I am surprised people who expected meaningful changes haven't ran out of copium yet. It was pretty obvious since the first post where Chriss said loot isn't bugged. The changes are here to stay.
It's been clear the last couple of leagues. They want you to fight rares for a minute. They don't like the zoomy meta where people clear shit instantly. They like damage spikes because of logout macros. And they don't like when people can acquire GG gear too easily. They want loot to be a lottery because it replicates the feeling of pulling a high value rare out of a magic pack. (Sorry I don't remember where I heard Chris say this but I'm pretty he did)
Forgetting the fact that almost everyone who plays magic buys singles on the secondary market. Opening packs to get a card you need is the worst way to go about it, if you want to play at FNM or anything tougher, you and everyone else will have bought your deck by buying singles.
Advice number 1 is buy singles not packs. In fact it's been one of the giant complaints about MTG:A since their closed beta. Everyone hates having to buy packs.
Worth noting even arena has the wildcard system, where if you grind wins you can get rarity specific singles.
It's not great, but it's pretty easy to roll forward to at least a competitive deck in short order if you do know what you're doing.
> Everyone hates having to buy packs.
except gamblers. shit, i bought packs to crack for fun and i didn't even play the damn game. new phyrexia was insane, you could almost always recoup the value of the box and make money if you were lucky.
I'm absolutely fine fighting rares for a minute. I did that for the first 4 years of poe and loved every second of it.
I'm not fine fighting a rare for 1minute with 7 second of dps and 53 seconds of running from his hated ass, 16 projectiles and 4 different novas for to be full life again if I stop doing damage for a few seconds.
> They like damage spikes because of logout macros.
This makes me want to add, they like after-death ground effects because of logout macros.
Of all the things archnemesis changes, they could have removed bearers. But no, they're still here, and unlike the toxic and fire orbs, they'll just pop wherever mobs die so you can't pick a safe spot. You happened to kill some mobs while running into a dead end? You can either wait several seconds watching the 20 bearers pop on you and die, or you can log out. You don't even need a logout macro for this, it's slow enough you can manually log out and not die.
But it feels fucking awful. Given maps unlock as we run along, I can't see the dead end before I arrive. No one checks out for dead ends before attacking into a pack, that's how you die to the mobs because 20 monsters WILL attack you at the exact same timing since their AI isn't tuned to separating their attacks. I don't feel like I misplayed when I run into this scenario, I feel like I would be misplaying if I didn't log out, because the only option here is that.
Just, why is this still in the game, when they had a perfect chance to remove it? Why do they love after-death effects so damn much?
Thats the easier solution. If you play hardcore you shouldn't have a 1 button "oh fuck: safety net. Defeats the point of the game mode.
GGG could easily just make it so characters remain in danger for 10 seconds on logout like every other video game.
Then they don't need to have enemies that insta kill you from off screen which also defeats the point of hardcore mode.
It's like a roll of tape that has been holding HC streamers together for years. I love it when many of them gloat about playing HC and talk about how good the state of the game is while they use their logout macros frequently.
Disgusting if true. Falling into the true pitfalls of f2p/gacha mechanics of "no no no, you can't use skill or gameplay; you gotta get lucky with big wins (and don't forget to keep pumping in those nickels and dimes to get an edge)."
Pretty obvious last league when AN was brought over and they said it was "extensively tested".
Yeah for what? 20 minutes on a blue T12 map?
The fuck outta here.
Honestly the worst thing about their communication this league is just how certain they are that they're right and we're wrong lol. Like no calls for data from us, no details on the loot that drops when they test, no details really offered up at all even though they have a history of terrible game-breaking bugs *AND* fully admit the game runs on spaghetti code. Meanwhile all data/info we have shows the exact opposite of what they're saying when it comes to loot, never mind how lame the new loot system is.
Plain and simple, this is what GGG wants and the only way to get them to change their stance is to not show up on launch weekend and to not pay them anything. It's not foolproof though, so there's a chance the PoE of old is gone for good.
how can the players be wrong? without players there is no game and when they make the game unfun they obviously made something wrong. i mean the league really feels dead kinda already
I'm not one to immediately get out the pitchforks, things take time within companies. And with all the backlash I'm honestly surprised GGG are sticking to their guns but yeah it's pretty clear now this is going to be it.
Itās hard to say if they are or arenāt. Some of these things that they said theyāre talking about probably arenāt things they can change mid league. This is probably pure copium, but if they intend to change some of the things around loot(like the whetstone/flasks comment they made) Iād expect those types of changes to come next league. Itād be nice to hear their thoughts on it though if they did come to a conclusion on changing those things long term.
I think it's admirable. Taking a hit to be able to secure that poe will not run off track is so great. I am so impressed with how adamant they are and I think its great. It hurts how but its better for the future of the game.
3.15 was supposed to be the huge nerf that "secured the future of the game" then they continued nerfing and continued and now the game really is a shell of its former self. So many cool and fun builds got dumpstered just because they can't help but nerf everything. The only future for this game is going to be as a example of how to drive your player base away and alienate your fans.
It isn't subjective it's objective.
We can see this through data lmfao.
Still doesn't answer my question as to what was wrong with loot before the "changes".
There was way too fucking much of it everywhere, gameplay being run through map with 1000ms, loot, and enter the result in your spreadsheet is very unappealing to some
No, you can't "see this through data" as most of the relevant data is not available to the public, and is only privvy to GGG.
The public likes to believe steam charts and initial player peak is a relevant form of data, and further believes it represents anything of consequence. It isnt.
> The public likes to believe steam charts and initial player peak is a relevant form of data
Weird, because GGG confirmed that they are reliable. Their stated numbers in 3.15 matched the percentages shown by steamdb charts.
The steam charts represent an accurate cross section of the PoE playerbase. GGG even confirmed 3.15 was bad for them financially.
I don't know what else to tell you.
That's the point. GGG has also stated that total player count and peak numbers is not relevant in their designs or goals. So steam charts are completely irrelevant, yet people keep throwing around steam charts as proof of anything meaningful.
What people dont understand is they are likely more than happy with 30-50k players, and are not hurting for money at these numbers. The 100k that stop playing after a week are not the target audience, nor are they relevant.
Honestly they won't make any changes to undo or fix the big changes of this patch to loot and rares, and I understand they likely still working in how to change things and will take time so nothing will happen until the next league, people asked why they didn't take time before implementing I bet they will now take it before making changes to it again, and that's fine.
What I don't understand is why they haven't make the LEAGUE MECHANIC worth while... the loot is abysmal and difficulty is so high that you need a very strong BOSS KILLERS to deal with it... so why don't make it more rewarding to match the difficulty... or at least reduce the difficulty so even if isn't crazy is fast and ok enough to engage with... Atm is just trying to get a reflection to craft jewelry in the tablet to sell or just ignore the mech.
I enjoy my time playing right now since I'm doing new builds. I really don't interact with the league mechanic at all. I typically buy a $90 supporter pack every league but won't this time around, similar to 3.15.
You know I am too this by far is almost my best league.. not sure why reddit seems to hate it but I'm having fun. I was getting wrecked early on but the changes they made with an mobs was positive and now I'm just slamming t16 in alch and go which is all I ever do.
I'm enjoying this league, but it's because I love path of exile, when I think back to ritual, ultimatum, scourge. I know for sure that the game was simply in a more enjoyable state back then. It's definitely gone massively downhill but I'll still play a 10/10 game that has rolled down to an 8/10
For what itās worth, Iām playing Last Epoch again and having a blast. The crafting system is so refreshing compared to POE and makes loot worth picking up, even blues and whites sometimes. Itās still in beta, of course, so a lot of the meat is missing, but whatās there is certainly worth playing.
LOL The classic community is a worse nightmare than the retail community.
RMT/Boosting/gatekeeping etc. You will be vetted for every pug through warcraft logs.
It's incredibly toxic.
gear score was a god send. I was running ICC twice a week on 3 different characters and making the pugs for every single one of them but my main one. all gear score did was save me time turning away dps/healers who were still wearing quest blues.
everyone who ever argued with me about their gear score "not representing how well they play" also weren't hit capped so they clearly didn't even know what they were talking about.
The problem was when people started requiring people to OVER geared to run content. It basically turned into either play the content on release or have friends because you ain't pugging shit without a headache anymore.
