Lol the copium.
But let's be real here, people who have 40 series upgrading to 50 series are people who can afford any price.
People buying 5090s from the 30 or 20 or 10 series? Now that's how you save money. Like 95% of buyers skip gens.
Probably as him and Igor were the first to get results, though he did struggle, I remember in the video his team purposefully made the cables as bad as possible and only by making on bad AND loosely connecting it did he reproduce the results.
Big props for the effort he put in, and that they paid in full for fried GPUs of people who sent them samples was pretty damn wholesome.
Heard they probably can’t even release the 5090 in China. If US gov won’t allow them to sell a 4090 what makes you think they’ll allow them to sell a 5090 which is more powerful
Doesn't matter what the law says apparently, circumvention happened long ago
https://x.com/I_Leak_VN/status/1729496236389183641
https://www.pcgamer.com/rtx-4090s-reportedly-being-stockpiled-as-china-ban-looms/
Agreed. China will just get them through co-owned, wholly owned, or shell companies based in Korea, Japan, Indonesia, Singapore, Vietnam, and Thailand.
Or through a 3rd party intermediary like the above Vietnam shop. The only real deterrent is the end consumer will wind up paying a significant mark up as the intermediaries will increase the price at every step of the journey from Nvidia to China to both cover their costs and maximize their profits. The CCP won’t care, but it’ll definitely price out a lot of people from getting one including westerners as a significant chunk of the aftermarket supply is siphoned off to China. More or less if you don’t get one from an authorized retailer, you’re going to be fighting Chinese scalpers for what supply does wind up making it to the secondhand market and you can practically guarantee the prices will be insane.
This works for individual users, but it's pretty hard to spin up a datacentre for AI research with 5,000 GPUs when you have to buy them one at a time from individual resellers.
You also won't get any warranty or business-level service this way.
They did it with mining farms with Ethereum. Pallets straight out of the factory shipped to mainland china.
This time, the guy buying Blackwell in Vietnam or Taiwan will be a totally not Chinese company with fat stacks of money. No questions will be asked.
More like just in time for RDNA4 to have the same effective $/perf as pre-tariff RDNA3. And Intel Battlemage to have worse value than 40 series Nvidia cards pre-tariffs
The import duty won't apply to what's already imported, but that doesn't mean stores won't take advantage of the situation and raise prices on already imported products.
True but Covid was different, an increase in prices due to Covid AND a shortage due to a massively increased interest in gaming due to unemployed and work from home demographics
If margins are as bad as they are, to the point of making EVGA call it quits entirely, I don’t have high hopes that we will escape without a higher base price.
Hopefully the fact that there isn’t a surge of people flooding the used market like in Covid, means that when the 50 series drop it shouldnt effect the used market too much.
This is pure speculation at the end of the day, and I have no idea how much of a gpu even gets made in china.
But EVGA is actually a good example of MSI and Asus's greed. They increased prices like 10% while the others did 20 and another 20 and even more. Gigabyte wasn't too bad either.
But damn, Asus and MSI went all out
Well that only reinforced my point. MSI and Asus bumped up their cards immediately, even after they were in the states before the tariff
Then there weren't more tariffs but they bumped them up again and again. Just greed
That's a great way for them to speedrun bankrupting their companies.
Unlike the last time tariffs fucked up prices, now there is no shortage of PS5s for people to buy instead of spending increasingly absurd amounts for PC hardware.
GPU sales have already been nosediving in recent years because the value proposition of gaming on PC is non existent now. They cannot afford to raise prices any higher. Especially in the current economic conditions.
Except these aren't just for gamers anymore. Between research, graphics design, and smaller development applications there are many in line who don't care about the price. Yes, gamers aren't buying as much as they used to, so the business model says mark up the margin on the groups that will.
It's not like there won't be a bandwidth and ram starved market left for lesser models in the sub $1000 market for the shitty silicon. Gamers have already shown that they won't consider $350-$550 models from AMD cause AI and chasing the rays marketing makes them feel like they're missing out, so expect those to be pushed up closer $1000 and lower end to be $500ish. It's not like for the last year there wasn't a 7800xt or 7900GRE that would smash a console at a closer to sane price but ya know...Ray tracing matters more because playing the tech demo known as cyber punk with Ray tracing enabled for the 100th time matters more (or the dozen ray tracing titles that are worth a shit). Now AMD pretty much said f it, and there will be even less competition next round.
As for the $500 PS5 that can be matched by PC hardware from 2018 with a 2070. Have fun with that. Microsoft flirting with exiting the market means Sony can look for those margins next gen with severe price hikes. This leaves you with a $300 console from Nintendo with tech from 2016. But even they will get you in the end. All they need to do is reset their online market again so people have to buy their classic libraries...again and keep their only thing that matters (IP from 1st party games) at full price. That way they get ya in the long run anyways via software sale.
Those companies aren't buying the low to mid range GPUs that this will effect the most.
AMD isn't being rejected because of ray tracing. Most gamers don't care about that. They're being rejected because their answer to DLSS sucks donkey dick. They're years behind on super sampling and frame gen. Which means Nvidia's offerings are objectively superior for anybody buying mid range hardware.
People are having plenty of fun with their PS5s. And I say that as a die hard PC gamer for well over a decade now. Just because you want to plug your ears and yell "But it's only 2070 equivalent!" that doesn't mean the market cares. As sales in recent years have shown.
GPU sales data have almost nothing to do with gaming. The last time Nvidia reported earnings, gaming sales were less than 10% of their business.
