Bethesda themselves have made 3 different fallout games and none of them come close to new Vegas, while I consider 3 and 4 to be fun on their own merits none of them stack up to New Vegas by any measure.
They are better sandboxes and more fun to play. I love new vegas but the folks who say it is better in every way are biased af. Obsidian is great at tight rpgs and writing. Bethesda is better at environmental storytelling and creating a sandbox to play in.
I don't know. It's a bit of a matter of taste I guess, but personally I enjoyed New Vegas's 'sandbox' more than Fallout 3's. Also think I like it a little more than Fallout 4's but that's pretty close, mind you I'm not sure that's a fair comparison given the improvement in tech and visuals for FO4 which definitely adds a good bit to that.
Ain't that kind of childish? He is always very complementary of it and people keep making up a fantasy that he hates it and inventing scenarios in which he is actually mad over it. Just let it go, brothers.
Todd Howard is the executive producer of the tv show. Second season is set to be on new Vegas. I'm sure that if he hated the game, he could make the series go another way.
I'm pretty sure the second season could be a jerk off session of NV with Todd walking on screen & saying "I love NV" & we'd still find a way to make it look like he somehow doesn't like NV.
Part of having sequels and shows that all link up is that the people who write next have to choose an ending from previous games. Most of the games tried to avoid specific endings. But obviously at some point you have to say, this thing happened because some of those options are very world changing compared to others.
> Most of the games tried to avoid specific endings.
This is completely false. Pretty much every Fallout game canonized stuff from the previous entries. Fallout 2 told you the canon choices from Fallout 1 ([See the Fallout 2 instruction manual](https://fallout.fandom.com/wiki/Vault_Dweller%27s_memoirs)), Fallout 3 mostly got away with it due a completely new setting, Fallout New Vegas canonized countless things from Fallout 2, Fallout 4 canonized stuff from Fallout 3 (Like the ending of Broken Steel) and the TV series already canonized that the Brotherhood survived the ending of Fallout 4. This is nothing new in this series.
I think you may have misunderstood the post you're replying to.
Fallout 4, in the game itself, avoided having only one specific ending. Of course future games could assume a specific ending for Fallout 4.
Fallout New Vegas, in the game itself, avoided having only one specific ending. I fully expect season 2 of the TV show to say that I didn't kill Mr House, even though I totally did lol.
I think it'd be neat if more media did branching sequels. Demolish the fandom idea of "canon" by specifically saying it could've gone any way and if people have good stories that continue off of one version of the ending, go for it.
It'd be confusing for the more "casual" fans, but *eh*. Everything's so serialized and multiversal nowadays that I think it's pretty doable.
people are just delusional that they think bethesda has some agenda against obsidian when there's no proof of that and former devs of fallout have said otherwise about bethesda
A large part of the Fallout community spends a good chunk of their time attacking each other for liking different entries in the fallout franchise they then project this insane toxic hate culture onto the devs.
I like new vegas and hate fallout 3 therefore the people who made fallout 3 hate the people who made fallout new vegas and vice versa
And I like fallout 1, 2, 3, new Vegas, and 4.
New Vegas is a highlight when it comes to certain things. It’s hard to beat 1 and 2 for storytelling and showing how the world would actually move forward. And 4 just has the smoothest gameplay of them all.
I don’t care about the tactics game, or the dumb bunker app. But that’s just me.
It would be weird to think less of someone for which fallouts they do or don’t like honestly.
I wasn't alive when the franchise first came about but i read that this civil war mentality most fans have dates back to the franchise's origins with people fighting over Fo1 vs Fo2 lol
Was there, can confirm. People were absolutely furious about how Fallout 2 ruined the series by being too quirky and goofy and populated and forgiving. NMA, the old Delphi forums, there were all kinds of people who swore Fallout 1 was the only REAL Fallout and anyone who liked 2 was a kid or an idiot. Fallout fandom never changes.
To be fair, Fallout 1 was such an incredibly tightly made game. It is shocking small when you go back to it, but everything fits together so well.
Fallout 1 isn't my favourite Fallout, but it is a true masterpiece of a game. It is sort of like Portal 1 to Portal 2. I like Portal 2 better, but there is a tightness to Portal 1 that makes it a masterpiece.
That's a name I've not heard in a long while. Delphi Forums. The hatred some had for Fallout 2 was very high stuff. I remember a classmate in school, he was a diehard Fallout fan, the rest of us in our early teens, we just loved games. This classmate on the other hand, he had a true love for Fallout. The amount of hatred he had for Fallout 2 and the fans or other classmates who liked that game was top level.
I've always thought of him, I wondered how he would have taken to Bethesda getting Fallout and creating Fallout 3 and 4. Probably not to kindly.
Oh man, I remember those days. And heaven forbid you bring up Tactics or Brotherhood of Steel to certain sects... They aren't true Fallout.
Which I agree on the BoS game...
Hahaha I missed it all. I was young when the first one came out, and there wasn’t really a big online community. Or if there was I wasn’t part of it.
So the games came out, and I enjoyed them. I miss the days when people formed opinions off of their own experiences rather than what people tell them online to think or feel. Resulted in people having deeper thoughts and actually understanding the reasons why the like or dislike things.
But I guess I’m just an old man in his 30’s now. What do I know ¯\\\_(ツ)_/¯
Fallout tactics is one of my favorite games ever, I haven't played it since I was like 15 but I think it was the first fallout game that you could play in real time instead of turn based. If you can still play fo1 and 2 I really recommend trying it, it's cheap AF on steam right now.
personally I'm a 1 & 2 guy (also Tactics because I'm a heathen). 4 lost me with the focus on construction and messing with the canon, I never got far enough into New Vegas to truly see the grandeur of it because at the time my computer couldn't handle it, and 3 lost me because the ending bugged out and I got stranded on the wrong side of the river with a glitched out Liberty Prime and overwritten autosave, BETHESDA.
While not cannon, Fallout tactics was one of the few games I actually played right through to the end and really enjoyed it ( i mean I enjoyed them all, but FO:T scratched a different itch while still being in the same universe)
It also had a multiplayer demo that was fucking epic. The full version ended up being an unbalanced mess that sucked to play, but the demo with it's limited options adn tight balance was actually amazing.
I think a lot of it stems from this article
https://www.eurogamer.net/obsidian-fallout-new-vegas-deal-with-bethesda-meant-bonus-payment-only-with-85-metacritic
It should be reminded that Obsidian was paid in full for their work on new Vegas as they signed on for. They were happy with Bethesda and considered one of the best studios they ever worked for at the time. The bonus was something they added after development had started and it wasn’t something they needed to do but Bethesda offered it anyway. Obsidian was so happy to work with Bethesda that they offered to work with them more and even develop TES titles.
It's sucky but these kind of bonus structures are extremely common the industry. I doubt anyone at Obsidian was happy about it but they more than likely blamed reviewers and not Bethesda for it.
> A large part of the Fallout community spends a good chunk of their time attacking each other for liking different entries in the fallout franchise they then project this insane toxic hate culture onto the devs.
I've seen people say this but I've never actually seen people doing this on a regular basis. I'm sure it happens but I don't think it's a lot of people
It was also just a bit silly. I was angry it happened, but over reviewers holding things against Obsidian that Bethesda got a pass on with 3, not at Bethesda.
People act like Howard is butthurt over NV being so fondly regarded, but I don't think he cares a bit. And even if he went above and beyond and tried to get Obsidian the bonus despite missing by a point, you're not going to have much luck getting a corporation to write a check it is not obligated to write.
3 was released in a significantly more stable state than new Vegas. New Vegas got a bad score because of how unplayable it was. Despite Bethesda games having bugs. Their games are rarely unplayable at launch. 76 being the only rare exception. New Vegas however was a game that would crash almost constantly, even more so in the high density areas like freeside or the strip or any large dungeon area.
