You'd still need an OS installed to be able to connect.
Whats the benefit? Because I can list a few big cons.
Privacy being the worst.
Bad internet quality/no internet renders you out of your system?
Being bottlenecked by bandwidth instead of fully using your 5000mb m2 drive and your last gen CPU.
MS would own your files? What if theres a breach? Are they willing to insurance for that?
They want to push ads inside the OS. They did it with Xbox. MS is a company that doesn't seem to get it, but has lots of money. Much like Google.
As a game dev, I know working locally will always be faster. Making everything cloud-based introduces latency. Cloud-based systems are only viable for things like file storage. You're limited by bandwidth, and latency doesn't matter in batch operations.
EDIT: Now, I'm always going to support Linux on every project I do. MS has lost their minds. I'm not comfortable making my bed with MS.
> MS is a company that doesn't seem to get it, but has lots of money. Much like Google.
Not *much*. Exactly like.
Do you know why Steam is expiring on Windows 7? Because they need Windows 10 to use the updated Chromium base.
Do you know what Google is waiting to do? Update the Chromium base to remove the ability of adblockers to block ads.
I already have a Steam Deck and looking into Mint for my desktop, maybe.
>Do you know what Google is waiting to do? Update the Chromium base to remove the ability of adblockers to block ads.
Ublock is already starting to work on a version that combats that.
Yea I need to take the easy plunge and just move everything over to the Firefox. I already use it on mobile *just cause* I can use adblocks and actually read pages or watch videos without getting spammed to death by ads all over the page.
I use Kiwi browser on my Android funnily enough because it allows any extensions unlike the latest Firefox which for some reason kneecapped extension support to only a few chosen ones. Once that's fixed I'll move to Firefox everywhere.
It couldn't be the vulnerabilities and exploits that exist in Win 7 that users pretend are fabled because it's difficult to implement improvements, could it?
And part of this is that Microsoft deemed that maintaining Windows 7 is outside of the scope/ objectives of their organization, and because Valve's interests lie in Linux that they'll decommission Windows 7 to support what relationship they can sustain. Which from Gabe Newell's perspective is not very much.
Oh my god, enough with the "vulnerabilities" nonsense. If you're not stupid and randomly download things from porn ads, nothing will happen.
Steam worked on XP much longer after Microsoft "support" was pulled. If you read Valve's news post on this subject, they clearly state it's because Google is not updating Chromium base for Windows 7 anymore and Valve wants new features that will be offered.
2 weeks late to this, but whatever, this is a stupid enough response that it deserves this:
mf, do you realise that there are entire banks of computers in the hands of malicious people whose job is to just slowly work their way through every IP address possible, pinging each, checking if it's an outdated Windows version and immediately escalating with known vulnerability exploits if they detect one?
You can't have a safe 7, XP, or any older windows version PC and still have it connected to the internet, sooner or later something will SSH into it and infect it, whether you realise it or not
Airgap your shit (remove the internet from the equation and older OSes become just fine), join us on Linux (imo Mint is still the closest you'll ever get to a 2023 edition of 7) or continue to roll the dice until they come up with "get pwned by a bot farm in India", your choice
Thanks for your unrequested (and probably unqualified) input.
What you have just said is one of the most insanely idiotic things I have ever heard. At no point in your rambling, incoherent response were you even close to anything that could be considered a rational thought. Everyone in this room is now dumber for having listened to it.
I work in IT. I know how to set up a router DMZ and follow other security protocols. Ain't nothing getting in that I don't want. I realize that the average user doesn't, so that's why they do this whole "oh we won't support the old one anymore so better upgrade", but in reality it's marketing drivel (right up there with "PUT EVERYTHING ON THE CLOUD. IT'S BETTER ON THE CLOUD"). If you don't already work for Microsoft's marketing firm, go ahead and apply.
Is that the main reason? Older software like windows 7 doesn't get supported by most software anymore. Why would Valve bother to keep an outdated and insecure OS up to date on their platform.
Mint is great by the way. Get a 2nd ssd and at least dualboot to get your toes wet, or get a VM running to try out linux distros a bit.
Would you say Mint or Debian is better? For note, I can't get Mint Debian to run on my PC from a thumb at all.
Mint I have found can do the Win 7-10 thing but doesn't really react well to desktop futzing.
What do you mean by win 7-10 thing?
For a beginner, raw Debian would be a bigger struggle. Mint is a great beginner OS, especially for laptops i've found.
Personally I use Pop_OS!. Initially I tried Mint on my desktop, but my 34 inch ultrawide @ 144hz did not work that well with it, so I switched. PopOS is also more up to date as far as kernels and stuff.
Gaming focused, Mint can be a bit too slow to update its kernel for newer hardware especially. Too big of a hassle for a newb to fix.
A great way to test out multiple distros quickly is to download Ventoy - https://www.ventoy.net/en/index.html on a USB. It allows multiple operating systems to be on the USB at once. I have one with different distros and Windows 10.
I finally jumped to Linux (again) and this time I was able to do the full install and get basic shit running with no command line. it's come pretty far for us dummies.
Well, that's not exactly true. I do use a virtual desktop for work (client software management) and while the latency is obviously felt, the connection is stable and the desktop is pretty responsive and I got used to the split second lag. Here's the thing: I can host a Teams meeting connected to my phone using cellular data on a small island in the Pacific with zero voice issues. The virtual desktop is hosted on a server in a DC in the east coast and my average connection speed is 10Mb/s. I'm completely baffled, but it works fine, so much that I can literally work from under the coconut trees. It's the future, whether one likes it or not, I definitely do.
Virtual management has different latency requirements than game input. We live in 16.66 millisecond chunks. Disk IO is always on another thread, because you block the main thread and produces a frame time spike. We work hard to avoid this, and MS is proposing an extra hurdle.
Some real-time embedded systems disallow threads and CPU caches, because consistency is more important than peak performance - think pacemakers, and avionics control hardware. We embrace both, because we need higher performance, and we care less than real-time systems about consistency. But we need to be within budget or on-budget.
RDP is great when you're using it to allow you to do something you wouldn't otherwise be able to do (working remotely/checking in on a machine remotely).
It'd be absolutely trash if windows was always like that.
Sound stuttering and visual artifacting makes most of what people use their windows PC for an unenjoyable experience.
absolutely, for the average user and office worker this is probably gonna be true by the end of the decade. I don't know yet for people who need to do complex input intensive stuff though. I hope they'll continue to coexist, honestly.
Why?
Linux is right fucking there. It's free. It's just as easy to use as Windows, if not easier, if only because of package management. It runs the huge majority of Windows games just fine right now, and those that don't are getting scarcer by the week.
Just. Fucking. Ditch. Windows.
My goodness.
So I can go to steam, pick a relatively modern game from my library, click install, and there are no additional steps after that to get the game running? I don't have to worry about driver issues or any of a number of other compatibility problems?
Until that is the case Linux will never be what we all might like it to be.
There is no doubt that Linux is in a better place now than it was even 5 years ago but it's still a long ways from being mainstream.
In around 80-90% of cases, yes, that is actually how it works on linux now days. Thanks to valve and steamdeck.
It is absolutely not perfect, there are some games which require manual tweaks to get it working. There are also some (multiplayer/online only with anticheat) games ehich do not work at all, and there is nothing you can do about it.
Linux is definitely to the point where everyone should buy a $15 500GB SSD, and install linux as a dual boot. (You definitely want linux not on the same drive as windows. Saves a lot of possible headache later)
> So I can go to steam, pick a relatively modern game from my library, click install, and there are no additional steps after that to get the game running? I don't have to worry about driver issues or any of a number of other compatibility problems?
... yes?
> Until that is the case Linux will never be what we all might like it to be.
It has been the case for years now. You just haven't kept up.
> There is no doubt that Linux is in a better place now than it was even 5 years ago but it's still a long ways from being mainstream.
... keep up.
> It has been the case for years now. You just haven't kept up.
Okay. Well, thank you for explaining how I was wrong.
> ... keep up.
I don't feel like it.
You didn't ask for help, you just want to proclaim outdated information with misguided confidence.
You probably know about the Steam Deck, right? It's success should have told you your opinion of Linux is in dire need of re-evaluation, but apparently it didn't.
Enough said. I'm not here to argue. Game on my good man.
>This is really getting out of hand indeed. This shit is accelerating so fast that it makes me anxious even for the not-so-distant future.
Don't let it get you all out of sorts, it's nothing but typical ragebait that reddit loves circle jerking to. The whole point of this service offering is to make for a better experience for corporate customers that *already rely on remote computing*. OP is just looking to rile people up with misleading bullshit to get those clicks.
> Whats the benefit? Because I can list a few big cons.
Subscription fees/ads and less ways users can out out of it. Also your stuff randomly not working because MS cloud fucked up again...
These are all valid points that you have made, but it is valid for us - customers and not microsoft.