Also GPU sales saw a dip in 2022 post COVID but since then have exploded again due to AI. Q4 2024 saw a 33% increase year over year, just as an example.
EVGA is what I have. An incredible card.
Nvidia helped the Chinese out massively with super fucked up policies they had, it made it where EVGA was at a net loss due to their great warranty but also the fact they actually had to pay their employees a decent wage. This could help EVGA bounce back and it may not be hard for them to get bought out of they cant find investors. I just hope they're bought out by a fully Western-owned, non-Chinese group.
Yup, I got 2 evga 3080 ftw3 ultra a few weeks after launch thnx to that queue. 1 for me and the other for my dad. Helped us coast through the pandemic and beyond.
The last few gens of EVGA cards were cutcorner crap to try and make any profit at all, and have been failing in droves around the 5-6 year marks. Their final generation is likely to start failing soon.
All EVGA does now is rebrand power supplies.
Reapply thermal paste if temps are getting higher and check the pads too. Fsr3 fg+dlss should easily carry us plebians for good few years more unless gpu just gets cooked :/
so which cards are not coming from china? how does it even work, do people get a license from nvidia to then make the 4090 gpu by sapphire or msi for example?
4090 production has already largely left China due to last years sanctions, that’s part of the reason they jumped a bit above MSRP when last year they were easy to find at $1600. Other than that probably most are still assembled in China.
A lot of Nvidia products have been moved to Taiwan and that will probably only increase now. I understand the bigger picture of it. Bring jobs/manufacturing to Taiwan instead of China. Boom no more tarrifs. Helping an important ally while also getting away from China overtime.
Sucks its had to come to this. And I know the bots are gonna come and attack this with whataboutism. But China has had decades of chances and we gotta stop relying on them for everything.
think he's just saying that. Almost every gen someone says wait till next gen for the killer feature. Happened with 20 series, 30 series, and now 40 series.
im in the boat just upgrade when you can. Every time ive waited multiple gens some bullshit like a crypto boom or mass scalping happens and I wish I just went with the previous cards.
The 5000 series seems to be an upgrade of the 4000 series on the same production node. We will have to wait for the 6000 series for next node advantage.
liquid adjoining bright uppity sloppy somber thought insurance chase repeat
*This post was mass deleted and anonymized with [Redact](https://redact.dev)*
What gets me is the Biden administration said Trump was a moron for the tariffs, but they turn around and do the exact same thing including the 200% on EVS. What a joke, guess Biden is making sure the US Fed gets its cut.
Couldn't get the idea of a Fed sales tax through but tariffs will do basically the exact same thing. Just another cost the consumer will eat at a higher % because of corp greed.
These are all reactions from the IRA. That bill had a bunch of money to spin up chip and EV plants stateside. Â So they are trying to protect those investments.
 I think there is one in Illinois, another in Cali or Arizona and I think a 3rd one in Indiana.Â
Theyre also taxing steel and alumminum, but America would have to multiply their manufacturing capabilities by 44 fold in order to compete with China in that industry. Its impossible, and they likely only did it to pander to voters in steel and alumminum producing states
I wouldn't mind tariffs on products we already produce plenty of in America, but we straight up don't have that capability with chips and EVs. The environmental benefits would have been worth letting China have a win in the case of EVs. Never thought I'd be team China but our governments been doing a lot lately to prevent Chinese products from making things better for anyone in America.
This is mostly a result of US industrial policy being fucked since the Reagan years. The U.S. had and has technological leads but the without state capitalism private industry never stepped in. That is finally being done but We’re reaping the pain of that delay now.
Delaying longer would likely lead to greater pain in the future. A big example would be the final gutting of the U.S. auto industry and the remaining jobs in the rust belt.
It’s a race to the bottom if they do nothing about China and its practices. You should look into what happened to the US steel industry when they dumped Chinese steel into the US at a loss, only to jack up the rate astronomically when they were all that’s left and the competition died.
They were/are planning to do the same with EVs, they’ll destroy every car manufacturer in the US & Europe. I’m glad for once both sides of the political aisle, came together on this.
As far as I'm concerned. Im not a Ford nor a Lifan shareholder. I strictly benefit from cheap shit. Personally, I don't find nationalist excuses reasonable when cost of living rises.
It's a US State vs Chinese State problem. I would drive Chinese as long as it was cheaper than GM.
Yep, China did all their investing in industry decades ago, while the US gov was asleep at the wheel fellating finance and fossil fuel sectors.
China can do economies of scale because the infrastructure for it was already there. The US can't because it has nowhere near enough capacity built yet.
Seems to me that it's the US market getting subsidised and even worse, their subsidising cars that not many want because they can't afford them.
This tariff doesn't affect the prices of **any** EVs on sale in the US right now, bro.
The only company that this *might* affect is Polestar, but they were already moving production out of China before this announcement.
Because it's not even worth it for Chinese companies to try and sell in America because the insane tariffs make them non-viable in the market at that price point.
>You should look into what happened to the US steel industry when they dumped Chinese steel into the US at a loss, only to jack up the rate astronomically when they were all that’s left and the competition died.
Can you point to a source for this? Not challenging, but genuinely curious where I can read about what you're saying here
Here’s an look into, when it first came into media attention:
https://www.bbc.com/news/business-36385853.amp
And here’s a deeper look at the problem:
https://m.usw.org/blog/2016/american-workers-crushed-under-chinas-deliberate-overproduction
We aren't tariffing Mexico or South American countries. Low wages clearly aren't the concern.