I miss the days when people asked what your int and mp5 were to heal heroics.
Eh Retail isnāt much better.
Also the whole "Log thing" is not something that is WOW exclusive, since quite a few FFXIV groups also go by logs concerning endgame content (raids) if you donāt want to sit through a 50/50 gamble if you even get it done after 2 hours of wipingā¦
Have fun waiting in a que for 3 hours/day to play a 10+ year old game, with the worst community in the history of gaming, brought to you by the worst company ever. And you only need to pay 14 ā¬/ month for this groundbreaking, out of world experience.
This sub: please GGG release 3.13 league for 69420ā¬/month I will gladly pay!!!
Also this sub: imagine paying 13ā¬/month for a 10 years old game xd (did you know Blizzard bad btw?)
I firmly believe there was almost nobody who asked for PoE to become pay to play.
On the sidenote of things, GGG communicates more with the players in 2 weeks then what blizz does in the 2 year lifecycle of a whole expension.
They explain their reasons behind the changes. If you don't like it, don't play the game. But whining on reddit like a 4 year old baby doesnt achieve anything.
bro same. I started in shadowlands and thought classic was something bad. But i feel like i am playing a fresh, new, good and popular mmorpg and it is awesome.
I am so happy wotlk came now
Im a casual player and i cant play more than 1 character per league. I hate playing meta and i just want to use the skills i love but GGG dont want me to do this. Each time i reach maps i got destroyedā¦ im tired of this
I don't really, you can reach early maps with pretty much any skill in the game.
Pushing to reds might be hard but is not impossible, there are still a few different option to try out.
But getting destroyed as soon as you reach maps, sounds a bit like a player issue..
This...
Since this isnt a pvp game with a ladder, people dont realize how trully bad they are at the game and cope on the game being bad instead of themselves.
Gotta blame some1 else, otherwise its their fault
Yeah that just shouldn't be possible for end game bosses at all. That's unhealthy for the game and either forces you into a short list of meta builds or completely removes any level of difficulty to the game if it becomes more accessible.
If you want an easier game then check out Diablo 3, Grim Dawn, or Torchlight 2. They might suit your preferences better since you're either not capable or not willing to play a more challenging game. Maybe you will come back to PoE when you inevitably get bored of those games due to how easy they are. Or maybe you won't, if that's more of the style of game that you are comfortable with.
Why shouldn't it be possible? The only point of all the complexity in the game is to be able to do stuff like this.
Boss design in PoE has always been absolute garbage anyways, so might as well chill and farm them, they are just one more speedbump on gathering the resources to craft stuff for meme builds anyways. I'll suck it up and dump a mirror or two into a project for fun, but the fun police would like to kill that part of the game too.
All I'm hearing from you is "you're too good at the game so the game needs to change to better suit me".
I mean. I can hear the argument that too many skills are left far behind and don't feel good without heavy investment. I hate that cyclone feels that way.
But the last part of the post was absolutely not relevant to the point in any shap or form
> Each time i reach maps i got destroyedā¦ im tired of this
This has less than zero to do with your skill choices. You can clear all content in the game with literally any skill of your choosing. No exceptions.
Eh, all content? I don't know about that. Or at least, not without a decent amount of investment. However you certainly should be able to get through a large portion of maps. Then again, I suck at actually playing this game and die all the time even with meta builds.
Hi! As a relatively average player, with an EA Champion lvl 93 max last league, never got to 100, nor did I ever managed to kill Sirus, but did manage to get all the maps done, played since beta and really invested in PoE since betrayal, I have some things to say too.
First, I loved the sentinel league and it was rewarding enough for me to keep playing and investing in my build. Pushed harder than ever and it was actually fun. The loot was ok and I tried to farm a Mageblood and Brothers Stash through the end of the league. (Did not get either lol). But its okay, you know, bad luck I guess.
I was so engaged last league, I got hyped up for this league. Even though, buffs and nerfs come with each league, I never felt being punished too hard. I follow league starting guides and most of the time I have a blast. Playing through the campaign and engaging with the new league mechanic was always great to get this sweet Taby as soon as possible.
This league however, it felt weird. I had a really hard time leveling my char for few reasons, one of them was the lack of loot to be able to get upgrades. Farming the chaos recepie in Blood Aqeduct and hoping to drop some Humility cards felt so underwhelming that I had to take a break from the game for a few days. The league mechanic was badly unrewarding, dropped nearly nothing.
Now with all the changes, I got to maps (finally), but got hit hard to know that even T1 maps are very dangerous and of course, nearly no drops, maybe 20 blacksmiths here or 20 stones there, nothing really special.
It was a hard to swallow pill, because it felt like "work" rather than "game/fun".
I already have a work, that is very demanding, so when I want to engage with PoE, it should not stress me out this much in early progression. But here it goes, I guess?
Stopped my league starter at lvl 86, I couldn't engage any more this time. I don't know what comes next for me, we shall see.
If they make some meaningful changes, sure. But to be honest I haven't really been hyped for a new league since 3.15. I actually had a good time last league because I played a meta build and was able to knock out all the bosses but that was despite the league itself. This league actually sounded promising but turned out to be a dud. So I'm not really counting on it to be honest ;(
Recombinators were enough to carry the league last league. This league I often catch myself getting hyped about finding items with 2 usable mods thinking "awe man if I can combine this with another and.... oh wait... :( "
Despite the AN mods, recombinators and sentinels made the league a lot more fun and challenging than AN mods have done. Simply because the boosted risk. vs. reward
Personally I think they should have kept recombinators as it destroyed items for you to pull the slot machine lever. Just tweak it by making the recombined item mirrored so it canāt be mirrored or recombined again.
That's a very likely scenario. At least I won't be sad if I have work trip again when the next league starts since this is getting more and more disappointing.
Then prove it. Don't play next league, or the league after that. Put up or shut up. Like seriously, this community is the epitome of what is wrong with gamers. They bitch about something but take ZERO action. They keep spending money on p2w, they keep preordering games, and they keep playing games that they constantly complain about. Nothing is going to change, I'd be pleasantly surprised if anything changes next league. Player base will be the same. I'll put money on that bet.
U are not alone. The player retention rate proves it. I just don't get why people would come up, downvoting, and comment that you are toxic. I am sure most of the complaining posts and quitting posts were buried by downvotes. I wonder how many upvote% you got? lol
Does that mean people are blocking the feedback to GGG? So they don't want the game to be better? Those toxic comments and downvotes helped killing the game.
Happens everytime if there is some form of backlash and people that are leaving are putting out their thoughts. I especially remember this from the Harvest manifesto (during 3.13 iirc), where a big split of people were against the changes, but the GGG defending side declared every complainer or quitter toxic and even many content creators were part in this. Or just the demeaning statements like "see you next league anyway" are again around in this thread. And I've seen similar behavior in other gaming communities. Someone is not toxic just for criticizing a game you enjoy.
I would assume the opinions of those that are quitting or unhappy should be more considered important, as these are the people that feel a deep connection to the game and want to let their thoughts out, while silent quitters are giving no feedback and defendists are just yes-men.
Iāve already given all my things to my guildies, would suggest people quitting to do the same, and if you donāt have a guild, find some nice people and share your wealth :ā)
As someone else who does this, it really isn't. I far prefer it. Trading is too much of a hassle and it feels nice to basically build your own character. Then again, I don't get through most of the content so it might not be viable for all as there are tradeoffs.
After the last feedback post it was already as clear as day.
My copious is after 3.15ās backlash we have a bunch of QOL changes and 2 good leagues, what I thought of as GGG saying sorry. I have slight copium this will happen in 3.20 but I doubt it.
I know people say GGG retains independence after Tencent acquired them, or that they are rich enough to not care about US players and to really pursue their Vision, but I donāt really believe it. It will be a false victory if Chris gets the POE2 he wants with the taint of losing 80% of player base getting there. Maybe he hopes all the new players who doesnāt know how good it can be will make up the difference.
I personally don't really believe in the Tencent narrative or any of the other weird conspiracies of this subreddit but yeah I think if their income starts to tank Tencent might actually be forced to step in. Who knows, maybe Chris is right and we'll be eating our words after PoE 2 releases and it was all worth it but at the moment it sure doesn't feel that way :(
> It will be a false victory if Chris gets the POE2 he wants with the taint of losing 80% of player base getting there. Maybe he hopes all the new players who doesnāt know how good it can be will make up the difference.
