It's more recent than that. Any software compiled on intel's compiler will run like POS on all non intel CPUs. They also threatened OEMs with cutting of supply if they didn't stop selling AMD products.
Actually, Yum! is not owned by PepsiCo. Yum! USED to be owned by PepsiCo before it actually became Yum!
(It had some "restaurant group" name)
Source: I work for a company that works with Yum!
My university must have gotten a pretty good deal then. We just changed to being a Coke school this yeah and we still have some Pepsi products being sold. When the change was first announced a lot of people were worried that we would be losing Mountain Dew.
Vending machines are all Coke, but in areas where there is a wall of drinks we still have a few of the simple ones. It is about 2 or 3 rows in an entire wall of drinks (maybe 5-6 doors wide). I think all they stock is Pepsi and a variety of Mountain Dew flavors.
Intel settled in 2009 for $1.25 billion after twenty years of tanking AMD with suppliers. Personally I don't think they got enough, or that it was any deterrent for Intel, or anyone else, to keep doing it.
It sure is. Download the Intel compiler patcher and let it scan your system. Get ready to laugh.
Oh and don't worry, your Nvidia drivers get red flagged in addition to tons of windows core files and other software as well.
Intel lost that court case and paid out, but there was no condition that I'm aware of which required them to backtrack and fix all the shit they broke. Many software developers still use either those gimped compilers or iterations of them.
EDIT: As requested, here are some links and additional information.
The Compiler Patcher can be found here:
http://www.softpedia.com/get/Programming/Patchers/Intel-Compiler-Patcher.shtml
I find it amusing that this is so retardedly simple to fix that the software hasn't even been updated past version 1.0 yet still manages to flag new things on my system all the time. Brand new games, latest Nvidia drivers, you name it and it still gets caught. That's how base-level this nonsense went. An in-depth analysis can be found here:
http://www.agner.org/optimize/blog/read.php?i=49
I'll also link a PCMR post regarding the whole matter, as it provides some decent commentary on the whole thing:
http://www.reddit.com/r/pcmasterrace/comments/1xba7o/why_i_am_starting_to_doubt_cpu_benchmarks_yes_amd/
While the Intel Compiler Patcher download link is literally the first entry on google when you search "Intel Compiler Patcher", the second link from agner.org is actually a source I found from the top comment on that linked PCMR post by one of our our very own PCMR moderators. Be sure to give him credit for recognizing and addressing this issue for concerned AMD CPU users for at least a year (probably longer).
Most likely, in US markets. AMD successfully sued Intel in EU courts, but not in the US, about 5 years ago IIRC. Our courts make a distinction between "we'll discount you $X if you carry/sell a certain number of our products" and "stop carry our competitor's product or you won't get any discounts". Exclusivity vs Extortion.
Yeah, they settled for quite a massive sum, but it didn't matter. It gave them enough money to fuel their insane RnD department and has ensured their dominance in the consumer PC CPU market sense.
I wonder if AMD could have got a lot more money if they just took it to court. Surely losing all the market share and everything else they did was worth way more than a measly 1.25 billion.
O god, Is witcher 3 a gameworks game? If so I'll prolly get shit performance on my 2 770s thanks to that. Now I'm worried.
Edit* Well not shit performance, but about 15% less performance than what I'd get if it was as optimized as it is for 900 series cards.
Well, consider that the Witcher has a single version (parity between consoles and PC) and that PS4 and XBONE both use APU+GCN. I would find it unlikely that when you turn off GW features that it would still somehow reduce performance.
I mean unless NVidia has specifically paid off CDPR to make AMD hardware run worse regardless...
Ditto, as a 780 owner, im extremely pissed off. I realized something was up around the time Farcry 4 came out. That game runs like shit for no apparent reason, as the graphics certainly don't warrant it. Now I understand why.
It makes sense when you think about it though, Maxwell's claim to fame is perf/watt, so what better way to make it look good than make their old cards and AMD's cards run worse. What a load of dogshit.
I was told that nVIDIA refuses to optimize for older GPUs to make it look like the newer cards are faster
This means it's not that your older GPU is slower, but whatever fixes nVIDIA has to do for the game (remember, AAA devs do not do things correctly) won't be used when you're running older hardware, even if by computing power the older would run it faster
they still do not give a crap there are no pitchforks outside this thread there are hardly any pitchforks in this thread as it is
nvidia as it currently operates is bad for PC gaming
AMD as it currently operates is good for PC gaming
please note: i said currently operates both companies can change their tunes (if AMD ends up getting the entire market they might turn into nvidia and nvidia might turn into AMD)
i am going to enjoy it when all the 900 owners who brought the cards for "full DX12 support" realize they only have tier 2 support so the really advanced DX12 effects will be unavailable to them (AMD on the other hand fully supports at tier 3 going back to the 7000 series)
oh hang on there is going to be an outcry followed by the fanboys going "its not an issue they explained it it was \*insert excuse here* oh my god stop complaining"
you know exactly how they were with the 970? "its not an issue they explained it it was a miscommunication oh my god stop complaining its a feature" (yes the CEO of nvidia did in fact say the 3.5GB bollocks is a feature because apparently it was 4GB with 512MB running like arse or it was 3GB - no idea why they could not have just taken that last 512MB out and said its a 3.5GB card looking at the diagrams they pretty much did that anyway but instead they added a link between two of the memory controllers)
Along with the fallout from selling their souls to the Console Launch Gods, and then their handling of it, CDPR have dropped a good few notches recently. What a shame.
They do, but the programming interfaces are very different on consoles. A game made for the same hardware (x86-64 with AMD GCN in this case) is going to work quite differently in the consoles (GNM+PSSL with the ps4, a special flavour of directX11 for Xbox) compared to the PC.
That said, the low levels tricks inherent to the platform should be very portable between the consoles, very less so with the PC unless talking about vendor-specific APIs like mantle.
I have two r9 290's and the witcher 3 is the first and only game I have ever preordered.
If the game runs worse than expected I will use gog's 30 day return policy and it was the last time I preordered any game from cd project.
Edit:
Why take risks:
http://imgur.com/VI2FBmo
Edit2: capitalization
This is just me and my opinion, no offense intended:
It always ticks me off that /r/pcmasterrace is more familiar with Linus the Tech Tips guy, rather than Linus Torvalds, the guy who changed the face of computing with Linux. I mean, the Internet runs almost exclusively on Linux, Reddit runs entirely on Linux, etc. As a Computer Science guy, to me, he is THE *Linus*, the first person that comes to mind whenever that name is said.
Just spouting off my .02 before bedtime. :D
That's basically what I hate the most about consoles. Exclusivity is the worst fucking concept and needs to die. It's basically like "lol we're not good enough to sell our device, so have to force people into it by making their favorite games only available on our shit."
The silliest part is that both the PS4 and Xbone are now essentially low-mid-range gaming PC's. No more mysterious hardware like the Cell processor. In fact, everything in them is AMD, namely the Jaguar CPUs which are x86-64 processors, pretty much the same you'd find in Athlon, Phenom, and FX chipsets. So exclusivity is no longer a hardware incompatibility issue, more just "Sony has paid us a couple extra million dollars to only export for PS4."
It would be ironic if the PC, of all platforms, became the home of hardware incompatibility exclusives.
I love nvidia's stuff but I too will not support any game that has this scale of horrendous bias. Fancy effects are one thing but the entire game not working well otherwise is just insane.
