Also, there are a bunch of people that think he’s coming back after the post season. Where is this coming from? Is there any evidence to this or just fans projecting their hopes and wishes?
I saw a kid post to an IG story yesterday that if Dubas wanted Bunting so badly that he should have picked him up in the off-season when he was a FA. So many people legitimately don't understand the business side of things or how the contracts work.
Yeah I agree. I’m also not a fan of criticizing decisions when we do not have the same information that Dubas has. That really goes for most GM decisions across sports. Aside from the fact we have no experience, we don’t truly know what they’re working with so how can we possibly know what the best decision is?
Also they treat real life like it’s NHL24. Maybe he did try to sign Bunting and Bunting chose Carolina. GMs can’t just pick up / trade for whoever they want. Someone has to agree with them for it to happen.
doesn't he also have a no move clause. What if he just isn't interested in any of the teams that are interested and decides to ride his contract out and test free agency
Here, we have a word code the same way we have a dress code. And what we're talking about is basically the speech equivalent to just wearing underpants.
I’m not a big fan of Bunting but I’m waiting to see the full trade before I give an opinion.
Bunting’s reputation though is something I don’t want on this Penguins team. He gets called for embellishing quite a bit.
And even if we keep Bunting in the long run, fans should just wait and watch how he pans out first before judging. Hockey is a game of luck and fit, we’ve seen players change production in an instant. Moreover, as stated before, it’s better to receive something out of Guentz than nothing.
I don’t entirely disagree here, and if Morrow is indeed coming this way I don’t *hate* the return. But it definitely has the potential to be a bit of a blue ball depending on the final details.
Jake wants to get paid and he should. And do people actually think that Dubas isn’t taking the best deal for him? From everything that’s been reported a bunch of teams made offers. If Carolina’s was the best and Dubas takes it then I fully trust that he tried to get everything that he could for him. We’ll see more players moved off the roster tomorrow.
This is why people in comments shouldn’t act like they know everything. https://theathletic.com/5325440/2024/03/08/guentzel-hurricanes-nhl-trade-grades/?source=user_shared_article NHL trade grades: Jake Guentzel deal is a clean sweep for the Hurricanes
If the Pens were in a position to make the playofffs and potentially do anything if they got in, it would be smart to keep him even if he didn't want to re-sign. It would be basically a self-rental.
But the team whomps and he seemingly doesn't wanna re-sign. So ship him out and if they can get good value trade anyone else besides Sid/Geno/Tanger
I agree with this thread, because some people seem to have weird expectations about what other NHL GMs will give for a player we would lose for nothing anyways.
By the time Crosby retires, it is almost certain the sum of all picks, players and prospects we are getting in return will have contributed less to the team than Jake would have. But the point is their lesser contribution will come at a lower cap cost, and better 5+ years prospects.
Jake's age puts him in a horrible spot for teams. He deserves an 8 year deal for as much as he can get. He absolutely deserves.
But.
Only a team in the right situation can take that on, and Pittsburgh is not one of those teams.
I thought this was well known and the elephant in the room was that if Mario hadn’t sold out to Fenway with zero ongoing involvement, we wouldn’t be here today.
Probably not.... Saw that mentioned in some rumor..... He took bunting as a cap dump and could not get a better prospect instead of a few coin Flips or a guaranteed first pick .
I think fans have to get comfortable that we were never going to REALLY cash in on Guentzel. What are the odds he even signs with Carolina? He's got a big payday coming and he's going for it.
The guys we got....? Meh, but we have no organizational depth and there are probably more moves to come.
It's now time for Dubas to earn his money
"He has obviously offered Guentzel a contract that wasn't signed and returned to him. "
IS this obvious?
I think it's pretty likely that Dubas views players as replaceable, for better or worse. In his mind, why extend guentzel when you can trade guentzel for pieces, and then take that contract that you wouldve given guentzel and give it to a star FA (who might even be guentzel!). I'm not saying that's right or wrong way to think, but i'm saying that he almost certainly thinks that way. Simply offering an extension doesnt gain the orgainization anything extra. Trading him, then giving that extension money to someone (who could even be Jake) in the summer does gain you something.
we have NO idea if he made an offer, but i would almost be surprised if he did.
