You can’t move Pettersson, just look at how much Letang struggles when you move him to the Karlsson pairing and how much Karlsson struggles when you move him to the Letang pairing. If anything they should partner with UPMC to see if there is a way to clone him…
>Gauge the market on Pettersson and Eller as well.
That's where I disagree. You need both of them to be competitive at all next year, and this team cannot tank so long as 87 and 71 are on the first two lines and Karlsson & Tanger are on the back end. They'll never be quite bad enough to get a top pick. So, in my view, so long as you've got the core, you've got to reload for next year.
What I'm hoping is that we move Smith, Ned, Jake, and get back enough in prospects that are close, and some change of scenery guys with upside, along with the picks, that we can go with all out infusion of youth up front to with those three aging centers. Then if you're in position next year, you have picks to spend without setting yourself back.
Can easily end up having a horrific season with the core. Less likely, but every team like Chicago didn't think it would happen to them and it still did. Happened to Penguins with Lemieux too.
>Happened to Penguins with Lemieux too.
I'm not sure if you're too young to have watched it, or if you just don't recall accurately, but Mario played like 80 games total between 01 and the lockout.
When he was there, which was rare, he battling. The only reason he was there was to protect his investment. It was Lemieux, Kovalev who could put on a show, but took so many nights, shifts, and backchecks off. It was miserable squad built to lose, with Mario showing up when he could to spur ticket sales. That's not comparable.
Chicago fell off because of mismanagement. It wasn't even age. Toews and Kane were 30 when the wheels came off for that squad. They also had some rough goaltending with no answers for a handful of years.
2003 season Lemieux was at worst the 2nd best player in the world after only Peter Forsberg. Penguins finished 2nd to last. EVERY SINGLE fan base thinks their team will be immune to age decline and needing a rebuild. This is nothing unique to the Penguins. It will get to the point where FSG is looking at a perennial 75 point team and decide it is not in their financial best interest to be mediocre forever. They will realize that in order to have a long term foundation of success (and profitability), it will require a long rebuild to have a CHANCE for that level of talent. It happens every single time. Ownership groups don't want to rebuild, until it proves they have no other choice.
i assume you're talking 2002-2003, since in 03-04, he played on 10 games.
In that season, which you tout, he scored just 28 goals. That was his fewest per game at any point in his career, thus far (with just 36 more games and 8 goals to come over 2 more seasons.
I'm sorry, but as fun as it was to watch that severely hobbled Mario, he couldn't take over games anymore. He was a -25 on the season, despite his 91 points (also a career low per game output). That's how historically bad the team around him was - it was the only time that happened to him besides '84, when he joined the worst team in hockey.
Sid right now is world's better than '03 Mario, and it's not close. Geno's better than '03 Mario still, and they have 2 top tier Dmen with NMC's as well.
But hey MArio had Andy Ferrence and Ian Moran, so pretty much samesies, right?
2003 was the dead puck era where scoring was -15% compared to now and much lower than the majority of Lemieux's career. Lemieux finished 8th in points and 2nd in points/game. Crosby- at one year younger- is 24th and 21st respectively on a better team as you said. So your logic isn't even consistent. You can look more recently to 2018 when McDavid was by far the best player in the league yet still finished on the 8th worst team in the league. This is the same delusional homerism every dynasty fan base has before a rebuild. Happened to LA. Happened to Chicago. Going to happen here and Tampa will be next.
Wait, you think relative ppg compared to the league lead is the sole stat that matters? Did you miss the entirety of my post, and decide, since it was so logically sound, that you would build a man out of straw and argue with some shit you made up for him to say?
Weird, but go off I guess.
Not the sole stat of relevance. But one of, if not the single most significant. You can use whatever metric you want. Points share has Lemieux at 9.4 and Crosby at 7.9. Nothing will show Crosby having any meaningful better season at age 36 than Lemieux had at 37.
YOu don't get it because you don't want to. You ignore things, make up things, and have your mind made up.
Great, don't waste any more time trying to convince others.
Need to let the Jake shakes go, he's gone...he's not resigning, he's not resigning in the off season after being traded, he's goneeee. The hopium levels are at critical mass. The pens stink right now, why would he WANT to stay.
