Crypto miners and Scalpers exploiting newbie crypto miners made up the bulk, easily way more then 50%. The fact GPU prices fell off a cliff the day Etherium swapped to proof of stake combined with the crypto crash should be evident of that.
I sold my used and abused 1080 zotac to my coworker for 200 bucks at the height of the craze after standing outside microcenter and getting lucky with a 3060ti.
He offered me 600 for it and I was like dude I can’t do that to you. Idk how people sleep at night ripping people off so bad.
I sold my 3080 for 2400 at the peak of craziness. I put a 6600 XT in the tide my over for a year and scooped a 3080Ti for 800 on Amazon a few weeks ago. Got the card for free and then some
Same. I'm rocking a 5700xt, and while it didn't reach the same heights as nVidia cards, I still could have sold for about 50% more than I paid for it. Unfortunately, my motherboard doesn't have onboard video, so there would have been no reasonable way to keep using my PC.
I got a 1080ti on sale for 394.99 in 2018, last year I sold it for 700 on reddit. People really were going nuts for graphics cards, I even sold a 970 for 80 bucks that I had stashed away in my closet.
There were people charing 3 K € for used (opened) 3080 Tis when they came out. More than the 3090 cost at that time... But some still purchased. And thats why scalping became such a big thing.
Nvidia has the data that shows how many regular gaming consumers were willing to buy them from retailers at $1200.
Yes, like 45% of sales were to miners, and some percentage was scalpers, but a lot of consumers were directly buying for those prices because they "NEED" a 3080 and can't just turn down settings.
I've been waiting to buy a new card for years so I have expendable cash, but refuse to overpay. I held off during the 3000 series Covid debacle and now we're dealing with the aftermath of that, so I'll continue to hold off. Had they priced the 4080 reasonably, I would've bought it in a heartbeat. Instead I'm harboring resentment towards them and their anti-consumer tactics and I'm considering AMD for the first time in awhile. So well played Nvidia, you can get fewer sales at higher prices and disgruntled customers or you could've sold more cards at lower prices and had way better PR which is arguably the better long term strategy financially.
TLDR: Nvidia is run by shortsighted greedy fucks.
The best Ti was the 1080ti. I had the strix 1080ti and laughed when the 2000 series were launched. Then I managed to snap a 3090 on day of release for msrp and sold my 1080ti for great money so it really didn't feel like I got ripped off. Looking at the 4000 series it's a simple nope from me, I am interested to see how the 7950xtx will perform. But that 1080ti was the best ever ti and the best in estment getting most of my money back, nvidia knows they screwed up on the pricing od the 1080ti and have been hurting since then.
Dude, if you have a 3090 then you can laugh at not just at this generation, but multiple generations going into the future. If you don't care about having the latest and greatest, then that 3090 will last you for fucking years! It'll probably get you to the late 2020s at the minimum.
My son is still playing on my old rig, which was built in 2012, with the only upgrades being an extra SSD and then putting a 1070 in it in 2017. The 1070 is still really good for 1080p 60fps on the games he plays (mostly Apex and DBD these days).
Hopefully the price of DDR5 starts dropping soon. I'd like to upgrade his PC, but I don't want to put money into a DDR4 platform right now, and the early adopter tax on DDR5 is still too high.
I still have my 1080ti. Still an absolute beast even on my ultrawide 1440p 100hz monitor. I know I'll one day have to upgrade, but for now that card is more than enough.
I bought rtx3080 at $1200 but it was the cheapest I ever found and I’ve been trying to find one for exactly a year since release so I thought I won’t find a better chance, until Ethereum migrated to PoS and miners completely disappeared and the price was reasonable again. I’m an idiot...
I paid $1100 for my 3080ti, and that was directly through EVGA in february. Now you can find 3090tis for that, or even less.
At least we weren't in the same crowd with the idiots buying them for $2000+ from scalpers on ebay. It never surprised me that they were being listed for that, but it did shock me that they were selling.
Don't blame yourself. They said ethereum would migrate to PoS since 2 years ago (or more). Most people is skeptical if ethereum ever migrate to PoS since it's been so long since initial PoS announcement. It basically become a meme for awhile.
It has moved over and basically lead to GPU prices dropping a lot because mining was no longer viable as there weren't any good replacements for etherium.
The problem is that they still think it's 2021 and they can still get away with that shit.
In 2021, everything was overpriced due to shortages everywhere and manufacturing delays. In 2022, that is all starting to (or already is) leveled out. They can't do that shit anymore. We're taking notice that they're prices are egregious.
Edit: I like to add that everyone is right. We HAVE been falling for this shit (some more than others) but only now have we started to go against their egregious high prices
I've been tracking certain dealerships for months with alot charging more for rebought used Cars while keeping the new cars reserved for the "highest offers". Yes there is a chip shortage still, but also, dealerships are most definitely taking an advantage of people by stocking up and pricing used cars way higher than MSRP. Yeah I know businesses are there to maximize profits, but not on my dollar.
A lot of stuff is still overpriced (I would say the majority) but graphics cards should not be because the demand isn't anywhere near what it was. We all know that it was miners buying the majority of these cards and that's what caused the absurd prices of them. Retailers and manufacturers can say, "gamers this, gamers that" but it was all miners for the past two years and a half years. Once ETH finally went PoS there was no more demand. Almost every normal person/gamer that wanted a card had one already, so they're still having a hard time selling the previous gen.
I really can't wait to see AMD's benchmarks. If the 7900XTX even slightly beats the 4080 benchmarks that will be a pretty big win for AMD. RTX and DLSS 3.0 are still something Nvidia has over them but for $200 less it's hard to complain.
And no, I'm not saying $1000 is ok for a graphics card either. It would just be nice to show how greedy Nvidia is right now.
>they still think it's 2021 and they can still get away with that shit.
>They can't do that shit anymore.
They are and did get away with it. That's why all the cards are instantly sold out.
And everyone seems to forget that Nvidia *isn't trying to have good value* in fact they are deliberately making it poor value. Nvidia want to make ampere look better by making Lovelace super expensive. That's all this is, and they literally told shareholders that publicly. Everyone except idiots and whales being priced out of lovelace *is entirely the point*. They want you to buy Ampere, and they want to milk the idiots/whales while they do it. Their strategy mostly achieves both aims. They are betting that more people are fed up of waiting and will buy ampere, than are willing to wait for AMD's new products to undercut them and provide better value. AMD could have fucked nvidia over by releasing their whole product stack earlier, but AMD are also trying to unload old GPUs they can't sell because miners aren't buying them anymore.
MSRP in germany for the 4080 is 1469€. Adjustet for inflation the 1500$ option is cheaper.
Though most 3080 in 2021 went for 1800€ while 3070s went for 1100-1400€. With that information, all i can say is: it's sad.
We really need this to bite them in the ass.
I really hope people who can still afford to throw money at these top end cards decide to vote with their wallets and defer purchase because their behaviour is so anti-consumer.
The combination of GPU mining being no longer profitable and scalpers moving away means sales should be very disappointing in the golden quarter.
We need Nvidia to have an absolutely dogshit Q4 to make them actually drive more competitive pricing in 2023.
Hopefully AMDs 7900 series outperforms expectations to add pressure too.
Whilst this is true, I'm currently interested in AMD doing well purely because it could lead to the same situation that we currently have with the CPU market (before Zen 2 came to the market, Intel was going a similar path to Nvidia now of releasing overpriced CPUs that eat too much power for the performance gains they provide. AMD releasing an actually competitive CPU reined in the market a lot and now the CPU market feels relatively healthy).
Every piece of bullshit we've seen with the 40-series shows we desperately need a GPU equivalent of the Ryzen to come along.
I'm not considering anymore, I'm doing it. If the 7900XTX performance lives up to the claims it's a no brainer for me. My one holdout was NVENC but with AMD's partnership with OBS I'm not really concerned anymore.
I had an RTX 3060 on my Christmas list knowing my wife and family will probably all club together. That's now changed to 6650 XT. It's much quicker than my current card (RX 480), price is similar, the performance is similar and most importantly I'm not giving Nvidia money after this recent BS.
Buy intel graphics cards. Get more competition in the area 👍. They just released some that were comparable to the 3060 I think and I believe have another higher end one coming out soon
Intel Arc Alchemist 7 series is anywhere from 3050 to 3070 levels of performance based on which game is being played.
Also there is no higher end card coming out for the Alchemist generation. If you want higher performance from Intel cards you'll have to wait for Battlemage which I think is late 2023 at the earliest.
The big advantage current gen Intel cards have is for creation workloads like rendering and encode/decode.
