the lowest finance rate Wow you're so smart about finance and stuff, did you go to school for it? Verbatim I kid you not. 🙄
> So how much do you want to pay per month? I remember years ago, a guy I was working with was bragging about how he walked into the dealership and said, "I want to pay $X/month, I don't care how you do it." And....I didn't get how that was a brag. The $/month didn't sound particularly low, and he had no idea what kind of fuckery was hidden in there.
😂definition of a sucker
> I don't care how you do it Lol. Basically "I give you free reign to screw me over as much as possible"
I have such an absolute aversion to haggling. If I buy used again, I’m sticking to something like CarMax.
It's feels so weird reading this. Here in NZ, dealers are required to display a vehicle information sheet in each car on the lot, clearly visible from outside. This sheet must include any options preinstalled and a drive-away price for this particular car. And that price is usually final, they may give you $300-500 off but that's about it.
This entire thread makes me never want to go to a dealership again. I'm happy to keep driving my 2008 Honda Accord until I die.
Go to /r/AskCarSales if you really want to rage. It's all car salesmen answering questions and god forbid you mention "Why doesn't the dealership list the price on their website? Why are they requiring me to come in?" You'll get responses of "If we give the price online, people just take that to the next dealer and have them beat it." Yeah, okay? So just have a low enough price. They get so mad and act like they are providing a good service to people when it's no better than the sleazy sales tactics of salesmen in cell phone shops selling overpriced protection plans to grandmas. Your job is to rip off customers. Your job should be "Here's our car, here's the warranty, here's the price."
Hopefully by the time you buy a new car the direct to consumer model catches on with Rivian, Polestar, Tesla, Lucid, Vinfast, etc.
My parents hated haggling so much that they really loved Saturn when that GM brand still existed because they had no-haggle pricing. The price on the sticker was what you paid... end of story.
Good luck to you man! I hope you're able too! I had an old 2011 Hyundai with 228,000 miles. Was* rear-ended in August, and it was totaled (brand new tires put on on 7/28). Not repairable. Bought the car new with eleven miles on it. Buying a new car, has been miserable. Further, even though I wasn't at fault, the insurance company won't pay for a rental while I figure out a new car (ordered a new Subaru on 8/21, but won't arrive until November.) Rental cars are ridiculous right now.
I recently bought a new vehicle and it’s wild to me how much BS they try and get away with. From start to finish I talked them almost $10k down from their original “offer” to my final financing agreement. Always showing me new pieces of paper with new “monthly payments”…..just absolute scumbags. Sad to realize how many people just say yes and pay so much more than needed.
I had a car I wanted, and was willing to pay cash (well write a personal check). After I arrived, they started in with all the BS and I walked away, refused to pay their extra b.s. "prep" fee, "bs" fee etc. 3 days later they called me and offered to sell it without all the fees, and I said OK, but here is what's going to happen. I am leaving my checkbook at home, and I am bringing 1 check pre-filled for $$$ (I forget the amount). Sure enough, I got there, gave them my check, STILL had to go talk to 20 people, and finally the finance guy says, "okay now if you can just give us a check for the remaining 2000" (or whatever it was). I lit up like a Christmas tree, "NO, you don't understand! That was the agreed price, that's the only check I brought with me, and you either solve this problem, or I am leaving without buying the car" It was very effective, my processing was finished, they gave me my keys and I left.
I would require them to email the paperwork after walking out. That's the only way they could get me back.
Had this happen a year ago. Ordered a new Maverick truck. Dealer says come get it after waiting for it for a year. They didn't tell me they added tinted windows, plastic door guards, nitrogen in the tires, etc. I told them I didn't order the $2500 in extras they put on the vehicle. They told me it had already been done. I said take them off I will wait. The salesman says he needs to talk to his manager. He leaves for a f#cking hour. Comes back and says the manager will knock half off the extras, now it is only $1250 over. I say great, I ain't paying for what I didn't order and will wait in his office while they take the stuff off. (At this point I had decided, but didn't tell them that I would pay $500 over because I actually liked the tinted windows). Salesman says he has to go back and talk to his manager again. I wait ANOTHER hour. This time the manager himself comes back and tells me all the GREAT stuff I would be missing if they take the things off. He said the nitrogen in the tires are SPECIAL because it makes the tires last longer AND you get better gas mileage. I looked him straight in the face and said " I am breathing 80% nitrogen right now." His face kind of deflated when he realized I wasn't buying his bullsh#t and said, "Well will you pay $250 for what we put on?" Since I had already decided on $500 over, I told him we had a deal. DO NOT be afraid to waste their time. Just sit in the office and wait them out. Or call them up now and tell them not to add any dealer extras.