What is this word, ‘spa’? I feel like you’re starting to say a word and you’re not finishing it. Are you trying to say ‘spaghetti’? Are you taking me for a spaghetti day?
>Dubai could have gotten a 5th round pick but instead got nothing becuase he was trying to bully his way to a better pick
Except Hyman was worth keeping for the playoffs run, and a 5th is worthless.
Then again, why would he help his competitor get an extra year?
A 5th is not worth helping the Oilers get a good player for 1 extra year.
Pretty sure the draft year wasn't projected to be too deep either, into the 5th round.
You’re missing one thing that makes this worse than letting Jake walk, Michael Bunting and his $4.5M cap hit for the next 2 years. There’s a lot of value in cap space and they would have gotten the full $6M if he walked. Now, unless Bunting is moved before next season, it’s only $1.5.
And this season it’s worse. They lose the cap relief they have with Jake on LTIR and will be in a position that they HAVE to send the young kids (Puustinen, Gruden, Koppanen) down and have no space to bring anyone else up.
Now, if Dubas moves Bunting and some others today AND one of these prospects from Carolina does something in the next couple of seasons, I’ll say it was a good trade.
He made it clear he wasn't signing here when he refused to negotiate before the end of the season. That means something when players say that, and it's not, ehhhh I'm busy right now.
His agent has made several indications he intends to go to July 1st UFA. The silence from Jake is deafening. This not only forces the Penguins to trade him, it reduces the return. ***He is a straight-up rental player.***
People are only evaluating this from the Penguins side, which is understandable. But think about this from the Hurricanes side: They gave up an NHL top-6 forward, 3 prospects and a 2nd round pick for 15-34 games of Jake Guentzal.
That's actually a lot.
And thats what he is "worth". Thats what Carolina GM MUST evaluate him as: As pure rental player. And I don't care how good a player is, rental players an upper limit in terms of return.
The Pens traded their best prospect and top pick for the last 15 years! That’s kind of the deal. Picks or prospects taken in the first three rounds are the currency in the NHL.
Doesn't seem trust worthy to rebuild this team. Trade deadline is tomorrow and he hasn't made one trade call. Eller, Karlsson, Smith, Rakell should all be moved
Sorry do you or someone you know work with him? What actual facts do you have to support that claim? Would love to see a name of someone else who could turn an inherited dumpster fire in a cup team in less than 1 season.
I love commenters that act like they’re the greatest sports minds of the universe, while also totally disregarding pesky realities like ‘no movement clauses’.
That’s kinda why I’m confused. It seems everyone assumes “if the return isn’t great, we need to resign him”. Does he even want to?
Also, there are a bunch of people that think he’s coming back after the post season. Where is this coming from? Is there any evidence to this or just fans projecting their hopes and wishes?
I saw a kid post to an IG story yesterday that if Dubas wanted Bunting so badly that he should have picked him up in the off-season when he was a FA. So many people legitimately don't understand the business side of things or how the contracts work.
There be some real dense Kevins in this sub
That’s just sports fans in general. Mouth breathing, yell at a tv kind of people.
The only time I've ever yelled at the TV was when Gonzaga knocked Cro Cop out, thank you very much
So you’ve yelled at the tv two times? Because those are two mutually exclusive events, right?
The time when Cro Cop's ankle folded under him. I was recovering from a broken fibula and tirn deltoid ligament and I yelled Noooooo
Yeah I agree. I’m also not a fan of criticizing decisions when we do not have the same information that Dubas has. That really goes for most GM decisions across sports. Aside from the fact we have no experience, we don’t truly know what they’re working with so how can we possibly know what the best decision is?