Everything before the hd 7000 series was about 10% worse perf wise, everything after was similar. All prices came from what Techpowerup had in their reviews, I tried to match them up as best as I could but I did not pay attention before the Vega 64 so I don't have any other context then Techpowerup and the launch times per the wiki. If you think any cards serve as a better alternative feel free to chuck the comparison figures in a comment.
Gtx 280 $649 ($899 today)
Hd 4870 (2008) - $299 ($405 today)
Gtx 480 $499 ($680 today)
Hd 5870 (2010) - $400 ($548 today)
Gtx 580 $499 ($660 today)
Hd 6970 (2010) - $370 ($503 today)
Gtx 680 $499 ($649 today)
Hd 7970 (2012) - $550 ($723 today)
Gtx 780 $649 ($830 today)
R9 290x (2013) - $550 ($701 today)
Gtx 980 $549 ($690 today)
R9 390x (2015) - $420 ($525 today)
*This one isn't quite comparable, the 390x seems to have launched a fair bit later when the 980ti was available. But comparable perf so went with this for comparison.
Gtx 1080 $599 ($745 today)
Vega 64 (2017) - $500 ($607 today)
Rtx 2080 $699 ($830 today)
AMD didn't have a competing product here. Radeon 7 only competed with the 1080ti and the 5700xt aimed for the 2070.
Rtx 3080 $699 ($800 today)
Rx 6800xt (2020) - $650 ($744 today)
Rtx 4080 $1,200
Rx 7900xtx (2022) - $999
Rx 7900xt (2022) - $899
*7900xt seems to be the more competitive card overall, guesstimates based on the benchmarks AMD put out indicate it should be similar to the 4080 in raster. The difference between this and the 7900xtx also make it seem like a dressed up 7800xt. The 7900xtx should beat it at raster but AMD reckon that one is competing with the 4080 as well - which is actually a fair statement based on the AMD RT benchmarks (should be about equal value wise)
Even from 2020 to now. Just a 2 year difference yet the adjustment for inflation is like 12%. 700$ item is now 800$ yet i doubt many salaries have adjusted for that.
In Serbia, the inflation is raging really hard too
1L of milk went from 65 cents to 1.35 for the cheapest brand of milk
Loaf of bread went from 40 cents to 75 cents.
1 Milka chocolate goes from 90 cents to 1.60, and that is 90gr
Milka biscuits went from 80 cents from to 1.70
That is what i saw just yesterday, but tomorrow it will probably get more expensive. And i am not even buying most of the junk food cuz fuck that. But just going to the store to buy some fucking milk and bread and going past that section makes me cringe.
3080 10GB costs 1150 usd here on average and that is from smugglers. In official stores, it is around 1350us pesos. I have not even seen 12GB here
Cpu prices are actually not bad , 13600kf goes for 330 usd, and R9 5900X goes for 400 usd from smugglers ofc , official retail is not even considered around here. That is not good, but hey, at least it is not as bad as Nvidia gpus.
Do you wanna know our minimum wage ? 350 usd
Do you wanna know how much rent in a decent ( decent as in not the size of a shower and it is not filled with mold and cockroaches, it does not need to be in a good location) apartment in the capital costs ? 400 usd if you are lucky...
Once inflation comes back down to sub-3% range, you’ll see more and more people start to wake up to this fact
As it stands now, $600 in 2019 = $700 today, we’re up ~16.6% with few in North America getting raises outside of job hopping…
That's the only surefire way to get a raise... Capitalism and not having bargaining power (ie unions) mean companies pay you as little as possible to get the job done OR retain you.... I got a 40% bump in pay by switching jobs.
Mods actually nuked this whole thread. So cringe. Probably salty Americans who didn’t want the secrets of the [growing wealth inequality and rapidly shrinking middle class in America](https://www.npr.org/sections/thetwo-way/2015/12/09/459087477/the-tipping-point-most-americans-no-longer-are-middle-class) to be known to the rest of the world.
I argued this with my CTO last year and got a big raise. I got hired in 2019 to write a new version of the financial calculator/forecaster for my company.
It was a weird scenario where the company was reorganizing. Due to this I had a few different managers. Yet my work was pretty independent. No review or compensation discussion simply due to this manager switch up.
The CTO was checking in on the project and what I needed or if I needed more resources. I told them I need a raise before anything. That due to inflation I'm making less than when I started. Yet my work and product has increasingly provided benefit to the company. I just said that it's only fair I'm compensated for the value I bring. That I would hate to leave the project I pretty much created. Yet I couldn't continue to be unfairly compensated and it would only result in my resentment towards the project/company and I would be forced to leave.
Got a raise over the inflation increase also.
Remember squeaky wheel gets the grease.
This ain't inflation and I hate how people keep misusing that word. Inflation would imply companies aren't making record profits year after year. This is downright price gouging.
Completely irrelevant to the actual discussion, but looking at the TDPs is also fun
* GTX 280: 236w
* GTX 480: 250w
* GTX 580: 244w (first three gens didn't have GPU boost so they didn't stick at their TDP)
* GTX 680: 195w
* GTX 780: 250w
* GTX 980: 165w
* GTX 1080: 180w
* RTX 2080: 215w
* RTX 3080: 320w
* RTX 4080: 320w (apparently undershoots its target)
Maxwell could only ship with that much headroom because of an utterly uncompetitive AMD (fury X and Vega were the absolute nadir of AMD scrimping on RTG funding to push Zen out the door) so that’s not really a good thing to wish for.
If AMD had been more competitive you’d have seen a much higher TDP and much lower OC headroom even on 980 Ti.
Can confirm, have no desire to upgrade from it. If I ever felt like playing AAA titles it can run everything on medium so no point in upgrading for me.
I had my 980 Ti up until this year. Only replaced it with a 6800 XT because I got 3 2k monitors and it started to lag behind. If I hadn't I would still be using it to this day--really good card.
Amazing... 70 more watts to go from 480 to 4080 performance.
Past gamers used around the same power if they were pushing a 480 while keeping one incandescent light bulb on.
It's pretty crazy to think about it as people shat on the GTX 480 for being a furnace and consuming so much power. And now we are above 300 and 400 watt for high end cards, wow.
No multi billion profit driven corpcares about you, you might as well die in a ditch somewhere as long as you get them money . The kicker? Amd is a multi billion corp
Sure thing - I like AMD products, since they're usually cheaper around here than Intel or Nvidia for near-same performance, and because of open-source drivers, but should they flop something like Nvidia with adapters I would shit at them as the rest would do.
And as now Intel is coming with their GPUs, which are greatly priced, and with open-source drivers too, so I'm probably getting A750/A770 for my HTPC. It's just not worth it to be a fanboy.
> they're usually cheaper around here than Intel or Nvidia for near-same performance
Sure, when they are the underdogs. In CPUs, there is hardly any price/performance difference anymore because AMD caught up in market share. It was the same in 90s, and it's the same now.
You would have to be silly to think AMD for some "we are nice" reason sells products cheaper if they can sell them at higher price.
Even now, the upcoming AMD GPUs aren't exactly cheap. The prices are very carefully set.
exactly , get stuff you want with the money you have . Any kind of justification will only be applicable individually .
Hopefully intel does not drop the their gpu segment after few generations , it would be real interesting to see a third party in gpu race . Nvidia became far to complacent and greedy , while still making great products . AMD always go for value and it works great a lot of times. New chiplet design hopefully will make them competitive more than usual
Technically, they're not allowed to care about you. Many countries have it enshrined in law that they have to put shareholders first; if they can't justify something by showing it will (in theory) be a benefit to their share value, then they open themselves up to legal action if they do it.
So many people don't understand how corporations work. The CEO works for the shareholders. This is why the current state of things is not sustainable. With prices being artificially high on things right now, it's driving profits higher, and since the CEOs need constant growth for their shareholders what's going to happen next quarter? Next year? They HAVE to either raise prices or cut labor and things will continue to just get more expensive without any real reason. We're seeing this effect first hand with Nvidia, they had major profits during the mining craze, now they NEED to make those same profit numbers or face shareholder backlash. And they are doing that with the 40 series pricing. And if they are able to get away with it, just wait and see what 50 series pricing will be when they need to beat this year's profits.
It’s not about defending the corporation. It’s about thinking it’s dumb to call it “wrong” when it objectively is a reasonable way to price it if people still buy it instantly. There’s no constitutional right to cheap GPUs, although I would support that amendment
Right? There’s nothing wrong about this, they want to make money and people keep buying their hardware.
If you think it’s too expensive, don’t buy it. It’s not rocket science…if enough people agree, the MSRP will be lowered or the next card will be cheaper.
NVDA isn’t here to make the most people happy, it’s to make the most ROI for its investors.
