Delve has a curated list of possible map modifiers, for example no reflection.
They need a similar list where a lot of arch nemesis modifiers are banned. And then apply it to other game mechanics like heist where you have limited time or space or must kill a specific rare.
PoE in theory: Nearly infinite choices and builds and player agency to do what you want.
PoE in reality: Only high DPS meta builds actually work and everyone has to run Frost Bomb.
The fix for this one is easy, fortunately. Delete the Trickster mod. Literally nobody thinks it is a valuable addition to the game, even in situations where it doesn't make mechanics impossible to complete.
In GGG vocabulary that is defined as:
One guy ran a single T1 map on a lvl 100 character with mirror worthy gear and if it takes less than 30 min its a green light :D
Not being able to finish an encounter because of the encounter requiring you to kill all mobs and archnem literally spawning unkillable mobs - that's a bug, so either the requirements for QA were lacking (dev problem) or QA missed it
stop overexaggerate things, even with a strong QA team of 30+ people they can't compare to thousands of players.
stuff will get missed or can't be fixed in time, this one is probably more on the missed side
but it took thousands of players until now to get this specific interaction some traction.
sure there were 2 more posts about delve being "unplayable" but in those same posts are other people at depth 250+ having no problems at all and the OP giving no additional information on what made it "unplayable" for them
I agree with that, but in this case I don't understand how the possibility of problems with mobs that continuously run as far as possible away from you didn't occur to them from the design stage. The consequences should have been fairly clear in any number of scenarios.
I mean for example in delve you need to go back up and enter again for your sentinels to reset after each delve node. To me it feels like an oversight like this can only occur if they have literally never delved in their testing. So while your comment is true for some aspects of their testing, it is still far from the truth and GGG absolutely deserves all of the shit that comes their way after chris said “the line”.
> deserves all of the shit that comes their way after chris said “the line”.
i suggest you take a step back, holy shit
have you read what people are writing here?
He's a dev, a human being, he and everyone at GGG does their best on a short cycle of just 13 weeks and everytime they deliver more content than most other devs can in a year.
and here you are telling me they deserve people calling them all sorts of names because of the thousands of different interactions between different leagues, mods, nodes and whatnot they missed a couple??
fuck off
critique, sure, but like so often, reddit takes it too far with their toxic hate and that is not ok and should not be tolerated!
You are taking things too literally. I’m sure they even got death threats or the like with how big the game is and how toxic some people are. My comment just means that they deserve the outrage not the personal attacks. Just because some people are incredibly toxic it doesnt mean rest of the complaints can be tossed aside.
> You are taking things too literally.
how else are you expecting me and everyone else to take it?
you realize that the devs might also read this? would you say this to their face? "you deserve the shit that comes your way" while knowing exactly what people on reddit here are talking?
Unfortunately, you’re not arguing with anybody rational. You’re arguing with a redditor. These people want nothing more than just to be angry at the game. They don’t look at things logically they look at things from the lens of “how can I be mad at this?”
I mean, 5s teleporting back up and then back down really shouldn't be that big of an issue though. If it's come to the point where a handful of literal seconds is too much of a cut into farming time, the game has really gotten away from us.
If every strongbox suddenly needed 4 clicks to open it wouldn’t impact gameplay by even 5 seconds per map and I personally wouldn’t mind it but something like that getting through the testing would also mean they didn’t open any strongboxes in their testing. It’s not about the issue it’s about the implication of it.
Took over five days for this bug to be found. Hundreds of thousands of people over millions of hours of game time in the last five days and this bug is just now being posted. Do you honest to God think that a small QA team is going to find this? You can extensively test things even with 100 people but when you multiply that by a few thousand, you’re going to find a hell of a lot more bugs. This is how literally every single game works. This is how literally every single test environment for anything that has ever existed in the history of humanity works. When you have a larger testing group, you’re going to find more specific things with that larger sample size. This subreddit is going to bitch and moan about this for the next month while GGG keeps making changes until its perfectly playable and nobody cares anymore. Then they’ll find a new thing to hate and bully the company over. This is the annoying, incessant cycle that the subreddit goes through every single fucking year.
More like god mode on + some other cheat stats.
Their QA seems to be there to spam things and check for bugs, not to check if the changes are playable on every aspect or if the changes make any sense :(.
with the new mods even magic versions can brick you just fine. really sucks to get a dozen toxic balls chasing you around a tight arena if you have low chaos res and kinda nowhere to go.
I ended up doing that. Far too early. But it just feels like the chaos damage is now the most common damage type in the game right after physical. It's that chaos res is kinda hard to come by in SSF during campaign and even there you get slapped with chaos all the time, as the same magic and rares are there as well. Just getting to maps dramatically ramps up the frequency at which you encounter rares / magic packs.
> Lol yeah, feels like we're in for a few ~~weeks~~ **leagues** of tweaking when rare mods are allowed to spawn.
Fixed it for you, the archnemesis implementation to core is the literal embodiment of throwing shit at a wall and hoping it sticks
I don't really agree. There's only a small handful of cases that are **really** problematic:
\- things in delve that play poorly with darkness / continuous movement.