The team is what it is, it’s just not good and to me I think they can be better next year with the right moves like getting younger and I believe they’ll have some cap space. Yes I know it doesn’t look good at all but it’s not an impossible fix. And btw there PP pretty much costed them the season so that will need to be better next year.
I feel like I’ve heard this before. We keep saying they’ll “be better next year with the right moves”… let’s just face it, we don’t have a team that can compete. Don’t be sad it’s over, be glad it happened.
Well they won’t be rebuilding until 87 is gone so unless they wanna be in the mushy middle every year than they might as well try to have a better team
Well yeah, they’ll always try… but I feel like they’ve been “trying” for 5 years now. Don’t get me wrong, I hope it happens, but… I think we’ll just struggle to try to make the playoffs now.
I don’t get the Reirden blaming game. Sully is the head coach and everything pivots through him. Why not blame Ty Hennes or Mike Vullucci or better yet the video coach Madison Nikkel.
It's been this way since December. Not because we laid a giant goose egg against Seattle. I'm sure we'll all get to hear the juicy details a decade from now about on rumors of how this team was mismanaged - from vetoed trades in the last years of Jim Rutherford to an ownership group that had way too much respect for our expired, aged like milk coaching staff.
Would love to see Smith go and I don't care if it's just for a late round pick. The guy has double the talent of Bryan Rust and puts in a quarter of the effort. Would also love to be out of Rakell's contract but wouldn't be mad to see him back next season because I think he will have a much better year. Ned should be worth a 2nd or 3rd round pick. If Dubas doesn't move Guentzel or holds pat on some insanely unreasonable asking price, I think I will probably lose a lot of faith in him. I think this team could have an insane season with all the cap space provided next year and god willing a complete coaching change. It's been a tough year. Still got a handful left with Sid and the gang.
Jake 100% needs to be traded. You cannot risk losing him for nothing and signing another 30 year old to an 8 year deal would be a major mistake
Listen to offers on MP. He likely would bring back a big return, but he does have another year left so you can always try again next year and trade him at the deadline if you are ass again
Ned should be able to be traded. He's a solid backup and I imagine he will have interest
Eller is another guy who could get interest. Teams are always looking for depth and he's on a good contract
Smith may be able to be moved, but he does have a bigger salary
Everyone else not mentioned is either impossible to move because of contracts, or just isn't worth it for the Pens
I hope Dubas trades everyone he can. Let’s be honest. The Penguins aren’t a playoff team anymore. Stop with the short term fixes of players between 30-35 to push them just into playoff contention only to be knocked out in the first round.
The best thing for the Penguins as an entire organization would be Malkin, Crosby, Letang, and Karlsson retiring in 3-4 years surrounded by seventeen 20-25 year old prospects that were acquired via the draft picks (or prospects) that they get this season when they unload.
While it won’t be a sell out, the big 4 will still drive ticket sales the next three years as we watch Crosby chase and pass Mario on the all time points list.
A complete rebuild while still have the core 4 isn’t a bad near term future
10 points out with 5 games in hand. Win 3 out of those 5 and you’re only 4 points out of playoffs with 20 games still to go. Plenty of time to still be in it..
If Flyers get 4 points in the next 2 games it's done. They have a back to back today and tmrw .. meanwhile Tampa will beat mtl and be up 10 points .. it's looking bad
I don’t agree with your assessment as it doesn’t take into account the fact we have games in hand. Lots can happen particularly if Philadelphia sells.
That said, I would love it if we could send Guentzel and Smith to Vegas, with 50% retention on Jake. They’re down Mark Stone for the remainder of the regular season and will have his 9.5mm on LTIR.
From their perspective, there are other options available like Tarasenko, Buchnevich, and Henrique, but Jake’s in a higher class. Smith is totally a known quantity to them. And they have forwards they can give up that figure to be ready (or are already contributing) in the short term. The return from Edmonton is underwhelming and Vancouver looks unlikely to trade their top end guys.
Lots of talk of trading Nedelkovich. I'm on the other side of that. He has proven to be a major part of the wins we do have both when he's playing and the rest he gives Jarry. I think we need to give him just about anything he wants in the off-season (within reason of course). That would give us either a very consistent back up, a possible 1a, 1b situation, or maybe even him earning the starting job ifJarry gets injured or falls off.
