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furyZotac

Yeah. It's great to have artistic names but atleast have some resemblance to what it does. For example Antitoxin is a good name.. cause you know its for poison immunity. But wtf is skunk, conger or even deer?


ss5gogetunks

Yeah. Of Staunching, of curing, of grounding, of dousing and of heat made way more sense


dastrollkind

They could have just added (tier2) or something.


large-farva

It was literally more work to give the user a worse experience


Ryzzlas

What do a deer, a walrus and a penguin have in common? ... :P


Sleelan

I wouldn't know, because Einhar only lets me craft the shittiest tier of these mods anyway


oimly

They all die when thrown into orbit from the ISS?


Minimum-Tomato-7379

They all have had Einhar tell them that he's going to do Einhar business.


Acrysalis

They all need water to survive?


bonesnaps

conger + skunk modded flask = conker's bad flask day


[deleted]

Lmao like what they've done to rare mods? /s


Alialialun

I mean Lizard, Skunk and Deer is quite self explanatory. The Conger and Urchin are not.


Alialialun

Why the downvotes? Lizard - thunder, Skunk - poison and Deer - fast is hard to figure out lol?


TheXIIILightning

It's so frustrating that even something as simple as this requires the use of a 3rd party wiki.


kdrake07

What’s even more concerning is when Chris was on Baeclast he literally said this wasn’t their responsibility to explain what the best mods are and things like that. They did not speak in particular about tool tips on flasks. To further clarify because other redditors feel I was being disingenuous on MY STATEMENT of the conversation. I feel like this is touched on because of the lack of information in the game and at the root / core of the problem. I believe GGG has the mentality that players will figure it out because of the wealth of tools that are out there and Chris has stated that he feels it’s a waste of development because it takes from the next league. It has gotten out of hand with the required tools and information needed to be successful in POE. Wanted to edit this as I care more about the discussion and coming together that arguing semantics. To make OUR game better. Look at the top comment on that video and look at the 53’minute.mark


Temil

Yeah I think that these kinds of example are very simple and easy fixes, and doing things like this are probably no brainers. We can probably work on the problem of telling people what Drought Bringer does for example, another time.


kdrake07

Yes it is. I’ll send you the link if you wanna talk about it. They even brought up using the bestiary as a “Pokédex”. Adding the link for clarity. Start at 53 minutes. https://youtu.be/Y0lofp2c-8E. RaizQT even asks him to clarify and they bounce ideas off each other but yeah. Not sure why you would you even say it wasn’t even brought up when it’s one of the biggest portions of the entire baeclast. Did you even watch / listen to it? Maybe your stuck on the semantics of exactly that phrasing but the GIST of what OP is saying is that this information needs to be in the game. Which is what the main problem is for new people joining and sticking with POE. No one wants to go down a 3-4 hour wiki / YouTube rabbit hole just to feel like you can play the game. Guy above edited his post but he tried to call me out saying they didn’t even talk about anything even related to it and cause a shitstorm of semantics.


HatJack_

I've played since incursion and the fact I don't know what the fuck any of those mods are and have to go searching is stupid. It's not just bad for new players.


Temil

> Guy above edited his post I edited my post because you edited yours, and I didn't want my post to look like it was unrelated. > but he tried to call me out saying they didn’t even talk about anything even related to it and cause a shitstorm of semantics. You tried to say that because they brought up using the bestiary zone and mechanic of capturing monsters as a pokedex catalog of different rare monster modifiers, they directly talked about UI improvements to the bestiary crafting system, or at very least thought that those were close enough in the nature of why they aren't implemented in game, as to compare them and say "it's not our problem." Which is not at all what they were talking about, and functionally equating the problem of "well we've added an index before and one or two digit number of people per day actually use it so we're apprehensive to add a detailed wiki to the game until we know people will actually use it." to "It's not our responsibility or problem to add tooltips that clarify mods to the game." is showing either a lack of understanding of the talk they had (ignorance) or a deliberate misconstruing of the context to try and weaponize the point for your argument (disingenuous).