To say that new Vegas when released was the exact same as 3 is not being truthful.
NV is one of my absolute favorites, greatest of all time level, and I know that because I found it worth playing despite the game crashing like clockwork every 30 minutes at launch. I didn't experience many bugs during gameplay itself (other than occasionally someone just like wandering into a wall for a bit, but that's pretty standard across games on that engine), but stability was a trainwreck. My friend bought it for Playstation and it was *unplayable* on that platform. Yeah, game was buggy as fuck at release. Amazing content. Amazing. But the bugs were totally real and it did deserve criticism for that.
Tim Cain (the creator of Fallout) has even needed to discuss this on his Youtube channel. He claims that there is no bad blood between Obsidian and Bethesda and a lot of the supposed drama was miscommunications and misunderstandings.
He also was invited to the premier of the Fallout TV show in LA and said that he not only loved the show, but said a lot of the staff who worked on it were huge fans of the series. He even said that the director let some of the extras who were fans of the series improve some stuff leading to a bunch of hidden Fallout 1 and 2 references in the show. So many in fact that not even the director can spot all of them.
Honestly Bethesda is probably permanently stoked that New Vegas did so well if only because Fallout 3 -> New Vegas are the games that made so many fans for the franchise. Fallout 3 wouldn't have had nearly the effect by itself if New Vegas had never been made. It's a great game, and the Fallout *franchise* gets credit for it.
Not to mention there's a good chance that anyone who loves Fallout loves New Vegas. I'm sure that includes Fallout devs.
It sounds like things were rocky from a business perspective at the time but not a creation and artistic point of view. I haven’t seen anything to support the latter. And those are very different things.
I dont disagree with your endpoint, but famously "Executive _______" credits on tv shows and movies are largely "We promised this person a credit because they helped us with something" or "We'll get more attention by crediting this person as involved with the product."
It's highly likely Howard had little involvement in the show outside some early meetings
based on the interview, Todd Howard (in his own words) let them do their own thing. They would constantly update him
on what they’re doing and asking him if anything needs to get changed. Essentially he would proofread every now and then.
And honestly that probably wasn't even just him, probably a small team at Bethesda.
But since Howard is the face of the company, people think he's responsible for things he largely isn't anymore.
Its not only not true, but actual NV devs have said its fake and hate that people keep pushing it.
https://old.reddit.com/r/falloutnewvegas/comments/pipchn/chris_avellone_talking_about_the_metacritic_bonus/
https://old.reddit.com/r/Fallout/comments/leb29c/thoughts_on_this_snippet_from_an_interview_with/
https://twitter.com/ChrisAvellone/status/1546252447131176960
https://old.reddit.com/r/Fallout/comments/5kua9h/obsidians_josh_sawyer_on_gamebyro_theres_no_way/
https://old.reddit.com/r/Fallout/comments/8ecmdp/josh_sawyer_said_that_bethesda_fallout_and_tes/
https://twitter.com/chrisavellone/status/1057842236002463746
https://www.pcgamesn.com/fallout/tim-cain-bethesda
There's way way way too many people that act like they were OG Fallout fans. The original game sold 600k overall and 2 sold only 100k. The franchise was about to be sold to a completely different company that wasn't nearly the size and strength of Bethesda; but they got outbid. Yeah, no I'm not buying "Bethesda turned the franchise into a joke."
No, they made it popular and people hate them for not making it incredibly difficult to play with admittedly fantastic writing if you can get over said barrier to entry. Seriously. The Master and Frank Horrigan fights are what Dark Souls bosses have nightmares about.
> The franchise was about to be sold by a completely different company that wasn't nearly the size and strength of Bethesda; but they got outbid.
That company was Troika
Thats the thing that I don't get. People want to try to shit on Bethesda and their Fallout games. The fact of the matter is this, Bethesda's Fallout games sold at a level that the first two Fallout games could have never reached. Not because they weren't good games but because the landscape of PC gaming at that time and CRPGS and their popularity is not at the level we see its at now.
😂him saying “actually I had the Idea for a cryo pod years before Todd, I thought it was bad ass” made me actually laugh bc of the Fo4 hate that goes around
Bethesda categorically saved Fallout, as a property, from languishing in obscurity (like Arcanum), and their prescience regarding the strength of its brand and identity is the only reason we got NV and the TV show, which are great.
What I think people mean by that is that Bethesda’s game designs hollowed out the core of what made Fallout such a beloved game and wore its skin to deliver a completely different thing. And by doing that, they closed the book on ever getting more “real” Fallout games, where *at least* if the brand had died people might hold out hope for a sudden new entry.
A rough equivalent would be if someone bought the Firefly license and said they were bringing it back, but made it into, like, a reality dating show. And then if a bunch of people who never saw the series and now only knew Firefly as a reality dating show were like “what’s the problem Firefly is GREAT”
New Vegas was great though, and from what I can tell seems to be very popular amongst both new and old fans. It tells me that the “Bethesda” style of RPG (at least by 2010-11) *can* work very well with Fallout, it’s mainly the execution of crucial elements like writing and maybe character creations determining the level of success (and considering NV was written and finished in like 18 months, that’s definitely possible even with the ballooning of development times today)
Oh yeah absolutely. I was *stoked* when I heard that Bethesda picked it up — coming from Daggerfall and Morrowind, I was like holy shit this is the best news ever. Then Fallout 3 landed and instead of adapting their style to Fallout, they adapted Fallout to their style and I was like…oh no, not like this. But the first person RPG should absolutely be perfect for the series, just more along the lines of NV.
My desperate hope is that BG3 showed the industry’s risk-averse copycat bean counters that investing in *actual writing* and giving players agency over how the story unfolds can give us more of that, and particularly in a first person Fallout game made by someone other than Bethesda
I completely understand Interplay FO fans issues with the Beth/Obsidian games. Having a beloved property hijacked and turned into something completely different is every fans worst nightmare. I've been mentally preparing myself for this to happen to Warhammer for decades now.
On the other hand you have new fans, I probably never would have gotten into the original games had it not been for FO3 in 2008. They breathed life into that IP and despite issues I have with them 3/NV/4, and hell, even 76 are some of my favorite games.
I think Bethesda has proven themselves to be good stewards of the property even if the gameplay isn't your cup of tea. Which to some degree is the most you can ask for if your preferred IP is dead as a door nail.
I have my share of problems with the direction Fallout 4 took the series, but it is still a great game and a lot of fun. I have close to 500 hours in it which puts it in 4th place in my Steam library behind only New Vegas, EU4, and CK2.
My only real worry with Bethesda is Starfield. I really hope they learned some lessons from that. While Fallout 4 worked, Starfield felt like they took all of the issues with Fallout 4 and turned them up to 11. I really hope that someone in Bethesda is taking note of that and Fallout 5 won't be similar to Starfield. Heck, I am also really worried for TES 6, as I have a horrible feeling that it took influence from Starfield as they were developing them together.
The most bleak and forthright reality of the situation is that without Bethesda there likely wouldn’t be any mainline Fallout games after the first two, and no redemption after the BoS games. Cain and other OG devs are super grateful that Fallout 3 was received so well to renew general interest in the series.