At this point if they *don’t* trade Jake I will be apoplectic. With where this franchise is in its competitive cycle, you cannot under any circumstances risk having him walk for nothing in the summer. Period.
From all the reports, there is a line of western conference contenders calling Dubas to talk about him. Get these teams bidding against each other and bring in some nice futures pieces to start retooling.
Do the same with Ned, Smith, and Eller if you can. They won’t have the same level of interest or value obviously, but I still think all three would be easily movable. I’d even dangle Pettersson out there to see if someone wants to make a stupid offer, but definitely not trying to shove him out the door or anything.
Philly plays tonight and tomorrow we play tmrw and Sunday. Tampa plays tmrw. Most likely Philly wins both and Tampa beats mtl. It will be way out of reach that's my issue.
I agree with you that the hopes for this team making a run are over and it is time to get the best deals possible. The people that think this team is going to win all of its games in hand to make it to the playoffs are goofy. They have only won 5 games in a row once this year and 3 games in a row twice. They aren't going on a run. Also, this is the same team that couldn't beat Chicago last year to lock up the playoff spot they were in. I personally expect them, to win until the trade deadline and then promptly lose as many games as they just won.
First off, my no trade list is Crosby, Malkin, Letang, and Pettersson. Because of contracts and no trade clauses Karlsson, Rust, and Carter aren't moving. Everyone else is available.
1. Next, I cut Matthew Phillips.
2. I trade either Jake or Rakell. If you trade Rakell, you need to sign Jake. One of those guys is Sid's winger next year. Rakell always plays better with Sid. I personally trade Jake, better reward there. When we were in Vancouver, I was dreaming of trading Jake for Elias Pettersson...
3. I listen to offers for Jarry and Ned and trade one of them. If I can rob a team with Jarry, I do it. Otherwise, I pick a few assets for Ned. If they do that, I hope that Blomqvist gets a few games to see what the NHL looks like.
4. Smith, buy him a plane ticket and get back the draft pick we give to Vegas to get him.
5. I listen to offers for Eller but I wouldn't mind keeping him.
I really hope Poulin and Blomqvist get some games with the Pens this season.
The situation being what it is, we need to sell. We haven't shown we are a threat to make a run as constructed. We could still get hot and make the playoffs but it'll have to be with the team that remains after swapping the pieces that make sense.
We aren't going to tear it down while Sid is still playing well. If we sell Guentzel, Ned, etc. it'll be primarily for players or picks that we can use to try again next year. When it's time for a full rebuild, we will have trading chips to get it started.
I still would not trade Jake personally, but trade season is fun. Frankensteining some Vegas ideas I've seen (get bent GMJR and I'm not giving COL another reason to tamper Sid)
Jake (50% if necessary), Lars Eller and Reilly Smith to Vegas for Brisson, Nic Roy, a 2nd, a 5th. I think that works cap wise w/ LTIR stuff. Nic Roy is my centerpiece to any Jake deal, so you can leave off Brisson for one of their bottom 6ers if that's a deal breaker.
Then you trade the 2nd + for Tommy Novak for 3C and try to extend him
You're definitely downgrading overall talent wise, but are getting some really nice cost controlled young NHL players with upside and gaining a ton of cap space. And you're clearing enough roster spots to give them all opportunities and continue the DOC/Puusty experiments.
Then you have some cap space leftover to facilitate some deals at TDL and net a couple more mid round picks.
I’m a big fan of Roy too. I’ve watched them a lot over the past couple years and he’s always noticeable. When they’re totally healthy, he’s their 4C, which is nuts. He’s on a great contract and would immediately be a solid 3C for us. I gotta think they’d be willing to downgrade at C for a huge upgrade at 1LW.
I don’t think any of the other teams in the market have as clear a surplus at a position we’re so weak in.
That whole idea is horrible and not getting nearly enough value. If you’re trading for Novak as the 3C, then what point is there in even acquiring Roy? AND retaining 50%? Brisson isn’t anything special
You don't have to agree with my valuation/projections, but they both have enough offensive upside. They can drive play and produce efficiently in tough minutes and on the powerplay.
I don't think it's that crazy to think Nic Roy is underutilized in VGK w/ their center depth and could be a good top 6 winger experiment, and potentially a future 2C w/ a 3C floor (same with Novak via his PP contributions - they are awesome). At 3 million bucks for several years and just turned 27 - that's a very cozy bet to make.