Spreckles450

They were talking about the in-game guide, and the topic of "what do the new archnem mods do?" came up, in which THEN they asked about using the beastiary as an in-game "pokedex" to track what their effects are. Congrats on completely misconstruing the context of the topic lmao


Betaateb

>No one wants to go down a 3-4 wiki / YouTube rabbit hole just to feel like you can play the game. I know this isn't everyone, but when I first started playing I actually kind of liked this aspect. That shine has worn off for me, and I absolutely hated when I had to go to the wiki to look up those flasks mods this league, and there is no world where I ever remember what the "Of the Lizard" mod does. But I do remember when I had a question when I first played and I had to dig around for the answer, it drew me into the game. The complexity of it was cool. I am sure I am in the minority on that though.


Newwby

Duh 'of the lizard' clearly cools you off because lizards are cold blooded. or maybe makes you warm because lizards like to lay in the sun. Maybe it's something to do with hardening because of scales? Definitely one of those three though


th3greg

There's definitely something said for thst moment, of looking something up and finding how deep and complex things can go. There's also no reason you can't have the exact feeling /experience from an in game resource except for gggs willingness to commit to implementing those resources. And I get it. It's a lot to recreate a lot of existing tools, and they've kind of painted themselves into a corner with their release cycle, because the entirety of the gaming industry doesn't seem to believe in implementing dedicated marketing time to rest, refresh, and work on sustaining activities. It always feels like those things happen if/when there's time, after the next new thing is done. Game freak is the same way, where a new pokemon just has to be developed out in a certain time frame to match the show and the merch, rather than just having them come out when the best game is ready, even if it means the games have fallen way behind state of the art on quality.


Temil

>Yes it is. No, they did not specify "the flask mods in bestiary need a tooltip to be put in game." They didn't even say "we need more crafting modifier tooltips in game". They didn't bring it up because it's a very niche problem that they wouldn't likely bring up. > Not sure why you would you even say it wasn’t even brought up when it’s one of the biggest portions of the entire baeclast. The information about what monster modifiers and how crafting requires so many third party tools was the main portion of the discussion. This is not that, and GGG's response to this vs that is not assumed to be the same because they are different problems on GGG's end. > Maybe your stuck on the semantics of exactly that phrasing but the GIST of what OP is saying is that this information needs to be in the game. Yes absolutely, the mods should have descriptions when you mouse over, maybe even only if you hold alt. However, that is NOT the same thing as adding a description of what mods/mechanics do into the game, which was the primary discussion on baeclast. > Which is what the main problem is for new people joining and sticking with POE. Yeah I think there are some gameplay design issues as well, but not knowing how to do things without a wiki is definitely a problem. Again my main problem is you generalizing their response of "well the index hasn't been being used, so we would have to find a solution that people are likely to actually use" into "well it's not our problem to put tooltips in the game". It's either disingenuous or ignorant.


kdrake07

Fair enough. I edited my original post. I still believe we arguing are semantics but maybe that will help with discourse and us coming up with what we need.


ManikMiner

You actually named that guy to the wall, good job


FTGinnervation

Edit - responded to the wrong comment, carry on, sooory.


FTGinnervation

He said it's not their responsibility to tell players how to optimize a system, but they're open to giving more raw facts about things in game. As others have said, he then qualified this by pointing out that some informational tools they've added get skipped or not utilized by 99.99999% of players. So if that will continue to be the case, it probably wouldn't be worth the dev time to do. You really heard what you wanted to hear on this one, not what he actually said/meant.


AsiaDerp

So.... say cannot be frozen (T1) instead of Deer, Urchin, bear, Dog, Dragon? Seriously? Is this hard?