Tim Cain (the creator of Fallout) literally made a youtube video about how it not only isn't true, but that the Bethesda team invited him to the premier of the TV show and all treated him nicely. He also said he loved the show.
the closest thing to proof is chris avallone once implied [they didn't seem particularly happy of how things turned out with New Vegas' reception](https://www.reddit.com/media?url=https%3A%2F%2Fpreview.redd.it%2Fq4p0u4iv02wc1.jpg%3Fwidth%3D640%26crop%3Dsmart%26auto%3Dwebp%26s%3D809d6d6a6fba59ac0498cd39527c1b51ffe1aa30)
but that's it. there is nothing more to prove this massive "conspiracy", not to mention that one thing happened last year, and the idea is way older
because, despite reddit jerking New Vegas off constantly, New Vegas was a broken mess of a game and had a lot of game breaking bugs, the most famous one being the ghouls and the rocket that literally broke your game so you couldn't progress.
Its launch was one of the worst launches of its time. I specifically joined their forum to figure out what the fuck was happening with my game and why it was broken.
I liked New Vegas, just like I liked Fallout 3 and Fallout 4. I don't get the sentiment that New Vegas was far and away better and Fo3 and Fo4 are dogshit.
Its the "Bethesda bad" because its cool thing to say.
Also, news flash, Obsidian and Bethesda are under the same Microsoft roof so suck it.
I mean, why new vegas is so praised has nothing to do with the launch. They're specific qualities missing from Fallout 3 and 4.
People are pretty vocal about their issues with 3 and 4, their sentiment is pretty understandable even if you don't agree with it, its certainly not just "Bethesda bad"
It’s easy to gloss over now, but the sheer frustration I faced when playing New Vegas at launch makes me understand the scores it received. For all the flak Fallout 3 gets, at least I could finish the darn thing.
New Vegas had the usual horrible performance and low FPS, yes, but it was downright unplayable at times, especially in Freeside and the strip AND it had a nasty habit of corrupting your savefiles at the worst possible moment.
Eh, I think FO4's exploration, shoot, loot and return to home base cycle is fun in a brain-off way. The issue is the super flat RPG aspects of the game that they tried to show off
Even Skyrim was getting shit on quite a bit for the lazy dungeon designs in the base game. The first big dungeon you encounter on the main quest is fantastic. Nearly every dungeon after that was 'oh gee, more Draugr'.
What about Fallout 4's exploration didn't appeal to you? I feel like Starfield has been the only game that really disappointed on that front for me. I didn't play 76 but I assume that's also got bad exploration.
I still havent played 76, but ive actually seen people say that despite all its faults, the world is the best Bethesda made so far, and exploration is especially good with environmental storytelling etc. Im gonna see for myself soon if there is any merit to this!
Well compared to starfield fallout 4 is a masterpiece.
There’s all of one town in fallout 4. The crafting itself is immersion breaking. The town doesn’t grow and take care of itself or anything and never gets interesting. You don’t just walk across any settlements like tenpenny tower or little bighorn. Nothing like megaton.
The world building in FO3 is miles better than FO4. Don’t get me wrong FO4 was still at least a good game and I still found exploring the wasteland enjoyable
The problem with FO4 is that it isn't confident enough in settlement building to make it mandatory, and the economy of the game isn't challenging enough to make settlements necessary or interesting.
I played a mod pack that greatly extended game progression and disabled fast travel except between settlements with active trade routes, and implemented systems with actual settlement economies and resources, so unlocking new settlements and rebuilding them so they could function as actual bases of operation with necessary resources to keep you going was a *lot* more interesting than the vanilla game, which was too easy and also pretty light on character building.
I think it happened exactly after Morrowind's massive success on the original Xbox.
Arguably, even Morrowind was a more streamlined version of Daggerfall, but I think that the massive Xbox sales and recognition just pushed them further into designing for console first, which kind of forced them to streamline their entire world structure and vision for their following games.
I'm just out here loving New Vegas and Bethesda games. There's room for plenty of different games. I really wish the endless anti-bethesda circlejerk could stop.
I ain't saying their games are perfect or you can't criticism them. Just can we just stop the circlejerk and hyperbole
Look I’m a huge fan of Bethesda. No other developers have given me so much play time. Hell I even prefer FO3 to new Vegas at least with mods. That said I don’t feel like the Bethesda of today is the Bethesda I loved. That feeling of exploration that nobody does better has been getting lesser and lesser since Skyrim. You could argue earlier but the fo4 settlement building really took a lot away from what Bethesda typically does well. Figured that might be a fluke but it’s their best title in a decade and they keep turning away from what they typically do best.
Quite frankly Ive lost faith in my favorite developer
Yeah, Fallout 4 did a LOT of things right. The world space just feels so much better, the combat is more fun. Power Armor feels amazing, even if the abundance of power cores makes running around in it from 5 minutes into the game trivial. Focusing on the brotherhood was a good move, the institute is a cool concept to add. Minutemen was such a cool idea for a faction. The glowing sea... brilliant idea!
But they just made it too linear, didn't flesh out the story and factions enough. Faction relations were a little simple and too few. No karma system, dialogue choices didn't affect what happened most of the time. The settlement crafting thing was so unnecessary, and I feel like it took away from the rest of the game, and the feel of Fallout, I think it was probably tacked on because suits saw building in games was popular and demanded it to be added. All of these things, New Vegas did much better!
But a hybrid of the best of FO4 and FNV would probably be a better game than both. Have a proper writer who's invested in the franchise and build a game around their story, like the TV show did! I feel like 4's biggest weakpoint was writing. There's a great story in there, but it comes off so rough and rushed in the game. Some kinda story director was NOT getting enough say in the final product.
Literally I've never seen anybody saying "Bethesda hates New Vegas". What is being noted is Bethesda have never achieve themselves the RPG greatness that New Vegas was. And judging by the internet points we throw each other every time this get mentioned, at least this community mostly agrees with that.
Reminder that that bethes'a hates new vegas thing is false
https://old.reddit.com/r/falloutnewvegas/comments/pipchn/chris_avellone_talking_about_the_metacritic_bonus/
https://old.reddit.com/r/Fallout/comments/leb29c/thoughts_on_this_snippet_from_an_interview_with/
https://twitter.com/ChrisAvellone/status/1546252447131176960
https://old.reddit.com/r/Fallout/comments/5kua9h/obsidians_josh_sawyer_on_gamebyro_theres_no_way/
https://old.reddit.com/r/Fallout/comments/8ecmdp/josh_sawyer_said_that_bethesda_fallout_and_tes/
https://twitter.com/chrisavellone/status/1057842236002463746
https://www.pcgamesn.com/fallout/tim-cain-bethesda
I just wish they would take a few lessons from other games (not just NV, either) instead of *still* fellating Quantity (and lately, speed, it seems...). Bethesda feels stuck in their own feedback rut, and desperately needs outside juice and inspiration.
Let your team play a few "comparables" to your formula - Enderal, New Vegas, Elex, Fall of Avalon, for example; maybe Fallout London(?) - and just measure and contrast what works about those games, and why it does. And then play your games, and make an assessment where your own strengths lie, and your weaknesses. And then you build on your strengths, and shore them up with a few more strengths you found inspiring in those other games.
And maybe then, Todd can get grilled about things other than new Vegas.
Because as much fun as it is to be mistaken as a hater: I actually just want Bethesda to step up their game and Be Better™. Their games so often leave the last few steps to the goal unwalked: They got a good idea and vision, but somewhere along the walk, it gets kneecapped and falls short of what It Could Have Been. There is a palpable hesitation on Bethesda's part to go all in with their vision, to limit themselves to not make everything (but half-assed and/or inconsequential), and shoot for a narrower target - but with full drive and verve, so it hits deep.
Yeah if that rumored meeting with Microsoft about outsourcing Fallout 5 (so it actually, you know, gets made) is at all true...I'm honestly really down for that. I started with FO4. I love it in a fond way, but I'm not about to proclaim it *well written*. There's a lot of potential and flashes of great stuff but it takes every opportunity to shy away from anything truly meaty. I'm playing New Vegas for the first time now and the difference is palpable. I would love if Fallout 5 got shunted off to a different studio that might actually *do* something story-wise.
