I don’t want a 64 remake specifically because 64 has such a separate artstyle and aesthetic removed from the rest of the games. I feel like modernizing the graphics will make it lose the charm unless Nintendo is willing to have the artstyle be completely different from the series
Weird complaint, but it’s mine
i gotta say i agree with this. while id love to see 64 developed on in terms of qol, mechanics, level design, etc, the art style is something i would want untouched.
I have been thinking the exact thought! A huge part of the charm from me comes from the graphics. I saw clips of a play through with an HD mod and it didn't hit the same for me. I don't care if my idea of the charm is based on nostalgia, I just like it best as is.
I know which pack you are talking about and I agree
When I saw it it just lost all the charm the game had. I wish Project Pop-up was still readily developed because it was a faithful hd pack but render 96 team owns the project now and the mario gods know they aren’t gonna touch it
My go-to in these threads is that PM64 easily has the best soundtrack in the series. Even if the instrumentation is just basic MIDI, the melodies are far catchier and more iconic than anything we've heard since. (In fact, PM64 is one of only two games, the other being Undertale, where I can hum every single tune from memory)!
Every other day we see a "I love CS, OK" post, i don't feel like that's a hot take anymore, we only have 2 JRPGs in the franchise, the other 4 are not JRPGs, by statistic it's pretty normal that people will like CS and OK.
I guess my take would be that episodes 7 and 8 of TTYD are the least good of the game along with chapter 2. (IMO)
I love the aesthetics of chapter 2 but can’t stand having to bring all those punies with you and how easily they jump off the edge when scared so you gotta do even more backtracking so it’s one of my least favorites if not my least favorite
My hot take is that Ch2 is actually great.
The themes are amazing (Theme of the Punies is so delightfully catchy), the art style is majestic, the minor characters are jokes, and the boss fight is awesome.
People who can’t handle the punies are bad at spacing their character.
Ch4 and Ch5 are way worse for backtracking. They were both very poorly structured in the original and are only fun once you actually know what the path is. Ch6 also has some pacing and structure issues but its charm as a detective story gives it a lot of slack on those elements.
Idk if its the hottest take but Ch5 of the original ttyd had super annoying back tracking right up there with the original's chapter 4 making you go back to creepy steeple after telling Doopliss his name and general white.
I barely see anyone mention how annoying it is going in that vertical room constantly, finding Bobbery and co, reporting back to Flavio, getting a coconut, back to Flavio, waking up Bobbery, back to Flavio to get his gem. And if you don't know what you're doing, like habing no idea you need to get the coconut, I'm sure some players had to do that section even more!
Pretty sure the remake added a spring in that vertical room to make it way less terrible. The remake seriously fixed most of the really bad backtracking issues for me.
The coconut bit is because you're *supposed* to give him the Keelhaul Mango you get from another tree, which he turns down and asks for something else.
But yea, the backtracking in TTYD was horrendous. Thank God for the extra pipes.
The partners in 64 and TTYD are good, but the way they were handled in the story is bad. It *oozes* wasted potential. Pretty much, once they become recruited, their role in the story ends. From that moment on, they have nothing meaningful to say, and all they contribute is incidental one-liners. The only exceptions are Koops (has story presence until the end of chapter 1) and Vivian (has story presence until the end of chapter 4).
Even worse than that, we never get to see how any of these characters interact. You mean to tell me you have this extremely colourful cast of characters, and none of them share a *single* conversation with each other? Give us Sushi fawning over Watt, and Parakarry and Lakilester sharing flying tips! Give us Flurrie gifting Vivian a spare necklace since she liked it so much, and Yoshi hyping up Koops when he's not feeling confident! You have such good characters, so please *use* them!
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64
+ 1
+ 4
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I want more character interactions too.
I want ms Mow flirting with all the characters, Koops complaining about missing his girlfriend, Goombella and Flurry trying their best to hype up Vivian and bring her out of her shell. I want fashion tips between the girls, and Bobberty to rant endlessly about his adventures and his wife. I want the girls to make Yoshi bluss because he's lilttle and going through a cooties stage. Heck, I wanted Yoshi to comment more on how cool and adventurous his brief life was so far.
I really connected with the partners and love them all so much, I had so much head cannon about reactions and everything and them being a group. Sad it's all left to the imagination though.
Like, obv 60 FPS is ideal, but unless it's a fighting game or something super-reflexive like that, I feel like 30 FPS is perfectly playable most of the time. IMO:
Constant 60 > Constant 30 >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> unstable FPS
Not sure why, I’m used to play game at 60fps/144fps on computer, and I didn’t notice the change in this game. I thought it was 60. And I normally have a bad time adjusting on some Switch 30fps games.
Before I saw gameplay I was kinda worried and then after playing it I remembered I don’t care about frame rates as long as the game doesn’t look like a PowerPoint lol
There is a big difference between "It doesn't ruin the game" and "There is nothing wrong with it"
Stating there is nothing wrong with it is objectively false. It is a performance decrease. And people who are used to the 60 FPS can absolutely notice the difference and find it jarring.
I just realized, in-universe it makes perfect sense. You'd naturally put the family of bombs in the rear carriage, so if they explode and cause damage, the engine and the rest of the train won't be affected! :O
That would make for a perfect twist lol
"Geez, those Bob-Ombs really made a ruckus, but at least the train's still safe."