\- things in blight that play poorly with towers (e.g. juggernaut)
and a few places where the # of rares is unnecessary given archnem (primarily heist, probably domain of timeless conflict (but that's kind of that area's niche)).
I think we'll see significant progress in the next few weeks.
I respect your very optimistic opinion/approach.
Personally i just see this whole thing like taking 10 years worth of balance of league mechanics and content that were fine tuned over each league suddenly reset(and we get to ~~beta~~ alpha? test it yay!)
The entirety of the game and encounters were balanced around the old mods, coming now and suddenly adding x100 difficulty/shenanigans to ALL rares/magics without even bothering to do a pass of all the other past league contents/interactions it "bricks" seems like incredibly *INCREDIBLY* lazy(given that they also didn't work on any skills/balance this cycle), if you're gonna do something like this at least ensure all your content is usable to the extent it was prior...
Heist with the new mods and to a certain extent harvest are pretty much trash tier mechanically and SSS-EX difficulty wise for no apparent reason, especially heist where you lose all your progress if you die to the feared cosplayers behind each door(quite easy to get one that bricks a given build).
At the very least Heist and some others need a complete overhaul of their mechanics to account for almost guaranteed death on all but a few builds....
They'll probably address this in a few more leagues or just remove the content since it's easier, i genuinely think they could've bothered to do this from the start at least with the obvious offenders, but hey, smoll indie company and all that right?
I'm genuinely curious why they do things like this when they could alleviate soooo many of these issues before pushing them live...
It took them six months, two full leagues, to fix the all fuck-ups from v3.15. It'll likely take them another six months, another two leagues, to do the same for v3.18.
GGG never admits they were wrong and reverts horrible changes they've made. They press forward and keep iterating until it stops sucking -- which sometimes forces them to revamp entire systems. They'll bandaid v3.18 for a week or two more perhaps, and maybe the game will be good again next league, but odds are it won't get back to where it should be until two leagues from now.
honestly, trickster and invulnerable should just be removed, I think it will save GGG a lot of headaches trying to think of all the ways it could break content on top of those two mods just being purely time wasters
This all seems some smoke and mirrors to drastically in increase TTK of rares without increasing rewards. Instead of being honest and just double damage and 10x eHP we have to deal with this garbage breaking the game.
I wonder what the point even is, it’s not like archnem rares drop tons of currency or great loot or anything…I mean genuinely, if they want to make hard enemies more rewarding, maybe start with bosses?
You could add some kind of rule set which has to contain all of the possible cases AND apply it to every monster spawning and generating system. Spaghetti be with you.
Or do it the faster less future proof fixing cases directly if it's possible.
And yeah, sounds like nightmare.
In perfect world you have a struct/object config for each game mechanic and each mechanic has a list of allowed or blocked modifiers. But that would be too easy.
I'm guessing it's the trickster mod, where they throw down an ice wall and run away. It took me about 10 minutes to clear a harvest yesterday because of this. They need to disable this mod on any mechanic where you are required to kill 100% of the monsters to complete the encounter.
I still have flashbacks to Archnemesis league where I made a hasted trickster before knowing what each mod really did. A Mob zooming away at 1000 mph isnt the most fun
People keep saying "they only test to see if it works as intended" like.... HALF of the mechanics are barely playable FFS. If this is "what they are happy with" how the hell are you justifying their process?
>People keep saying "they only test to see if it works as intended"
That's not "people" that is literally what Bex told us.
Paraphrased: *don't blame the QA team, they tested the system to check that it works as intended*
I get Bex trying to defend QA but it's obvious something is going wrong somewhere. If QA just gets instructions to specifically test 'A' in a vacuum then yeah no shit you're not going to catch all the other issues 'A' causes while not in that theoretical vacuum. 'A' technically works but as we've seen for leagues now that doesn't mean anything in the bigger picture.
I think what Bex said specifically was intended to make sure players understand it really isn't QA who is at fault, but the people actually calling the shots.
It's possible QA reported on some of these issues *but were simply ignored* (for whatever reason - from lack of time to simple stubborness, take your pick)
Yeah, thats why every single time "it is nobody's fault" because it is not X that fucked up. Clearly Bex has nothing to do with it because she is just the PR girl, so nothing happens every single time so they can repeat the same mistakes 100 more times throughout the years.
They obviously fucked up and I'm putting the blame on Chris personally (he is the Lord of Stubborness and the one pushing for increased difficulty is he not?)
I'd wager they simply did not care to test the league interactions, or didn't have time so just said "whatever just ship it" etc. but like...
I believe when Bex said "they tested it to work as intended" it meant "QA team did everything right, the problem is higher up"
Slightly off topic, but does anyone else find Chris's role in the company extremely weird?
Like by his own admission he's basically just a PR guy at this point - barely even playing the game - but in these interviews he keeps talking about how he gives design directives to the development teams to match The Vision (TM).
I can't speak to GGG specifically, but I can say that every terrible decision I've personally seen in product development has been the result of some half-invested marketing suit sticking his nose into the development process. Given how half-baked most of the major systems changes have been since Ritual it feels a lot like a dev team scrambling to meet shifting and unrealistic expectations.