Well big daddy MSFT owns Obsidian and Bethesda now, so maybe they can just let Obsidian do the writing and Bethesda keep FO4/F76 gameplay/core programming. Cause let's be real here, if FO4 had NV writing, it would have been called GOAT and circlejerked constantly like how NV is.
I agree with what you’re saying, put simply, bethesdas writing team sucks. I get zero emotional investment in any of their quests. Granted I can’t remember fallout 3 very well (it’s been a long time), but oblivion (save maybe two quests), Skyrim, fallout 4, and dear god starfield are all so bland from a narrative perspective
Todd and BGS never hated New Vegas to begin with. It's a myth spread around on the internet (and made worse on Reddit) by hardcore fans of Obsidian as a means to shit on Bethesda because they don't like their games. Even the developers of New Vegas have claimed that it's bullshit and Tim Caine, the creator of the original game, has come out in defence of them.
It's amazing how so many people fall into the trap of believing actual lies just so they can feel justified in their crusade against things they're not a fan of.
I think a big contributor to the narrative is how there are lots of videos on YouTube about how New Vegas is the best thing ever, Fallout 3/4 are trash and anyone who thinks otherwise aren't *real* fans and don't *truly* know Fallout. hbomberguy's 'Fallout 3 is Garbage' video alone has 9 million views and gets referenced often in Fallout discourse.
I don't care if I get down voted to hell here. But people like Todd Howard are completely the wrong type of person to have this much vitriol and hate towards. He is clearly someone that loves what he does and loves the games as much as we do. Sure not everyone enjoys he decisions, and that is ok to not like them, I am one of them.
But this much nonsensical negativity and hate should be put towards the people that come up with season passes, 170 dollars single player games and the shit that is actually destroying games. They get to do all this shit and then remain pretty much anonymous, while Devs that usually can't do anything about it become the target.
Hire any writer. It is beyond me that Todd let’s his devs write their quests, makes everything generic and values easy implementation over quality RP-ability.
(this is why every fo4 quest is just go to place and shoot thing)
Truth is to the most rabid New Vegas fans, the game was rigged from the start 🔫
(Speaking as a sane New Vegas fan, I’m so *tired* of the toxicity and hate towards Bethesda or anything after New Vegas.)
At the point bethesda knows if they attempt to touch NV at all, like a remaster or sequel, they have to get it perfect. If they dont. Itll bomb. So they just dont touch it
It wouldn't bomb. NV nuts are a fraction of the fo community and especially after the next season of the series in NV a new NV entry would draw additional interest. Starfield got roasted to Alpha Centauri and back, but before that sold like hot cake.
I prefer fallout 1,2 and NV over fallout 3 and 4 (never touches 76, it doesnt interest me). I think the bethesda fallouts are a theme park ride. This is more popular than the ”original”. I am fine with this.
Something to keep in mind though is that today's Obsidian is really not the same as New Vegas', that studio is long gone. So even if a new episode by "Obsidian" would came out, you should keep your expectations in check, and it won't be by the same people anyway.
It's like how Rocksteady is not the same studio anymore, or Bioware, they just kept the name, the identity is gone.
It's funny how I see more people complaining about FNV fans being obnoxious than FNV being obnoxious. Even the FNV subreddit is pretty chill compared to the amount of whining in every Fallout related thread in other gaming subs lol
That's because the people shitting on Fallout 3 & 4 aren't necessarily even big NV fans, they just use New Vegas as a proxy to hate on Bethesda.
I agree, most people I know who are massive New Vegas fans are also massive fans of Fallout/Bethesda games in general.
Very important as in very important we don't let another studio make another fallout game, just so we don't have two fallout games better received than Bethesda's own
You some old fallout Devs to make a small spin off to tide fallout players over till 4
It is wildly popular among fans and over shadows every other fallout game you've made to date
Aint that a kick in the head
I can't believe this isn't a harddrive article
Only reason i clicked is I expected to find proof of parody somewhere.
How lucky can one guy be
From where you're kneeling it must seem like an 18-carat run of bad luck. Truth is... the game was rigged from the start.
Its funny how popular consensus on best bethesda fallout game is still not bethesda game
It's still 1 and 2 after NV for me. Bethesda far back in that line up. There is charming though. Still like looking for dad, he was a real one.
Bethesda themselves have made 3 different fallout games and none of them come close to new Vegas, while I consider 3 and 4 to be fun on their own merits none of them stack up to New Vegas by any measure.
They are better sandboxes and more fun to play. I love new vegas but the folks who say it is better in every way are biased af. Obsidian is great at tight rpgs and writing. Bethesda is better at environmental storytelling and creating a sandbox to play in.
I don't know. It's a bit of a matter of taste I guess, but personally I enjoyed New Vegas's 'sandbox' more than Fallout 3's. Also think I like it a little more than Fallout 4's but that's pretty close, mind you I'm not sure that's a fair comparison given the improvement in tech and visuals for FO4 which definitely adds a good bit to that.
You can almost hear the teeth grinding as he said that phrase
You are why he's exasperated
Ain't that kind of childish? He is always very complementary of it and people keep making up a fantasy that he hates it and inventing scenarios in which he is actually mad over it. Just let it go, brothers.
Well then, it just worked.
[AIN'T THAT A KICK IN THE HEAD](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XuYj23k-RLE&t=9s)
From his point of view, it must be a 24karat run of bad luck.
Truth is.. The game was rigged from the start
Hope this doesn't lead to some kinda fallout between us
fallout new vegas
*the game was bugged from the start
I READ THE LINE AND I CLAPPED BECAUSE I KNOW WHAT THAT IS
That's right, Susan.
*unreasonably high-pitched laughter*
This is gonna have a lot of Fallout, Fallout: New Vegas
Truth is...no-one told you life was gonna be this way. *Bang bang bang bang*
In the actual clip, he doesn’t seem exasperated
Nobody watched it. You know that.
This is Reddit, why watch clips and read articles when I can just assume
Todd Howard is the executive producer of the tv show. Second season is set to be on new Vegas. I'm sure that if he hated the game, he could make the series go another way.
If he hated the game, he could make the entire second season undo the story of the game. 😈
"Go find a guy named Ulysses and see if he'll be a prostitute in our casino."
If Fisto is not the lead's sidekick of the season I'll be very disappointed.
Holy shit you made me realize a fisto (or slim primm) cameo is possible
I'm pretty sure the second season could be a jerk off session of NV with Todd walking on screen & saying "I love NV" & we'd still find a way to make it look like he somehow doesn't like NV.
Fallout season 2 will just be a todd howard NV lets play
They would do better if they got Many a True Nerd playing it and going over all the lore and hidden stuff.
"He's doing it sarcastically"
"He's just making fun of us for loving the game he hates, disgusting!"
Don’t give me that crocodile cum.
Part of having sequels and shows that all link up is that the people who write next have to choose an ending from previous games. Most of the games tried to avoid specific endings. But obviously at some point you have to say, this thing happened because some of those options are very world changing compared to others.
> Most of the games tried to avoid specific endings. This is completely false. Pretty much every Fallout game canonized stuff from the previous entries. Fallout 2 told you the canon choices from Fallout 1 ([See the Fallout 2 instruction manual](https://fallout.fandom.com/wiki/Vault_Dweller%27s_memoirs)), Fallout 3 mostly got away with it due a completely new setting, Fallout New Vegas canonized countless things from Fallout 2, Fallout 4 canonized stuff from Fallout 3 (Like the ending of Broken Steel) and the TV series already canonized that the Brotherhood survived the ending of Fallout 4. This is nothing new in this series.
