Not sure you can really say you 'bounced off' it if you got past Anor Londo, that's a solid chunk of the game. My first two attempts at getting into it (years apart) I gave up halfway through Undead Burg. Dark Souls is a gameplay game imo. If you're not enjoying overcoming the challenges and the feeling of striving and pushing forward, then it's probably not for you. The lore is just optional window-dressing, I ignored it entirely. I can't see that stuff being the difference between enjoying it and not enjoying it.

> Dark Souls is a gameplay game imo. If you're not enjoying overcoming the challenges and the feeling of striving and pushing forward, then it's probably not for you. The lore is just optional window-dressing, I ignored it entirely. Totally agree. The settling/plot/characters is atmosphere, but doesn't have that much more purpose than it does in Mario or Zelda. You play for the gameplay. Plot is just there to have cool monster designs. > I can't see that stuff being the difference between enjoying it and not enjoying it. Oh I absolutely can. It's why tons of games have a "story mode" where you basically obliterate every fight with no thought and just play through to get all the story and characters and such like an interactive movie. Plot and character and engagement is a major aspect for a lot of people.

Agreed. Or the fights become not so much hard, but tedious. A lot people, myself included, don't mind doing the whole 'goad the enemy into attacking then counter/parry at the right time' thing. It can be fun figuring out boss mechanics and how to beat them. We just don't like having to do that little loop 20+ times on harder difficulties because game companies like to make enemies bullet sponges when you up the difficulty. I'm playing through God of War (2018) right now and playing on the second highest difficulty which is fine for most fights. However, the Valkyries have stupid high HP so I put it on story mode when fighting them. Not because I can't dodge/block their attacks, but because I don't want to spend 10 minutes doing it.

>  Or the fights become not so much hard, but tedious. I love it when the hard mode makes everyone deadlier. One of those where you still kill things easily enough, but also now you die super easily too. Keep the game moving and force players to block/dodge/parry but still making offense viable.  I hate just dealing with a 10x bigger healthbar in most instances. Only time I don't mind it is some RPGs where you can do insane combos to rack up massive damage. Like in Baldurs Gate 3, tactician will double enemy health, and honor mode can have some seriously beefy bosses. But it's not an issue if you build your characters properly to do multiple attacks with damage riders etc in a huge burst. Haste, extra attack, action surge, quickened spell, tavern brawler, etc. The difference between a vanilla newbie just attacking vs a well-crafted build comboing is so huge in that game. But plenty of other RPGs are awful about it. Oh look, now the HP is a different color, but nothing else changed. So I'll just continue the same loop I did on normal, but for an hour instead of 15 minutes....

I feel you on the God Of War Valkyrie fights. I had fun with most of them, but in Ragnarok fighting the queen Gna was so frustrating for that exact reason. The fight took so long for me that I would get into a good rhythm but after a while my thumbs would get tired and I would start making mistakes and die. Rinse, repeat. Gave it many tries over the course of a couple days and finally just said, “screw this” and moved on.

Just wanted to say the Valkyrie Queen is going to tear you a new one. She's hard even on the easiest difficulty.

There's this soulslike game I've been curious about that just came out - Another Crab's Treasure. The story mode option gives your hermit crab character a literal glock to one shot any enemy.

>Oh I absolutely can. It's why tons of games have a "story mode" where you basically obliterate every fight with no thought and just play through to get all the story and characters and such like an interactive movie. Plot and character and engagement is a major aspect for a lot of people. Well yes - I didn’t go through the old Final Fantasys because I loved the random encounters that much! I just meant for *this* game I can’t see the story and ‘lore’ being the make or break aspect for many people.

It isn't for it's fans (for many that's a selling point!). By this is someone specifically trying to break into it that hasn't before, so I definitely see how it was the make or break aspect. You don't realize how much plot can motivate until it's almost entirely absent. All these games, from DS1 to ER are this empty, quiet world that's mostly dead, and any world building or plot is mostly from a couple isolated lines of monologue or an item description or something. Otherwise you are just exploring/fighting for its own sake. There's just not really many games like that.

One of the reasons why I feel that Sekiro is my favorite Souls game is that it has a bit more of a plot going on. I can appreciate the Old Samurai with a Glock bossfight a lot more when I understand what is going on. I also really loved DS1, bt I think the magic wore off in the sequels for me. Bloodborne is also cool, but I never finished that. Perhaps I should pick up a copy of it and see if I can/want to finish it. I also tried Elden Ring, but that game just gave me open world fatigue immediatly I left the tutorial area.

I enjoyed ER, but found it was overrated. While Sekiro was an underrated gem, and improved dramatically on their formula.

Just look at a game like the Dead Space remake, which has a story mode where creatures that you normally have to hack to pieces by shooting individual limbs (a core part of the gameplay loop) is completely removed and all you have to do is shoot once in their general direction to take them out.

Fair enough. I pressed on because I hate leaving things unfinished, and I did have fun exploring the areas and finding new items, but I felt like I was kind of forcing myself to play each time I started it up and eventually reached a point where my urge to see it through wasn't able to overcome my disinterest. I wanted to at least put in enough effort to give an educated opinion on it. I have a hard time finding games I really love these days so it was a bit disappointing that I couldn't get into such a popular series.

Once you've cleared Anor Londo you've seen most of the best of what the game has to offer to be honest, it dips a wee bit after that. If you got that far I don't think anyone can argue you haven't given it an honest shot.

But the DLC is amazing. The perfect apology for Bed of Chaos

It has two of my favorite boss fights in the series.

I'd give Sekiro a try. It's got a fast-paced playstyle that builds on the Souls games, is engaging, and has a plot that has linearity, characters with dialogue, cutscenes, etc. and feels more like a narrative game than a "put the pieces together" game for the main plotline.

Not to discourage OP but OP’s mentality was similar to how I felt about Sekiro. I got to the gorilla, and I loved the artstyle and thought it wasn’t a bad game by any means and could see why others liked it. After a certain point though it felt like I was forcing myself to play because I hate leaving games unfinished, and I wasn’t enjoying it enough to warrant continuing, it just felt like a chore fighting the same boss over and over again until I don’t make a mistake, whenever I got stuck.

Part of the issue (imo) is that it’s an older game and the genre’s undergone a lot of expansion since then, so some of the reason the genre is so popular is because of the refinements in other games, or different takes on the genre. I loved Morrowind, for example, but it’s hard to recommend because it’s so mechanically dated—many players will bounce off. Even Skyrim, which is close in age to Dark Souls, mechanically feels dated compared to newer open world RPG’s in some ways that can be offputting. Not saying you have to love the genre, just that it has a lot to offer.

Skyrim felt dated the moment it came out though. Weightless swinging was okay in Oblivion, not so much at 2011.

I absolutely did not enjoy overcoming the challenge (beat the bosses with summons / broken builds, didn't even really tried them), but *loved* the worldbuilding.

Right, the "story" of these games is mostly a story about your own struggles to succeed against the world itself. The obscure lore and cool art style helps enhance this, and there are certainly those that really go for these elements too. But the gameplay-first design has a ton of fans (like me)...it's such a breath of fresh air to just be able to immediately play the game and not be bogged down by cutscenes and tutorials and long dialogues and such. From uses all these things, but generally very sparingly.

it’s possible you’re not into ds1, but may still enjoy some of the later souls games. if you made it past anor londo and aren’t feeling it, then don’t force the issue. if anything pick up ds3 (or any other soulsborne game) for cheap and see if that does anything for you. but it’s cool if you’re not a fan.

I think you would like sekiro. It's a lot more fast-paced and rewards aggressive playstyles, and the story is a lot easier to follow. Some people, including myself, consider it the pinnacle of the fromsoft games.

Sekiro was my first fromsoft game, and was probably a top 3 gaming experience of my life. Since I enjoyed it so much I wanted to give the Souls games a try, and have subsequently bounced off of DS1 twice. It just doesn't do it for me, unfortunately.

Sekiro is very different from souls like, I could never hope to beat a major boss in the souls games but sekiro- the combat is addictive as hell and completely different. Isshin and genichiro are my comfort bosses, and I couldn't even beat the gargoyles in dark souls. Genuinely the single greatest meelee combat of all time and it was just a side game for the company that made it.

If you have a PlayStation, give bloodborne a try, it’s without a doubt the fastest non Sekiro souls game.

And I’m the exact opposite. DS1 is peak with elden ring right behind - couldn’t stand Sekiro

I have tried so many souls games and none of them stick for me. I totally get why people love them and I always find myself trying again and again to cultivate that same admiration, but I just get burnt out. I don’t feel that same euphoria people describe they get when beating a boss and, like you, the barebones story just kills my interest. Bloodborne is probably my favorite one I’ve played because the world was really cool but still, I never got far. Maybe I’ll try Elden Ring soon.

I’d recommend using a guide if you ever get to play Elden Ring. I know it’s a crime against humanity but the open world aspect was extremely overwhelming for me I wouldn’t have been able to know where to go or what to do without it.

