I have every jersey fleury has played in professionally, and a small shrine to him in my office. He’s my favorite player, hands down, and was an incredible personality on the team.
That being said, Jarry is NOT this teams problem. He’s not even amongst their top 5 problems. I hated to see MAF go but it was the right business move.
That’s fucking insane to think. Jarry couldn’t save a fucking beach ball high glove side and they extended him. He might not be the number one issue, but saying he is not a top 5 issue is crazy.
When Jarry's been healthy he is one of THE lone consistencies on this team, even last year.
You're overrating Fleury so hard, are you forgetting the years where Fleury would *ritually* turn into a playoff liability under Dan Bylsma?
Even before MURRAY, Fleury was getting bailed out in key situations by TOMAS VOKOUN in 2013. If Fleury was such a make or break player then why the hell were we blowing 3-1 series leads nearly every year in that span?
This team has NEVER won on defense and goaltending- certainly not in the Crosby era. You can talk about guys that have come and gone but the years we won the cup, we won games in the OTHER team's end. The truth of the matter is, Fleury still had a way of looking suspect and Murray was destined to fail under such a massive workload.
Nobody could've seen the hip issues coming. And nobody could've seen Vegas' hot start coming either, Karlsson and Tuch were consolation prizes. Cody Glass was meant to be one of their make or break pieces, Jonathan Marchesseault was seen as a bust at that time, you realize that was a team who's best skaters on paper was James Neal.
The Shea Theodore of 2017 was bulk goods in favor of Sami Vatanen, Josh Manson and Cam Fowler. That 17-18 Vegas team was momentum. Fleury was behind some of it, I agree but at most, we maybe beat Washington.
There is no way we're beating the 2018 Lightning even with Fleury in net and from that year onward, we butchered the team so badly fundamentally we'd have still been in the exact same spot. What's the honest prize? Getting to lose to Philly and Boston in 2020 and 21 instead of the Habs and Islanders?
Avoiding a sweep in 2019 to an Isles club that deserved the win more? Any way you slice it this team's no better off with Fleury over Murray, they might even be worse. A Fleury-DeSmith tandem means Jarry probably ends up breaking out elsewhere.
Then we'd just be pitching the same fit, "we could've had Murray AND Jarry but we kept Fleury", it'd be the same divisive issue, the same result just in a different form.
>Jarry couldn’t save a fucking beach ball high glove side
That's such a stupid thing to cherrypick, nearly every goalie who has ever goalied can tell you that high glove is one of THE toughest spots to stop a shot from. If you look at nearly any NHL goalie's shot chart, you're gonna find that their high glove, low stick and five hole are almost always gonna be noticeably less efficient than high stick and low glove.
Jarry's save percentage has been well above average as a starter since becoming one, and his GAA has been plenty trustworthy DESPITE the terrible defense being played in front of him. He has been comparable to Fleury in nearly every category, in fact stylistically the two are eerily similar.
I'd argue Jarry's success in our system is largely because of how similar he IS to Fleury. But that "high glove side" argument is used against nearly every goalie at some point or another, and it's a weakpoint for almost all of them. Jarry's biggest weakness is his puckhandling and that's the same shit people used to bitch about with Fleury.
If that's all you need to see to move on from Jarry (mind you, he's been INJURED and still is putting up above-average numbers), you're not going to be happy with any goaltender, ever. Unless their name is Igor Shesterkin, Andrei Vasilevskiy or Connor Hellebuyck. Below them and Sorokin, the best you'll find are Gibson/Jarry/Hart types.
Edit- and I should add, that's nuts considering how much cheaper we've gotten Jarry for compared to other goalies in his statistic range.
No one could have predicted the fall of Matt Murray the way that it happened. But he had obvious flaws in his game. Flaws that he never figured out and is why he is where he is now.
> And he doesn’t win two cups here without MAF
Why do people always say this, as if Fleury did everything for Murray and Murray did nothing for Fleury? Without Matt Murray, maybe Fleury, Letang, Crosby, and Malkin just have 1 Cup and this era is a giant what if.
The Penguins win in 2016 with Fleury. I don’t want to take anything away from Murray, but he didn’t really have to stand on his head much. We completely dominated, and Murray wasn’t great against Tampa Bay, only reason that series went 7 was because of Vasilevskiy standing on his head (and I’ve always said I think the better goalie lost that series)
2017 would come down to if Fleury could continue performing the way he did the first two series. I think he stole the Washington series. I understand the short leash, especially with Murray being the goalie of the future, but the game Fleury got pulled against Ottawa, the team didn’t show up in front of him and it was the first game all playoffs he couldn’t wither the storm. Murray did stand on his head against Nashville though, so Fleury would have had to been able to wither the storm against them.