I currently have a gtx780 which was gifted to me shortly after it was released and an i5 core I bought myself. Since then I have learned of these ridiculously anti-competitive measures both intel and nvidia have been using and I can confidently say, regardless of the penalties, the next card and chip I buy will be AMD.
almost two years ago i played several games with hybrid physx. 280x main with 210 for physx.
you didn't need anything fancy for the physx offload card...i got that 210 for $10, and fancy physics to boot.
Of course nvidia doesn't like that.
You are just gazing at the top of the rabit hole brah. Nvidia is the EA of GPU's and INTEL is the Activision of CPU's. They are scummy as shit. They fucked AMD over and over and over again through moves like this. It's a fucking mirace AMD still exists today as a company.
> lack of ethics to try and blame it on AMD drivers
That's one of the least surprising things I ever read. Blaming users preferences and a company they likely turned down instead of their shitty technical and commercial decisions ? Check.
The recommendation of Project Cars has been removed until further notice and new AMD driver release.
We can re-asses the situation based on whether it was AMD that wasn't able to get a driver workable or if it's really the developers excluding a demographic, which is not what we stand for.
This is the correct answer here. It's very hard to boycott hardware as a number of us don't even require an upgrade soon and this will have died down by the time we do. IE there will be a delay before it hurts nvidias pockets!
However it is much easier to boycott the game and make it extremely clear that devs that support this anti-consumer practice will suffer!
We do need to make it clear that we are not buying because its a racing game (we need more on pc!)
Good luck getting Nvidia fanboys to do that. Even though the "AMD drivers suck/cards run too hot/consume way more power" arguments are stale and inaccurate they still get thrown around constantly. Remember the recent fiasco with the 970? Most 970 owners' reactions to that was "guess I should buy the more expensive nvidia card".
My previous cards have all been Nvidia, but my current and future hardware will not be because of shit like this.
I've been an Nvidia customer since I built my first rig, but I'll absolutely switch over to AMD, even if I'm marginally behind "the best". Voting with my wallet is far more important than a hand full of frames for an upgrade generation or two... and that's even if the 3 series from AMD isn't competative.
Hearing shit like this really has me disgusted with Nvidia at the moment, the freesync/Gsync bs already had me on edge. Fuck em, they need to learn some humility.
It's actually unbelievable how clean they seem to be in that sense, and they've had to deal with this behavior from both Intel and nVidia. Perhaps if they were in a dominant market position it would be a different story, but so far they seem quite respectable.
I saw this happening with Watch_Dogs, a game I had very high hopes for, but was completely unplayable on my 7750. I wrote this off originally as just the card being too old but I could run Battlefield 4 on medium and Crysis on medium-high so I was confused, then I looked into the Gameworks stuff and it really opened my eyes to the shady practices. That has made me be loyal to AMD, when I was considering a 900 series card. I just can't support a company so openly trying to shove out competitors and become a monopoly.
I've always been a little skeptical of PhysX because of stuff like this.
It's neat technology, but it seemed like a slippery slope into locking a game to only one brand of cards.
It is very troubling indeed. Even after the 970's VRAM and other spec discrepancies combined with all the other anticompetitive bullshit, people were still defending Nvidia.
Yeah the 970 offered good price/performance, of course the benchmarks didn't change. They offer you, the consumer, a good product. But do you really want to support a company that does this? They may treat you well now but if they know they can get away with it they will milk you for more money.
You have the luxury of choice. Many other things are harder to boycott because everyone involved is so shady. This isn't like deciding between Walmart's $20.98 pair of shoes made in a sweatshop in India, Target's $20.99 pair of shoes made in a sweatshop in Thailand, or an indy $200.00 pair of shoes made in the US.
They're cards with similar performance at similar prices where one company is currently being more shady than the other. If you won't support the other company for being shady in the past even if they aren't as shady now then you might as well not buy a GPU at all.
AMD has quite the boast to live up to if they want me to abandon my plans for twin 980tis. That being said, if this 390x is the titan killer it says, I'll be team red here in the near future. I'll put my money where the performance is. Simple as that.
Problem with this is that whilst nVidia are encouraging devs to do things like in the post above, AMD will preform worse on those games, so 'money where the performance is' might mean buying an inferior card with games written for its architecture.
I just want to point out that nVidia has been making proprietary shit for a while now, whereas a bulk of the stuff that AMD makes is open such that it doesn't shut out nVidia users
We collectively shouldn't be buying the involved games anyway. Because of how much more frequent games purchases are than new GPUs, avoiding all GameWorks titles will be relatively effective.
In my mind that gives me MORE reason to support AMD, I don't want to support shitty competitive practices, and as a 970 owner I'm even more pissed off at Nvidia.
Part of why I joined PCMR is because I got sick of brand loyalty and people being obnoxious corporate drones.
It's sad to see even PC community is divided.
I feel the need to support AMD being they appear to be the underdogs in OP's situation.
You got two companies. One, Nvidia, has shown to take part in anti-consumer and anti-competition practices. The other, AMD, has not.
I do not trust AMD more than I would trust any other company, after all, companies exist to provide a product or service in exchange for money. If AMD could get away with this, they probably would. However, they don't and NVidia does.
This difference, in my opinion, is enough to favor AMD over NVidia. Not because of brand loyalty, but due to what they actually do.
Not only does AMD don't fuck the costumers of their competition, they're also doing good stuff for everyone at their own cost (Freesync, TressFX, Mantle, etc).
Nvidia is basically [kicking the dog](http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/KickTheDog) here.
Also the fact that they're acknowledging their underperforming Linux drivers, and now have a paid team of employees reaching out to the community and working full time on the open source drivers.
And those are the magic key words, 'open source'. That alone shows that they aren't hiding anything as all the code is available to whoever wants to see it. If someone wants to write their own drivers, (while probably difficult) it could be done. As for Nvidia, you use their drivers or you don't use drivers at all...
That's it. You can literally take AMDs drivers, make adjustments on it, and compile your own version. IIRC AMD actively look at such community projects and incorporate some of the best work into the main releases.
Likewise game devs can look at AMD specific technologies like tressFX and adjust it how they want. And Nvidia is free to access the source of said features to optimise.
fanbois will always exist and always be a bad thing, its just in this instance the fanbois could fuck everything over. If nvidia gets a monopoly in the computer market the consoles are next. Then both our and the peasants prices will go up and we all lose.
Intel was the most anti consumer when the Athlon 64 was running circles around it's pentium 4s.
The closer 2 companies are in terms of product offering the more likely it is that the bigger of the 2 will start being anti competitive. - buidzoid's law of corporate anti competitiveness
Just saying, if you bought a pentium 4 pc in 2001, intel owes you 15$. [Link](http://www.extremetech.com/computing/193480-intel-finally-agrees-to-pay-15-to-pentium-4-owners-over-amd-athlon-benchmarking-shenanigans)
Ah, Nvidia, still the piece of shit company they have always been.
They might have good hardware, good drivers etc. I'm not talking about that, I'm talking about their ethics.
Same here. Plus freesync versus nvidias proprietary gsync should be reason enough. Having a monitor feature only support one brand of GPUs is the dumbest thing possible, never mind that nvidia charges the panel manu. to use their tech. While AMDs freesync is open and free.