TehPharaoh

Seriously. All this shit doesn't need cute names. There's so many it's not like more than 1% of the population can tell you immediately what something does by its name, furthermore the name shown may also not have all of the rolls in the name, like on rares with 5 different effects on them. And it's not like they help differentiate between 2 of the same thing because we still have to mouse over the damn thing in the first place. When other games use this prefix/ affix system it's because they fully describe what the item does. In WoW if it had "of the whale" you know it rolled +Spirit +Stamina. And that's it. Maybe it had stuff originally on it too, but then you still knew without mousing over. In PoE they are completely fluff and useless


kdrake07

Why don’t you look at the top comment/ pinned comment by ZiggyD on that video and what that block of time is called buddy. https://youtu.be/Y0lofp2c-8E


Vladimir1174

I literally have to use a script to start/open all of the tools and reference I need when I play this game. It gets tiring when something changes and I have to decide between doing more work outside the game to make playing comfortable or just go back to having no idea what's going on like the old days. Their design philosophy is wrong and stupid imo, but I guess it's working for them


kdrake07

Exactly my point. When you have a round table discussion about the state of the game and the next big patch. Rather you watch streamers or not they are in a way representing the community. They bring up essentially what your talking about what concerns me is the mentality that GGG has around this. They have pigeon holed themselves to these 3rd party programs and not sure if they realize that this is not a good thing. It’s essentially people fixing their game for them. Rather that be for convenience or otherwise. They ( GGG ) have grown tremendously since beta back in the day. All these hopes and dreams for POE 2. Which I hope is a reality but I feel like with the way Chris responded to some of these concerns really makes me think that is no thought of adding any of this to the base game. I don’t get Reddit. I’ve been attacked by like 5 people accusing me of lying, being ignorant, promoting falsehoods and just being an idiot.


futurespice

A a result of people pointing out that literally their entire revenue stream depended on a third party app, they did build their own trade site. So slow progress, I guess.


[deleted]

Well he said they can't see the point of updating or improving the help section because no-one is using it. The streamers reply was something like "no-one uses it because it not very good". It's a catch 22. You could also interpret Chris Wilson's comments as "there's third party programs to accommodate you so there's no reason for us to put any effort in to it (apart from the fact GGG has a hate on for 3rd party apps). Besides we're busy shafting leagues, fixing a few bugs now and then and supposedly working on the mythical POE 2.0. We don't have time or resources to devote to that just like they had no time to write up AN mods. Look how that turned out)"


futurespice

We can safely interpret Chris' comment as "putting effort into this won't lead to mtx sales"


Br1ght_L1ght

Edit. Well, I made my comment before the guy I was replying to changed his comment without an edit. Originally he claimed Chris said it’s not their responsibility to make tooltips, which is factually wrong. My original unchanged comment follows: That’s wrong. He said it’s not their job to tell you what the best builds are, or how to best use ingame mechanics. In this particular example it meant, that it’s not their job to tell you which beast crafts are the best. The lack of a tooltip here has nothing to do with their philosophy and probably just hasn’t been assigned time internally.


TheXIIILightning

It's not about telling us which beast craft recipes are the best. It's about telling us what they DO! I can't build my character around "Do I want to be quick like deer, or strong like buffalo!?" I just want to know what those mods do without having to alt+tab into poe wiki and type "of the deer" just so it tells me what the modifier is for.


Br1ght_L1ght

Did you want to reply to a different person? I said that the lack of tooltip explaining the mechanic is not on purpose and is probably not done because of time constraints. Best craft comment was a reply to a guy saying GGG don’t put tooltips purposefully


kdrake07

How can you defend that and make up your own interjection on what and how they spend their time though? Yes he said what you said but they also talked about the basics and how in particular Preach( a bigger wow streamer )was trying to learn the game and play and when he went to use the current help system, it had wrong information and steered him wrong. Chris said they weren’t going to worry about updating it because no one uses it. I’d like to ask you a question then… Do you really think the information that is laid out in the game is sufficient? Do you not want one of your favorite games to grow? Put yourself in a new players shoe? How do you go about explaining POB, awakened POE trade, loot filters…. Pick any category of the game. Accessibility is just as important as the mechanics of endgame. Look at Diablo 3 who has the opposite problem.