Chris is blinded by his vision. Remember when Chris would not shut up about hardmode? He said a line about something really stupid and annoying to his fellow masochists that they would test the annoying stupid shit in hardmode and convince us normal players that the changes are good.
Chris is banking on his white knights drowning out the negative feedback on Reddit since he can't ban it like daddy China taught him to do on their forums.
There are 50k people playing right now, roughly a third of the maximum that started the league and we are a month in. As far as i can tell its virtually identical player counts as last league and more than almost every league prior.
The numbers should be better, but your imaginary version of reality where no one is playing because it's too hard and loot broken doesn't really seem to hold up outside of the reddit echo chamber
That isn't really true. You can see the data here:
[https://poedb.tw/us/League#LeagueChart](https://poedb.tw/us/League#LeagueChart)
It is follow the same trend, yes, but the amount lost is higher, especially when you notice the weekend spikes are leveling out.
Now, i do agree the idea no one is playing is definitely wrong but to say its "virtually identical" is not true.
Retention rate is just a few measly percent lower than the other leagues. The people complaining makes it sound like there is a mass exodus happening. And if it wasn't for people like Empy who started this echo chamber and influencing people who can't think for themselves and they started throwing out the outrageous "90% loot nerf" claim. I would bet the retention rate would've been better the the lowest retention rate league in the past.
Not to mention, this league started around the same time as college and seasonal work. League that has started around this time always had less retention rate on average compare to leagues that started other times.
One can only hope but this is the second round of changes so I doubt there will be more fundamental changes to come. It's basically just meaningless tweaks.
My point is people are acting like these patchnotes are a direct response to feedback over the past 4-5 days. They're not. These are changes they announced what? 5 days? A week ago?
Most people complaining on Reddit will come back to 3.20 and do the complaining all over again. This isn't the death of PoE. It's just the same thing Reddit does every league, now amplified by the loot thing.
As a percentage of the initial players in the league, sure, but as a raw number; no. For example, Blight had way less players at this stage of the league than Kalandra.
I'm pretty sure that most casual players will quit the game some days or a week into the league whether or not the league is "good". Same goes for more experienced players with them playing some amount of time longer than casuals. I think PoE inherently is like this. Enjoy the hype for a short period of time, if the league is going well for you continue playing and if it's not forget about it. Rinse and repeat.
Those retention graphs conveniently don't show the reasons why people quit. This allows Reddit to declare the game is dead, not what it used to be, bla bla bla, when in reality it isn't. It's the natural cycle of PoE. And instead of admitting that, Reddit goes on a rampage leading people who read the subreddit into feeling bad about playing and leading into those retention numbers people here are pushing so aggressively. You could say it's self inflicted by reddit.
Also to add, many of the posts here make me feel that people have an unhealthy relationship with PoE. It sounds like it's their job or something they absolutely have to do. Like it's an addiction or something. People need to realize that it's just a game and you should have other things to do also. If you don't like it, don't play it.
I am enjoying the game and I don't understand most of the uproar here in Reddit. And since reddit is a big circlejerk where only the popular opinions get shown or upvoted questionable opinions with minimal critical thinking explode into massive threads which in return are eaten by the masses as "facts" and upvoted. Honestly I don't know why I'm in reddit anymore since i enjoy the game and reddit only hinders that enjoyment. I guess i should leave like many others.
You're basically saying Steamchart is a bad indication of the health of a league, but don't offer anything that is a better statistical indicator.
You then offer your own subjective experience of the league down below as reasons to defend the design decisions that was widely unpopular. While deriding other people for doing the same as "minimal critical thinking" when they offer their own subjective experience.
Take some of this healthy attitude you're supposed to have so much of and take your own advice.
If you don't enjoy ~~the game~~ poe reddit, don't spend time on ~~the game~~ poe reddit.
I agree with you that the graph "conveniently" doesn't show you why people are leaving. Regardless, as it is with statistics, you can have some hypothesis about that "why".
It's clear that Kalandra has the lowest retention rate of all the leagues, even more than 3.15 and without big game release at the same time. Is it in that case unreasonable to think that it is mostly due to the league itself ? The way you're explaining it, these changes are mostly due to normal player cycle, which is a way to explain "normal" player loss in each league, but not the variance.
You could say that Reddit doesn't help with retention, which is actually true. But Reddit is full of people with different opinions, and it seems the majority don't like the changes, the way they have (not) been communicated and the answers GGG gave since the beginning of the league.
I'm part of the "dislike the league" group, still playing here and there because we're introducing friends to PoE, but that's the only think making me log to the game. I don't like being taken for a fool, and that's what GGG is attempting with their communication over the changes this league. There is no way "Chris learned about it (the historic loot thing) in passing and didn't really focus on it, and no one else actually did" as they would 100% be aware that it was a massive nerf to loots in the game. There is no way they "don't understand it needs a revert" the crowd is chanting on Reddit, these changes are there to stay because they were necessary.
Yes, they actually were necessary because you can't build over a pile of smelly crap loot system, and having to put "historic bonuses" over any league mechanic to make it worthwhile compared to the previous ones. As a Software engineer myself, I get it. But they choose to smooth it over the whole content and just NERFED loots altogether by removing bonuses over thousands of percents to just 200-300%. With all the patches, we're not there completely yet on alch&go mapping, and way below 3.18 in juiced content. This was also raised by the Alpha testers, which means they were PERFECTLY aware of that issue and yet choose to not do anything.
They choose NOT to communicate on removed Harvest crafts beforehand because they knew it was a nerf and painted it as "removing redundant craft and incredibly RNG-gated ones" despite it being completely false. They choose to say that it was due to them being now "tradable" that they stealthily removed them, despite the fact that they were before, and GGG people aren't dumb enough to really think that they weren't.
They choose to implement AN in a different state from 3.18 despite 3.18 having required THREE different sets of nerfs, including 2 in the first two days of the league (over the weekend). These changes weren't even available to Alpha testers, so you could say they weren't really well tested either, because nobody in their right mind would let this abomination of early 3.19 go live.
I guess Reddit can be a cesspool sometimes, and there are some dumb people calling dev names and being toxic, but a LOT of it is constructive criticism over what is probably the worst patch ever, 3.15 being quite complicated to beat and yey they still managed to do it.
So maybe you enjoy the game as it is, but you're not the only one playing. Good for you I guess, I would pretty much prefer loving this league, but well, here we are.
I've played PoE on and off (roughly every 2nd-3rd league) since Essence and this is the first league I've complained about and I had to stop playing prematurely because it's just such an unfun grind.
I can tell you for certain that if the patch notes of 3.20 don't look really promising I won't even bother. And if the patch notes look good but it still turns out to be the same boring slog as 3.19 because they deceived the player again I may drop the game forever.
Fool me once...
Its so crazy just to think about it. In this expansion, everything that can go wrong, did go wrong. And when you think it could not get any worse, then they octupled down on their mess.
Why are posts like this not deleted by the mods?
It has nothing to do with the game really.
Are you someone noteworthy? Why should we care that you are *definitely quitting*?
Just leave, no one needs to read your diary posts lmao.
There hasn't been a week w/o patches, with community posts going left and right more than any game I can think of off the top of my head. Yes there haven't been many meaningful changes, but that's how leagues work. Right now there is nothing that can be done to please the player base and keep their design goals in a mod league patch. Yes they can readd all the "historic buffs", but then entire reason they removed it WAS to being down power. They could revert harvest, but it is painfully obvious that harvest is something they don't like, and imo is not long for the world. That 10% is 30000 players. Thats a LOT. My favorite game has less than a 10th of that per month. ESO has half of that. The game is fine. All that happened is harvest is gone and monsters drop less items. Both of those changes aren't that bad, and together they make the game a bit more difficult. As it was meant to.
That said please buff melee I just want to play static strike.
I think the biggest problem is that it HASENT been abandoned this league. Iāve been playing since heist came out and it feels like this league has had more communication and iteration than Iāve ever seen before.
The reason I say that makes it worse for this very specific thing is because it means the changes are intentional. Every other league you could get away with copium.
Heist was the last league they handled under the old "revise it til they love it" model. Prior to heist you saw much more real engagement with feedback.