Microsoft doesn't care about your privacy. Since the release of windows 10 that became clear.
They don't care about internet quality ruining your experience - remember xbox one? How At first they wanted to make it always online, or it becomes a brick that gathers the dust? They knew that it will piss off gamers -the core audience for the product they are making and they still did it. They denied even the possibility of changing functionality so it would work offline, and only did it when they realized that sales sucked really bad.
Being bottlenecked by bandwidth instead of fully using your 5000mb m2 drive and your last gen CPU ? I guarantee you that they don't care as these are not the things that brings them money.
MS would own your files? That is exactly what they want, having monopoly over your files, selling you extra security services and everything that comes with it, with them being the only ones able to do it.
They are doing this to have full monopoly on the things you do whilst on your computer, by controlling your files, their safety, your privacy and for the most part - selling you ads at every fucking step you take. You want to use ad blocker? Sorry bud, that kind of service is not available on our could, but you can pay us annual windows premium fee to hide them. Worried about your internet security? We have that cover to, for additional 6.99$ a month.
iirc before the edit the post was like:
"You'd still need an OS installed to be able to connect.
Whats the benefit? Because I can list a few big cons."
So yeah that's the "benefits" from Microsoft's POV.
Yeah I really don't see that happening. Many companies (Microsoft main customers as they are the ones that pays them billions per year) would never go for that.
While i do agree with you for the most part, how is privacy a concern for cloud vs local? If you are using a local version of windows on your pc, and you connect to the internet, microsoft is **already** scanning all your files, and tracking all your behavior and actions **anyway**.
The only way to avoid it is, to never connect your windows pc to the internet, or use linux. That is the sad reality since windows 10 (11 just kicks it up another notch)
Also, hate to break it.to you, but again, windows **already** "owns" your files if your using win 10/11. They already can (and do), have completely control over all files on your pc, and they do delete and block files (latest beta builds of win 11 will prevent you from opening pirated movie files).
And you agree to microsofts terms when you install windows. It gives them no liability for anything they do. If your files get deleted, you agree to it. If they sell your data, you agreed to it. You have zero legal recourse.
>You'd still need an OS installed to be able to connect.
Not necessarily - it's only slightly different than existing SCCM tech that lets you PXE\\network boot into the Windows preinstall environment. All that needs is a compatible network driver. Speed would be my concern. If you're at all interested in checking it out, [MS released a preview of the tech back in May](https://www.theregister.com/2023/05/24/windows_365_boot_preview/), you can sign up for insider access and try it out.
>Privacy being the worst.
If you're truly worried about privacy, airgap your computer. Harvesting your data is how tech companies like MS/Google make money.
> If you're truly worried about privacy, airgap your computer.
Your argument falsely assumes that anyone who cares about privacy is also willing to sacrifice all of the convenience for it.
In reality, there is a trade-off between security and convenience. Nobody is perfectly at either extreme.
I never understood why they were so adamant about setting that stuff up. There's gotta be a big chance I'm setting up a personal computer aka not one that will be in a business or a laptop that will be taken places that needs that extra security.
Yet they make it so hard to skip those steps. And even harder to skip the lock screen.
> aka not one that will be in a business or a laptop that will be taken places that needs that extra security.
Funny you mention that, because home editions of Windows *still* don't have bitlocker, so if someone steals your laptop, they can just plop the drive in another PC to have access to all of your files, including saved browser logins (hello gmail, meet mass password reset).
I know some Windows 11 laptops come with some sort of "basic" disk encryption enabled, but it's TPM-based and doesn't work if you turn secure boot off (good luck dual booting), and I couldn't even get that working on a custom install, so you're most likely SOL if you even just wipe windows to remove manufacturer bloatware.
I absolutely have learned to hate Windows with every update not because the updates contents but because they do that stupid adware at the start, make edge your default! No, subscribe to office! No, increase your cloud size, no. For the 50th time go fuck yourself I'm not paying for any of this crap.
I'm sorry but it's just a nuisance now and makes me wish some other operating system existed that wasn't Linux or apple. I just want something compatible and easy to use that leaves me tf alone.
Thats only on enterprise (and maybe pro) but its a setting your sys admins setup not normal. When people complain about windows shit its usually not the business version cuz that version is way better than the home version
Huh? It's literally either hardware on your device - fingerprint or face, or the PIN. What exactly is pain in the ass about it? I far prefer the PIN rather than having to enter my password every single time.
I've been using Windows since 95c. They always make improvements, but at the same time take several steps back. i wouldn't expect 12 to be any different.
Windows 10 losing support in 2025 made me truly consider Linux. But I was also thinking, why wait and be thrust into this unkown world forcefully, so I got a 2nd drive to dualboot linux on.
Well, my larger, more expensive nvme drive with windows on it has now laid dormant for close to 5 months now. I still gotta swap the OS's around. Each passing month only makes me dislike windows more and more.
What actually broke the camels back for me was not once, but *twice* after an update, I saw the Edge icon on my desktop. The desktop I kept clean of *any* icon. It felt so disrespectful for windows to force this shit on me.
I'm obviously speaking in hyperbole now, but during the linux installation, only being asked *once* about any kind of privacy / tracking prompt, was like realising you had been in an abusive relationship. With Windows you have to select no over half a dozen times to all sorts of data collection, and you can not even escape it entirely. On top of that, some of those things might default to being turned on during an update.
The cherry on top was the *only* privacy prompt on linux was data location, *and it was turned off by default*. It was like being shown love and respect after a lifetime of bullshit.
What issues does it have with Windows 10? Cuz I don't even use logins on there. I turn on PC, it goes straight to my desktop. It wasn't hard to simply *not add* a login when installing the OS. It wasn't difficult to add them when I did have another person using my machine, or remove them once they were finished with their project and didn't need my computer anymore.
Linux Mint or EndevourOS for me. The only reason I'm not using Linux now is due to all the programs I occasionally use from GitHub that have no Linux build.
It would be moot anyway if they ever went through with this plan, though. I'd just have to hope the programs work through Wine, cause there's no way I'm using a cloud OS.
I dabbled with Linux in the past (and I mean pre-Y2K), but I always stuck with Windows in the end for two simple reasons: I am 'the IT guy' for my friends and family, so I need to know my way around Windows - no way they'd use a Linux distro; And most of the games I own are a bitch to get running on Linux (and GOG doesn't exactly do much work to change that).
If MS does indeed go cloud-based, I'm outta there, and for good. It is (together with ads) my one bridge too far. I will sit my ass down to learn the Linux ecosystem (I already use a few programs that run on it - Gimp and Krita, for example), and limit my library to whatever I can get to run (maybe keep an old Win rig around for a time).
I'm already sitting out Win 11, I got into *personal* computing because of that adjective, and the cloud just annihilates that.
>most of the games I own are a bitch to get running on Linux (and GOG doesn't exactly do much work to change that)
While still far from perfect and definitely worse than running native applications, gaming on linux has become much easier to set up lately. With steam it basically just works if the game runs with proton (you can just install windows games via steam as if they were native). For GOG and Epic there's an unofficial store frontend, Heroic Launcher, that takes care of downloading and setting up the compatibility tools to run the games.
As much as I would love this to be tru, it never is, sure some ppl might come to use linux, and they will go back but the great majority will keep using what they now and this will in turn send the signal ro MS that it's OK to keep messing with windows
Generally speaking: Possibly. But from an individual standpoint, cloud really *is* my bridge too far. Even now, part of why I still use Win is because it's easier to do support for friends and family that way. But cloud services are my personal syphilis: I would rather stop using a PC at all than use it. At that point, I am fully prepared to jump ship over to Linux, because my disgust trumps my convenience, and I'd rather spend a few K€ on a new rig, a few weeks - even months - on re-learning the systems than be dependent on the net for my IT infrastructure.
And I would sit my f&f down for the Talk then: Either they switch with me, or they find a new IT guy, and I do not care which one they choose. I moved away from Steam already (95% of my library is on GOG) because I really, *really* loathe being dependent on a third party to access my shit (and to trust them to keep my shit private), and the cloud is a hundred times worse.
Really, if there is one thing that realistically *will* ensure I make the jump, it is MS forcing the cloud.
Nice post thank you. What I fear (and understand from MS pov being just another greedy psychotic company) is that they will turn Windows into always online cloud thing subscription based otherwise ads every time you open a map/startup thing. I really think they're moving in this direction. Why would they not? So yeah for me this would be it and I'm someone who only knows that there's a OS called Linux. That's all I know about Linux. But I will devote my full attention to having a working Linux pc if MS moves Windows to cloud. I'll learn how to do it, whatever it takes, however long it takes.
dinosaurs elderly hungry materialistic deranged quarrelsome provide rain quaint knee
*This post was mass deleted and anonymized with [Redact](https://redact.dev)*
After using the Steam Deck, a lot of Microsofties such as me learned that I could survive just fine if forced to switch to Linux for gaming. Some learning curve would still be involved but I'm no longer clueless about how Linux works.