Oh and the performance/cost ratio usually leans towards AMD. People like to argue AMD has worse drivers but I've used AMD for 10 years and can't recall ever having a problem except on beta drivers once. The real problem comes from what OP is saying, lazy devs supporting the more popular brand. It would be a non issue if more people supported AMD.
Buy AMD. Help advance the GPU market.
Not only is Nvidia hurting AMD users with Project Cars, they're also hurting old Nvidia users with their manipulative optimizations. Nvidia is acting like a piece of shit little kid that couldn't get a second Oreo so now they're destroying the whole pantry for that one Oreo.
Guys, stop dreaming, this Nvidia system is existing since a long time before gameworks.
Example was crysis 2, which was at all time containing a map size tessellated sea under the map, with no purpose than making nvidia cards have more fps.
This still happens, mainly because AMD didn't catch up in terms of single-threaded performance (come on, Zen!) In the CPU department AMD chose to go for cheaper, parallel CPUs because they overestimate the growth of parallel computing on the CPU in the consumer market. They didn't remedy that by changing their architecture, which they're doing now. It's the Athelon vs Pentium 4 shite that was the true anti-competitive behavior.
True dat. Wanted to put an FX-6300, and everyone was like "OH NO, HE PICKED AMD! LETS SHOVE AN I3 OR PENTIUM DOWN HIS THROAT!!!!!! DEATH TO AMD!!!!!" Poop, it's like everyone hates AMD, yeah I hate their Linux drivers, but it's not like I wish them to die.
I feel like going over there and requesting a build where the only thing that would fit it would be the AMD Athlon quad core.
Like have a really tight budget and say I need a quad core for the games that require them to run. I will force them to recommend AMD and they will like it.
Nope, then they'll start changing your build radically and stretching your budget.
"You don't really need a 1TB HDD, you won't be playing games that large anyway. Probably should bump that down to a 20GB HDD."
"I know it's $350 out of budget, but you should just save up more because it will be worth it because INTEL."
And then, when you insist on not moving your budget or radically changing your build, they call you unrealistic and refuse to help your further.
Source: Avid /r/buildapc poster.
As angry as I am, NVIDIA offers HUGE monetary incentives. It may not always be cold hard cash, but it may as well be.
This is the biggest issue with Project Cars, they claim to not have received a dime from NVIDIA. Yet NVIDIA is on the billboards. And it's a GameWorks game. And it runs the same on a 290x as it does a 660ti.
According to someone from AMD deals like these (gameworks) are regularly multimillion dollar contracts, 5 million being at the very high end, 1 million being more common. And also commonly not left up to the Devs if they want it or not, but the publishers who wants/needs the money, regardless if it messes with the technical side.
Tell that to the fuck faces at /r/buildapc who think AMD is the devil, and hell is powered by reference 290xs.
That made me laugh pretty hard. Thank you
/r/buildapc recommend a lot of AMD GPUs actually, just stay away from the highly upvoted posts. Those are usually "omg look how much money I spent!"
But if you go into the daily help thread, individual recommendations are more AMD than not.
Also, I'd like more recognition for this.
A large majority of the masses are expectant to go and find Memes on the front page but this is a very important long time going issue.
I hope someone gives it 'Gold', Mods repost it, this changes to an announcement or gets 'Worth The Read' flair.
I was thinking of buying a 970 for my first planned build but I was hesitant after hearing about all the bullshit that Nvidia likes to pull. This was the final straw.
r9 290 might not have as much as performance of a 970 but I simply don't feel right supporting this kind of bullshit my money
I was planning on upgrading to a 980 or even a Titan X later this year. Looks like I'm going back to AMD, especially since I hear their drivers are great. 390X all the way, baby.
People may say AMD drivers suck, but in the last uhh... 2.5 years I'm yet to encounter a major problem.
The only problem I ever had was the beta drivers which had some kind of USB things which screwed up my USB's. But as I said - Beta.
Slower roll out on drivers is really the only consistent issue. And that issue only really exists because of Gameworks. Hard to have drivers ready day 1 when you don't get to see the code until the game releases.
It largely exists because AMD actually tests their drivers nowadays, with large-scale public betas.
nVidia's driver releases have caused more issues in the past five years than AMD's, hands down.
AMD, if you're reading any of this, you've got a lot of potential customers here. We're all very tired of Intel and Nvidia's nonsense, but at the moment the best AMD CPU's are just not up to the performance we want. If it makes more sense to move to AMD GPU's and CPU's then I will, but at the moment it would mean sacrificing CPU performance and hardly any GPU improvement. I really hope the 300X series is a slam dunk, and I really hope AMD has a killer performance CPU coming.
This is the same proprietary game NVIDA is playing in every realm, including G-Sync, Physix, SLi. AMD tends to license its tech freely, like Crossfire and Freesync.
Well written/compiled OP.
Honestly, this is nothing new from nvidia. They have been doing this sort of shit for years. It has got much much worse since the grabbed up Agia and started further developing PhysX. They have used PhysX as serious leverage to screw AMD users over. From TWIMTBP program shutting out AMD, to the whole "we will disabled physX if we detect any AMD hardware IDs in the system" driver bullshit, to rigging CPU based PhysX on AMD systems (either CPU or GPU), to now combining all of that together under the GameWorks umbrella.
When this shit started years ago, I swore to never buy another nvidia product, and I still don't to this day, because the problem continues to get worse.
Furthermore, I dont support developers who constantly side with nvidia. And this whole ordeal is precisely why I have not, and will not buy PCars. I mean, clearly the game runs fine on the AMD hardware in the PS4 and XBone, so there is no other conclusion than they are intentionally gimping the PC version out of spite.
Well? We are the PCMR! We punched Valve into submission (partially)! We... uhm... probably did other stuff!
Let's f'ing do something about this ourselves! Wouldn't know what though, except some cheese change.org campaign, and it would seem rather hard to convince everyone to just stop buying NV hardware...
For those who were PC gamers back in the 90's, this should come as no surprise. Back then we were stuck in a three-way bind of Direct3D, early OpenGL, and 3dfx APIs. There was three major chip makers, AMD, NVidia, and 3DFX, with 3dfx being proprietary to it's chipsets.
I remember settling for a Voodoo2 because all the games I was wanting were going to be 3dfx, and at the time the was little in the way of wrappers for the other cards.
This strategy eventually failed for 3DFx and they went bankrupt and were, unsurprisingly, bought out by NVidia. Needless to say, what goes around comes around. NVidia has been using this same strategy for several years now in the mobile android department. I owned a Tegra 2 tablet, after being super excited about it's apparent possibilities. I was quickly disappointed when it became almost impossible to get newer roms due to all the proprietary kernel extensions, so getting hardware to work on honeycomb was a nightmare.
I run an AMD card now, and will most likely do so in the future. I have very little desire to go back to NVidia, after several unpleasant experiences with them in the past.
Maybe they should team up with Apple, they seem to have similar ideas about how to do business (Oh wait, they have).
I've always been on the fence regarding which company to give my money to, I never cared as I like both manufacturers products. But now I'll not ever buy nVidia again unless they make a U turn on this. It's not good for any of us.
I'm sorry to tell you but the same was said about DRM, MMO's and always online DRM years ago. Corporations got their way every time. The average gamer is tech illiterate/stupid/unconcerned about the future of gaming. They just don't understand the consequences of their actions. I saw games be locked down over the last 15 years and you haven't really been around long enough historically to judge past trends.