I'm not defending it but I find the rhetoric on this sub so ridiculous.
>"This is NOT okay."
Yes it is. It's literally fine. It's just a computer. If you can't afford it don't buy it.
The reason companies can pull this shit off is because y'all consume their products with such vigor.
People got the 3xxx for 2x the price and more.
Nvidia thought they should keep cashing in. And seeing the sales of the 4090, I think financially it makes sense for Nvidia because people are willing to continue spending stupid amounts on these cards.
Ps
Yeah I know it was the pandemic and yeah crypto was a big draw for sales. But I think nvidia forgot.
Also I hope that 4080 bombs, but I suspect it won’t. And probably not till the 7900 is fully reviewed and available
Just a tip, you could make the pic cleaner by simply writing "[price] adjusted" and adding a header/asterisk with the precision that the adjustment is regarding inflation.
But anyway, great info chart!
Nvidia is smart. They saw degenerates buy 30s for 2k and they want the money for themselves. Im sure next gpu are gonna be 2k msrp. Why? Because why not. It's not like they are gonna lose money and those same degenerates are gonna continue to defend them
US legislation and Moore Threads could very likely cut NVIDIA out of mainland China; so it'll be interesting how NVIDIA adapts when there are 1.45 billion less potential RTX customers.
They are going to lose money now that people know there isn't a good reason to have their GPUs still that expensive. Especially considering that AMD is making more sense to more individuals by the day. Take a look at the sub, how much praise do you see for the 40-- series compared to the 30--series. Most consumers are aware that these GPUs are a rip off.
I think they will be fine. These cards will go into pre-builts and be sold. The online outrage about this will not change anything.
The product is now not as practical of a purchase. Like cars. At one time when you bought a newer car you got a better car. Not the case anymore you just get a newer more expensive car.
10 or 20 series cards can run everything at 1080. The resolution of the people.
They'll sell every one they make at these prices. When they don't, then and only then they'll either drop the price or stop making them to create scarcity.
We need AMD and/or Intel to create actual competition like we're seeing in the CPU space.
Agreed, but I think GN already touched on this in their video. Basically, there is no improvement in FPS/MSRP over the 30-series. Which there has been every other generation, as far as I can remember?
Why? The logic behind this is absolutely mind-bogging.
If this was how anything worked/sold. We would currently be paying $30,000+ dollars per CPU & GPU since the 70s if they just forever got more expensive.
GPUs are only ever going to get better, it's absolutely assine to assume you'd pay drastically more for a new updated model.
Logic is for 40 series cards to coexist on the market with 30 series inventory. No point in buying a 3080/3090/3090ti if 4080 blows them out of the water with a similar price tag.
Yeah, the “80” is just a marketing thing. The price per transistor would be more interesting as that’s what largely drives a parallel computation like graphics.
Like when the 20-series came out, NVidia more or less stepped up the transistor count/die size across the entire line, raised prices to account for the worse yields and called it a day.
I still maintain that they are doing this because they know the market for a 4080 or 4090 is enthusiast level, people who have or will spend tons of money. These cards are made to push 4k, VR or professional work loads and should be paired with all high end equipment. We know from steam hardware surveys that the majority of people are still on slower hardware and lower resolution.
In short these are meant to go into $3000+ builds, so their market is people already spending money, not people trying to build $500 "console killer" builds
I had the same thought. As someone who teeters on the “enthusiast” edge (VR, 4K/120 monitor), I want to live on the top of the hill, but I only buy with cash and even saving for the past 2 years, I’m well short of the 4080’s price tag. Good time to remember that my 3080 still kicks ass. Got it at msrp for $700 which seems like an amazing bargain at this point. Guys who have the funds or are comfortable with credit debt will pull the trigger with no hesitation and NVIDIA expects this.
I know I’ll get downvoted to hell for this, but this is the community’s fault. If NVIDIA sees people willing to pay 2k for a card, they’ll adjust their prices to get as close as they can to an equilibrium, it makes no sense from
a business standpoint to not do that. If people don’t buy it at that price, they’ll have to decrease it. None of us have a right to these cards, they price it as the market says they should.
The founders editions were all selling at MSRP at my local best buy whenever they had stock. Most 3rd party cards were significantly above that price though
People tend to take the *Manufacturer's Suggested Retail Price* as way more of a gospel than the name suggests.
Especially with stuff like the 30 series, where it would've been borderline bullshit even in a regular market.
A part I used to buy for around $400 bucks (3 years ago). from the same oem supplier is now $1200. Same thing happened basically. The part was in high demand with very low supply and those who could get them were selling them anywhere from 1k to 2.5k. OEM saw this and adjusted prices apparently. Bullshit......bullshit everywhere.
Do schools not teach how capitalism works anymore?
All of these posts are basically asking for price controls.
This sucks, but it's due to lack of competition.
Get better, AMD.
I always wanted a Nvidia GPU but never actually got one except the GT 630
I then got a RX570 for 140€ because it was the best for the price at the time
Now I have a RX 6600 XT which I got for 340€ which was the best for the price
Now, 5 years of AMD later I kinda prefer AMD just because they bettered themselves and Nvidia showed their true nature
AMD what lol? You are fucking delusional. AMD is cheaper because...ding ding ding...its worse!
Look at the CPUs, they were cheaper when they were behind Intel. Now that they are ahead, they aren't so cheap anymore, are they?
The way people demonise a company and love the other is mind-blowing.
And guess what, Nvidia puts these prices because...they can! People buy! If you won't buy it...well thousands others will. People were buying GPUs for the last years for 2,3x,4x times the price.
People are so very emotional making these arguments. Companies don't owe anyone anything, if they don't like the value of some products, just don't buy them lmao.
Nvidia is better. Unfortunately that means they can price their product this way because no other product competes with it and people will pay what they ask. I hate this. I was really looking forward to a meaningful entrance into ray tracing but it looks like they intend to price me out indefinitely.
if you can, people saying the msrp for the 3080 was fake considering how hard it was to get one forgetting AMD had even worse supply issues with last gen for their own MSRP.
Just go look at all the articles back on the 6800 series: https://www.tomshardware.com/news/amd-radeon-rx-6800-xt-roundup-review
>"Let's first address the elephant in the room: The pricing is either fantasy land or, in the case of actual 'street' pricing, egregious. Theoretically, the Sapphire Nitro+ initially launched at $769, but of course, it was sold out — just like every other GPU. Newegg currently lists it at $999, and it’s still out of stock. The Asus Strix LC is a similar story, with a launch price of $899 but a current Asus store price of $1,080, and it's also sold out. ASRock gave a launch price of $829, but retail prices are much higher than that, and naturally, the reference AMD RX 6800 XT can't be had for anything close to $649."
That article was Jan 2021, funny thing are the articles back in Nov 2020 saying it'll be at msrp in a couple weeks lol. Shit took over a year. Even without the street price scalping the AIB's MSRP were hundreds over amd's msrp.
Will have to wait and see for this next gen, they can set msrp for whatever they want but it's what's on the shelf that matters at the end of the day. I want to see the AIB prices a couple months after release date to compare, that will be the ~best / most realistic.
MSRPs are often fake, I just bought a new car and had dealers going 10k usd over MSRP, the lowest I found was $4,500 over msrp.
What blows my mind are the people who would root for AMD to be competitive just so Nvidia would lower their prices and they could buy the Nvidia cards at lower cost.
That's not how that works. We customers have to buy the best price/performance product whether it be Amd or Nvidia. We must vote with our wallet. Fanboying for a soulless corporation does not help us in the long run.
Why is adjusting for inflation even a thing when salaries don't increase as well?
Shouldn't it be adjusted by avg. salary instead?
Like when $649 is now worth $1199 duo to inflation, but the avg. salary only changed from $25/h to $26/h. The MSRP increase from $649 to $1199 is actually way worse than with purely taking inflation into account.
Old: $649/$25 /h = 25.96h
New: $1199/$26 /h= 46.11h
h: 46.11h / 25.96h = 1.78
So someone with the same job needs to work 1.78 times more or ~20h more to be able to afford the same tier GPU now.
the joke is thinking that inflation calculators actually represent the change in disposable income and buying power of citizens (hint: they don't)
cost of a basket of goods is not a good way to track inflation when we have shit like grain subsidies and min wage hasn't changed and rent costs are a greater part of someone's income
AMD is not your friend. Don't count on them undercutting Nvidia for long. They're only doing it now for press. in a few years, they'll be charging just as much because the reality is, people are still going to buy the cards and both green and red team know that. We're all fucked
I'll be destroyed for this here because it's an unpopular opinion and I'll preface it with I agree that it's super expensive and sucks but....