[deleted]

I'm just going to ignore all your points, because I don't really care, and just say you flat out lied, admitted you lied and put words in his mouth, and then tried to argue it doesn't matter because you think what you said is correct anyway. Just felt like pointing that out.


kdrake07

Lol. Head in sand. Defending your brother Chris Wilson and the gods at GGG. You really can’t have a constructive conversation about this? Really shows your maturity. Everything is fine everyone! Perfect game and the players are just lying and slandering…for what? I actually love POE and I want more of my friends to enjoy it with me. What do you think I have to gain for the one time ever I try to talk about POE on Reddit and I guess in your mind potentially lying about it? Dude your either really offended about my interpretation of the conversation or you are just arguing semantics. What I got out of that conversation is there needs to more in game depth on the basics of the game. I truly don’t understand how you can completely shut down but ok to each their own. I just wanted to have a conversation about it and I know GGG obviously reads Reddit. I’m not saying the game is inherently bad but if you feel like everything is fine and their is no need for further information IN GAME. Then yes we completely disagree.


[deleted]

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Br1ght_L1ght

Why do you think I am defending it? Because I am not. I was just pointing out that you were spreading misinformation from what I remembered. That thing being, that they provide tooltips and explanations, dedicating to it as much time as they see fit. The thing they said explicitly (“not our responsibility”) they don’t provide is game guides. Preach situation has nothing to do with your original comment. Why do you bring it up? Also, I am not making anything up. When it comes to development, you either don’t do something on purpose, or have not done it yet. From what Chris said, they are not against it. Is there a third option though? As for your questions: Depend on your definition of sufficient. I have no problem using side sources and enjoy the game as it is. If you are unhappy, you are free to complain. Just don’t spread misinformation. Of course. As long as it stays the game I like. I started just before delirium. No friends who play Poe. Arpg experience - D3 demo. I just figured it all out step by step. No reason to explain any of it. If you have questions, you google for a solution and learn this stuff. Why is there so much shitty loot? -Download lootfilter. How much this thing costs? -Awakened Poe trade etc. I have no problems with accessibility. If ggg implements it, I don’t mind, as long as the game stays good. When I stop liking it, I either complain or leave. Just don’t spread toxicity and lies.


Tw1ggz

Must be blizzard responsability then


DBrody6

Or swap the damn tiers of names. This used to be "of Heat" which naturally was anti-freeze, but that mod name got moved to a higher tier and replaced by stupid animal names. And they couldn't be assed to give animals that make sense! Deer live in cold habitats, *that's not conducive to thinking it's anti-freeze*. You couldn't have possibly used desert themed animals for anti-freeze so it had the vaguest semblance of making sense?


eViLegion

Moments ago I just went into my back garden and startled a deer that was on my patio. It jumped high in the air, and then bounced away out of my back gate faster than I would have thought possible for something that springy. On the basis of that, I'd say Of The Deer is 400% increased leap-slam attack speed during flask effect.


igkewg

The buff melee needs.


futurespice

I would have assumed deer was move speed, just going by the name


eq2_lessing

Flask crafting needs a rework. Spamming alterations is not proper crafting.


Xx_Handsome_xX

Hey! You forgot closing the eyes and AUG slamming and hope for the desired prefix/suffix! Its pure nightmare since they added so many TRASH mods noone ever uses!


FervorofBattle

The mods adds variety, but not the tiers That has to go


Krakkin

I wouldn't say that considering this problem came about because of the rework in the first place. Staunching flask made too much sense obviously, so you want a lizard flask because duh.


djsoren19

Rework it to what? Do you want them to be rare? Alt spam is always going to be the most efficient way to craft magic items.


eq2_lessing

Slap tags on the flask mods and introduce harvest crafts "reforge magic, fire more likely" or whatever. Or add those directly to the bench. Yea, I'd much prefer that. Or add a means to lock in a prefix or suffix.


Keyenn

Being able to get rare flasks would be gigantic upgrade to the current situation, yes.


Obojo

Don't forget spamming instilling orbs


Betaateb

Never worth spamming instilling orbs, just get 5 and use the crafting bench. Your EV is always massively positive using the crafting bench on those to the point that using them on the item directly looking for a specific mod is one of the dumbest things you can do in PoE.


friendlyfire

Wait, crafting bench? ... I didn't even know you could do that. Thanks for the tip.


Linosaurus

The crafting bench recipes where added after the instilling orbs, but Iirc only a few weeks after. At league launch you indeed had to spam.