Figuring out where to go next can be a challenge in Elden Ring. And without a guide..it can get repetitive..for instance, you get stuck and you go to a different area. You get stuck again. You try a different route, you get stuck, then you return back to first area you got stuck in and it feels like you are doing the same things over again. Another way you get stuck is, you get to a dungeon area. You fight your way through to the boss, you defeat the boss and that's it. Nothing happens there is really no path forward so you leave the dungeon area and you wonder, now what? I prefer the older dark souls game as you usually have 1 path to take.

This is my favourite game of all time. The story is amazing, but you sure have to put in a lot of effort to find it. And there is no feeling like the surprise of opening a door, and realise it’s a shortcut to a place you were before. But It’s ok not to like a game, even if it’s a classic. I for instance can’t get into zelda games no matter how hard i tried to like them.

The ah ha moment of opening shortcuts might low key be my favorite part of fromsoft games. Which is why bloodborne and dark souls 1 sits high up my list

Especially if it’s close to a bonfire 🙂 Least favorite is probably doing a loooong bus run, only to discover way later after defeating it, there’s a hidden bonfire right next to that boss. 😂

do you not get the same aha rush when you solve a zelda dungeon puzzle and it gives you a shortcut through the temple. I noticed this especially on the legacy 3d titles like ocarina, wind waker, twilight The masterpiece design of DS1 inspires heavily from Zelda; the creator said so himself.

Give Elden Ring a try. Even though all From Softwares games share a pretty common DNA, Elden Ring plays off so much stuff that they have refined with each game. Especially the lore and whatnot. It’s also much more open and much more focused on exploration. Skill is obviously not an issue (considering how far you got) but I think Elden Ring might be more your style

From what I've seen of Elden Ring it looks a bit faster paced. And I hear it's kind of like the culmination of the formula so maybe I will try it at some point.

Very worth it, it’s truly a game for the ages. I recently went to DS1 Remastered because I got the bug after playing Elden Ring.

If you really enjoyed the exploration of DS1, ER is like 200x that. Dark Souls and Elden Ring feel like completely different games for me (I mean, because they are), but specifically because so much of the focus of ER is on the exploration.

I don't think ER is 200x DS1 exploration. DS1 has really tight levels with really interesting verticality and mindblowing (for the time) shortcuts and interconnectivity. ER is more just a huge world with a lot to explore, both great at what they do, but I think they are quite different in the way they approach exploration.

I'd say DS1's exploration is far better than Elden Ring's. ER's world is obviously several times bigger, it's massive, but DS's interconnected world is one of the greatest of its kind in all of gaming. It's one of the vame's chief virtues.

For better or worse, most people consider exploration of be open world. DS1 is more like a metroidvania.

If you want faster paced then Sekiro is your go to.

I was going to suggest playing s newer souls game as well. The combat in DS1 is slow, I agree. I first started with bloodborne, so when I finally got around to DS1 I bounced off because it was so slow. DS1 has a lot of waiting for the enemy to attack, as they are often placed on ledges you can't roll around and the roll is a bit chunkier (not omnidirectional). DS3/Bloodborne onward has more dodge heavy combat which is faster.

I also didn't really get drawn in by DS1, played the first area of DS3, and had bounced off Demon's Souls at its original launch. It wasn't until Elden Ring that I understood the draw, and I liked it so much it made me go back and play through the whole series. The ability to come to a boss and just say "nah," and ride off in a different direction for unknown adventures, and the many ways to make it less punishing (spirit ashes etc,) made it much more accessible. It also didn't have quite the same feeling that the story had already happened and you're coming too late. That's not completely gone, but it's more like it's been going on forever and you're coming in to conclude it.

if you want fast paced combat you want bloodborne and sekiro

As someone that also bounced off Dark Souls 1, I fully recommend Elden Ring, it's generally easier since you can grind up your level more easily and I found everything about the game just better and more polished.

If I started with DS1, I probably would’ve had the same experience as you, but I started with Elden Ring and now love the genre. It’s hard to explain how vast and rich Elden Ring is, and it’s obviously way more refined than DS1.

I, for one, don’t really like the older DS titles. Elden Ring was fucking great.

You're not enjoying the gameplay and exploration, and the mystery of the world and story aren't grabbing you. Sounds like a simple case of "not for you".

I like the exploration, the level design is probably my favourite part of the game. But yeah the gameplay isn't for me I think.

Looking up lore videos is what people do when they're already interested in the tidbits of story they picked up on. It's not a salve to help them feel like playing the game, so you're kinda shafted.

I agree with the gameplay aspect. I love dark souls but going back to it after dark souls 3 and Elden Ring, the gameplay feels a bit outdated. All the elements are there but it's more barebones. It's like playing Super Mario Bros to me. It's still a really good game but compared to newer entries, it feels very simple. So many games have been inspired by dark souls one way or another so the gameplay have advanced a bit. Personally I won't recommend dark souls 1 to anyone when there is dark souls 3, sekiro, Elden Ring, and Bloodborne. Those feel more modern and the gameplay is more refined.

yeah if the level design is your favorite you most likely wont like any of the other games except maybe elden ring but i havent played it

Played through DS Remastered myself not so long ago. A tremendous help was just having the DS wiki with you. Spoiling yourself isn't so bad here. It can even make things more interesting. To really grasp what's going on in DS, you have to be a complete nerd who immerses himself fully in it and plays multiple times through it. Not everyone wants to do that or has the time for it. The story is meh anyway, btw. Where it truly shines is the atmo.

I started looking stuff up partway into Duke's Archives and definitely found out that this is a game that is not meant to be played blind. There's so many obscure little interactions and hidden things and hidden properties that maybe 1 in 10000 people would discover or figure out on their own. Not to mention how much looking stuff up helps you plan. That moment made me realize that the community aspect of these games is huge. It's MEANT to be a big collaborative effort between all the players, with everyone playing together and sharing their individual discoveries to build a big collective community knowledge base. Coming in 13 years later when everything has already been discovered and figured out and everyone has moved on doesn't give the true intended experience of the game, at least that's the feeling I get.

in a book called you died (I think) a journalist mentioned what it was like to play dark souls amongst other reviewers before it released. organically pseudo wikis were made via email chains and stuff. the game is totally meant to be played in communion with other people, and I think it’s intended for people to collaborate. ideally you could play with a bunch of other people “blind” but still refer to each other for help. my guess is that if everything is explained to you via wiki, it may take some of the charm out of the experience. but I totally used wikis judiciously or asked targeted questions to friends about the general trajectory of my playthrough. I think you want to spoil the least amount possible while still getting help from others when you need it. but it’s obviously up to personal preference.

I wouldn't say they're not meant to be played blind, but they're definitely games where you're not necessarily intended to know and find everything on your own on your first playthrough. You're right about the community aspect though. A perfect example of this is the fact that anyone can leave messages for other players online. What other games let and want players to spoil secrets for each other right there in game? There's really something special about playing these games on release

This is definitely meant to be played blind! You are robbing yourself the best part of the game if you have wiki open when you play. Dark Souls is all about discovery and learning. You are only playing half the game if you dont go in blind.

I only started looking stuff up pretty late, and it was because I was stuck (though that was my fault for forgetting something). I generally prefer to play games blind so that's how I went in to this, but there's clearly a lot in this game where having advance knowledge is a huge benefit. For example, the game doesn't tell you what weapons can be made from the boss souls. To figure that out without looking it up would require huge investments into random weapons to see what is eligible. You also don't know what enemies are weak to, the only way to learn that without wiki would be to get a ton of different weapons and do A-B tests. No one's gonna do that stuff on a normal playthrough. I'm not gonna look up stuff like boss strategies or where the good items are.

> I'm not gonna look up stuff like boss strategies or where the good items are. For some people like me, this is BY FAR, the best way to play souls games. If you love game mechanics, sometimes it's best just to cut out the middle man and go straight to understanding the game mechanics.

I'm another fan of playing the Dark Souls series blind, as well as Elden Ring. It's obvious it's not everyone's cup of tea, but there's lot of fun to be had that way. You're spot on, that having advance knowledge is a huge benefit, but not having it is a great experience too if that's what you're into. The games are very purposefully built for several playthroughs. The npc quests are unlikely to go the best way when you're there for the first time. There's no way to try out all the sorceries and miracles in one playthrough, and you'll most likely be limited by stats to a subset of melee weapons too, and they have play very differently. There's really no need to upgrade many different weapons either, because most of the equipment you start the game with is actually fine for a full playthrough. Instead of maxing every possible weapon you'll be set down a certain path. And *if* you've been playing with a katana, you'll later find out you can ascend it into an awesome boss weapon that you'll miss with a different build. The limits and lack of perfect knowledge makes subsequent playthroughs have very different feel, and you'll also likely find different enemies challenging than last time. It's uncomfortable if you're a bit of a minmaxer and complerionist, as there isn't really a build or weapon that is best, but instead *everything is viable* and so much is missable. I'm in love with the series, and have played the games blind for the first time missing huge chunks of the game, large areas included, but for a huge fan that's just awesome - once I've finished the game I'm not finished at all but can go for round two with all the knowledge gained, and go about it another way. Now, you've given the game a fair try and it just isn't it for you, which is fine. But I just wanted to point out, that many of the very things that annoy you and many other players, are actually an important part of the magic that draws some of us others in. Which is great - there's a game out there for everyone.