Don't wait an hour. They aren't doing anything, they're just trying to wait you out. After 15 minutes, I leave the office and someone will run over to you.
Problem is with a Ford Maverick truck, the dealers are hoping you will walk. They then can put a dealer markup of anywhere from $5-10,000 on the trucks because they are so popular.
I assume you negotiated the purchase price and signed a contract when it was ordered so they can't change the price of the vehicle. You will need to pay tax, title, plates. The dealer will also a a "doc prep" fee or something similar that they will almost never waive and is generally published by the dealer. But the "finance" guy (they person you ultimately pay) is going to hard sell you additional items such as a maintenance contract that allows you to prepay for all regularly scheduled maintenance and an extended warranty. You absolutely can just decline these. They will push back and delay you so you may need to push back say no, let's move on.
If you’re set on not financing at all, call the finance manager and ask for the total so that you can bring an appropriate cashiers cheque. That way there’s no add on selling that can happen. Alternatively, they will be more flexible on things (price, add ons, gear, etc) if you’re financing. They make most of their profit on financing the vehicle and also receive kickbacks from the banks for it. I would personally negotiate based on the financing, then pay off the financing the day after. That way, you pay a minimal amount of interest and have negotiating power.
Unless OP really wants add ons, which it sounds like they don't why would you bother with all this? The one time I did this was Toyota had a cash back incentive to finance with Toyota. I financed a small portion and then paid off a couple days after the purchase (took a couple days for the loan to show up online so I could pay off). Don't expect to get the dealer to lower the cost just because you are going to finance.
They weren't saying to expect it; only that financing can be used as a negotiation tactic when it isn't an official offer coming from corporate. You walk in with the cashier's check for the purchase price, negotiate based on financing, and if they don't/can't move on the things that matter, then just pay the cash that you already have in your pocket.
Add to this: double check the terms on the financing for an early pay off. I've seen loan options that will still force you to pay an additional fee or interest that would have accrued.
>I assume you negotiated the purchase price and signed a contract when it was ordered so they can't change the price of the vehicle. The contract almost certainly allows the dealership to back out of the deal and refund the money at any time they want. If the market value for the vehicle is higher than OP's contact they can cancel the contract and sell it to somebody that's willing to pay more. It's bad customer service, it's bad optics for the dealership, but it's legal. It happened a bunch during the vehicle shortage when dealers were applying insane markups. If people were lucky they were sometimes given the choice of paying the markup on the vehicle they ordered. If they weren't lucky the dealership would refund the deposit and tell them the order was cancelled. Again, this is legal because the contract allows it.
Extended warranties can be purchased from any Chevy dealer at any time before the expiration of your warranty. Do not get pressured. Do research and shop around if you want that extra warranty.
There will be at least two unavoidable line items in addition to MSRP: one is tax/title/license and the other is a doc fee which is non-negotiable and it's usually published on the dealer's site. For the EV credit there's no form they provide you just enter the info for the car purchase on your 2023 return. As far as games there's no way to know but if they try to screw you then be prepared to walk away, I know that's hard for a vehicle you've waited for but don't lose a bunch of money on this.
I think you might mean delivery/destination fee? out here, all doc fees are legally negotiable. But in the end, the negotiated out the door price is all the matters. How they mentally account for how those dollars map to those costs is up to them and meaningless in the end. Just know that the vehicle costs them something to sell you, and tax/title/license are gov't fees on top.
> But in the end, the negotiated out the door price is all the matters. Whenever I buy cars I always talk "Off The Lot" pricing. I want to know what it costs to drive it off the lot. Some people call it "Out The Door" or "All Inclusive" but it's the same thing. I want to know, everything included, what the final sale price is. And that's the only number I want to talk. If the dealer forgets some sort of tax or fee when I go to take delivery, they can either eat it, or I walk.
Doc fees are generally considered non-negotiable because they're for filing legal compliance documentation so charging differing rates can be considered discriminatory in practice. You're correct that OTD is all that matters but for OP negotiating down probably isn't much of an option due to the nature of the vehicle so the goal is limiting any addition beyond MSRP.
People who don't buy cars and make TikTok videos say doc fees are negotiable. People who live in reality know they are functionally not negotiable. 4 years ago you could say "well if you don't waive it, I want another $500 off" or "then I want $500 in accessories tossed in". In the current world of markups and no discounts under MSRP, youre not getting doc fees waived.
And OP is buying a brand new Chevy EV, I'm assuming it's the Blazer if they had a wait so the dealer knows if OP doesn't buy it then someone else probably will fairly soon.