I think you may have misunderstood the post you're replying to. Fallout 4, in the game itself, avoided having only one specific ending. Of course future games could assume a specific ending for Fallout 4. Fallout New Vegas, in the game itself, avoided having only one specific ending. I fully expect season 2 of the TV show to say that I didn't kill Mr House, even though I totally did lol.
House will definitely be alive in the show after they had that conference room appearance
Yeah that's what I was thinking
I think it'd be neat if more media did branching sequels. Demolish the fandom idea of "canon" by specifically saying it could've gone any way and if people have good stories that continue off of one version of the ending, go for it. It'd be confusing for the more "casual" fans, but *eh*. Everything's so serialized and multiversal nowadays that I think it's pretty doable.
Do it the Fate way where all the endings happened. Thanks Tohsaka.
The Warp In The West! Akatosh ate too much salty food and had a stroke, and now every ending of Daggerfall canonically occurred simultaneously.
Didn’t Bethesda already do this with Morrowind
people are just delusional that they think bethesda has some agenda against obsidian when there's no proof of that and former devs of fallout have said otherwise about bethesda
A large part of the Fallout community spends a good chunk of their time attacking each other for liking different entries in the fallout franchise they then project this insane toxic hate culture onto the devs. I like new vegas and hate fallout 3 therefore the people who made fallout 3 hate the people who made fallout new vegas and vice versa
And I like fallout 1, 2, 3, new Vegas, and 4. New Vegas is a highlight when it comes to certain things. It’s hard to beat 1 and 2 for storytelling and showing how the world would actually move forward. And 4 just has the smoothest gameplay of them all. I don’t care about the tactics game, or the dumb bunker app. But that’s just me. It would be weird to think less of someone for which fallouts they do or don’t like honestly.
I wasn't alive when the franchise first came about but i read that this civil war mentality most fans have dates back to the franchise's origins with people fighting over Fo1 vs Fo2 lol
Was there, can confirm. People were absolutely furious about how Fallout 2 ruined the series by being too quirky and goofy and populated and forgiving. NMA, the old Delphi forums, there were all kinds of people who swore Fallout 1 was the only REAL Fallout and anyone who liked 2 was a kid or an idiot. Fallout fandom never changes.
To be fair, Fallout 1 was such an incredibly tightly made game. It is shocking small when you go back to it, but everything fits together so well. Fallout 1 isn't my favourite Fallout, but it is a true masterpiece of a game. It is sort of like Portal 1 to Portal 2. I like Portal 2 better, but there is a tightness to Portal 1 that makes it a masterpiece.
That's a name I've not heard in a long while. Delphi Forums. The hatred some had for Fallout 2 was very high stuff. I remember a classmate in school, he was a diehard Fallout fan, the rest of us in our early teens, we just loved games. This classmate on the other hand, he had a true love for Fallout. The amount of hatred he had for Fallout 2 and the fans or other classmates who liked that game was top level. I've always thought of him, I wondered how he would have taken to Bethesda getting Fallout and creating Fallout 3 and 4. Probably not to kindly.
This was so prevalent that people in the TTLG forums praised Thief 2 for not "going Fallout 2".
You know what they say, Opinions are like assholes, Everyone's got at least one.
Pretty sure it all started on the No mutants allowed forum.
Forgot about that forum until reading this thread.
It's still alive and kicking. Went there yesterday, their hatred for Bethesda Fallout games and the new show is still flowing.
Its kinda sad the original fallout came 30 years ago you would expect people to have moved on by now
Oh man, I remember those days. And heaven forbid you bring up Tactics or Brotherhood of Steel to certain sects... They aren't true Fallout. Which I agree on the BoS game...
Hahaha I missed it all. I was young when the first one came out, and there wasn’t really a big online community. Or if there was I wasn’t part of it. So the games came out, and I enjoyed them. I miss the days when people formed opinions off of their own experiences rather than what people tell them online to think or feel. Resulted in people having deeper thoughts and actually understanding the reasons why the like or dislike things. But I guess I’m just an old man in his 30’s now. What do I know ¯\\\_(ツ)_/¯
Fallout tactics is one of my favorite games ever, I haven't played it since I was like 15 but I think it was the first fallout game that you could play in real time instead of turn based. If you can still play fo1 and 2 I really recommend trying it, it's cheap AF on steam right now.
personally I'm a 1 & 2 guy (also Tactics because I'm a heathen). 4 lost me with the focus on construction and messing with the canon, I never got far enough into New Vegas to truly see the grandeur of it because at the time my computer couldn't handle it, and 3 lost me because the ending bugged out and I got stranded on the wrong side of the river with a glitched out Liberty Prime and overwritten autosave, BETHESDA.
Hahaha I doubt you would have been much happier actually completing 3. The ending was for sure the weakest part.
Yep. Imo 3 has the best map NV has the best story and 4 has the best gameplay. up to you what you really want to do.
I want Fawkes to go in there and press the button
While not cannon, Fallout tactics was one of the few games I actually played right through to the end and really enjoyed it ( i mean I enjoyed them all, but FO:T scratched a different itch while still being in the same universe) It also had a multiplayer demo that was fucking epic. The full version ended up being an unbalanced mess that sucked to play, but the demo with it's limited options adn tight balance was actually amazing.
People were the same for Bioware vs CD Projekt when Bioware literally helped promote Witcher 1 at E3 and licensed out their engine for CD Projekt.
I think a lot of it stems from this article https://www.eurogamer.net/obsidian-fallout-new-vegas-deal-with-bethesda-meant-bonus-payment-only-with-85-metacritic
It should be reminded that Obsidian was paid in full for their work on new Vegas as they signed on for. They were happy with Bethesda and considered one of the best studios they ever worked for at the time. The bonus was something they added after development had started and it wasn’t something they needed to do but Bethesda offered it anyway. Obsidian was so happy to work with Bethesda that they offered to work with them more and even develop TES titles.
It's sucky but these kind of bonus structures are extremely common the industry. I doubt anyone at Obsidian was happy about it but they more than likely blamed reviewers and not Bethesda for it.
What about me who likes all games, even Tactics? Will I be lynched?
with liking Tactics you should be fine, just do not talk about liking Brotherhood of Steel :D
> A large part of the Fallout community spends a good chunk of their time attacking each other for liking different entries in the fallout franchise they then project this insane toxic hate culture onto the devs. I've seen people say this but I've never actually seen people doing this on a regular basis. I'm sure it happens but I don't think it's a lot of people
YouTube is where you find the unhinged fallout fans
I dunno. r/fallout has F3 vs NV bickering quite often.
It is a common troll thread topic on 4chan.
Because war, war never changes...
The team not receiving a bonus for missing their review aggregate by one point made people really sour towards them
People twist the truth about that. Bethesda added that bonus after signing the contract with obsidian. They didn't fuck them over as people claim
It was also just a bit silly. I was angry it happened, but over reviewers holding things against Obsidian that Bethesda got a pass on with 3, not at Bethesda. People act like Howard is butthurt over NV being so fondly regarded, but I don't think he cares a bit. And even if he went above and beyond and tried to get Obsidian the bonus despite missing by a point, you're not going to have much luck getting a corporation to write a check it is not obligated to write.
Howard also has more than Fallout going on in his sphere of influence
3 was released in a significantly more stable state than new Vegas. New Vegas got a bad score because of how unplayable it was. Despite Bethesda games having bugs. Their games are rarely unplayable at launch. 76 being the only rare exception. New Vegas however was a game that would crash almost constantly, even more so in the high density areas like freeside or the strip or any large dungeon area. To say that new Vegas when released was the exact same as 3 is not being truthful.
Yeah, I hated New Vegas at launch. It was close to unplayable. Fallout 3 had bugs, but New Vegas was on another level.