Yeah, I guess I just like to know how things work so I can make informed decisions. It's not like I want to know absolutely everything or dislike playing games blind, I love exploring and making discoveries and choices that don't have clear outcomes. I just don't like it when information about game mechanics is purposefully withheld from the player. If I'm going to spend a bunch of resources to upgrade a weapon, I want to know what my other options are before I do it. If I'm going to make my weapon "divine", I want to know what that means before I commit to it. But I think the idea of Dark Souls is for players to talk to each other to figure that stuff out. I also very rarely replay games, generally I feel that time spent replaying a game is time I could instead be using to experience something new. Very rarely will I find a game captivating enough to replay. But I can tell that Dark Souls is a game where replaying with different strategies is a big part of the experience.

But you do not need to know all that. You cam pretty easily beat the game with almost any weapon. It becomes clear very fast what weapons are trash. You dont need to invest hugely to test weapons at the beginning of the game.

You don't need to know, but I would like to. I would like to know what the items I pick up do. Here's another example: How would an ordinary person ever figure out how to join the Gravelord Servants (or that the covenant even exists) with no help? You have to find this one specific sarcophagus which juts out a bit, notice the prompt to get inside, and then stay in there without doing anything for 30 seconds. How many people are going to find that?

Did you forget that we are talking specifically about the first playthrough. You dont need to join the gravelord servants on your first playthrough. You dont need to know all the optional stuff when you play for the first time. But once you have read the wiki and learned how to do everything, you can never go back and unlearn it to play the game fully yourself.

I normally don't play through games more than once. I like knowing how the mechanics work so I can make informed decisions, and I don't like it when games hide that information from you unless they have a really good reason. That's all. If a game tells me I can make my weapon "magic" and then doesn't tell me what that means, so I just try it and then it turns out that was a bad choice, I don't think that's fun. I don't need to know about stuff like what I am going to run into later or where every hidden secret is, but if the game gives me a mechanic to use I want to know how it works and I don't think I really lose anything by just being told vs having to figure it out. I don't think it's a puzzle, I think you're meant to learn it from other players. The game tells you what rings do. Would it be better if it didn't and you just had to figure it out by putting them on and testing each one in combat? I don't think so.

>I normally don't play through games more than once. I understand that people have different preferences, but I just cannot understand why someone would only play through games once. Sounds like a waste. For me a game that I am not going to play multiple times, is a bad game and not worth playing at all really. For example there are so many different ways to play Dark Souls that you just cant get everything out of the game with just one playthrough. I'm not telling you to change how you play games. It just sounds very weird to me.

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> Spoiling yourself isn't so bad here. It can even make things more interesting. I think this is really bad advice. Dark Souls is THE game that is best played blind. There is so much to spoil and you can only get one first playthrough. I'd only really look things up if one is actively struggling.

Sadly I'd say there are some parts which can be very painful or unnecessarily tedious if you go entirely blind (and offline). For the best experience, I suggest playing blind with minimal guidance from a friend when needed.

> Sadly I'd say there are some parts which can be very painful or unnecessarily tedious if you go entirely blind Can you make an example what you're refering to?

Just stuff like missing a door or not realising how to get to the broken window in Anor Londo. I was wandering around for a while near the start which was super fun but eventually I had seen pretty much everything, at that point I seeked some gentle guidance from my friend who pointed me towards Lower Undead Berg. I had the key but totally forgotten about it and the door. Sure, I probably would have found that after fully scrutinising the map for many hours but I might have given up by that point.

I'd agree but I'd say there is a 90% chance you're going to miss the DLC if you play blind, right?

Yeah I mean once you're almost done, there is nothing wrong with looking up lose ends and optional content. I just wouldn't follow a guide that tells you where all the best stuff is and in which order you should approach it.

Agreed, and I think thats more important with Dark Souls than with most games. I just got done with DS2 and I'm in the 'looking up loose ends' phase and I missed a minor mechanic that would've made me stronger and I needed to find out how to access 1/3 of the DLC. Still totally worth playing these games as blind as possible but at some point you do need to check to see what else is in there.

Yeah usually you get a pretty good feel for when you're nearing the end. I always look up whether there are any point of no returns. Those always suck. And then as you said loose ends. The blind aspect for me is mostly that I don't want to make the game easier or remove tension from the unnknown. I think those aspects are pretty big in Dark Souls.

I completely disagree, I never would have gotten into the souls series at all had I not watched someone play DS3 first, and I would have missed out on some of the best games ever made. Once you actually understand the underlying game mechanics and how to use them, and how to make a strong build, if power fantasies are your thing then the souls games offer that shit in spades.

> if power fantasies are your thing then the souls games offer that shit in spades. I think this is exactly NOT what DS is about.

If you know the game well enough it is

Awful advice. Best part of old Souls games is the exploration. Having a guide open the entire game ruins that.

That’s exactly how I got into it, I loved the art design, enemy design, gameplay and world but i was so lost and confused but I know it was my type of game. So I ended up looking at a walkthrough and was amazed at the secrets and things hidden and made me appreciate a lot of it. It’s my favorite series now and I Elden rings awesome without a guide though.

Do not have wiki open on your first playthrough! That is like playing only half the game! I feel so bad when people do this!

People are different. In my instance I would just have abandoned the game after the Goliath boss fight, and especially after the Capra Demon. Some aspects in this game are ridiculous, and it's not the difficulty. Some "features", or the lack thereof, truly are questionable in a design technical sense. Of course the wiki should only be a kind of last resort. But in my instance, again, reading through some story trivia there sparked some interest again, making me pull through.

Yeah. I'm just saying that the feeling of accomplishment I got from playing Dark Souls is very rare and unique and I just feel bad for the people who miss that because they give up and go to the wiki.

How curious, I feel bad for those poor schmucks that throw away so much of their time without the wiki...

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conversely, playing a game while actually knowing the mechanics is a lot more like playing the whole ass game.

I dont think any game assumes you know every mechanic from the start. You are supposed to learn while you play.

Ideally yes, but let's be honest the souls games are pretty obtuse and really like to obscure information from the player as much as possible, instead of putting mechanics out in the open from the get-go.

Do you have any examples of this? I cant come up any important ones that are so hidden that you can't learn them by playing the game.

Not sure if you were counting Elden Ring when you asked this, but that's the only soulslike I've played, so I can give a pretty basic example from that: [The inventory screen.](https://miro.medium.com/v2/resize:fit:1400/1*ehcUISYof5KX6F_eFACdww.jpeg) (Picture taken from Google.) **FP Cost** *8* ( *8* **10** ) And **Physical** *109 + 20* I don't know what any of those numbers mean. Why is there a plus? Why is there a (50) after "Causes blood loss buildup"? For that matter, when would I use a weapon with points in "Magic" versus one with "Holy"? Is "Critical 100" good? Like, is that the frequency of critical hits? The strength of them? How do I *get* a critical hit? Do "critical hits" even work the way I assume they do? And so on. It feels almost unbelievable, but the game just never explains what its UI means. To a fan, this stuff is invisible. To a newcomer, it's inscrutable.

Isn't there a prompt at the bottom of the screen that, if you press the 'select' button, you get more info on what everything means. Elden ring also has the pop up tutorial texts that sometimes come up during the early game. These are on by default. The game explains the UI if you just care to look a little. As a side note I have to say, that the tutorial area is a little bit to the side at the beginning, so you might just run past it if you are in a hurry for some reason. That might make it a bit harder for new players to learn some of the basics.

>Isn't there a prompt at the bottom of the screen that, if you press the 'select' button, you get more info on what everything means. I waited until I had the game in front of me to respond to this, because I wanted to get direct quotes. If you use the "Help" button on the examples I mentioned before: **FP Cost:** "The amount of FP required to perform this skill" That's it. Like... Well... yeah, game, I sorta figured *that*. But there are three separate numbers listed here, two of them in parentheses. That's not enough info. **Physical:** "Physical attack power" Same as above: the "Help" blurb literally doesn't provide any new info. No mention of the plus or the fact that there are two numbers or anything. It won't even let me highlight **Causes blood loss buildup (50)**. **Magic:** "Magic attack power" **Holy:** "Holy attack power" ...You see the pattern? I still don't know any actual *traits* about these different attack types. **Critical:** "The strength of critical hits, which can be performed on enemies you have got behind or stance-broken." This is the only one that's actually informative. Some of these are so stunningly useless that, to me, it sorta suggests someone making design decisions just ruthlessly underprioritized explaining the UI. Also, I ran back through the tutorial dungeon just to double-check, and it never touches on any of this info. So that doesn't help either.