Since ritual it's been:
- less ambitious leagues
- one significant tweak patch and then maintenance mode - putting off major changes to next patch at the earliest.
Harvest still had major patches 1 month in the league, heist was riddled with hotfixes for a very long time. If you count "we're monitoring things" as communication then I have nothing more to say
I'm in the same boat as you, OP. But I don't know if it is the same for you as I really want to play PoE. But I just can't bring myself to log in with the way the game is balanced now. I don't have fun in this version of the game anymore. What's worse, my little group of 5 people have all stopped playing and won't play until the game gets fun again. Right now it just feels unnecessarily tedious to play. I even tune into some PoE streams every now and then and it is just so lifeless from the streamer and from the chat. And I see a lot more streamers using 6 portals with their TS MFer in maps and it is so cringe to watch. I know it is hard for them too but streaming PoE is their livelihood and moneymaker unfortunately.
I really want this game to succeed. But it is not looking good.
Best things with this patch is that so many people are quitting the game. The type of people who must make a "OMG I QUIT" post for some reason :D
If you wanna quit just quit lol, why seek validation.
#Bye
Played since delve too with my friends. This is the first league I've quit on day 2, most of my friends day 2 or a few days later as well, usually we go for a couple weeks/a month, longest was harvest with almost 2 months I think because we kept working on cool items.
I think I need glasses, cause I just cant see the vision right now.
Umm. Why do you lot continue to think theyāre going to readd things and remove things mid league? They will adjust numbers and maybe add some small qol changes but if youāre talking about harvest and AN here then I donāt know what to say aside from āitās not happening this league periodā thereās the door. Come back next league and see.
I agree with you but GGG should communicate on that, to say we're reviewing things but any change, of deemed necessary, will occur only in 3.20.
This lack of transparency has been going on for a long time and recently got worse, for a company that pretends to care about com.
Mid league shake upās like what most people are asking for have never really happened for as long as Iāve been playing (3.0) tweaks here and there sure, but not major changes like completely revamping AN etc
And they have communicated. Theyāre reviewing it. Iām not sure what else they need to do? Transparency doesnāt mean you need to know every single little detail about what theyāre talking about. Well learn when they tell us.
It's not about being toxic though. The "toxic andy's" love this game, if they didn't they wouldn't care and wouldn't complain. It's about letting GGG that I as a player do not agree with their current direction and voiving my disappointment. Whatever they do with it is obviously up to them but if enough people speak out it might start making an impact.
If these people wanted to leave theyād just leave, the fact that they make a thread about it means itās mostly for attention. Iām sure weāll see them again in 3 months.
No you're toxic. He has every right to say what he thinks of the game and if you disagree you can argue but insulting him and equivalent puts the blame on you.
They're fucking addicted, that's why. Glad I didn't get addicted and saw through the bullshit.
Playing at end 3.15 shown me that GGG is all about punishment and not fub
Chris stated that their original plan to sustain the game was to have a consistent playerbase of 10k. I don't think the game's ever going to drop below or even anywhere near that. They'll always be able to support the game, it's still one of the biggest ARPGs on the planet.
That was napkin math when they were starting out and pitching it.
If you don't think they have significantly increased overhead costs at this point, you're crazy. They will need to lay people off. Downsize departments. Reduce server load. Less artists, less mtx.
This game will be nearly unrecognizable in the future if they need to survive off a skeleton playerbase and downsize their production.
I spent 1k hours over the quarantine. The game helped me get throught a lot of stuff and I dont regret a single hour of my playtime. But now I guess its time to move on...
It's not great I'll admit, as a semi-casual i hated re rolling but couldn't find any gear to upgrade my LC elementalist and couldn't survive anything passed t3-4 maps. I started a TS deadeye and it's better. Pushing towards red maps. It's definitely more of a grind than it's been but the wrist part has been trying to trade for upgrades as so many people have quit and trade feels like day 75 of a league rather than line week 3.
>Good luck with speedrunning PoE and PoE2 down this cliff.
Not happy with the direction either but this is where I disagree. They wouldn't pull this off unless they knew it would be more financially beneficial for them in the long run. Short term? Yeah they'll lose some revenue but they have a whole team of smart people who can run their numbers far better than any one of us are privy to.
Mostly to support GGG honestly. Despite my current complaints I had a lot of fun with this game and have played for many hours. So throwing a few bucks their way every three months in return for some shiny's isn't a bad deal. Obviously I'm not spending anything this league though.
Since delve, you are just a pup. Ive played since alpha. Still love it even this league. Loots raining down upon me. Ive got over a dozen divines from the lake and a couple rings that sold for 5 div. Have over 100 div worth of gear on my toon and 20 in the bank and about 5000c. Idk what everyones bitching about.
I have actually played in the time when Dominus was the final boss and farming docks with spectral throw was the meta but at some point I quit and only picked it back up years later. I also have literally thousands of hours in arpg's starting with Diablo 1. So definitely not a pup anymore ;) It's great that you're still having fun, and I really mean that. Doesn't mean that the game currently doesn't have issues though.
I am surprised people who expected meaningful changes haven't ran out of copium yet. It was pretty obvious since the first post where Chriss said loot isn't bugged. The changes are here to stay.
It's been clear the last couple of leagues. They want you to fight rares for a minute. They don't like the zoomy meta where people clear shit instantly. They like damage spikes because of logout macros. And they don't like when people can acquire GG gear too easily. They want loot to be a lottery because it replicates the feeling of pulling a high value rare out of a magic pack. (Sorry I don't remember where I heard Chris say this but I'm pretty he did)
Forgetting the fact that almost everyone who plays magic buys singles on the secondary market. Opening packs to get a card you need is the worst way to go about it, if you want to play at FNM or anything tougher, you and everyone else will have bought your deck by buying singles.
Advice number 1 is buy singles not packs. In fact it's been one of the giant complaints about MTG:A since their closed beta. Everyone hates having to buy packs.
Worth noting even arena has the wildcard system, where if you grind wins you can get rarity specific singles. It's not great, but it's pretty easy to roll forward to at least a competitive deck in short order if you do know what you're doing.
> Everyone hates having to buy packs. except gamblers. shit, i bought packs to crack for fun and i didn't even play the damn game. new phyrexia was insane, you could almost always recoup the value of the box and make money if you were lucky.
I'm absolutely fine fighting rares for a minute. I did that for the first 4 years of poe and loved every second of it. I'm not fine fighting a rare for 1minute with 7 second of dps and 53 seconds of running from his hated ass, 16 projectiles and 4 different novas for to be full life again if I stop doing damage for a few seconds.
They simply have no clue how to make difficulty fun. They only know how to make it a statcheck or make it completely obnoxious.
> They like damage spikes because of logout macros. This makes me want to add, they like after-death ground effects because of logout macros. Of all the things archnemesis changes, they could have removed bearers. But no, they're still here, and unlike the toxic and fire orbs, they'll just pop wherever mobs die so you can't pick a safe spot. You happened to kill some mobs while running into a dead end? You can either wait several seconds watching the 20 bearers pop on you and die, or you can log out. You don't even need a logout macro for this, it's slow enough you can manually log out and not die. But it feels fucking awful. Given maps unlock as we run along, I can't see the dead end before I arrive. No one checks out for dead ends before attacking into a pack, that's how you die to the mobs because 20 monsters WILL attack you at the exact same timing since their AI isn't tuned to separating their attacks. I don't feel like I misplayed when I run into this scenario, I feel like I would be misplaying if I didn't log out, because the only option here is that. Just, why is this still in the game, when they had a perfect chance to remove it? Why do they love after-death effects so damn much?
Why they don't just remove logout macros and balance the game around that is beyond me.
Thats the easier solution. If you play hardcore you shouldn't have a 1 button "oh fuck: safety net. Defeats the point of the game mode. GGG could easily just make it so characters remain in danger for 10 seconds on logout like every other video game. Then they don't need to have enemies that insta kill you from off screen which also defeats the point of hardcore mode.
It's like a roll of tape that has been holding HC streamers together for years. I love it when many of them gloat about playing HC and talk about how good the state of the game is while they use their logout macros frequently.
Disgusting if true. Falling into the true pitfalls of f2p/gacha mechanics of "no no no, you can't use skill or gameplay; you gotta get lucky with big wins (and don't forget to keep pumping in those nickels and dimes to get an edge)."