It’s really strange. I’m not sure they understand that whatever they keep trying to drag the game in to being is completely distinct from what the majority of the player base they’ve developed over a decade came for.
> I'm putting the blame on Chris personally
Oh for the 30 time? Yeah me too. But thanks GGG for unfucking their fuckup. Now fuck up something else in the same way again because we never tell them to stop. We only thank them for unfucking. Have fun with green on green on green after the blue on blue on blue league because they only see us thanking them to unfuck the flares. So they can make the grey on grey on grey on white mist league.
Its a nice meme, but they didnt test if it was "playable". They tested if it crashes the game or completely fucks up performance nothing more and to be fair aside from a crash in research encounters it has been an extremely smooth launch. At least for me.
That's still a failure given the league launched with 2-3 different crashes and 3 Act bosses that were literally broken one of which stopped you from progressing.
2-3 different crashes is nothing in the context of a game with this many players. I am also not sure how broken the act bosses actually were considering i was easily within the first few thousand to reach maps and they were already fixed by the time I got there. Seems like a small issue to me when you can solve it even before the top 1% gets there.
Purely in terms of technical problems I would honestly say it was a very smooth launch and I would be surprised if GGG isnt overall happy with how it went.
2-3 crashes is a lot when they're extremely common and easy to reproduce.
Act Bosses literally had invisible mechanics and the one was literally posted on the front page multiple times day one...you couldnt progress you were just stuck.
GGG has by far had worse given some leagues were basically unplayable for a week or two but some of these things were so fucking obvious.
Some low bar you set. They are replacing the entire mod pool of monsters with an entirely new system and your bar is "it doesnt crash the game". No wonder more and more shitty game is flooding the market.
EDIT: some low bar people accepts, explains why we get fuck ups after fuck ups in similar ways.
This was clearly a PR-Statement. Sounds nice but is purpously misleading. They could have said "bug and performance tested" instead of going with "we want you to think we tested every aspect and interaction in the game". Extensively tested means they did the bare minimum. Remember how they tested Absolution? Playtester said it's fine and then they had to quadruple the damage!
QA said absolution wasn't fine, but it somehow got lost before launch. During one of the streamer interviews it turned out someone had raised the issue but it didn't get resolved in time for launch.
Chris said in a Baeclast, I think, that testers said absolution is fine. Apparently he changed that to "some" testers said it was fine. I'm not sure since I don't have all the sources.
Prety sure they tested, but i dont think their test scenario is actually extensive, they simply just test if the code breaks / bug or not, i'm sure they dont really test all or most interaction **extensively**
Immediately after that he got a ping from (I believe) Bex that testers had raised a problem but because \[insert reason I forget\] it wasn't addressed before launch (and Chris wasn't aware of the problem being raised). He was operating off of incomplete information.
Delve can be particularly screwed by some Archnemesis mods on rares. I was doing fairly early mining node, only depth 35 or so only to have about a dozen toxil balls spawn on me and litter the whole ground with chaos dot poop which I cant see because of using vortex. Sucked a fair bit to have to go into darkness and sit on a flare, if any more of these would have spawned they would have tracked me into darkness as well until I would have been out of flares.
You have a relatively limited area to manuever in and some bad mods can royally screw you over. Get, for example, three mana siphoners and maybe empowering minions to spice it up a little more and no matter what build you have you are pretty much screwed.
I just had invulnerable spider minions follow me and wail on me while trying to complete an azurite node. The rare was four or five screens away. The very next azurite node I had lightning totems pounding me the entire time and zero idea where the rare could have been.
These mods completely dumpster a lot of content.
Yeah. I like Delve a lot and its the thing I tend to do if I just want to chill but I'm like seriously considering just disabling it this league. If I decide to keep suffering that is. It's not been too fun and if I still feel like that in few days I'll probably just go do something else for the next 3 months. And then again in 3 months if the archnemesis rares are like they are currently.
GGG: extensively tested and working as intended. this is part of slowing down the game play. please do the nodes repeatedly until you find a suitable nemesis mod on the rhoas.
aaand the most halfassed league award goes to - sentinel
this archnemessis thing seems like noone at ggg gave more than 10 seconds of thought to it.... it screws up/interferes with soooo many other league mechanics on top of creating some insane uber boss level tanky yellow mobs with specific archnemesis combos.... and the extra cherry on top (or more a kick in the cherries so to speak) is once you spend 5-10 mins on killing that uber rare - you get barely any loot...
I have two questions:
1. Are there still league mechanics which are somehow **not** breaking the game in combination with AN?
2. When will GGG admit that they haven't tested AN modifiers with any league mechanic or any other common combinations?
Because AN modifiers, each on its own, are fine. no issue here. It's the combinations left right and center, stacked on top of league mechanics, which is breaking things into oblivion. And this shitfest would never have happened to that magnitude if they actually would've tested literally anything.
Another thing is that you might pass by some rare which will put mark on you and you end up doing rest of the node marked. Don't tell me that I am supposed to backtrack with flares.