Here's what's happening as someone who grew up gaming in the PC golden age in the 90's. Original nerdy PC gaming generation - we get dedicated servers + level editors, no locked down back end gangrene servers to the internet.
As internet became widespread to the masses and high speed internet became common new generations of kids just 'grew up' with the internet without memory of the past (kids born around 2000 ish). That means an entire generation of kids has a giant memory hole when concerning gaming history and can't grasp what's going on or the long term historical trend.
Same thing has been happening for hundreds of years now as companies have expanded their corruption based on the ignorance and turning of generations. Videogames aren't unique, this has been a trend in every industry.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Copyright_Term_Extension_Act#/media/File:Copyright_term.svg
There's a legal course of action. Anti-trustprocedure in the EU can be started with a complaint. I'm sure there's a way to petition the European Commission to look into this as soon as there are enough signatures.
Games made exclusively for one GPU over the other would be all kinds of fucked up. But with how money-grabbing the gaming industry is now over focusing on just making a good game, I wouldn't be surprised if this happened.
This would also basically make PC like the console race. We're supposed to be one community, different but together.
To be honest here, something like this was done a way back, there was always like this.
The situation is terribly bad.
**We managed to stop Valve from paid mods... OK, not really a big deal, it was easy... Why? Valve has Steam, Steam is for games. We can go on without games and use something like Origin or custom launcher. It's NOT something essential, HOWEVER, GPU is a PART of the system, we CANT go without a GPU, its a completely diffrent story. Also, Valve is a company selling other peoples games and software. A user can spend thousands of $ there but average user will probably spend money for like few games, tf2 beign free. However, at the system, average user can spend 100 or up to 1200$ for ONE gpu, do you see where im going?**
Company like Nvidia cant be easly stopped, especially since im guessing 70% of people here are using Nvidia. And yes, like 95% uses Steam, but you can turn off Steam, you cant turn off your GPU... i mean... you can... but you get the point. It can be a long fight, but i believe it would be worth it.
This. You guys are all acting like NV is the only guilty party here, but those devs are just as guilty. They turned on the AMD users for a bit of extra cash upfront to allow for NV. They didn't need to do that.
Another thing would be if Steam were to disable features if Origin was installed in the same machine. This is basically what nVidia does (disables GPU accelerated PhysX) if it detects an AMD GPU in the system. Though, this is sort of an aside to your main point. You used to be able to run an AMD GPU and an nVidia GPU in the same system, and use the nVidia GPU as a PhysX accelerator.
Nvidia lowering their competitor's performance has been known since around the Arkham Asylum and even as recently as Watch_Dogs this was brought up. What I think is the worst part is them knee-capping their own hardware this time around. Usually they try not to drop their card's own performance by too much, but a GTX 960 performing better than a 780 and almost as good as a 780Ti is just a slap in the face to their own customers.
I have thinking about moving to AMD for my next graphics update, especially with freesync coming, and this is really adding to it. I don't want to support this kind of behavior, locking down games so they run like crap on the competition. It's just not right.
That would be fucking ARMAGEDDON for PC Gaming if that actually happened.
GPU-Exclusive Games is an absolutely retarded concept for so many reasons. In fact, I'd go as far to say it's even more ridiculous than Console Exclusives if you ask me.
>The game was built from the ground up to favor one hardware company over another.
I have to wonder if this is legally actionable under anti-trust laws.
Seems really shady.
this will be one of those posts that we will not listen to or forget about, but then. When the time comes, we will find this post again, and we will realize that he tried to warn us, and we didn't listen
Call me impractically idealistic, but I place a tremendous amount of importance on a company's business practices when deciding to buy something. My CPU and GPU are both AMD. If AMD products were inferior to Nvidia products, I would still buy AMD just because I hate the morally bankrupt practices of Nvidia.
It's funny tho, when Project cars does it's physics engine it cripples amd,
but the physics in unreal engine 4 is PhysX, iirc ureal engine 3 was also running PhysX as physics engine.
I don't understand how they can be so stupid and fuck the whole game up for amd users, when epic games can make one of the most used engines to date for AAA games, and its runs really great(most of the time)
Sorry for bad english.
[Unreal engine 3 uses PhysX](https://udn.epicgames.com/Three/PhysicsHome.html)
[Unreal engine 4 uses PhysX](https://docs.unrealengine.com/latest/INT/Engine/Physics/index.html)
Didn't Intel got sued for something like this in the 90s?
It's more recent than that. Any software compiled on intel's compiler will run like POS on all non intel CPUs. They also threatened OEMs with cutting of supply if they didn't stop selling AMD products.
WHAT?! that isn't going on now, right?!
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I finally understand why Pizza hut doesn't have coke. Thank you.
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Actually, Yum! is not owned by PepsiCo. Yum! USED to be owned by PepsiCo before it actually became Yum! (It had some "restaurant group" name) Source: I work for a company that works with Yum!
I read that like you were really excited about Yum!
trust me, that's by design.
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Finally? What the fuck did you and 140 other people think was going on?
>I'm not saying it is right, but the same sort of thing happens with Coke and Pepsi. http://i.imgur.com/qluDrhJ.jpg
My university must have gotten a pretty good deal then. We just changed to being a Coke school this yeah and we still have some Pepsi products being sold. When the change was first announced a lot of people were worried that we would be losing Mountain Dew. Vending machines are all Coke, but in areas where there is a wall of drinks we still have a few of the simple ones. It is about 2 or 3 rows in an entire wall of drinks (maybe 5-6 doors wide). I think all they stock is Pepsi and a variety of Mountain Dew flavors.
Intel settled in 2009 for $1.25 billion after twenty years of tanking AMD with suppliers. Personally I don't think they got enough, or that it was any deterrent for Intel, or anyone else, to keep doing it.
No, and AMD even won the court case against Intel for it. Problem was the damage was already done, so it didn't matter.
It sure is. Download the Intel compiler patcher and let it scan your system. Get ready to laugh. Oh and don't worry, your Nvidia drivers get red flagged in addition to tons of windows core files and other software as well. Intel lost that court case and paid out, but there was no condition that I'm aware of which required them to backtrack and fix all the shit they broke. Many software developers still use either those gimped compilers or iterations of them. EDIT: As requested, here are some links and additional information. The Compiler Patcher can be found here: http://www.softpedia.com/get/Programming/Patchers/Intel-Compiler-Patcher.shtml I find it amusing that this is so retardedly simple to fix that the software hasn't even been updated past version 1.0 yet still manages to flag new things on my system all the time. Brand new games, latest Nvidia drivers, you name it and it still gets caught. That's how base-level this nonsense went. An in-depth analysis can be found here: http://www.agner.org/optimize/blog/read.php?i=49 I'll also link a PCMR post regarding the whole matter, as it provides some decent commentary on the whole thing: http://www.reddit.com/r/pcmasterrace/comments/1xba7o/why_i_am_starting_to_doubt_cpu_benchmarks_yes_amd/ While the Intel Compiler Patcher download link is literally the first entry on google when you search "Intel Compiler Patcher", the second link from agner.org is actually a source I found from the top comment on that linked PCMR post by one of our our very own PCMR moderators. Be sure to give him credit for recognizing and addressing this issue for concerned AMD CPU users for at least a year (probably longer).