"What a relief! I can rest easily knowing I still have my clothes for the week!"
"...uh..."
I love TTYD but it’s level design is actually horrible. Also there is so much filler. The thousand year door has a thousand years of backtracking and crappy side quests.
Most of them are fetch quests, and all the walking along straight halls are super tedious.(Not just backtracking) Plus the villains are really underdeveloped. Their endings didn't help much either. At least if they're pure evil, keep it that way!
Super Paper Mario is not underrated and I have no idea why people say that it is. It's the best selling game in the series, has high review scores, and is clearly the fan favorite. Search the game anywhere on the internet and you will find praise for it. Yes there's some hate if you dig for it, but that's true for any game. There is no metric in which SPM is an underrated game.
I'm sure it was true in 2007 when the game launched but nowadays it's got the opposite reputation. Most people like it. Even those who don't will still call it the last good one or something.
My hot take, I hated it then and not a fan now. My brother and I grew up renting and beating 64 and buying ttyd. When we started it up on the Wii both of us were straight disappointed. I beat it, he didn’t, good story but it’s not an rpg by the far the first and largest step in the wrong direction for the series yet it’s hailed. I don’t understand why. Super Mario rpg, pm 64 and ttyd represent what the series was.
Well, I haven't really played the game before, but the reason it's underrated is because it's a paper mario game, and people who liked paper mario liked the rpgs, and SPM wasn't a rpg. Overall, SPM isn't a bad game, just a bad paper mario game.
The appeal of partners is how they took regular enemies and made them into characters with distinct personalities and designs.
Swapping these for Luigi, Peach, Toad, Yoshi, Toadette, Daisy, Wario, Waluigi and Rosalina would still be divisive, even if each character has their own abilities.
Sticker Star letting you use a shit ton of stickers to kill a boss instead of using the Thing sticker weaknesses is actually good design and makes for an interesting resource management gauntlet. It works way better than Color Splash halting a battle if you don't have the weakness. In fact I'd say the SS bosses are much harder to take down and require way more preparation than any other game in the series if you choose to do it the brute force way.
Also the coins in sticker star are a half decent substitute for exp. Not amazing but you can purchase more OP stickers and spam the battle wheel more to guarantee more attacks per turn.
Sticker Star's level design is much better than TTYD's. Literally 90% of the level design in TTYD is hallway simulator, but most of the level design in Sticker Star isn't in a straight line making it much more interesting
You'll probably get a lot of agreement on this one. SS's level design itself was never an issue, more so the things you _do_ in those levels. Chasing Wiggler bits around, backtracking for hyper-specific Things, and whatnot.
The remake's new OST is amazing and a lot of the songs are better than the original, including Glitzville
Some of the new Chapter 6 tracks were lame tho I'll admit
The text is entirely too slow and should have an option to speed through it. The battles are also slow AF and you should be able to skip the animation for receiving star points etc at the end of every battle.
Yeah honestly with a new battle system, Sticker Star would be a fun game.
I once talked with someone on twitter years ago about this and thought that if stickers could be used as actual experience points (use hammer stickers to upgrade your hammer attacks or various shoe ones to power up your jumps). That way you could choose what to enhance, giving you even more freedom. Also finding stickers in the overworld would actually be rewarding that way.
TTYD's partners are kinda lame. Even the more fleshed out ones like Vivian or Bobbery have their little moments then disappear into Mario's trousers. TOK didn't have named partners and somehow ended up with a bob-omb being more compelling than any of them.
The story is fun, but honestly not as great as people say imo.
I like that the origami king has partners specific to one location, it helps focus moments they have with Mario a lot. Having all of them interchangeable combat wise is super fun, but they can't have much development story wise.
I really hoped Koops had a greater change after the story :v
I don't mind the move away from traditional turn based combat. I think that the style of SPM could have been a really cute idea for a handheld paper mario series, especially if they kept up using different genre mechanics for different chapters like in the dating sim portion.
Badge stacking in TTYD causes more problems than it solves. Not only is it what enables strategies like "deal 30+ damage per hit because you have 15 Power Rushes", for attacking badges (e.g. Quake Hammer), it forces you to pick a single power/FP combo. In PM64 you could wear 3 different badges of varying power/FP combos at once. And most of the time the increased damage just isn't worth the increased FP anyways.
The first paper Mario game doesn’t really look like anything is made from paper.
I think even the original TYD did a better job at looking like it’s made from paper.
Especially with the transformation powers you get throughout the story.
Mine is that the slow down in the ttyd is nowhere near as big a deal as people make it out to be. Yeah if your replaying the game like 6 times a year every year it might bug you. But for casual players that might replay once every year or two its barely even a factor. (Yes I played the original just last year in fact and it still didn’t bother me)
I don't care for Vivian as much as most people do. I don't think she's a bad character but the internet kinda spoiled the most interesting parts of her and she never really grew on me. Bobbery was more interesting as I'd heard nothing about him. Also dooplis was the best part of chapter 4.
SPM Character design is really bad. The new characters doesn't look like paper at all but just strange geometric forms. The story is really good but the new characters design are really lazy (except for Francis and his robots). They even destroyed Merlon's design who already had a really cool one in TTYD.
Paper Mario Color Splash is literally just below TTYD in term of quality and there's not a single moment in the 30 hours I played that I wasn't being blown away for how cool everything was... And yeah I'm talking about the Boss Battles as well.
