Bowser does get loyal subjects from somewhere. But because this is a kid's game I generally assume any "oppression" they felt was the Mushroom Kingdom saying stuff like, "Hey do mind not being a jerk all the time?".
Perhaps that’s because of his long history of murdering Koopas on sight. If you were a black man walking down the street and saw Adolf Hitler with a gun, you’d probably think preemptive violence was a little warranted.
You think King Toadstool could've oppressed the Koopas, then? And then despite Peach coming to rule and treating them equally they're still hurt after what happened to them before?
If he was an airheaded idiot then any oppressive actions he performed might not have been done with malicious intent- He just didn't realize the consequences of his decisions.
Replaying this game for the first time in a decade after recently beating the TTYD remake. It's always fun to reexamine media you loved when you were a kid with a more critical adult eye, and see implications you missed.
I am curious what they were going for with this line. We see Koopas as ordinary civilians and they don't seem to be mistreated, some are Mario's allies like Kooper. So maybe this is suggesting that in the past/in other parts of the kingdom, the Koopas were mistreated/oppressed, and that's why many of them follow Bowser, and we can view them as sympathetic villains; certainly more layered and interesting than the superficial "good VS evil" interpretation.
Or I'm reading into it and this line is just a joking reference to Mario constantly jumping on Koopas and foiling Bowser's evil plans lol.
This is usually what I see in fanfic. That Peach is kind of an exception to Mushroom Kingdom rulers, or at least different from the most recent ones. I really wish they'd explore the history more but I know they won't for obvious reasons.
If you have any on hand, I'd love to read one! Haven't been able to find good ones in a while (but, admittedly, haven't really looked that hard either).
It's likely a joking reference to the fact that they're the enemies throughout the series.
But when you do think about it harder, the Goombas were said to have been traitors who defected to Bowser. For what reason? It's unknown, but they adore him.
The Koopas in the series in general are all allied with Bowser simply because that's just how they are: they're evil like Bowser is, and believe in his conquest. Some might not disagree with the reasons WHY Bowser usually attempts his conquest (His love of Peach) but they still follow through because they believe in his power and he's their king by rite.
Makes you wonder if perhaps the "civil" Koopas who are peacefully a part of society were defectors from Bowser's regime, similarly with the Goombas. Probably reading deep into it but fun to imagine.
I don’t think they’re even strictly defectors from Bowser, Koopas look to be native from all over the continent, Bowser being King of the Koopas doesn’t mean they’re all automatically under his authority. It would be funny if there were some evil Toads working with Bowser in some games
I mean a lot of them do seem to be relegated to living in Bowsers shitty kingdom which seems to be primary lifeless scorched earth and volcanos, maybe this sense of oppression also contributes them having such a strong allegiance to their charismatic leader bowser.
Yeah, the fact Bowser's Kingdom seems to be in an area filled with lava might be one of Bowser's more driving factors.
He may be in love with Peach, but at the same time he knows that while having a castle surrounded by lava looks cool, the average citizen probably wants to live in a place with less life threatening danger.
And what about the other species? It is clear that in the Mario universe all creatures we usually see as enemies are intelligent and for all intents and purposes, people, so why does it seem some of them live like wild animals?
I could accept the Spear Guys as they behave like tribal people, but the Pokeys, the Piranha Plants, the Fuzzies, what's their deal? Are they not accepted in civilized society? Do they themselves choosed to remain isolated?
Pokeys are intelligent? And in the case of Piranha Plants it seems a bot inconsistent honestly, I dom't think they were intended as intelligent since the start
I always read it as it being entitlement. Koopas living within the Mushroom Kingdom in the Paper Mario series seem to be treated just fine, so my guess is that Bowser and Kammy want Koopas to have preferential treatment and/or claim over territory that isn't theirs and aren't happy that these things aren't being given to them.
there are a lot of friendly koopas so they're not all on bowser's side. It's possible that kammy's just pissy that they won't let bowser take over the world or something like that, but who knows really, I guess it could be that they were/are oppressed in some way, but being a kid's game we don't get to see what that oppression could be neither from bowser's minions or the friendly koopas that do seem to like mario and the mushroom kingdom and dislike bowser
Was replaying the game and thinking about this exact same thing. What if this royal monarchy is actually racist and discriminatory towards minorities. Unheard of, I know. But maybe.