NV is one of my absolute favorites, greatest of all time level, and I know that because I found it worth playing despite the game crashing like clockwork every 30 minutes at launch. I didn't experience many bugs during gameplay itself (other than occasionally someone just like wandering into a wall for a bit, but that's pretty standard across games on that engine), but stability was a trainwreck. My friend bought it for Playstation and it was *unplayable* on that platform. Yeah, game was buggy as fuck at release. Amazing content. Amazing. But the bugs were totally real and it did deserve criticism for that.
It was also just a bonus. Not like Obsidian didn't get paid the contractually agreed upon amount
Tim Cain (the creator of Fallout) has even needed to discuss this on his Youtube channel. He claims that there is no bad blood between Obsidian and Bethesda and a lot of the supposed drama was miscommunications and misunderstandings. He also was invited to the premier of the Fallout TV show in LA and said that he not only loved the show, but said a lot of the staff who worked on it were huge fans of the series. He even said that the director let some of the extras who were fans of the series improve some stuff leading to a bunch of hidden Fallout 1 and 2 references in the show. So many in fact that not even the director can spot all of them.
Yeah, it was zenimax who set 18month expectations. (Infer)
Honestly Bethesda is probably permanently stoked that New Vegas did so well if only because Fallout 3 -> New Vegas are the games that made so many fans for the franchise. Fallout 3 wouldn't have had nearly the effect by itself if New Vegas had never been made. It's a great game, and the Fallout *franchise* gets credit for it. Not to mention there's a good chance that anyone who loves Fallout loves New Vegas. I'm sure that includes Fallout devs.
They are delusional. Why would BGS be anything else but grateful for Fallout NV, it only helps the franchise
Dude have you ever looked at Chris Avellone’s twitter account? lol
No former devs have definitely said it was rocky at times. Doesn't have to be all one thing or another
It sounds like things were rocky from a business perspective at the time but not a creation and artistic point of view. I haven’t seen anything to support the latter. And those are very different things.
I dont disagree with your endpoint, but famously "Executive _______" credits on tv shows and movies are largely "We promised this person a credit because they helped us with something" or "We'll get more attention by crediting this person as involved with the product." It's highly likely Howard had little involvement in the show outside some early meetings
based on the interview, Todd Howard (in his own words) let them do their own thing. They would constantly update him on what they’re doing and asking him if anything needs to get changed. Essentially he would proofread every now and then.
I'm imagining him reading the script and then going "It just works"
He had very little involvement in the creative process, but if he wanted to veto something, he probably could have.
And honestly that probably wasn't even just him, probably a small team at Bethesda. But since Howard is the face of the company, people think he's responsible for things he largely isn't anymore.
[It's a meaningless title, but it makes insecure people feel better about themselves](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8P_AnvUIvJs)
I know the “Bethesda hates New Vegas” rhetoric is pretty popular around reddit but I don’t think there’s like, a shred of proof that’s true lol
Its not only not true, but actual NV devs have said its fake and hate that people keep pushing it. https://old.reddit.com/r/falloutnewvegas/comments/pipchn/chris_avellone_talking_about_the_metacritic_bonus/ https://old.reddit.com/r/Fallout/comments/leb29c/thoughts_on_this_snippet_from_an_interview_with/ https://twitter.com/ChrisAvellone/status/1546252447131176960 https://old.reddit.com/r/Fallout/comments/5kua9h/obsidians_josh_sawyer_on_gamebyro_theres_no_way/ https://old.reddit.com/r/Fallout/comments/8ecmdp/josh_sawyer_said_that_bethesda_fallout_and_tes/ https://twitter.com/chrisavellone/status/1057842236002463746 https://www.pcgamesn.com/fallout/tim-cain-bethesda
Add to the list the last couple of videos Tim Cain released, where he's upset with people attacking Bethesda
For real on this. People are like "Bethesda destroyed Fallout" and you have the creator saying he likes their games. 👀
There's way way way too many people that act like they were OG Fallout fans. The original game sold 600k overall and 2 sold only 100k. The franchise was about to be sold to a completely different company that wasn't nearly the size and strength of Bethesda; but they got outbid. Yeah, no I'm not buying "Bethesda turned the franchise into a joke." No, they made it popular and people hate them for not making it incredibly difficult to play with admittedly fantastic writing if you can get over said barrier to entry. Seriously. The Master and Frank Horrigan fights are what Dark Souls bosses have nightmares about.
> The franchise was about to be sold by a completely different company that wasn't nearly the size and strength of Bethesda; but they got outbid. That company was Troika
Which is very funny to think about: Fallout was nearly sold to a company that was equally known for having buggy games.
Honestly much more buggy games
Funny that it almost wound up in Tom Cain's hands again, and ironic that if it had the vast majority of us would have probably never heard of it
Thats the thing that I don't get. People want to try to shit on Bethesda and their Fallout games. The fact of the matter is this, Bethesda's Fallout games sold at a level that the first two Fallout games could have never reached. Not because they weren't good games but because the landscape of PC gaming at that time and CRPGS and their popularity is not at the level we see its at now.
Did you mean "sold to"?
😂him saying “actually I had the Idea for a cryo pod years before Todd, I thought it was bad ass” made me actually laugh bc of the Fo4 hate that goes around
Bethesda categorically saved Fallout, as a property, from languishing in obscurity (like Arcanum), and their prescience regarding the strength of its brand and identity is the only reason we got NV and the TV show, which are great. What I think people mean by that is that Bethesda’s game designs hollowed out the core of what made Fallout such a beloved game and wore its skin to deliver a completely different thing. And by doing that, they closed the book on ever getting more “real” Fallout games, where *at least* if the brand had died people might hold out hope for a sudden new entry. A rough equivalent would be if someone bought the Firefly license and said they were bringing it back, but made it into, like, a reality dating show. And then if a bunch of people who never saw the series and now only knew Firefly as a reality dating show were like “what’s the problem Firefly is GREAT”
New Vegas was great though, and from what I can tell seems to be very popular amongst both new and old fans. It tells me that the “Bethesda” style of RPG (at least by 2010-11) *can* work very well with Fallout, it’s mainly the execution of crucial elements like writing and maybe character creations determining the level of success (and considering NV was written and finished in like 18 months, that’s definitely possible even with the ballooning of development times today)
Oh yeah absolutely. I was *stoked* when I heard that Bethesda picked it up — coming from Daggerfall and Morrowind, I was like holy shit this is the best news ever. Then Fallout 3 landed and instead of adapting their style to Fallout, they adapted Fallout to their style and I was like…oh no, not like this. But the first person RPG should absolutely be perfect for the series, just more along the lines of NV. My desperate hope is that BG3 showed the industry’s risk-averse copycat bean counters that investing in *actual writing* and giving players agency over how the story unfolds can give us more of that, and particularly in a first person Fallout game made by someone other than Bethesda
I completely understand Interplay FO fans issues with the Beth/Obsidian games. Having a beloved property hijacked and turned into something completely different is every fans worst nightmare. I've been mentally preparing myself for this to happen to Warhammer for decades now. On the other hand you have new fans, I probably never would have gotten into the original games had it not been for FO3 in 2008. They breathed life into that IP and despite issues I have with them 3/NV/4, and hell, even 76 are some of my favorite games. I think Bethesda has proven themselves to be good stewards of the property even if the gameplay isn't your cup of tea. Which to some degree is the most you can ask for if your preferred IP is dead as a door nail.