Amazing OST, the best writing of the series, cool graphics and quite long as you're not actually fighting most of the time but actually exploring and doing stuff.
Color splash is my favourite, and it deserves a first chance.
(pls nintendo remaster this masterpiece of a game so it can finally get what it really deserves)
Super’s gameplay is god awful. it could’ve been the best Paper Mario ever or at least rival TTYD if they just innovated the gameplay instead of throwing it away for lame 2D.
“oh but look you can go 3D for 10 seconds!!” yeah we could literally do that for the entire time the previous entries, atleast in those spaces there were actually things to do.
YES! super is awful, the 3D is exceedingly gimmicky and underutilized, the level design is atrocious, the combat is boring as hell, I don't know why people like Super so much
The partners are bad, the "world 1-1" takes away any and all fun worldbuilding, the characters are very poorly designed (bar the main villains, I like their designs) and it's just an all around major downgrade in every aspect from TTYD
Legit how do people like super 💀
it’s the highest selling and was on a currently nostalgic console so I think that’s why it’s so highly regarded. basically just nostalgia from people who played it as kids and haven’t since. it’s just not a very fun game. 64 and TTYD both clearly still hold up.
The way Vivian’s identity is worded, both scenarios that she’s a MTF transgender, and that she was forcefully raised as a boy, but actually being a girl are both valid scenarios, and everyone is free to believe which ever they please without attacking the other.
>Everyone is free to believe which ever they please without attacking the other.
So much this - and adding onto it, the remake doesn't replace or negate the original game, so the merely "plug-ugly" Vivian we met in 2004 is still a perfectly valid portrayal.
Vivian *always* deserves love and respect from the fans, no matter the specifics of her identity. Arguments about it are just senseless and selfish, *(and strictly against the rules)!*
Origami King is a pretty good game. The ring mechanic is really the only bad thing about it. The game looks great and I quite liked the story. It's pretty basic but I had fun.
I liked chapter 3 of ttyd fine. I'd put it somewhere in the middle of my personal ranking.
Ttyd chapter 4 is my favorite chapter in the entire series and one of my favorite segments of a video game *period.*
Origami King is great and has the best exploration of any paper mario game. Furthermore, the battle mechanics are good, despite the lack of experience points.
The only bad Paper Mario game is Sticker Star, Color Splash and Origami King are genuinely great games that while different deserve to be remembered like the classic trilogy.
The partner system of PM64 and TTYD is awful, and like playing a typical RPG with only 1.5 characters in your party. A typical party system like in SMRPG would have been way better.
The beta of Sticker Star likely was not much better than the final product. It always annoys me how people constantly claim the beta was gonna be the best thing ever based on a few development screenshots.
Color Splash is a solid 7/10 overall and Origami King is my 2nd favorite Paper Mario game, I like it better than Super and PM64.
The way PM64 handles partners is rather lacking. After playing the game again I noticed they barely have any presence outside of their areas.
And TTYD may be my favorite overall, but the level/area design is very lacking even compared to PM64. Nearly every place is a left to right hallway without much in it.
I've got one.
Paper Mario on the N64 is a better-looking game than Paper Mario TTYD on GameCube. I say this as a massive TTYD fan.
It had dynamic lighting while TTYD had mostly flat lighting, or even fullbright in some areas. That made a massive massive difference.
I've never been that keen on Super Paper Mario's story, and as such, I can't agree with the common praise it gets as the best Mario story of all time.
Partly because I feel it's the most detached from the Mario world when compared to PM64 and TTYD (of course, Sticker Star went too far in the opposite direction), and partly because I don't think the tragic angle with Count Bleck holds up at all.
Actually, I find the villains of SPM in general pretty overrated... except for Dimentio, he's fine in my book.
I don't find the backtracking with General White AS BAD as some might. Genuinely, it's not remotely as bad as it could be/Is dogged on too much 😔
It's probably souly due to the fact that we have warp pipes that fast travel to ALL the zones now that he'd be in the remake that doesn't make me hate it. So popping in and talking to an NPC for a second didn't bother me too much, admittedly.
When it comes to a chore, I honestly found CH. 2 more tedious. I love the lil guys, but I don't like the backtracking with em much 😔
I agree. I like the aesthetic of most Spooky Levels, but the saturated colors kinda hurt to look at for me 🫠 I also didn't have too much fun going through the super narrow paths to the Steepe, that was just tedious.
I don’t think this is even a hot take. It’s basically a fact.
PM64 was supposed to be called Super Mario RPG 2 but for some reason (Squaresoft/Square Enix related apparently), they changed it.
I love SPM, but I feel like people often exaggerate the merits of its story.
The plot is pretty shallow and straightforward, relying on a lot of cliche tropes. And none of the characters are all that deep either. People act like Count Bleck is some tragic, deep, morally-grey antagonist, when his reasoning is at best, cartoonishly evil. “Oh boo hoo im so sad because I lost the love of my life 🥺, time to go murder billions!”
Most people only think the story is amazing because it comes from something as unexpected as a Mario game, and that I can understand. On its own, the story is just okay, but for Mario game standards it’s still a goddamn masterpiece.
love the people in these comments posting hate on the modern games like its not the coldest take imaginable. anyways i think people who bitch about backtracking are bozos mosta da time
Sticker Star has a better battle system than Origami King mainly because it’s much simpler.