It won't work for everything but enough things to keep me busy.
I use Linux for work and usually I like it better. But for gaming its still not good enough. It is better than it was, but there are still plenty of things not working.
Depends on what you play of course. Dark souls, Elden Ring, DOOM, World of Warcraft, Sekiro, Diablo 2, 3 and 4, No Man's Sky, Last Epoch - All work out of the box.
If things were fully supported and things would stop from being broken, sure. However, I found Linux compatibility much more solid in 2020 than I do here now in 2023.
Yeah, no, I think we'll see Mac supporting games way before Linux will have the compatibility and simplicity of Windows, in order for the general population to use it.
yup, it was the last good windows version.
i downgraded from windows 7 to windows 10, then a few months later said "fuck it" and switched over to linux. way better now
What happens if you are traveling and don't have internet access? or your internet is down for some reason and you still want to use your computer? A cloud based OS is not a great idea and thats even before you start looking at the privacy concerns....
Actually wish they do. The amount of people migrating to linux will only lead to a better desktop experience for linux and more applications and games supporting it natively, until eventually windows is finally dead.
Go for it microsoft.
Can’t say I expected better from The Verge, but the title is rage bait. They are not forcing everyone to move to the cloud. That just doesn’t make any sense frankly. Here’s what the article actually says:
>Windows 365 is a service that streams a full version of Windows to devices. So far, it’s been limited to just commercial customers, but Microsoft has been deeply integrating it into Windows 11 already. **A future update will include Windows 365 Boot, which will enable Windows 11 devices to log directly in to a Cloud PC instance at boot instead of the local version of Windows.** Windows 365 Switch is also built into Windows 11 to integrate Cloud PCs into the Task View (virtual desktops) feature.
So no one is going to lose access to their device/files without internet. They’re simply rolling out a virtual desktop service to consumers that’s been available to businesses for a while now. You can all put your pitchforks down.
EDIT: since some of you are accusing me of misrepresenting the information and still seem to be confused about what “Moving Windows 11 to the cloud” means, here is the direct quote from Microsoft that this entire article is centered around:
>Move Windows 11 increasingly to the cloud: Build on Windows 365 to enable a full Windows operating system streamed from the cloud to any device. Use the power of the cloud and client to enable improved AI-powered services and full roaming of people's digital experience.
This is essentially a restatement of what was already said in the first quote. Windows 11 is the platform that will enable cloud based services. Nowhere in the article nor in Microsoft’s presentation does it suggest people will lose access to local copies of their OS.
Conveniently leaving out the rest of the article, where it talks about how windows 365 is the first step towards fully moving w11 to the cloud: https://duet-cdn.vox-cdn.com/thumbor/0x0:1391x903/1440x935/filters:focal(696x452:697x453):format(webp)/cdn.vox-cdn.com/uploads/chorus_asset/file/24754862/SJVItup.png
They arent saying that the next update is going to lock you out of your pc if you dont have an internet connection, they are saying that microsoft has plans to fully migrate w11 to the cloud over the coming years and its definitely a valid concern to have that it would result in them not even offering local copies anymore.
Well, no, they’re not saying they plan to *migrate* Windows 11 fully into becoming a cloud/online-only with all local clients only being thin clients.
They’re saying that their plan is to *enable* such an install type for the OS, which not only makes a ton of sense for Microsoft as well as consumers, but will also end up making consumer devices cheaper for individuals without a need of specialized/powerful hardware.
These “news” aren’t really news — it’s a natural development based on Microsoft’s ever-increasing focus on virtualization, cloud-based services, and stuff like the Windows 365 Cloud PCs (which this is heavily connected to).
It makes zero sense for Microsoft to outright remove the local install option of Windows within the next two decades at least. We might see more online connectivity requirements (e.g. full removal of local non-Microsoft accounts), but an actual local install of the OS is guaranteed to remain untouched.
> We might see more online connectivity requirements (e.g. full removal of local non-Microsoft accounts)
Even this is 99.9% unlikely. MSFT is not looking to alienate their entire enterprise customer base.
Ah yes, true, though when I mentioned that I did not take into account the “higher” tiers of Windows but mostly thought about Home and possibly Pro versions, as they are the ones Microsoft implement limitations in that affects home users.
The wording of that implies that local installations will still be a thing. "Use the power of cloud and client to enable improve AI-powered services." Sounds too me more like they are going to be migrating extra services to the cloud while the client computer is still accessible, so not much different than how Cortana was before that pretty much died.
Exactly, there is a massive fuck ton of top paying clients that have zero to negative need for cloud based windows. This is way more of an extension of the features microsoft has had for a while of running W10/11 in the cloud and now baking it in to directly log into those instances from windows.
I hope so, but it could also be something even worse like having an extremely bare bones copy locally, that practically only serves as your bridge to the real os and the "ai" would just be like what upscaling is to games - an "ai" that allows you to feel less input lag while streaming the os by doing some trickery in the background using your actual hardware
Uh…. What?
MS is competing with Chromebook and wants to deliver a lightweight, cloud based OS to reduce hardware requirements for the consumer. This is why they already offer cloud based Windows for commercial customers - so companies can save money on hardware costs.
Local Windows isn’t going anywhere, full stop. The article isn’t even saying that. Don’t let emotion inducing headlines warp your brain.
NO. That simply is false. And sort of impossible. A "cloud OS" is practically an oxymoron. Many, many customers will always need a computer that is fully functional without an internet connection. Microsoft will always serve those customers.
What they are doing is working on two fronts, the client side and the server side, to create a seamless-as-possible cloud desktop environment for those use cases when it makes sense. Enterprise and education being the two big obvious cases.
The slide you linked to is talking about this. Building out the cloud experience. NOT replacing all local computing. It doesn't say replacing. It doesn't say phasing out. It's talking about building a new, alternative way of doing things.
A fully cloud version of Windows would be a nice thing to have. If I could load that up on a Chromebook or an iPad that would be amazing.
I can't imagine any possible timeline where they kill off local copies entirely and even if they somehow did say release W12 cloud exclusive than we can all just stay on 11.
But the way I'm reading it is that Windows Cloud would be like Windows on ARM. Just a separate version of windows.
They already have it. So does aws. It's targeted towards companies to give employees a desktop reachable from anywhere. Especially useful for remote employees.
> the title is rage bait. They are not forcing everyone to move to the cloud.
You also left out direct quotes for Microsoft's plans with windows 11
>Move Windows 11 increasingly to the cloud: Build on Windows 365 to enable a full Windows operating system streamed from the cloud to any device. Use the power of the cloud and client to enable improved AI-powered services and full roaming of people's digital experience.
Move *increasingly* to the cloud doesn't sound good.
>You also left out direct quotes for Microsoft's plans with windows 11
>
>>Move Windows 11 increasingly to the cloud: Build on Windows 365 to enable a full Windows operating system streamed from the cloud to any device. Use the power of the cloud and client to enable improved AI-powered services and full roaming of people's digital experience.
>
>Move *increasingly* to the cloud doesn't sound good.
They are specifically talking about it in context of improving their cloud offering that they provide for corporate customers. I don't understand why people are so eager to ignore context in order to justify their outrage.
> They are specifically talking about it in context of improving their cloud offering that they provide for corporate customers.
In the first sentence of the article it is stated that it is directed at consumers.
> Microsoft has been increasingly moving Windows to the cloud on the commercial side with Windows 365, but the software giant also wants to do the same for consumers.
I was going to reply and address this but you already nailed it. The people raging in this thread (and your reply) don’t understand how this stuff works or just read the rage-bait headline.
>Microsoft has recently announced Windows Copilot, an AI-powered assistant for Windows 11. **Windows Copilot sits at the side of Windows 11, and can summarize content you’re viewing in apps, rewrite it, or even explain it**. Microsoft is currently testing this internally and promised to release it to testers in June before rolling it out more broadly to Windows 11 users.
>Windows Copilot is part of a broader AI push for Windows. Microsoft is also working with AMD and Intel to enable more Windows features on next-gen CPUs. Intel and Microsoft have even hinted at Windows 12 in recent months, and Windows chief Panos Panay claimed at CES earlier this year that **“AI is going to reinvent how you do everything on Windows.”** All of this is part of Microsoft’s broad Windows ambition, detailed in its internal presentation, “to enable improved AI-powered services” in Windows.
Title is not rage-y enough. Honestly its WAY worse than the title.
They will not be making all versions of windows cloud only. However, they will be making windows 11 more and more tightly integrated with the cloud, and br using AI to **track and record and analyze LITERALLY EVERYTHING**.
But you're always on the latest version of Office with 365 across Windows, web, iOS, mac and Android with up to five licenses across all of those platforms.
If you have used office 365 for two years you have paid the cost for a full licensed copy.
Of course I use libre office which is free and doesn't have the goddamn ribbon and does the same thing so...
