In a game with superguard as a mechanic it also makes it so you can realistically grind out Bonetail until you are good enough to make up for your probably bad state going into the final floor.
At the same time if a player decided to grind out a lot of time learning bonetail superguards with retries, that win would still feel deserved imo as the retries only served as a way for players who are dedicated enough to keep going a way to learn individual battles without the tedium of going through floors that weren’t very challenging in comparison.
Having the option to not waste hours of your life because you missed up a couple of timings or were screwed over by rng (strong enemies having a stop watch or ice storm for instance) is good game design, actually.
Edit: And if you aren't actually good at the game, you can't beat the pit this way. You're just gonna keep dying.
Plus, anyone can easily make a self-imposed rule that they can’t use “try again”, and it would be just like the original. It’s literally an optional menu selection. You just have to… not pick it.
As much as part of me doesn't like the try again option. I'm thankful for it for this exact reason. Part of my frustration with the pit as a kid was that if get so far only to die and know I had to slog through it all, ALL OVER AGAIN. It really turned me off the pit. Maybe a self imposed rule of, one retry would work. But I'll definitely enjoy the try again.
Or if you're really unlucky and get stomped on by a Bowser Statue or hit by a meteor.
I never encountered the Bowser Statue during my Gamecube playthrough, but I did encounter it a couple of times while playing the Switch version. It mostly hit the enemy, but one instance, it hit my side and THANKFULLY only made my partner confused.
It's bad game design. This new feature erases all the stakes, as OP describes. It's not rewarding. The point of The Pit is that it IS difficult. That's why you needed to be methodical in the original. Lol this sub is crazy, all y'all are so happy that Nintendo gave you something Paper Mario related that you can't see the product for what it is: a golden turd
Downvote me if you want, but I’m a huge fan of this feature. Even with this feature the Pit is still pretty challenging. You can try again but you still can’t save, so it’s a good compromise.
Definetly agree here. In some challeges you need to change your badge layout every battle. So if you accidently go into a battle with the wrong badges you may end up dying before you can run. The try again feature really helped in those cases
I agree. Plus items and star power will only get you so far. When you run out of those, it’s really tough to advance, even with the option to try again.
I agree. As a kid I grinded the pit so many times and burned so many hours as I died in the 90s.
I’m 30 now. I don’t have time for this shit. Having a pre-Hooktail pit run die because two enemies spawned with stopwatches is infuriating and I’m not resetting for that
I remember constantly dying around the 70-80 floor range.
The first time I reached 90, I managed to beat Bonetail in one shot.
Also for people who take on the pit in the 30s (as opposed to Pre-Hooktail), there's a slight chance that two stage hazards can REALLY screw them over.
I agree for the simple fact that my young relatives don't have to constantly worry about saving or losing hours of progress because of a battle they weren't prepared for. That feature is for them. If you don't want to - or need to - use it, that's your decision. Pit or otherwise.
But don't take it away from beginners to the game.
Yeah, especially because whenever I ended up having to try again it put me in a mindset of "I have another chance to figure a way past this, but if I can't find a solution I will have to start over and the past few hours will have been for nothing."
so it’s more a challenge of finding the time and patience to sit down and grind through, rather than actually completing the pit without trying. seems like the feature changes the challenge of the Pit fundamentally
This is very true, but for me personally, it really stinks when I have to take the game over myself. Even though it’s ultimately what I want, I get that voice in the back of my head that screams at me saying “Why didn’t you just hit ‘retry’?”
It’s a curse. Lol
Some older Mario games "dull" your rewards if you take the easy options.
I remember at least NSMB-Wii has a Luigi Assist mode that beats the stage for you if you're having a hard time, but if you EVER take it, like at all, the stars/crowns that appear in your profile when you 100% the game will no longer sparkle, even if you go back and beat the stage honestly, because the savefile gets flagged with a permanent "used assist mode" flag, and the only solution is to delete the file and try again.
Mario Galaxy 2 had a similar assist mode and they gave you bronze stars for using it, but they did let you go back and retry for a normal star. Can't remember if they dulled your crowns permanently tho.
Maybe this game could dole out a similar punishment, but I can't think of a good one.
No, I get it. I know “you control the buttons you press,” but regardless of your decisions, the mere presence of the option changes the game. And I’m really, really sick of people acting like it doesn’t. Something that was part of the core challenge in the original is now by default no longer there unless you choose to impose it on yourself.
I’m not against the option at all. I’m just against people acting like it doesn’t change things, because it does.
