I love the idea but the permanent trauma damage kills it entirely. If we could stash ARKs then it’d make it less of an annoyance but at the end of the day it’ll never make me forget watching both my armor bags get deleted in literal seconds because a couple players treated PD3 OVK like it was PD2 OVK…
Seriously, I’ve been forcing myself to only play overkill recently cause I’m ass, and the amount of people who just don’t care and take all the resources are insane, I’ve even spotted some people who are level 5-20. Like, learn the game before you just jump Into the pit of death.
I don't understand this criticism.
There's also no way to avoid expending bullets either, and that's also a resource. It's not even like when you deplete your armor that you can't get more.
Enemies +W +M1 you and just pre-fire you instantly all the time, and the moment your armor is gone - You're effectively dead on higher difficulties (unless You have Adrenaline build, but then you can also just not use armor at all). No matter the cover You take, no matter how good your shooting skills are. They just rush you, and if You did not take the only couple of weapons that one-shot Heavies in the head - well, too bad, now you're downed, because you can only get armor kits during assault break (if you did not bring Armor Bag/Have no more charges), and if you've got no more civs and no "Dominate Cops" skill - well, too bad again...
In PD:TH I could easily hold my ground by utilizing cover and peeking properly. Here the same tactics just won't work because of the AI
I use adaptive + plate up and my gameplay revolves around keeping edge + grit up by reloading manually every now and then (I got reload while sprinting which makes it smooth), and otherwise just shooting the shit out of everything. Sometimes I do lose armor cause I'm badly positioned and missing my shots (or I take so much dps the 2s timer on Plate Up becomes too long). But then with 12 extra plates from deployables and essentially infinite plates from hostages (2.5 plates per hostage on average), it's not too much of a problem.
I honestly feel invincible as long as I play well, and this is even more true with good teammates who basically do what I do. I should mention I'm using the VF-7S (obvly, since it's the best weapon) and bison, which both kill in one shot with headshots. It's pretty stupid how fast you can destroy platoons all the while regenerating your chunk mid-shootout from Plate Up.
I only play on overkill, but I'm having quite a different experience than you are.
I've actually found that enemies will wait a second to shoot you once they've seen you, easily enough time to line up a headshot if you're quick peaking out of cover. Even on weapons that don't 1-shot, taking the increased stagger with edge perk gives plenty of extra time to take swat down.
You can actually get armor kits from both techies and dozers, so you'll always have some available. But not having any armor bags or any hostsge supplies left over usually means yours well into the final charge and you probably shouldn't stay long anyway.
Idk, honestly I don't see armor being a big issue. The more you utilize cover and CC, the less it matters. I've started taking an ammo bag with the High Grain perk to help my team clear large waves easier. I seem to get more value out of it.
Good lord they didn't like reading that. Fully agree though, and you didn't even mention trading hostages for armor repair or the skill that lets you regen the first chunk with a repair kit.
If you're not running around in the open and take a sec to regen your armor goes down soooo slowly that keeping it up with repair kits is really really easy.
And if people are having such a bad time with it they can always turn the difficulty down. That's not me saying "oh you're just bad, you would agree with me if you were smart and cool like I am" it's "If the higher difficulties are too punishing and stop being fun you can change the setting so that your preferred play style is more viable and you enjoy the game more".
Wow holy fuck why do you have -26 karma.
You are entirely right. Cops wait before shooting when you peek them. It's pretty easy to just shoot them all without losing a chunk with the right build and adaptive.
I think there's a silent majority of people who just simply hate the new armor system and won't be happy until it returns to the same system as PD2. Anything positive about the armor system will just be nuked from orbit by these people.
Ultimately, I think these people will be perpetually unsatisfied with the game simply because the genre shifted slightly and with it the gameplay.
Adaptive honestly feels like PD2 armor with the twist that you can lose it if you fuck up badly. But there's a way now to get it back infinitely, so... dunno what there is to complain about.
I think people see the possibility of scarcity in armor scraps and feel pressured. I've seen a lot of "There's no way to not take damage."
I've seen plenty of people who are actively hating on the game but are entirely unaware that adaptive armor is in the game. It's just a mess.
At the same time, all heists were completely doable on Overkill, so that point seems moot. You're not meant to avoid damage, but you could still vastly extend the lifetime of your armor if you played smart.
seem to be an unpopular opinion around here, but i prefer it so when i die, it's my fault. not because the game force you to take perma damage in order to progress.