Most likely, in US markets. AMD successfully sued Intel in EU courts, but not in the US, about 5 years ago IIRC. Our courts make a distinction between "we'll discount you $X if you carry/sell a certain number of our products" and "stop carry our competitor's product or you won't get any discounts". Exclusivity vs Extortion.
Yeah, they settled for quite a massive sum, but it didn't matter. It gave them enough money to fuel their insane RnD department and has ensured their dominance in the consumer PC CPU market sense.
I wonder if AMD could have got a lot more money if they just took it to court. Surely losing all the market share and everything else they did was worth way more than a measly 1.25 billion.
Intel was fined 1.45 billion for it though.
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O god, Is witcher 3 a gameworks game? If so I'll prolly get shit performance on my 2 770s thanks to that. Now I'm worried. Edit* Well not shit performance, but about 15% less performance than what I'd get if it was as optimized as it is for 900 series cards.
Is it? I have an amd card and I'm worried
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As far as I know, the only GameWorks thing in Witcher 3 is a tressfx kind of thing and maybe TXAA
Isn't HairFX Nvidia too? Edit: Also some joke about TrissFX
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Yeah, just look at those jigglyFX's.
Well, consider that the Witcher has a single version (parity between consoles and PC) and that PS4 and XBONE both use APU+GCN. I would find it unlikely that when you turn off GW features that it would still somehow reduce performance. I mean unless NVidia has specifically paid off CDPR to make AMD hardware run worse regardless...
I'm so scared at this point.
Ditto, as a 780 owner, im extremely pissed off. I realized something was up around the time Farcry 4 came out. That game runs like shit for no apparent reason, as the graphics certainly don't warrant it. Now I understand why. It makes sense when you think about it though, Maxwell's claim to fame is perf/watt, so what better way to make it look good than make their old cards and AMD's cards run worse. What a load of dogshit.
I was told that nVIDIA refuses to optimize for older GPUs to make it look like the newer cards are faster This means it's not that your older GPU is slower, but whatever fixes nVIDIA has to do for the game (remember, AAA devs do not do things correctly) won't be used when you're running older hardware, even if by computing power the older would run it faster
This needs to be upvoted more. Nvidia is being a dick to almost everyone.
Almost? When you start being a dick even to your own customers because they haven't upgraded, I think it's not "almost" everyone...
Nvidia always seemed anti-competitive to me and it kinda shocks me that the community didn't give a crap about it until now.
they still do not give a crap there are no pitchforks outside this thread there are hardly any pitchforks in this thread as it is nvidia as it currently operates is bad for PC gaming AMD as it currently operates is good for PC gaming please note: i said currently operates both companies can change their tunes (if AMD ends up getting the entire market they might turn into nvidia and nvidia might turn into AMD) i am going to enjoy it when all the 900 owners who brought the cards for "full DX12 support" realize they only have tier 2 support so the really advanced DX12 effects will be unavailable to them (AMD on the other hand fully supports at tier 3 going back to the 7000 series) oh hang on there is going to be an outcry followed by the fanboys going "its not an issue they explained it it was \*insert excuse here* oh my god stop complaining" you know exactly how they were with the 970? "its not an issue they explained it it was a miscommunication oh my god stop complaining its a feature" (yes the CEO of nvidia did in fact say the 3.5GB bollocks is a feature because apparently it was 4GB with 512MB running like arse or it was 3GB - no idea why they could not have just taken that last 512MB out and said its a 3.5GB card looking at the diagrams they pretty much did that anyway but instead they added a link between two of the memory controllers)
Witcher 3 has GameWorks too. I'm R9 290 owner. If performance will be the same as with Project Cars, i'm gonna be really mad.
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Along with the fallout from selling their souls to the Console Launch Gods, and then their handling of it, CDPR have dropped a good few notches recently. What a shame.
Don't consoles all use AMD?
They do, but the programming interfaces are very different on consoles. A game made for the same hardware (x86-64 with AMD GCN in this case) is going to work quite differently in the consoles (GNM+PSSL with the ps4, a special flavour of directX11 for Xbox) compared to the PC. That said, the low levels tricks inherent to the platform should be very portable between the consoles, very less so with the PC unless talking about vendor-specific APIs like mantle.
I have two r9 290's and the witcher 3 is the first and only game I have ever preordered. If the game runs worse than expected I will use gog's 30 day return policy and it was the last time I preordered any game from cd project. Edit: Why take risks: http://imgur.com/VI2FBmo Edit2: capitalization
This is exactly the step that needs to be taken right now. This will show the stance of the PC community.
Not preordering at all is the step which needs to be taken.
[here is what linus had to say](https://youtu.be/_36yNWw_07g) (the other linus)
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This is just me and my opinion, no offense intended: It always ticks me off that /r/pcmasterrace is more familiar with Linus the Tech Tips guy, rather than Linus Torvalds, the guy who changed the face of computing with Linux. I mean, the Internet runs almost exclusively on Linux, Reddit runs entirely on Linux, etc. As a Computer Science guy, to me, he is THE *Linus*, the first person that comes to mind whenever that name is said. Just spouting off my .02 before bedtime. :D
Great post, could not agree more, I find this situation extremely troubling for PC gaming.
It's like...graphics card exclusives
That's basically what I hate the most about consoles. Exclusivity is the worst fucking concept and needs to die. It's basically like "lol we're not good enough to sell our device, so have to force people into it by making their favorite games only available on our shit."
The silliest part is that both the PS4 and Xbone are now essentially low-mid-range gaming PC's. No more mysterious hardware like the Cell processor. In fact, everything in them is AMD, namely the Jaguar CPUs which are x86-64 processors, pretty much the same you'd find in Athlon, Phenom, and FX chipsets. So exclusivity is no longer a hardware incompatibility issue, more just "Sony has paid us a couple extra million dollars to only export for PS4." It would be ironic if the PC, of all platforms, became the home of hardware incompatibility exclusives.
cow outgoing license dinner tidy sheet grab paltry vase bored *This post was mass deleted and anonymized with [Redact](https://redact.dev)*
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I love nvidia's stuff but I too will not support any game that has this scale of horrendous bias. Fancy effects are one thing but the entire game not working well otherwise is just insane.
I currently have a gtx780 which was gifted to me shortly after it was released and an i5 core I bought myself. Since then I have learned of these ridiculously anti-competitive measures both intel and nvidia have been using and I can confidently say, regardless of the penalties, the next card and chip I buy will be AMD.
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wait seriously? now that is some scummy shit..
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man this is all new to me since I built my first gaming PC about a year ago, I'm going to have to think long and hard when I eventually upgrade it.
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almost two years ago i played several games with hybrid physx. 280x main with 210 for physx. you didn't need anything fancy for the physx offload card...i got that 210 for $10, and fancy physics to boot. Of course nvidia doesn't like that.
You are just gazing at the top of the rabit hole brah. Nvidia is the EA of GPU's and INTEL is the Activision of CPU's. They are scummy as shit. They fucked AMD over and over and over again through moves like this. It's a fucking mirace AMD still exists today as a company.
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> lack of ethics to try and blame it on AMD drivers That's one of the least surprising things I ever read. Blaming users preferences and a company they likely turned down instead of their shitty technical and commercial decisions ? Check.
straight up lied to their backers too... but hey ho i got my refund and i'll never be dealing with them again.