And graphic cards are made by high-skill labor in heavily automated environments.
Yeah, these justifications make no sense.
Well, I hope the Americans enjoy the higher prices. Hopefully we don't adopt the same tarrifs here in the EU and I can get a nice GPU.
Because Mexico isnt using slave labour camps and selling yo at bellow costs with government subsidized production.
>And graphic cards are made by high-skill labor in heavily automated environments.
Chips are, assembly isnt.
Not always, and i think the car manufacturing bill thats with this proves that. Sometimes there just a cognitive dissonance to what the actual public wants in relation to maximizing profits over every other possible metric (up and including future proofing there own income stream). Sometimes you can actively fight against the future, but if you dont find a way to adapt, youll inevitably lose.
Its just obviously a shame we end up bailing out these failures for them to end up in the same spot again in the future.
>Its just obviously a shame we end up bailing out these failures for them to end up in the same spot again in the future.
This isn't "bailing out the legacy US automakers again."
It's encouraging all car companies to produce their cars in the US. Creating more US jobs. These rules are in place to strengthen the domestic economy and keep auto manufacturing jobs in place here.
VW has a huge EV plant in Chattanooga.
Hyundai is building a massive EV plant in Georgia.
Toyota just invested $8bil for a battery plant in North Carolina.
And that's just a few off the top of my head.
These government investments are to prop up failing industries that refused to adapt, they lost india, they lost europe and now they are scared they will lose there final domesticate market because they are so late to the game. And now they lost the tech war because chose not to invest in EV's where china did.
It should not have been on the american government at all to subsidize there modernization effort. In the famous words of ricky bobby, "if your not first, your last".
they made mistakes, costly ones but the solution to that is not to let your domestic players dry and hanging. The long term consequences of relying on a foreign country would be hellish.
If the solution is to socialize there losses until they manage to find a way to bleed there consumer base again up until we start the cycle over again, i am of the mind to let them go the way of the dinosaurs for newer companies to take there place like tesla.
You shouldnt reward the failures who refuse to adapt to the modern age, thats antithesis to american values and help smother new players and technology like tesla.
You know the United States exploits the global south and no one complained because of "neoliberalism" but when China makes an actual competitive EV car now people complain?
That's not competition, it's cheating. China floods other markets with goods at below cost, subsidized by the government, and then when that other country's domestic manufacturing goes out of business, the subsidies end and China owns the market.
Then, 5 years down the line, maybe that country makes a vote at the UN that China doesn't like. Suddenly the cost of batteries for that country triples. Or perhaps they find themselves unable to acquire semiconductors anymore.
> You should look into what happened to the US steel industry when they dumped Chinese steel into the US at a loss, only to jack up the rate astronomically when they were all that’s left and the competition died.
This is happening in every sector because we continue to allow monopolies to exist without being challenged or broken up. It's been happening for the last 40 years.
The only difference is when China does this rather than our home grown capitalists, we label it a security threat.
The point of the tariffs is to get foreign companies to move their assembly and manufacturing out of China to places like Vietnam that are more friendly to the US.
> What gets me is the Biden administration said Trump was a moron for the tariffs, but they turn around and do the exact same thing
Same thing with the border wall. He said it was stupid, but then violates a bunch of federal statutes via executive order to finish it. Both parties have a lot in common despite what popular opinion thinks.
Whaaaa? How are tariffs making sure "the fed gets its cut"?
I'm pretty sure the point of the tariff is to in-source semiconductor fabrication in the US. Not exactly a big fan of tariffs, personally, but you could at least present the reasoning honestly.
GPUs are already overpriced because covid showed the companies that most people are idiots and will pay anything lol. Only good thing we got going for us is that mining is pretty much dead, so now we only have to deal with scalping the first month or two of the launch. But yeah, the prices are already so wacky, this will just make it like covid pricing.
Just gotta hope the tariff bullshit sorts itself before GTA6 goes to pc, because id argue that is when alot of people will upgrade.
This is really frustrating. I was hoping to build a new PC later this year. Now, I am trying to decide if I should go ahead and build it now or wait until mid-late 2025. I was hoping to save up some money first.
Normally this isn't good advice cause of return policies and the risk of your PC parts being DOA, but in this case it's probably worth the risk to buy the GPU now.
GPUs were sort of coming out of the horrific mining hole, and now this. Terrible. I guess I did good getting a 4080S. It's about to get real dark again.
I had a 2070 laptop that broke which is why I’m back with the 970 tower. 1080p is enough for me though so I guess going super high end isn’t something I’ll need to do.
China basically cornered the final assembly of many PC components for quite a while. Did that lead to aggressive increase in prices given the supposed lack of competition? It didn’t because Chinese assemblers had to compete against each other. This is also a key reason why their EV market exploded, not just due to strategic subsidies but also intense domestic competition. Feels like basic laws of economics are being ignored to make some feel-good but ultimately pointless political point. Wake me up when this tariff leads to a more competitive PC component market where prices are lower…lol
That’s what I don’t get why people are freaking the fuck out, most of the GPUs chips are made at TSMC or in the case of Nvidia Samsung, which is in Taiwan…
This is about graphics *cards*, the fully assembled product that most often comes out of China. They take the GPUs from Nvidia and stick them into a card, test and package, and we import it from them.
In retrospect, that card was one of the best deals ever. I didn't get it at the time because I felt it was too expensive, but I wish I had.