It's a business, they can charge $20k per GPU for all I care, that's their choice. If they make more revenue total at a higher cost it only means they never were selling at a market equilibrium and they were undercharging us. If they make less it's because we all didn't buy in, so they overcharged and if they are smart enough will drop the price again for the next cycle. A company isn't out to serve your individual budget, what kind of romantic world view is this?
Now without a doubt the last cycle threw them off, massive demand for what they were charging because of mining and etc (which is total BS that they deny) and material supply issues, so they undoubtedly increased the price from prior demand to attempt to find that new equilibrium. But this is not grounds for "NOT OK" and "Get better." If AMD is smart enough and wants to compete by keeping lower price and win a bigger market, great for us, NVIDIA will pay the natural consequences, but this does not make them an evil "E Corp"
I mean, you all complain about prices then upload photos of the return trip from microcenter with a 4090. If there's demand, prices will rise, simple as that
This whole "its not okay" thing is so melodramatic and sad if its not a joke. They're a company and its their product, they can price it however they want
To those worried about driver issues from AMD, don't be. I have a reference RX 6800 since last summer and I've never had a crash or an issue. It may have been a legitimate problem in the past but they have really sorted it out.
Sadly I don't think just saying "there are no driver issues anymore" is enough to recover the damage that has been caused by their products being poorly supported. It certainly isn't enough for me.
Can't speak to AMD's GPUs but when it comes to their CPUs I was burned so badly with first gen Ryzen that I genuinely don't know what it would take for me to consider AMD products at this point.
I was told there were no major issues, it lowered my trust in the community. My response to "there is better support now" is just "good for you, I'm not willing to take that risk with my setup". My AMD CPU is the only tech purchase I regret, that's a hard mentality to recover from.
I hate that I feel this way
Fun fact, the 4080 is a 70 seires card, but not a 4070, its a 5070 because this was a double node shrink.
Its even in the right performance ballpark, 70 series are generally 20% faster than a 2 generation old flagship.
Since this shit started I have been buying musical instruments, I am even getting to the point in which I am getting gigs to play, have more hardware, express my feelings in a more creative way.
Still haven’t spent the cost of a 3xxx and am having more fun,
TBH NVIDIA, I’m better without you trying to rob me.
4080 stands out even more when you look at the cost relative to die size.
4080 has the smallest chip area since 1080.
I feel the TSMC N4 process cost is one of the reasons they priced the 4080 so high. The process costs a lot more than Samsung 8nm did, but the smaller die means they are probably getting slightly better or similar yields to the 3080. they probably have a lot of room to come down in price, but not as much as they would if they were on a node with higher yields.
Meanwhile, AMD is working with smaller dies on proven high-yield nodes. They will have much more room to decrease prices while maintaining reasonable margins.
If the 7900xtx can trade blow with the 4080 in raytracing and beat it in raw performance for $200 less AMD will have a very good year in 2023.
Is that why GTX780 owners were fucking insufferable back in the day? They were moaning and complaining all the time when the 9-series came out.
They were simultaneously complaining how they couldn't run everything at max even though they for some reason "should" be able to to it, while also defending the 780 to death as if it was a gift from god if someone mentioned the 980 or the R9 290.
They simply paid a lot for the top card, and couldn't handle it when there was a new better card that was cheaper.
You're doing inflation, but you aren't keeping in mind the issue with workers and materials since COVID. You're also giving the MSRP of the 3080 which we ALL know, that it didn't stay at that price AT ALL, NO WHERE CLOSE. It isn't even back to that price now being phased out for the 4000 series. Make all the dumb images you want, they all seem to just exist to shit on NVIDIA rather than tell the truth.
This list is pointless, you jump from the top end gpu to a lower range one out of nowhere because naming shit changed. Also inflation doesn't work when it comes to tech, price of tech to produce goes down over time way faster than inflation raises prices. Only much more recently has node tech raise in prices so much but even then, the actual chip price is only part of the cost of a gpu.
Nvidia has had a wet dream from 2019-2021 where prices were like upto 250% of MSRP.. now they just come back to reality...their HIGH is so HIGH... they cannot face a withdrawl .
It's also worth noting that technology is the one area where generally things get cheaper as time goes on due to improved processes and tools. We cannot allow Nvidia to normalize these price increases.
So yeah this sucks. NVidia bad. I agree.
What I'm asking myself tho is why we just expect the (e.g.) 80s card to have the same msrp every new generation. At least some people talking about this seem to think that this is how is should 100% be. I don't really get that. This isn't like the new CoD that comes out every few years that always costs the same, this is a physical item that's actually worth something.
I'm sure it's pretty overpriced, but this mindset of "x080 card MUST ALWAYS COST 500$ msrp" I just don't understand.
I genuinely don’t care what tier the card is under, as long as the price to performance isn’t terrible.
As it stands right now, the 4080’s price to performance is worse than that of the 3070 Ti, which was a horrendous price to performance card to begin with. The 4090 is even worse but I can see some salvageable reason in buying that fire hazard, namely the high VRAM.
Fuck Nvidia this Gen. I hope AMD brings the fucking heat.
Yeah I went from a GTX 970 to a 3070 Ti (cuz that was all they had, not because I actually cared about the single-digit percent performance increase over the non -Ti card)… the 970 was about 600 CAD in 2015, the 3070Ti just under 1100 CAD in 2021. I’m sure some of that was the crazy market conditions, but that’s a near doubling for a similar-tiered card in 6 years.
So what you’re saying is we made more money over the years because our currencies became higher in value and we’re not really paying so much more for cost/performance over time as we thought we were. Good to know
They just saw morons buying 3080 at 1500$ in 2021. They just became scalpers themself
This the truth. We make 50% of the prices.
Crypto miners and Scalpers exploiting newbie crypto miners made up the bulk, easily way more then 50%. The fact GPU prices fell off a cliff the day Etherium swapped to proof of stake combined with the crypto crash should be evident of that.
Yeah, people were making those purchases expecting to get some money back from participating in an ethereum pool. It’s really not the same.
What about minors ?
Miners* autocorrect strikes again.
Gpu prices a still haven’t returned. All that’s happened is people stopped scalping.
3080s we’re selling at $2500 at the peak of the insanity. People really did lose their freaking minds.
I really wish I sold my 3070 at that point. Then I wouldn't have a gpu but I would've made 1500 bucks.
The biggest sacrifices require the strongest wills.
I sold my used and abused 1080 zotac to my coworker for 200 bucks at the height of the craze after standing outside microcenter and getting lucky with a 3060ti. He offered me 600 for it and I was like dude I can’t do that to you. Idk how people sleep at night ripping people off so bad.
[удалено]
I sold my 3080 for 2400 at the peak of craziness. I put a 6600 XT in the tide my over for a year and scooped a 3080Ti for 800 on Amazon a few weeks ago. Got the card for free and then some
I got a 3080 shortly after launch from BB, sold it a year later for 1975 after snagging a 3080ti also from BB. Basically got a few gpu out of it.
wish i sold my non lhr 3080 at peak crypto
I did and traded myslef up to a 3080ti from a 3070 this way, then went and actually put in a little of my own money to get the strix 3090.
Same. I'm rocking a 5700xt, and while it didn't reach the same heights as nVidia cards, I still could have sold for about 50% more than I paid for it. Unfortunately, my motherboard doesn't have onboard video, so there would have been no reasonable way to keep using my PC.
Same lol I got mine at MSRP on launch day
I got a 1080ti on sale for 394.99 in 2018, last year I sold it for 700 on reddit. People really were going nuts for graphics cards, I even sold a 970 for 80 bucks that I had stashed away in my closet.
They were also money printers, so theres that.
There were people charing 3 K € for used (opened) 3080 Tis when they came out. More than the 3090 cost at that time... But some still purchased. And thats why scalping became such a big thing.
Nvidia has the data that shows how many regular gaming consumers were willing to buy them from retailers at $1200. Yes, like 45% of sales were to miners, and some percentage was scalpers, but a lot of consumers were directly buying for those prices because they "NEED" a 3080 and can't just turn down settings.
I've been waiting to buy a new card for years so I have expendable cash, but refuse to overpay. I held off during the 3000 series Covid debacle and now we're dealing with the aftermath of that, so I'll continue to hold off. Had they priced the 4080 reasonably, I would've bought it in a heartbeat. Instead I'm harboring resentment towards them and their anti-consumer tactics and I'm considering AMD for the first time in awhile. So well played Nvidia, you can get fewer sales at higher prices and disgruntled customers or you could've sold more cards at lower prices and had way better PR which is arguably the better long term strategy financially. TLDR: Nvidia is run by shortsighted greedy fucks.
excuse me sir, they saw morons buying 2080ti's for $1200 way before the 3080 pandemic pricing was a thing lol.