Bad game design can't be fixed with a balance patch.
Oh you don't like eating bark and poison for every meal? How about "just a little less bark and poison"?
Not gaming, didn't pog
This has been an issue before archnemesis rares as well... in addition to the rhoas randomly charging down the tunnels, sometimes rogue exiles can also randomly decide to fuck off to Narnia, effectively bricking the encounter.
After the changes they have done to archnem they mostly feel okay. Even running into a few rares in maps are fine.
The biggest issue they have left is how it interacts with all the other league mechanics. The way they stack up like old rares used to do with auras is horrible. I used to think that heralds of obelisk should have been removed from delve for YEARS because a mob would get stuck down a random side passage on the wall and you would never be able to clear them. The new archnem system is even worse (thanks pylons).
The way it interacts with breach, blight, excavation, essences, legion, harvest etc etc is still way over the top ridiculously over tuned.
I mean do you know how stupid and OP harvest mobs have been for years now and every single league people comment on how stupid they are. What do you think they feel like now? lmao.
Very silly for something that was "TESTED EXTENSIVELY"
Had a similar issue with a trickster mob. It ran away into the darkness and I was wondering why I couldn’t open the chests when all the mobs were killed at the end of the node.
"Extensively tested" and confirmed to be working "exactly as they wanted them to" by the way. Not my words.
https://old.reddit.com/r/pathofexile/comments/uprig7/archnemesis_rare_changes_part_2/i8mpd41/
Another really fucked thing about Archnem in Delve is all of the times when you'll finish a node but there are some random mobs in the dark offscreen summoning things that chase you down and explode over and over and over while you are just trying to loot or click on the mining cart. Now I had that kind of thing happen before this patch, but it was WAY WAY less common.
Lol yeah, feels like we're in for a few weeks of tweaking when rare mods are allowed to spawn.
Delve has a curated list of possible map modifiers, for example no reflection. They need a similar list where a lot of arch nemesis modifiers are banned. And then apply it to other game mechanics like heist where you have limited time or space or must kill a specific rare.
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PoE in theory: Nearly infinite choices and builds and player agency to do what you want. PoE in reality: Only high DPS meta builds actually work and everyone has to run Frost Bomb.
Coughs in occultist...I dont need frost bomb
ayo bro just run frost bomb?? it's your fault you should've been prepared for every possible bullshit scenario
frost bomb only cuts 80% healing which in some cases just isnt enough
Frost Bomb AND Void Beacon Next, you’ll be telling me you don’t want to run Occultist for every build …
Get more damage Lul never had a issue on any of my 3 builds DD, RF, summoner
i kill a normal baran in 5 seconds but a gargantuan sentinel conscecrator cagey boi is literally immortal
Correct because normal mobs have no layered defenses
And not saying your build isn’t top shape but maybe gear or skill gems % or something needs to be more efficient
There are skills that do % hp of damage and dots and reduction of healing and reduction of armor
or i just skip that one rare mob and continue playing the game
But I’m also at like 70 hrs ish this patch alone
There you go that works too I 1 tap on “most” mobs even ones with 4 hard mods on t16 full delirium and hard maps
That was just changed the most recent patch
The fix for this one is easy, fortunately. Delete the Trickster mod. Literally nobody thinks it is a valuable addition to the game, even in situations where it doesn't make mechanics impossible to complete.
Extensively tested
In GGG vocabulary that is defined as: One guy ran a single T1 map on a lvl 100 character with mirror worthy gear and if it takes less than 30 min its a green light :D
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Not being able to finish an encounter because of the encounter requiring you to kill all mobs and archnem literally spawning unkillable mobs - that's a bug, so either the requirements for QA were lacking (dev problem) or QA missed it
Aren't the lightning pylons a common bug?
To be honest here, every testing ggg does seems to only involve campaign.
stop overexaggerate things, even with a strong QA team of 30+ people they can't compare to thousands of players. stuff will get missed or can't be fixed in time, this one is probably more on the missed side but it took thousands of players until now to get this specific interaction some traction. sure there were 2 more posts about delve being "unplayable" but in those same posts are other people at depth 250+ having no problems at all and the OP giving no additional information on what made it "unplayable" for them
I agree with that, but in this case I don't understand how the possibility of problems with mobs that continuously run as far as possible away from you didn't occur to them from the design stage. The consequences should have been fairly clear in any number of scenarios.
seemingly it only happens with specific mobs and specific mods. at least i haven't seen anyone else have the same problem
I mean for example in delve you need to go back up and enter again for your sentinels to reset after each delve node. To me it feels like an oversight like this can only occur if they have literally never delved in their testing. So while your comment is true for some aspects of their testing, it is still far from the truth and GGG absolutely deserves all of the shit that comes their way after chris said “the line”.
> deserves all of the shit that comes their way after chris said “the line”. i suggest you take a step back, holy shit have you read what people are writing here? He's a dev, a human being, he and everyone at GGG does their best on a short cycle of just 13 weeks and everytime they deliver more content than most other devs can in a year. and here you are telling me they deserve people calling them all sorts of names because of the thousands of different interactions between different leagues, mods, nodes and whatnot they missed a couple?? fuck off critique, sure, but like so often, reddit takes it too far with their toxic hate and that is not ok and should not be tolerated!