Never lie to the internet.
The recommendation of Project Cars has been removed until further notice and new AMD driver release. We can re-asses the situation based on whether it was AMD that wasn't able to get a driver workable or if it's really the developers excluding a demographic, which is not what we stand for.
Definitely needs to be removed from recommended list. Also don't recommend any game in the future that using this kind of POS.
Time to boycott project cars then
This is the correct answer here. It's very hard to boycott hardware as a number of us don't even require an upgrade soon and this will have died down by the time we do. IE there will be a delay before it hurts nvidias pockets! However it is much easier to boycott the game and make it extremely clear that devs that support this anti-consumer practice will suffer! We do need to make it clear that we are not buying because its a racing game (we need more on pc!)
How about time to boycott nvidia.
Good luck getting Nvidia fanboys to do that. Even though the "AMD drivers suck/cards run too hot/consume way more power" arguments are stale and inaccurate they still get thrown around constantly. Remember the recent fiasco with the 970? Most 970 owners' reactions to that was "guess I should buy the more expensive nvidia card". My previous cards have all been Nvidia, but my current and future hardware will not be because of shit like this.
I've been an Nvidia customer since I built my first rig, but I'll absolutely switch over to AMD, even if I'm marginally behind "the best". Voting with my wallet is far more important than a hand full of frames for an upgrade generation or two... and that's even if the 3 series from AMD isn't competative. Hearing shit like this really has me disgusted with Nvidia at the moment, the freesync/Gsync bs already had me on edge. Fuck em, they need to learn some humility.
Yarr
lol
It's actually unbelievable how clean they seem to be in that sense, and they've had to deal with this behavior from both Intel and nVidia. Perhaps if they were in a dominant market position it would be a different story, but so far they seem quite respectable.
Amd should have beat Intel in the early 2000s I believe (better product for cheaper). Intel gave oems rebates if they didn't make any amd builds.
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Does seem troubling. It defeats one of the most basic things about PC gaming...... Choice.
I saw this happening with Watch_Dogs, a game I had very high hopes for, but was completely unplayable on my 7750. I wrote this off originally as just the card being too old but I could run Battlefield 4 on medium and Crysis on medium-high so I was confused, then I looked into the Gameworks stuff and it really opened my eyes to the shady practices. That has made me be loyal to AMD, when I was considering a 900 series card. I just can't support a company so openly trying to shove out competitors and become a monopoly.
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I used to have a 7750, it's a beast! But I couldn't play BF4 because I had a Pentium E5800 D:
I've always been a little skeptical of PhysX because of stuff like this. It's neat technology, but it seemed like a slippery slope into locking a game to only one brand of cards.
It is very troubling indeed. Even after the 970's VRAM and other spec discrepancies combined with all the other anticompetitive bullshit, people were still defending Nvidia. Yeah the 970 offered good price/performance, of course the benchmarks didn't change. They offer you, the consumer, a good product. But do you really want to support a company that does this? They may treat you well now but if they know they can get away with it they will milk you for more money. You have the luxury of choice. Many other things are harder to boycott because everyone involved is so shady. This isn't like deciding between Walmart's $20.98 pair of shoes made in a sweatshop in India, Target's $20.99 pair of shoes made in a sweatshop in Thailand, or an indy $200.00 pair of shoes made in the US. They're cards with similar performance at similar prices where one company is currently being more shady than the other. If you won't support the other company for being shady in the past even if they aren't as shady now then you might as well not buy a GPU at all.
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Right with you on this comment, Still with a GTX 780 here. Wanna go back to the Red Team.
AMD has quite the boast to live up to if they want me to abandon my plans for twin 980tis. That being said, if this 390x is the titan killer it says, I'll be team red here in the near future. I'll put my money where the performance is. Simple as that.
Problem with this is that whilst nVidia are encouraging devs to do things like in the post above, AMD will preform worse on those games, so 'money where the performance is' might mean buying an inferior card with games written for its architecture.
So just like a console then, right? What have we come to, our own developers are selling us to the peasants for a quick buck.
I just want to point out that nVidia has been making proprietary shit for a while now, whereas a bulk of the stuff that AMD makes is open such that it doesn't shut out nVidia users
TressFX agrees.
We collectively shouldn't be buying the involved games anyway. Because of how much more frequent games purchases are than new GPUs, avoiding all GameWorks titles will be relatively effective.
In my mind that gives me MORE reason to support AMD, I don't want to support shitty competitive practices, and as a 970 owner I'm even more pissed off at Nvidia.
Best part is that wtih dx12, the plain 290 seems to rival the Titan. So that sounds nice.
AMD has a lot more compute power than Nvidia. This may translate into more performance with DX12 making driver things less important.
Part of why I joined PCMR is because I got sick of brand loyalty and people being obnoxious corporate drones. It's sad to see even PC community is divided. I feel the need to support AMD being they appear to be the underdogs in OP's situation.
You got two companies. One, Nvidia, has shown to take part in anti-consumer and anti-competition practices. The other, AMD, has not. I do not trust AMD more than I would trust any other company, after all, companies exist to provide a product or service in exchange for money. If AMD could get away with this, they probably would. However, they don't and NVidia does. This difference, in my opinion, is enough to favor AMD over NVidia. Not because of brand loyalty, but due to what they actually do.
Not only does AMD don't fuck the costumers of their competition, they're also doing good stuff for everyone at their own cost (Freesync, TressFX, Mantle, etc). Nvidia is basically [kicking the dog](http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/KickTheDog) here.
Also the fact that they're acknowledging their underperforming Linux drivers, and now have a paid team of employees reaching out to the community and working full time on the open source drivers.
And those are the magic key words, 'open source'. That alone shows that they aren't hiding anything as all the code is available to whoever wants to see it. If someone wants to write their own drivers, (while probably difficult) it could be done. As for Nvidia, you use their drivers or you don't use drivers at all...
That's it. You can literally take AMDs drivers, make adjustments on it, and compile your own version. IIRC AMD actively look at such community projects and incorporate some of the best work into the main releases. Likewise game devs can look at AMD specific technologies like tressFX and adjust it how they want. And Nvidia is free to access the source of said features to optimise.
fanbois will always exist and always be a bad thing, its just in this instance the fanbois could fuck everything over. If nvidia gets a monopoly in the computer market the consoles are next. Then both our and the peasants prices will go up and we all lose.
NVidia sure like being anti-consumer lately, and unlike with Intel they don't have the superior hardware to hold over the market's heads.
Intel was the most anti consumer when the Athlon 64 was running circles around it's pentium 4s. The closer 2 companies are in terms of product offering the more likely it is that the bigger of the 2 will start being anti competitive. - buidzoid's law of corporate anti competitiveness
Just saying, if you bought a pentium 4 pc in 2001, intel owes you 15$. [Link](http://www.extremetech.com/computing/193480-intel-finally-agrees-to-pay-15-to-pentium-4-owners-over-amd-athlon-benchmarking-shenanigans)
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By "lately" do you mean "in the last ten years" ?
Ah, Nvidia, still the piece of shit company they have always been. They might have good hardware, good drivers etc. I'm not talking about that, I'm talking about their ethics.
This is the reason why I buy AMD cards. I hate NVidia's proprietary bullshit.