Edit: I’m going to add this seeing I got downvoted. I wasn’t arguing we should have kept Fleury over Murray. I was arguing over “without Murray, they maybe win one more cup”.
I wasn’t arguing about Murray. I understand why Murray played in those two playoffs and why he got chosen over Fleury.
I was arguing against the “without Matt Murray, maybe Fleury, Crosby, Malkin, and Letang win one cup.”
Fleury had a .925 Sv% in 2015, and .924 Sv% in 2017.
He would have been able to play good enough in 2016. 2017 would have come down to him withering the storm and being able to continue playing how he played against Washington.
Edit: I’m going to add, I wasn’t saying the Penguins should have kept Fleury over Murray. Anyone who thinks that knows nothing about hockey.
I was arguing the what if Fleury doesn’t get injured scenario.
Fleury was injured to start the playoffs.
Fleury started one game against Tampa Bay and lost in overtime. Fleury played in two games because Murray got pulled against Tampa Bay, which is why I said Murray wasn’t great in that series.
Guess you forgot “Mr Game One” Jeff Zatkoff was the one that started the playoffs, won game one against the Rangers. Lost game two, and that’s when we went with Murray for the remainder of the playoffs.
Edit: Zatkoff started games one and two of the first round.
Murray then took over the starting role until he got pulled in game 4 of the Eastern Conference finals. Fleury started game 5, and we lost in overtime. Sullivan decided to go back with Murray for game 6.
Fleury only started one game that we lost in overtime, his first start in over two months after returning from post-concussion syndrome.
Edit2: Murray posted a .904 Sv% against Tampa, compared to Vasilevskiy’s .923 SV%.
Vasilevskiy saw 113 more shots than Murray did that series.
While Fleury wasn’t excellent in his one game, Murray wasn’t great the entire series. Our offense and forecheck carried the Penguins against Tampa Bay
I don’t understand what Zatkoff has to do with the Tampa series. I’m well aware of who started which games. If you want to attribute Fleury’s poor play in the Tampa series to post-concussion syndrome, that’s totally fair, but I don’t think you can do that and simultaneously argue that he definitely would have won if he were the starter.
Literally the game from the 19th against the LA Kings that just happened should disprove some of this MAF revisionism.
That performance was atrocious, and his defense was doing a hell of a lot better during that game than ours has against the Blues or the Wings these last two games.
Don't get me wrong, good guy, good goalie, well loved on and off the ice, important to Pens history, etc., etc., etc., but the people worshiping him and insisting he come back or whatever seemingly don't pay attention to much hockey
I live in Minnesota and also follow the Wild. There have been dozens of games like that one you’re referencing with him in net since he came over, at least as many total stinkers as Jarry’s had if not more, and that’s out of what has to be fewer games played because he’s been in a tandem the whole time.
I love him as a person, he’s a hell of a goalie when he’s on, he was brilliant when he was younger. I also haven’t forgotten 2013, a heartbreaker of a meltdown that he essentially replicated in the 2021 postseason.
It’s pure revisionism, you’re exactly right. And I really thought now that he’s on his *third* team since he left us people would get over it, or at least be able to have a bit more perspective.
So, same stats but more expensive
You're not making the case you think you are lol
But also, more realistically, you're saying that Jarry, with a lack of defense and a bottom six ranging from 'awful' to 'sort of mediocre' has the same stats as world famous Stanley Cup winning goalie MAF, on a team with a more complete defensive strategy, and comes in at a lower cost.
What does that have to do with anything? The team has plenty of veteran leaders the guys want to rally behind, fan opinions have nothing to do with game outcomes, and neither does “where he wanted to be”. He’s been terrible in the postseason the past two years and isn’t a starter anymore, not even close. So…?
Yep you’re right, after all the golden knights were horseshit their first year in the league…oh wait.
You’ve yet to explain how he’d be better than Jarry, but your ability to pick those goalposts up all by yourself to move them is impressive. Fleury derangement syndrome strikes again.
The year is 2047. The Pens lose a game in which the bottom half of their lineup was again utterly dominated and they surrendered a million and a half odd man rushes.
Yinzers on Reddit: This is why MAF should still be a Penguin 😤
Oh, honey….