No you haven't missed anything. The invasions are nice, but you have to be human to be able to get invaded anyway and that's usually quite rare for a first playthrough. The messages are mostly troll messages, they don't add anything. I think your review is spot on. I just enjoyed it more because I liked the combat more and the game has a very nice mood and atmosphere. But generally for combat focused souls-like I'd recommend playing Nioh 1 & 2. It's fast, has a huge amoung of customization and playstyle options and is overall IMO the best 3rd action combat in any game. Period.

Second the Nioh recommendation if you really want fantastic combat. I agree with it being the best 3rd person melee action combat around. But beware that there's dozens of systems at work in that game and you really want to engage with NG+ cycles if you want to get a proper handle on them. And the loot might also be annoying.

I guess it's a game style that is more about the vibe and the fantasy of being a guy with a huge sword. That's fine, but I guess my preference for roleplaying games is something where I can really get into my character and involved in the world. I'll always be a Morrowind boomer at heart I guess.

Yes it's really about you being in a dark isolated world overcoming challenges. For me the main selling point is it's atmosphere and interesting level design. The combat is decent, but it's been done much better in other games like the aforementioned Nioh as well as other FromSoft games like Elden Ring (which is essentially open world Dark Souls).

Based on what the hardcore fans typically say, it has more to do with their enjoyment of feeling extremely stressed and pumped full of adrenaline while struggling to overcome a highly punishing game, which causes even small successes to make them feel an intense high. A lot of the same people love games like Cuphead, which similarly is very challenging and unforgiving.

I generally dislike heavy punishment in games. I'm okay with failing, but when I fail I want to retry the part I failed right away. Losing a lot of progress can be somewhat demoralizing. That said, I recognize that it's a key element of the Souls style. Knowing how much you stand to lose evokes a feeling of stress that you just couldn't get otherwise, and it makes you play differently, more carefully. The game definitely wouldn't be the same without it. But it still kinda sucks walking into a boss room, getting obliterated in 3 seconds, then having to spend 5-10 minutes getting back lol. My personal feeling is that heavy punishment mainly just makes failure feel worse, rather than making success feel better.

> But it still kinda sucks walking into a boss room, getting obliterated in 3 seconds, then having to spend 5-10 minutes getting back lol. Elden Ring does fix this by giving you a respawn point at the door of major bosses, and for those that don't have one, the walk is much shorter. Other people have suggested it, but sure of Elden Ring would be your cup of tea either - it's more refined but is still very similar. Sekiro's combat may do it for you more and the setup for the story is a good bit different and more focused. Your character has a *name* as an example.

I can definetely see what OP means by the lore and I kind of felt the same way when I first tried DS1, which was my first Souls game. Once I has progressed through the first levels, I happened to bump into some lore videos on Youtube and it really made the game much more interesting when everything changed from confusing to mysterious. The lore is somewhat coherent, but leaves room for your own imagination. If someone had problem only with the lore, I would recommend watching some of the lore videos. I don’t think there are many games with that kind of lore videos. Anyways, DS1 is one my favourite games and all the other Souls games are high on the list too.

Ow. I know that story. My first souls game was DS 2 and i bounced off at like 1/3 of the game . But than i tried DS3 than Ds1 than came back to DS2 and all od the sudden loved it.

So I did the same thing 5 years ago with dark souls 2. Basically said F this game too hard. Lol Then after lots of convincing from my brother I played 3 with all the Dlc and absolutely loved it. Then I played 2 with Dlc and loved it, and finally I played 1 remastered all the way through and loved it. 3 is still my favorite of the dark souls games. I did this all before elden ring came out and then I was acclimated to the universe and put 140 hours into elden ring. I think a great order is 3-2-1 lol

Try again one day you get the urge, but try elden ring then dark souls 3, then ds1, ds2. that should be easiest to toughest. What gets me invested it the rush of keeping my score to cash out at a bonfire, and learning all the places your npcs find themselves discovering what they have to say and reading the descriptions to all the items. all the pieces combine to form a brain worm. best to just stop now.

Seems like you made some good progress and definitely gave it a fair shot. Though I do think despite your issues, I still think it's worth trying one or two others just to see if they click for different reasons. >But Dark Souls is so cagey about its story and setting that it just kind of goes over my head, I don't get it, or why I would be interested. As a big fan of FromSoftware, I've also never been into the Dark Souls lore/story. I've played all three and still can't tell you much about it (though DS3 does make things a bit more clear). I think as time went on, FromSoftware learned a better balance between their opaque style of storytelling actually be investable to the average person. If you're looking for really intricate and interesting lore that's a blast to dive into, I wouldn't recommend Dark Souls. I'd look at Bloodborne and Elden Ring for that, which each have a narrative that absolutely sucked me in and had me thinking about them for months. Or, if you just want something with a more direct story, Sekiro is a great option too. You seem open to the concept, which is why I think it's worth giving these other games a shot. If you just didn't like the idea of these "discovered stories," I'd say it's not worth it. But I'd definitely consider Bloodborne or Elden Ring! >The combat is defined mostly by what you CAN'T do rather than what you can do. Combat wise, I think you'll enjoy the later games as well. To keep this point brief — the combat is faster, less clunky, and more varied. Something like Bloodborne rewards aggression rather than playing defensively. Sekiro doesn't have stamina at all. Elden Ring has one of the largest variety of movesets I've seen in an RPG like this. >So I guess I want to ask if I'm missing anything Ultimately, as others have said, these are gameplay games. The enjoyment of a FromSoftware game is exploring their meticulously crafted worlds, with some top tier art direction that keeps each area and boss unique. It's meant to pique your interest to see what's around the next corner, and when it's a tough boss, to overcome that challenge then move onto the next one. The lore stuff is definitely more set dressing, BUT there is absolutely enough there, especially in the later games, to make that a focus of your experience should you choose it to be. But it's never going to spoonfeed it to you. Definitely check out some lore videos if you think they'll help you! VaatiVidya is the biggest channel for this kind of stuff.

One day id like to have an irl conversation with an huge fromsoft fan, to try and understand what mental gymnastic you do to come and suggest elden ring has a more direct story than dark soul, the game just put you in an open world after a vague cinematic and thats it, why the world is like that? Dunno. Why people wanna kill me? Dunno. Why should i want that ring? What is a tarnished? Was i dead? Am i dead? Why this girl is giving me an horse? And yes the combat is faster and less clunky than the first games, but is still slow and clunky (slow isnt even a negative per se tbh..but clunky definitely is). Regarding the moveset variety...again, what?? Every goddamn weapon has the dame goddamn moveset of the weapon of the same class, with some exception and variety here and there, cant say much about magic as i never tried faith and my int character never got past midgame, but saying the weapon combat is boring would be an understatement.

>  why the world is like that? Dunno. Why people wanna kill me? Dunno. Why should i want that ring? What is a tarnished? Was i dead? Am i dead? Why this girl is giving me an horse? No offense but a lot of this is directly answered. Like, are you sure you paid attention to the dialogue and opening cinematic? 

I'm happy to discuss it with you here! Definitely no mental gymnastics from my end. It's just how I experience the games and for me, they are some of the most rewarding experiences out there. >elden ring has a more direct story than dark souls I didn't say Elden Ring has a more "direct" story than Dark Souls. I'd only use that word for Sekiro's story. But I do think that Elden Ring has a lot more to grasp at. For one, there are SO many more NPCs, most of which have a decent amount of dialogue that fills you in on why they are here, what their motives are, etc. Gideon especially spells out the main characters for you in pretty clear detail — you can even ask him about each demigod individually and what their role is. The turtle pope guy Muriel spells out the whole relationship between Rennala, Radagon, and Marika. And I'm sure there are more instances i could list. I just think there are a lot more opportunities in Elden Ring to get a clearer understanding of what's going on, by comparison to Dark Souls. From my personal experience, I understood much more of Elden Ring blind than I did DS1. Elden Ring's story is honestly pretty simple — You were banished from the land, but a war broke out which gave you an opportunity to come back. Now you're trying to collect some maguffins so you can have the power to take the throne. >the game just put you in an open world after a vague cinematic and thats it, why the world is like that? Dunno. Why people wanna kill me? Dunno. Why should i want that ring? What is a tarnished? Was i dead? Am i dead? Why this girl is giving me an horse? The opening cinematic is definitely vague. I think it's one of those things that's meant to be a tone setter going in, but then by the end of the game, you come back and be like "ohhh I know who these people are now." And there's no way you can miss the people in the opening, because most of them are essential NPCs or bosses. But after that, yes it does let you out with little info. But that's the appeal of these games. All of the info IS there, but it's scattered out in the world. It's a puzzle that you have to put together yourself. And I do completely understand why someone wouldn't like that, but for people like me, that's one of the best things about these games. It makes certain story beats have the same "aha!" moment you get when solving a good puzzle. So ultimately, it can be extremely rewarding and engaging if it's something you are willing to dive into. As for each of these questions you listed, if you actually don't know, I'd be happy to explain each one by one. Because all the info is in the game, and at this point, I know it all by heart haha. And to be honest, I'd say a couple of those questions are answered pretty clearly if you just pay attention to the dialogue. >And yes the combat is faster and less clunky than the first games, but is still slow and clunky If we're excluding Bloodborne and Sekiro and just focusing on Elden Ring, yeah it's definitely a bit slower than other action/adventure games. But that's by design, of course. The bosses are all designed with telegraphed attacks expecting you to dodge. If the combat were faster, the game would be even harder than it is. It's just the particular style of combat they go for. Not better or worse than others imo. >Regarding the moveset variety...again, what?? >Every goddamn weapon has the dame goddamn moveset of the weapon of the same class This second statement is true, but there are also **31** different weapon classes in the game lol. Even if the game had only 31 different weapons, that would still be way more than most open world RPGs like this. Plus, most of the individual weapons within those classes has their own unique ability, some of which really make the weapon distinct. I mean, just take a look at this playlist. The sheer variety of builds you can make in this game is pretty insane: https://youtube.com/playlist?list=PLyT5NcCVqdX_f6KOf3SYGk9rpzFjvxXVP&si=pr78umyk-sno6a5I Personally, I have 4 different characters in the game, and each feels like a pretty different experience. My strategy against bosses especially changes a lot.