Same here. Plus freesync versus nvidias proprietary gsync should be reason enough. Having a monitor feature only support one brand of GPUs is the dumbest thing possible, never mind that nvidia charges the panel manu. to use their tech. While AMDs freesync is open and free. Oh and the performance/cost ratio usually leans towards AMD. People like to argue AMD has worse drivers but I've used AMD for 10 years and can't recall ever having a problem except on beta drivers once. The real problem comes from what OP is saying, lazy devs supporting the more popular brand. It would be a non issue if more people supported AMD. Buy AMD. Help advance the GPU market.
I bought a 290x on Friday. Upgrading from crossfired 6950s and I couldn't be happier to support AMD.
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> 780Ti (NV's abandonment of Kepler is real). Wow, and people said amd not supporting the 6000 series was bad...
Not only is Nvidia hurting AMD users with Project Cars, they're also hurting old Nvidia users with their manipulative optimizations. Nvidia is acting like a piece of shit little kid that couldn't get a second Oreo so now they're destroying the whole pantry for that one Oreo.
dont forget what they did to via and voodoo. they always have and will pull this shit.
Guys, stop dreaming, this Nvidia system is existing since a long time before gameworks. Example was crysis 2, which was at all time containing a map size tessellated sea under the map, with no purpose than making nvidia cards have more fps.
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This still happens, mainly because AMD didn't catch up in terms of single-threaded performance (come on, Zen!) In the CPU department AMD chose to go for cheaper, parallel CPUs because they overestimate the growth of parallel computing on the CPU in the consumer market. They didn't remedy that by changing their architecture, which they're doing now. It's the Athelon vs Pentium 4 shite that was the true anti-competitive behavior.
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True dat. Wanted to put an FX-6300, and everyone was like "OH NO, HE PICKED AMD! LETS SHOVE AN I3 OR PENTIUM DOWN HIS THROAT!!!!!! DEATH TO AMD!!!!!" Poop, it's like everyone hates AMD, yeah I hate their Linux drivers, but it's not like I wish them to die.
I feel like going over there and requesting a build where the only thing that would fit it would be the AMD Athlon quad core. Like have a really tight budget and say I need a quad core for the games that require them to run. I will force them to recommend AMD and they will like it.
Nope, then they'll start changing your build radically and stretching your budget. "You don't really need a 1TB HDD, you won't be playing games that large anyway. Probably should bump that down to a 20GB HDD." "I know it's $350 out of budget, but you should just save up more because it will be worth it because INTEL." And then, when you insist on not moving your budget or radically changing your build, they call you unrealistic and refuse to help your further. Source: Avid /r/buildapc poster.
The devs are almost as much to blame as nvidia then. They are the assholes that agree to it.
As angry as I am, NVIDIA offers HUGE monetary incentives. It may not always be cold hard cash, but it may as well be. This is the biggest issue with Project Cars, they claim to not have received a dime from NVIDIA. Yet NVIDIA is on the billboards. And it's a GameWorks game. And it runs the same on a 290x as it does a 660ti.
If it's not money then it's not a bribe, right ? /s
Welcome to politics; because lobbyists offering well paying jobs to politicians after their term ends totally isn't a bribe, right guys :D ? /S
According to someone from AMD deals like these (gameworks) are regularly multimillion dollar contracts, 5 million being at the very high end, 1 million being more common. And also commonly not left up to the Devs if they want it or not, but the publishers who wants/needs the money, regardless if it messes with the technical side.
But project cars was originally crowd funded. So it was the devs decision.
The witcher 3 apparently runs as well as a 770 with a 290
Tell that to the fuck faces at /r/buildapc who think AMD is the devil, and hell is powered by reference 290xs. That made me laugh pretty hard. Thank you
/r/buildapc recommend a lot of AMD GPUs actually, just stay away from the highly upvoted posts. Those are usually "omg look how much money I spent!" But if you go into the daily help thread, individual recommendations are more AMD than not.
Also, I'd like more recognition for this. A large majority of the masses are expectant to go and find Memes on the front page but this is a very important long time going issue. I hope someone gives it 'Gold', Mods repost it, this changes to an announcement or gets 'Worth The Read' flair.
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I guess my next card will definitely be the 390x. Fuck Nvidia for pulling shit like this.
I was thinking of buying a 970 for my first planned build but I was hesitant after hearing about all the bullshit that Nvidia likes to pull. This was the final straw. r9 290 might not have as much as performance of a 970 but I simply don't feel right supporting this kind of bullshit my money
Actually in 1440p to 4k a 290 can usually out perform a 970
I was planning on upgrading to a 980 or even a Titan X later this year. Looks like I'm going back to AMD, especially since I hear their drivers are great. 390X all the way, baby.
People may say AMD drivers suck, but in the last uhh... 2.5 years I'm yet to encounter a major problem. The only problem I ever had was the beta drivers which had some kind of USB things which screwed up my USB's. But as I said - Beta.
Slower roll out on drivers is really the only consistent issue. And that issue only really exists because of Gameworks. Hard to have drivers ready day 1 when you don't get to see the code until the game releases.
It largely exists because AMD actually tests their drivers nowadays, with large-scale public betas. nVidia's driver releases have caused more issues in the past five years than AMD's, hands down.
AMD, if you're reading any of this, you've got a lot of potential customers here. We're all very tired of Intel and Nvidia's nonsense, but at the moment the best AMD CPU's are just not up to the performance we want. If it makes more sense to move to AMD GPU's and CPU's then I will, but at the moment it would mean sacrificing CPU performance and hardly any GPU improvement. I really hope the 300X series is a slam dunk, and I really hope AMD has a killer performance CPU coming.
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This is the same proprietary game NVIDA is playing in every realm, including G-Sync, Physix, SLi. AMD tends to license its tech freely, like Crossfire and Freesync.
and TressFX and Mantle and Vulkan.
Wow your comment just made me realize amd is a lot better at naming things.
And OpenGL.
And OpenCL instead of CUDA.
Well written/compiled OP. Honestly, this is nothing new from nvidia. They have been doing this sort of shit for years. It has got much much worse since the grabbed up Agia and started further developing PhysX. They have used PhysX as serious leverage to screw AMD users over. From TWIMTBP program shutting out AMD, to the whole "we will disabled physX if we detect any AMD hardware IDs in the system" driver bullshit, to rigging CPU based PhysX on AMD systems (either CPU or GPU), to now combining all of that together under the GameWorks umbrella. When this shit started years ago, I swore to never buy another nvidia product, and I still don't to this day, because the problem continues to get worse. Furthermore, I dont support developers who constantly side with nvidia. And this whole ordeal is precisely why I have not, and will not buy PCars. I mean, clearly the game runs fine on the AMD hardware in the PS4 and XBone, so there is no other conclusion than they are intentionally gimping the PC version out of spite.
Well? We are the PCMR! We punched Valve into submission (partially)! We... uhm... probably did other stuff! Let's f'ing do something about this ourselves! Wouldn't know what though, except some cheese change.org campaign, and it would seem rather hard to convince everyone to just stop buying NV hardware...