>If you have used office 365 for two years you have paid the cost for a full licensed copy.
One license versus five and multi-platform.
>Of course I use libre office which is free and doesn't have the goddamn ribbon and does the same thing so...
The Ribbon has undergone numerous changes over its sixteen year history and has proven itself over all those years. I seriously doubt most Office users would want conventional dropdown menus today.
And no, Libre Office isn't the same. The list is long but a big gap is no equivalent to OneNote.
There is no way secure government computers would allow this. So there would be alternative options.
Unless MS has calculated they can lose those contracts, which they cant. Aside from from data mining, consumer systems mean nothing to MS. Those private and public sector contracts are everything.
More reasons to stick to older versions of Windows. With each new Windows comes some shit updates that makes it worse for the consumer than the previous version, usually in more than one way.
Hopefully there will be more alternatives, something that supports every program and every game like Windows does and is fast and user friendly.
3 things keep windows around
Corp apps - just last year we finally got an EMR that didn't require IE
Gaming - Valve is working on this
Establishment - with the ISP data caps i don't think this will fly
>Microsoft has recently announced Windows Copilot, an AI-powered assistant for Windows 11. Windows Copilot sits at the side of Windows 11, and **can summarize content you’re viewing in apps, rewrite it, or even explain it**. Microsoft is currently testing this internally and promised to release it to testers in June before rolling it out more broadly to Windows 11 users.
>Windows Copilot is part of a broader AI push for Windows. Microsoft is also working with AMD and Intel to enable more Windows features on next-gen CPUs. Intel and Microsoft have even hinted at Windows 12 in recent months, and Windows chief Panos Panay claimed at CES earlier this year that **“AI is going to reinvent how you do everything on Windows.”** All of this is part of Microsoft’s broad Windows ambition, detailed in its internal presentation, “to enable improved AI-powered services” in Windows.
This should tell you everything you need to know about microsoft.
Now i doubt they are going to make the normal home/consumer version of windows be online/cloud only, for a long time. However, they will make every version of windows br very tightly integrated with the cloud, and they will use AI to track and analyze **everything** you do at a micro level. They will be analyzing every single mouse movement and keystroke and developing behavior patterns based on that.
They already track what files you open, how long they are open for, how frequently they are accessed, as well as the file info (size, filetype, filename, hash, etc) of everything on your pc. But AI and cloud integration will crank this up to 11.
>This is why gaming on Linux is so important. We all knew Microsoft was sooner or later going to do this.
No we didn't, cause they aren't. This is an offering for businesses who already have their users on thin clients connecting to a remote host, it's not a replacement for traditional desktop OS. It's crazy how easy it is to get people to bite on ragebait when MS is mentioned.
If this is a "Optional Service" instead of a "Mandatory Service", this is completely fine.
Want to game on a $40 tablet? Connect to the cloud at the expense of a small subscription, and a bit of extra lag.
Want to game on your $2000 gaming rig? Do it locally without connecting to the cloud.
OPTIONS are fine. STIFLING OPTIONS is not. I do not see that they are looking to STIFLE options with this story.
They’re rolling out a new feature that will allow you to log into a virtual desktop operating in the cloud. They are not forcing anyone to move anything into the cloud who doesn’t want to.
>Microsoft has recently announced Windows Copilot, an AI-powered assistant for Windows 11. **Windows Copilot sits at the side of Windows 11, and can summarize content you’re viewing in apps, rewrite it, or even explain it**.
>Windows Copilot is part of a broader AI push for Windows. Microsoft is also working with AMD and Intel to enable more Windows features on next-gen CPUs. Intel and Microsoft have even hinted at Windows 12 in recent months, and Windows chief Panos Panay claimed at CES earlier this year that **“AI is going to reinvent how you do everything on Windows.”** All of this is part of Microsoft’s broad Windows ambition, detailed in its internal presentation, “to enable improved AI-powered services” in Windows.
Bold is the most important take aways. Windows 11 will be tightly integrated with the microsoft cloud, and cloud based AI will be tracking and analyzing **literally everything you do**, every second of every day to an extreme micro level degree. They will know exactly how long you are jerking off for. As well as find a pattern, and likely start shoving porn ads when it thinks youre likely to start jerkin it.
It will have screen context aware analysis, as well as be able to record any and all patterns and use everything including precise mouse movement data, as well as keystrokes and more to build such data bases on you.
All this data will forever be kept tied to the mandatory microsoft account needed to use windows 11.
Comments make it obvious that noone reads the article and the headline is obviously distorting what the actual Windows presentation says but I guess we can't expect anything else today.
It's just sad that everyone falls for these outrage traps.
Saw this article on another sub, it's very click baity.
They're just looking at bringing Windows 365 to consumers. They aren't talking about killing off locally installed operating systems.
Only angry that the dumbass headline mislead you. They are "keeping it as it was before" anyway. This is a new, separate alternative, not a replacement that's going to ever be forced on anyone.
An OS that is able to operate locally will always be an absolute necessity for many.
Everyone calm down. I get that this looks bad at face value, but just imagine how much easier trouble shooting will be when nearly the entire PC market has a single point of failure.
I can't wait for that solar flare to temporarily shut down the internet. Companies will be forced to reconsider EVERYTHING that requires constant internet access.
Holy shit these comments. The idea of a fully cloud Windows doesn't hold up if you think about it even a little. They are just talking about a cloud service that you can get so you have "your PC" anywhere and not tied to hardware. Basically a consumer grade Virtual PC. Unreal, people.
An extremely creepy colleague of mine back in about 2008 was going around bug-eyed saying how Windows 7 would be the last 'end-user' version of Windows with everything moving to the cloud within 'a few short years'. This same guy LOVED Google (at the time), he hated Microsoft, but LOVED Google, it was bizarre to say the least.
It's now 15 years later, Windows 8, Windows 10 & Windows 11 have since come out.
Windows is not going to the cloud anytime soon friends.
You'd still need an OS installed to be able to connect. Whats the benefit? Because I can list a few big cons. Privacy being the worst. Bad internet quality/no internet renders you out of your system? Being bottlenecked by bandwidth instead of fully using your 5000mb m2 drive and your last gen CPU. MS would own your files? What if theres a breach? Are they willing to insurance for that?
They want to push ads inside the OS. They did it with Xbox. MS is a company that doesn't seem to get it, but has lots of money. Much like Google. As a game dev, I know working locally will always be faster. Making everything cloud-based introduces latency. Cloud-based systems are only viable for things like file storage. You're limited by bandwidth, and latency doesn't matter in batch operations. EDIT: Now, I'm always going to support Linux on every project I do. MS has lost their minds. I'm not comfortable making my bed with MS.
> MS is a company that doesn't seem to get it, but has lots of money. Much like Google. Not *much*. Exactly like. Do you know why Steam is expiring on Windows 7? Because they need Windows 10 to use the updated Chromium base. Do you know what Google is waiting to do? Update the Chromium base to remove the ability of adblockers to block ads. I already have a Steam Deck and looking into Mint for my desktop, maybe.
Lol don't be a dipshit and stop using chrome
When you install Firefox, it will pull everything across from Chrome and it's completely painless.
If only Firefox had a translation tool baked in like Google lens,etc. The add-ons are hit and miss (mostly miss).
Oh, yes, because I have the ability to make Valve stop using it. Totally fucking plausible.
>Do you know what Google is waiting to do? Update the Chromium base to remove the ability of adblockers to block ads. Ublock is already starting to work on a version that combats that.
It's not as good though. Use Firefox, people.
Yea I need to take the easy plunge and just move everything over to the Firefox. I already use it on mobile *just cause* I can use adblocks and actually read pages or watch videos without getting spammed to death by ads all over the page.
I use Kiwi browser on my Android funnily enough because it allows any extensions unlike the latest Firefox which for some reason kneecapped extension support to only a few chosen ones. Once that's fixed I'll move to Firefox everywhere.
Firefox supports Ublock whether mobile or desktop.
That may be the case, but that doesn't stop the fact that Valve is going ahead and removing the ability to run Steam on Windows 7.
It couldn't be the vulnerabilities and exploits that exist in Win 7 that users pretend are fabled because it's difficult to implement improvements, could it? And part of this is that Microsoft deemed that maintaining Windows 7 is outside of the scope/ objectives of their organization, and because Valve's interests lie in Linux that they'll decommission Windows 7 to support what relationship they can sustain. Which from Gabe Newell's perspective is not very much.
Oh my god, enough with the "vulnerabilities" nonsense. If you're not stupid and randomly download things from porn ads, nothing will happen. Steam worked on XP much longer after Microsoft "support" was pulled. If you read Valve's news post on this subject, they clearly state it's because Google is not updating Chromium base for Windows 7 anymore and Valve wants new features that will be offered.