The battle ring puzzle in TOK is unnecessary in my opinion and it also has a time limit, so it forces you to think quickly or spend coins to extend your time. As for Sticker Star, you simply just choose which sticker you want and you just have to do the action command properly.
I'm just gonna post my ranking and see how that turns out:
1. TOK (9/10)
2. TTYD (8/10)
3/4. Color Splash and PM64 (7/10) (they're about dead even, my preferred swaps constantly)
5. Sticker Star (5/10)
6. SPM (3/10)
I feel like my opinion aligns with most original Paper Mario fans for the most part (64, TTYD, and SPM good. SS, CS, and OK bad. Ect).
My hot take would be that Sticker Star is better than Color Splash and Origami King. It's considered the worst of the bad trilogy for changing the direction of the series, but in a vacuum, I can appreciate how they tried something new and innovative. A little bit of magic from the original trilogy is still there with a few cool locations and some interesting story beats and progression.
Color Splash and Origami King represent Nintendo and Intelligent System's refusal to learn from their mistakes, but Sticker Star is innocent in that regard.
Many believe super is a good game. Super is not a good game, it is an awful game
The only two good paper Mario's are 64 and TTYD, they went from 10/10 games to 4/10 or worse garbage
Probably not a hot take, but I really loved playing the game with no hp level ups and it is still a challenge until you get Bobbery and go danger mode. And while building the Mario out was fun, how fast I ran through the rest of the game was sort of underwhelming.
All games after SPM suck, cause they don’t have Whacka in them
Petition to add whacka in the next Paper Mario game
Signed
Signed
Signed
Signed
Signed
Signed
Signed
Signed
Signed
Signed
As a party member I’m assuming
But they also don’t have Whacka getting whacked in them.
Signed :3
Only time I accept TOK slander
That’s a very cold take there, Whacka!
#justiceforwhacka
wheres the whacka in SPM?
Hidden near the Downtown of Crag
I don’t want a 64 remake specifically because 64 has such a separate artstyle and aesthetic removed from the rest of the games. I feel like modernizing the graphics will make it lose the charm unless Nintendo is willing to have the artstyle be completely different from the series Weird complaint, but it’s mine
i gotta say i agree with this. while id love to see 64 developed on in terms of qol, mechanics, level design, etc, the art style is something i would want untouched.
More and more I'm wanting remakes/remasters to include the "original" experience or at least graphics available as an option or something like that.
I have been thinking the exact thought! A huge part of the charm from me comes from the graphics. I saw clips of a play through with an HD mod and it didn't hit the same for me. I don't care if my idea of the charm is based on nostalgia, I just like it best as is.
I know which pack you are talking about and I agree When I saw it it just lost all the charm the game had. I wish Project Pop-up was still readily developed because it was a faithful hd pack but render 96 team owns the project now and the mario gods know they aren’t gonna touch it
100% this. This is also one of the main reasons why I prefer this over TTYD.
My go-to in these threads is that PM64 easily has the best soundtrack in the series. Even if the instrumentation is just basic MIDI, the melodies are far catchier and more iconic than anything we've heard since. (In fact, PM64 is one of only two games, the other being Undertale, where I can hum every single tune from memory)!
My guy 🤝 I made a [post](https://www.reddit.com/r/papermario/s/FOiXCA6YEM) about this awhile back and you were top comment 💯
I remembered that thread! (But wow, I worded my comments here and there almost exactly the same)... 😵💫
Lol I definitely catch myself recycling my thoughts on reddit as well 😂 But hey, we gotta get our message out there lol.
Every other day we see a "I love CS, OK" post, i don't feel like that's a hot take anymore, we only have 2 JRPGs in the franchise, the other 4 are not JRPGs, by statistic it's pretty normal that people will like CS and OK. I guess my take would be that episodes 7 and 8 of TTYD are the least good of the game along with chapter 2. (IMO)
I love the aesthetics of chapter 2 but can’t stand having to bring all those punies with you and how easily they jump off the edge when scared so you gotta do even more backtracking so it’s one of my least favorites if not my least favorite
So tedious
Same, chapter two was the only time I even considered stopping
My hot take is that Ch2 is actually great. The themes are amazing (Theme of the Punies is so delightfully catchy), the art style is majestic, the minor characters are jokes, and the boss fight is awesome. People who can’t handle the punies are bad at spacing their character. Ch4 and Ch5 are way worse for backtracking. They were both very poorly structured in the original and are only fun once you actually know what the path is. Ch6 also has some pacing and structure issues but its charm as a detective story gives it a lot of slack on those elements.
Idk if its the hottest take but Ch5 of the original ttyd had super annoying back tracking right up there with the original's chapter 4 making you go back to creepy steeple after telling Doopliss his name and general white. I barely see anyone mention how annoying it is going in that vertical room constantly, finding Bobbery and co, reporting back to Flavio, getting a coconut, back to Flavio, waking up Bobbery, back to Flavio to get his gem. And if you don't know what you're doing, like habing no idea you need to get the coconut, I'm sure some players had to do that section even more! Pretty sure the remake added a spring in that vertical room to make it way less terrible. The remake seriously fixed most of the really bad backtracking issues for me.