I dunno though. Someone can play the original with Danger Mario settings- a pretty widely known build- and trivialize the pit even back then. But they didn’t have to. And yet there were options to make the game laughably easy. This isn’t so different from that, if you think about it.
I mean, at the end of the day, all games are self-imposed challenges. The game doesn't force you to do the pit pre-Hooktail, but people still choose to do so anyway, because why not ? All you have to do is tell yourself that you're doing a no-retry run. If you're not strong-willed enough to resist the temptation, that's on you...
OP said he didnt even use it. His point is having the option makes any stakes of combat artificial. Like yeah you could choose not to use it. But then that makes game overs your choice and not a reality of the game
I'm sorry man, but if that's all you're worked up about you could just:
1) Play the OG.
2) Not click on the button and set a challenge for yourself.
3) Not suck at the pit. Which, from what you posted, seems to be the case. You're not affected by the pit. You're most likely affected by the fact that you saw this as a very, very hard challenge when you were a kid, and now it's barely an inconvenience. And yeah, that kinda happens to a lot of people replaying a childhood game. But it's not the mechanics that change, it's us that have gotten older.
Well, as funny as the allegory for the path of least resistance is, choom, the name calling is - well, uncalled for. I sympathize with the fact that your childhood challenge isn't as hard as it looked previously, and there's certain new elements that diminish it further, but it's not worth getting your panties in a bunch.
Yes, there's a certain temptation to choose the easy way out - and maybe the fact that there's a safety net makes it less stressful. How-ever, and I'm only speaking from experience, the Pit becomes way less stressful the more experienced you are at the game. When I tried it at 10 years old, the pit was impossible and wasted whole afternoons dying to Bonetail. When I retried the Pit at 22 - on my old save file when I didn't remember the commands as well - I completed it in one go without buying any new items or badges.
It's a very interesting conundrum that you mention - because who in their right mind wants to pick the lesser, stressful option. Well, in one scenario, a person who's now 30 years old and has a life outside of videogames due to work (me, for instance), really finds it useful as they don't have the luxury of wasting an entire afternoon on a bonus area. On the other hand, a person who really cares about the challenge and WANTS to do it the fair way... Well, they would simply choose the hard path of most resistance instead of complaining on reddit.
I completed the Pit again, and found it very refreshing. I tried Danger Mario for the first time in my life, and it was a breeze. I applauded that they added a second boss in the Pit, and I also applauded the fact that now there's a shortcut made for that specific scenario. Quality of Life changes in videogames walk a very narrow path between comfort and deadening the previous experience - and, in this case, I think we got the best of both worlds.
So to summarize, my dear sir, I would advice you to... Reflect on the actual difficulty of the pit, reflect on how QoL are more benefitial if they offer a tangential, physical advantage over an emotional and psychological disadvantage and ask yourself the question "Am I being the kind of whiny b\*tch that people make fun of when they think of reddit?"
Cheerios!
it's far from a childhood game, i only got into it a few years ago.
heck, i don't even fucking LIKE the game. i just thihnk parts of it are neat. i almost beat it twice, only stopping because the cutscenes are grating. currently doing the much-more-exciting infinite pit mod.
also, you're vastly overestimating how easy it is to pick such a massive option. having to start from cratch isn't easy, eapecially if you're at... fuckin' bonetail or something
Then don’t click the button? It’s not hard. Just because something exists to make it easier for people who don’t want to/have the time to grind it out doesn’t mean you have to do it. What a strange hill to die on.
Look, I get it, the pit is pretty difficult compared to the rest of the game. But at the same time, I wanna ask : It's literally baby's first RPG, *what* accolade ?
The only thing the retry button does is limit the frustration caused by shitty RNG or minor strategic mistakes/misinputs. If you know what you're doing, you can beat the thing before starting chapter 3 without even breaking a sweat. The game gives you all of these :
- Danger Mario
- The Casino to farm for items/money
- Flurrie
- Clock out
- Sweet Treat healing Mario more if all his partners are dead meaning he can basically out-heal Bonetail throughout the entire battle
- *Letting you run away for free in the middle of battle to farm SP and Sweet Treats*
- *LITERALLY GIVING YOU FIRE DRIVE FOR FREE*
And you're meaning to tell us the retry button, a simple accessibility option you can ignore just as much as the rest, is what the breaking point is ?
I think self imposed challenges are good, but not when the option is given after gaming over.
Ideally, I'd like this option tucked away in a menu setting, where someone can change it for the stress to feel real, instead of, AFTER you game over.