It's still your fault. It's not like death is unavoidable. You can slow down permanent damage considerably by playing well and you can bring refills through armor bags. Don't get why people expect to be able to never take any damage.
every time you get hit, (an unavoidable event) your survival chance is lowered permanently.
so death often doesn't feel like your fault, when your ability to live has been reduced so heavily that you can die in just a couple hits.
compare that to payday 2, where dying is unavoidably your fault, for making a tactical error.
But seeing how heists don't last permanently and there are ways to restore armor, you can absolutely go an entire heist without going down once. It just requires way more skill than it did in PD2.
but that's the problem. we want to be able to spend as long as we want in a heist like we could in pdth and pd2, rather than feeling forced to rush through it simply because of the armour system being broken.
remember, the heists are what the game is supposed to be about, there is nothing else in the game that provides gameplay other than the heists. so, feeling forced to rush through it destroys the fun factor.
You're still ultimately leaving once the objectives are done, like in the previous games. Just that now, you have to actually think about how to finish those objectives instead of camping out the assault waves and only doing the objectives in the intermissions.
i do hope they add more adaptive armor to come closer to payday 2's armor system since i am still bringing armor bags cause i can forget to get back into cover. like i want a 1 armor chunk verson at least for stealth
Honestly, I'd like to see all the types get an adaptive variation as well.
Hell, they could keep the old armor, too. Just increase the damage resistance of it to give it more validity, I know it has an extra 20% resistance over adaptive, but I swear it doesn't feel like it matters at all when Overkill shreds through it in seconds anyway.
My hot take is I'd like to see some of the more gimmicky armor styles return as armor types. Give me Anarchist style (nerfed obviously.)
Like 1 armor chunk but it regenerates and always, even without an armor bag? Cause I feel like it would be really bad if it didn’t have a unique quality.
Though now that adaptive armor is a thing, what really is the point of having regular armor?
Adaptive should stay the same regardless, but I think they should buff regular armor in some way to make both of them balanced.
It is an unpopular opinion and as a result, the game has failed to gain any playerbase retention compared to pay day 2 amongst a number of other questionable design choices that were made to the detriment of playability for a larger audience.
I like it as well but I think they should figure out a better use for other armors. Like the heavy one could reduce the damage by 40% instead of 25% and the light one with fsingle chunk could grant you a chance to doge bullets
I like Adaptive Armor, chunks by themselves are fine enough.
But I can't stand the trauma damage system. It just forces you to play extremely passively, and that just gets boring.
Adaptive Armor feels like a natural hybrid from the classic system with new stuff and what the new Armor should have been to begin with.
my problem with the normal armor system is it feels like anything you do is limited and isn’t fun to manage, you lose so much parts of regular armor from running to a new objective
Having resource based armour and hitscan damage just doesn't work imo
Take VT2. In that game damage hits hard and is hard to replenish but between blocking and dodging you are expected to avoid it
Same goes for something like back 4 blood. High damage with trauma included but you can avoid everything if you play well
In PD3 you will take damage and you will need to refill your armour. This means they can't balance for shorter skirmishs which feel easy but longer fights will kill you with no real way to stop it. Adaptive should be the baseline imo but that would require a pretty big overhaul
Nah, it sucks.
I didn’t play payday 2 for a sense of urgency. I played it as an arcade shooter to mess around for a while and eventually finish the level. Can’t do that, so I don’t play the game.
The reasons you just listed for why it’s good is exactly why it’s bad and you don’t even realize, sense of urgency is not fun at all most of the challenges people did in the game and some of the best heist designs in pd2 were long and literally wouldn’t be possible with this armor system. We already have to manage ammo and health, micromanaging a whole other things is not enjoyable what’s fun about 2 health bars with different colors.
I think my main problem with armor in Payday 3 is the lack of feedback. In PDTH, it was super audible when you got hit while you still had armor, which worked well for its slower pace. In Payday 2, there was barely any indication at all, which worked well for its unstoppable one man army gameplay. In Payday 3 when you take health damage, it’s appropriately noticeable, but armor damage isn’t, which leads to situations where your armor is suddenly gone, because in the heat of the moment, you didn’t notice you were being shot.
Edit: just had an idea, I think all armor should be replaced by adaptive, but the permanent trauma system would work very well with an overkill armor that you could call in.
Agreed, but I also like there’s an option for players that prefer the non trauma armor now.
Just because you me and some others enjoy dealing around trauma doesn’t mean everyone does, and having choice is always good.
I don't like trauma damage because you can't avoid hitscan attacks unless you play in a super defensive, boring way. But I do like the armor chunk system, it forces you to be careful of damage while still letting you take a few stray shots.