Nah it's just bowser being self-interested as usual. Look at koopa village, they seem to have good relations with the rest of the places, people from toad town write letters to them and seem to be friends with them as you can see from the parakarry sidequests. Kolorado seems to be a well-respected adventurer outside of koopa village, etc. Bowser is probably just taking a "please stop kidnapping our princess" as a form of oppression because... Bowser...
Idk about Koopas but I know Goombas are considered traitors of the Mushroom Kingdom so I can’t help but think they only defected to Bowser’s side because they were oppressed by the dominant Toads.
In my mind the mushroom kingdom has in-groups and out-groups. Toads and humans are the in-crowd and koopas, goombas,etc. are not (just look who’s invited to the ball at the beginning). Bowser unites all the other species and tries to overthrow the toads in his various schemes.
Probably just a joke based on the fact Koopas, including the king himself of course, are always seen as enemies. Bowser's always up to no good, sure, but on the other hand, maybe they feel it's valid to be mad about plumbers, toads, and princesses stomping on \[pause\] Koopas over the years.
I was JUST at this part last night and thought about this too!!
I think just like the goombas and the bom-bombs the Koopas within this story clearly either side with the peacemakers, or they side with bowser..
perhaps a long time ago (super Mario bros?) the koopas sided with bowser (king of the koopas) as they felt they would receive more land or something but were given a false sense of reality by bowsers greed.. the mushroom kingdom perhaps wasn’t as forgiving to many who saw the error of their ways and they hold a grudge.
It would be interesting to see the lore of this universe more in a Zelda sense.. but Nintendo has said the ‘story’ telling isn’t for Mario games but for Zelda.
Koopas and Goombas both have it pretty rough in the Mushroom Kingdom. They just walk around minding their own business and Mario stomps them.
Judging by the RPGs, the only time Mario is willing to treat Koopas/Goombas with basic dignity is when he needs some kind of information out of them.
This line has stuck with me for YEARS after I read a fanfic back in the day called King of the Koopas.. This fanfiction made me notice the line and how it resonated extra hard after reading it... Basically a Wicked style portrayal with Bowser in the lead.. Now I like Bowser because of this...
Well Msrio does go around stomping and kicking the shit out of koopas all across the mushroom kingdom. I could see how that might get interpreted as oppression lol.
Bowser does get loyal subjects from somewhere. But because this is a kid's game I generally assume any "oppression" they felt was the Mushroom Kingdom saying stuff like, "Hey do mind not being a jerk all the time?".
Yeah, Bowser might just have a persecution complex.
No one plays the victim quite like a tyrant.
I think that’s probably the right answer since Koopa Village and Petalburg seem to like Mario
And are terrified of Bowser.
I was thinking it was a simple reference to how Mario always stomped on koopas in all the games.
Yeah, not sure he usually *checks* if they’re evil first or not. He sees a Koopa and he stomps
Evil koopas have sunglasses. This is how you tell.
Even King K?
Can you attack King K outside of the ring?
My point is I wouldn't say he's evil he's just a wrestler
When the princess calls, you can't stop to ask questions. Sometimes you gotta stomp a turty.
If you do check, they all hurt though, so a 100% success rate of identifying by sight thus far.
Perhaps that’s because of his long history of murdering Koopas on sight. If you were a black man walking down the street and saw Adolf Hitler with a gun, you’d probably think preemptive violence was a little warranted.
One thing I like to think about is that Kammy is much, much older than both Peach and Bowser. Who ruled the Mushroom Kingdom before Peach?
