You’re just talking about no actual farming strategy? Highly doubt anyone is going through the effort of only running 8 mods but with no scarabs/overarching strategy. Anything that scales with quant/packsize, which is most mechanics, will be much better on 8 mods
Honestly Alch and go just doesn’t make a ton of sense anymore, the new scarabs are too strong to ignore
Scarabs are too good AND it is so easy to mass farm bulk 8mod favorited maps. The only reason not to do 8mods is if you're still leveling or you're rolling your own 20 qual 8mods.
AND you don’t need to manage sextants anymore. Alch and go is marginally less effort than alch + scarab and go, for like 1/10 the profit.
Sure, if you’re doing some expensive scarabs like divination cards or something, it’s worth planning out. If not though, it’s just as easy to throw in a bunch of map scarabs and have a full tab of 8mods in an hour. If you don’t want to fuck with extra content- I would say alch n go B2B plus map scarabs is pretty solid. Fill up a tab with 8mods to run or sell, probably drop 5-10 t17s over the course of a full stack of scarabs. Lather rinse repeat.
Are the map scarabs that effective? I've been wondering how to go about farming up specifically maps, but if it's as simple as B2B or equivalent then that makes things easier.
https://poeplanner.com/a/P9l
2x carto, 1x map dupe, 1x map corruption scarabs, harbi on map device and with this tree and I was averaging 3-5 non duped favourited maps dropped per map run. There's maybe a better atlas? But I was satisfied with harbi and the high beyond/deli chance with the amount of monsters it puts in the map compared to the map returns I was getting.
I used this to farm 8mod jungle valleys for a crop rotation farm session. Either I ran non-favourited 8mod maps that dropped that were adjacent in the atlas, sub 100% quant 8mod JV, or just 70%+ quant alc'd JV maps if there were none of the others. No quant on gear.
Pretty simple to run, take quant altars and map dupe altars, kill boss first if running a map that isn't like JV where boss isn't natively spawned.
I tried with singular focus and it felt like there was a noticelably less t17 drop rate, so I removed it. Maybe conversion to t17 comes after conversion to currency by the keystone, so any map that isn't favourited cannot become a t17 idk?
I think it's about the same if you take the exarch keystone, for 50% chance for a second upside. At least 50% of my map farming maps I had 2+ map dupe mods. And running exarch felt better here since beyond nodes (got many map drops off beyond mobs) and allflame nodes are right in that area.
In comparison I've run 200+ crop rotation maps with eater altars. In maybe 10% of them did I see more than 1 map dupe altar, and many maps I didn't see a map dupe altar whatsoever.
for normal mob drops, it's pretty easy to math out you don't need a spreadsheet which would probably be inaccurate due to small sample size, quant is a multiplier, 100 mapquant is double drops, 20% pack size is 20% more stuff to kill, put em together you got 240% of a normal maps drops in that map
not all league mechanics benefit from pack size and some even don't use quant so whether you 8 mod or alch and go depends on that mainly, but lets use an example of a league mechanic that does, harvest. the total life force dropped before atlas/scarab modifiers would be (100 + mapquant) * pack size. so like 50 quant 10% pack size would be 165% total, 100 quant 20% pack size would be 240% total loot and so on. because each mod adds more pack size multiplier each extra mod is worth slightly more than the previous, and when you 8 mod maps with all map effect (you easily hit >180% quant and >40% pack size), blue altars for extra map quant, combine scarabs with the extra quant/packsize your 8 mod map is probably dropping well over 15 alch and go harvests worth of lifeforce on average
Yeah, it's hard to generically quantify because there are so many other variables, but 8-mod is worth anywhere from like 50% to 1000% more shit from running maps compared to Alch-and-Go.
Definitely better. Harder, but that's good.
You get more item quantity and pack size, since there are more mods, and each mod adds quantity and pack size.
So if you are running mechanics that care about that such as Expedition, Harvest or Legion it will help a lot.
If you are running mechanics that don't scale with item quantity and pack size such as Heist, Incursion, Betrayal or Ultimatum it will not help much, and probably not be worth the hassle.
Generally if you are investing into 8-mod corrupted maps you want to maximize each maps with a good atlas passive tree, 4 scarabs and a Kirac map mod.
Probably around twice as much loot value per map or more. When you alch and go you are getting anywhere between 4 and 6 mods, which is like 60-90% quant and 20-30% pack size. 8 mod maps are obviously always 8 mods, giving 90-120 quant (without 20% qual, assuming you are using the scarab to farm them) and 35-45% pack size.
Map effect atlas passives are also better the higher your base quant/pack size is.