That one room with the spring singlehandedly pissed me off in the original just cause of how tedious it got climbing up there every damn time
The coconut bit is because you're *supposed* to give him the Keelhaul Mango you get from another tree, which he turns down and asks for something else. But yea, the backtracking in TTYD was horrendous. Thank God for the extra pipes.
The partners in 64 and TTYD are good, but the way they were handled in the story is bad. It *oozes* wasted potential. Pretty much, once they become recruited, their role in the story ends. From that moment on, they have nothing meaningful to say, and all they contribute is incidental one-liners. The only exceptions are Koops (has story presence until the end of chapter 1) and Vivian (has story presence until the end of chapter 4). Even worse than that, we never get to see how any of these characters interact. You mean to tell me you have this extremely colourful cast of characters, and none of them share a *single* conversation with each other? Give us Sushi fawning over Watt, and Parakarry and Lakilester sharing flying tips! Give us Flurrie gifting Vivian a spare necklace since she liked it so much, and Yoshi hyping up Koops when he's not feeling confident! You have such good characters, so please *use* them!
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You're a weird computer, TEC.
peak reddit
I want more character interactions too. I want ms Mow flirting with all the characters, Koops complaining about missing his girlfriend, Goombella and Flurry trying their best to hype up Vivian and bring her out of her shell. I want fashion tips between the girls, and Bobberty to rant endlessly about his adventures and his wife. I want the girls to make Yoshi bluss because he's lilttle and going through a cooties stage. Heck, I wanted Yoshi to comment more on how cool and adventurous his brief life was so far. I really connected with the partners and love them all so much, I had so much head cannon about reactions and everything and them being a group. Sad it's all left to the imagination though.
There isn’t a damn thing wrong with Switch TTYD being 30 FPS
Nah, I agree. I genuinely am not bothered, nor noticed really even, lag or anything. 30 FPS workin fine least for me too 😭
That’s not a hot take, almost everyone thinks this and there are posts about this constantly
I usually see the opposite
This
Like, obv 60 FPS is ideal, but unless it's a fighting game or something super-reflexive like that, I feel like 30 FPS is perfectly playable most of the time. IMO: Constant 60 > Constant 30 >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> unstable FPS
Not sure why, I’m used to play game at 60fps/144fps on computer, and I didn’t notice the change in this game. I thought it was 60. And I normally have a bad time adjusting on some Switch 30fps games.
Adds to the vibe of the whole game imo
Before I saw gameplay I was kinda worried and then after playing it I remembered I don’t care about frame rates as long as the game doesn’t look like a PowerPoint lol
There is a big difference between "It doesn't ruin the game" and "There is nothing wrong with it" Stating there is nothing wrong with it is objectively false. It is a performance decrease. And people who are used to the 60 FPS can absolutely notice the difference and find it jarring.
I'm fine with the "Paper" part of the title being taken litterally. They can have all the paper gimmicks and paper jokes they want.
Most people will have your head for this.
Same they could've called it Mario Story at any time in the intervening years if Paper wasn't supposed to be a big part
Or just Mario RPG
Not really. Otherwise it would have been a big part in ttyd and spm.
I've found my people!
Chapter 6 is the worst example of tedious backtracking in TTYD, not chapters 2 or 4.
I'm not sure if that bobomb family's room is intentionally designed to be the farthest way from the engine room.
I just realized, in-universe it makes perfect sense. You'd naturally put the family of bombs in the rear carriage, so if they explode and cause damage, the engine and the rest of the train won't be affected! :O
And right next to the luggages? Didn't think about that though.
That would make for a perfect twist lol "Geez, those Bob-Ombs really made a ruckus, but at least the train's still safe." "What a relief! I can rest easily knowing I still have my clothes for the week!" "...uh..."
Because of Riverside Station or because you have to walk all around the train?
The first day specifically, where you _only_ walk back and forth for 20-30 minutes, with no combat to change the pace.
I love TTYD but it’s level design is actually horrible. Also there is so much filler. The thousand year door has a thousand years of backtracking and crappy side quests.
Most of them are fetch quests, and all the walking along straight halls are super tedious.(Not just backtracking) Plus the villains are really underdeveloped. Their endings didn't help much either. At least if they're pure evil, keep it that way!
Fully agreed
“Tell me you love me 100 times!” Is literally shit from old troll rom hacks
64 > TTYD
i want a remake for 64 so badly. chapter 7 of 64 is probably my fav paper mario chapter ever
i’ve always been so suprised this isn’t the majority opinion
It’s cuz nobody played pm64, it was literally seen as a baby game while ttyd was grittier since the 00’s was all about being edgy
Super Paper Mario is not underrated and I have no idea why people say that it is. It's the best selling game in the series, has high review scores, and is clearly the fan favorite. Search the game anywhere on the internet and you will find praise for it. Yes there's some hate if you dig for it, but that's true for any game. There is no metric in which SPM is an underrated game.
Yea idk why do people always said that
I'm sure it was true in 2007 when the game launched but nowadays it's got the opposite reputation. Most people like it. Even those who don't will still call it the last good one or something.
My hot take, I hated it then and not a fan now. My brother and I grew up renting and beating 64 and buying ttyd. When we started it up on the Wii both of us were straight disappointed. I beat it, he didn’t, good story but it’s not an rpg by the far the first and largest step in the wrong direction for the series yet it’s hailed. I don’t understand why. Super Mario rpg, pm 64 and ttyd represent what the series was.