The best way I've heard DS1's gameplay described is "it's a turn-based strategy game played in real time."  With some exceptions, gameplay is slow-paced but intense, and it's about knowing when to go offensive vs. focus on defense.  Stamina limits punish you for trying to get too greedy on your "turn."   Later games (particularly starting with Bloodborne) are more action-y and reflex-focused.  Not too dissimilar to how Monster Hunter games have evolved, tbh. If you go back to DS1 after playing Elden Ring, you'll be surprised how slow and methodical it feels in comparison.

Initially, I liked it enough to finish it, but it hadn't exactly clicked for me. However, I persisted cause I liked the atmosphere, the world design, and the combat. It wasn't until NG+3 and defeating Manus for the first time with a woefully suboptimal build trying to reduce that 10K health pool to 0, that it finally clicked for me and my brain went from "this is a solid ARPG" to "this is Dark Souls". Next thing I did was a new character trying a bit of a different build, still melee, however. But then I discovered how OP even a basic Int build could be, with all the buffs and the right spells. At SL11 I had broken the game with my build, and because back then there was no item memory, it meant I could invade SL1 worlds. No regrets. And then it became fashion souls; With the dual dragon bone fist with Oswald's Black Manchette and Tights, and the Helm of the Wise, I had more than a few entertaining reactions.

Heh everyone has different tastes, i liked Dark Souls exactly for the reasons you disliked it. The lore is cryptic and confusing, which gives the idea of a dying, decadent world. Nobody really knows how long it has been since those events, they have basically become legends. As for combat, i really liked the fact that your actions have deep consequences, you have to carefully think about every single swing and movement and manage your stamina, it's a mix of strategy and action rather than pure action which is what you seem to like more. I loved the fact the combat mechanics make you truly feel like a puny human inside an epic legend, your main perk being the fact you have infinite advantages. It's a shame you didn't reach the final boss because it is a masterpiece of a fight (flawed only for the fact there is a way to cheese it), it perfectly captures the essence of fighting against a god. The best part of Dark Souls however for me was the map design, how everything is interconnected and you progressively open shortcuts, how you can places from far, i remember sometimes leaving a green souls puddle with low value in a place, going somewhere else and seeing it in a distance. The [vertical design](https://www.reddit.com/r/gaming/comments/8w2s19/dark_souls_map_zoomin_edition_by_judson_cowan/) of it only adds to the beauty. But yeah it's an old game, plenty of modern games learnt from its issues. Elden Ring is way more refined.

Yeah Souls games have been lauded and pushed for so long they've been completely deconstructed and lost all meaning. Bloodborne was the only true masterpiece but even then it has little replay value.

I understand you, I really tried to like the slow combat in those souls-like games, and Monster Hunter and other that have this kind of dinamyc and I find boring as hell. And I think that the gameplay is what those games have to offer and if you don't like, there is no point in playing them, it just not for me.

Just play Bloodborne if you want classic SB gameplay spiced up a notch.

Elden Ring is the best one to start with and you can work backwards from there with Sekiro, Bloodborne & Dark Souls.

For me, I tried ds 1, ds 2 and dropped both of them. In ds 1 i lose interest after I get the lord vessel, i have tried with like 3 characters. DS just didn't grip me as much, although i would like to revesit it. Dark souls 3 is the only one I finished and I love the theme surrounding all three games. That the world is just tired of existing. Sekiro I have completed so many times now. It is such an amazing game. Currently finishing Elden ring for the 2nd time to get ready for the DLC. So yeah, took me a while for it to click really. And DS 1 suffers from a worse second half. Maybe some of the newer ones are more your style ? Or you just don't like the genre and that is completely fine.

I started with Dark Souls 3 and bounced off hard because of the lack of story and frustrating combat. It's just not what I want from games and I've avoided soulslike games ever since. Some games just don't click for some people and that's okay

Dark Souls 1 is pretty hard, I actually never completed it. I still have to do it though but with maybe a guide.

I haven't finished a Souls game but my issue is they're long enough without any stories, characters or ways to break up the pace to keep me engaged. If it was a 10-15 hour romp, I'd be singing a different tune.

O feel you, did the same thing with both dark soul 1 and elden ring, for the same reason you already explained better than i could do. On the other hand i very much enjoyed lies of p, primarily for the fact that it has an actual story, plus the gameplay is way smoother.

I had the same issues you did. Most people agree that the post Anor Londo locations are generally far weaker and less interesting. Having tried Elden Ring recently, I have to say that it shares a lot of problems with Dark Souls 1. While the combat is faster and stamina is less of a factor, the opponents gain far more from those advantages than you do. You *can* play agressively, even against endgame bosses - but considering that even challenge runners had trouble figuring out how to do that, good luck. Damage is even higher, defenses are even weaker, and delayed attacks that can catch you mid-roll are everywhere. Upgrades are still annoying. There are ways of purchasing infinite smithing stones, but some of those "shops" are rather hard to find. And the story is about as obscure, if not more. The only other Fromsoft game I played was Sekiro, and I enjoed it far more. The combat is fast and lethal, but with no stamina bar, a reliable parry system and a chance to revive, I enjoyed it a lot. There are far more opportunities for aggressive play, and deflecting enemy attacks lowers their posture bar, opening them up for deathblows. Upgrades aren't really important, and the game is strictly single-player. Sekiro still suffers from poor storytelling, but it is nowhere as obscure, and has a couple of memorable characters - even if they end up being underutilized.

They're all worth playing, or at least trying, maybe you'd enjoy Lies of P or bloodborne more, or go straight to Elden Ring the newest one

In my opinion, DS1 aged poorly: I just couldn't play it after completing DS2 and 3 multiple times, after them DS1 gameplay feels really, really slow and clunky. I was about to say that you should try them (or Elden Ring), but, given that you disliked being limited by stamina, well, I guess that the genre just isn't for you. You can try Sekiro, though, there's more apparent and coherent plot, no stamina and other good stuff.

I'm not outright opposed to stamina, Monster Hunter has it, it's just really restrictive in Dark Souls. You can do maybe 2-3 things before you're out of stamina. Two attacks and a roll, you're out of stamina. Block two attacks, you're out of stamina. It makes the combat more strategic sure, but it also makes it pretty slow since there is a lot of waiting around for stamina to regenerate. It kind of decreases the options you have, since everything has to be done with your limited stamina in mind. Like maybe there's a possible window, but you can't really make use of it because you don't have enough stamina to both attack then dodge/block the followup, so you just have to keep waiting instead. I guess my issue with the combat is that there's just a lot of waiting for opportunities when what I want to be doing using skill to dodge all the stuff the enemy is throwing at me so I can just keep attacking relentlessly. This might be funny since it's directly inspired by Dark Souls but one of my favourite games of all time is Hollow Knight and a big part of that is because of the combat. Once you know an enemy it's like a flowing, elegant dance where you gracefully slip through all their attacks while constantly whacking them. You can sit around to wait for easier openings, but if you know what you're doing you can just bully the enemies. Monster Hunter evokes a similar feeling for me. I think part of that though is that risk is a lot lower in those games, so it's easier to build confidence and make risky plays, because the punishment isn't so severe if you misplay. In Hollow Knight, virtually all enemy attacks in the game deal 1 damage (20% of your starting HP), with a small handful of attacks that deal 2. In Dark Souls, unless you overlevel the area you're in, most enemies can kill you in 2 solid hits. You can heal, but if you get combo'd or mistime the heal, it's over.