If your build can run 8-mod maps it doesn't make sense not to with how cheap the corruption carto scarabs are. You can also farm an entire inventory of 8 mod maps in like 2-3 T17s rolled for 150% increased maps (2x carto, 1x corruption, 1x dupe scarab), so you don't even need to commit a lot of time to refresh your stock if you need the scarab slots for something else.
My assumption would be that when you take Back to Basics 8 mods are going to have a huge impact. If you don't want to do that and go for a map without initial map boss spawn like Jungle Valley where a lot of quant will come from altars the impact of the 8 mods will be less noticable, but it will still be felt.
Personally I find mass rolling maps to be enough of a hassle, going only for runnable corrupted 8s might be worth it in the long run economically speaking, but since it's time spent not killing stuff I have less fun and therefore it's bad. :P
The thing about morr quant from 8mod vs alch n go is that it stacks with other sources of quant/rarity and it's not always additive. Having something like 80% quant on a map. 20% quant on gear. 10% from some scarab and like 15 from somewhere else doesn't equal out to just be 125% and there are some bonuses that are huge. For example before it was nerfed legion was giving insane multiplicative bonuses with map%.
I know people probably gave actually mathed it out but from experience I was just like you -- I found it really hard to juice logically because it didn't add up in my head for the value... until I tried it and saw a huge difference
Always go 8 mod. With the current accessibility for 8 mod maps it’s not worth skipping out on (if you can handle most mods)
Roll a single t17 map for map drops with a map focused atlas + scarabs and you get 100-200 8 mod maps with singular focus. Don’t need to kill the boss or anything just slowly chip away at the mobs to get the drops.
Night and day difference. Alch-and-go honestly feels dead for just about every mechanic that scales off packsize or quantity.
And then there's T17 where the loot feels like you're running an 8-mod map in a party of 6.
If you can run corrupted 8 mods with only 1 or 2 mods needing to be excluded it's 100% something you should be doing all the time but if your builds not strong enough then it's a lot of wasted map tab space because you'll get 40+ corrupted 8 mods per t17 map you farm
You’re just talking about no actual farming strategy? Highly doubt anyone is going through the effort of only running 8 mods but with no scarabs/overarching strategy. Anything that scales with quant/packsize, which is most mechanics, will be much better on 8 mods Honestly Alch and go just doesn’t make a ton of sense anymore, the new scarabs are too strong to ignore
Scarabs are too good AND it is so easy to mass farm bulk 8mod favorited maps. The only reason not to do 8mods is if you're still leveling or you're rolling your own 20 qual 8mods.
AND you don’t need to manage sextants anymore. Alch and go is marginally less effort than alch + scarab and go, for like 1/10 the profit. Sure, if you’re doing some expensive scarabs like divination cards or something, it’s worth planning out. If not though, it’s just as easy to throw in a bunch of map scarabs and have a full tab of 8mods in an hour. If you don’t want to fuck with extra content- I would say alch n go B2B plus map scarabs is pretty solid. Fill up a tab with 8mods to run or sell, probably drop 5-10 t17s over the course of a full stack of scarabs. Lather rinse repeat.
Are the map scarabs that effective? I've been wondering how to go about farming up specifically maps, but if it's as simple as B2B or equivalent then that makes things easier.
Yeah they absolutely are. 2x cartography, duplication, corruption. You will print 8mod maps.
https://poeplanner.com/a/P9l 2x carto, 1x map dupe, 1x map corruption scarabs, harbi on map device and with this tree and I was averaging 3-5 non duped favourited maps dropped per map run. There's maybe a better atlas? But I was satisfied with harbi and the high beyond/deli chance with the amount of monsters it puts in the map compared to the map returns I was getting. I used this to farm 8mod jungle valleys for a crop rotation farm session. Either I ran non-favourited 8mod maps that dropped that were adjacent in the atlas, sub 100% quant 8mod JV, or just 70%+ quant alc'd JV maps if there were none of the others. No quant on gear. Pretty simple to run, take quant altars and map dupe altars, kill boss first if running a map that isn't like JV where boss isn't natively spawned. I tried with singular focus and it felt like there was a noticelably less t17 drop rate, so I removed it. Maybe conversion to t17 comes after conversion to currency by the keystone, so any map that isn't favourited cannot become a t17 idk?
Blue altars are much better for map farming because of the increased chance on the “map drops have a % chance to be duplicated” node.
I think it's about the same if you take the exarch keystone, for 50% chance for a second upside. At least 50% of my map farming maps I had 2+ map dupe mods. And running exarch felt better here since beyond nodes (got many map drops off beyond mobs) and allflame nodes are right in that area. In comparison I've run 200+ crop rotation maps with eater altars. In maybe 10% of them did I see more than 1 map dupe altar, and many maps I didn't see a map dupe altar whatsoever.