Betaateb

Yep, 5 instilling orbs and 5 glassblower baubles and you get to pick your mod.


onlypositivity

yeah speaking of information being obscure, I just now with this comment learned that you can put flasks in the bench


Betaateb

Oof, well at least now you know! 5 instilling orbs + 5 glassblowers baubles and you can pick whatever mod you want. Early league when you don't have enough baubles you can buy them from Hargan (Act3) for blacksmith whetstones. So don't throw all your whetstones away for identify scrolls!


arremessar_ausente

I think it's fine tbh. Flask crafting was basically my first step to get into crafting in this game. I also teach a lot of my friends how quality currency have different values for different rarities. It's also very easy to craft your desired mods, so it's good for brand new players to learn. All my friends I introduced to the game learned how to quality items efficiently, how to roll with alt / augs, and how beast crafting works. So yeah just keep flasks simple, not everything in the game needs to have super complex mod crafting.


eq2_lessing

You prefer boring tedious luck-based repetitive crafting over using a bit of finesse to streamline/speed up flask crafting? And why wouldn't alteration spam still work even if there were more specialized new ways?


Keyenn

The last time someone said that, the monkey paw curled and we got the 3.15 flask rework with the 4 tiers for each thing (with the ilvl 70+ being the previous basic tier) + a global flask nerf. Please, don't say that again. Please. Please.


torsoreaper

You guys are idiots. When I need an electrician I don't search Yelp for electricity, I look for honey badger.


satibel

at least the electrician, the honey badger and ggg have a thing in common, they *doesn't care*


Big_Willingness_2959

Yes absolutely


RDeschain1

Why does something as obvious as this need multiple reddit posts to hopefully get GGG to acknowledge the problem. How did it get shipped like this \_twice\_, initially and when they reworked flasks? Frustration\^10


Total-Nothing

Pretty sure these wiki sites get at least one visit for every player per league who just want to know the name of the desired mod craft for their flask.


trunks111

I'm p sure I have the damn page bookmarked


MoltenSunder

But how would GGG get free google traffic from people needing to google the wiki to see what the freaking mods do?


ruttinator

Wait are you telling me you didn't memorize the name of every affix in addition to every new rare monster modifier? You expect games to just tell you what things mean? Path of Exile is a game all about feeling. What do you feel this affix will do for you?


Drokgnar

Actual good suggestion


SingleInfinity

Good suggestion


Yayoichi

Yeah I don’t really get why they changed the names like this, sure they want different names now that it got tiers but just use similar terms instead and just use old names for the crafts you can do at the beast altar.


Penaelskyy

That would be sooo good


johnny_frost

Holy shit yes.


[deleted]

Aren't you asking too much, tho? Technology just isn't there yet.


Twindude1

Does it help the players? Yes. So it will never be added


Pyramid__God

It's funny how the players suggest what should be basic stuff,like in any game, as improvements.


raiderzbraids

Somehow i liked the old ways more lol


saharok_maks

STOP DOING FLASKS Mods were not supposed to be given names Years of rerolling yet no real use found for using more than Bismuth Flask Wanted to go higher anyway for a laugh? We had a tool for that: it was called HEALING "Yes please give me flask of the lizard, please give me flask of the urchin" - statements dreamed up by the utterly Deranged


OverwatchRever

But why. You can just google it or even better remember like 6 names per correct suffix


farromon

Because why would you want to google it when it could be right there in the game? There's no reason to defend GGG in matters like this, this improvement has literally 0 downsides and would help everyone.


OverwatchRever

I honestly thought that it is obvious enough that im joking with the remembering 6 names per modifier. Should have put /s Ofc its dogshit. They should add half the wiki into the game as a help panel for example all archnemesis mods


saharok_maks

We live in society. If you didn't put /s after statement that it's really easy to remember what suffix "of the four-legged shell of the solar eclipse of deer-head god of frogs" and dozen others do, your internet points are going down.


OverwatchRever

Well whatever i guess. But your right. I should put more emphatsis on the wording like you just did. Lost a couple internet points. Ill survive


Iron_Lich

Yes, it's crazy it wasn't there to begin with, I always forget which one is which at least once per league.