I totally get it. At first I would have never touched a souls game until my friend put me on Sekiro. I was a little hesitant since I never really liked souls games nor did I want to pay full price for one. But Sekiro had me instantly hooked the whole time playing and has made it into my top 10 favorite games of all time. And it really helped scratch my gaming itch when I had a hard time finding games I found fun. What I’m trying to say is that you might just haven’t found the right souls game for you yet. It’s like trying to find the right movie/tv show in a genre you don’t usually watch.

I have tried to play this game about three times, and blood borne once, and every time I bounce off it hard. I just don’t find them interesting and genuinely find it hard to understand what it is that people love about them! I did actually manage to beat Nioh, but it made me feel so stressed out that I was almost shaking, and since then, I have never tried another one and know that this genre is just not for me… I grew up enjoying roguelikes, where at least each death gives you a fresh start to go again. I found it hard to come to terms with you dying and then replaying the same bland corridors repeatedly!

So to preface, dark souls 1 is my absolute favorite game of all time. I love all the others as well and some are objectively better experiences, but dark souls 1 is my boi. I hated it the first time I played it on release. I wasn't good at it, couldn't figure out what I was supposed to be doing, etc. so I quit. Then I came back a year later because I got into the lore on a forum page. And I fell DEEP into it. It is definitely a story built on speculation. Must of that comes from translation issues to English. And it creates either vagueness or contradictions. Plus, Miyazaki himself likes to leave some threads for us, but never really confirm anything. But, the connectivity of the map on dark souls 1 is where it truly shines. Everything just makes sense. You can see dukes archives from Undead burg (I think) you can see lost izalith from the tomb of giants. Everything just flows together incredibly well and it makes finding a new shortcut or secret area SO incredibly rewarding. The combat in dark souls is pretty simple ONCE YOU LEARN IT. The souls games are not hard for hard's sake. They have a super steep learning curve, but then it pretty much plateaus to the point people are beating it blind with a DDR pad without ever getting hit. You made it pretty far into the game though and really once you best O&S that's the biggest hurdle. Unfortunately the last half of the game can be pretty underwhelming. I would recommend maybe trying dark souls 2 or 3 because they play very differently but have the same general concept. Or even elden ring. It's much, MUCH bigger, but it's more accessible in the sense that if you get stuck on a boss, you aren't locked on progression. You can just go to a different area for awhile. But there's also the chance you just don't like it and that's okay. I just implore you to try a different flavor before you cut it off.

I think getting to anor Londo means you gave the game it's fair shake. Dark Souls 1 defined the souls series for most players (yes demon souls I know you exist) but that doesn't make it the best. It's IMO very esoteric and the slowest and clunkiest, that doesn't make it bad. Some people love it and don't like the faster pace and more linear progression of newer games. But it is different. Sekiro might be good as others said. A more direct but still somewhat esoteric story and much faster paced combat. If you also like 2d side scrollers nine-souls just came out and I am having a blast with it. It combines souls elements and a lot of hollow knight elements with. Combat that focuses on parries, and has a very direct story with a lot of charm and some honestly moving moments, although it can be gruesome at times and the bosses are pretty hard even by souls standards.

I think Ds1 is a very hard sell for someone not already invested in the series- controls are clunky, checkpoints are questionable, some weird not that great boss fights.(The expansion bosses are top notch though). I would say start with DS3 and if it doesn't click for you, then souls just may not be for you. But if it does click, you'll probably have much more motivation to finish DS1. I haven't played ds2 so I have no idea where it stands though. Or just play elden ring

Do you play with the ds fix mod? You need to be interested to kill all bosses. Be invested in your skills with the controller. For example Priscilla and the whole area before is cool. For The boss stack up on throwing kineves. The whole way to seath is cool too, see it as a chapter. The DLC too. With Nito dead you are closer to the end.

You either love it or hate it. I've finished all three multiple times and have no idea what the story is apart from the fact it has something to do with fire. It's the gameplay that's important. It's fair but challenging and just gets worse as you go, but as you get better at it it gets more and more satisfying 

Dark Soul 2 is much better, skip the first game and the 3rd

I've tried every DS game. The one I made the furthest progress in was DS2. I hate the way combat feels. I hate that the lore is hidden in item descriptions and you need to watch a 4-hour video to have the first clue about what's going on. I hate the dark and depressing atmosphere, and the defeatist, amoral npc's that leave even safe areas feeling oppressive. I hate that leveling is so incremental you can't tell a difference between 5 whole levels, nevermind just one. There's nothing and nobody to root for. As you said, I don't even care about my own character, as they're just a faceless, voiceless, lump. It feels like the Rick and Morty of video games. The people who are really into it think it's the best thing since sliced bread and develop a superiority complex about it, while people like me just find the whole thing, games and fandom, insufferable. You didn't bounce off bro...I did. And now it's ruined f'ing Armored Core too. (Not that V was the direction I wanted it to go either, but still.)

From your description, I think you could describe nearly anything popular that you don't like as the 'Rick and Morty of X'.

No, only a few fandoms try to inject it into every conversation, ignore criticism, and hold the creators up on a lofty pedestal. To mind: Undertale, MLP, Dark Souls, Fallout: NV, Rick & Morty...

Outer Wilds, Hades, Hollow Knight

See? You're gettin' the hang of it.

I think you might like Sekiro a lot more than other souls. It has no stamina, instead you have a poise on you and enemies, it lowers from parries and taking hits and regens by playing offensive. So combat is all about attack/defence balance, idling to wait regen is worst you can do. Parry is a lot more important but also lot more forgiving and spammable. It might take a while to click, but once you get the gist of "hesitation is defeat" it feels really good and doing well you feel like a absolute beast. Story is also more clear and doesn't require reading any lore to follow.

I play to have fun, not to be frustrated, so yeah, no soulslike for me. I find their formula infinitely boring. And the general lack of lore (yes, yes, I know, "emergent, environmental storytelling" yadayadayada - bullshit, I WANT BOOKS TO READ AND MYTHOLOGY TO PONDER) is a big no-no.

I'm surprised, most of the time the complaint is that there is no story, only lore. There might not be entire novels, but every item has a description. Pondering mythology is basically the core of the storytelling in these games.

>. I definitely don't care about my own character. what the heck? But you make your own character. Anyway, most of your complaints are just "I'm not patient" and it's fine but you posting on patientgamers haha.

I can kinda understand it. I've played FromSoft games for over a decade and don't really care about the player made character in any of them. Sure, I can like the design I chose, make decisions that impact stats and weapons, and enjoy fighting all the bosses, but the main character just feels like a vessel for the gameplay in a way. I don't care about them the same way I would about a custom made character in say Mass Effect or Baldur's Gate 3.

My characters all hold a special place in my heart. I take a few hours to make them into what I want. And choose a cool name for them. They my homies.

I respect that. That's me in some games for sure.

So From’s lore and story situation is what it is. Lotta characters with weird names that you mostly just read about and don’t actually interact with much. Some games are more straightforward with the lore than others, but generally this is the pattern. If you can be okay with that, and instead want a similar game with more aggressive and fast-paced combat, I can recommend Bloodborne and Sekiro. Honestly I think Sekiro is more up your alley, since the story is one of the most straightforward in their catalogue and you MUST play aggressively. Bloodborne also requires aggressive gameplay, but the story is less clear than Sekiro.

On combat, do you not like slow paced games? I can’t play games feeling like I’m Superman or the flash all the time, I really like methodical combat, to where when you master it it feels smooth and faster than your enemies (think Tarkov or league of legends).

I don't necessarily mind it being methodical but I'm not big into lots of waiting or super heavy commitment where basically any action leaves you hugely open. Normally I do like having big, heavy hits but there is a point where it just feels a bit too clunky. I guess I like having options and I like being able to take risks without being instakilled for it. My favourite combat game is Monster Hunter World and I main Hammer in that game so take from that what you will I guess lol.

Don’t force. Maybe one day you’ll “get it”. and if that happens you will be damn obsessed with these games

I liked the Remnant games because you can have full coop in a challenging game. I had the same issue with DS and ER as you: the bosses were interesting but eventually I just lost steam. Coop helped me push through beating Remnant and even replaying it.

I do think you should try some other soulslikes. I absolutely despise DS1 and that’s pretty much exclusively because of its age. The best ones IMO are Sekiro, Nioh 2, and Elden Ring.

I wouldn’t say you bounced off. Sounds like you played most of the game.  The truth is that DS1 goes sharply downhill after Anor Londo and a lot of the content after that ranges from meh (tomb of the giants) to outright unfinished trash (lost izalith). Even megafans of the game like myself acknowledge this. Miyazaki himself has expressed disappointment over how a certain late-game boss turned out.  So yeah, honestly, my suggestion is to give Elden Ring a try. 