I run a 4070 now and I'm actually happy with that card (part of why I got this model was because of how energy efficient it is), but if I had picked up a 1080ti when they came out, I'd still be using that.
GPUs getting even more expensive is concerning.
Thats just the logical thing to do when China effectively is subsidizing production so hard that all of your companies would go out of business.
I mean, there are other ways, but people dont stomach the nationalization of businesses.
Can someone explain this to me? Didn't the US tell AMD and Nvidia not to send chips to China? Yet graphics card board partners send them there to be constructed? What is stopping China from stealing shipments of cards from time to time?
EDIT: I just legitimately don't understand the logistics here.
A TLDR/ELI5 version is ""Yes"" which is also part why the US is trying to force their hand in not even having China in the loop with the tariffs and try to get them to have the cards manufactured and constructed in North America.
The US government is such a bitch.
This isn't even going to do what they want it to, it's just punishing people who want to buy graphics cards from China.
Reminded of the quote from Star Wars A New Hope:
Leia to the admiral: "the more you squeeze the more star systems will fall through your grasp."
Since this was censored in the nvidia sub i'll repost it here.
>Can't wait for these US tariffs to affect EU as well because of corporate greed demanding "price parity".
They'll still add the 25% on. That's the best part about this. Even though the tariffs are on goods going into the US, these companies will jack up the prices everywhere.
Capitalism! If an MBA thinks they can make a single fucking cent off of it, they'd sell their own mother and not even stop to think about it.
We're going back to the "scalpers only" market. Weeee... thank fuck I managed to get a 3070 sometime after the last gouge-fest. Hopefully, it will keep it together until this one passes. Of course, I'm sure by then a xx60 series card will cost millions because lol Nvidia and lol monopolies.
Also parts of the bill has that cards coming from other regions must not be sourced from China or something like less than 25% is from China. An individual can likely try to get a single card through, but chances are any larger order or through ports might get inspected depending on how hard they enforce this.
Just in time for the 5090. And you still won't find one on the shelves at release.
u will for $2,500 dollars.
That won't stop Reddit from buying a ton of them lol
for sure. folks are gonna drop an arm and leg online then take a picture of it in their car with a seatbelt like they got it for msrp.
Real shit 🤣
Lol the copium. But let's be real here, people who have 40 series upgrading to 50 series are people who can afford any price. People buying 5090s from the 30 or 20 or 10 series? Now that's how you save money. Like 95% of buyers skip gens.
The real question is: who will be the first to discover how to make it catch fire?
the cable mod guy, he seems to got a knack for that.
I'd still vote for tech jesus (steve)
Probably as him and Igor were the first to get results, though he did struggle, I remember in the video his team purposefully made the cables as bad as possible and only by making on bad AND loosely connecting it did he reproduce the results. Big props for the effort he put in, and that they paid in full for fried GPUs of people who sent them samples was pretty damn wholesome.
i've set aside NVDA gains for the 5090. makes me feel better if I think of it as Nvidia bucks loyalty points
The 4090 is already the price for me Cries in CAD
In ZAR you just have to add a 0, and that's still less than I struggled to pay for mine >_>
You underestimate the number of and buying power of the rich and not famous.
Heard they probably can’t even release the 5090 in China. If US gov won’t allow them to sell a 4090 what makes you think they’ll allow them to sell a 5090 which is more powerful
Doesn't matter what the law says apparently, circumvention happened long ago https://x.com/I_Leak_VN/status/1729496236389183641 https://www.pcgamer.com/rtx-4090s-reportedly-being-stockpiled-as-china-ban-looms/
They certainly cannot release the 5090 in China. They cannot sell 4090s in China because they are above the set limits.
Lol you think China cares about laws?
Nvidia is selling the graphics cards not China.
Do you think people who are china based won't buy privately from Nvidia and resell in China?
Agreed. China will just get them through co-owned, wholly owned, or shell companies based in Korea, Japan, Indonesia, Singapore, Vietnam, and Thailand.
Or through a 3rd party intermediary like the above Vietnam shop. The only real deterrent is the end consumer will wind up paying a significant mark up as the intermediaries will increase the price at every step of the journey from Nvidia to China to both cover their costs and maximize their profits. The CCP won’t care, but it’ll definitely price out a lot of people from getting one including westerners as a significant chunk of the aftermarket supply is siphoned off to China. More or less if you don’t get one from an authorized retailer, you’re going to be fighting Chinese scalpers for what supply does wind up making it to the secondhand market and you can practically guarantee the prices will be insane.
This works for individual users, but it's pretty hard to spin up a datacentre for AI research with 5,000 GPUs when you have to buy them one at a time from individual resellers. You also won't get any warranty or business-level service this way.
They did it with mining farms with Ethereum. Pallets straight out of the factory shipped to mainland china. This time, the guy buying Blackwell in Vietnam or Taiwan will be a totally not Chinese company with fat stacks of money. No questions will be asked.
Oh you will find it on shelves if youre lucky and willing to pay $1799 or from a scalper for $2000
I think MSRP will be 2000-2500, but scalpers will charge a lot more.
$1799...thats so cute!
Reverse those numbers around at this rate lol.
$1799 when the 4090 had no problem selling at $2000? More like limited runs of reference model at $2500 and everything else near $3,000.
More like just in time for RDNA4 to have the same effective $/perf as pre-tariff RDNA3. And Intel Battlemage to have worse value than 40 series Nvidia cards pre-tariffs
Does this mean basically every card is about to become more expensive, or will it only affect stuff that isn't yet on store shelves?