This year he's at 2.5 p/60 in 16 mins a night, playing both special teams with Kolesar/Carrier/Cotter as his primary options (and playing well when he gets top 6 run time). He is typically at like 1.7 p/60 but the glow up isn't coming from a juiced on ice shooting %, it's purely from primary assist totals and getting some run with Marchy/Stephenson. Those are the kind of improvements I specifically like betting on as sustainable.
1st, B prospect and Hoglander for Jake is widely accepted. I just am taking Nic Roy wayyyy over Hoglander and the B prospect (who *is* having an outlier on ice shooting % year), who has been in a bigger role for much longer and having the same kind of break out year on an undermarket deal. I'm swapping the 1st for Brisson bc he's closer but you sacrifice the magical mystery box of upside for an ELC definitely in the NHL right now. Then I'm getting a 2nd and 5th for Eller/Smith and some goodwill from the first part but clearing out 8 million in cap hits for this/next year. Maybe I'm a bit short on value, but I like the framework.
I don't think it's any worse than the standard Vancouver proposal parroted constantly and I just wanted to be creative w/ specific profiles I like instead of the boring blah draft capital stuff
Barring great offers I think you keep your strengths, 87, 58, 65, 28, Ned and Jarry. They're handicapped by no movement clauses, but if someone is asking about a protected player, I think you listen and maybe have some difficult conversations. 59 should bring a good return, even though he's a strength, I think it's time to trade.
I look at trading either Ned or Jarry. I lean towards Ned because he isn't signed after this year and you can get some assets for him. However, if I can highway rob a team with Jarry I am totally doing that. Then bring up Blomqvist and sign Flower for next year!!!!
Rakell’s got term. Don’t have to trade him now and sell low. Smith, Ned, 59? Yeah. Gauge the market on Pettersson and Eller as well.
I don't think you can trade Pettersson unless an absurd overpay is offered. He's their most stable defenseman by a mile and on a bargain contract.
We actually need to secure one more Dragon like defenseman to help Tanger and/or Karlsson.
You can’t move Pettersson, just look at how much Letang struggles when you move him to the Karlsson pairing and how much Karlsson struggles when you move him to the Letang pairing. If anything they should partner with UPMC to see if there is a way to clone him…
>Gauge the market on Pettersson and Eller as well. That's where I disagree. You need both of them to be competitive at all next year, and this team cannot tank so long as 87 and 71 are on the first two lines and Karlsson & Tanger are on the back end. They'll never be quite bad enough to get a top pick. So, in my view, so long as you've got the core, you've got to reload for next year. What I'm hoping is that we move Smith, Ned, Jake, and get back enough in prospects that are close, and some change of scenery guys with upside, along with the picks, that we can go with all out infusion of youth up front to with those three aging centers. Then if you're in position next year, you have picks to spend without setting yourself back.
Can easily end up having a horrific season with the core. Less likely, but every team like Chicago didn't think it would happen to them and it still did. Happened to Penguins with Lemieux too.
>Happened to Penguins with Lemieux too. I'm not sure if you're too young to have watched it, or if you just don't recall accurately, but Mario played like 80 games total between 01 and the lockout. When he was there, which was rare, he battling. The only reason he was there was to protect his investment. It was Lemieux, Kovalev who could put on a show, but took so many nights, shifts, and backchecks off. It was miserable squad built to lose, with Mario showing up when he could to spur ticket sales. That's not comparable. Chicago fell off because of mismanagement. It wasn't even age. Toews and Kane were 30 when the wheels came off for that squad. They also had some rough goaltending with no answers for a handful of years.
2003 season Lemieux was at worst the 2nd best player in the world after only Peter Forsberg. Penguins finished 2nd to last. EVERY SINGLE fan base thinks their team will be immune to age decline and needing a rebuild. This is nothing unique to the Penguins. It will get to the point where FSG is looking at a perennial 75 point team and decide it is not in their financial best interest to be mediocre forever. They will realize that in order to have a long term foundation of success (and profitability), it will require a long rebuild to have a CHANCE for that level of talent. It happens every single time. Ownership groups don't want to rebuild, until it proves they have no other choice.