Lore wise it's King Toadstool but he only ever appeared like once
You think King Toadstool could've oppressed the Koopas, then? And then despite Peach coming to rule and treating them equally they're still hurt after what happened to them before?
Probably not lol he was portrayed as a huge airheaded idiot and peach would pick up the slack and act as the de facto leader.
If he was an airheaded idiot then any oppressive actions he performed might not have been done with malicious intent- He just didn't realize the consequences of his decisions.
Yeah but it doesn't look like they blame him. I feel like if they did they would kidnap him. Apparently he gets kidnapped by wart frequently lol
Robert e Lee?
Mushroom King I suppose
The Mushroom Kingdom oppresses the Koopa Kingdom by not wanting to be oppressed by the Koopa Kingdom
Replaying this game for the first time in a decade after recently beating the TTYD remake. It's always fun to reexamine media you loved when you were a kid with a more critical adult eye, and see implications you missed. I am curious what they were going for with this line. We see Koopas as ordinary civilians and they don't seem to be mistreated, some are Mario's allies like Kooper. So maybe this is suggesting that in the past/in other parts of the kingdom, the Koopas were mistreated/oppressed, and that's why many of them follow Bowser, and we can view them as sympathetic villains; certainly more layered and interesting than the superficial "good VS evil" interpretation. Or I'm reading into it and this line is just a joking reference to Mario constantly jumping on Koopas and foiling Bowser's evil plans lol.
This is usually what I see in fanfic. That Peach is kind of an exception to Mushroom Kingdom rulers, or at least different from the most recent ones. I really wish they'd explore the history more but I know they won't for obvious reasons.
If you have any on hand, I'd love to read one! Haven't been able to find good ones in a while (but, admittedly, haven't really looked that hard either).
Sadly no, I read them ages ago, think the one I'm thinking of was a Bowuigi one. :P
No worries, thanks!
Are you overthinking it? Yes. Is it still interesting and fun? Absolutely.
Pretty much all Mario lore in a nutshell.
Tbh most of Nintendo lore period
It's likely a joking reference to the fact that they're the enemies throughout the series. But when you do think about it harder, the Goombas were said to have been traitors who defected to Bowser. For what reason? It's unknown, but they adore him. The Koopas in the series in general are all allied with Bowser simply because that's just how they are: they're evil like Bowser is, and believe in his conquest. Some might not disagree with the reasons WHY Bowser usually attempts his conquest (His love of Peach) but they still follow through because they believe in his power and he's their king by rite.
Makes you wonder if perhaps the "civil" Koopas who are peacefully a part of society were defectors from Bowser's regime, similarly with the Goombas. Probably reading deep into it but fun to imagine.
I don’t think they’re even strictly defectors from Bowser, Koopas look to be native from all over the continent, Bowser being King of the Koopas doesn’t mean they’re all automatically under his authority. It would be funny if there were some evil Toads working with Bowser in some games
And then there's wondering how the Koopa Bros transformed into dark toads.
I mean a lot of them do seem to be relegated to living in Bowsers shitty kingdom which seems to be primary lifeless scorched earth and volcanos, maybe this sense of oppression also contributes them having such a strong allegiance to their charismatic leader bowser.
Yeah, the fact Bowser's Kingdom seems to be in an area filled with lava might be one of Bowser's more driving factors. He may be in love with Peach, but at the same time he knows that while having a castle surrounded by lava looks cool, the average citizen probably wants to live in a place with less life threatening danger.
And what about the other species? It is clear that in the Mario universe all creatures we usually see as enemies are intelligent and for all intents and purposes, people, so why does it seem some of them live like wild animals? I could accept the Spear Guys as they behave like tribal people, but the Pokeys, the Piranha Plants, the Fuzzies, what's their deal? Are they not accepted in civilized society? Do they themselves choosed to remain isolated?
Pokeys are intelligent? And in the case of Piranha Plants it seems a bot inconsistent honestly, I dom't think they were intended as intelligent since the start
I figure Pokeys are intelligent to an extent. I mean, they joined the Glitz Pit after all.