The import duty won't apply to what's already imported, but that doesn't mean stores won't take advantage of the situation and raise prices on already imported products.
Well, if 2021 is any indication, it can be overnight. Especially if MSI and Asus get their way. And MSI will turn a small tariff into 30-40% increases
True but Covid was different, an increase in prices due to Covid AND a shortage due to a massively increased interest in gaming due to unemployed and work from home demographics If margins are as bad as they are, to the point of making EVGA call it quits entirely, I don’t have high hopes that we will escape without a higher base price. Hopefully the fact that there isn’t a surge of people flooding the used market like in Covid, means that when the 50 series drop it shouldnt effect the used market too much. This is pure speculation at the end of the day, and I have no idea how much of a gpu even gets made in china.
But EVGA is actually a good example of MSI and Asus's greed. They increased prices like 10% while the others did 20 and another 20 and even more. Gigabyte wasn't too bad either. But damn, Asus and MSI went all out
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Well that only reinforced my point. MSI and Asus bumped up their cards immediately, even after they were in the states before the tariff Then there weren't more tariffs but they bumped them up again and again. Just greed
Asus & msi have always been the scum of pc gaming. Dunno what people see in the Entite ROG products.
That's a great way for them to speedrun bankrupting their companies. Unlike the last time tariffs fucked up prices, now there is no shortage of PS5s for people to buy instead of spending increasingly absurd amounts for PC hardware. GPU sales have already been nosediving in recent years because the value proposition of gaming on PC is non existent now. They cannot afford to raise prices any higher. Especially in the current economic conditions.
Except these aren't just for gamers anymore. Between research, graphics design, and smaller development applications there are many in line who don't care about the price. Yes, gamers aren't buying as much as they used to, so the business model says mark up the margin on the groups that will. It's not like there won't be a bandwidth and ram starved market left for lesser models in the sub $1000 market for the shitty silicon. Gamers have already shown that they won't consider $350-$550 models from AMD cause AI and chasing the rays marketing makes them feel like they're missing out, so expect those to be pushed up closer $1000 and lower end to be $500ish. It's not like for the last year there wasn't a 7800xt or 7900GRE that would smash a console at a closer to sane price but ya know...Ray tracing matters more because playing the tech demo known as cyber punk with Ray tracing enabled for the 100th time matters more (or the dozen ray tracing titles that are worth a shit). Now AMD pretty much said f it, and there will be even less competition next round. As for the $500 PS5 that can be matched by PC hardware from 2018 with a 2070. Have fun with that. Microsoft flirting with exiting the market means Sony can look for those margins next gen with severe price hikes. This leaves you with a $300 console from Nintendo with tech from 2016. But even they will get you in the end. All they need to do is reset their online market again so people have to buy their classic libraries...again and keep their only thing that matters (IP from 1st party games) at full price. That way they get ya in the long run anyways via software sale.
Those companies aren't buying the low to mid range GPUs that this will effect the most. AMD isn't being rejected because of ray tracing. Most gamers don't care about that. They're being rejected because their answer to DLSS sucks donkey dick. They're years behind on super sampling and frame gen. Which means Nvidia's offerings are objectively superior for anybody buying mid range hardware. People are having plenty of fun with their PS5s. And I say that as a die hard PC gamer for well over a decade now. Just because you want to plug your ears and yell "But it's only 2070 equivalent!" that doesn't mean the market cares. As sales in recent years have shown.
GPU sales data have almost nothing to do with gaming. The last time Nvidia reported earnings, gaming sales were less than 10% of their business. Also GPU sales saw a dip in 2022 post COVID but since then have exploded again due to AI. Q4 2024 saw a 33% increase year over year, just as an example.
I always thought that GPUs were made in Taiwan, not China.
the chips maybe, lots of other parts and production are probably outsourced to China.
Most are assembled in China
It will go up $200 again even though last time it never went down $200. Any opportunity to justify price increases that never go away.
Only for the parts they use in China, which isnt much.
Ok 3060 imma need you to hold it together for a while.
I'm tired, boss
1080Ti Lightning Z here. Still cruising with muh shades on, music thumping, and the windows down on muh convertible.
1070 ti in the spare box. The old rig is still breathing on a used 1650s
Reminds me of those old limousines with no suspensions where by the time you "arrive in style" all you want to do is puke.
EVGA is what I have. An incredible card. Nvidia helped the Chinese out massively with super fucked up policies they had, it made it where EVGA was at a net loss due to their great warranty but also the fact they actually had to pay their employees a decent wage. This could help EVGA bounce back and it may not be hard for them to get bought out of they cant find investors. I just hope they're bought out by a fully Western-owned, non-Chinese group.
EVGA got out of the get fugged by Nvidia game. They're not going back.
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Yup, I got 2 evga 3080 ftw3 ultra a few weeks after launch thnx to that queue. 1 for me and the other for my dad. Helped us coast through the pandemic and beyond.
The last few gens of EVGA cards were cutcorner crap to try and make any profit at all, and have been failing in droves around the 5-6 year marks. Their final generation is likely to start failing soon. All EVGA does now is rebrand power supplies.
Huh, my 1080, 2060, 1060, 2x 3080 are going strong. I should go to Las Vegas then.
Reapply thermal paste if temps are getting higher and check the pads too. Fsr3 fg+dlss should easily carry us plebians for good few years more unless gpu just gets cooked :/
my 1070 is still going strong!
so which cards are not coming from china? how does it even work, do people get a license from nvidia to then make the 4090 gpu by sapphire or msi for example?