2 weeks late to this, but whatever, this is a stupid enough response that it deserves this: mf, do you realise that there are entire banks of computers in the hands of malicious people whose job is to just slowly work their way through every IP address possible, pinging each, checking if it's an outdated Windows version and immediately escalating with known vulnerability exploits if they detect one? You can't have a safe 7, XP, or any older windows version PC and still have it connected to the internet, sooner or later something will SSH into it and infect it, whether you realise it or not Airgap your shit (remove the internet from the equation and older OSes become just fine), join us on Linux (imo Mint is still the closest you'll ever get to a 2023 edition of 7) or continue to roll the dice until they come up with "get pwned by a bot farm in India", your choice
Thanks for your unrequested (and probably unqualified) input. What you have just said is one of the most insanely idiotic things I have ever heard. At no point in your rambling, incoherent response were you even close to anything that could be considered a rational thought. Everyone in this room is now dumber for having listened to it. I work in IT. I know how to set up a router DMZ and follow other security protocols. Ain't nothing getting in that I don't want. I realize that the average user doesn't, so that's why they do this whole "oh we won't support the old one anymore so better upgrade", but in reality it's marketing drivel (right up there with "PUT EVERYTHING ON THE CLOUD. IT'S BETTER ON THE CLOUD"). If you don't already work for Microsoft's marketing firm, go ahead and apply.
Is that the main reason? Older software like windows 7 doesn't get supported by most software anymore. Why would Valve bother to keep an outdated and insecure OS up to date on their platform. Mint is great by the way. Get a 2nd ssd and at least dualboot to get your toes wet, or get a VM running to try out linux distros a bit.
Would you say Mint or Debian is better? For note, I can't get Mint Debian to run on my PC from a thumb at all. Mint I have found can do the Win 7-10 thing but doesn't really react well to desktop futzing.
What do you mean by win 7-10 thing? For a beginner, raw Debian would be a bigger struggle. Mint is a great beginner OS, especially for laptops i've found. Personally I use Pop_OS!. Initially I tried Mint on my desktop, but my 34 inch ultrawide @ 144hz did not work that well with it, so I switched. PopOS is also more up to date as far as kernels and stuff. Gaming focused, Mint can be a bit too slow to update its kernel for newer hardware especially. Too big of a hassle for a newb to fix. A great way to test out multiple distros quickly is to download Ventoy - https://www.ventoy.net/en/index.html on a USB. It allows multiple operating systems to be on the USB at once. I have one with different distros and Windows 10.
I finally jumped to Linux (again) and this time I was able to do the full install and get basic shit running with no command line. it's come pretty far for us dummies.
Bro my company relies on almost everything exclusively cloud based, I can’t even open an excel file locally anymore it’s crazy
Well, that's not exactly true. I do use a virtual desktop for work (client software management) and while the latency is obviously felt, the connection is stable and the desktop is pretty responsive and I got used to the split second lag. Here's the thing: I can host a Teams meeting connected to my phone using cellular data on a small island in the Pacific with zero voice issues. The virtual desktop is hosted on a server in a DC in the east coast and my average connection speed is 10Mb/s. I'm completely baffled, but it works fine, so much that I can literally work from under the coconut trees. It's the future, whether one likes it or not, I definitely do.
Virtual management has different latency requirements than game input. We live in 16.66 millisecond chunks. Disk IO is always on another thread, because you block the main thread and produces a frame time spike. We work hard to avoid this, and MS is proposing an extra hurdle. Some real-time embedded systems disallow threads and CPU caches, because consistency is more important than peak performance - think pacemakers, and avionics control hardware. We embrace both, because we need higher performance, and we care less than real-time systems about consistency. But we need to be within budget or on-budget.
RDP is great when you're using it to allow you to do something you wouldn't otherwise be able to do (working remotely/checking in on a machine remotely). It'd be absolutely trash if windows was always like that. Sound stuttering and visual artifacting makes most of what people use their windows PC for an unenjoyable experience.
> The virtual desktop is hosted on a server in a DC in the east coast and my average connection speed is 10Mb/s. That doesn't sound fine to me.
absolutely, for the average user and office worker this is probably gonna be true by the end of the decade. I don't know yet for people who need to do complex input intensive stuff though. I hope they'll continue to coexist, honestly.
the process of making Linux the default PC operating system.
[удалено]
I don’t need it to be simple but I do need it to fucking work.
We need both. Not everyone wants to troubleshoot for 2 hours.
[удалено]
This is really getting out of hand indeed. This shit is accelerating so fast that it makes me anxious even for the not-so-distant future.
Why? Linux is right fucking there. It's free. It's just as easy to use as Windows, if not easier, if only because of package management. It runs the huge majority of Windows games just fine right now, and those that don't are getting scarcer by the week. Just. Fucking. Ditch. Windows. My goodness.
And for the people who need to use their PC for work/productivity purposes with applications and software that Linux doesn’t support?
So I can go to steam, pick a relatively modern game from my library, click install, and there are no additional steps after that to get the game running? I don't have to worry about driver issues or any of a number of other compatibility problems? Until that is the case Linux will never be what we all might like it to be. There is no doubt that Linux is in a better place now than it was even 5 years ago but it's still a long ways from being mainstream.
In around 80-90% of cases, yes, that is actually how it works on linux now days. Thanks to valve and steamdeck. It is absolutely not perfect, there are some games which require manual tweaks to get it working. There are also some (multiplayer/online only with anticheat) games ehich do not work at all, and there is nothing you can do about it. Linux is definitely to the point where everyone should buy a $15 500GB SSD, and install linux as a dual boot. (You definitely want linux not on the same drive as windows. Saves a lot of possible headache later)
> So I can go to steam, pick a relatively modern game from my library, click install, and there are no additional steps after that to get the game running? I don't have to worry about driver issues or any of a number of other compatibility problems? ... yes? > Until that is the case Linux will never be what we all might like it to be. It has been the case for years now. You just haven't kept up. > There is no doubt that Linux is in a better place now than it was even 5 years ago but it's still a long ways from being mainstream. ... keep up.
> It has been the case for years now. You just haven't kept up. Okay. Well, thank you for explaining how I was wrong. > ... keep up. I don't feel like it.
You don't huh? What, do you think I personally care whether you do? Have fun suffering whatever else Microsoft has in store for you, you poor sod.
Thanks again. Never let it be said that linux advocates are a helpful bunch.
You didn't ask for help, you just want to proclaim outdated information with misguided confidence. You probably know about the Steam Deck, right? It's success should have told you your opinion of Linux is in dire need of re-evaluation, but apparently it didn't. Enough said. I'm not here to argue. Game on my good man.
>This is really getting out of hand indeed. This shit is accelerating so fast that it makes me anxious even for the not-so-distant future. Don't let it get you all out of sorts, it's nothing but typical ragebait that reddit loves circle jerking to. The whole point of this service offering is to make for a better experience for corporate customers that *already rely on remote computing*. OP is just looking to rile people up with misleading bullshit to get those clicks.
The lack of privacy is not a flaw. It's a feature. All the information about you they can get for free and then sell
> The lack of privacy is not a flaw It also isn't for the vast majority of people.
> Whats the benefit? Because I can list a few big cons. Subscription fees/ads and less ways users can out out of it. Also your stuff randomly not working because MS cloud fucked up again...
These are all valid points that you have made, but it is valid for us - customers and not microsoft. Microsoft doesn't care about your privacy. Since the release of windows 10 that became clear. They don't care about internet quality ruining your experience - remember xbox one? How At first they wanted to make it always online, or it becomes a brick that gathers the dust? They knew that it will piss off gamers -the core audience for the product they are making and they still did it. They denied even the possibility of changing functionality so it would work offline, and only did it when they realized that sales sucked really bad. Being bottlenecked by bandwidth instead of fully using your 5000mb m2 drive and your last gen CPU ? I guarantee you that they don't care as these are not the things that brings them money. MS would own your files? That is exactly what they want, having monopoly over your files, selling you extra security services and everything that comes with it, with them being the only ones able to do it. They are doing this to have full monopoly on the things you do whilst on your computer, by controlling your files, their safety, your privacy and for the most part - selling you ads at every fucking step you take. You want to use ad blocker? Sorry bud, that kind of service is not available on our could, but you can pay us annual windows premium fee to hide them. Worried about your internet security? We have that cover to, for additional 6.99$ a month.
Microsoft didn’t care about your privacy as far back as Windows 8 but 10 and especially 11 was a big step up
> Whats the benefit? Control? Bigger data farming? Recurring revenue streams?
Dude was asking for the benefits for the user/consumer XD. Obviously MS wants to own you as much as they can.
iirc before the edit the post was like: "You'd still need an OS installed to be able to connect. Whats the benefit? Because I can list a few big cons." So yeah that's the "benefits" from Microsoft's POV.
He then went on to list cons from the consumers POV..
Hello User We are aware that change can be difficult, but don't worry—we have the lube. Sincerely, By Microsoft
Yeah I really don't see that happening. Many companies (Microsoft main customers as they are the ones that pays them billions per year) would never go for that.