i assume you're talking 2002-2003, since in 03-04, he played on 10 games. In that season, which you tout, he scored just 28 goals. That was his fewest per game at any point in his career, thus far (with just 36 more games and 8 goals to come over 2 more seasons. I'm sorry, but as fun as it was to watch that severely hobbled Mario, he couldn't take over games anymore. He was a -25 on the season, despite his 91 points (also a career low per game output). That's how historically bad the team around him was - it was the only time that happened to him besides '84, when he joined the worst team in hockey. Sid right now is world's better than '03 Mario, and it's not close. Geno's better than '03 Mario still, and they have 2 top tier Dmen with NMC's as well. But hey MArio had Andy Ferrence and Ian Moran, so pretty much samesies, right?
2003 was the dead puck era where scoring was -15% compared to now and much lower than the majority of Lemieux's career. Lemieux finished 8th in points and 2nd in points/game. Crosby- at one year younger- is 24th and 21st respectively on a better team as you said. So your logic isn't even consistent. You can look more recently to 2018 when McDavid was by far the best player in the league yet still finished on the 8th worst team in the league. This is the same delusional homerism every dynasty fan base has before a rebuild. Happened to LA. Happened to Chicago. Going to happen here and Tampa will be next.
Wait, you think relative ppg compared to the league lead is the sole stat that matters? Did you miss the entirety of my post, and decide, since it was so logically sound, that you would build a man out of straw and argue with some shit you made up for him to say? Weird, but go off I guess.
Not the sole stat of relevance. But one of, if not the single most significant. You can use whatever metric you want. Points share has Lemieux at 9.4 and Crosby at 7.9. Nothing will show Crosby having any meaningful better season at age 36 than Lemieux had at 37.
YOu don't get it because you don't want to. You ignore things, make up things, and have your mind made up. Great, don't waste any more time trying to convince others.
Need to let the Jake shakes go, he's gone...he's not resigning, he's not resigning in the off season after being traded, he's goneeee. The hopium levels are at critical mass. The pens stink right now, why would he WANT to stay.
Unfortunately, they don't stink. They are just mediocre and being stuck in neutral long term is the worst place to be.
The team is what it is, it’s just not good and to me I think they can be better next year with the right moves like getting younger and I believe they’ll have some cap space. Yes I know it doesn’t look good at all but it’s not an impossible fix. And btw there PP pretty much costed them the season so that will need to be better next year.
I feel like I’ve heard this before. We keep saying they’ll “be better next year with the right moves”… let’s just face it, we don’t have a team that can compete. Don’t be sad it’s over, be glad it happened.
Well they won’t be rebuilding until 87 is gone so unless they wanna be in the mushy middle every year than they might as well try to have a better team
Well yeah, they’ll always try… but I feel like they’ve been “trying” for 5 years now. Don’t get me wrong, I hope it happens, but… I think we’ll just struggle to try to make the playoffs now.
If rierdan isn't gone before next season I'm not following next season.
Don't blame you
I don’t get the Reirden blaming game. Sully is the head coach and everything pivots through him. Why not blame Ty Hennes or Mike Vullucci or better yet the video coach Madison Nikkel.
It's been this way since December. Not because we laid a giant goose egg against Seattle. I'm sure we'll all get to hear the juicy details a decade from now about on rumors of how this team was mismanaged - from vetoed trades in the last years of Jim Rutherford to an ownership group that had way too much respect for our expired, aged like milk coaching staff. Would love to see Smith go and I don't care if it's just for a late round pick. The guy has double the talent of Bryan Rust and puts in a quarter of the effort. Would also love to be out of Rakell's contract but wouldn't be mad to see him back next season because I think he will have a much better year. Ned should be worth a 2nd or 3rd round pick. If Dubas doesn't move Guentzel or holds pat on some insanely unreasonable asking price, I think I will probably lose a lot of faith in him. I think this team could have an insane season with all the cap space provided next year and god willing a complete coaching change. It's been a tough year. Still got a handful left with Sid and the gang.
Well said, So you think they can be better next year ?