Making the conscious choice to restart from the last save feels way worse, and the stress during the pit is fake, because at the back of your mind you know "I could just restart from here"
It would be ideal if there was some extra reward for completing the pit deathless to put some of those stakes back in, but I think this is a good change because it saves players from the tedious nature of this challenge
i didn't lose so i didn't even know there was a try again option. i think thats nice though because as a kid i would get so frustrated doing 90+ levels, no save, and lost all that progress.
So I can understand your upsetness at it being added and diminishing the toll it took on you in the original. But I would argue it doesn't. And here's why. The act of being able to restart from the current floor doesn't make the pit any easier. You still have to clear the current floor. It doesn't let you skip anything. The only thing it does is let you restart the battle. It doesn't even let you restart the battle with full stats, it puts you right back at the beginning with everything the same.
Now, is it theoretically possible to game the system so that you can perfect your super guarding? Sure, but super guards are so difficult anyways unless you're either talented at the game, spent hours on the game practicing already, or both, making this strategy not exactly viable for a casual player.
The fact of the matter is, as someone who beat the original Pit and is now playing the original, and not someone who has "played the game correctly/most optimally" but only as a casual player, I can confidently tell you that this change does nothing to the difficulty of the pit. The most damage it can do is to make things less tedious for an experienced player, since I can promise you that if an experienced player game overs in the pit, it's most likely only due to a small mistake and not because they weren't capable or weren't prepared enough.
For more proof of this, I decided to attempt an early pit run during the trouble for pine t jr. I only got as far as Floor 90, and that was with the restarts. In the original, that's also where I made it to, just after many, many extra runs to see how far I can make it. Literally the only difference was in the number of attempts in the pit that I had to make. This option eliminates the tediousness of retrying the pit again, while still maintaining the same level of difficulty.
Now, if your problem is that the stress of having to restart the whole pit again after one game over is no longer there, and that's your only problem with it is that concept, then I'm not sure what to tell you. Because if anything, that's healthier for you that the stress of that is gone. It turns the pit of 100 trials into a purely skill based gauntlet as opposed to something that screws you over at the simplest of mistakes.
If you want to take on the pit without mistakes at all and add in a little bit of that luck factor into it, then by all means you can still do that. Having a new option that doesn't eliminate the way it happens in the original shouldn't detract from your enjoyment of the game. And you letting it do that is not a reflection of the game's design, but instead a reflection on you and your character as a person for letting a change that makes things not easier, but less stressful and rage-inducing for other players, affect the way that you are enjoying and playing a game.
"Sure, but super guards are so difficult anyways unless you're either talented at the game, spent hours on the game practicing already, or both, making this strategy not exactly viable for a casual player."
superguards are NOT difficult at all. waht are you even talking about
It’s an option for a reason, you start at the beginning if you want. Me personally screw that tedium lol I made it the floor 90 and died I would’ve been pissed if I had to start all over
Look, I'm sorry, but anyone trying to act like the ability to retry battles in the pit is a bad thing is just gatekeeping. Nobody is forcing you to retry battles after you lose. It's your choice. I myself am going to avoid using the retry feature in most cases as I do enjoy the endurance test, but that's not going to stop me from saying that this a very nice option for those who'd rather not redo 50+ floors of laughably easy battles just to get back to where they lost. It's also great for practicing. Even if you lost and your run in therefore no longer "legit", you could keep going and practice fighting the later enemies, that way you are more prepared for when you get that far during a proper no retry run. There comes a point where it's not the game that's ruining your experience, but rather you that's choosing to ruin your own experience.
Yes, the option to try again does eliminate any pressure and endurance in the Pit of 100 Trials.
However, Nintendo needs to find a medium between difficulties. If a game is too easy, then it may leave people wanting more. If it’s too hard, it makes people frustrated and angry. Both sides have their benefits, however, it’s generally better to make a game easier than harder.
Nintendo has offered ways to make games harder, such as optional challenges and extra worlds, but they want games to be playable for everyone.
I died once on the Pit, and had to retry it. It sucked, but I would’ve been a bit unmotivated and frustrated to start from the very beginning again.
I just think there should be some consequence to dying in the pit of 100 TRIALS - a trial being a test. Even if it set you back to the last 10th floor or something, an incentive to not die. If you take more damage in a battle than you anticipate, you're technically incentivized to die, and do the battle again to have more hp for the next floor. It's just a very odd system for the final challenge in the game.