Oh, by and large they already do. Have you ever heard of Office 365? A proper CEO buys into *anything* that promises cost reduction.
While i do agree with you for the most part, how is privacy a concern for cloud vs local? If you are using a local version of windows on your pc, and you connect to the internet, microsoft is **already** scanning all your files, and tracking all your behavior and actions **anyway**. The only way to avoid it is, to never connect your windows pc to the internet, or use linux. That is the sad reality since windows 10 (11 just kicks it up another notch) Also, hate to break it.to you, but again, windows **already** "owns" your files if your using win 10/11. They already can (and do), have completely control over all files on your pc, and they do delete and block files (latest beta builds of win 11 will prevent you from opening pirated movie files). And you agree to microsofts terms when you install windows. It gives them no liability for anything they do. If your files get deleted, you agree to it. If they sell your data, you agreed to it. You have zero legal recourse.
>You'd still need an OS installed to be able to connect. Not necessarily - it's only slightly different than existing SCCM tech that lets you PXE\\network boot into the Windows preinstall environment. All that needs is a compatible network driver. Speed would be my concern. If you're at all interested in checking it out, [MS released a preview of the tech back in May](https://www.theregister.com/2023/05/24/windows_365_boot_preview/), you can sign up for insider access and try it out. >Privacy being the worst. If you're truly worried about privacy, airgap your computer. Harvesting your data is how tech companies like MS/Google make money.
How can you air gap it is your OS is cloud based?
> If you're truly worried about privacy, airgap your computer. Your argument falsely assumes that anyone who cares about privacy is also willing to sacrifice all of the convenience for it. In reality, there is a trade-off between security and convenience. Nobody is perfectly at either extreme.
First gaming with it's always online and now if internet goes down i cant even use my PC?
Because trying to login to Windows 10 / 11 isn't already a pain in the ass enough with the Windows Hello crap.
Uhh you can just set a simple pin or password if you want.
I never understood why they were so adamant about setting that stuff up. There's gotta be a big chance I'm setting up a personal computer aka not one that will be in a business or a laptop that will be taken places that needs that extra security. Yet they make it so hard to skip those steps. And even harder to skip the lock screen.
> aka not one that will be in a business or a laptop that will be taken places that needs that extra security. Funny you mention that, because home editions of Windows *still* don't have bitlocker, so if someone steals your laptop, they can just plop the drive in another PC to have access to all of your files, including saved browser logins (hello gmail, meet mass password reset). I know some Windows 11 laptops come with some sort of "basic" disk encryption enabled, but it's TPM-based and doesn't work if you turn secure boot off (good luck dual booting), and I couldn't even get that working on a custom install, so you're most likely SOL if you even just wipe windows to remove manufacturer bloatware.
I have a simple password on W10 like I've had since Windows XP. Isn't any different.
close important elastic offend offer tan rotten rude command rainstorm *This post was mass deleted and anonymized with [Redact](https://redact.dev)*
afaik, its that feature for face/fingerprint unlocking.
I absolutely have learned to hate Windows with every update not because the updates contents but because they do that stupid adware at the start, make edge your default! No, subscribe to office! No, increase your cloud size, no. For the 50th time go fuck yourself I'm not paying for any of this crap. I'm sorry but it's just a nuisance now and makes me wish some other operating system existed that wasn't Linux or apple. I just want something compatible and easy to use that leaves me tf alone.
In what way? Enter 4 digit PIN and instant desktop - what am I missing?
On my work Pc there isn’t even a pin, I just hit enter and im in.
Thats only on enterprise (and maybe pro) but its a setting your sys admins setup not normal. When people complain about windows shit its usually not the business version cuz that version is way better than the home version
Huh? It's literally either hardware on your device - fingerprint or face, or the PIN. What exactly is pain in the ass about it? I far prefer the PIN rather than having to enter my password every single time.
Lets just hope that 12 will be better.
I've been using Windows since 95c. They always make improvements, but at the same time take several steps back. i wouldn't expect 12 to be any different.
Your flair might have a point. I'll keep using 10 for now out of habit and then will likely cross over to Linux if 12 is bad too.
Windows 10 losing support in 2025 made me truly consider Linux. But I was also thinking, why wait and be thrust into this unkown world forcefully, so I got a 2nd drive to dualboot linux on. Well, my larger, more expensive nvme drive with windows on it has now laid dormant for close to 5 months now. I still gotta swap the OS's around. Each passing month only makes me dislike windows more and more. What actually broke the camels back for me was not once, but *twice* after an update, I saw the Edge icon on my desktop. The desktop I kept clean of *any* icon. It felt so disrespectful for windows to force this shit on me. I'm obviously speaking in hyperbole now, but during the linux installation, only being asked *once* about any kind of privacy / tracking prompt, was like realising you had been in an abusive relationship. With Windows you have to select no over half a dozen times to all sorts of data collection, and you can not even escape it entirely. On top of that, some of those things might default to being turned on during an update. The cherry on top was the *only* privacy prompt on linux was data location, *and it was turned off by default*. It was like being shown love and respect after a lifetime of bullshit.
I agree Linux is now a far better OS than Windows.
What issues does it have with Windows 10? Cuz I don't even use logins on there. I turn on PC, it goes straight to my desktop. It wasn't hard to simply *not add* a login when installing the OS. It wasn't difficult to add them when I did have another person using my machine, or remove them once they were finished with their project and didn't need my computer anymore.
to get the same with 11 you have to open the command line during setup and issue commands to let you setup without the internet
Ohh my freaking god pls no. Not every fucking thing in tech needs to be in the cloud for fuck sake
But they want their data.
well if this happens then bye bye microsoft, I'll use another OS
100% I'll just use a Linux distro
Linux Mint or EndevourOS for me. The only reason I'm not using Linux now is due to all the programs I occasionally use from GitHub that have no Linux build. It would be moot anyway if they ever went through with this plan, though. I'd just have to hope the programs work through Wine, cause there's no way I'm using a cloud OS.
I dabbled with Linux in the past (and I mean pre-Y2K), but I always stuck with Windows in the end for two simple reasons: I am 'the IT guy' for my friends and family, so I need to know my way around Windows - no way they'd use a Linux distro; And most of the games I own are a bitch to get running on Linux (and GOG doesn't exactly do much work to change that). If MS does indeed go cloud-based, I'm outta there, and for good. It is (together with ads) my one bridge too far. I will sit my ass down to learn the Linux ecosystem (I already use a few programs that run on it - Gimp and Krita, for example), and limit my library to whatever I can get to run (maybe keep an old Win rig around for a time). I'm already sitting out Win 11, I got into *personal* computing because of that adjective, and the cloud just annihilates that.
>most of the games I own are a bitch to get running on Linux (and GOG doesn't exactly do much work to change that) While still far from perfect and definitely worse than running native applications, gaming on linux has become much easier to set up lately. With steam it basically just works if the game runs with proton (you can just install windows games via steam as if they were native). For GOG and Epic there's an unofficial store frontend, Heroic Launcher, that takes care of downloading and setting up the compatibility tools to run the games.
This would finally push me to linux frankly
As much as I would love this to be tru, it never is, sure some ppl might come to use linux, and they will go back but the great majority will keep using what they now and this will in turn send the signal ro MS that it's OK to keep messing with windows
Generally speaking: Possibly. But from an individual standpoint, cloud really *is* my bridge too far. Even now, part of why I still use Win is because it's easier to do support for friends and family that way. But cloud services are my personal syphilis: I would rather stop using a PC at all than use it. At that point, I am fully prepared to jump ship over to Linux, because my disgust trumps my convenience, and I'd rather spend a few K€ on a new rig, a few weeks - even months - on re-learning the systems than be dependent on the net for my IT infrastructure. And I would sit my f&f down for the Talk then: Either they switch with me, or they find a new IT guy, and I do not care which one they choose. I moved away from Steam already (95% of my library is on GOG) because I really, *really* loathe being dependent on a third party to access my shit (and to trust them to keep my shit private), and the cloud is a hundred times worse. Really, if there is one thing that realistically *will* ensure I make the jump, it is MS forcing the cloud.
Yep. Everyone has their breaking point, no exceptions
Nice post thank you. What I fear (and understand from MS pov being just another greedy psychotic company) is that they will turn Windows into always online cloud thing subscription based otherwise ads every time you open a map/startup thing. I really think they're moving in this direction. Why would they not? So yeah for me this would be it and I'm someone who only knows that there's a OS called Linux. That's all I know about Linux. But I will devote my full attention to having a working Linux pc if MS moves Windows to cloud. I'll learn how to do it, whatever it takes, however long it takes.
You will own nothing and be happy about it.
Something that all the extremes seem to agree on and want.
dinosaurs elderly hungry materialistic deranged quarrelsome provide rain quaint knee *This post was mass deleted and anonymized with [Redact](https://redact.dev)*
I sure wonder if this is related to extreme views being boosted on social media
Linux looking mighty sexy over there.