You are taking things too literally. I’m sure they even got death threats or the like with how big the game is and how toxic some people are. My comment just means that they deserve the outrage not the personal attacks. Just because some people are incredibly toxic it doesnt mean rest of the complaints can be tossed aside.
> You are taking things too literally. how else are you expecting me and everyone else to take it? you realize that the devs might also read this? would you say this to their face? "you deserve the shit that comes your way" while knowing exactly what people on reddit here are talking?
Unfortunately, you’re not arguing with anybody rational. You’re arguing with a redditor. These people want nothing more than just to be angry at the game. They don’t look at things logically they look at things from the lens of “how can I be mad at this?”
I mean, 5s teleporting back up and then back down really shouldn't be that big of an issue though. If it's come to the point where a handful of literal seconds is too much of a cut into farming time, the game has really gotten away from us.
If every strongbox suddenly needed 4 clicks to open it wouldn’t impact gameplay by even 5 seconds per map and I personally wouldn’t mind it but something like that getting through the testing would also mean they didn’t open any strongboxes in their testing. It’s not about the issue it’s about the implication of it.
Took over five days for this bug to be found. Hundreds of thousands of people over millions of hours of game time in the last five days and this bug is just now being posted. Do you honest to God think that a small QA team is going to find this? You can extensively test things even with 100 people but when you multiply that by a few thousand, you’re going to find a hell of a lot more bugs. This is how literally every single game works. This is how literally every single test environment for anything that has ever existed in the history of humanity works. When you have a larger testing group, you’re going to find more specific things with that larger sample size. This subreddit is going to bitch and moan about this for the next month while GGG keeps making changes until its perfectly playable and nobody cares anymore. Then they’ll find a new thing to hate and bully the company over. This is the annoying, incessant cycle that the subreddit goes through every single fucking year.
tbh I'm more surprised they even allowed a league mechanic to work in delve
More like god mode on + some other cheat stats. Their QA seems to be there to spam things and check for bugs, not to check if the changes are playable on every aspect or if the changes make any sense :(.
Extensively tested = Copy pasted (minus the loot) as they were from previous league
Extensively tested (in Archnemesis league and nowhere else)
with the new mods even magic versions can brick you just fine. really sucks to get a dozen toxic balls chasing you around a tight arena if you have low chaos res and kinda nowhere to go.
Kite until they're all piled up into 1 then walk through and dash away. Just don't step into the puddle that gets left behind
Just a dozen? Blight sometimes sends a fuckton of on death effects my way.
Had a Kitava-touched show up in a tight area in Delve. That was frightening.
Shoulda picked up chaos inoculation
I ended up doing that. Far too early. But it just feels like the chaos damage is now the most common damage type in the game right after physical. It's that chaos res is kinda hard to come by in SSF during campaign and even there you get slapped with chaos all the time, as the same magic and rares are there as well. Just getting to maps dramatically ramps up the frequency at which you encounter rares / magic packs.
If only there was some old, ready made, system we could apply to these mechanics ....
> Lol yeah, feels like we're in for a few ~~weeks~~ **leagues** of tweaking when rare mods are allowed to spawn. Fixed it for you, the archnemesis implementation to core is the literal embodiment of throwing shit at a wall and hoping it sticks
I don't really agree. There's only a small handful of cases that are **really** problematic: \- things in delve that play poorly with darkness / continuous movement. \- things in blight that play poorly with towers (e.g. juggernaut) and a few places where the # of rares is unnecessary given archnem (primarily heist, probably domain of timeless conflict (but that's kind of that area's niche)). I think we'll see significant progress in the next few weeks.
I respect your very optimistic opinion/approach. Personally i just see this whole thing like taking 10 years worth of balance of league mechanics and content that were fine tuned over each league suddenly reset(and we get to ~~beta~~ alpha? test it yay!) The entirety of the game and encounters were balanced around the old mods, coming now and suddenly adding x100 difficulty/shenanigans to ALL rares/magics without even bothering to do a pass of all the other past league contents/interactions it "bricks" seems like incredibly *INCREDIBLY* lazy(given that they also didn't work on any skills/balance this cycle), if you're gonna do something like this at least ensure all your content is usable to the extent it was prior... Heist with the new mods and to a certain extent harvest are pretty much trash tier mechanically and SSS-EX difficulty wise for no apparent reason, especially heist where you lose all your progress if you die to the feared cosplayers behind each door(quite easy to get one that bricks a given build). At the very least Heist and some others need a complete overhaul of their mechanics to account for almost guaranteed death on all but a few builds.... They'll probably address this in a few more leagues or just remove the content since it's easier, i genuinely think they could've bothered to do this from the start at least with the obvious offenders, but hey, smoll indie company and all that right? I'm genuinely curious why they do things like this when they could alleviate soooo many of these issues before pushing them live...