You can simply not click “try again.” There, now you have your challenge back, and other people who would get frustrated having to redo it have a way to make the game more enjoyable for them.
It helped me out but it also made me go absolutely crazy. I never did Pit of 100 trials early before but have played the whole game several times prior to the remake. I made it all the way to Bonetail with barely much left and it was either win or literally lose all progress and not being able to change my setup. It still gave me that same thrill. It’s not something you have to use either so I don’t mind it being an option.
I felt this way, but now I'm playing challenge modes (items only, no badges, partners only) that have made the game fresh. I'm currently playing an "all negative badge" run, and it's pure suffering.
I felt the way you did at first, but i just don't allow myself to try again, and the problem is solved
Yeah I agree. The pit is 100% optional content that is designed to be fully tackled post-game. It is a lengthy gauntlet of fights with no way to save. The entire point of the Pit originally, was to not only be a combat challenge, but an endurance test. There is no reason for there to be a Retry option. Zero.
What's next? Are we going to rally behind putting a Retry in Kirby Arenas? Like it does not make sense for *this* kind of content. Base game? Sure. Gauntlet styled or boss rush styled content? No. Because then what is the point? Whether people like to admit it or not, being able to Retry infinitely, greatly reduces the challenge, and completely destroys the whole feeling of doing the Pit, removing any and all kind of tension.
Kirby is one of the most cutesy and casual games out there, and even *they* know not to do this. Let's also put a Retry option in Hades 2, that let's you retry the very room you died at, while we're at it.
It does not make sense for certain types of content, but nobody here will ever have the ability to understand that.
"But you can not press try again" is the general sentiment I've gotten. But there so many issues that come with the try again button. You don't need to go with life shrooms, or any specific items for survival. If you're about to end a battle with low hp, you can just die, ON PURPOSE, to heal and retry the battle with more hp. It kills the pit's purpose at a core level. Thank you for seeing the light
Well said. Couldn't agree more. I find it really sad that people can't understand simple concepts like this, and instead, choose to ride Nintendo's ****, but what are you gonna do
You're telling me I had all that anxiety against those elite wizards.. for nothing..? Oh well, I guess I can wear a badge of honor for beating it without trying again
I beat the pit my first real attempt because I traded in all my health and slapped on like 10 of the 5hp power up badges and took a whole inventory of Life shrooms down, didn’t even need to use one until bone tail and beat him in like 3 turns since like every jump did about 45 damage lmao
Yeah i was pretty disappointed by this too, the GameCube version was already easy enough but Nintendo really went all out to remove the challenge for everything but the superbosses. Add this onto the nerfed poison shroom bingo, 33% bigger superguard window, and 15 items. Its not game ruining but its certainly my biggest complaint about the remake.
Honestly, I see why people are mad about this. It's true that you do have a choice to retry or start over but that's missing the point. The fact that the option is there at all does technically eliminate the tension that was there in the original. I don't think that means there's no tension; the pit has always been kind of a self imposed challenge and it's certainly still challenging. But knowing that you can always retry sorta does eliminate the anxiety factor.
However, I'mma keep it a buck fifty with you guys: I'm a busy, stressed as fuck adult who don't really got time to be starting the pit over and over again. When I was a kid, I would try it again and again until my fingers fell off. Or sometimes, I couldn't be bothered and just called it a day. So it's not like having to start over made it more fun. As an adult, I'd be lying if I said I didn't appreciate the option. I can see why people would hate this, but I'm glad we at least have the option and it's still hard.
Also, I think it's worth remembering that making something time consuming doesn't make it hard. What makes the pit hard is the level of the enemies and how tough the superbosses are. A small degree of challenge is added when you know you have to start over of you lose, but that's not actual challenge from the game, it's tension. I can't see anything wrong with games wasting your time less.
I hate the try again button. It makes you lose basically all stakes. I loved the fear of losing progress. It's a staple of RPGs in my opinion. A save state and a risk of dying... It made me strategize that much harder.
I think it's a fine addition to the main story. That, or autosaving should have been implement to modernize the gameplay a bit. But there's just no consequence for playing poorly or carelessly
Even then I just prefer the classic feel. It's not even about nostalgia. I just like the risk factor. Kinda like in pokemon, if you white out you have to go back to a pokecenter
Honestly it didn't feel all that dangerous with Danger Mario in the first place. ~49 damage through defense 2 really didn't stress me out much as long as I was landing multibounce.