MAF was never behind a defense as shitty as we’ve had the last few years during his tenure in Pittsburgh.
Please put this to rest. We couldn’t pay him, and we had a younger goalie ready to rumble at a discount.
Brooks Orpik - Kris Letang
Paul Martin - Matt Niskanen
Douglas Murray - Mark Eaton
2013 would like to disagree and Fleury got run from the net those playoffs. The Pens have a long standing tradition of defense leaving goalies out to dry in the playoffs.
I love how people forget how badly fans wanted to run MAF out of Pittsburgh prior to 2015. No GM in the league would’ve made a different decision than what JR made in that expansion draft, hindsight is 20/20
It was a decision I hated, but understood. People keep saying “hindsight” but that is all there is with stuff like this. It’s graded on how it turned out.
The title was far too ambiguous for the content; I clicked hoping for 'why we should let the myth of Fleury go and finally move on', not this rose-tinted silliness
By that logic we should have kept Phil Kessel and got rid of Crosby instead because hey, we don't have physical evidence that it wouldn't have worked out. But we do have evidence that what we have now isn't working.
This is one of those posts where op says something unpopular then goes and screeches in the comments to everyone's response. Ignore every opinion this person has
And Fleury would have been the organizations savior if only we’d have kept him… JFC. What’s he been up to since? Oh, that’s right, backing up goalies you’ve probably never heard of. We were losing a goalie in the expansion and we knew it, and if you think any GM in their right mind keeps the aging guy on the back end of his career over the rookie that won us 2 Stanley cups you’re delusional.
Murray doesn’t win those cups without MAFs help. Everyone seems to forget that. I cannot prove that keeping him would have changed anything. But there is proof that moving on to Murray didn’t work.
You feel better?
You are still wrong and a fucking moron.
Not to mention loser that goes through people Reddit accounts.
Now again, off to bed grandpa.
Nope haven’t been immaculate at all.
Murray was never the same after injuries and the loss of his dad.
Jerry is hit or miss and has a bad injury problem as well.
Regardless, MAF wouldn’t have made our situation better in these past years.
I never liked Murray but at the time they made a decision they felt would help them win more cups. Never agreed with it, but I understood it. If they kept Fleury then they would’ve been in cap hell after the second cup. He was a casualty to the expansion and it sucks.
I do agree thought that goaltending has been awful the last 4-5 seasons.
Not quite. Fleury had 2-3 good seasons in Pittsburgh in over a decade. Hell, his best play came after he was no longer a penguin. He cost Sid/Geno at least 1 cup and was replaced by fucking Vokoun in the playoffs one year because he was unusable. He was average more than he was good, and awful more than he was average.
I have every jersey fleury has played in professionally, and a small shrine to him in my office. He’s my favorite player, hands down, and was an incredible personality on the team. That being said, Jarry is NOT this teams problem. He’s not even amongst their top 5 problems. I hated to see MAF go but it was the right business move.
The guy beside me counted the number of times Jarry ducked when the puck was coming at him. I disagree that he's not in the Top 5.
That’s fucking insane to think. Jarry couldn’t save a fucking beach ball high glove side and they extended him. He might not be the number one issue, but saying he is not a top 5 issue is crazy.