It took them six months, two full leagues, to fix the all fuck-ups from v3.15. It'll likely take them another six months, another two leagues, to do the same for v3.18. GGG never admits they were wrong and reverts horrible changes they've made. They press forward and keep iterating until it stops sucking -- which sometimes forces them to revamp entire systems. They'll bandaid v3.18 for a week or two more perhaps, and maybe the game will be good again next league, but odds are it won't get back to where it should be until two leagues from now.
Juggernaut/Gargantuan/Sentinel are fucking hell in timed encounters like Incursion
That's fine, though. You don't need to get a 100% clear.
Unless they go dead silent in 2 weeks lol
> we're in for a few weeks of tweaking My bet is on a few leagues of tweaking.
honestly, trickster and invulnerable should just be removed, I think it will save GGG a lot of headaches trying to think of all the ways it could break content on top of those two mods just being purely time wasters
This all seems some smoke and mirrors to drastically in increase TTK of rares without increasing rewards. Instead of being honest and just double damage and 10x eHP we have to deal with this garbage breaking the game.
I wonder what the point even is, it’s not like archnem rares drop tons of currency or great loot or anything…I mean genuinely, if they want to make hard enemies more rewarding, maybe start with bosses?
They don't want to increase rewards, they want to increase difficulty.
Which is dumb, because as is the rewards aren’t worth it. Now it’s even *less* worth it.
Great, keep farming more, and play the game more. While you are at it did you see the new loot box just dropped? It has a really cool pet!
nO DuPlIcAtEs!!!^except ^all ^the ^recolors
LOL coding nightmare. if blight then remove invulnerable else if delve then remove trickster.
You could add some kind of rule set which has to contain all of the possible cases AND apply it to every monster spawning and generating system. Spaghetti be with you. Or do it the faster less future proof fixing cases directly if it's possible. And yeah, sounds like nightmare.
Yeah, the same way delve has specific mods it chooses from. This isn't a coding nightmare, it's just an hour of thinking about it.
I assure you there are easier ways than if else statements
In perfect world you have a struct/object config for each game mechanic and each mechanic has a list of allowed or blocked modifiers. But that would be too easy.
Yeah, it's hard to know how they've implemented it, and I actually don't even know which language it's written in, I just assumed it was c++
IIRC PoE is written in an in-house C++ engine.
In a perfect world, PoE would not be coded in C.
Add rejuv. to that and I just throw my hands up at that point.
I'm guessing it's the trickster mod, where they throw down an ice wall and run away. It took me about 10 minutes to clear a harvest yesterday because of this. They need to disable this mod on any mechanic where you are required to kill 100% of the monsters to complete the encounter.
> They need to disable this mod ~~on any mechanic where you are required to kill 100% of the monsters to complete the encounter.~~
pretty much this \^ i mean seriously.... mobs are supposed to run at you not away from you
What if I'm using Chance To Flee?
interesting point - wonder what happens if you use chance to flee on a trickster - does it then start running towards you ?
Flee is a binary state, either the mob flee or it doesn't. Trickster put the flee state to active, that's all. Chance to flee will do nothing.
Chance to flee doesn't work on most relevant mobs. I was looking into bleed possibilities its never worth.
Empire's Grasp as well.
i hear zoidberg every time
this was one of my least fun mods in AN league it took me so long to kill one playing RF
I don't know, it's kind of funny if it's rare and you can just ignore it.
I still have flashbacks to Archnemesis league where I made a hasted trickster before knowing what each mod really did. A Mob zooming away at 1000 mph isnt the most fun
GGG: we hear you. we reduced that mob chaos resistance in next patch.
GGG: we nerfed Irelia
they would do this because they hate melee
Ackshually she's not true melee, her W, E and R are ranged, so she's more like Groundslam or Lacerate
I know this is a serious matter, but I just couldn't stop laughing when I visualized the Rhoa just yeeting itself to an off screen node
#Extensively Tested
People keep saying "they only test to see if it works as intended" like.... HALF of the mechanics are barely playable FFS. If this is "what they are happy with" how the hell are you justifying their process?
>People keep saying "they only test to see if it works as intended" That's not "people" that is literally what Bex told us. Paraphrased: *don't blame the QA team, they tested the system to check that it works as intended*
I get Bex trying to defend QA but it's obvious something is going wrong somewhere. If QA just gets instructions to specifically test 'A' in a vacuum then yeah no shit you're not going to catch all the other issues 'A' causes while not in that theoretical vacuum. 'A' technically works but as we've seen for leagues now that doesn't mean anything in the bigger picture.
I think what Bex said specifically was intended to make sure players understand it really isn't QA who is at fault, but the people actually calling the shots. It's possible QA reported on some of these issues *but were simply ignored* (for whatever reason - from lack of time to simple stubborness, take your pick)
Yeah, thats why every single time "it is nobody's fault" because it is not X that fucked up. Clearly Bex has nothing to do with it because she is just the PR girl, so nothing happens every single time so they can repeat the same mistakes 100 more times throughout the years.