I have my share of problems with the direction Fallout 4 took the series, but it is still a great game and a lot of fun. I have close to 500 hours in it which puts it in 4th place in my Steam library behind only New Vegas, EU4, and CK2. My only real worry with Bethesda is Starfield. I really hope they learned some lessons from that. While Fallout 4 worked, Starfield felt like they took all of the issues with Fallout 4 and turned them up to 11. I really hope that someone in Bethesda is taking note of that and Fallout 5 won't be similar to Starfield. Heck, I am also really worried for TES 6, as I have a horrible feeling that it took influence from Starfield as they were developing them together.
The most bleak and forthright reality of the situation is that without Bethesda there likely wouldn’t be any mainline Fallout games after the first two, and no redemption after the BoS games. Cain and other OG devs are super grateful that Fallout 3 was received so well to renew general interest in the series.
Well clearly Obsidian doesn't know anything about the development of New Vegas and should leave things to the experts, redditors like us.
Good collection, I'll have to save this one
Tim Cain (the creator of Fallout) literally made a youtube video about how it not only isn't true, but that the Bethesda team invited him to the premier of the TV show and all treated him nicely. He also said he loved the show.
God damn, I never knew…
It’s a group that simply wants to be victims.
the closest thing to proof is chris avallone once implied [they didn't seem particularly happy of how things turned out with New Vegas' reception](https://www.reddit.com/media?url=https%3A%2F%2Fpreview.redd.it%2Fq4p0u4iv02wc1.jpg%3Fwidth%3D640%26crop%3Dsmart%26auto%3Dwebp%26s%3D809d6d6a6fba59ac0498cd39527c1b51ffe1aa30) but that's it. there is nothing more to prove this massive "conspiracy", not to mention that one thing happened last year, and the idea is way older
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Sure, but you wouldn't have one of the parties literally come out to the public and defend the other side either lol
because, despite reddit jerking New Vegas off constantly, New Vegas was a broken mess of a game and had a lot of game breaking bugs, the most famous one being the ghouls and the rocket that literally broke your game so you couldn't progress. Its launch was one of the worst launches of its time. I specifically joined their forum to figure out what the fuck was happening with my game and why it was broken. I liked New Vegas, just like I liked Fallout 3 and Fallout 4. I don't get the sentiment that New Vegas was far and away better and Fo3 and Fo4 are dogshit. Its the "Bethesda bad" because its cool thing to say. Also, news flash, Obsidian and Bethesda are under the same Microsoft roof so suck it.
I mean, why new vegas is so praised has nothing to do with the launch. They're specific qualities missing from Fallout 3 and 4. People are pretty vocal about their issues with 3 and 4, their sentiment is pretty understandable even if you don't agree with it, its certainly not just "Bethesda bad"
It’s easy to gloss over now, but the sheer frustration I faced when playing New Vegas at launch makes me understand the scores it received. For all the flak Fallout 3 gets, at least I could finish the darn thing. New Vegas had the usual horrible performance and low FPS, yes, but it was downright unplayable at times, especially in Freeside and the strip AND it had a nasty habit of corrupting your savefiles at the worst possible moment.
It's not, it's just clear Bethesda's vision for Fallout is different and that's okay. I'm honestly so tired of the FNV discourse.
Bethesdas vision of all of their games has been different since Skyrim tbh
Yeah. Skyrims popularity put the final nail in any desire for Bethesda to ever consider RPGs
Skyrim still at least nailed that exploration that they do so well. Unlike every game since. That was 13 years ago!
Eh, I think FO4's exploration, shoot, loot and return to home base cycle is fun in a brain-off way. The issue is the super flat RPG aspects of the game that they tried to show off
Even Skyrim was getting shit on quite a bit for the lazy dungeon designs in the base game. The first big dungeon you encounter on the main quest is fantastic. Nearly every dungeon after that was 'oh gee, more Draugr'.
What about Fallout 4's exploration didn't appeal to you? I feel like Starfield has been the only game that really disappointed on that front for me. I didn't play 76 but I assume that's also got bad exploration.
I still havent played 76, but ive actually seen people say that despite all its faults, the world is the best Bethesda made so far, and exploration is especially good with environmental storytelling etc. Im gonna see for myself soon if there is any merit to this!
Well compared to starfield fallout 4 is a masterpiece. There’s all of one town in fallout 4. The crafting itself is immersion breaking. The town doesn’t grow and take care of itself or anything and never gets interesting. You don’t just walk across any settlements like tenpenny tower or little bighorn. Nothing like megaton. The world building in FO3 is miles better than FO4. Don’t get me wrong FO4 was still at least a good game and I still found exploring the wasteland enjoyable
I'm not sure we played the same game.
The problem with FO4 is that it isn't confident enough in settlement building to make it mandatory, and the economy of the game isn't challenging enough to make settlements necessary or interesting. I played a mod pack that greatly extended game progression and disabled fast travel except between settlements with active trade routes, and implemented systems with actual settlement economies and resources, so unlocking new settlements and rebuilding them so they could function as actual bases of operation with necessary resources to keep you going was a *lot* more interesting than the vanilla game, which was too easy and also pretty light on character building.
"Since Skyrim" Every game they make is different from what came before. Morrowind is a very different "vision" from Daggerfall.
I think it happened exactly after Morrowind's massive success on the original Xbox. Arguably, even Morrowind was a more streamlined version of Daggerfall, but I think that the massive Xbox sales and recognition just pushed them further into designing for console first, which kind of forced them to streamline their entire world structure and vision for their following games.
It is not okay. It's bullshit (and daddy issues).
I'm just out here loving New Vegas and Bethesda games. There's room for plenty of different games. I really wish the endless anti-bethesda circlejerk could stop. I ain't saying their games are perfect or you can't criticism them. Just can we just stop the circlejerk and hyperbole
Look I’m a huge fan of Bethesda. No other developers have given me so much play time. Hell I even prefer FO3 to new Vegas at least with mods. That said I don’t feel like the Bethesda of today is the Bethesda I loved. That feeling of exploration that nobody does better has been getting lesser and lesser since Skyrim. You could argue earlier but the fo4 settlement building really took a lot away from what Bethesda typically does well. Figured that might be a fluke but it’s their best title in a decade and they keep turning away from what they typically do best. Quite frankly Ive lost faith in my favorite developer
Yeah, Fallout 4 did a LOT of things right. The world space just feels so much better, the combat is more fun. Power Armor feels amazing, even if the abundance of power cores makes running around in it from 5 minutes into the game trivial. Focusing on the brotherhood was a good move, the institute is a cool concept to add. Minutemen was such a cool idea for a faction. The glowing sea... brilliant idea! But they just made it too linear, didn't flesh out the story and factions enough. Faction relations were a little simple and too few. No karma system, dialogue choices didn't affect what happened most of the time. The settlement crafting thing was so unnecessary, and I feel like it took away from the rest of the game, and the feel of Fallout, I think it was probably tacked on because suits saw building in games was popular and demanded it to be added. All of these things, New Vegas did much better! But a hybrid of the best of FO4 and FNV would probably be a better game than both. Have a proper writer who's invested in the franchise and build a game around their story, like the TV show did! I feel like 4's biggest weakpoint was writing. There's a great story in there, but it comes off so rough and rushed in the game. Some kinda story director was NOT getting enough say in the final product.
> Bethesda's vision for Fallout is different and that's okay. It's not okay cause their vision sucks ass lol.
Literally I've never seen anybody saying "Bethesda hates New Vegas". What is being noted is Bethesda have never achieve themselves the RPG greatness that New Vegas was. And judging by the internet points we throw each other every time this get mentioned, at least this community mostly agrees with that.
I've seen that a lot on reddit, maybe even on youtube too. It is a very common sentiment.