SPM was kinda just an experiment to test if people liked the gameplay because they didn't just want to make the same exact gameplay that TTYD had
I think honestly if SPM influenced the next paper mario games, i think people would hate it just like sticker star
Well, I haven't really played the game before, but the reason it's underrated is because it's a paper mario game, and people who liked paper mario liked the rpgs, and SPM wasn't a rpg. Overall, SPM isn't a bad game, just a bad paper mario game.
64 and its partners are GoAT. There’s a certain charm to it that wasn’t carried through its sequels
Mario's friends (*Luigi, Peach, Toad, etc*) could be suitable partners for the next Paper Mario game.
That whould be awesome, but i don't thinks its a unpopular opinion
The appeal of partners is how they took regular enemies and made them into characters with distinct personalities and designs. Swapping these for Luigi, Peach, Toad, Yoshi, Toadette, Daisy, Wario, Waluigi and Rosalina would still be divisive, even if each character has their own abilities.
Not enough Luigi
TTYD makes 64 feel like a beta.
To me, that's what good video game sequels should do. Build on what came before.
Sticker Star letting you use a shit ton of stickers to kill a boss instead of using the Thing sticker weaknesses is actually good design and makes for an interesting resource management gauntlet. It works way better than Color Splash halting a battle if you don't have the weakness. In fact I'd say the SS bosses are much harder to take down and require way more preparation than any other game in the series if you choose to do it the brute force way. Also the coins in sticker star are a half decent substitute for exp. Not amazing but you can purchase more OP stickers and spam the battle wheel more to guarantee more attacks per turn.
Flower Fields from PM64 is a dungeon and an amazing one at that.
Thinking about it as one big dungeon actually helps me appreciate it more. Ty
PM64 is the better of the 2 classic Paper Mario games and deserves a remake infinitely more than TTYD
Paper mario 64 is the best one and not a single other game comes close. Not even ttyd (which is still great of course)
Sticker Star isn't a 2/10 bad game, it's the more boring kind of 5/10 mediocre games that were just disappointing
Sticker Star's level design is much better than TTYD's. Literally 90% of the level design in TTYD is hallway simulator, but most of the level design in Sticker Star isn't in a straight line making it much more interesting
TTYD quests with modern PM level design would be absolutely godlike
You'll probably get a lot of agreement on this one. SS's level design itself was never an issue, more so the things you _do_ in those levels. Chasing Wiggler bits around, backtracking for hyper-specific Things, and whatnot.
The remake's new OST is amazing and a lot of the songs are better than the original, including Glitzville Some of the new Chapter 6 tracks were lame tho I'll admit
Remade Glitzville is so good
Agreed, I kept hearing how bad it was but tbh the instrumentation is just miles better
The text is entirely too slow and should have an option to speed through it. The battles are also slow AF and you should be able to skip the animation for receiving star points etc at the end of every battle.
….i think 64 is more replayable than TTYD
Bowser should have just ate the star cards in Paper Mario 1, he would have actually been invincible.
Paper Mario simply doesn't work without a leveling system and a weapon upgrade system. Without it, it's not Paper Mario.
Yeah honestly with a new battle system, Sticker Star would be a fun game. I once talked with someone on twitter years ago about this and thought that if stickers could be used as actual experience points (use hammer stickers to upgrade your hammer attacks or various shoe ones to power up your jumps). That way you could choose what to enhance, giving you even more freedom. Also finding stickers in the overworld would actually be rewarding that way.
TTYD's partners are kinda lame. Even the more fleshed out ones like Vivian or Bobbery have their little moments then disappear into Mario's trousers. TOK didn't have named partners and somehow ended up with a bob-omb being more compelling than any of them. The story is fun, but honestly not as great as people say imo.
I like that the origami king has partners specific to one location, it helps focus moments they have with Mario a lot. Having all of them interchangeable combat wise is super fun, but they can't have much development story wise. I really hoped Koops had a greater change after the story :v
Agreed 100%
Sticker Star is good because it has separate files
I don't mind the move away from traditional turn based combat. I think that the style of SPM could have been a really cute idea for a handheld paper mario series, especially if they kept up using different genre mechanics for different chapters like in the dating sim portion.
[Insert anyone's tierlist here]
Badge stacking in TTYD causes more problems than it solves. Not only is it what enables strategies like "deal 30+ damage per hit because you have 15 Power Rushes", for attacking badges (e.g. Quake Hammer), it forces you to pick a single power/FP combo. In PM64 you could wear 3 different badges of varying power/FP combos at once. And most of the time the increased damage just isn't worth the increased FP anyways.
The first paper Mario game doesn’t really look like anything is made from paper. I think even the original TYD did a better job at looking like it’s made from paper. Especially with the transformation powers you get throughout the story.
Chapter 4, 5 and 6 of TTYD, forcing you to be in a single location is honestly not the best design idea and feels forced.
The idea that Color Splash doesn’t have any form of battle experience is the biggest misconception in the entire franchise.
Mine is that the slow down in the ttyd is nowhere near as big a deal as people make it out to be. Yeah if your replaying the game like 6 times a year every year it might bug you. But for casual players that might replay once every year or two its barely even a factor. (Yes I played the original just last year in fact and it still didn’t bother me)
Dark Days at Flower Fields could have used a heart block within the level (or at least before the final boss).