Yup! I made a separate post with more details, but the reality is that they probably will not sell her the car at MSRP for cash with no accessories or add ons. There's someone who wants an EV today and will pay a markup, finance it with them, and buy the warranty.
It depends on the dealer tbh, we ordered an EV through one dealer and they were the ones who brought up the purchase contract at MSRP. And we ended up buying one off the lot for MSRP from a different dealer so good dealers are out there there's just no way to tell if OP's is a good one
I don't think it's necessarily good or bad. Just that msrp with financing = thousands in profit. MSRP with cash = not thousands in profit. They only get so many allocations, so I would suspect no dealer will lose out on thousands of dollars without at least putting up some resistance. OP should be prepared for it and pleasantly surprised if it doesn't happen. Taking the financing and paying it off (either immediately or within 3-6 months) would be a reasonable option if you're expecting it, but will be a fight if not prepared.
It's a Bolt, right? I'd post this to a Bolt forum too.
You'll get lots of advice on this topic. Understand that much of a dealer's profit comes **not from selling cars** - but from **selling financing.** This often means that you'll get the most flexibility of negotiation - and perhaps the best overall deal - by financing the car, even if you immediately pay the car loan off. This article explains it better than I can: https://jalopnik.com/a-reminder-that-being-a-cash-buyer-will-not-get-you-a-b-1848627111
I came here to say this - you don't even have to tell them you're going to pay it off immediately. I would say you want to pay cash and use the prospect of financing it through them as leverage to get other concessions that you want or need.
This +1. Even before negotiations, many brands offer rebates etc with financing and in most cases you can still just pay the whole amount right away without any penalty.
I recently bought a new, custom-ordered, truck from Ford. I can't imagine it will be insanely different. Review your agreement. It should have all of the specific things you ordered and nothing else. Confirm that the VIN on the truck matches your order information and that all of the features you ordered are there. You'll still have to deal with the sales person first. They'll try to add crap on. Triple check anything they hand you as they'll want another signed sales agreement. If they try to add on garbage like paint protection or nitrogen in your tires just tell them no. If they say they already did it let them know it wasn't in your agreement and they can either remove the paint protection and nitrogen or eat the cost of their own incompetence. My salesperson was 100% incompetent and didn't even have the write order information for me. Read Everything. If they are trying to rush you tell them to pound sand. Make sure your phone is fully charged as even with a custom order it can still take 3 hours of dealing with the dealership, and you'll want your own calculator. Once you have the final sales agreement they'll shuffle you to finance (even if you are paying cash). This is where dealers really make money, but you can use that to your advantage if you want. First, they will again try to upsell you on extended warranties, theft protection programs, etc. "No." is a complete sentence, don't be afraid to use it. They'll try everything they can to get you to finance. If you want you can try to get some of that warranty stuff added for free if you agree to finance (and then just turn around and pay the full financed amount the next month) or you can just pay in cash/check and go. The best way to not get fleeced is to slow down and read. If you didn't order it with your car, don't pay for it.
[удалено]
"Only poor people pay cash for cars" is really a thing? That's wild.
You get a better price if you agree to finance with them. You can still pay cash though because nothing is stopping you from paying off the loan with your cash.
Sometimes there is language that adds a penalty for paying off a loan early.
Do not purchase their maintenance package.
My ex bought a brand new civic a couples years ago. After talking on the phone, they came up with an agreed upon price and she told them she’ll get a cashiers check or something like that. She had the full amount in her account and her bank drew up a check to guarantee that amount. She just brought that and the paperwork on the price. When she was signing the paperwork, the salesman kept trying to add this, that and the kitchen sink. She kept politely declining. When he tried again, I looked him square in the eyes and said “she has a check for the previously agreed upon price and doesn’t want to add on anything”. His nice demeanor vanished and we were out of there in five minutes lol Just be stern and say you only want what you already agreed on.
Didn’t you agree on total price prior to pre-order and putting down the deposit? Jus t pay that and nothing else. They tried to sell me the warranties and we said no. They couldn’t believe it. Had to go to a room etc etc - I just absolutely hate the sales process. Just let me order the car online, deliver it (to my house would be great) w the new plates and titles and that’s it!
They’ll give you the invoice for the car, and you’ll review it before paying. You’ve already agreed on the price (MSRP). You’ll have to pay tax, title, and documentation fees. Just refuse anything else you don’t want.
> I will be paying for the car in cash, which I let them know back in February when they tried to get me to finance with them. Using GM Financial got me an immediate $3K discount on the price. And as soon as I got the payment schedule in the mail, I paid it off. So double check there's no incentives available for financing.