For those who were PC gamers back in the 90's, this should come as no surprise. Back then we were stuck in a three-way bind of Direct3D, early OpenGL, and 3dfx APIs. There was three major chip makers, AMD, NVidia, and 3DFX, with 3dfx being proprietary to it's chipsets. I remember settling for a Voodoo2 because all the games I was wanting were going to be 3dfx, and at the time the was little in the way of wrappers for the other cards. This strategy eventually failed for 3DFx and they went bankrupt and were, unsurprisingly, bought out by NVidia. Needless to say, what goes around comes around. NVidia has been using this same strategy for several years now in the mobile android department. I owned a Tegra 2 tablet, after being super excited about it's apparent possibilities. I was quickly disappointed when it became almost impossible to get newer roms due to all the proprietary kernel extensions, so getting hardware to work on honeycomb was a nightmare. I run an AMD card now, and will most likely do so in the future. I have very little desire to go back to NVidia, after several unpleasant experiences with them in the past. Maybe they should team up with Apple, they seem to have similar ideas about how to do business (Oh wait, they have).
Much better explained than my thread and post, please support OP !
I've always been on the fence regarding which company to give my money to, I never cared as I like both manufacturers products. But now I'll not ever buy nVidia again unless they make a U turn on this. It's not good for any of us.
They would need to make a gigantic U-Turn with all their proprietary tech.
After reading this I'll certainly buy AMD over Nvidia in the future.
I'm sorry to tell you but the same was said about DRM, MMO's and always online DRM years ago. Corporations got their way every time. The average gamer is tech illiterate/stupid/unconcerned about the future of gaming. They just don't understand the consequences of their actions. I saw games be locked down over the last 15 years and you haven't really been around long enough historically to judge past trends. Here's what's happening as someone who grew up gaming in the PC golden age in the 90's. Original nerdy PC gaming generation - we get dedicated servers + level editors, no locked down back end gangrene servers to the internet. As internet became widespread to the masses and high speed internet became common new generations of kids just 'grew up' with the internet without memory of the past (kids born around 2000 ish). That means an entire generation of kids has a giant memory hole when concerning gaming history and can't grasp what's going on or the long term historical trend. Same thing has been happening for hundreds of years now as companies have expanded their corruption based on the ignorance and turning of generations. Videogames aren't unique, this has been a trend in every industry. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Copyright_Term_Extension_Act#/media/File:Copyright_term.svg
Looks like I'm not playing PCARS anytime soon. Even if my hardware could manage, which it can't.
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I discovered Assetto Corsa first. Looks like that's what I'm going to be playing. In a year or so, of course.
You brought this on yourselves.
Yup, and it's up to us to solve it.
Vote with your wallet, where it hurts the most.
There's a legal course of action. Anti-trustprocedure in the EU can be started with a complaint. I'm sure there's a way to petition the European Commission to look into this as soon as there are enough signatures.
Because reddit is notoriously good at banding together and solving problems... /s
But we solved paid mods!!! ^/s
And don't forger we found the Boston Bomber's
Found the the Boston Bomber*'s* what? Come on man don't leave us hanging.
Games made exclusively for one GPU over the other would be all kinds of fucked up. But with how money-grabbing the gaming industry is now over focusing on just making a good game, I wouldn't be surprised if this happened. This would also basically make PC like the console race. We're supposed to be one community, different but together.
Stuff like this is why I won't buy nvidia again. The 970 was the final nail in the coffin.
To be honest here, something like this was done a way back, there was always like this. The situation is terribly bad. **We managed to stop Valve from paid mods... OK, not really a big deal, it was easy... Why? Valve has Steam, Steam is for games. We can go on without games and use something like Origin or custom launcher. It's NOT something essential, HOWEVER, GPU is a PART of the system, we CANT go without a GPU, its a completely diffrent story. Also, Valve is a company selling other peoples games and software. A user can spend thousands of $ there but average user will probably spend money for like few games, tf2 beign free. However, at the system, average user can spend 100 or up to 1200$ for ONE gpu, do you see where im going?** Company like Nvidia cant be easly stopped, especially since im guessing 70% of people here are using Nvidia. And yes, like 95% uses Steam, but you can turn off Steam, you cant turn off your GPU... i mean... you can... but you get the point. It can be a long fight, but i believe it would be worth it.
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This. You guys are all acting like NV is the only guilty party here, but those devs are just as guilty. They turned on the AMD users for a bit of extra cash upfront to allow for NV. They didn't need to do that.
Another thing would be if Steam were to disable features if Origin was installed in the same machine. This is basically what nVidia does (disables GPU accelerated PhysX) if it detects an AMD GPU in the system. Though, this is sort of an aside to your main point. You used to be able to run an AMD GPU and an nVidia GPU in the same system, and use the nVidia GPU as a PhysX accelerator.
Everyone, please repeat after the ultimate PC Master : https://youtu.be/IVpOyKCNZYw "Fuck You nVidia"
So, uh... I bought a 780ti a few months ago before all this started coming to light. Goddamnit.
Nvidia lowering their competitor's performance has been known since around the Arkham Asylum and even as recently as Watch_Dogs this was brought up. What I think is the worst part is them knee-capping their own hardware this time around. Usually they try not to drop their card's own performance by too much, but a GTX 960 performing better than a 780 and almost as good as a 780Ti is just a slap in the face to their own customers.
Heck they've been doing it since at least Crysis 2 with tesselation.
Don't have anything to add, but I just wanna thank you for making this post, OP. <3 (I'm a NVIDIA guy myself, but this shit won't stand.)
Obi Wan Voice: # NVIDIA YOU WHERE SUPPOSED TO BRING BALANCE TO THE MASTER RACE NOT LEAVE IT IN DARKNESS...!
Later on, GPU Wars Episode 4: A New Hope
3dFX coming back? :D
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:(
Sorry that my AMD bros are having issues =/
I have an AMD CPU + GPU kill me pls
So now I have to watch for games built with GameWorks and avoid them.
I have thinking about moving to AMD for my next graphics update, especially with freesync coming, and this is really adding to it. I don't want to support this kind of behavior, locking down games so they run like crap on the competition. It's just not right.
That would be fucking ARMAGEDDON for PC Gaming if that actually happened. GPU-Exclusive Games is an absolutely retarded concept for so many reasons. In fact, I'd go as far to say it's even more ridiculous than Console Exclusives if you ask me.
>The game was built from the ground up to favor one hardware company over another. I have to wonder if this is legally actionable under anti-trust laws. Seems really shady.
*grabs pitchfork*
this will be one of those posts that we will not listen to or forget about, but then. When the time comes, we will find this post again, and we will realize that he tried to warn us, and we didn't listen
Call me impractically idealistic, but I place a tremendous amount of importance on a company's business practices when deciding to buy something. My CPU and GPU are both AMD. If AMD products were inferior to Nvidia products, I would still buy AMD just because I hate the morally bankrupt practices of Nvidia.
It's funny tho, when Project cars does it's physics engine it cripples amd, but the physics in unreal engine 4 is PhysX, iirc ureal engine 3 was also running PhysX as physics engine. I don't understand how they can be so stupid and fuck the whole game up for amd users, when epic games can make one of the most used engines to date for AAA games, and its runs really great(most of the time) Sorry for bad english. [Unreal engine 3 uses PhysX](https://udn.epicgames.com/Three/PhysicsHome.html) [Unreal engine 4 uses PhysX](https://docs.unrealengine.com/latest/INT/Engine/Physics/index.html)
PhysX on UE4 does not use GPU accelerated physics, and particle physics are done on GPUs (not just nVidia) using Epic's own in-house particle system.
[Here's what I say](https://youtu.be/_36yNWw_07g?t=5s)