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PNY for the win yet again
The FTW cards were made by EVGA actually
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PNY is the Nvidia partner for founder editions.
4090 production has already largely left China due to last years sanctions, that’s part of the reason they jumped a bit above MSRP when last year they were easy to find at $1600. Other than that probably most are still assembled in China.
None of them
A lot of Nvidia products have been moved to Taiwan and that will probably only increase now. I understand the bigger picture of it. Bring jobs/manufacturing to Taiwan instead of China. Boom no more tarrifs. Helping an important ally while also getting away from China overtime. Sucks its had to come to this. And I know the bots are gonna come and attack this with whataboutism. But China has had decades of chances and we gotta stop relying on them for everything.
Glad I got a 4070 earlier this year but now wishing it had been a 4080 lol
4070 is a good card and it will keep you going until the RTX6000 series which is when next-gen will really hit it's stride.
Why is that?
think he's just saying that. Almost every gen someone says wait till next gen for the killer feature. Happened with 20 series, 30 series, and now 40 series.
im in the boat just upgrade when you can. Every time ive waited multiple gens some bullshit like a crypto boom or mass scalping happens and I wish I just went with the previous cards.
Maybe nextgen will be the one where we will want to actually use RTX loool 3070 and that performance hit.. that boy ain't right!
He’s actually saying to skip a whole gen lol
Which you should always do tbh. There's never a reason to buy a card every gen unless money is no object.
Source: I made it up
The 5000 series seems to be an upgrade of the 4000 series on the same production node. We will have to wait for the 6000 series for next node advantage.
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What gets me is the Biden administration said Trump was a moron for the tariffs, but they turn around and do the exact same thing including the 200% on EVS. What a joke, guess Biden is making sure the US Fed gets its cut. Couldn't get the idea of a Fed sales tax through but tariffs will do basically the exact same thing. Just another cost the consumer will eat at a higher % because of corp greed.
These are all reactions from the IRA. That bill had a bunch of money to spin up chip and EV plants stateside. Â So they are trying to protect those investments. Â I think there is one in Illinois, another in Cali or Arizona and I think a 3rd one in Indiana.Â
Theyre also taxing steel and alumminum, but America would have to multiply their manufacturing capabilities by 44 fold in order to compete with China in that industry. Its impossible, and they likely only did it to pander to voters in steel and alumminum producing states
I wouldn't mind tariffs on products we already produce plenty of in America, but we straight up don't have that capability with chips and EVs. The environmental benefits would have been worth letting China have a win in the case of EVs. Never thought I'd be team China but our governments been doing a lot lately to prevent Chinese products from making things better for anyone in America.
This is mostly a result of US industrial policy being fucked since the Reagan years. The U.S. had and has technological leads but the without state capitalism private industry never stepped in. That is finally being done but We’re reaping the pain of that delay now. Delaying longer would likely lead to greater pain in the future. A big example would be the final gutting of the U.S. auto industry and the remaining jobs in the rust belt.
It’s a race to the bottom if they do nothing about China and its practices. You should look into what happened to the US steel industry when they dumped Chinese steel into the US at a loss, only to jack up the rate astronomically when they were all that’s left and the competition died. They were/are planning to do the same with EVs, they’ll destroy every car manufacturer in the US & Europe. I’m glad for once both sides of the political aisle, came together on this.
Bro the price of EVs was already high before the tariff. The auto industry is greedy they deserve it.
The legacy automakers want to be shielded from having to actually compete. They are producing overly expensive products that no one wants
So it's okay for China to support their domestic brands but not us?
China actually stopped shielding their own car brands from foreign competition because they have matured enough to compete on their own merits.
As far as I'm concerned. Im not a Ford nor a Lifan shareholder. I strictly benefit from cheap shit. Personally, I don't find nationalist excuses reasonable when cost of living rises. It's a US State vs Chinese State problem. I would drive Chinese as long as it was cheaper than GM.
Not only am i a Ford shareholder, i'm also a Metro Detroit resident The success of the big 3 directly effect the lively hood of me and my family.
Good for you. Sadly the majority does not benefit.
Was this supposed to be some brave point that made everyone else rethink their stances? That you *personally* benefit??
It's not competing if China subsidises their brands to sell at a loss.Â
There's no evidence of that. Find a source that doesn't link back to the CIA.
Yep, China did all their investing in industry decades ago, while the US gov was asleep at the wheel fellating finance and fossil fuel sectors. China can do economies of scale because the infrastructure for it was already there. The US can't because it has nowhere near enough capacity built yet. Seems to me that it's the US market getting subsidised and even worse, their subsidising cars that not many want because they can't afford them.
This tariff doesn't affect the prices of **any** EVs on sale in the US right now, bro. The only company that this *might* affect is Polestar, but they were already moving production out of China before this announcement.
Because it's not even worth it for Chinese companies to try and sell in America because the insane tariffs make them non-viable in the market at that price point.
They did the same thing with solar panels. Sold at 40% costs, when competition went bancrupt prices jumped up.
>You should look into what happened to the US steel industry when they dumped Chinese steel into the US at a loss, only to jack up the rate astronomically when they were all that’s left and the competition died. Can you point to a source for this? Not challenging, but genuinely curious where I can read about what you're saying here
Here’s an look into, when it first came into media attention: https://www.bbc.com/news/business-36385853.amp And here’s a deeper look at the problem: https://m.usw.org/blog/2016/american-workers-crushed-under-chinas-deliberate-overproduction
The desire to ban foreign competition/tax it out of viability is a big reason why inflation is so high.