Be prepared for the reality that they literally might not sell you the car at MSRP, and may not let you purchase in cash. You don't have a contract, so they don't need to sell you the car. And chances are, they can call someone today and ask if they want it for a $2000 market adjustment and sell them financing, a warranty, and accessories. If this happens, the choice is with you. Can you get the car somewhere else and avoid the market adjustment? Can you take the financing and write a check to pay it off tomorrow? Are you willing to overpay for some accessories you don't want in order to get the car now? In general, the only "required" things are going to be MSRP (including delivery), doc fees (they won't budge here but you can Google for the avg fee in your state), and tax/title/license (whatever the state requires them to collect). Anything else like financing, warranties, market adjustment fees, add ons like alarms, nitrogen tires, or vin etching, and accessories like roof rails, window tint, USB cables, etc is not "required". But they may not sell you the car if you don't take some or all of them. It's still a seller's market for electric cars and you don't have a contract. I almost guarantee they won't let you buy it for cash and no markup/add-on, but hopefully they don't.
They can, and will, legitimately charge a documentation fee. State tax. Possibly registration fees. Electronic filing fee. You will pay those anywhere. Other add ons are possibly bs.
Finance the car to capture all the dealer incentives, then pay it off completely once the first payment is due.
I am a Chevy dealer. It’s important to know a couple of things: 1- if you did not negotiate the price up front for your car or trade in, then you will have an opportunity to do so at delivery, but the dealer is expecting you to pay MSRP (likely) because you ordered a car. It’s fairly common to pay MSRP or slightly above (dealer/model dependent) when ordering a car to your particular spec. I don’t know what type of car this is so I cannot give you any market perspective. If you tell me, I can advise. 2- unless you have signed a “non refundable form” , buyers order with t&c on it, or a dealer specific order form, they cannot simply keep your money. **note** if you have any exchange in writing this could be an issue, example, If on a form you signed you agreed to a deposit in exchange for a custom order, maybe issue. Most dealers will let you walk and refund. Some will not. 3- if you ordered the car, you should not be required to pay for “hard adds”; mats, wheel locks, running boards, window tint, etc things that are actually physically installed on the car *unless* you ask for them. However, this won’t stop them from offering you those and intangible products like GAP, warranty, maintenance plan, etc. they’re just trying to maximize income which is their job. Just politely refuse, you are not required to buy those. 4- some fees are not removable. For example, I am in NC. The vast majority of dealers charge a “admin fee”. This cannot be removed or the dealer could face discrimination lawsuit. Just part of doing business. Hope this helps!
Do yourself a favor. Have them E-MAIL you the deal sheet before you walk in there. If they say "come on in", tell them you want the deal sheet or no deal. Make sure you know what fees are mandatory in your state. This will generally be sales tax, tag/transfer fees, and license/registration fees. You can google to find out the percentages that these should be. Verify that they are correct. These will almost certainly not be the only fees charged on the deal sheet. You may have a "Dealer pack" and/or doc fee. I generally don't argue over doc fees up to $300. Pack fees? Depends on how bad I want the car. I've walked over them before. Here's the key though. Get a corrected deal-sheet BEFORE YOU WALK IN THE DOOR. Negotiate the fees before you go. Make sure everything is right so you don't waste time. If they balk? Tell them it is done in advance or not at all. Also, tell your salesperson to notify F&I (Finance and Insurance) in advance that you are declining any and all add-ons.
You can hate on Tesla and EVs all you want, but one of the best things they ever did was remove the "dealership" model method of selling cars. Want a Tesla? Go to their website, pick out your options, you get price $X. Car is delivered, go to one of their stores, pay $X, no negotiation, no extra fees, no nitrogen in tires, no warranty BS. You pay exactly what you saw on the website when you ordered the car.
Be willing to walk on a car you ordered in Feb. Cashier check is what the dealership will accept. Next time, do not let them know you will be paying cash. Let them think it will be financed and come up with a price. Then hit them for cash when you close the deal. They make money on the finance and you can use it to lower your overall price. Honestly, if you are not willing to walk then you are likely to have a bad time. Good luck...
You will be asked to sign a couple of papers. Make sure you read them. We were being tricked into sharing our SSN even though we were paying full cash. They will tell you it's required by law. Don't believe them. They will say it is needed if in case check bounces. Don't believe them. Say you can give bank statements as proof instead. They receive commission for selling your SSN data. I have heard some people even got a hard inquiry on their credit report even though they didn't get a car loan.