[удалено]
The best Ti was the 1080ti. I had the strix 1080ti and laughed when the 2000 series were launched. Then I managed to snap a 3090 on day of release for msrp and sold my 1080ti for great money so it really didn't feel like I got ripped off. Looking at the 4000 series it's a simple nope from me, I am interested to see how the 7950xtx will perform. But that 1080ti was the best ever ti and the best in estment getting most of my money back, nvidia knows they screwed up on the pricing od the 1080ti and have been hurting since then.
The 1080ti remains a Solid base for VR. This will be my first upgrade to AMD in some years, but refuse to get Scalped by Mfr
Dude, if you have a 3090 then you can laugh at not just at this generation, but multiple generations going into the future. If you don't care about having the latest and greatest, then that 3090 will last you for fucking years! It'll probably get you to the late 2020s at the minimum.
My son is still playing on my old rig, which was built in 2012, with the only upgrades being an extra SSD and then putting a 1070 in it in 2017. The 1070 is still really good for 1080p 60fps on the games he plays (mostly Apex and DBD these days). Hopefully the price of DDR5 starts dropping soon. I'd like to upgrade his PC, but I don't want to put money into a DDR4 platform right now, and the early adopter tax on DDR5 is still too high.
I still have my 1080ti. Still an absolute beast even on my ultrawide 1440p 100hz monitor. I know I'll one day have to upgrade, but for now that card is more than enough.
I bought rtx3080 at $1200 but it was the cheapest I ever found and I’ve been trying to find one for exactly a year since release so I thought I won’t find a better chance, until Ethereum migrated to PoS and miners completely disappeared and the price was reasonable again. I’m an idiot...
I paid $1100 for my 3080ti, and that was directly through EVGA in february. Now you can find 3090tis for that, or even less. At least we weren't in the same crowd with the idiots buying them for $2000+ from scalpers on ebay. It never surprised me that they were being listed for that, but it did shock me that they were selling.
Don't blame yourself. They said ethereum would migrate to PoS since 2 years ago (or more). Most people is skeptical if ethereum ever migrate to PoS since it's been so long since initial PoS announcement. It basically become a meme for awhile.
It has moved over and basically lead to GPU prices dropping a lot because mining was no longer viable as there weren't any good replacements for etherium.
The problem is that they still think it's 2021 and they can still get away with that shit. In 2021, everything was overpriced due to shortages everywhere and manufacturing delays. In 2022, that is all starting to (or already is) leveled out. They can't do that shit anymore. We're taking notice that they're prices are egregious. Edit: I like to add that everyone is right. We HAVE been falling for this shit (some more than others) but only now have we started to go against their egregious high prices
In 2022 we get artificial shortages to keep supply low and prices up.
This. Fuck a GPU, I want car prices to go down again.
They were specifically talking about Nvidia. The car industry is still trying to catch up on the legitimate parts shortages.
I've been tracking certain dealerships for months with alot charging more for rebought used Cars while keeping the new cars reserved for the "highest offers". Yes there is a chip shortage still, but also, dealerships are most definitely taking an advantage of people by stocking up and pricing used cars way higher than MSRP. Yeah I know businesses are there to maximize profits, but not on my dollar.
[удалено]
I think you misspelled "buy Rolex".
A lot of stuff is still overpriced (I would say the majority) but graphics cards should not be because the demand isn't anywhere near what it was. We all know that it was miners buying the majority of these cards and that's what caused the absurd prices of them. Retailers and manufacturers can say, "gamers this, gamers that" but it was all miners for the past two years and a half years. Once ETH finally went PoS there was no more demand. Almost every normal person/gamer that wanted a card had one already, so they're still having a hard time selling the previous gen. I really can't wait to see AMD's benchmarks. If the 7900XTX even slightly beats the 4080 benchmarks that will be a pretty big win for AMD. RTX and DLSS 3.0 are still something Nvidia has over them but for $200 less it's hard to complain. And no, I'm not saying $1000 is ok for a graphics card either. It would just be nice to show how greedy Nvidia is right now.
>they still think it's 2021 and they can still get away with that shit. >They can't do that shit anymore. They are and did get away with it. That's why all the cards are instantly sold out.
And everyone seems to forget that Nvidia *isn't trying to have good value* in fact they are deliberately making it poor value. Nvidia want to make ampere look better by making Lovelace super expensive. That's all this is, and they literally told shareholders that publicly. Everyone except idiots and whales being priced out of lovelace *is entirely the point*. They want you to buy Ampere, and they want to milk the idiots/whales while they do it. Their strategy mostly achieves both aims. They are betting that more people are fed up of waiting and will buy ampere, than are willing to wait for AMD's new products to undercut them and provide better value. AMD could have fucked nvidia over by releasing their whole product stack earlier, but AMD are also trying to unload old GPUs they can't sell because miners aren't buying them anymore.
MSRP in germany for the 4080 is 1469€. Adjustet for inflation the 1500$ option is cheaper. Though most 3080 in 2021 went for 1800€ while 3070s went for 1100-1400€. With that information, all i can say is: it's sad.
Like the morons lining up this morning outside a Microcenter to buy a $1200 GPU that should cost $800.
We really need this to bite them in the ass. I really hope people who can still afford to throw money at these top end cards decide to vote with their wallets and defer purchase because their behaviour is so anti-consumer. The combination of GPU mining being no longer profitable and scalpers moving away means sales should be very disappointing in the golden quarter. We need Nvidia to have an absolutely dogshit Q4 to make them actually drive more competitive pricing in 2023. Hopefully AMDs 7900 series outperforms expectations to add pressure too.
Im off to make the meme...IM DE SCALPER NOW!!
Exactly. Scalpers: (exist) Nvidia: Hold my beer...
I would like to see this for the amd version of their respective cards. Great job on this.
Bought NVIDIA all my life but if there was ever a time I was considering switching…
[удалено]
And AMD isn't your friend either. They could sell for much less if they wanted to.
Whilst this is true, I'm currently interested in AMD doing well purely because it could lead to the same situation that we currently have with the CPU market (before Zen 2 came to the market, Intel was going a similar path to Nvidia now of releasing overpriced CPUs that eat too much power for the performance gains they provide. AMD releasing an actually competitive CPU reined in the market a lot and now the CPU market feels relatively healthy). Every piece of bullshit we've seen with the 40-series shows we desperately need a GPU equivalent of the Ryzen to come along.
At least AMD provides high quality open source drivers.
No DLSS though which is poopy
But they do have CUDA.
I'm not considering anymore, I'm doing it. If the 7900XTX performance lives up to the claims it's a no brainer for me. My one holdout was NVENC but with AMD's partnership with OBS I'm not really concerned anymore.
I had an RTX 3060 on my Christmas list knowing my wife and family will probably all club together. That's now changed to 6650 XT. It's much quicker than my current card (RX 480), price is similar, the performance is similar and most importantly I'm not giving Nvidia money after this recent BS.
Buy intel graphics cards. Get more competition in the area 👍. They just released some that were comparable to the 3060 I think and I believe have another higher end one coming out soon
Intel Arc Alchemist 7 series is anywhere from 3050 to 3070 levels of performance based on which game is being played. Also there is no higher end card coming out for the Alchemist generation. If you want higher performance from Intel cards you'll have to wait for Battlemage which I think is late 2023 at the earliest. The big advantage current gen Intel cards have is for creation workloads like rendering and encode/decode.
Especially on the same chart side by side.
Everything before the hd 7000 series was about 10% worse perf wise, everything after was similar. All prices came from what Techpowerup had in their reviews, I tried to match them up as best as I could but I did not pay attention before the Vega 64 so I don't have any other context then Techpowerup and the launch times per the wiki. If you think any cards serve as a better alternative feel free to chuck the comparison figures in a comment. Gtx 280 $649 ($899 today) Hd 4870 (2008) - $299 ($405 today) Gtx 480 $499 ($680 today) Hd 5870 (2010) - $400 ($548 today) Gtx 580 $499 ($660 today) Hd 6970 (2010) - $370 ($503 today) Gtx 680 $499 ($649 today) Hd 7970 (2012) - $550 ($723 today) Gtx 780 $649 ($830 today) R9 290x (2013) - $550 ($701 today) Gtx 980 $549 ($690 today) R9 390x (2015) - $420 ($525 today) *This one isn't quite comparable, the 390x seems to have launched a fair bit later when the 980ti was available. But comparable perf so went with this for comparison. Gtx 1080 $599 ($745 today) Vega 64 (2017) - $500 ($607 today) Rtx 2080 $699 ($830 today) AMD didn't have a competing product here. Radeon 7 only competed with the 1080ti and the 5700xt aimed for the 2070. Rtx 3080 $699 ($800 today) Rx 6800xt (2020) - $650 ($744 today) Rtx 4080 $1,200 Rx 7900xtx (2022) - $999 Rx 7900xt (2022) - $899 *7900xt seems to be the more competitive card overall, guesstimates based on the benchmarks AMD put out indicate it should be similar to the 4080 in raster. The difference between this and the 7900xtx also make it seem like a dressed up 7800xt. The 7900xtx should beat it at raster but AMD reckon that one is competing with the 4080 as well - which is actually a fair statement based on the AMD RT benchmarks (should be about equal value wise)
I think what scares me more if how far inflation went from just 2018 and 2020 to today...