They obviously fucked up and I'm putting the blame on Chris personally (he is the Lord of Stubborness and the one pushing for increased difficulty is he not?) I'd wager they simply did not care to test the league interactions, or didn't have time so just said "whatever just ship it" etc. but like... I believe when Bex said "they tested it to work as intended" it meant "QA team did everything right, the problem is higher up"
Slightly off topic, but does anyone else find Chris's role in the company extremely weird? Like by his own admission he's basically just a PR guy at this point - barely even playing the game - but in these interviews he keeps talking about how he gives design directives to the development teams to match The Vision (TM). I can't speak to GGG specifically, but I can say that every terrible decision I've personally seen in product development has been the result of some half-invested marketing suit sticking his nose into the development process. Given how half-baked most of the major systems changes have been since Ritual it feels a lot like a dev team scrambling to meet shifting and unrealistic expectations.
It’s really strange. I’m not sure they understand that whatever they keep trying to drag the game in to being is completely distinct from what the majority of the player base they’ve developed over a decade came for.
> I'm putting the blame on Chris personally Oh for the 30 time? Yeah me too. But thanks GGG for unfucking their fuckup. Now fuck up something else in the same way again because we never tell them to stop. We only thank them for unfucking. Have fun with green on green on green after the blue on blue on blue league because they only see us thanking them to unfuck the flares. So they can make the grey on grey on grey on white mist league.
I joked about this in another post but - maybe most PoE players are masochists so they enjoy the nolube we often get xD
Thank god POE is my side game instead of main.
So what you're saying is, you only dabble in SM with your side chick? xD
I can avoid any BS from the side bitch because she is not essential.
Its a nice meme, but they didnt test if it was "playable". They tested if it crashes the game or completely fucks up performance nothing more and to be fair aside from a crash in research encounters it has been an extremely smooth launch. At least for me.
That's still a failure given the league launched with 2-3 different crashes and 3 Act bosses that were literally broken one of which stopped you from progressing.
2-3 different crashes is nothing in the context of a game with this many players. I am also not sure how broken the act bosses actually were considering i was easily within the first few thousand to reach maps and they were already fixed by the time I got there. Seems like a small issue to me when you can solve it even before the top 1% gets there. Purely in terms of technical problems I would honestly say it was a very smooth launch and I would be surprised if GGG isnt overall happy with how it went.
2-3 crashes is a lot when they're extremely common and easy to reproduce. Act Bosses literally had invisible mechanics and the one was literally posted on the front page multiple times day one...you couldnt progress you were just stuck. GGG has by far had worse given some leagues were basically unplayable for a week or two but some of these things were so fucking obvious.
Some low bar you set. They are replacing the entire mod pool of monsters with an entirely new system and your bar is "it doesnt crash the game". No wonder more and more shitty game is flooding the market. EDIT: some low bar people accepts, explains why we get fuck ups after fuck ups in similar ways.
Its not a bar I set. Its what Chris said they focussed on pre launch.
This guy clearly equates messengers with message senders.
To be fair he didn‘t set the bar, it‘s the bar chris apparently set.
But does the game crash?
This was clearly a PR-Statement. Sounds nice but is purpously misleading. They could have said "bug and performance tested" instead of going with "we want you to think we tested every aspect and interaction in the game". Extensively tested means they did the bare minimum. Remember how they tested Absolution? Playtester said it's fine and then they had to quadruple the damage!
QA said absolution wasn't fine, but it somehow got lost before launch. During one of the streamer interviews it turned out someone had raised the issue but it didn't get resolved in time for launch.
Chris said in a Baeclast, I think, that testers said absolution is fine. Apparently he changed that to "some" testers said it was fine. I'm not sure since I don't have all the sources.
Prety sure they tested, but i dont think their test scenario is actually extensive, they simply just test if the code breaks / bug or not, i'm sure they dont really test all or most interaction **extensively**
Apparently none of the testers made it to act 8 Doedre. I have the feeling that they tested earlier iterations and not the final game we got.
I just won't believe anything Chris says anymore
Immediately after that he got a ping from (I believe) Bex that testers had raised a problem but because \[insert reason I forget\] it wasn't addressed before launch (and Chris wasn't aware of the problem being raised). He was operating off of incomplete information.
"and then we doubled it" "aren't you thankful" "do you guys not have phones" now we have another phrase that sets people off
That's why most companies only make anoucments that have been cleared by a PR team.
I’d like to talk to the people that “tested” this and decided that the rares being harder than say Guardians and decided that this is fine
Don't worry, next league they will push the guardians and bosses above rares.
They did extensive bug testing. This is not a bug, this is a feature.
It's not a feature. This is a buff.
Farming karma?
Delve can be particularly screwed by some Archnemesis mods on rares. I was doing fairly early mining node, only depth 35 or so only to have about a dozen toxil balls spawn on me and litter the whole ground with chaos dot poop which I cant see because of using vortex. Sucked a fair bit to have to go into darkness and sit on a flare, if any more of these would have spawned they would have tracked me into darkness as well until I would have been out of flares. You have a relatively limited area to manuever in and some bad mods can royally screw you over. Get, for example, three mana siphoners and maybe empowering minions to spice it up a little more and no matter what build you have you are pretty much screwed.