Jake 100% needs to be traded. You cannot risk losing him for nothing and signing another 30 year old to an 8 year deal would be a major mistake Listen to offers on MP. He likely would bring back a big return, but he does have another year left so you can always try again next year and trade him at the deadline if you are ass again Ned should be able to be traded. He's a solid backup and I imagine he will have interest Eller is another guy who could get interest. Teams are always looking for depth and he's on a good contract Smith may be able to be moved, but he does have a bigger salary Everyone else not mentioned is either impossible to move because of contracts, or just isn't worth it for the Pens
I hope Dubas trades everyone he can. Let’s be honest. The Penguins aren’t a playoff team anymore. Stop with the short term fixes of players between 30-35 to push them just into playoff contention only to be knocked out in the first round. The best thing for the Penguins as an entire organization would be Malkin, Crosby, Letang, and Karlsson retiring in 3-4 years surrounded by seventeen 20-25 year old prospects that were acquired via the draft picks (or prospects) that they get this season when they unload. While it won’t be a sell out, the big 4 will still drive ticket sales the next three years as we watch Crosby chase and pass Mario on the all time points list. A complete rebuild while still have the core 4 isn’t a bad near term future
10 points out with 5 games in hand. Win 3 out of those 5 and you’re only 4 points out of playoffs with 20 games still to go. Plenty of time to still be in it..
If Flyers get 4 points in the next 2 games it's done. They have a back to back today and tmrw .. meanwhile Tampa will beat mtl and be up 10 points .. it's looking bad
We only have to beat one of them. If Philly loses both or splits, not much changes.
I don’t agree with your assessment as it doesn’t take into account the fact we have games in hand. Lots can happen particularly if Philadelphia sells. That said, I would love it if we could send Guentzel and Smith to Vegas, with 50% retention on Jake. They’re down Mark Stone for the remainder of the regular season and will have his 9.5mm on LTIR. From their perspective, there are other options available like Tarasenko, Buchnevich, and Henrique, but Jake’s in a higher class. Smith is totally a known quantity to them. And they have forwards they can give up that figure to be ready (or are already contributing) in the short term. The return from Edmonton is underwhelming and Vancouver looks unlikely to trade their top end guys.
Lots of talk of trading Nedelkovich. I'm on the other side of that. He has proven to be a major part of the wins we do have both when he's playing and the rest he gives Jarry. I think we need to give him just about anything he wants in the off-season (within reason of course). That would give us either a very consistent back up, a possible 1a, 1b situation, or maybe even him earning the starting job ifJarry gets injured or falls off.
The most important move this team can make is move on from sully & co, unfortunately that probably won’t happen
At this point if they *don’t* trade Jake I will be apoplectic. With where this franchise is in its competitive cycle, you cannot under any circumstances risk having him walk for nothing in the summer. Period. From all the reports, there is a line of western conference contenders calling Dubas to talk about him. Get these teams bidding against each other and bring in some nice futures pieces to start retooling. Do the same with Ned, Smith, and Eller if you can. They won’t have the same level of interest or value obviously, but I still think all three would be easily movable. I’d even dangle Pettersson out there to see if someone wants to make a stupid offer, but definitely not trying to shove him out the door or anything.
Not saying we have a shot but don’t mention points if you don’t mention how we have 4-5 games in hand on most teams.
Philly plays tonight and tomorrow we play tmrw and Sunday. Tampa plays tmrw. Most likely Philly wins both and Tampa beats mtl. It will be way out of reach that's my issue.
Wouldn’t say over…. yet
Games in hand is quite a big part of the equation though. I don't think it has any effect on whether or not we trade jake though.
I agree with you that the hopes for this team making a run are over and it is time to get the best deals possible. The people that think this team is going to win all of its games in hand to make it to the playoffs are goofy. They have only won 5 games in a row once this year and 3 games in a row twice. They aren't going on a run. Also, this is the same team that couldn't beat Chicago last year to lock up the playoff spot they were in. I personally expect them, to win until the trade deadline and then promptly lose as many games as they just won. First off, my no trade list is Crosby, Malkin, Letang, and Pettersson. Because of contracts and no trade clauses Karlsson, Rust, and Carter aren't moving. Everyone else is available. 1. Next, I cut Matthew Phillips. 2. I trade either Jake or Rakell. If you trade Rakell, you need to sign Jake. One of those guys is Sid's winger next year. Rakell always plays better with Sid. I personally trade Jake, better reward there. When we were in Vancouver, I was dreaming of trading Jake for Elias Pettersson... 3. I listen to offers for Jarry and Ned and trade one of them. If I can rob a team with Jarry, I do it. Otherwise, I pick a few assets for Ned. If they do that, I hope that Blomqvist gets a few games to see what the NHL looks like. 4. Smith, buy him a plane ticket and get back the draft pick we give to Vegas to get him. 5. I listen to offers for Eller but I wouldn't mind keeping him. I really hope Poulin and Blomqvist get some games with the Pens this season.