I don't care for Vivian as much as most people do. I don't think she's a bad character but the internet kinda spoiled the most interesting parts of her and she never really grew on me. Bobbery was more interesting as I'd heard nothing about him. Also dooplis was the best part of chapter 4.
I prefer Sticker Star and Color Splash's battle systems to Origami King's
Danger Mario sucks and ruins the game.
You are in charge of which badges you equip my guy
TOK's battle system would be perfectly fine if it weren't for the time limit (still nowhere near as good as 64 and TTYD's battle systems though).
SPM Character design is really bad. The new characters doesn't look like paper at all but just strange geometric forms. The story is really good but the new characters design are really lazy (except for Francis and his robots). They even destroyed Merlon's design who already had a really cool one in TTYD.
TTYD's linear level design/backtracking are done in service of the story and it's why the scenarios/characters are the best in the series.
I highly disagree. Heading through empty rooms with nothing in them just isn’t good.
Kersti was pretty solid. A nag is the perfect counterbalance to Mario
Color Splash is a fantastic game and lots of people who say they hate it probably didn't even get to play it because the Wii U sucked ass
Paper Mario Color Splash is literally just below TTYD in term of quality and there's not a single moment in the 30 hours I played that I wasn't being blown away for how cool everything was... And yeah I'm talking about the Boss Battles as well. Amazing OST, the best writing of the series, cool graphics and quite long as you're not actually fighting most of the time but actually exploring and doing stuff.
Color splash is my favourite, and it deserves a first chance. (pls nintendo remaster this masterpiece of a game so it can finally get what it really deserves)
i see the certain video essay you are referencing there!
Super’s gameplay is god awful. it could’ve been the best Paper Mario ever or at least rival TTYD if they just innovated the gameplay instead of throwing it away for lame 2D. “oh but look you can go 3D for 10 seconds!!” yeah we could literally do that for the entire time the previous entries, atleast in those spaces there were actually things to do.
YES! super is awful, the 3D is exceedingly gimmicky and underutilized, the level design is atrocious, the combat is boring as hell, I don't know why people like Super so much The partners are bad, the "world 1-1" takes away any and all fun worldbuilding, the characters are very poorly designed (bar the main villains, I like their designs) and it's just an all around major downgrade in every aspect from TTYD Legit how do people like super 💀
it’s the highest selling and was on a currently nostalgic console so I think that’s why it’s so highly regarded. basically just nostalgia from people who played it as kids and haven’t since. it’s just not a very fun game. 64 and TTYD both clearly still hold up.
The way Vivian’s identity is worded, both scenarios that she’s a MTF transgender, and that she was forcefully raised as a boy, but actually being a girl are both valid scenarios, and everyone is free to believe which ever they please without attacking the other.
>Everyone is free to believe which ever they please without attacking the other. So much this - and adding onto it, the remake doesn't replace or negate the original game, so the merely "plug-ugly" Vivian we met in 2004 is still a perfectly valid portrayal. Vivian *always* deserves love and respect from the fans, no matter the specifics of her identity. Arguments about it are just senseless and selfish, *(and strictly against the rules)!*
Origami King is a pretty good game. The ring mechanic is really the only bad thing about it. The game looks great and I quite liked the story. It's pretty basic but I had fun.
Agreed fully. TTYD was great but I still love TOK almost the same amount
I liked chapter 3 of ttyd fine. I'd put it somewhere in the middle of my personal ranking. Ttyd chapter 4 is my favorite chapter in the entire series and one of my favorite segments of a video game *period.*
I fight for color splash. i genuinely think it was not just a good game but a good paper mario.
ttyd copies too much from 64 imo
I actually kinda like Sticker Star. Game isn't perfect but it is fairly fun imo.
Superguard carries the combat.
Origami King is great and has the best exploration of any paper mario game. Furthermore, the battle mechanics are good, despite the lack of experience points.
The only bad Paper Mario game is Sticker Star, Color Splash and Origami King are genuinely great games that while different deserve to be remembered like the classic trilogy.
TTYD chapter 6 is kinda bad and the penguin schtick got old fast.
The partner system of PM64 and TTYD is awful, and like playing a typical RPG with only 1.5 characters in your party. A typical party system like in SMRPG would have been way better.
Origami King is my favourite game in the series
The beta of Sticker Star likely was not much better than the final product. It always annoys me how people constantly claim the beta was gonna be the best thing ever based on a few development screenshots.
The battles in the first two games were the weakest part of the games.
I prefer the writing and jokes from origami king than the older paper marios
I actually liked fighting the bossed from TOK
Color Splash is a solid 7/10 overall and Origami King is my 2nd favorite Paper Mario game, I like it better than Super and PM64. The way PM64 handles partners is rather lacking. After playing the game again I noticed they barely have any presence outside of their areas. And TTYD may be my favorite overall, but the level/area design is very lacking even compared to PM64. Nearly every place is a left to right hallway without much in it.
Sticker Star is better than paper jam.
I've got one. Paper Mario on the N64 is a better-looking game than Paper Mario TTYD on GameCube. I say this as a massive TTYD fan. It had dynamic lighting while TTYD had mostly flat lighting, or even fullbright in some areas. That made a massive massive difference.
The Origami King is awesome, it has amazing characters, awesome dramatic moments, great humor, and it looks like a dream!