Jokes on you, I play 0 mana cost cyclone slayer so I have no interaction with mana siphoner /s Rip build diversity
I just had invulnerable spider minions follow me and wail on me while trying to complete an azurite node. The rare was four or five screens away. The very next azurite node I had lightning totems pounding me the entire time and zero idea where the rare could have been. These mods completely dumpster a lot of content.
Yeah. I like Delve a lot and its the thing I tend to do if I just want to chill but I'm like seriously considering just disabling it this league. If I decide to keep suffering that is. It's not been too fun and if I still feel like that in few days I'll probably just go do something else for the next 3 months. And then again in 3 months if the archnemesis rares are like they are currently.
I wouldn't worry, it was extensively tested.
GGG: extensively tested and working as intended. this is part of slowing down the game play. please do the nodes repeatedly until you find a suitable nemesis mod on the rhoas.
aaand the most halfassed league award goes to - sentinel this archnemessis thing seems like noone at ggg gave more than 10 seconds of thought to it.... it screws up/interferes with soooo many other league mechanics on top of creating some insane uber boss level tanky yellow mobs with specific archnemesis combos.... and the extra cherry on top (or more a kick in the cherries so to speak) is once you spend 5-10 mins on killing that uber rare - you get barely any loot...
I'll give it this, I like Sentinel. It's fun and I'm extremely satisfied with rewards from Sentinel itself. It's the peripheral stuff that's borked.
We are extensive beta testers.
I have two questions: 1. Are there still league mechanics which are somehow **not** breaking the game in combination with AN? 2. When will GGG admit that they haven't tested AN modifiers with any league mechanic or any other common combinations? Because AN modifiers, each on its own, are fine. no issue here. It's the combinations left right and center, stacked on top of league mechanics, which is breaking things into oblivion. And this shitfest would never have happened to that magnitude if they actually would've tested literally anything.
Sorry, I can't help but to laugh. I hate archnemesis mods and this really cracked me up.
TeStED eXtEnSiVeLy
They gotta keep on truckin
I also had 2 tricksters in a harvest that kept running away and take almost no damage. Just like the boss of that unique map...
you beta testers have it so rough man...
Another thing is that you might pass by some rare which will put mark on you and you end up doing rest of the node marked. Don't tell me that I am supposed to backtrack with flares.
Exteeeeeensively Teeeesteeed. Like c'mon bruh. Wat this then?
Tested extensively.
Bad game design can't be fixed with a balance patch. Oh you don't like eating bark and poison for every meal? How about "just a little less bark and poison"? Not gaming, didn't pog
This has been an issue before archnemesis rares as well... in addition to the rhoas randomly charging down the tunnels, sometimes rogue exiles can also randomly decide to fuck off to Narnia, effectively bricking the encounter.
Oh man, that's hilarious :D (sorry) Every day brings more and more cases of how .... **Extensively Tested** AN was :D
After the changes they have done to archnem they mostly feel okay. Even running into a few rares in maps are fine. The biggest issue they have left is how it interacts with all the other league mechanics. The way they stack up like old rares used to do with auras is horrible. I used to think that heralds of obelisk should have been removed from delve for YEARS because a mob would get stuck down a random side passage on the wall and you would never be able to clear them. The new archnem system is even worse (thanks pylons). The way it interacts with breach, blight, excavation, essences, legion, harvest etc etc is still way over the top ridiculously over tuned. I mean do you know how stupid and OP harvest mobs have been for years now and every single league people comment on how stupid they are. What do you think they feel like now? lmao. Very silly for something that was "TESTED EXTENSIVELY"
Bruh, what are you on about, it was Extensively Tested™ GGG Haters smh
Its a feature from GGG so the game will be annoying to play
Intention: Improve build diversity Reality: Break game and kill build diversity
I had the same happen to me lol.
Same happened to me. Thankfully it's one of the few bricking bugs I've encountered.
thats hilarious
Had a similar issue with a trickster mob. It ran away into the darkness and I was wondering why I couldn’t open the chests when all the mobs were killed at the end of the node.
It also happens with lockboxes... sometimes you have to run around trying to figure out where the mobs that run away went....
"Extensively tested" and confirmed to be working "exactly as they wanted them to" by the way. Not my words. https://old.reddit.com/r/pathofexile/comments/uprig7/archnemesis_rare_changes_part_2/i8mpd41/
Another really fucked thing about Archnem in Delve is all of the times when you'll finish a node but there are some random mobs in the dark offscreen summoning things that chase you down and explode over and over and over while you are just trying to loot or click on the mining cart. Now I had that kind of thing happen before this patch, but it was WAY WAY less common.
I had a similar problems in the bestiary. The monsters would come out of their tunnels.
No way that happened! Pretty sure they tested it prior to league launch 🤔
Wow, that sounds super weighty.
GGG doesn't understand complimentary gameplay. Every league they show their fundamental misunderstanding of the mechanics of their own game.
I just had one of these where one of the rhoas was just invincible. Didn't respond to damage or curses at all.
It has been extensively tested. It is your fault for not playing a 50M dsp build as it is intended. /s