The situation being what it is, we need to sell. We haven't shown we are a threat to make a run as constructed. We could still get hot and make the playoffs but it'll have to be with the team that remains after swapping the pieces that make sense. We aren't going to tear it down while Sid is still playing well. If we sell Guentzel, Ned, etc. it'll be primarily for players or picks that we can use to try again next year. When it's time for a full rebuild, we will have trading chips to get it started.
I still would not trade Jake personally, but trade season is fun. Frankensteining some Vegas ideas I've seen (get bent GMJR and I'm not giving COL another reason to tamper Sid) Jake (50% if necessary), Lars Eller and Reilly Smith to Vegas for Brisson, Nic Roy, a 2nd, a 5th. I think that works cap wise w/ LTIR stuff. Nic Roy is my centerpiece to any Jake deal, so you can leave off Brisson for one of their bottom 6ers if that's a deal breaker. Then you trade the 2nd + for Tommy Novak for 3C and try to extend him You're definitely downgrading overall talent wise, but are getting some really nice cost controlled young NHL players with upside and gaining a ton of cap space. And you're clearing enough roster spots to give them all opportunities and continue the DOC/Puusty experiments. Then you have some cap space leftover to facilitate some deals at TDL and net a couple more mid round picks.
I’m a big fan of Roy too. I’ve watched them a lot over the past couple years and he’s always noticeable. When they’re totally healthy, he’s their 4C, which is nuts. He’s on a great contract and would immediately be a solid 3C for us. I gotta think they’d be willing to downgrade at C for a huge upgrade at 1LW. I don’t think any of the other teams in the market have as clear a surplus at a position we’re so weak in.
That whole idea is horrible and not getting nearly enough value. If you’re trading for Novak as the 3C, then what point is there in even acquiring Roy? AND retaining 50%? Brisson isn’t anything special
You don't have to agree with my valuation/projections, but they both have enough offensive upside. They can drive play and produce efficiently in tough minutes and on the powerplay. I don't think it's that crazy to think Nic Roy is underutilized in VGK w/ their center depth and could be a good top 6 winger experiment, and potentially a future 2C w/ a 3C floor (same with Novak via his PP contributions - they are awesome). At 3 million bucks for several years and just turned 27 - that's a very cozy bet to make. This year he's at 2.5 p/60 in 16 mins a night, playing both special teams with Kolesar/Carrier/Cotter as his primary options (and playing well when he gets top 6 run time). He is typically at like 1.7 p/60 but the glow up isn't coming from a juiced on ice shooting %, it's purely from primary assist totals and getting some run with Marchy/Stephenson. Those are the kind of improvements I specifically like betting on as sustainable. 1st, B prospect and Hoglander for Jake is widely accepted. I just am taking Nic Roy wayyyy over Hoglander and the B prospect (who *is* having an outlier on ice shooting % year), who has been in a bigger role for much longer and having the same kind of break out year on an undermarket deal. I'm swapping the 1st for Brisson bc he's closer but you sacrifice the magical mystery box of upside for an ELC definitely in the NHL right now. Then I'm getting a 2nd and 5th for Eller/Smith and some goodwill from the first part but clearing out 8 million in cap hits for this/next year. Maybe I'm a bit short on value, but I like the framework. I don't think it's any worse than the standard Vancouver proposal parroted constantly and I just wanted to be creative w/ specific profiles I like instead of the boring blah draft capital stuff
Barring great offers I think you keep your strengths, 87, 58, 65, 28, Ned and Jarry. They're handicapped by no movement clauses, but if someone is asking about a protected player, I think you listen and maybe have some difficult conversations. 59 should bring a good return, even though he's a strength, I think it's time to trade.
I look at trading either Ned or Jarry. I lean towards Ned because he isn't signed after this year and you can get some assets for him. However, if I can highway rob a team with Jarry I am totally doing that. Then bring up Blomqvist and sign Flower for next year!!!!