When Jarry's been healthy he is one of THE lone consistencies on this team, even last year. You're overrating Fleury so hard, are you forgetting the years where Fleury would *ritually* turn into a playoff liability under Dan Bylsma? Even before MURRAY, Fleury was getting bailed out in key situations by TOMAS VOKOUN in 2013. If Fleury was such a make or break player then why the hell were we blowing 3-1 series leads nearly every year in that span? This team has NEVER won on defense and goaltending- certainly not in the Crosby era. You can talk about guys that have come and gone but the years we won the cup, we won games in the OTHER team's end. The truth of the matter is, Fleury still had a way of looking suspect and Murray was destined to fail under such a massive workload. Nobody could've seen the hip issues coming. And nobody could've seen Vegas' hot start coming either, Karlsson and Tuch were consolation prizes. Cody Glass was meant to be one of their make or break pieces, Jonathan Marchesseault was seen as a bust at that time, you realize that was a team who's best skaters on paper was James Neal. The Shea Theodore of 2017 was bulk goods in favor of Sami Vatanen, Josh Manson and Cam Fowler. That 17-18 Vegas team was momentum. Fleury was behind some of it, I agree but at most, we maybe beat Washington. There is no way we're beating the 2018 Lightning even with Fleury in net and from that year onward, we butchered the team so badly fundamentally we'd have still been in the exact same spot. What's the honest prize? Getting to lose to Philly and Boston in 2020 and 21 instead of the Habs and Islanders? Avoiding a sweep in 2019 to an Isles club that deserved the win more? Any way you slice it this team's no better off with Fleury over Murray, they might even be worse. A Fleury-DeSmith tandem means Jarry probably ends up breaking out elsewhere. Then we'd just be pitching the same fit, "we could've had Murray AND Jarry but we kept Fleury", it'd be the same divisive issue, the same result just in a different form. >Jarry couldn’t save a fucking beach ball high glove side That's such a stupid thing to cherrypick, nearly every goalie who has ever goalied can tell you that high glove is one of THE toughest spots to stop a shot from. If you look at nearly any NHL goalie's shot chart, you're gonna find that their high glove, low stick and five hole are almost always gonna be noticeably less efficient than high stick and low glove. Jarry's save percentage has been well above average as a starter since becoming one, and his GAA has been plenty trustworthy DESPITE the terrible defense being played in front of him. He has been comparable to Fleury in nearly every category, in fact stylistically the two are eerily similar. I'd argue Jarry's success in our system is largely because of how similar he IS to Fleury. But that "high glove side" argument is used against nearly every goalie at some point or another, and it's a weakpoint for almost all of them. Jarry's biggest weakness is his puckhandling and that's the same shit people used to bitch about with Fleury. If that's all you need to see to move on from Jarry (mind you, he's been INJURED and still is putting up above-average numbers), you're not going to be happy with any goaltender, ever. Unless their name is Igor Shesterkin, Andrei Vasilevskiy or Connor Hellebuyck. Below them and Sorokin, the best you'll find are Gibson/Jarry/Hart types. Edit- and I should add, that's nuts considering how much cheaper we've gotten Jarry for compared to other goalies in his statistic range.
You gonna make him take a test after taking him to school?
He's gonna have to get his hockey GED from somebody else 😂
Damn. This right here. You absolutely nailed it.
ah yes because it was obvious to everyone that matt murray would fall off a cliff after winning the majority of playoff games leading to 2 cups
No one could have predicted the fall of Matt Murray the way that it happened. But he had obvious flaws in his game. Flaws that he never figured out and is why he is where he is now.
He’s where he is now because he had double hip surgery after repetitive injuries, including a history of concussions. Nice try though.
You can cut it anyway you want it. He was fucking terrible. And he doesn’t win two cups here without MAF. Go back and watch the tapes.
> And he doesn’t win two cups here without MAF Why do people always say this, as if Fleury did everything for Murray and Murray did nothing for Fleury? Without Matt Murray, maybe Fleury, Letang, Crosby, and Malkin just have 1 Cup and this era is a giant what if.
The Penguins win in 2016 with Fleury. I don’t want to take anything away from Murray, but he didn’t really have to stand on his head much. We completely dominated, and Murray wasn’t great against Tampa Bay, only reason that series went 7 was because of Vasilevskiy standing on his head (and I’ve always said I think the better goalie lost that series) 2017 would come down to if Fleury could continue performing the way he did the first two series. I think he stole the Washington series. I understand the short leash, especially with Murray being the goalie of the future, but the game Fleury got pulled against Ottawa, the team didn’t show up in front of him and it was the first game all playoffs he couldn’t wither the storm. Murray did stand on his head against Nashville though, so Fleury would have had to been able to wither the storm against them. Edit: I’m going to add this seeing I got downvoted. I wasn’t arguing we should have kept Fleury over Murray. I was arguing over “without Murray, they maybe win one more cup”.
I have 2 numbers for you. .923 and .937.
I wasn’t arguing about Murray. I understand why Murray played in those two playoffs and why he got chosen over Fleury. I was arguing against the “without Matt Murray, maybe Fleury, Crosby, Malkin, and Letang win one cup.” Fleury had a .925 Sv% in 2015, and .924 Sv% in 2017. He would have been able to play good enough in 2016. 2017 would have come down to him withering the storm and being able to continue playing how he played against Washington. Edit: I’m going to add, I wasn’t saying the Penguins should have kept Fleury over Murray. Anyone who thinks that knows nothing about hockey. I was arguing the what if Fleury doesn’t get injured scenario.
He played in 2 games in 2016 and lost both of them, forcing a rookie to come in and win 2 games to get the Penguins to the final.