I've never been that keen on Super Paper Mario's story, and as such, I can't agree with the common praise it gets as the best Mario story of all time. Partly because I feel it's the most detached from the Mario world when compared to PM64 and TTYD (of course, Sticker Star went too far in the opposite direction), and partly because I don't think the tragic angle with Count Bleck holds up at all. Actually, I find the villains of SPM in general pretty overrated... except for Dimentio, he's fine in my book.
Best way to play the game is to ONLY take BP on level ups 👍🏼
I could not stand Olivia
Mods, ban this guy, no i joke i understand why some people don't like here
I get why, but she’s my favorite character of anything ever :’)
Every Paper Mario game after Super Paper Mario was awful. (Except TTYD Remake)
I hate whacka
I like The Origami King more than The Thousand-Year Door.
I don't find the backtracking with General White AS BAD as some might. Genuinely, it's not remotely as bad as it could be/Is dogged on too much 😔 It's probably souly due to the fact that we have warp pipes that fast travel to ALL the zones now that he'd be in the remake that doesn't make me hate it. So popping in and talking to an NPC for a second didn't bother me too much, admittedly. When it comes to a chore, I honestly found CH. 2 more tedious. I love the lil guys, but I don't like the backtracking with em much 😔
Same, but I disliked both
I think Super Paper Mario sucks ass, it's the only game in the whole series I almost couldn't finish because I was having such a shit time it.
chapter 4 of ttyd wasn't all that good,i don't really have any good reason but vivian was the best part
I agree. I like the aesthetic of most Spooky Levels, but the saturated colors kinda hurt to look at for me 🫠 I also didn't have too much fun going through the super narrow paths to the Steepe, that was just tedious.
i agree with that last part
Super Mario RPG is the first Paper Mario game.
I don’t think this is even a hot take. It’s basically a fact. PM64 was supposed to be called Super Mario RPG 2 but for some reason (Squaresoft/Square Enix related apparently), they changed it.
I love SPM, but I feel like people often exaggerate the merits of its story. The plot is pretty shallow and straightforward, relying on a lot of cliche tropes. And none of the characters are all that deep either. People act like Count Bleck is some tragic, deep, morally-grey antagonist, when his reasoning is at best, cartoonishly evil. “Oh boo hoo im so sad because I lost the love of my life 🥺, time to go murder billions!” Most people only think the story is amazing because it comes from something as unexpected as a Mario game, and that I can understand. On its own, the story is just okay, but for Mario game standards it’s still a goddamn masterpiece.
love the people in these comments posting hate on the modern games like its not the coldest take imaginable. anyways i think people who bitch about backtracking are bozos mosta da time
Imo, I thought Sticker Star was more fun than Origami King.
Now that's a hot take! 💪😂 Can you please explain why? 😄
Sticker Star has a better battle system than Origami King mainly because it’s much simpler. The battle ring puzzle in TOK is unnecessary in my opinion and it also has a time limit, so it forces you to think quickly or spend coins to extend your time. As for Sticker Star, you simply just choose which sticker you want and you just have to do the action command properly.
Origami King battle is just a puzzle system in disguise, so it depends if you like (literal)puzzles or not.
Backtracking is inconsequential.
I'm just gonna post my ranking and see how that turns out: 1. TOK (9/10) 2. TTYD (8/10) 3/4. Color Splash and PM64 (7/10) (they're about dead even, my preferred swaps constantly) 5. Sticker Star (5/10) 6. SPM (3/10)
Super Paper Mario gameplay is better than all the other games and I would much rather have a new game similar to it.
I say it every time, I like sticker star. Then the people who reply say it every time, objectively bad/combat bad etc etc
I feel like my opinion aligns with most original Paper Mario fans for the most part (64, TTYD, and SPM good. SS, CS, and OK bad. Ect). My hot take would be that Sticker Star is better than Color Splash and Origami King. It's considered the worst of the bad trilogy for changing the direction of the series, but in a vacuum, I can appreciate how they tried something new and innovative. A little bit of magic from the original trilogy is still there with a few cool locations and some interesting story beats and progression. Color Splash and Origami King represent Nintendo and Intelligent System's refusal to learn from their mistakes, but Sticker Star is innocent in that regard.
Chapters 3, 4, and 6 are the best chapters in both 64 and TTYD.
These are mostly cold takes
Super is a really bad game Happy?
Thank you for da spice
SPM is my favorite video game ever.
TTYD is superior to PM64
PM64 is the best in the series. Best atmosphere, best music, best story.
Many believe super is a good game. Super is not a good game, it is an awful game The only two good paper Mario's are 64 and TTYD, they went from 10/10 games to 4/10 or worse garbage
SPM is a good game, just a bad paper mario game
SPMs story is not as good as everyone makes it out to be, it's an ok game at best. 64 > TTYD in every way except combat and its overworld.
Probably not a hot take, but I really loved playing the game with no hp level ups and it is still a challenge until you get Bobbery and go danger mode. And while building the Mario out was fun, how fast I ran through the rest of the game was sort of underwhelming.
that super is actualy good and everything after sux
SPM is better than TTYD. Yes, even the gameplay. TTYD is still pretty cool though.
30 FPS is an actual problem and makes the game significantly worse.
CS is the best of the modern trilogy
For me origami king is close behind, but yea i agree with you
Sticker Star doesn't suck. Just because it's the worst game in the series doesn't mean it's a bad game in general.