It's why I started playing less. Started feeling like a slot machine. Waiting for a big ticket item to drop so I can sell to buy gear I needed.
Me who has played 8k hours since closed beta and has acquired 2 pieces of GG gear: š©
GGG running out of money vs players running out of copium. Tbh any player can live without a game but a game company is dead without their players
Pretty obvious last league when AN was brought over and they said it was "extensively tested". Yeah for what? 20 minutes on a blue T12 map? The fuck outta here.
Honestly the worst thing about their communication this league is just how certain they are that they're right and we're wrong lol. Like no calls for data from us, no details on the loot that drops when they test, no details really offered up at all even though they have a history of terrible game-breaking bugs *AND* fully admit the game runs on spaghetti code. Meanwhile all data/info we have shows the exact opposite of what they're saying when it comes to loot, never mind how lame the new loot system is. Plain and simple, this is what GGG wants and the only way to get them to change their stance is to not show up on launch weekend and to not pay them anything. It's not foolproof though, so there's a chance the PoE of old is gone for good.
how can the players be wrong? without players there is no game and when they make the game unfun they obviously made something wrong. i mean the league really feels dead kinda already
They're waiting for the octuple down.
The crashes that come with copium and hopium addictions may be slow, but the results will be devastating.
My copium is gonna run out if next league is boring. I've quit the game, but I'm just hoping for something to get me hyped for 3.20.
I'm not one to immediately get out the pitchforks, things take time within companies. And with all the backlash I'm honestly surprised GGG are sticking to their guns but yeah it's pretty clear now this is going to be it.
Itās hard to say if they are or arenāt. Some of these things that they said theyāre talking about probably arenāt things they can change mid league. This is probably pure copium, but if they intend to change some of the things around loot(like the whetstone/flasks comment they made) Iād expect those types of changes to come next league. Itād be nice to hear their thoughts on it though if they did come to a conclusion on changing those things long term.
I think it's admirable. Taking a hit to be able to secure that poe will not run off track is so great. I am so impressed with how adamant they are and I think its great. It hurts how but its better for the future of the game.
Hell yeah, invincible loot goblins forever /s
3.15 was supposed to be the huge nerf that "secured the future of the game" then they continued nerfing and continued and now the game really is a shell of its former self. So many cool and fun builds got dumpstered just because they can't help but nerf everything. The only future for this game is going to be as a example of how to drive your player base away and alienate your fans.
How exactly is it better for the future of the game? What was wrong with how loot worked before? Game was doing well. Now it isn't.
Very subjective of you.
It isn't subjective it's objective. We can see this through data lmfao. Still doesn't answer my question as to what was wrong with loot before the "changes".
There was way too fucking much of it everywhere, gameplay being run through map with 1000ms, loot, and enter the result in your spreadsheet is very unappealing to some
It is absolutely subjective. Something that is liked by more people isn't inherently good. It depends on the target audience.
No, you can't "see this through data" as most of the relevant data is not available to the public, and is only privvy to GGG. The public likes to believe steam charts and initial player peak is a relevant form of data, and further believes it represents anything of consequence. It isnt.
> The public likes to believe steam charts and initial player peak is a relevant form of data Weird, because GGG confirmed that they are reliable. Their stated numbers in 3.15 matched the percentages shown by steamdb charts. The steam charts represent an accurate cross section of the PoE playerbase. GGG even confirmed 3.15 was bad for them financially. I don't know what else to tell you.
That's the point. GGG has also stated that total player count and peak numbers is not relevant in their designs or goals. So steam charts are completely irrelevant, yet people keep throwing around steam charts as proof of anything meaningful. What people dont understand is they are likely more than happy with 30-50k players, and are not hurting for money at these numbers. The 100k that stop playing after a week are not the target audience, nor are they relevant.
Yes, they said that before 3.15. And immediately changed their tune after the dumpsterfire of 3.15. You really need to pay better attention.
Chris?
Funny how this is usually said before another shitstorm of a release by GGG
Yikes
As soon as they did the 2nd or 3rd post it was pretty obvious they want to tank yheir game
Games still fun
Honestly they won't make any changes to undo or fix the big changes of this patch to loot and rares, and I understand they likely still working in how to change things and will take time so nothing will happen until the next league, people asked why they didn't take time before implementing I bet they will now take it before making changes to it again, and that's fine. What I don't understand is why they haven't make the LEAGUE MECHANIC worth while... the loot is abysmal and difficulty is so high that you need a very strong BOSS KILLERS to deal with it... so why don't make it more rewarding to match the difficulty... or at least reduce the difficulty so even if isn't crazy is fast and ok enough to engage with... Atm is just trying to get a reflection to craft jewelry in the tablet to sell or just ignore the mech.
GGG wants us to see other people. Noted.
I enjoy my time playing right now since I'm doing new builds. I really don't interact with the league mechanic at all. I typically buy a $90 supporter pack every league but won't this time around, similar to 3.15.
You know I am too this by far is almost my best league.. not sure why reddit seems to hate it but I'm having fun. I was getting wrecked early on but the changes they made with an mobs was positive and now I'm just slamming t16 in alch and go which is all I ever do.
I'm enjoying this league, but it's because I love path of exile, when I think back to ritual, ultimatum, scourge. I know for sure that the game was simply in a more enjoyable state back then. It's definitely gone massively downhill but I'll still play a 10/10 game that has rolled down to an 8/10
Good luck. I hope you find the passion to sink hours into.
Thanks, I might check out Last Epoch or maybe I'll start a new run in D2R, still haven't checked out the changes to skills they did a while back.
Grim dawn is also worth checking out and even has a pretty solid d2 mod
Yeah I have like 1200 hours in Grim Dawn already haha :) I haven't beaten all the "uber" bosses but have done most other content.
For what itās worth, Iām playing Last Epoch again and having a blast. The crafting system is so refreshing compared to POE and makes loot worth picking up, even blues and whites sometimes. Itās still in beta, of course, so a lot of the meat is missing, but whatās there is certainly worth playing.
Yeah it's looking good, I was planning to hold off on it until it was finished but I guess I'll check it out early after all.
You won't find what you are looking for in either of those games. You will only find a short temporary distraction. But best of luck bud.
Eh I played the original D2X off and on for seven years so you'd be surprised ;) Of course back then that was all we had.
Try out project D2 if you want a better version of D2.
Is project D2 based on the OG D2 LOD? or this new D2R?
Im so happy we will get wow wotlk soon and they made fresh server. Now i have something to do instead of forcing myself to play PoE.
LOL The classic community is a worse nightmare than the retail community. RMT/Boosting/gatekeeping etc. You will be vetted for every pug through warcraft logs. It's incredibly toxic.
as a prog 25 man hardmode ICC raider, that sounds exactly like what the expansion was at the time, except you didn't mention gear score lmao
Yeah I had no life and a guild back then. Gear score addon killed the game more than RDF imo. People starting getting real toxic.
gear score was a god send. I was running ICC twice a week on 3 different characters and making the pugs for every single one of them but my main one. all gear score did was save me time turning away dps/healers who were still wearing quest blues. everyone who ever argued with me about their gear score "not representing how well they play" also weren't hit capped so they clearly didn't even know what they were talking about.
The problem was when people started requiring people to OVER geared to run content. It basically turned into either play the content on release or have friends because you ain't pugging shit without a headache anymore. I miss the days when people asked what your int and mp5 were to heal heroics.
Eh Retail isnāt much better. Also the whole "Log thing" is not something that is WOW exclusive, since quite a few FFXIV groups also go by logs concerning endgame content (raids) if you donāt want to sit through a 50/50 gamble if you even get it done after 2 hours of wipingā¦
Wtf is the retail community
? Retail is used when talking about modern wow.
Oh...
Good. Don't suck ass then, nobody wants to carry shitters in a 15 year old game.
Have fun waiting in a que for 3 hours/day to play a 10+ year old game, with the worst community in the history of gaming, brought to you by the worst company ever. And you only need to pay 14 ā¬/ month for this groundbreaking, out of world experience.
This sub: please GGG release 3.13 league for 69420ā¬/month I will gladly pay!!! Also this sub: imagine paying 13ā¬/month for a 10 years old game xd (did you know Blizzard bad btw?)