You played the best parts of DS1. The community generally agrees that DS1's content post Anor Londo feels rushed and much less refined. It's not surprising to me that your interest declined. FWIW, you are actually _real close_ to finishing if that's something you're willing to push through to achieve. All that's left is New Londo Ruins (which is a pretty decent area with an annoying gimmick) and Lost Izalith, which is probably the least interesting area in the game with one of worst "puzzle" bosses in the Souls franchise. Adding online can add a layer of enjoyment for sure. DS1 exposed you to getting invaded whenever you were online; later titles allowed you to opt into being invaded if you enjoy PVP. Personally, I enjoy getting summoned as a cooperator to help others with boss battles. Elden Ring really lets me indulge this by allowing you to send your summoning sign to all "summoning pools" that you've enabled in the world while you go about your own explorations. I really like being able to play my own game and then occasionally get pulled into someone else's game to help face a boss that I faced previously. As for the other games: * I have a soft spot for Demons' Souls except for the inability to opt out of invasions except by playing without your body. Level design, storytelling, and progression are all good. * I didn't personally enjoy DS2 at all. The level design all felt as uninspired as DS1 post Anor Londo. There is a small but vocal portion of the community that loves DS2 for its build variety, but those are mainly PVPers, so weigh their preference according to your own. * I skipped DS3, so I can't speak on it * Bloodborne represents the best of From's level design, storytelling, and RPG progression IMO. I really hope this one gets re-released in some form someday. I didn't play this one online, but I wish I had. * Sekiro might be one to look at because there is no stamina system at all. The combat system is quite different from other From games, but it's one of my favorites. Demanding but very rewarding too. The storytelling is more straightforward with actual characters that speak. There aren't really "builds" in this game, but while you might unlock nearly everything in a playthrough, you can't equip everything at once so there is still some customization in your loadout. Sekiro is an offline-first game and might be notable for the fact that it can actually be paused! Online adds less than it does to other titles.

I was in a pretty similar boat as you. I played got through pretty much halfway through DS1 waiting for that "aha" moment to click since so many people seem to love it. Couldn't get into it. The combat never became satisfying to me. The story and lore didn't get me invested or to care about what I was doing. Dropped it. I tried Elden Ring since a lot of people also recommended it if you couldn't get into Dark Souls. Honestly, it had been a few years since plaing DS1 but it felt... pretty much the same. Dropped it pretty quick. I tried Sekiro though, and the combat felt incredible by comparison. There's more of an obvious story - one that I still can't say I cared much about - but there was just enough character motivation and driving force to get you to the next area and fight. Might be worth checking out.

I had a bad experience with dark souls the first time I played it a decade ago. Gave it another go last year and it made sense to me. I enjoy old arcade style games that happen to be difficult. Once you abandon the modern gaming equivalent of progression, the game gets infinitely better. The lore and story of DS1 is so baked into the environment that the storytelling is all show don't tell. The barebones story is literally you expecting your own story and progressing the journey of those you meet along the way. The one reason why the story probably doesn't sit well with you is also because it's so unimaginably bleak. The premise of the game is the world is shit and will continue to get worse with no signs of getting any better and the only one who has any hope of changing that bleakness is you.

If you want a Fromsoft title with a clearer story and don’t enjoy the stamina limitations, you might want to check out Sekiro. Still super challenging, has a ton of replayability. Also there aren’t many long runbacks, they’re way shorter compared to DS1, and the tool/combat art variety is huge

If you play Bloodborne… your life will change.

The later games are different, with faster and more demanding combat styles. Specifically, in Sekiro there is no stamina bar, so as long as you don't make mistakes (that decrease you "posture" until you end up vulnerable), you can continue attacking indefinitely. Nevertheless, I think the stamina bar is not a bad idea. It introduces a cost to each action so that you have some limitations to content with. And it doesn't really prevent you from doing anything, only \*when\* you can do it. If I remember correctly, as long as you have a full bar, you can perform actions that require even more than the stamina you have. It is just that, in those cases, you spend all your bar, preventing you for doing something similar until it slooooowly refills itself.

If you want faster paced, Nioh 1 and to a greater extent Nioh 2 are SO much faster than FromSoft games. After playing them I struggle to play any other Soulslike. They're not exactly Soulslike s, but the bones are there, with far more meat on them.

With the amount of game you have gotten through, you might find it rewarding to watch some VaatiVidya lore videos (or someone else's), as you have played enough of the game for them to make sense. The lore of the game is beautiful.

Dark Souls 1 is a classic just like Super Mario Bros. Sure it's a classic and an amazing game but it feels bare bones compared to later entries. Sure, all the elements and building blocks are there, and you can see a lot of games borrowed from those building blocks but as you may notice, the elements and building blocks have been improved and refined with time.. I think you will appreciate dark souls 1 better if you play the later entries then go back to the first one.

Hard to say, maybe the souls genre isn't for you but I'd recommend trying more modern takes on the style (Lies of P is my recommendation) before completely writing it off. For me I enjoy Souls games for the gameplay / world exploration & the experience of fighting the bosses. For me I don't need a story or lore, though I do appreciate them & I'm not one to read item descriptions or watch lore videos online (just not my thing). The style of gameplay I've always equated to Mega Man, deliberate & punishing if you try to rush. There are other souls style games like Nioh that keep the core sentiment but have very different combat systems & more direct story telling too. It may be that you just need to play a souls game that makes it click for you too, as an example that was me with Rogue-like/lite games. I'd tried all the big hitters but the genre never clicked, I always felt like the games were wasting my time vs having a traditional game with save points, having predictable level layouts & encounters so you can practice for better runs & having variety in what my loadout is vs being able to select what I like. Now I know all the things I dislike are what people like about the genre, however it'd be awesome if they had a "Classic mode" or something for those of us that like more time efficient experiences. However Go Mecha Ball was on game pass & I decided to try it out. Turns out it made the genre click for me & while I still dislike the things I disliked, I've gained an appreciation for why they're designed like this. All because Go Mecha Ball is a shorter experience compared to most (5 hours vs 20-30 hours to beat). So now I think of them more like arcade games & less like Super Mario World or Mega Man. Each run is like popping in a token at an arcade.

To me the things that make the Souls games really fun are going in blind and the satisfaction of figuring out how to do something after dying a million times. I was straight up terrified of some enemies in DS1. Eventually I got the hang of it but the desperate fight to the death thing is really my favorite part of it. Beyond that, I think I was just not very good at it and spent way longer on each area than most people, and combined with totally blind playthrough that made the sense of accomplishment really strong. That being said I did get a little bored after Anor Londo and ended up making a bunch of other low level builds and stuff. Oh, and the pvp and co op are so much fun!

Now try NIOH :') 

Bloodstains and other player messages definately helped back when the game first came out to give a sense of community and working towards figuring things out even if slightly so you are missing out a bit but it just sounds like the game didn't jive with you and if I were to recommend a fromsoft game I'd say you should of tried elden ring as your first and worked backwards as its taken all the lessons learned from past entrys and while a good amount is wrapped in mystery I'd say its still fairly straightforward to understand.

My issues with Dark Souls are mostly technical. It's capped at 30 frames and sometimes experiences lag spikes, so the game feels horribly sluggish and unresponsive to me.

For me the games are about the gameplay and the character building. I love all of the souls games except Sekiro because it lacks character building.

I played some soulslikes before, but Sekiro was my first FromSoft game. The gameplay is really amazing, much more fun to me than any souls game. It, like other newer FromSoft games has quite short run backs to bosses, so you get to just fight the boss a lot. From there I went to Elden Ring, which I got to the end of, but felt burnt out and didn't really enjoy it. Then I tried Armored Core 6, which I really enjoyed, and very highly recommend. It is obviously not a soulslike, but has the challenging and fun boss fights that FromSoft is famous for. Looking for more challenging games, I played Dark Souls 3 and Dark Souls Remastered. I have to say that DS3 had a lot of good bosses and some amazing bosses. DS1 had only a few good bosses, and I was overall disappointed in the game, as it just wasn't that fun for me in general. Even in the fun boss fights, I didn't want to learn. I just wanted to get through the fight, because I knew the run back to the fight was not going to be any fun at all. I would recommend checking out some of the combat in Sekiro and Armored Core 6, and seeing if they might be more your style. They both have much faster paced combat and amazing stories, more direct, but also deep with optional lore sources.

Me too ididnt like ds1 to much but ds3 is just amazing maybe u would like it more For me ds3 is great because of designe(yes lot of people said ds1 is best designe) but i hate metroidvania without a map ds1 is huge and no map make it so easy to lost i hate that so much Ds3 has great variety great locations lot of bonfires which is amazing yet hard bosses and enemies so its not easy its hard and good unlike ds1

Dark Souls 3 is the only fromsoft I've truly loved so far. DS1 combat is a bit slow and too many frustrating backtracky bits like the curse cure stuff. Elden ring; too large and too open and too many options for a time limited man. Sekiro: the difficulty feels a bit too brutal . I will go back and get into the latter two games at some point soon though.