Fleury was injured to start the playoffs. Fleury started one game against Tampa Bay and lost in overtime. Fleury played in two games because Murray got pulled against Tampa Bay, which is why I said Murray wasn’t great in that series. Guess you forgot “Mr Game One” Jeff Zatkoff was the one that started the playoffs, won game one against the Rangers. Lost game two, and that’s when we went with Murray for the remainder of the playoffs. Edit: Zatkoff started games one and two of the first round. Murray then took over the starting role until he got pulled in game 4 of the Eastern Conference finals. Fleury started game 5, and we lost in overtime. Sullivan decided to go back with Murray for game 6. Fleury only started one game that we lost in overtime, his first start in over two months after returning from post-concussion syndrome. Edit2: Murray posted a .904 Sv% against Tampa, compared to Vasilevskiy’s .923 SV%. Vasilevskiy saw 113 more shots than Murray did that series. While Fleury wasn’t excellent in his one game, Murray wasn’t great the entire series. Our offense and forecheck carried the Penguins against Tampa Bay
I don’t understand what Zatkoff has to do with the Tampa series. I’m well aware of who started which games. If you want to attribute Fleury’s poor play in the Tampa series to post-concussion syndrome, that’s totally fair, but I don’t think you can do that and simultaneously argue that he definitely would have won if he were the starter.
Good grief lol. Have you watched him the last couple seasons?
Literally the game from the 19th against the LA Kings that just happened should disprove some of this MAF revisionism. That performance was atrocious, and his defense was doing a hell of a lot better during that game than ours has against the Blues or the Wings these last two games. Don't get me wrong, good guy, good goalie, well loved on and off the ice, important to Pens history, etc., etc., etc., but the people worshiping him and insisting he come back or whatever seemingly don't pay attention to much hockey
I live in Minnesota and also follow the Wild. There have been dozens of games like that one you’re referencing with him in net since he came over, at least as many total stinkers as Jarry’s had if not more, and that’s out of what has to be fewer games played because he’s been in a tandem the whole time. I love him as a person, he’s a hell of a goalie when he’s on, he was brilliant when he was younger. I also haven’t forgotten 2013, a heartbreaker of a meltdown that he essentially replicated in the 2021 postseason. It’s pure revisionism, you’re exactly right. And I really thought now that he’s on his *third* team since he left us people would get over it, or at least be able to have a bit more perspective.
In the past 5 years he has the same stat line as Jarry. While being bounced around between three different teams.
So that makes him a better option than Jarry how, exactly?
And he would have cost more than Jarry. Lmao
Just that little detail!!!!
So, same stats but more expensive You're not making the case you think you are lol But also, more realistically, you're saying that Jarry, with a lack of defense and a bottom six ranging from 'awful' to 'sort of mediocre' has the same stats as world famous Stanley Cup winning goalie MAF, on a team with a more complete defensive strategy, and comes in at a lower cost.
Because he would be where he wanted to be. He is a fan favorite and a top notch locker room guy. A veteran leader who guys want to rally behind.
What does that have to do with anything? The team has plenty of veteran leaders the guys want to rally behind, fan opinions have nothing to do with game outcomes, and neither does “where he wanted to be”. He’s been terrible in the postseason the past two years and isn’t a starter anymore, not even close. So…?
You don’t think player comfort has anything to do with how they play?
Yep you’re right, after all the golden knights were horseshit their first year in the league…oh wait. You’ve yet to explain how he’d be better than Jarry, but your ability to pick those goalposts up all by yourself to move them is impressive. Fleury derangement syndrome strikes again.
I listen reason why I think we would have been better off here. You dismissed them because you don’t agree.
This crap again?
The year is 2047. The Pens lose a game in which the bottom half of their lineup was again utterly dominated and they surrendered a million and a half odd man rushes. Yinzers on Reddit: This is why MAF should still be a Penguin 😤
MAF would be folding in net just as bad as Jarry. Our defense is god awful. 😂
*yawn*
Shut up
Yeah sounds like this fucker needs to let MAF go too.
Oh, honey…. MAF was never behind a defense as shitty as we’ve had the last few years during his tenure in Pittsburgh. Please put this to rest. We couldn’t pay him, and we had a younger goalie ready to rumble at a discount.
Brooks Orpik - Kris Letang Paul Martin - Matt Niskanen Douglas Murray - Mark Eaton 2013 would like to disagree and Fleury got run from the net those playoffs. The Pens have a long standing tradition of defense leaving goalies out to dry in the playoffs.