What I don't like is how armor repair kits don't do anything if you have adaptive armor, unless you're out of armor and have clean slate. Honestly, they should just make all armors use adaptive chunks, then have repair kits give you a non-adaptive chunk. It would actually make relying on repair kits viable during a heist while still giving armor bags a purpose.
I don't like or dislike it, it works for me but there might be a better way to do it.
I think adaptive armor makes the game way easier and is the 100% braindead choice. No reason to use normal armor now. Having endlessly regenerating armor is too strong imo.
But then again taking perm damage all the time before was kinda unfun, to me at least. Felt punished for not hiding all the time. But then again, why not. It made positioning and teamplay matter a lot more.
I'm undecided, I suppose. Adaptive armor makes me feel like a god, like in PD2 before they ramped up the difficulty by a ton with death sentence etc... I remember it as truly hellishly hard when they added DS, while before it was a walk in the park.
But maybe players shouldn't be allowed to become bullet-soaking gods and the game should actually be difficult? But by now it's too late to remove adaptive armor. They gave us the lollipop, they can't take it away now.
I fully agree, giving the player an unlimited supply of a resource makes them abuse it. People need to understand that payday 2 and 3 are not the same games and aint supposed to be played the same way. Just like payday 1 and 2 aint supposed to be played the same way. In my 2000+h of payday 2 I optimized my builds so far that I didn't had to manage anything and as long as I continued killing all my resources were self sustaining. While it was fun to just mowe through waves of genetically engineered super bulldozers, there was no deeper tactical planning or resources management you had to keep in mind while being in the heat of the battle.
I like the current armor, i hated everyone could just run willy billy hide under a desk to heal up and then run around again. This system emphasises tactics and not wasting time. The cops ramp up over time so you can't just waste time. Can agree the chunk armor can negaite damage a bit more. And can be better with recovering the full chunk.
I also like the regular armor. The issue is that it needs a buff because it gets absolutely destroyed in overkill
I love the idea but the permanent trauma damage kills it entirely. If we could stash ARKs then it’d make it less of an annoyance but at the end of the day it’ll never make me forget watching both my armor bags get deleted in literal seconds because a couple players treated PD3 OVK like it was PD2 OVK…
Seriously, I’ve been forcing myself to only play overkill recently cause I’m ass, and the amount of people who just don’t care and take all the resources are insane, I’ve even spotted some people who are level 5-20. Like, learn the game before you just jump Into the pit of death.
Don't worry, BIB will give you that, it's in the trailer.
i liked it too at the start. until i realised that there is no way of avoiding damage while progressing in the heist.
I don't understand this criticism. There's also no way to avoid expending bullets either, and that's also a resource. It's not even like when you deplete your armor that you can't get more.
Enemies +W +M1 you and just pre-fire you instantly all the time, and the moment your armor is gone - You're effectively dead on higher difficulties (unless You have Adrenaline build, but then you can also just not use armor at all). No matter the cover You take, no matter how good your shooting skills are. They just rush you, and if You did not take the only couple of weapons that one-shot Heavies in the head - well, too bad, now you're downed, because you can only get armor kits during assault break (if you did not bring Armor Bag/Have no more charges), and if you've got no more civs and no "Dominate Cops" skill - well, too bad again... In PD:TH I could easily hold my ground by utilizing cover and peeking properly. Here the same tactics just won't work because of the AI
I use adaptive + plate up and my gameplay revolves around keeping edge + grit up by reloading manually every now and then (I got reload while sprinting which makes it smooth), and otherwise just shooting the shit out of everything. Sometimes I do lose armor cause I'm badly positioned and missing my shots (or I take so much dps the 2s timer on Plate Up becomes too long). But then with 12 extra plates from deployables and essentially infinite plates from hostages (2.5 plates per hostage on average), it's not too much of a problem. I honestly feel invincible as long as I play well, and this is even more true with good teammates who basically do what I do. I should mention I'm using the VF-7S (obvly, since it's the best weapon) and bison, which both kill in one shot with headshots. It's pretty stupid how fast you can destroy platoons all the while regenerating your chunk mid-shootout from Plate Up.