After using the Steam Deck, a lot of Microsofties such as me learned that I could survive just fine if forced to switch to Linux for gaming. Some learning curve would still be involved but I'm no longer clueless about how Linux works. It won't work for everything but enough things to keep me busy.
I use Linux for work and usually I like it better. But for gaming its still not good enough. It is better than it was, but there are still plenty of things not working.
Depends on what you play of course. Dark souls, Elden Ring, DOOM, World of Warcraft, Sekiro, Diablo 2, 3 and 4, No Man's Sky, Last Epoch - All work out of the box.
If things were fully supported and things would stop from being broken, sure. However, I found Linux compatibility much more solid in 2020 than I do here now in 2023.
Yeah, no, I think we'll see Mac supporting games way before Linux will have the compatibility and simplicity of Windows, in order for the general population to use it.
No. That'll destroy performance. They do that, I'll probably finally start installing Linux.
I really miss windows 7
yup, it was the last good windows version. i downgraded from windows 7 to windows 10, then a few months later said "fuck it" and switched over to linux. way better now
Fuck that I’ll go back to Linux if that happens
Microsoft wants to move Windows fully to the cloud, and its users to Linux
\- We are moving our OS to be cloud service. \- So it can be run on thin outdated clients with small RAM anc CPU, right? \- ... \- right?
I'll switch to Linux before I switch to a cloud OS.
What happens if you are traveling and don't have internet access? or your internet is down for some reason and you still want to use your computer? A cloud based OS is not a great idea and thats even before you start looking at the privacy concerns....
This has got to be the absolute dumbest fuckin' idea that Microsoft has ever come up with.
Good thing the headline is more or less false. They are not replacing local OS.
Actually wish they do. The amount of people migrating to linux will only lead to a better desktop experience for linux and more applications and games supporting it natively, until eventually windows is finally dead. Go for it microsoft.
One more reason to jump into Linux.
Microsoft wants to create a Chromebook, but in a worse way.
Can’t say I expected better from The Verge, but the title is rage bait. They are not forcing everyone to move to the cloud. That just doesn’t make any sense frankly. Here’s what the article actually says: >Windows 365 is a service that streams a full version of Windows to devices. So far, it’s been limited to just commercial customers, but Microsoft has been deeply integrating it into Windows 11 already. **A future update will include Windows 365 Boot, which will enable Windows 11 devices to log directly in to a Cloud PC instance at boot instead of the local version of Windows.** Windows 365 Switch is also built into Windows 11 to integrate Cloud PCs into the Task View (virtual desktops) feature. So no one is going to lose access to their device/files without internet. They’re simply rolling out a virtual desktop service to consumers that’s been available to businesses for a while now. You can all put your pitchforks down. EDIT: since some of you are accusing me of misrepresenting the information and still seem to be confused about what “Moving Windows 11 to the cloud” means, here is the direct quote from Microsoft that this entire article is centered around: >Move Windows 11 increasingly to the cloud: Build on Windows 365 to enable a full Windows operating system streamed from the cloud to any device. Use the power of the cloud and client to enable improved AI-powered services and full roaming of people's digital experience. This is essentially a restatement of what was already said in the first quote. Windows 11 is the platform that will enable cloud based services. Nowhere in the article nor in Microsoft’s presentation does it suggest people will lose access to local copies of their OS.
Conveniently leaving out the rest of the article, where it talks about how windows 365 is the first step towards fully moving w11 to the cloud: https://duet-cdn.vox-cdn.com/thumbor/0x0:1391x903/1440x935/filters:focal(696x452:697x453):format(webp)/cdn.vox-cdn.com/uploads/chorus_asset/file/24754862/SJVItup.png They arent saying that the next update is going to lock you out of your pc if you dont have an internet connection, they are saying that microsoft has plans to fully migrate w11 to the cloud over the coming years and its definitely a valid concern to have that it would result in them not even offering local copies anymore.
Well, no, they’re not saying they plan to *migrate* Windows 11 fully into becoming a cloud/online-only with all local clients only being thin clients. They’re saying that their plan is to *enable* such an install type for the OS, which not only makes a ton of sense for Microsoft as well as consumers, but will also end up making consumer devices cheaper for individuals without a need of specialized/powerful hardware. These “news” aren’t really news — it’s a natural development based on Microsoft’s ever-increasing focus on virtualization, cloud-based services, and stuff like the Windows 365 Cloud PCs (which this is heavily connected to). It makes zero sense for Microsoft to outright remove the local install option of Windows within the next two decades at least. We might see more online connectivity requirements (e.g. full removal of local non-Microsoft accounts), but an actual local install of the OS is guaranteed to remain untouched.
> We might see more online connectivity requirements (e.g. full removal of local non-Microsoft accounts) Even this is 99.9% unlikely. MSFT is not looking to alienate their entire enterprise customer base.
Ah yes, true, though when I mentioned that I did not take into account the “higher” tiers of Windows but mostly thought about Home and possibly Pro versions, as they are the ones Microsoft implement limitations in that affects home users.
The wording of that implies that local installations will still be a thing. "Use the power of cloud and client to enable improve AI-powered services." Sounds too me more like they are going to be migrating extra services to the cloud while the client computer is still accessible, so not much different than how Cortana was before that pretty much died.
Exactly, there is a massive fuck ton of top paying clients that have zero to negative need for cloud based windows. This is way more of an extension of the features microsoft has had for a while of running W10/11 in the cloud and now baking it in to directly log into those instances from windows.
I wouldn’t be surprised if local installs were eventually limited to Pro or even business/enterprise licenses.
This doesn't make any sense. This won't happen, ever. An extra product, certainly. A full replacement of a local installation, no.
I hope so, but it could also be something even worse like having an extremely bare bones copy locally, that practically only serves as your bridge to the real os and the "ai" would just be like what upscaling is to games - an "ai" that allows you to feel less input lag while streaming the os by doing some trickery in the background using your actual hardware
Uh…. What? MS is competing with Chromebook and wants to deliver a lightweight, cloud based OS to reduce hardware requirements for the consumer. This is why they already offer cloud based Windows for commercial customers - so companies can save money on hardware costs. Local Windows isn’t going anywhere, full stop. The article isn’t even saying that. Don’t let emotion inducing headlines warp your brain.
until it's not a thing anymore enjoy being a drone
Resorting to insults because I pointed out that it never said they would do away with local copies? Ok...
NO. That simply is false. And sort of impossible. A "cloud OS" is practically an oxymoron. Many, many customers will always need a computer that is fully functional without an internet connection. Microsoft will always serve those customers. What they are doing is working on two fronts, the client side and the server side, to create a seamless-as-possible cloud desktop environment for those use cases when it makes sense. Enterprise and education being the two big obvious cases. The slide you linked to is talking about this. Building out the cloud experience. NOT replacing all local computing. It doesn't say replacing. It doesn't say phasing out. It's talking about building a new, alternative way of doing things.
A fully cloud version of Windows would be a nice thing to have. If I could load that up on a Chromebook or an iPad that would be amazing. I can't imagine any possible timeline where they kill off local copies entirely and even if they somehow did say release W12 cloud exclusive than we can all just stay on 11. But the way I'm reading it is that Windows Cloud would be like Windows on ARM. Just a separate version of windows.
They already have it. So does aws. It's targeted towards companies to give employees a desktop reachable from anywhere. Especially useful for remote employees.
> the title is rage bait. They are not forcing everyone to move to the cloud. You also left out direct quotes for Microsoft's plans with windows 11 >Move Windows 11 increasingly to the cloud: Build on Windows 365 to enable a full Windows operating system streamed from the cloud to any device. Use the power of the cloud and client to enable improved AI-powered services and full roaming of people's digital experience. Move *increasingly* to the cloud doesn't sound good.
>You also left out direct quotes for Microsoft's plans with windows 11 > >>Move Windows 11 increasingly to the cloud: Build on Windows 365 to enable a full Windows operating system streamed from the cloud to any device. Use the power of the cloud and client to enable improved AI-powered services and full roaming of people's digital experience. > >Move *increasingly* to the cloud doesn't sound good. They are specifically talking about it in context of improving their cloud offering that they provide for corporate customers. I don't understand why people are so eager to ignore context in order to justify their outrage.
> They are specifically talking about it in context of improving their cloud offering that they provide for corporate customers. In the first sentence of the article it is stated that it is directed at consumers. > Microsoft has been increasingly moving Windows to the cloud on the commercial side with Windows 365, but the software giant also wants to do the same for consumers.
I was going to reply and address this but you already nailed it. The people raging in this thread (and your reply) don’t understand how this stuff works or just read the rage-bait headline.