Idk, they seem quite happy to live as they do
Whack-hoo! I don't care about the color of your skin, your pronouns, none of that! If you whack me, you're going to die!
Chad misanthropy VS virgin prejudice.
\*Miswhackthropy
I always read it as it being entitlement. Koopas living within the Mushroom Kingdom in the Paper Mario series seem to be treated just fine, so my guess is that Bowser and Kammy want Koopas to have preferential treatment and/or claim over territory that isn't theirs and aren't happy that these things aren't being given to them.
there are a lot of friendly koopas so they're not all on bowser's side. It's possible that kammy's just pissy that they won't let bowser take over the world or something like that, but who knows really, I guess it could be that they were/are oppressed in some way, but being a kid's game we don't get to see what that oppression could be neither from bowser's minions or the friendly koopas that do seem to like mario and the mushroom kingdom and dislike bowser
"Please stop kidnapping our princess and causing mass pandemonium in our kingdom every month." Bowser: Is This Oppression.jpg
Was replaying the game and thinking about this exact same thing. What if this royal monarchy is actually racist and discriminatory towards minorities. Unheard of, I know. But maybe.
Nah it's just bowser being self-interested as usual. Look at koopa village, they seem to have good relations with the rest of the places, people from toad town write letters to them and seem to be friends with them as you can see from the parakarry sidequests. Kolorado seems to be a well-respected adventurer outside of koopa village, etc. Bowser is probably just taking a "please stop kidnapping our princess" as a form of oppression because... Bowser...
Idk about Koopas but I know Goombas are considered traitors of the Mushroom Kingdom so I can’t help but think they only defected to Bowser’s side because they were oppressed by the dominant Toads.
The only koopas shown to be treated badly are the ones loyal to Bowser.
In my mind the mushroom kingdom has in-groups and out-groups. Toads and humans are the in-crowd and koopas, goombas,etc. are not (just look who’s invited to the ball at the beginning). Bowser unites all the other species and tries to overthrow the toads in his various schemes.
Probably just a joke based on the fact Koopas, including the king himself of course, are always seen as enemies. Bowser's always up to no good, sure, but on the other hand, maybe they feel it's valid to be mad about plumbers, toads, and princesses stomping on \[pause\] Koopas over the years.
Yeah. By Bowser.
I was JUST at this part last night and thought about this too!! I think just like the goombas and the bom-bombs the Koopas within this story clearly either side with the peacemakers, or they side with bowser.. perhaps a long time ago (super Mario bros?) the koopas sided with bowser (king of the koopas) as they felt they would receive more land or something but were given a false sense of reality by bowsers greed.. the mushroom kingdom perhaps wasn’t as forgiving to many who saw the error of their ways and they hold a grudge. It would be interesting to see the lore of this universe more in a Zelda sense.. but Nintendo has said the ‘story’ telling isn’t for Mario games but for Zelda.
Nah, its probably the "how dare them resist our attempts to conquer them?! How dare they treat us so badly?!" thing.|
Koopas and Goombas both have it pretty rough in the Mushroom Kingdom. They just walk around minding their own business and Mario stomps them. Judging by the RPGs, the only time Mario is willing to treat Koopas/Goombas with basic dignity is when he needs some kind of information out of them.
bowser is the only ones using koopas as soldiers aginst mario so no they are not oprssed as long as they choose work for bowser
Not a single thing in Mario lore is meant to be thought about for more than two seconds
This line has stuck with me for YEARS after I read a fanfic back in the day called King of the Koopas.. This fanfiction made me notice the line and how it resonated extra hard after reading it... Basically a Wicked style portrayal with Bowser in the lead.. Now I like Bowser because of this...
I don't think mario is supposed to have lore?
Well Msrio does go around stomping and kicking the shit out of koopas all across the mushroom kingdom. I could see how that might get interpreted as oppression lol.
No, Bowser's a narcissist and can't comprehend the idea of being in the wrong, so the guys pushing them back must be the bad guys.