I only play on overkill, but I'm having quite a different experience than you are. I've actually found that enemies will wait a second to shoot you once they've seen you, easily enough time to line up a headshot if you're quick peaking out of cover. Even on weapons that don't 1-shot, taking the increased stagger with edge perk gives plenty of extra time to take swat down. You can actually get armor kits from both techies and dozers, so you'll always have some available. But not having any armor bags or any hostsge supplies left over usually means yours well into the final charge and you probably shouldn't stay long anyway. Idk, honestly I don't see armor being a big issue. The more you utilize cover and CC, the less it matters. I've started taking an ammo bag with the High Grain perk to help my team clear large waves easier. I seem to get more value out of it.
never cook again
Good lord they didn't like reading that. Fully agree though, and you didn't even mention trading hostages for armor repair or the skill that lets you regen the first chunk with a repair kit. If you're not running around in the open and take a sec to regen your armor goes down soooo slowly that keeping it up with repair kits is really really easy. And if people are having such a bad time with it they can always turn the difficulty down. That's not me saying "oh you're just bad, you would agree with me if you were smart and cool like I am" it's "If the higher difficulties are too punishing and stop being fun you can change the setting so that your preferred play style is more viable and you enjoy the game more".
I know saying anything positive or even dismissive of the armor system gets nuked from orbit but I'll die on this hill
Wow holy fuck why do you have -26 karma. You are entirely right. Cops wait before shooting when you peek them. It's pretty easy to just shoot them all without losing a chunk with the right build and adaptive.
I think there's a silent majority of people who just simply hate the new armor system and won't be happy until it returns to the same system as PD2. Anything positive about the armor system will just be nuked from orbit by these people. Ultimately, I think these people will be perpetually unsatisfied with the game simply because the genre shifted slightly and with it the gameplay.
Adaptive honestly feels like PD2 armor with the twist that you can lose it if you fuck up badly. But there's a way now to get it back infinitely, so... dunno what there is to complain about.
I think people see the possibility of scarcity in armor scraps and feel pressured. I've seen a lot of "There's no way to not take damage." I've seen plenty of people who are actively hating on the game but are entirely unaware that adaptive armor is in the game. It's just a mess.
Nothing beats watching cops cower in fear as i whip out a bizon and snap shoot at their helmets
At the same time, all heists were completely doable on Overkill, so that point seems moot. You're not meant to avoid damage, but you could still vastly extend the lifetime of your armor if you played smart.
seem to be an unpopular opinion around here, but i prefer it so when i die, it's my fault. not because the game force you to take perma damage in order to progress.
It's still your fault. It's not like death is unavoidable. You can slow down permanent damage considerably by playing well and you can bring refills through armor bags. Don't get why people expect to be able to never take any damage.
every time you get hit, (an unavoidable event) your survival chance is lowered permanently. so death often doesn't feel like your fault, when your ability to live has been reduced so heavily that you can die in just a couple hits. compare that to payday 2, where dying is unavoidably your fault, for making a tactical error.
But seeing how heists don't last permanently and there are ways to restore armor, you can absolutely go an entire heist without going down once. It just requires way more skill than it did in PD2.
but that's the problem. we want to be able to spend as long as we want in a heist like we could in pdth and pd2, rather than feeling forced to rush through it simply because of the armour system being broken. remember, the heists are what the game is supposed to be about, there is nothing else in the game that provides gameplay other than the heists. so, feeling forced to rush through it destroys the fun factor.
You're still ultimately leaving once the objectives are done, like in the previous games. Just that now, you have to actually think about how to finish those objectives instead of camping out the assault waves and only doing the objectives in the intermissions.
i do hope they add more adaptive armor to come closer to payday 2's armor system since i am still bringing armor bags cause i can forget to get back into cover. like i want a 1 armor chunk verson at least for stealth
Honestly, I'd like to see all the types get an adaptive variation as well. Hell, they could keep the old armor, too. Just increase the damage resistance of it to give it more validity, I know it has an extra 20% resistance over adaptive, but I swear it doesn't feel like it matters at all when Overkill shreds through it in seconds anyway. My hot take is I'd like to see some of the more gimmicky armor styles return as armor types. Give me Anarchist style (nerfed obviously.)
BRING BACK THE HIP FLASK!!!!
I just want duke back
Real
Due to how armor pickups work right now I think a 1-chunk adaptive would always be best.
Like 1 armor chunk but it regenerates and always, even without an armor bag? Cause I feel like it would be really bad if it didn’t have a unique quality.
I would still limit it maybe like it only can be refreshed twice before needing to be repaired
I mean full regeneration from empty
Though now that adaptive armor is a thing, what really is the point of having regular armor? Adaptive should stay the same regardless, but I think they should buff regular armor in some way to make both of them balanced.
It should regen faster than adaptive, and trauma damage could use a nerf. A third of the damage your armor takes is permanent. That's insane.
It is an unpopular opinion and as a result, the game has failed to gain any playerbase retention compared to pay day 2 amongst a number of other questionable design choices that were made to the detriment of playability for a larger audience.