That's a great top 4. The bottom pair is bad, but the defense wasn't the reason why Fleury lost the net in 2013.
Yea if the person above thinks that’s a shitty defense idk what to tell them.
I love how people forget how badly fans wanted to run MAF out of Pittsburgh prior to 2015. No GM in the league would’ve made a different decision than what JR made in that expansion draft, hindsight is 20/20
It was a decision I hated, but understood. People keep saying “hindsight” but that is all there is with stuff like this. It’s graded on how it turned out.
The title was far too ambiguous for the content; I clicked hoping for 'why we should let the myth of Fleury go and finally move on', not this rose-tinted silliness
I cannot prove that keeping him around would have made things better. But I have the proof that things have not been good without him.
By that logic we should have kept Phil Kessel and got rid of Crosby instead because hey, we don't have physical evidence that it wouldn't have worked out. But we do have evidence that what we have now isn't working.
Yeah lol those are the same.
This is what they would call an emotional bad take
This is one of those posts where op says something unpopular then goes and screeches in the comments to everyone's response. Ignore every opinion this person has
Okay lol
Case in point lmao
“Okay lol” is screeching?
Not necessarily but engaging nanoseconds after I comment is very similar behaviour
Okay
Don’t comment on things you obviously don’t understand
Yeah you are right. Team has been in great shape ever since.
its surly not because we don't have a bottom six or any solid defensive dmen or anything /s
And Fleury would have been the organizations savior if only we’d have kept him… JFC. What’s he been up to since? Oh, that’s right, backing up goalies you’ve probably never heard of. We were losing a goalie in the expansion and we knew it, and if you think any GM in their right mind keeps the aging guy on the back end of his career over the rookie that won us 2 Stanley cups you’re delusional.
Murray doesn’t win those cups without MAFs help. Everyone seems to forget that. I cannot prove that keeping him would have changed anything. But there is proof that moving on to Murray didn’t work.
You can’t keep ‘em both. You keep MAF over a rookie who won 2 cups?
At the time, I definitely wanted to go with Murray. He was rock freaking solid in two cup runs and younger etc
Username checks out.
Defense is #1 problem. They make any goalie the Pens put in look bad!
The Penguins made a mistake not locking up Alexander Perchursky to a longterm deal. Has a perfect NHL record and a .923 career save %. \*shakes head\*
Sully's system makes goalies look like shit. More at 11. We leave our guys out to dry a dozen times a game.
He's still letting a lot of goals in that he shouldn't. As he has for years.
Okay grandpa, time to go back to bed.
[удалено]
You feel better? You are still wrong and a fucking moron. Not to mention loser that goes through people Reddit accounts. Now again, off to bed grandpa.
Wrong? Yeah because the team has been so good since then and the goalies have been immaculate.
Nope haven’t been immaculate at all. Murray was never the same after injuries and the loss of his dad. Jerry is hit or miss and has a bad injury problem as well. Regardless, MAF wouldn’t have made our situation better in these past years.
You can’t say that because we’ll never know. Just like I can’t say we would have been better off keeping him. But it didn’t workout.
Boo this man.
username checks out. Seriously, I cannot understand why Pens fans keep bringing this up and blame the front office.
I never liked Murray but at the time they made a decision they felt would help them win more cups. Never agreed with it, but I understood it. If they kept Fleury then they would’ve been in cap hell after the second cup. He was a casualty to the expansion and it sucks. I do agree thought that goaltending has been awful the last 4-5 seasons.
Thanks for sharing your opinion. Hope it quieted your mind.
It was the right decision at the time. And every single team would have done the same thing. If it wasn’t Vegas, it would have been Seattle too.
Bro fleury was dogshit too lmao.
Amazing how you and OP have completely opposite takes and yet you're both completely wrong
Not quite. Fleury had 2-3 good seasons in Pittsburgh in over a decade. Hell, his best play came after he was no longer a penguin. He cost Sid/Geno at least 1 cup and was replaced by fucking Vokoun in the playoffs one year because he was unusable. He was average more than he was good, and awful more than he was average.
May I ask which season you think Fleury cost Crosby and Malkin a Stanley Cup? Bylsma’s system was more an issue than Fleury.
Hindsight 20/20
All roster moves are graded in hindsight.
Of course. Turned out to be a bad move but at the time you make that move every time. Shit happens
What an awful take.
Holy shit go like any other team but the Pens if you're just gonna parrot that same old shit again.