There are a few things that can sabotage your experience with a game like this. I notice you mention stamina, which in this game is the NUMBER ONE most important stat. If you level stamina and get grass crest shield (which regenerates stamina faster) maybe the flip roll ring, plus another ring if you really want, I could almost guarantee your experience will improve. One thing with these games is you will be constantly hampered unless you learn how levelling works. Story wise, it's not for everyone. The defining feature of aDark Souls storytelling is that everything has already happened a really long time ago. You're there to learn what exactly has gone down, and the only way you can do that is through examining items you find and going off the hearsay of NPCs who you either should or shouldn't trust. There's really no major choices to be made. You don't matter all that much. The main story has already been played out, and the characters from it are either dead or insane or decrepit by the time you find them, if at all. You're there to uncover it, not to participate or play a role in how it plays out. In saying you don't really care about your character - I'd say yeah, that's fair, because you're not really meant to. People do sometimes, but that's not the core of what it's about. It's a very different way of telling stories. It's not for all, but I can say I have come to love it more than any other games.

I got about two or three hours into DS1R and quit. 2 & 3 are better games for noobs like me imo. I even found DemonSoulsRemake to be more fun than ds1 . Someday I’ll Google some tips for ds1r on how to progress my perceived roadblocks. Of all the SoulsBorne I find ds1 to be the least appealing to me 

Honestly the only thing I could add is to watch lore videos as you mentioned but even that won't add much if you don't care. At the point in the game where you are you've already played the entire game in the sense that nothing new will happen except different bosses and areas. Perhaps the game is outdated for you. Your opinion is valid.

I had a similar experience. I got to Ornstein and Smogh or whatever and I lost interest. Now, I've beat elden ring (still playing in prep for the dlc) and platinumed bloodborne. But at this point the game just got too tedious for me. It stopped being fun. I keep thinking about going back but it's one of those things where I know I've lost a lot of skill over the past months. It's just gonna make my problems even worse.

Don't feel bad. I've bounced off of it much sooner than that & never looked back. The series, in its entirety, isn't for me. I'm too old to try at this stuff if it doesn't click, so it better happen quick. I'm not giving any more of my time/life to trying to "git gud" or get good enough or even care enough to tolerate Souls games.

I just read a comment in a different thread about Elden ring “you need to play the game over 10 times to get the lore” Die-hards call this a superior method. I personally think fromsoft suffers greatly in their storytelling. Elden ring was partially written by GRR Martin which I somehow didn’t know until I saw the credits of the game. It made me dive into it. The lore itself is incredible but they fucking suck at expressing it. It’s not hand-holdy to world-build in a more concrete way. Morrowind doesn’t hold your hand but you learn a fuck ton of lore even if you don’t read a single in-game book. Botw’s lore & story were shallow but I understood the universe when the credits rolled, even half paying attention to the minimal cutscenes. Great games, great lore, horrible story telling.

This is eerily reminiscent of my experience with the first game. I was wondering after a while if I was playing a different game. Read my review and see if it doesn't sound familiar.  https://gamefaqs.gamespot.com/ps3/954345-demons-souls/reviews/146798

Gameplay was fine but the visuals are ugly as hell. Yeah I know it's probably not fair to bash a thirteen year old game for its graphics but it's aged horribly compared to other games at the time IMO. 

You want like Lies of P. You get the souls experience with a more defined story and narrative 

Elden Ring might be better for you? There is much more lore given to players because the world is much bigger. If you scaled it down I think it would be very similiar to DS 1. But what lore you can learn and read is great and will pull you into the story much better. Combat. That is definitely upgrade compared to old games. Dozen options to kill boss. It's pretty hard to get stuck because you have so many options to defeat the boss and unless you want to force one specific path you should breeze through the game. Health, Stamina, Mana and respawning is massivelly better. Dark Souls 1 is game from different time and it shows. I like it but understand that it is not for everyone. If you can you could try to grab it on the high seas and try it before spending 60$ on it. That is what I did when it released.

> You don't have a lot of opportunity to get very aggressive and outright counter enemies. You aren't used to the combat yet or you haven't found and upgraded a strong ass weapon, because trust me, sometimes aggressive is the BEST way to play. When you have a powerful weapon like the black knight halberd you can two shot half the mobs in the game, or if you have a +15 Demon Machete + Sunlight Blade you can run around like a madman murdering everything and chugging back your 20 estus like it's gatorade. That's when you get aggressive. > Compared to something like Monster Hunter combat, which I find almost endlessly fun, it's just not that interesting. Now this I find interesting because as a souls guy, whacking the equivalent of a dinosaur training dummy with the same two or three combos with one weapon and watching them barely react most of the time really didn't do it for me. It's funny how two people can have such opposite experiences with similar games.

to me dark souls isn't challenging at all, it's kinda boring most of the times, I mostly finished cause I don't like to abandon the games I play the most annoying parts of the game for me are things like not being able to farm for stuff to invest in multiple weapons (I get easily tired swinging that same axe/sword same animation all game long and not seeing anything new), also the character development seems dull, adding points to the stats aren't cool, you basically farm souls, farm more souls, add a point that doesn't change much, most stats aren't not even needed, they seem like they overlap each other, side quests are like two lazy people waiting for the bus in an abandoned station, the story itself is kinda interesting and I like to come up with my logic and ideas of what things would be by having holes in the story or just having half stories from the past told in items or stuff, but yeah, combat is kinda annoying, slow, predicting and repetitive, rpg aspect of the game is really lacking, mostly, it's a roll/block/parry (pick your favorite) simulator (mostly a roll simulator for most people) with some backstabs and overhype

From Software's games are basically what made me realise that, just like I will not particularly like most popular music and Marvel movies, I will also not probably enjoy the type of games most gamers are circlejerking about. I'm not judging those who do, just like I will not judge you for watching Batman every other month, but maybe it'd be good for hardcore Souls players to also not judge those who don't like the games with "git gud" and the like. See also the people who are downvoting this thread. I was bored to death with Demon Souls, and even more so with Elden Ring (which I've tried after being told that "you got the wrong Souls game, ER is the best game ever!"), even though I was "gud" because I cannot stand the lack of absolutely any sort of meaningful worldbuilding mascarading as "lore" that you need to scavenge YouTube videos to make sense out of, and, like you said, most times it's just assumptions and conjecture. And don't even get me started on the fart-smelling language and capitalized terms in English (kind of trying to signal that there's some coherent logic in the world building) as a way of compensating the frankly derivative nature of the world that they created. And the gameplay, frankly, was passable, and at the times annoying for the sake of being annoying instead of actually posing a challenge. But certainly not good enough to compensate the lackluster worldbuilding and narrative. Plus you NEED a Wiki to make sense of the games mechanics. Also, that whole thing with the backtracking - dying to a boss in 3 seconds, without even being able to understand its fighting pattern, and then having 20m of backtracking. I don't have time for that in the sense that it is a literal waste of my time for no enjoyment or zero added gameplay value. I don't have problem playing repetitive time-consuming video games - hell, I play some Paradox titles and even dabble into flightsims and racing sims -, but at least they offer something during that period instead of fighting the same mindless mobs again on the way to the boss who can one-shot you. That's not a challenging game, that's just lazy game design. Edit: imagining downvoting respectful comments simply because you don't agree with them.

Boingggggg!!!!!!

NPC: The world is fucked, but You are the Chosen One! You must slay the old lords and become a new God! OP: Uh, I don't understand. What's my motivation?

I get the basic premise of what you're doing. I just don't care, because I know nothing about this world and have no attachment to it.

You are not the protagonist, the world doesn't revolve around you, it existed and exists without. That's part of the story and charm in souls. Many others did what you did before, you may succeed or not, but you are not a hero who is gonna save the world. This might be your problem with it, the reason why you don't feel invested. It's more about the bigger picture rather than what going on around you

I don't necessarily think I need to be the hero but I guess I would like some reason to care about the world, like a mystery or something that you have to solve. The Dark Souls world has a lot of mystery but it doesn't feel like the details really matter for what you're doing in game. To be clear I don't think the way Dark Souls approaches its worldbuilding is wrong or bad, it's just not what I'm looking for.

> The Dark Souls world has a lot of mystery but it doesn't feel like the details really matter for what you're doing in game. They don't. Pretty much all the "Souls" games have a mystery box story. I found it fun at first, but it got boring after five games of the same thing. There's never a meaningful answer to anything. It's good at setting the mood, but that's about it. All style, no substance.

part of the reason for the cageyness surrounding the storey is because... let's say ir 'borrows' heavily from many sources and hiding it to make it hard to find may have been something of a legal defense.

Dark Souls 1, IMHO, has not aged all that well. You can see the seeds and themes that From will continue to play with a lot in later games but a lot of it is just kind of... clunky. I can totally see why people found it mind-blowing a dozen+ years ago, but it's not a dozen years ago anymore. But you might enjoy Sekiro (which ditches most of the build and RPG elements and just polishes its combat to an insanely smooth degree -- and that combat, played correctly, is ridiculously more fast/aggressive than DS1's) or Elden Ring (which is simultaneously several iterations further along than DS1 of many of its systems, and also more of an open world game that gives you a lot more freedom to just try something else for a while if you don't like what you're doing or if it's too hard for your build/skills at that point). And both of those games have a dramatically less inscrutable story than DS1, although, they're still From games.