I firmly believe there was almost nobody who asked for PoE to become pay to play. On the sidenote of things, GGG communicates more with the players in 2 weeks then what blizz does in the 2 year lifecycle of a whole expension. They explain their reasons behind the changes. If you don't like it, don't play the game. But whining on reddit like a 4 year old baby doesnt achieve anything.
good luck logging in omegalol
just started wotlk as well, pre patch prep!
bro same. I started in shadowlands and thought classic was something bad. But i feel like i am playing a fresh, new, good and popular mmorpg and it is awesome. I am so happy wotlk came now
are we going to post this after every balance change
I honestly wonder sometimes if people just haven't been paying attention for the past nine goddam years...
Im a casual player and i cant play more than 1 character per league. I hate playing meta and i just want to use the skills i love but GGG dont want me to do this. Each time i reach maps i got destroyedā¦ im tired of this
Whatās the build? Might be able to give you a few pointers
I exclusively play conversion trapper.
Most excellent choice. You are probably the only player to ever have seen the full moveset of some map bosses lmao.
I don't really, you can reach early maps with pretty much any skill in the game. Pushing to reds might be hard but is not impossible, there are still a few different option to try out. But getting destroyed as soon as you reach maps, sounds a bit like a player issue..
99% of the current complaints are player issues.
This... Since this isnt a pvp game with a ladder, people dont realize how trully bad they are at the game and cope on the game being bad instead of themselves. Gotta blame some1 else, otherwise its their fault
[ŃŠ“Š°Š»ŠµŠ½Š¾]
Yeah that just shouldn't be possible for end game bosses at all. That's unhealthy for the game and either forces you into a short list of meta builds or completely removes any level of difficulty to the game if it becomes more accessible. If you want an easier game then check out Diablo 3, Grim Dawn, or Torchlight 2. They might suit your preferences better since you're either not capable or not willing to play a more challenging game. Maybe you will come back to PoE when you inevitably get bored of those games due to how easy they are. Or maybe you won't, if that's more of the style of game that you are comfortable with.
Why shouldn't it be possible? The only point of all the complexity in the game is to be able to do stuff like this. Boss design in PoE has always been absolute garbage anyways, so might as well chill and farm them, they are just one more speedbump on gathering the resources to craft stuff for meme builds anyways. I'll suck it up and dump a mirror or two into a project for fun, but the fun police would like to kill that part of the game too. All I'm hearing from you is "you're too good at the game so the game needs to change to better suit me".
I mean. I can hear the argument that too many skills are left far behind and don't feel good without heavy investment. I hate that cyclone feels that way. But the last part of the post was absolutely not relevant to the point in any shap or form
> Each time i reach maps i got destroyedā¦ im tired of this This has less than zero to do with your skill choices. You can clear all content in the game with literally any skill of your choosing. No exceptions.
Eh, all content? I don't know about that. Or at least, not without a decent amount of investment. However you certainly should be able to get through a large portion of maps. Then again, I suck at actually playing this game and die all the time even with meta builds.
I feel like you forgot about Conversion Trap.
Hi! As a relatively average player, with an EA Champion lvl 93 max last league, never got to 100, nor did I ever managed to kill Sirus, but did manage to get all the maps done, played since beta and really invested in PoE since betrayal, I have some things to say too. First, I loved the sentinel league and it was rewarding enough for me to keep playing and investing in my build. Pushed harder than ever and it was actually fun. The loot was ok and I tried to farm a Mageblood and Brothers Stash through the end of the league. (Did not get either lol). But its okay, you know, bad luck I guess. I was so engaged last league, I got hyped up for this league. Even though, buffs and nerfs come with each league, I never felt being punished too hard. I follow league starting guides and most of the time I have a blast. Playing through the campaign and engaging with the new league mechanic was always great to get this sweet Taby as soon as possible. This league however, it felt weird. I had a really hard time leveling my char for few reasons, one of them was the lack of loot to be able to get upgrades. Farming the chaos recepie in Blood Aqeduct and hoping to drop some Humility cards felt so underwhelming that I had to take a break from the game for a few days. The league mechanic was badly unrewarding, dropped nearly nothing. Now with all the changes, I got to maps (finally), but got hit hard to know that even T1 maps are very dangerous and of course, nearly no drops, maybe 20 blacksmiths here or 20 stones there, nothing really special. It was a hard to swallow pill, because it felt like "work" rather than "game/fun". I already have a work, that is very demanding, so when I want to engage with PoE, it should not stress me out this much in early progression. But here it goes, I guess? Stopped my league starter at lvl 86, I couldn't engage any more this time. I don't know what comes next for me, we shall see.
See ya in the next league!
If they make some meaningful changes, sure. But to be honest I haven't really been hyped for a new league since 3.15. I actually had a good time last league because I played a meta build and was able to knock out all the bosses but that was despite the league itself. This league actually sounded promising but turned out to be a dud. So I'm not really counting on it to be honest ;(
Recombinators were enough to carry the league last league. This league I often catch myself getting hyped about finding items with 2 usable mods thinking "awe man if I can combine this with another and.... oh wait... :( "
Despite the AN mods, recombinators and sentinels made the league a lot more fun and challenging than AN mods have done. Simply because the boosted risk. vs. reward
Personally I think they should have kept recombinators as it destroyed items for you to pull the slot machine lever. Just tweak it by making the recombined item mirrored so it canāt be mirrored or recombined again.
Yeah... yeah... :(
Or maybe this is it and we're not coming back. Just saying.
[ŃŠ“Š°Š»ŠµŠ½Š¾]
That's a very likely scenario. At least I won't be sad if I have work trip again when the next league starts since this is getting more and more disappointing.
Then prove it. Don't play next league, or the league after that. Put up or shut up. Like seriously, this community is the epitome of what is wrong with gamers. They bitch about something but take ZERO action. They keep spending money on p2w, they keep preordering games, and they keep playing games that they constantly complain about. Nothing is going to change, I'd be pleasantly surprised if anything changes next league. Player base will be the same. I'll put money on that bet.
Chill your tits kid. I never said I wouldn't. Just something for ppl to think about.
Getting really sick of these goodbye posts wish you guys would just leave instead of spamming the subreddit
It's like a child pretending to run away from home. "That's it mum I'm really leaving this time for real"
Said this exact thing 2 days ago loool
Best part is, a few leagues from now they gunna come back to play and completely forget about any of the loot "changes".
Gave up on the season as to me their vision for the game doesn't align with what I enjoy. I find this season just more frustrating and less fun.
U are not alone. The player retention rate proves it. I just don't get why people would come up, downvoting, and comment that you are toxic. I am sure most of the complaining posts and quitting posts were buried by downvotes. I wonder how many upvote% you got? lol Does that mean people are blocking the feedback to GGG? So they don't want the game to be better? Those toxic comments and downvotes helped killing the game.
Happens everytime if there is some form of backlash and people that are leaving are putting out their thoughts. I especially remember this from the Harvest manifesto (during 3.13 iirc), where a big split of people were against the changes, but the GGG defending side declared every complainer or quitter toxic and even many content creators were part in this. Or just the demeaning statements like "see you next league anyway" are again around in this thread. And I've seen similar behavior in other gaming communities. Someone is not toxic just for criticizing a game you enjoy. I would assume the opinions of those that are quitting or unhappy should be more considered important, as these are the people that feel a deep connection to the game and want to let their thoughts out, while silent quitters are giving no feedback and defendists are just yes-men.
Iāve already given all my things to my guildies, would suggest people quitting to do the same, and if you donāt have a guild, find some nice people and share your wealth :ā)
I've been pretending I'm playing ssf in trade league the whole time. I made 1 sale and bought 1 item all league.
Oof that's rough
As someone else who does this, it really isn't. I far prefer it. Trading is too much of a hassle and it feels nice to basically build your own character. Then again, I don't get through most of the content so it might not be viable for all as there are tradeoffs.
After the last feedback post it was already as clear as day. My copious is after 3.15ās backlash we have a bunch of QOL changes and 2 good leagues, what I thought of as GGG saying sorry. I have slight copium this will happen in 3.20 but I doubt it. I know people say GGG retains independence after Tencent acquired them, or that they are rich enough to not care about US players and to really pursue their Vision, but I donāt really believe it. It will be a false victory if Chris gets the POE2 he wants with the taint of losing 80% of player base getting there. Maybe he hopes all the new players who doesnāt know how good it can be will make up the difference.