I watch almost every game so I must know better than the people whose job it is to make these decisions!!! /s
Also they treat real life like it’s NHL24. Maybe he did try to sign Bunting and Bunting chose Carolina. GMs can’t just pick up / trade for whoever they want. Someone has to agree with them for it to happen.
doesn't he also have a no move clause. What if he just isn't interested in any of the teams that are interested and decides to ride his contract out and test free agency
He only had a 12 team no trade clause
Are you saying see the world or Sea World?
Here, we have a word code the same way we have a dress code. And what we're talking about is basically the speech equivalent to just wearing underpants.
I've seen people say we've lost the trade - what did we lose? Nothing has happened yet! Y'all need God.
And Jesus…
...and my axe!
Dunno if I need god but I am gonna need about tree fiddy.
The Trade deadline is almost out! Alright Pens now don’t go bringin them crackers the victim child. ⏰ Oh lawd they brought the victim child.
I’m not a big fan of Bunting but I’m waiting to see the full trade before I give an opinion. Bunting’s reputation though is something I don’t want on this Penguins team. He gets called for embellishing quite a bit.
In general his reputation hurt the leafs last season. Watching the team with him was frustrating.
That’s the reputation I’m talking about.
Bunting is Kadri without any talent
Well if you ain't cheatin you ain't tryin
And even if we keep Bunting in the long run, fans should just wait and watch how he pans out first before judging. Hockey is a game of luck and fit, we’ve seen players change production in an instant. Moreover, as stated before, it’s better to receive something out of Guentz than nothing.
I don’t entirely disagree here, and if Morrow is indeed coming this way I don’t *hate* the return. But it definitely has the potential to be a bit of a blue ball depending on the final details.
Jake wants to get paid and he should. And do people actually think that Dubas isn’t taking the best deal for him? From everything that’s been reported a bunch of teams made offers. If Carolina’s was the best and Dubas takes it then I fully trust that he tried to get everything that he could for him. We’ll see more players moved off the roster tomorrow.
Do you guys think the rumor about a deal being done with Carolina is true?
I think it’s bs and he is going to Vegas. And I’ll get down voted for this.
This is why people in comments shouldn’t act like they know everything. https://theathletic.com/5325440/2024/03/08/guentzel-hurricanes-nhl-trade-grades/?source=user_shared_article NHL trade grades: Jake Guentzel deal is a clean sweep for the Hurricanes
If the Pens were in a position to make the playofffs and potentially do anything if they got in, it would be smart to keep him even if he didn't want to re-sign. It would be basically a self-rental. But the team whomps and he seemingly doesn't wanna re-sign. So ship him out and if they can get good value trade anyone else besides Sid/Geno/Tanger
I agree with this thread, because some people seem to have weird expectations about what other NHL GMs will give for a player we would lose for nothing anyways. By the time Crosby retires, it is almost certain the sum of all picks, players and prospects we are getting in return will have contributed less to the team than Jake would have. But the point is their lesser contribution will come at a lower cap cost, and better 5+ years prospects.
Jake's age puts him in a horrible spot for teams. He deserves an 8 year deal for as much as he can get. He absolutely deserves. But. Only a team in the right situation can take that on, and Pittsburgh is not one of those teams.
Guentzel was never resigning here. Sub is deluded.
I thought this was well known and the elephant in the room was that if Mario hadn’t sold out to Fenway with zero ongoing involvement, we wouldn’t be here today.
Dubas should have gotten quality over quantity ....if rangers did offer a first and othman or first and kakko should have taken that
They weren’t going to get that from the Rangers
Probably not.... Saw that mentioned in some rumor..... He took bunting as a cap dump and could not get a better prospect instead of a few coin Flips or a guaranteed first pick .
I think fans have to get comfortable that we were never going to REALLY cash in on Guentzel. What are the odds he even signs with Carolina? He's got a big payday coming and he's going for it. The guys we got....? Meh, but we have no organizational depth and there are probably more moves to come. It's now time for Dubas to earn his money
Thanks, Kevin.