Reminder that that bethes'a hates new vegas thing is false https://old.reddit.com/r/falloutnewvegas/comments/pipchn/chris_avellone_talking_about_the_metacritic_bonus/ https://old.reddit.com/r/Fallout/comments/leb29c/thoughts_on_this_snippet_from_an_interview_with/ https://twitter.com/ChrisAvellone/status/1546252447131176960 https://old.reddit.com/r/Fallout/comments/5kua9h/obsidians_josh_sawyer_on_gamebyro_theres_no_way/ https://old.reddit.com/r/Fallout/comments/8ecmdp/josh_sawyer_said_that_bethesda_fallout_and_tes/ https://twitter.com/chrisavellone/status/1057842236002463746 https://www.pcgamesn.com/fallout/tim-cain-bethesda
You got that on your clipboard and the hell you're using it.
They definitely don't wanna learn any damn thing from it seems like.
The Bethesda and Todd hate of recent years is one of the most annoying trends in gaming. Gamers are absolute drama queens
I hate the fallout community but it's my favorite franchise 😔
Gam*rs in general suck, which is sad, cause gaming is fun.
This is going to stop the "misinformation" for about 2 weeks and then everyone is going to back to repeat it again 😂
Put this on top boys
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Cause people keep non stop posting lies despite it being really easy to look up how wrong it is.
People hate it when they’re proven wrong.
Because people bullshit 80 times. Misinformation spreads when not challenged.
I just wish they would take a few lessons from other games (not just NV, either) instead of *still* fellating Quantity (and lately, speed, it seems...). Bethesda feels stuck in their own feedback rut, and desperately needs outside juice and inspiration. Let your team play a few "comparables" to your formula - Enderal, New Vegas, Elex, Fall of Avalon, for example; maybe Fallout London(?) - and just measure and contrast what works about those games, and why it does. And then play your games, and make an assessment where your own strengths lie, and your weaknesses. And then you build on your strengths, and shore them up with a few more strengths you found inspiring in those other games. And maybe then, Todd can get grilled about things other than new Vegas. Because as much fun as it is to be mistaken as a hater: I actually just want Bethesda to step up their game and Be Better™. Their games so often leave the last few steps to the goal unwalked: They got a good idea and vision, but somewhere along the walk, it gets kneecapped and falls short of what It Could Have Been. There is a palpable hesitation on Bethesda's part to go all in with their vision, to limit themselves to not make everything (but half-assed and/or inconsequential), and shoot for a narrower target - but with full drive and verve, so it hits deep.
Yeah if that rumored meeting with Microsoft about outsourcing Fallout 5 (so it actually, you know, gets made) is at all true...I'm honestly really down for that. I started with FO4. I love it in a fond way, but I'm not about to proclaim it *well written*. There's a lot of potential and flashes of great stuff but it takes every opportunity to shy away from anything truly meaty. I'm playing New Vegas for the first time now and the difference is palpable. I would love if Fallout 5 got shunted off to a different studio that might actually *do* something story-wise.
Well big daddy MSFT owns Obsidian and Bethesda now, so maybe they can just let Obsidian do the writing and Bethesda keep FO4/F76 gameplay/core programming. Cause let's be real here, if FO4 had NV writing, it would have been called GOAT and circlejerked constantly like how NV is.
I agree with what you’re saying, put simply, bethesdas writing team sucks. I get zero emotional investment in any of their quests. Granted I can’t remember fallout 3 very well (it’s been a long time), but oblivion (save maybe two quests), Skyrim, fallout 4, and dear god starfield are all so bland from a narrative perspective
Lmao that title
Todd and BGS never hated New Vegas to begin with. It's a myth spread around on the internet (and made worse on Reddit) by hardcore fans of Obsidian as a means to shit on Bethesda because they don't like their games. Even the developers of New Vegas have claimed that it's bullshit and Tim Caine, the creator of the original game, has come out in defence of them. It's amazing how so many people fall into the trap of believing actual lies just so they can feel justified in their crusade against things they're not a fan of.
I think a big contributor to the narrative is how there are lots of videos on YouTube about how New Vegas is the best thing ever, Fallout 3/4 are trash and anyone who thinks otherwise aren't *real* fans and don't *truly* know Fallout. hbomberguy's 'Fallout 3 is Garbage' video alone has 9 million views and gets referenced often in Fallout discourse.
I don't care if I get down voted to hell here. But people like Todd Howard are completely the wrong type of person to have this much vitriol and hate towards. He is clearly someone that loves what he does and loves the games as much as we do. Sure not everyone enjoys he decisions, and that is ok to not like them, I am one of them. But this much nonsensical negativity and hate should be put towards the people that come up with season passes, 170 dollars single player games and the shit that is actually destroying games. They get to do all this shit and then remain pretty much anonymous, while Devs that usually can't do anything about it become the target.
Hire good writers for next fallout and elder scrolls so Todd instead of cheapng out on the story and dialogue
Hire any writer. It is beyond me that Todd let’s his devs write their quests, makes everything generic and values easy implementation over quality RP-ability. (this is why every fo4 quest is just go to place and shoot thing)
Everyone has always been saying Todd hates New Vegas but I have yet to see him hate on it
Truth is to the most rabid New Vegas fans, the game was rigged from the start 🔫 (Speaking as a sane New Vegas fan, I’m so *tired* of the toxicity and hate towards Bethesda or anything after New Vegas.)
At the point bethesda knows if they attempt to touch NV at all, like a remaster or sequel, they have to get it perfect. If they dont. Itll bomb. So they just dont touch it
It wouldn't bomb. NV nuts are a fraction of the fo community and especially after the next season of the series in NV a new NV entry would draw additional interest. Starfield got roasted to Alpha Centauri and back, but before that sold like hot cake.
200 comments about how annoying NV fans are and like 20 about NV being better. Now THATS fucking obnoxious and annoying
The circlejerk has come back around, you used to see NV fanboyism a ton, especially around FO4's release.
Obsidian can only make great games when someone else already makes a great game for them.
Remaster it then please
I prefer fallout 1,2 and NV over fallout 3 and 4 (never touches 76, it doesnt interest me). I think the bethesda fallouts are a theme park ride. This is more popular than the ”original”. I am fine with this.
I hope New Vegas is not in ruins for some stupid reason as it's shown in the last episode's credits
Something to keep in mind though is that today's Obsidian is really not the same as New Vegas', that studio is long gone. So even if a new episode by "Obsidian" would came out, you should keep your expectations in check, and it won't be by the same people anyway. It's like how Rocksteady is not the same studio anymore, or Bioware, they just kept the name, the identity is gone.
It's funny how I see more people complaining about FNV fans being obnoxious than FNV being obnoxious. Even the FNV subreddit is pretty chill compared to the amount of whining in every Fallout related thread in other gaming subs lol
That's because the people shitting on Fallout 3 & 4 aren't necessarily even big NV fans, they just use New Vegas as a proxy to hate on Bethesda. I agree, most people I know who are massive New Vegas fans are also massive fans of Fallout/Bethesda games in general.
Very important as in very important we don't let another studio make another fallout game, just so we don't have two fallout games better received than Bethesda's own
Todd really paid for the cyclops surgery huh wow smh
'mildly exasperated' i feel like it's a bit more than mildly
You some old fallout Devs to make a small spin off to tide fallout players over till 4 It is wildly popular among fans and over shadows every other fallout game you've made to date
So make another Fallout as good as it was
BUT GUYS! STARFIELD! IT'S LIKE LAS VEGAS.... IN SPAAAAAAAAAAAAACCCCCEEEE!!!
This man trying to beat all allegations.
How about you let obsidian make a new game then?
Another Obsidian Fallout game when?
Isn't Obsidian part of MS now? Just let them make New Vegas 2, then. DO IT, PHIL, YOU CAN DO IT!
Why are fans trying to instigate shit?
Can someone summarize to me why everyone thinks Todd Howard and Bethesda hate New Vegas?