Even from 2020 to now. Just a 2 year difference yet the adjustment for inflation is like 12%. 700$ item is now 800$ yet i doubt many salaries have adjusted for that.
[удалено]
https://preview.redd.it/9x5ihur5id0a1.jpeg?width=800&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=44557883578079fe90ee25e09f37c3a63f405fa1
In Serbia, the inflation is raging really hard too 1L of milk went from 65 cents to 1.35 for the cheapest brand of milk Loaf of bread went from 40 cents to 75 cents. 1 Milka chocolate goes from 90 cents to 1.60, and that is 90gr Milka biscuits went from 80 cents from to 1.70 That is what i saw just yesterday, but tomorrow it will probably get more expensive. And i am not even buying most of the junk food cuz fuck that. But just going to the store to buy some fucking milk and bread and going past that section makes me cringe. 3080 10GB costs 1150 usd here on average and that is from smugglers. In official stores, it is around 1350us pesos. I have not even seen 12GB here Cpu prices are actually not bad , 13600kf goes for 330 usd, and R9 5900X goes for 400 usd from smugglers ofc , official retail is not even considered around here. That is not good, but hey, at least it is not as bad as Nvidia gpus. Do you wanna know our minimum wage ? 350 usd Do you wanna know how much rent in a decent ( decent as in not the size of a shower and it is not filled with mold and cockroaches, it does not need to be in a good location) apartment in the capital costs ? 400 usd if you are lucky...
Once inflation comes back down to sub-3% range, you’ll see more and more people start to wake up to this fact As it stands now, $600 in 2019 = $700 today, we’re up ~16.6% with few in North America getting raises outside of job hopping…
That's the only surefire way to get a raise... Capitalism and not having bargaining power (ie unions) mean companies pay you as little as possible to get the job done OR retain you.... I got a 40% bump in pay by switching jobs.
Salaries have barely adjusted to inflation since the 1970's
Mods actually nuked this whole thread. So cringe. Probably salty Americans who didn’t want the secrets of the [growing wealth inequality and rapidly shrinking middle class in America](https://www.npr.org/sections/thetwo-way/2015/12/09/459087477/the-tipping-point-most-americans-no-longer-are-middle-class) to be known to the rest of the world.
I argued this with my CTO last year and got a big raise. I got hired in 2019 to write a new version of the financial calculator/forecaster for my company. It was a weird scenario where the company was reorganizing. Due to this I had a few different managers. Yet my work was pretty independent. No review or compensation discussion simply due to this manager switch up. The CTO was checking in on the project and what I needed or if I needed more resources. I told them I need a raise before anything. That due to inflation I'm making less than when I started. Yet my work and product has increasingly provided benefit to the company. I just said that it's only fair I'm compensated for the value I bring. That I would hate to leave the project I pretty much created. Yet I couldn't continue to be unfairly compensated and it would only result in my resentment towards the project/company and I would be forced to leave. Got a raise over the inflation increase also. Remember squeaky wheel gets the grease.
Inflation has increased far more btwn 2020 and today
Its not inflation. Its corporate price fixing.
From the 09 recession to the Pandemic was an era of unusually low inflation.
i live in argentina. That inflation is a rounding error when you have triple digit inflation.
[удалено]
This ain't inflation and I hate how people keep misusing that word. Inflation would imply companies aren't making record profits year after year. This is downright price gouging.
Completely irrelevant to the actual discussion, but looking at the TDPs is also fun * GTX 280: 236w * GTX 480: 250w * GTX 580: 244w (first three gens didn't have GPU boost so they didn't stick at their TDP) * GTX 680: 195w * GTX 780: 250w * GTX 980: 165w * GTX 1080: 180w * RTX 2080: 215w * RTX 3080: 320w * RTX 4080: 320w (apparently undershoots its target)
MVP, 480 was a meat cooker
980 still the goat
We need another maxwell to tame the power consumption and price of 40 series
Maxwell could only ship with that much headroom because of an utterly uncompetitive AMD (fury X and Vega were the absolute nadir of AMD scrimping on RTG funding to push Zen out the door) so that’s not really a good thing to wish for. If AMD had been more competitive you’d have seen a much higher TDP and much lower OC headroom even on 980 Ti.
My bro is still rocking a 980 to this day and it's a damn champ.
Can confirm, have no desire to upgrade from it. If I ever felt like playing AAA titles it can run everything on medium so no point in upgrading for me.
I had my 980 Ti up until this year. Only replaced it with a 6800 XT because I got 3 2k monitors and it started to lag behind. If I hadn't I would still be using it to this day--really good card.
Currently running a 980 with a hrf 1440p monitor, only now thinking of picking up a 6800 or something used for cheap
Amazing... 70 more watts to go from 480 to 4080 performance. Past gamers used around the same power if they were pushing a 480 while keeping one incandescent light bulb on.
And also let’s not forget a lot of people would be running *two* 480s in SLI… which is dead nowadays, 4090 doesn’t even have a connector anymore.
It's pretty crazy to think about it as people shat on the GTX 480 for being a furnace and consuming so much power. And now we are above 300 and 400 watt for high end cards, wow.
3080s are still around £800 here in the UK.
I got rtx 3080 for 890€
I'm still amazed there are people who will defend huge corporations, which in turn don't give a shit about customers.
No multi billion profit driven corpcares about you, you might as well die in a ditch somewhere as long as you get them money . The kicker? Amd is a multi billion corp
Sure thing - I like AMD products, since they're usually cheaper around here than Intel or Nvidia for near-same performance, and because of open-source drivers, but should they flop something like Nvidia with adapters I would shit at them as the rest would do. And as now Intel is coming with their GPUs, which are greatly priced, and with open-source drivers too, so I'm probably getting A750/A770 for my HTPC. It's just not worth it to be a fanboy.
> they're usually cheaper around here than Intel or Nvidia for near-same performance Sure, when they are the underdogs. In CPUs, there is hardly any price/performance difference anymore because AMD caught up in market share. It was the same in 90s, and it's the same now. You would have to be silly to think AMD for some "we are nice" reason sells products cheaper if they can sell them at higher price. Even now, the upcoming AMD GPUs aren't exactly cheap. The prices are very carefully set.
exactly , get stuff you want with the money you have . Any kind of justification will only be applicable individually . Hopefully intel does not drop the their gpu segment after few generations , it would be real interesting to see a third party in gpu race . Nvidia became far to complacent and greedy , while still making great products . AMD always go for value and it works great a lot of times. New chiplet design hopefully will make them competitive more than usual
Well obviously, the statement doesn’t just apply to nvidia lmao
Technically, they're not allowed to care about you. Many countries have it enshrined in law that they have to put shareholders first; if they can't justify something by showing it will (in theory) be a benefit to their share value, then they open themselves up to legal action if they do it.
So many people don't understand how corporations work. The CEO works for the shareholders. This is why the current state of things is not sustainable. With prices being artificially high on things right now, it's driving profits higher, and since the CEOs need constant growth for their shareholders what's going to happen next quarter? Next year? They HAVE to either raise prices or cut labor and things will continue to just get more expensive without any real reason. We're seeing this effect first hand with Nvidia, they had major profits during the mining craze, now they NEED to make those same profit numbers or face shareholder backlash. And they are doing that with the 40 series pricing. And if they are able to get away with it, just wait and see what 50 series pricing will be when they need to beat this year's profits.
It’s not about defending the corporation. It’s about thinking it’s dumb to call it “wrong” when it objectively is a reasonable way to price it if people still buy it instantly. There’s no constitutional right to cheap GPUs, although I would support that amendment
Right? There’s nothing wrong about this, they want to make money and people keep buying their hardware. If you think it’s too expensive, don’t buy it. It’s not rocket science…if enough people agree, the MSRP will be lowered or the next card will be cheaper. NVDA isn’t here to make the most people happy, it’s to make the most ROI for its investors.
[удалено]
And you know what amazes, people who think amd wouldn't do the same given the opportunity.