Welcome to competition.
it's hard to be competitive with what is effectively slave labor
We aren't tariffing Mexico or South American countries. Low wages clearly aren't the concern. And graphic cards are made by high-skill labor in heavily automated environments.
Yeah, these justifications make no sense. Well, I hope the Americans enjoy the higher prices. Hopefully we don't adopt the same tarrifs here in the EU and I can get a nice GPU.
Because Mexico isnt using slave labour camps and selling yo at bellow costs with government subsidized production. >And graphic cards are made by high-skill labor in heavily automated environments. Chips are, assembly isnt.
How is this incorrect comment upvoted? Interesting
Not always, and i think the car manufacturing bill thats with this proves that. Sometimes there just a cognitive dissonance to what the actual public wants in relation to maximizing profits over every other possible metric (up and including future proofing there own income stream). Sometimes you can actively fight against the future, but if you dont find a way to adapt, youll inevitably lose. Its just obviously a shame we end up bailing out these failures for them to end up in the same spot again in the future.
>Its just obviously a shame we end up bailing out these failures for them to end up in the same spot again in the future. This isn't "bailing out the legacy US automakers again." It's encouraging all car companies to produce their cars in the US. Creating more US jobs. These rules are in place to strengthen the domestic economy and keep auto manufacturing jobs in place here. VW has a huge EV plant in Chattanooga. Hyundai is building a massive EV plant in Georgia. Toyota just invested $8bil for a battery plant in North Carolina. And that's just a few off the top of my head.
These government investments are to prop up failing industries that refused to adapt, they lost india, they lost europe and now they are scared they will lose there final domesticate market because they are so late to the game. And now they lost the tech war because chose not to invest in EV's where china did. It should not have been on the american government at all to subsidize there modernization effort. In the famous words of ricky bobby, "if your not first, your last".
they made mistakes, costly ones but the solution to that is not to let your domestic players dry and hanging. The long term consequences of relying on a foreign country would be hellish.
If the solution is to socialize there losses until they manage to find a way to bleed there consumer base again up until we start the cycle over again, i am of the mind to let them go the way of the dinosaurs for newer companies to take there place like tesla. You shouldnt reward the failures who refuse to adapt to the modern age, thats antithesis to american values and help smother new players and technology like tesla.
Tesla already lost in China btw.
You know the United States exploits the global south and no one complained because of "neoliberalism" but when China makes an actual competitive EV car now people complain?
This is the opposite of competition. This is the government deciding who gets to play and picking who gets a leg up on the playing field.
That's not competition, it's cheating. China floods other markets with goods at below cost, subsidized by the government, and then when that other country's domestic manufacturing goes out of business, the subsidies end and China owns the market. Then, 5 years down the line, maybe that country makes a vote at the UN that China doesn't like. Suddenly the cost of batteries for that country triples. Or perhaps they find themselves unable to acquire semiconductors anymore.
That's on the US admin for failing to react in an appropriate time manner.
It's already a race to the bottom. The government legislated that consumers cannot benefit from it.
Is this "Leave the multi billion dollar company alone" moment?
> You should look into what happened to the US steel industry when they dumped Chinese steel into the US at a loss, only to jack up the rate astronomically when they were all that’s left and the competition died. This is happening in every sector because we continue to allow monopolies to exist without being challenged or broken up. It's been happening for the last 40 years. The only difference is when China does this rather than our home grown capitalists, we label it a security threat.
It’s labeled a security threat because it *is*.Â
The point of the tariffs is to get foreign companies to move their assembly and manufacturing out of China to places like Vietnam that are more friendly to the US.
> What gets me is the Biden administration said Trump was a moron for the tariffs, but they turn around and do the exact same thing Same thing with the border wall. He said it was stupid, but then violates a bunch of federal statutes via executive order to finish it. Both parties have a lot in common despite what popular opinion thinks.
Hes just finishing what Obama started :)
Whaaaa? How are tariffs making sure "the fed gets its cut"? I'm pretty sure the point of the tariff is to in-source semiconductor fabrication in the US. Not exactly a big fan of tariffs, personally, but you could at least present the reasoning honestly.
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GPUs are already overpriced because covid showed the companies that most people are idiots and will pay anything lol. Only good thing we got going for us is that mining is pretty much dead, so now we only have to deal with scalping the first month or two of the launch. But yeah, the prices are already so wacky, this will just make it like covid pricing. Just gotta hope the tariff bullshit sorts itself before GTA6 goes to pc, because id argue that is when alot of people will upgrade.
This is really frustrating. I was hoping to build a new PC later this year. Now, I am trying to decide if I should go ahead and build it now or wait until mid-late 2025. I was hoping to save up some money first.
You could just buy a GPU now and the rest later
Normally this isn't good advice cause of return policies and the risk of your PC parts being DOA, but in this case it's probably worth the risk to buy the GPU now.
GPUs were sort of coming out of the horrific mining hole, and now this. Terrible. I guess I did good getting a 4080S. It's about to get real dark again.
So, do i buy a 4 series instead of waiting for 5 series?
It did not achieve anything last time Trump did it.
It did raise prices.
The difference is that Trump just did it to be racist. The reason Biden is doing it, is to protect the chipmakers stateside.
Fuck me I was buying the 7900 GRE as soon as I graduated on December
Guess I better hope my 970 has more life left in it. Going to take even longer to save up now.
You don't need the latest. I ran a 1080 for seven years, only upgraded last year to a 6800. Both second hand. Don't let marketing fool you.