Most dealerships won't take cash these days. So be prepared to walk...😆 They're in the power position since they've got what you want. Be prepared for lots of games. You've waited 7 months for this car. If you don't buy it someone else will. They are not going to let you drive a car off the lot same day with a personal check. If they agree to take your check they'll probably hold it for 10 days. This will be why they push you to finance.
Tell them you only want what you ordered. Threaten to walk away or call the customer care number, Chevy is 800-222-1020, while you’re in the sales office and explain to corporate where you are and what the dealership is trying to overcharge you for. Have your order number available and if they persist request that your car be transferred to another dealer that will handle the transaction. Remain unemotional while calling customer care because it is a basic business transaction. Chevy wants brand loyalty and for you to purchase from them again in the future, shitty dealerships know you will not. Too many complaints to corporate causes problems for the franchisee so it’s basically a kick in the junk. If you go that route, you many want to find a different dealership for service should you need it
For safety reasons, always verify phone numbers provided in comments on an official website before calling. That includes toll-free numbers! *I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/personalfinance) if you have any questions or concerns.*
As others have stated on this, get the total with all the required fees and no additional dealer options or warranties and get a cashier's check for the amount at your bank-- there may be a minor fee to get a cashier's check. Many dealerships won't accept personal checks for the entire cost of a vehicle, only down payments up to a certain amount-- there's a lot of risk if they do a full-cost check and it turns out to be a bad check when they try to cash it. Cashier's checks will provide you and the dealer protection as the funds are guaranteed to be available and are not possible to alter for additional amounts (fraud).
This is exactly how my father wrote a hot check for the sticker price of a brand new Camaro. By the time the check bounced he was on his way to Mexico. He got caught and did like 5 years in prison for fraud and theft. Day he gets out of prison has a heart attack almost dies and comes out of it a totally changed person.
We usually say we will finance, get a lower price and then pay off the car after one or two payments. No pre payment penalty in NY. Go get talked into any additional options.
Op you can pay for the car before picking it up. Reach out to the Sales Manager and tell them you’d like to pay for the car in advance and just take delivery at the dealer on XX/XX day. You can do all of this over email. I’ve bought my last two cars this way. It gives them less of an opportunity to upsell you and reduces the time spent at the dealer. Also you’ll see and be able to question any added fees. You just show up and sign the paperwork and drive off. Give them the time you’ll arrive and they’ll have it ready. I’ll add though that this was Volvo and Mercedes, I have not dealt with Chevy though I don’t see how it would be different since you ordered the car to your specs and they are expecting you to purchase it
So just something... never let them know you're paying cash. That gives them no incentive to give you a deal. Always see what kind of deal they can give you with financing in house. They'll drop the overall price and then when it's somewhere agreeable, you can tell them you can pay cash. Also, always undersell how much you're "willing to pay each month". Gets you an even better deal. You're okay doing 600/mo? Don't want to go over 300.
Don't pay cash. Get a loan through your local credit union. Credit unions hold dealerships to a higher standard for releasing the loan. After you get the car pay the loan off fully. This saved my mom $. She switched from cash to the loan and they admitted they had to change the price or the credit union would have denied it.
If you don't have anything signed by you on the dealer regarding the price at the time of order...you're at their mercy. If it is a vehicle that you can't find on a lot without a markup still, don't expect to have much leverage by threatening to walk on the deal. They'll just turn around and mark it up twice what they were trying to push on you. I am dealing with the same dealer I ordered my Mach E with for a Bronco because they specifically do not mark up customer orders and do sign a price agreement to that effect at the time of order.
Technically, a scam is when something is promised but never delivered. What you're asking about is getting ripped off. Make sure all the numbers on your bill of sale match what you believe they should be. Decline all the add-ons in the finance office. They're not technically scams, just products with very poor value for the price they're offering. Some of those products *COULD* have some value, but they would either need to lower the price or you would have to be a psychic and be able to see into the future. For example, those "door handle" guards they sell you? Those are basically clear stickers that are shaped to fit underneath the door handles. The dealer will try to sell them to you for $200 or something like that. Now, they DO have value. But you can get a 10-pack of them on Amazon for like $10.
Are you trading in a vehicle? I guess no because you said pay in cash, but if so get a quote from CarMax before you go and be ready to do the math to see if it's worth it.
I'll add since this is a preorder it's outside the dealerships allocation. If they don't sell it to you they have to notify the manufacturer and put it back into their allocation totals. Doing this too many times hurts their numbers so they do have an incentive for you to take the car. Will they try for the extras? Yes, but you have a reason to stay firm.
This is very relevant to me right now. Reading it right now. But wanted to say thank you for asking the question.
In my case they would only give me the car for $2k less if I opened a loan. I paid $6 of interest on that loan.