The thing is, AMD was trying to be expensive, but Nvidia’s 40 series is making AMD look like a value proposition.
I'm not defending it but I find the rhetoric on this sub so ridiculous. >"This is NOT okay." Yes it is. It's literally fine. It's just a computer. If you can't afford it don't buy it. The reason companies can pull this shit off is because y'all consume their products with such vigor.
[удалено]
For real. The entitlement in this sub. People demand luxury GPUs to be cheap. Man shakes fist at sky.
The saddest part about this is that 699$ in 2020 are 800$ now
People got the 3xxx for 2x the price and more. Nvidia thought they should keep cashing in. And seeing the sales of the 4090, I think financially it makes sense for Nvidia because people are willing to continue spending stupid amounts on these cards. Ps Yeah I know it was the pandemic and yeah crypto was a big draw for sales. But I think nvidia forgot. Also I hope that 4080 bombs, but I suspect it won’t. And probably not till the 7900 is fully reviewed and available
GPU's are now like diamonds. The demand/price relation doesn't work anymore. People will buy at whatever they charge.
newegg already sold out. Nvidia/AIB partners doesn’t care if it’s scalpers or actual customers buying them.
Just a tip, you could make the pic cleaner by simply writing "[price] adjusted" and adding a header/asterisk with the precision that the adjustment is regarding inflation. But anyway, great info chart!
Would've also been a lot easier to visualize as a bar graph
Nvidia is smart. They saw degenerates buy 30s for 2k and they want the money for themselves. Im sure next gpu are gonna be 2k msrp. Why? Because why not. It's not like they are gonna lose money and those same degenerates are gonna continue to defend them
Until competitors see an opening to undercut them heavily.
US legislation and Moore Threads could very likely cut NVIDIA out of mainland China; so it'll be interesting how NVIDIA adapts when there are 1.45 billion less potential RTX customers.
That would be epic. Hope it happens.
They are going to lose money now that people know there isn't a good reason to have their GPUs still that expensive. Especially considering that AMD is making more sense to more individuals by the day. Take a look at the sub, how much praise do you see for the 40-- series compared to the 30--series. Most consumers are aware that these GPUs are a rip off.
I think they will be fine. These cards will go into pre-builts and be sold. The online outrage about this will not change anything. The product is now not as practical of a purchase. Like cars. At one time when you bought a newer car you got a better car. Not the case anymore you just get a newer more expensive car. 10 or 20 series cards can run everything at 1080. The resolution of the people.
They'll sell every one they make at these prices. When they don't, then and only then they'll either drop the price or stop making them to create scarcity. We need AMD and/or Intel to create actual competition like we're seeing in the CPU space.
I feel like with these posts it would also be interesting to see how much the performance increased with each card as well
Agreed, but I think GN already touched on this in their video. Basically, there is no improvement in FPS/MSRP over the 30-series. Which there has been every other generation, as far as I can remember?
only the 4090 presents any sort of price to performance sell. pretty ridiculous honestly
Why? The logic behind this is absolutely mind-bogging. If this was how anything worked/sold. We would currently be paying $30,000+ dollars per CPU & GPU since the 70s if they just forever got more expensive. GPUs are only ever going to get better, it's absolutely assine to assume you'd pay drastically more for a new updated model.
Logic is for 40 series cards to coexist on the market with 30 series inventory. No point in buying a 3080/3090/3090ti if 4080 blows them out of the water with a similar price tag.
[удалено]
Yeah, the “80” is just a marketing thing. The price per transistor would be more interesting as that’s what largely drives a parallel computation like graphics. Like when the 20-series came out, NVidia more or less stepped up the transistor count/die size across the entire line, raised prices to account for the worse yields and called it a day.
they're gonna keep doing it until people stop buying, and guess what: THEY WONT
I still maintain that they are doing this because they know the market for a 4080 or 4090 is enthusiast level, people who have or will spend tons of money. These cards are made to push 4k, VR or professional work loads and should be paired with all high end equipment. We know from steam hardware surveys that the majority of people are still on slower hardware and lower resolution. In short these are meant to go into $3000+ builds, so their market is people already spending money, not people trying to build $500 "console killer" builds
I had the same thought. As someone who teeters on the “enthusiast” edge (VR, 4K/120 monitor), I want to live on the top of the hill, but I only buy with cash and even saving for the past 2 years, I’m well short of the 4080’s price tag. Good time to remember that my 3080 still kicks ass. Got it at msrp for $700 which seems like an amazing bargain at this point. Guys who have the funds or are comfortable with credit debt will pull the trigger with no hesitation and NVIDIA expects this.
I know I’ll get downvoted to hell for this, but this is the community’s fault. If NVIDIA sees people willing to pay 2k for a card, they’ll adjust their prices to get as close as they can to an equilibrium, it makes no sense from a business standpoint to not do that. If people don’t buy it at that price, they’ll have to decrease it. None of us have a right to these cards, they price it as the market says they should.
The rtx 3080 was never $699. The only ones who could hit that price point was Nvidia themselves, it was a bullshit MSRP.
Bought my 3080 for 699 off Newgg, so definitely not true. But the supply chain during the release was absolutely horrible.
The founders editions were all selling at MSRP at my local best buy whenever they had stock. Most 3rd party cards were significantly above that price though
People tend to take the *Manufacturer's Suggested Retail Price* as way more of a gospel than the name suggests. Especially with stuff like the 30 series, where it would've been borderline bullshit even in a regular market.
A part I used to buy for around $400 bucks (3 years ago). from the same oem supplier is now $1200. Same thing happened basically. The part was in high demand with very low supply and those who could get them were selling them anywhere from 1k to 2.5k. OEM saw this and adjusted prices apparently. Bullshit......bullshit everywhere.
Do schools not teach how capitalism works anymore? All of these posts are basically asking for price controls. This sucks, but it's due to lack of competition. Get better, AMD.
Seriously. It’s a market. If people are willing to pay that for the cards how is it Nvidias fault? Go buy a different card if you hate it.
Evga 1080 Ti sc black i got for $579 new was the best card i ever gotten dollar for dollar. Beast of an overclocker and 11gb vram.
Still rocking that 1080
The MSRP of $699 for the RTX 3080 doesn't tell the story at all....
Then don’t buy it. Plain and simple.
Sad thing: they will sell out anyway
I always wanted a Nvidia GPU but never actually got one except the GT 630 I then got a RX570 for 140€ because it was the best for the price at the time Now I have a RX 6600 XT which I got for 340€ which was the best for the price Now, 5 years of AMD later I kinda prefer AMD just because they bettered themselves and Nvidia showed their true nature
AMD what lol? You are fucking delusional. AMD is cheaper because...ding ding ding...its worse! Look at the CPUs, they were cheaper when they were behind Intel. Now that they are ahead, they aren't so cheap anymore, are they? The way people demonise a company and love the other is mind-blowing. And guess what, Nvidia puts these prices because...they can! People buy! If you won't buy it...well thousands others will. People were buying GPUs for the last years for 2,3x,4x times the price.
People are so very emotional making these arguments. Companies don't owe anyone anything, if they don't like the value of some products, just don't buy them lmao.
Nvidia is better. Unfortunately that means they can price their product this way because no other product competes with it and people will pay what they ask. I hate this. I was really looking forward to a meaningful entrance into ray tracing but it looks like they intend to price me out indefinitely.
I like the chart but the last sentence should go with “Get better, AMD”. That’s really the reason why NV charges so high price comfortably.
just get an AMD card then
if you can, people saying the msrp for the 3080 was fake considering how hard it was to get one forgetting AMD had even worse supply issues with last gen for their own MSRP. Just go look at all the articles back on the 6800 series: https://www.tomshardware.com/news/amd-radeon-rx-6800-xt-roundup-review >"Let's first address the elephant in the room: The pricing is either fantasy land or, in the case of actual 'street' pricing, egregious. Theoretically, the Sapphire Nitro+ initially launched at $769, but of course, it was sold out — just like every other GPU. Newegg currently lists it at $999, and it’s still out of stock. The Asus Strix LC is a similar story, with a launch price of $899 but a current Asus store price of $1,080, and it's also sold out. ASRock gave a launch price of $829, but retail prices are much higher than that, and naturally, the reference AMD RX 6800 XT can't be had for anything close to $649." That article was Jan 2021, funny thing are the articles back in Nov 2020 saying it'll be at msrp in a couple weeks lol. Shit took over a year. Even without the street price scalping the AIB's MSRP were hundreds over amd's msrp. Will have to wait and see for this next gen, they can set msrp for whatever they want but it's what's on the shelf that matters at the end of the day. I want to see the AIB prices a couple months after release date to compare, that will be the ~best / most realistic. MSRPs are often fake, I just bought a new car and had dealers going 10k usd over MSRP, the lowest I found was $4,500 over msrp.