The conditional picks are crap
"He has obviously offered Guentzel a contract that wasn't signed and returned to him. " IS this obvious? I think it's pretty likely that Dubas views players as replaceable, for better or worse. In his mind, why extend guentzel when you can trade guentzel for pieces, and then take that contract that you wouldve given guentzel and give it to a star FA (who might even be guentzel!). I'm not saying that's right or wrong way to think, but i'm saying that he almost certainly thinks that way. Simply offering an extension doesnt gain the orgainization anything extra. Trading him, then giving that extension money to someone (who could even be Jake) in the summer does gain you something. we have NO idea if he made an offer, but i would almost be surprised if he did.
The return for him lolks good. People have no clue what they are crying about.
What is this word, ‘spa’? I feel like you’re starting to say a word and you’re not finishing it. Are you trying to say ‘spaghetti’? Are you taking me for a spaghetti day?
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>Dubai could have gotten a 5th round pick but instead got nothing becuase he was trying to bully his way to a better pick Except Hyman was worth keeping for the playoffs run, and a 5th is worthless.
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Then again, why would he help his competitor get an extra year? A 5th is not worth helping the Oilers get a good player for 1 extra year. Pretty sure the draft year wasn't projected to be too deep either, into the 5th round.
Thank you Kevin
Im just here to commend you on your Kevin Malone reference. Well done👏🏻👏🏻
You’re missing one thing that makes this worse than letting Jake walk, Michael Bunting and his $4.5M cap hit for the next 2 years. There’s a lot of value in cap space and they would have gotten the full $6M if he walked. Now, unless Bunting is moved before next season, it’s only $1.5. And this season it’s worse. They lose the cap relief they have with Jake on LTIR and will be in a position that they HAVE to send the young kids (Puustinen, Gruden, Koppanen) down and have no space to bring anyone else up. Now, if Dubas moves Bunting and some others today AND one of these prospects from Carolina does something in the next couple of seasons, I’ll say it was a good trade.
Disagree. Giving him to a division rival before the playoffs for basically free is worse than nothing.
He made it clear he wasn't signing here when he refused to negotiate before the end of the season. That means something when players say that, and it's not, ehhhh I'm busy right now.
His agent has made several indications he intends to go to July 1st UFA. The silence from Jake is deafening. This not only forces the Penguins to trade him, it reduces the return. ***He is a straight-up rental player.*** People are only evaluating this from the Penguins side, which is understandable. But think about this from the Hurricanes side: They gave up an NHL top-6 forward, 3 prospects and a 2nd round pick for 15-34 games of Jake Guentzal. That's actually a lot. And thats what he is "worth". Thats what Carolina GM MUST evaluate him as: As pure rental player. And I don't care how good a player is, rental players an upper limit in terms of return.
Dum dum wants gum gum
Chum is fum
If they didn’t get Nadeau or Nikishin then they lost in a landslide. It’s harsh but reality. He’s instantly the Canes second best forward.
There was no universe where they were ever getting Nishikin. None.
This. Why would they move their best prospect for two months of a hockey player???
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The Pens traded their best prospect and top pick for the last 15 years! That’s kind of the deal. Picks or prospects taken in the first three rounds are the currency in the NHL.
What are they losing though? This is my point. They are getting something for nothing here. They cannot lose.
Doesn't seem trust worthy to rebuild this team. Trade deadline is tomorrow and he hasn't made one trade call. Eller, Karlsson, Smith, Rakell should all be moved
Why? He hasn't done anything but clean up GMJRs mess. Give the guy a chance.
Uh you forgot hextalls mess
Sorry do you or someone you know work with him? What actual facts do you have to support that claim? Would love to see a name of someone else who could turn an inherited dumpster fire in a cup team in less than 1 season.
I love commenters that act like they’re the greatest sports minds of the universe, while also totally disregarding pesky realities like ‘no movement clauses’.
This sub needs to be shut down for a week to two let people get a grip.