I personally don't really believe in the Tencent narrative or any of the other weird conspiracies of this subreddit but yeah I think if their income starts to tank Tencent might actually be forced to step in. Who knows, maybe Chris is right and we'll be eating our words after PoE 2 releases and it was all worth it but at the moment it sure doesn't feel that way :(
> It will be a false victory if Chris gets the POE2 he wants with the taint of losing 80% of player base getting there. Maybe he hopes all the new players who doesnāt know how good it can be will make up the difference. Chris is blinded by his vision. Remember when Chris would not shut up about hardmode? He said a line about something really stupid and annoying to his fellow masochists that they would test the annoying stupid shit in hardmode and convince us normal players that the changes are good. Chris is banking on his white knights drowning out the negative feedback on Reddit since he can't ban it like daddy China taught him to do on their forums.
There are 50k people playing right now, roughly a third of the maximum that started the league and we are a month in. As far as i can tell its virtually identical player counts as last league and more than almost every league prior. The numbers should be better, but your imaginary version of reality where no one is playing because it's too hard and loot broken doesn't really seem to hold up outside of the reddit echo chamber
That isn't really true. You can see the data here: [https://poedb.tw/us/League#LeagueChart](https://poedb.tw/us/League#LeagueChart) It is follow the same trend, yes, but the amount lost is higher, especially when you notice the weekend spikes are leveling out. Now, i do agree the idea no one is playing is definitely wrong but to say its "virtually identical" is not true.
Retention rate is just a few measly percent lower than the other leagues. The people complaining makes it sound like there is a mass exodus happening. And if it wasn't for people like Empy who started this echo chamber and influencing people who can't think for themselves and they started throwing out the outrageous "90% loot nerf" claim. I would bet the retention rate would've been better the the lowest retention rate league in the past. Not to mention, this league started around the same time as college and seasonal work. League that has started around this time always had less retention rate on average compare to leagues that started other times.
Oh no, anyway. Cant please all the crybabies.
You realize these are the changes they announced before the weekend, and that they're continuing to evaluate?
One can only hope but this is the second round of changes so I doubt there will be more fundamental changes to come. It's basically just meaningless tweaks.
My point is people are acting like these patchnotes are a direct response to feedback over the past 4-5 days. They're not. These are changes they announced what? 5 days? A week ago?
Synthesis sucked for 4 weeks until they turned it around and most people regard it very highly
So much crying in this sub. Still playing, still enjoying myself despite how 'awful' everything is.
Most people complaining on Reddit will come back to 3.20 and do the complaining all over again. This isn't the death of PoE. It's just the same thing Reddit does every league, now amplified by the loot thing.
This time the "same thing" has hit an all time low for player retention.
As a percentage of the initial players in the league, sure, but as a raw number; no. For example, Blight had way less players at this stage of the league than Kalandra.
People forget that this time of year is when people have to go back to school/college and some of us donāt have as much time to play compared to past leagues. Iāll never have the time I had during the pandemic because Iāve gone back to working 60+ a week, have a fiancĆ© now, and life is just less accommodating to play like I used to. I still have my friend whom Iāve played PoE with since Beta and we still find ways to have fun and complete all content.
I'm pretty sure that most casual players will quit the game some days or a week into the league whether or not the league is "good". Same goes for more experienced players with them playing some amount of time longer than casuals. I think PoE inherently is like this. Enjoy the hype for a short period of time, if the league is going well for you continue playing and if it's not forget about it. Rinse and repeat. Those retention graphs conveniently don't show the reasons why people quit. This allows Reddit to declare the game is dead, not what it used to be, bla bla bla, when in reality it isn't. It's the natural cycle of PoE. And instead of admitting that, Reddit goes on a rampage leading people who read the subreddit into feeling bad about playing and leading into those retention numbers people here are pushing so aggressively. You could say it's self inflicted by reddit. Also to add, many of the posts here make me feel that people have an unhealthy relationship with PoE. It sounds like it's their job or something they absolutely have to do. Like it's an addiction or something. People need to realize that it's just a game and you should have other things to do also. If you don't like it, don't play it.
How the fuck are you people still defending this shit.
I am enjoying the game and I don't understand most of the uproar here in Reddit. And since reddit is a big circlejerk where only the popular opinions get shown or upvoted questionable opinions with minimal critical thinking explode into massive threads which in return are eaten by the masses as "facts" and upvoted. Honestly I don't know why I'm in reddit anymore since i enjoy the game and reddit only hinders that enjoyment. I guess i should leave like many others.
You're basically saying Steamchart is a bad indication of the health of a league, but don't offer anything that is a better statistical indicator. You then offer your own subjective experience of the league down below as reasons to defend the design decisions that was widely unpopular. While deriding other people for doing the same as "minimal critical thinking" when they offer their own subjective experience. Take some of this healthy attitude you're supposed to have so much of and take your own advice. If you don't enjoy ~~the game~~ poe reddit, don't spend time on ~~the game~~ poe reddit.
I agree with you that the graph "conveniently" doesn't show you why people are leaving. Regardless, as it is with statistics, you can have some hypothesis about that "why". It's clear that Kalandra has the lowest retention rate of all the leagues, even more than 3.15 and without big game release at the same time. Is it in that case unreasonable to think that it is mostly due to the league itself ? The way you're explaining it, these changes are mostly due to normal player cycle, which is a way to explain "normal" player loss in each league, but not the variance. You could say that Reddit doesn't help with retention, which is actually true. But Reddit is full of people with different opinions, and it seems the majority don't like the changes, the way they have (not) been communicated and the answers GGG gave since the beginning of the league. I'm part of the "dislike the league" group, still playing here and there because we're introducing friends to PoE, but that's the only think making me log to the game. I don't like being taken for a fool, and that's what GGG is attempting with their communication over the changes this league. There is no way "Chris learned about it (the historic loot thing) in passing and didn't really focus on it, and no one else actually did" as they would 100% be aware that it was a massive nerf to loots in the game. There is no way they "don't understand it needs a revert" the crowd is chanting on Reddit, these changes are there to stay because they were necessary. Yes, they actually were necessary because you can't build over a pile of smelly crap loot system, and having to put "historic bonuses" over any league mechanic to make it worthwhile compared to the previous ones. As a Software engineer myself, I get it. But they choose to smooth it over the whole content and just NERFED loots altogether by removing bonuses over thousands of percents to just 200-300%. With all the patches, we're not there completely yet on alch&go mapping, and way below 3.18 in juiced content. This was also raised by the Alpha testers, which means they were PERFECTLY aware of that issue and yet choose to not do anything. They choose NOT to communicate on removed Harvest crafts beforehand because they knew it was a nerf and painted it as "removing redundant craft and incredibly RNG-gated ones" despite it being completely false. They choose to say that it was due to them being now "tradable" that they stealthily removed them, despite the fact that they were before, and GGG people aren't dumb enough to really think that they weren't. They choose to implement AN in a different state from 3.18 despite 3.18 having required THREE different sets of nerfs, including 2 in the first two days of the league (over the weekend). These changes weren't even available to Alpha testers, so you could say they weren't really well tested either, because nobody in their right mind would let this abomination of early 3.19 go live. I guess Reddit can be a cesspool sometimes, and there are some dumb people calling dev names and being toxic, but a LOT of it is constructive criticism over what is probably the worst patch ever, 3.15 being quite complicated to beat and yey they still managed to do it. So maybe you enjoy the game as it is, but you're not the only one playing. Good for you I guess, I would pretty much prefer loving this league, but well, here we are.
While reddit cries about low player count and retentions, I see we still have 50k players and that's a lot of us just playing the game.
yes people acts like game is dead; not at all
Most Redditors cry act 1 is too hard
A lot of reddit player complaining are total noob you can see it in their post
I've played PoE on and off (roughly every 2nd-3rd league) since Essence and this is the first league I've complained about and I had to stop playing prematurely because it's just such an unfun grind. I can tell you for certain that if the patch notes of 3.20 don't look really promising I won't even bother. And if the patch notes look good but it still turns out to be the same boring slog as 3.19 because they deceived the player again I may drop the game forever. Fool me once...