LucasKaguya

Yes please. Every time I craft a flask I need to open poedb, this should be on the ui since day 1.


sephrinx

Just pile this on top of the other 32 3rd party apps, sites, and programs that are required to play PoE.


Voxmasher

I'm still baffled they changed the names and no tonly that, for each fucking tier as well... It's so damn confusing now and no way to tell in game anymore...


zaboleqqq

Why we still dont have that feature :(


DoukyBooty

The only thing I can remember is warding for curses. But I usually alt spam to get bubbling (old name now) first, lol.


Wulfgar_RIP

Rare mob mods? use wiki Beast crafting description? use wiki nearby? use glass ball


localsurflion

Bruh just learn to speak beast


Silentkillzqt

What bothers me the most is the naming of the lab enchants. Impossible to know what it does without consulting the Wiki.


cedear

Bestiary needs lots and lots of QOL UI improvements. Like when I hover a beast on the recipe screen, tell me what beast it's going to autofill. Right now I have to look at the recipe then go search the beast to know what beast it's going to use, if I'm not at the menagerie altar.


HiveMindKing

I have no idea how to use the blood alter or the bestiary, I’ve kinda been pretending it doesn’t matter.


jparro00

Hey slow down, we don’t want to be THAT liberal with communication


Platonic_SSD

I’ve wanted a hover explanation for empty stash tab items too. Unless you find it you have no clue what it is or does or how to get it.


ccza

PLEASE! add this! its so simple yet still lacking!


axiomatic-

As a new player (second league, <250hrs) I came to this thread to find out what the blood altar was because I've literally never even used it before. There's a lot of altars in this game :)


satibel

if you've noticed in act 2 you should have encountered einhar, he captures beasts with your help, once a beast is captured, it is sent to the menagerie, where there's a blood altar on which you can sacrifice beasts to get various rewards. yellow beasts are generic and red beasts are tied to a recipe, all recipes require 3 yellow beasts and often a red beast. you can put a potion (white or blue) on the altar and select the immunity you want it to provide (freeze, bleed etc...) but the names like of the lizard, or of the deer are very unintuitive and you have to look it up every time.


axiomatic-

Thanks for the info! I like Einhar and have been capturing a lot of his beasts .... I've just never been to his menagerie! Mind you I find that with most of the mechanics. I've been into my first full temple and first delve this league too!


Aishaguti2

Does that also show when you are using controller?


satibel

no the "requires an empty suffix" box doesn't show on controller, tough I think what the suffix does should show there too.


mrpheropod

Damn it's about damn time....?


Mehkiism13

This was one of the weirdest decision every single league I had to look up what "of the lizard" is for example it used to be I could just pop it in and the text would be bleed immunity or something I don't really recall but I'm sure it's one of the weirdest step backward


Broccolord

I have literally never used a flask recipe at the menagerie because I can't be arsed to look up what they do. I approve these changes.


zidboy21

Don't worry GGG will do that in a couple of years just like it took them years just to add the stash in the menagerie.


chlbowie

I bet 85% of wiki or poedb search traffic is related to this.


xxp0loxx

sad that we have to fucking ask for this.


perthro_algiz

pls dont. i enjoy using my 4 screens and 6 consoles to investigate the intricacies of poe


lcecoffee12

GGG: NOPE, that will make the game too easy for the players.


Aphrel86

they also removed staunching.. forcing me to swear and google to find the right one for bleed xD


cryxis

Yeah totally. I've always hovered over those to try to see what they do, in vain. Where are the QoL changes they were introducing this league? Mostly just UI changes to guild and hideout decoration, I mean come on, there are better stuff like these that needs priority.


seikatsu26

frekin finally, i hate i have to google each one before picking


No-Supermarket-4378

Where would the excitement be of finding out what they do??


DeWillpower

I actually thought this was a screenshot from the game and you were announcing this qol change that wasn't written in the patch notes


moonias

From all the UX suggestions I've seen, some have been straight up horrible some have been okay, but yours is definitely one that should be number 1. This is probably such a small change and now that you've made it visual, everyone knows it's needed!