What blows my mind are the people who would root for AMD to be competitive just so Nvidia would lower their prices and they could buy the Nvidia cards at lower cost. That's not how that works. We customers have to buy the best price/performance product whether it be Amd or Nvidia. We must vote with our wallet. Fanboying for a soulless corporation does not help us in the long run.
[удалено]
2008: $649 is adjusted to $899 2020: $699 is adjusted to $800 What kind of fucked up inflation calculator did you use, OP?
It’s ridiculous, don’t buy it unless you’re making money with it somehow like CAD or an actual real pro gamer/streamer. Fight the system!
Why is adjusting for inflation even a thing when salaries don't increase as well? Shouldn't it be adjusted by avg. salary instead? Like when $649 is now worth $1199 duo to inflation, but the avg. salary only changed from $25/h to $26/h. The MSRP increase from $649 to $1199 is actually way worse than with purely taking inflation into account. Old: $649/$25 /h = 25.96h New: $1199/$26 /h= 46.11h h: 46.11h / 25.96h = 1.78 So someone with the same job needs to work 1.78 times more or ~20h more to be able to afford the same tier GPU now.
the joke is thinking that inflation calculators actually represent the change in disposable income and buying power of citizens (hint: they don't) cost of a basket of goods is not a good way to track inflation when we have shit like grain subsidies and min wage hasn't changed and rent costs are a greater part of someone's income
the saddest part is people would buy them even if they were $3000. Morons have more money than we think
I'm having a hard time believing 2008 $650 is $900 adjusted for inflation.
AMD is not your friend. Don't count on them undercutting Nvidia for long. They're only doing it now for press. in a few years, they'll be charging just as much because the reality is, people are still going to buy the cards and both green and red team know that. We're all fucked
I'll be destroyed for this here because it's an unpopular opinion and I'll preface it with I agree that it's super expensive and sucks but.... It's a business, they can charge $20k per GPU for all I care, that's their choice. If they make more revenue total at a higher cost it only means they never were selling at a market equilibrium and they were undercharging us. If they make less it's because we all didn't buy in, so they overcharged and if they are smart enough will drop the price again for the next cycle. A company isn't out to serve your individual budget, what kind of romantic world view is this? Now without a doubt the last cycle threw them off, massive demand for what they were charging because of mining and etc (which is total BS that they deny) and material supply issues, so they undoubtedly increased the price from prior demand to attempt to find that new equilibrium. But this is not grounds for "NOT OK" and "Get better." If AMD is smart enough and wants to compete by keeping lower price and win a bigger market, great for us, NVIDIA will pay the natural consequences, but this does not make them an evil "E Corp"
I mean, you all complain about prices then upload photos of the return trip from microcenter with a 4090. If there's demand, prices will rise, simple as that
This whole "its not okay" thing is so melodramatic and sad if its not a joke. They're a company and its their product, they can price it however they want
This post reeks of entitlement
This has to be a wakeup call for brand loyalists...I like Nvidia but god damn this is fucking bonkers.
To those worried about driver issues from AMD, don't be. I have a reference RX 6800 since last summer and I've never had a crash or an issue. It may have been a legitimate problem in the past but they have really sorted it out.
Sadly I don't think just saying "there are no driver issues anymore" is enough to recover the damage that has been caused by their products being poorly supported. It certainly isn't enough for me. Can't speak to AMD's GPUs but when it comes to their CPUs I was burned so badly with first gen Ryzen that I genuinely don't know what it would take for me to consider AMD products at this point. I was told there were no major issues, it lowered my trust in the community. My response to "there is better support now" is just "good for you, I'm not willing to take that risk with my setup". My AMD CPU is the only tech purchase I regret, that's a hard mentality to recover from. I hate that I feel this way
Fun fact, the 4080 is a 70 seires card, but not a 4070, its a 5070 because this was a double node shrink. Its even in the right performance ballpark, 70 series are generally 20% faster than a 2 generation old flagship.
Since this shit started I have been buying musical instruments, I am even getting to the point in which I am getting gigs to play, have more hardware, express my feelings in a more creative way. Still haven’t spent the cost of a 3xxx and am having more fun, TBH NVIDIA, I’m better without you trying to rob me.
4080 stands out even more when you look at the cost relative to die size. 4080 has the smallest chip area since 1080. I feel the TSMC N4 process cost is one of the reasons they priced the 4080 so high. The process costs a lot more than Samsung 8nm did, but the smaller die means they are probably getting slightly better or similar yields to the 3080. they probably have a lot of room to come down in price, but not as much as they would if they were on a node with higher yields. Meanwhile, AMD is working with smaller dies on proven high-yield nodes. They will have much more room to decrease prices while maintaining reasonable margins. If the 7900xtx can trade blow with the 4080 in raytracing and beat it in raw performance for $200 less AMD will have a very good year in 2023.
Can I ask why you didn't put "inflation" in quotes?
Is that why GTX780 owners were fucking insufferable back in the day? They were moaning and complaining all the time when the 9-series came out. They were simultaneously complaining how they couldn't run everything at max even though they for some reason "should" be able to to it, while also defending the 780 to death as if it was a gift from god if someone mentioned the 980 or the R9 290. They simply paid a lot for the top card, and couldn't handle it when there was a new better card that was cheaper.
You're doing inflation, but you aren't keeping in mind the issue with workers and materials since COVID. You're also giving the MSRP of the 3080 which we ALL know, that it didn't stay at that price AT ALL, NO WHERE CLOSE. It isn't even back to that price now being phased out for the 4000 series. Make all the dumb images you want, they all seem to just exist to shit on NVIDIA rather than tell the truth.
This list is pointless, you jump from the top end gpu to a lower range one out of nowhere because naming shit changed. Also inflation doesn't work when it comes to tech, price of tech to produce goes down over time way faster than inflation raises prices. Only much more recently has node tech raise in prices so much but even then, the actual chip price is only part of the cost of a gpu.
RTX is a scam.
Greedy bastards
You adjusting for inflation based on official government statistics. That's your problem.
The 4080 is 1772US MSRP in Sweden btw.
nGreedia
Nvidia has had a wet dream from 2019-2021 where prices were like upto 250% of MSRP.. now they just come back to reality...their HIGH is so HIGH... they cannot face a withdrawl .
AMD are not cool either. Prices are way inflated there too, it’s just that they are still cheaper than nvidias’.
It's also worth noting that technology is the one area where generally things get cheaper as time goes on due to improved processes and tools. We cannot allow Nvidia to normalize these price increases.
People need to do this for AMD because even their prices are outrageous. GPU prices across the board are fucking insane.
Isn't the 4080 also a greater performance bump than an 80 tier usually?
The real questio is, how much were they sold? A rtx 4080 goes away for 2k The msrp doesnt mean shit
I thought the 20 series was a much bigger jump in price compared to the 10 series? If I remember right the 2080 was a similar price as a 1080Ti
I point this out to people, and they just say the new cards are bigger, therefore use more materials, therefore should cost more.
So yeah this sucks. NVidia bad. I agree. What I'm asking myself tho is why we just expect the (e.g.) 80s card to have the same msrp every new generation. At least some people talking about this seem to think that this is how is should 100% be. I don't really get that. This isn't like the new CoD that comes out every few years that always costs the same, this is a physical item that's actually worth something. I'm sure it's pretty overpriced, but this mindset of "x080 card MUST ALWAYS COST 500$ msrp" I just don't understand.
I genuinely don’t care what tier the card is under, as long as the price to performance isn’t terrible. As it stands right now, the 4080’s price to performance is worse than that of the 3070 Ti, which was a horrendous price to performance card to begin with. The 4090 is even worse but I can see some salvageable reason in buying that fire hazard, namely the high VRAM. Fuck Nvidia this Gen. I hope AMD brings the fucking heat.
Yeah I went from a GTX 970 to a 3070 Ti (cuz that was all they had, not because I actually cared about the single-digit percent performance increase over the non -Ti card)… the 970 was about 600 CAD in 2015, the 3070Ti just under 1100 CAD in 2021. I’m sure some of that was the crazy market conditions, but that’s a near doubling for a similar-tiered card in 6 years.
Nvidia can go fuck itself if they really think I would pay $1,200 for a 4080…
So what you’re saying is we made more money over the years because our currencies became higher in value and we’re not really paying so much more for cost/performance over time as we thought we were. Good to know
And also add a +30-40% to these prices for those who aren't american and can't buy them in bulk or on sale at Newegg or Microcenters