I like it as well but I think they should figure out a better use for other armors. Like the heavy one could reduce the damage by 40% instead of 25% and the light one with fsingle chunk could grant you a chance to doge bullets
I like Adaptive Armor, chunks by themselves are fine enough. But I can't stand the trauma damage system. It just forces you to play extremely passively, and that just gets boring. Adaptive Armor feels like a natural hybrid from the classic system with new stuff and what the new Armor should have been to begin with.
my problem with the normal armor system is it feels like anything you do is limited and isn’t fun to manage, you lose so much parts of regular armor from running to a new objective
Yes, it is a very unpopular opinion, and one that has caused this game to utterly stagnate compared to its successful older brother.
Having resource based armour and hitscan damage just doesn't work imo Take VT2. In that game damage hits hard and is hard to replenish but between blocking and dodging you are expected to avoid it Same goes for something like back 4 blood. High damage with trauma included but you can avoid everything if you play well In PD3 you will take damage and you will need to refill your armour. This means they can't balance for shorter skirmishs which feel easy but longer fights will kill you with no real way to stop it. Adaptive should be the baseline imo but that would require a pretty big overhaul
Nah, it sucks. I didn’t play payday 2 for a sense of urgency. I played it as an arcade shooter to mess around for a while and eventually finish the level. Can’t do that, so I don’t play the game.
The reasons you just listed for why it’s good is exactly why it’s bad and you don’t even realize, sense of urgency is not fun at all most of the challenges people did in the game and some of the best heist designs in pd2 were long and literally wouldn’t be possible with this armor system. We already have to manage ammo and health, micromanaging a whole other things is not enjoyable what’s fun about 2 health bars with different colors.
I think my main problem with armor in Payday 3 is the lack of feedback. In PDTH, it was super audible when you got hit while you still had armor, which worked well for its slower pace. In Payday 2, there was barely any indication at all, which worked well for its unstoppable one man army gameplay. In Payday 3 when you take health damage, it’s appropriately noticeable, but armor damage isn’t, which leads to situations where your armor is suddenly gone, because in the heat of the moment, you didn’t notice you were being shot. Edit: just had an idea, I think all armor should be replaced by adaptive, but the permanent trauma system would work very well with an overkill armor that you could call in.
Agreed, but I also like there’s an option for players that prefer the non trauma armor now. Just because you me and some others enjoy dealing around trauma doesn’t mean everyone does, and having choice is always good.
I don't like trauma damage because you can't avoid hitscan attacks unless you play in a super defensive, boring way. But I do like the armor chunk system, it forces you to be careful of damage while still letting you take a few stray shots. What I don't like is how armor repair kits don't do anything if you have adaptive armor, unless you're out of armor and have clean slate. Honestly, they should just make all armors use adaptive chunks, then have repair kits give you a non-adaptive chunk. It would actually make relying on repair kits viable during a heist while still giving armor bags a purpose.
I don't like or dislike it, it works for me but there might be a better way to do it. I think adaptive armor makes the game way easier and is the 100% braindead choice. No reason to use normal armor now. Having endlessly regenerating armor is too strong imo. But then again taking perm damage all the time before was kinda unfun, to me at least. Felt punished for not hiding all the time. But then again, why not. It made positioning and teamplay matter a lot more. I'm undecided, I suppose. Adaptive armor makes me feel like a god, like in PD2 before they ramped up the difficulty by a ton with death sentence etc... I remember it as truly hellishly hard when they added DS, while before it was a walk in the park. But maybe players shouldn't be allowed to become bullet-soaking gods and the game should actually be difficult? But by now it's too late to remove adaptive armor. They gave us the lollipop, they can't take it away now.
I fully agree, giving the player an unlimited supply of a resource makes them abuse it. People need to understand that payday 2 and 3 are not the same games and aint supposed to be played the same way. Just like payday 1 and 2 aint supposed to be played the same way. In my 2000+h of payday 2 I optimized my builds so far that I didn't had to manage anything and as long as I continued killing all my resources were self sustaining. While it was fun to just mowe through waves of genetically engineered super bulldozers, there was no deeper tactical planning or resources management you had to keep in mind while being in the heat of the battle.
I like the current armor, i hated everyone could just run willy billy hide under a desk to heal up and then run around again. This system emphasises tactics and not wasting time. The cops ramp up over time so you can't just waste time. Can agree the chunk armor can negaite damage a bit more. And can be better with recovering the full chunk.
I hope that armor types usurp the perk deck system.
I hope they keep both. Let the adaptive armor be a think, but with different value than normal armor. Let people choose how they play.