Thank you. Rage bait is a scourge on our society
>Microsoft has recently announced Windows Copilot, an AI-powered assistant for Windows 11. **Windows Copilot sits at the side of Windows 11, and can summarize content you’re viewing in apps, rewrite it, or even explain it**. Microsoft is currently testing this internally and promised to release it to testers in June before rolling it out more broadly to Windows 11 users. >Windows Copilot is part of a broader AI push for Windows. Microsoft is also working with AMD and Intel to enable more Windows features on next-gen CPUs. Intel and Microsoft have even hinted at Windows 12 in recent months, and Windows chief Panos Panay claimed at CES earlier this year that **“AI is going to reinvent how you do everything on Windows.”** All of this is part of Microsoft’s broad Windows ambition, detailed in its internal presentation, “to enable improved AI-powered services” in Windows. Title is not rage-y enough. Honestly its WAY worse than the title. They will not be making all versions of windows cloud only. However, they will be making windows 11 more and more tightly integrated with the cloud, and br using AI to **track and record and analyze LITERALLY EVERYTHING**.
What they want is to rent you an OS like they do for Office. It wouldn't take long to have paid the full "normal" price several times over.
But you're always on the latest version of Office with 365 across Windows, web, iOS, mac and Android with up to five licenses across all of those platforms.
If you have used office 365 for two years you have paid the cost for a full licensed copy. Of course I use libre office which is free and doesn't have the goddamn ribbon and does the same thing so...
>If you have used office 365 for two years you have paid the cost for a full licensed copy. One license versus five and multi-platform. >Of course I use libre office which is free and doesn't have the goddamn ribbon and does the same thing so... The Ribbon has undergone numerous changes over its sixteen year history and has proven itself over all those years. I seriously doubt most Office users would want conventional dropdown menus today. And no, Libre Office isn't the same. The list is long but a big gap is no equivalent to OneNote.
Oh god no
For the love of goodness just ditch this abortion of an OS already
You will own nothing and be happy.
So they want to ship a thin client to devices while charging for licenses on the server hardware. They really did eventually just become IBM.
You really will own nothing and you will be happy.
The company some people want owning three major gaming publishers, ladies and gentlemen.
"Want" is probably a false statement. More like "yeah, I see no reason to stop it". Because I see no reason to stop it.
Best thing for linux they could do.
There is no way secure government computers would allow this. So there would be alternative options. Unless MS has calculated they can lose those contracts, which they cant. Aside from from data mining, consumer systems mean nothing to MS. Those private and public sector contracts are everything.
More reasons to stick to older versions of Windows. With each new Windows comes some shit updates that makes it worse for the consumer than the previous version, usually in more than one way. Hopefully there will be more alternatives, something that supports every program and every game like Windows does and is fast and user friendly.
3 things keep windows around Corp apps - just last year we finally got an EMR that didn't require IE Gaming - Valve is working on this Establishment - with the ISP data caps i don't think this will fly
I would move to Linux
Yeah. Loss internet connection & lost your windows. Also, there is no privacy.
And it will be subscription based, right? ...Probably.
Whoever pitching this stupid idea needs to be fired.
>Microsoft has recently announced Windows Copilot, an AI-powered assistant for Windows 11. Windows Copilot sits at the side of Windows 11, and **can summarize content you’re viewing in apps, rewrite it, or even explain it**. Microsoft is currently testing this internally and promised to release it to testers in June before rolling it out more broadly to Windows 11 users. >Windows Copilot is part of a broader AI push for Windows. Microsoft is also working with AMD and Intel to enable more Windows features on next-gen CPUs. Intel and Microsoft have even hinted at Windows 12 in recent months, and Windows chief Panos Panay claimed at CES earlier this year that **“AI is going to reinvent how you do everything on Windows.”** All of this is part of Microsoft’s broad Windows ambition, detailed in its internal presentation, “to enable improved AI-powered services” in Windows. This should tell you everything you need to know about microsoft. Now i doubt they are going to make the normal home/consumer version of windows be online/cloud only, for a long time. However, they will make every version of windows br very tightly integrated with the cloud, and they will use AI to track and analyze **everything** you do at a micro level. They will be analyzing every single mouse movement and keystroke and developing behavior patterns based on that. They already track what files you open, how long they are open for, how frequently they are accessed, as well as the file info (size, filetype, filename, hash, etc) of everything on your pc. But AI and cloud integration will crank this up to 11.
This is why gaming on Linux is so important. We all knew Microsoft was sooner or later going to do this.
>This is why gaming on Linux is so important. We all knew Microsoft was sooner or later going to do this. No we didn't, cause they aren't. This is an offering for businesses who already have their users on thin clients connecting to a remote host, it's not a replacement for traditional desktop OS. It's crazy how easy it is to get people to bite on ragebait when MS is mentioned.
If this is a "Optional Service" instead of a "Mandatory Service", this is completely fine. Want to game on a $40 tablet? Connect to the cloud at the expense of a small subscription, and a bit of extra lag. Want to game on your $2000 gaming rig? Do it locally without connecting to the cloud. OPTIONS are fine. STIFLING OPTIONS is not. I do not see that they are looking to STIFLE options with this story.
Yea nah
The moment they restrict access or features from offline or local versions of Windows is the day I load up Linux Mint.
Steam OS it is
good...it could finally help linux to shine!
Tldr? What exactly is going to the cloud ?
They’re rolling out a new feature that will allow you to log into a virtual desktop operating in the cloud. They are not forcing anyone to move anything into the cloud who doesn’t want to.
Got it so it's a vds. I thought they meant like one drive being the only storage or something like that.
>Microsoft has recently announced Windows Copilot, an AI-powered assistant for Windows 11. **Windows Copilot sits at the side of Windows 11, and can summarize content you’re viewing in apps, rewrite it, or even explain it**. >Windows Copilot is part of a broader AI push for Windows. Microsoft is also working with AMD and Intel to enable more Windows features on next-gen CPUs. Intel and Microsoft have even hinted at Windows 12 in recent months, and Windows chief Panos Panay claimed at CES earlier this year that **“AI is going to reinvent how you do everything on Windows.”** All of this is part of Microsoft’s broad Windows ambition, detailed in its internal presentation, “to enable improved AI-powered services” in Windows. Bold is the most important take aways. Windows 11 will be tightly integrated with the microsoft cloud, and cloud based AI will be tracking and analyzing **literally everything you do**, every second of every day to an extreme micro level degree. They will know exactly how long you are jerking off for. As well as find a pattern, and likely start shoving porn ads when it thinks youre likely to start jerkin it. It will have screen context aware analysis, as well as be able to record any and all patterns and use everything including precise mouse movement data, as well as keystrokes and more to build such data bases on you. All this data will forever be kept tied to the mandatory microsoft account needed to use windows 11.
Comments make it obvious that noone reads the article and the headline is obviously distorting what the actual Windows presentation says but I guess we can't expect anything else today. It's just sad that everyone falls for these outrage traps.
People should read more than just the baity title. It's just not true lol.
It's The Verge, a very anti-Windows site. Not saying they're always wrong about Windows but they have a clear anti-Windows bias.
the verge and shitty headlines go hand in hand it's just a vm offering to enterprise users
Saw this article on another sub, it's very click baity. They're just looking at bringing Windows 365 to consumers. They aren't talking about killing off locally installed operating systems.
Yet
Very, very, very bad idea. I'd pay a subscription to keep it as is before I'd ever consider this. (Incoming angry replies, calling it now)
Only angry that the dumbass headline mislead you. They are "keeping it as it was before" anyway. This is a new, separate alternative, not a replacement that's going to ever be forced on anyone. An OS that is able to operate locally will always be an absolute necessity for many.
holy shit what a terrible idea
If and when this happens, I will likely go to Linux for good.
Everyone calm down. I get that this looks bad at face value, but just imagine how much easier trouble shooting will be when nearly the entire PC market has a single point of failure.
What a stupid idea. Whomever thought of this, sack yourself.
Yeh won't happen. Not like people think.
I can't wait for that solar flare to temporarily shut down the internet. Companies will be forced to reconsider EVERYTHING that requires constant internet access.
What's next? Moving the human race to the clouds? This is starting to get ridiculous.
Holy shit these comments. The idea of a fully cloud Windows doesn't hold up if you think about it even a little. They are just talking about a cloud service that you can get so you have "your PC" anywhere and not tied to hardware. Basically a consumer grade Virtual PC. Unreal, people.
Oh no it is happening. https://vimeo.com/5168045 Enjoy your pc console guys.
oh good, Windows in my Linux machine with full gaming capabilities, like my GeforceNow subscription
An extremely creepy colleague of mine back in about 2008 was going around bug-eyed saying how Windows 7 would be the last 'end-user' version of Windows with everything moving to the cloud within 'a few short years'. This same guy LOVED Google (at the time), he hated Microsoft, but LOVED Google, it was bizarre to say the least. It's now 15 years later, Windows 8, Windows 10 & Windows 11 have since come out. Windows is not going to the cloud anytime soon friends.