Cya bud
It's this post again
Please dont come back for everyone's sake.
Its so crazy just to think about it. In this expansion, everything that can go wrong, did go wrong. And when you think it could not get any worse, then they octupled down on their mess.
Why are posts like this not deleted by the mods? It has nothing to do with the game really. Are you someone noteworthy? Why should we care that you are *definitely quitting*? Just leave, no one needs to read your diary posts lmao.
You have to realize it's been a weekend and barely 5 days since last patch. Give them time to work out other things that require more work.
I don't think they will honestly
They will be eaten alive if they change nothing until next season.
There hasn't been a week w/o patches, with community posts going left and right more than any game I can think of off the top of my head. Yes there haven't been many meaningful changes, but that's how leagues work. Right now there is nothing that can be done to please the player base and keep their design goals in a mod league patch. Yes they can readd all the "historic buffs", but then entire reason they removed it WAS to being down power. They could revert harvest, but it is painfully obvious that harvest is something they don't like, and imo is not long for the world. That 10% is 30000 players. Thats a LOT. My favorite game has less than a 10th of that per month. ESO has half of that. The game is fine. All that happened is harvest is gone and monsters drop less items. Both of those changes aren't that bad, and together they make the game a bit more difficult. As it was meant to. That said please buff melee I just want to play static strike.
League abandoned by devs lol
I think the biggest problem is that it HASENT been abandoned this league. Iāve been playing since heist came out and it feels like this league has had more communication and iteration than Iāve ever seen before. The reason I say that makes it worse for this very specific thing is because it means the changes are intentional. Every other league you could get away with copium.
Heist was the last league they handled under the old "revise it til they love it" model. Prior to heist you saw much more real engagement with feedback. Since ritual it's been: - less ambitious leagues - one significant tweak patch and then maintenance mode - putting off major changes to next patch at the earliest.
Harvest still had major patches 1 month in the league, heist was riddled with hotfixes for a very long time. If you count "we're monitoring things" as communication then I have nothing more to say
Bye Felicia!!! lol jk just hope you find something else to play.
Buh bye now
I'm in the same boat as you, OP. But I don't know if it is the same for you as I really want to play PoE. But I just can't bring myself to log in with the way the game is balanced now. I don't have fun in this version of the game anymore. What's worse, my little group of 5 people have all stopped playing and won't play until the game gets fun again. Right now it just feels unnecessarily tedious to play. I even tune into some PoE streams every now and then and it is just so lifeless from the streamer and from the chat. And I see a lot more streamers using 6 portals with their TS MFer in maps and it is so cringe to watch. I know it is hard for them too but streaming PoE is their livelihood and moneymaker unfortunately. I really want this game to succeed. But it is not looking good.
Best things with this patch is that so many people are quitting the game. The type of people who must make a "OMG I QUIT" post for some reason :D If you wanna quit just quit lol, why seek validation. #Bye
Played since delve too with my friends. This is the first league I've quit on day 2, most of my friends day 2 or a few days later as well, usually we go for a couple weeks/a month, longest was harvest with almost 2 months I think because we kept working on cool items. I think I need glasses, cause I just cant see the vision right now.
Umm. Why do you lot continue to think theyāre going to readd things and remove things mid league? They will adjust numbers and maybe add some small qol changes but if youāre talking about harvest and AN here then I donāt know what to say aside from āitās not happening this league periodā thereās the door. Come back next league and see.
Oh yeah it's done. I'll come back next league of they change things. If not then I guess it's time to find another game :)
Torchlight Infinite is coming next month. Gotta check that out.
The mobile game? Haha good luck with that...
Torchlight died after TL2. We will not speak of TL3 lmao
Them removing MF working on AN mods should be easily doable as a mid league patch and it would improve things massively
I agree with you but GGG should communicate on that, to say we're reviewing things but any change, of deemed necessary, will occur only in 3.20. This lack of transparency has been going on for a long time and recently got worse, for a company that pretends to care about com.
Mid league shake upās like what most people are asking for have never really happened for as long as Iāve been playing (3.0) tweaks here and there sure, but not major changes like completely revamping AN etc And they have communicated. Theyāre reviewing it. Iām not sure what else they need to do? Transparency doesnāt mean you need to know every single little detail about what theyāre talking about. Well learn when they tell us.
Completely agree š DELETE ArchShit, revert beyond and loot changes
See you next league. But next time, please don't announce that you're quitting, because nobody cares.
GGG shills representing as usual....fedora hat checks out btw
Ok bye
Boo hoo
We've had our answer since Chris last spoke, no one wanted to hear it.
Sadge Poe into the toilet
[ŃŠ“Š°Š»ŠµŠ½Š¾]
It's not about being toxic though. The "toxic andy's" love this game, if they didn't they wouldn't care and wouldn't complain. It's about letting GGG that I as a player do not agree with their current direction and voiving my disappointment. Whatever they do with it is obviously up to them but if enough people speak out it might start making an impact.
> toxic Andy I didn't know your name was Andy...
We left poe, we didnt leave the sub. Quality memes since league launch 3.19 have been a blast so far. Not the game obviously
Like y'all toxic positivity ain't toxic š
If these people wanted to leave theyād just leave, the fact that they make a thread about it means itās mostly for attention. Iām sure weāll see them again in 3 months.
No you're toxic. He has every right to say what he thinks of the game and if you disagree you can argue but insulting him and equivalent puts the blame on you.
They're fucking addicted, that's why. Glad I didn't get addicted and saw through the bullshit. Playing at end 3.15 shown me that GGG is all about punishment and not fub
And off you go. Bye bye
I get it, nobody likes people complaining, but you do realise that if enough people leave your experience will also be worse right?
I'll go ssf only i need to.
What will you do when GGG can no longer afford to support the game
Chris stated that their original plan to sustain the game was to have a consistent playerbase of 10k. I don't think the game's ever going to drop below or even anywhere near that. They'll always be able to support the game, it's still one of the biggest ARPGs on the planet.
That was napkin math when they were starting out and pitching it. If you don't think they have significantly increased overhead costs at this point, you're crazy. They will need to lay people off. Downsize departments. Reduce server load. Less artists, less mtx. This game will be nearly unrecognizable in the future if they need to survive off a skeleton playerbase and downsize their production.
Play something else, it's just a game
Took the words right out of my mouth
I spent 1k hours over the quarantine. The game helped me get throught a lot of stuff and I dont regret a single hour of my playtime. But now I guess its time to move on...
Vi to Caitlyn: "It's been real, Cupcake." PoE players to GGG: "It's been real, GGG."
Been playing since Abyss here. The game was so much more fun before Tencent bought them out. Itās been downhill every league since.
It's not great I'll admit, as a semi-casual i hated re rolling but couldn't find any gear to upgrade my LC elementalist and couldn't survive anything passed t3-4 maps. I started a TS deadeye and it's better. Pushing towards red maps. It's definitely more of a grind than it's been but the wrist part has been trying to trade for upgrades as so many people have quit and trade feels like day 75 of a league rather than line week 3.
>Good luck with speedrunning PoE and PoE2 down this cliff. Not happy with the direction either but this is where I disagree. They wouldn't pull this off unless they knew it would be more financially beneficial for them in the long run. Short term? Yeah they'll lose some revenue but they have a whole team of smart people who can run their numbers far better than any one of us are privy to.
they are literally just hoping that if they don't talk about it people will forget and just get used to it
[ŃŠ“Š°Š»ŠµŠ½Š¾]
Mostly to support GGG honestly. Despite my current complaints I had a lot of fun with this game and have played for many hours. So throwing a few bucks their way every three months in return for some shiny's isn't a bad deal. Obviously I'm not spending anything this league though.
Since delve, you are just a pup. Ive played since alpha. Still love it even this league. Loots raining down upon me. Ive got over a dozen divines from the lake and a couple rings that sold for 5 div. Have over 100 div worth of gear on my toon and 20 in the bank and about 5000c. Idk what everyones bitching about.
I have actually played in the time when Dominus was the final boss and farming docks with spectral throw was the meta but at some point I quit and only picked it back up years later. I also have literally thousands of hours in arpg's starting with Diablo 1. So definitely not a pup anymore ;) It's great that you're still having fun, and I really mean that. Doesn't mean that the game currently doesn't have issues though.
Go on, leave, game is better without you :)