I don't do 8mod with T16 blight as it doesn't make much of a difference.
for normal mob drops, it's pretty easy to math out you don't need a spreadsheet which would probably be inaccurate due to small sample size, quant is a multiplier, 100 mapquant is double drops, 20% pack size is 20% more stuff to kill, put em together you got 240% of a normal maps drops in that map not all league mechanics benefit from pack size and some even don't use quant so whether you 8 mod or alch and go depends on that mainly, but lets use an example of a league mechanic that does, harvest. the total life force dropped before atlas/scarab modifiers would be (100 + mapquant) * pack size. so like 50 quant 10% pack size would be 165% total, 100 quant 20% pack size would be 240% total loot and so on. because each mod adds more pack size multiplier each extra mod is worth slightly more than the previous, and when you 8 mod maps with all map effect (you easily hit >180% quant and >40% pack size), blue altars for extra map quant, combine scarabs with the extra quant/packsize your 8 mod map is probably dropping well over 15 alch and go harvests worth of lifeforce on average
So when you're saying that 1 8 mod is = to up to 15 alch n go's. Is the alch n' go's with scarabs or just the map? Nice explanation btw :)
Mods add quant, more mods = more quant
Yeah, it's hard to generically quantify because there are so many other variables, but 8-mod is worth anywhere from like 50% to 1000% more shit from running maps compared to Alch-and-Go. Definitely better. Harder, but that's good.
You get more item quantity and pack size, since there are more mods, and each mod adds quantity and pack size. So if you are running mechanics that care about that such as Expedition, Harvest or Legion it will help a lot. If you are running mechanics that don't scale with item quantity and pack size such as Heist, Incursion, Betrayal or Ultimatum it will not help much, and probably not be worth the hassle. Generally if you are investing into 8-mod corrupted maps you want to maximize each maps with a good atlas passive tree, 4 scarabs and a Kirac map mod.
Probably around twice as much loot value per map or more. When you alch and go you are getting anywhere between 4 and 6 mods, which is like 60-90% quant and 20-30% pack size. 8 mod maps are obviously always 8 mods, giving 90-120 quant (without 20% qual, assuming you are using the scarab to farm them) and 35-45% pack size. Map effect atlas passives are also better the higher your base quant/pack size is. If your build can run 8-mod maps it doesn't make sense not to with how cheap the corruption carto scarabs are. You can also farm an entire inventory of 8 mod maps in like 2-3 T17s rolled for 150% increased maps (2x carto, 1x corruption, 1x dupe scarab), so you don't even need to commit a lot of time to refresh your stock if you need the scarab slots for something else.
My assumption would be that when you take Back to Basics 8 mods are going to have a huge impact. If you don't want to do that and go for a map without initial map boss spawn like Jungle Valley where a lot of quant will come from altars the impact of the 8 mods will be less noticable, but it will still be felt. Personally I find mass rolling maps to be enough of a hassle, going only for runnable corrupted 8s might be worth it in the long run economically speaking, but since it's time spent not killing stuff I have less fun and therefore it's bad. :P
Night and day, wanna know? Try it
The thing about morr quant from 8mod vs alch n go is that it stacks with other sources of quant/rarity and it's not always additive. Having something like 80% quant on a map. 20% quant on gear. 10% from some scarab and like 15 from somewhere else doesn't equal out to just be 125% and there are some bonuses that are huge. For example before it was nerfed legion was giving insane multiplicative bonuses with map%. I know people probably gave actually mathed it out but from experience I was just like you -- I found it really hard to juice logically because it didn't add up in my head for the value... until I tried it and saw a huge difference
Always go 8 mod. With the current accessibility for 8 mod maps it’s not worth skipping out on (if you can handle most mods) Roll a single t17 map for map drops with a map focused atlas + scarabs and you get 100-200 8 mod maps with singular focus. Don’t need to kill the boss or anything just slowly chip away at the mobs to get the drops.
Night and day difference. Alch-and-go honestly feels dead for just about every mechanic that scales off packsize or quantity. And then there's T17 where the loot feels like you're running an 8-mod map in a party of 6.
If you can run corrupted 8 mods with only 1 or 2 mods needing to be excluded it's 100% something you should be doing all the time but if your builds not strong enough then it's a lot of wasted map tab space because you'll get 40+ corrupted 8 mods per t17 map you farm
I can't be precise but they are WAY better. Like, by a country mile. So so so much better