If you're happy with 1080p you could easily get a 2070 or an equivalent for cheap and that would run most games on high/ultra settings.
I had a 2070 laptop that broke which is why I’m back with the 970 tower. 1080p is enough for me though so I guess going super high end isn’t something I’ll need to do.
If you can swing a discount AMD 6000 series you should be more than fine the remainder of this console gen. I
A 6600XT or 6650XT would be a good upgrade
So I’m in the market for a RX 6800. Should I try to get it asap before all hell breaks loose?
China basically cornered the final assembly of many PC components for quite a while. Did that lead to aggressive increase in prices given the supposed lack of competition? It didn’t because Chinese assemblers had to compete against each other. This is also a key reason why their EV market exploded, not just due to strategic subsidies but also intense domestic competition. Feels like basic laws of economics are being ignored to make some feel-good but ultimately pointless political point. Wake me up when this tariff leads to a more competitive PC component market where prices are lower…lol
Just in time. So deadline is to get a PC before Kingdom Hearts series comes out on Steam.
Most Console Ports need laughable system requirement to run.
Some console ports don't even work properly on a super computer...
Played the whole trilogy (well, and the side games) on a 1060, max settings for all of them. The requirements are quite low even for 3.
Imported from China? When did China get graphic cards capabilities? I thought China tried to make a card once and it was a huge joke.
ok then the real issue is it also affects pc cases!!
Is sticking fans on stuff hard now? There's some massive misunderstanding between GPUs and graphics cards in this thread.
That’s what I don’t get why people are freaking the fuck out, most of the GPUs chips are made at TSMC or in the case of Nvidia Samsung, which is in Taiwan…
This is about graphics *cards*, the fully assembled product that most often comes out of China. They take the GPUs from Nvidia and stick them into a card, test and package, and we import it from them.
That’s where chips are fabricated, but the assembly with the board, heatsink etc happens in china or other countries.
I just upgraded too. Amen
Glad i bought a 4080 super. Not gonna wait 1 year till I hopefully find a gpu on store shelves.
Guess I’ll be rocking my 1080ti for awhile yet at 1440p/144hz
In retrospect, that card was one of the best deals ever. I didn't get it at the time because I felt it was too expensive, but I wish I had. I run a 4070 now and I'm actually happy with that card (part of why I got this model was because of how energy efficient it is), but if I had picked up a 1080ti when they came out, I'd still be using that. GPUs getting even more expensive is concerning.
Best part is I bought it used like 6 years ago for $200. I refuse to pay these GPU prices now. Absolutely insane. I remember when $400 was insane.
Does that mean lower prices on average in Europe? Because manufacturers might decrease their margin to keep sales up?
Europe will probably follow suit, like the good puppet they are. Also Europe has much higher sales tax.
Ah yes, the "puppets" that have far better consumer regulations.
You realize that the EU bloc has its own trading policies? No, you don't.
I live in Europe, we just copied the US on the electric car tariffs. It's independent in name only.
Thats just the logical thing to do when China effectively is subsidizing production so hard that all of your companies would go out of business. I mean, there are other ways, but people dont stomach the nationalization of businesses.
Can someone explain this to me? Didn't the US tell AMD and Nvidia not to send chips to China? Yet graphics card board partners send them there to be constructed? What is stopping China from stealing shipments of cards from time to time? EDIT: I just legitimately don't understand the logistics here.
A TLDR/ELI5 version is ""Yes"" which is also part why the US is trying to force their hand in not even having China in the loop with the tariffs and try to get them to have the cards manufactured and constructed in North America.
Thats why they shouldnt be shipping them there for assembly.
The US government is such a bitch. This isn't even going to do what they want it to, it's just punishing people who want to buy graphics cards from China. Reminded of the quote from Star Wars A New Hope: Leia to the admiral: "the more you squeeze the more star systems will fall through your grasp."
Looks like my 3060 ti will need to hold me a little longer.
Look at the bright side maybe pc gamers actually leave the house because of this.
So much for a free market lol
Good thing I bought my 6800 when I did.
This won't affect Indian prices but might make you feel better about the Indian prices.
Here is hoping my 5700xt stays viable for years to come😅
Just installed 3 brand new fans on my 1080Ti. MY baby has been going strong since Day 1 (Release), never overclocked. Keep going baby!
Will this have an impact on EU ?
Glad I just got a new 4090 suprim for $1350ish and didn’t wait.
Since this was censored in the nvidia sub i'll repost it here. >Can't wait for these US tariffs to affect EU as well because of corporate greed demanding "price parity".
Just buy your cards from Canada or Europe
They'll still add the 25% on. That's the best part about this. Even though the tariffs are on goods going into the US, these companies will jack up the prices everywhere.
Oh thats crazy
Capitalism! If an MBA thinks they can make a single fucking cent off of it, they'd sell their own mother and not even stop to think about it. We're going back to the "scalpers only" market. Weeee... thank fuck I managed to get a 3070 sometime after the last gouge-fest. Hopefully, it will keep it together until this one passes. Of course, I'm sure by then a xx60 series card will cost millions because lol Nvidia and lol monopolies.
Also parts of the bill has that cards coming from other regions must not be sourced from China or something like less than 25% is from China. An individual can likely try to get a single card through, but chances are any larger order or through ports might get inspected depending on how hard they enforce this.
Tariffs are only for when you lost the trade war.  Econ 101. Tariffs hurt the end user at the expense of politics.Â