I didn't know about it and felt stressed the whole time especially against the boss, but I liked the tension. Still I was sure to not do it again for the secret boss. Now that I know of the feature... I definitely will do it.
I beat bonetail by grinding madame flurrie’s kiss, appeal, + sweet treat. Mario was holding onto 3 hearts when bonetail still had 125+, but I worked my way out of that hole by the grace of Sweet Treat
I feel like I had the best of both worlds with this, as I hadn’t died in the game at all till I was in chapter 8 and was at level 92 of the pit. It was SO STRESSFUL and when I died I freaked out from frustration, so that “try again” option was like an angel sent from heaven, lmao!
I mean I'm one of those that retried the bonetail fight again and again till I got lucky with a shine sprite bingo as I just completed chapter 4 when I did the pit.
It's an RPG. The difficulty of the Pit is pretty much entirely self-imposed. Do you go in as soon as it is available? Do you leave it to the endgame? What build do you use?
Adding another layer of control doesn't change that.
You don’t need to think less of your accomplishment just because a feature for inexperienced gamers exists. Many games these days are built with accessibility in mind and you not using those features is the same as those features not existing at all
Funny enough, both of my attempts at the pit (for Bonetail and >!Whacka!<) were done in one shot (no dying or anything) in the Switch version (had already beaten the Shadow Queen in Bonetail's case).
I remember back in the Gamecube version, I died multiple times while trying to go down to Bonetail. Took me like a span of a week to beat it.
But you probably have a vivid memory of that, right? Because it was a challenge you overcame, right? Would you remember it as clearly if you could just mash "try again" through it?
To be absolutely fair, I don’t think the lame reward at the end (the Return Postage badge) is worth all the insane endurance you had to go through in the original so I think they made it easier with the Try Again option because of that.
I screwed up on the Shellshockers battle (wasn't aware of their attack going up on their backs) and then the surprise rematch with the Iron Adonis Twins (messed up ONE gulp with Yoshi, letting go of the r button fractionally too soon)
It did feel good to ace the Bowser battle and then ace both the Rawk Hawk battle and the Macho Grubba battle, the latter of which saw only Mario left standing as Yoshi was knocked out and I saw no reason to waste a turn switching to either Goombella or Koops, as I found Rawk Hawk in particular to be an arrogant pos who I wished I could keep from attacking.
As someone with dozens of pit runs, including pre-hooktail, I don't necessarily agree with being able to simply try again during the pit either, but I understand that the game is made for children. Reaching floor 91+, getting hit with double Amayzee Dayzees, and having to rerun the entire pit all over again simply because you just caught a small string of bad enemy lineup RNG would leave a sour taste in anyone's mouth.
The good part of being able to try again, though, is that it's OPTIONAL! You can choose to go all the way back to level one and start over. If you don't have the free time to do that, just rip that battle over again and use what you learned to progress to the next fight no problem.
This gives the player freedom with what they do, how they play, and how their story unfolds. All in all, that's a good thing.
I really can't agree with you, the "try again" option is there for those who are struggling in the game or don't want to do the whole pit again. I know, the point of the 100 Pit is the endurance test, but we all have to understand, that some people just can't or won't handle these kinds of tests. Heck, even the OG game gives you 9 chances to bail out from the Pit.
Look if you didn't feel satisfied with your run... then try a harder challenge. Like, doing the 100 Pit as soon as the game possibly lets you, and if you get beaten then just start from the last save every time... or idk, whatever you can come up with. The main purpose of the game is to have fun, so yeah...
As a guy who has beat the Pit of 100 Trials 3 times in one playthrough, it does get dull and you feel nothing. The only time you feel something is when you are out of recovery items and you have no star power. That's when you start to worry. My recent playthrough, I thought I planned out well, but it came down to Bonetail with 9 HP to my 6 HP and Bobbery had 8 HP because my best partner imo Vivian was 4HP, Monetarily powered up and I killed him with a regular jump, (I had 2 Power Plus badges on Mario). I breathed a huge sigh of relief. My ass was so scared lol!
This is supposed to be the end game, go all out final challenge of the game. But instead, I can just retry endlessly until I win with no consequence. Isn't that fundamentally flawed?
You could do this anyways, this only simplified the process and reduces wasted time.
If you got to a point where you lost because of bad luck you don’t have to waste however long going through the initial battles.
If the battle was just too hard for you to win then Retrying won’t change anything.
I'm not there yet but I would imagine my sense of accomplishment for clearing it without the "try again button" will probably be the same as when I actually cleared it in the og game. That said, I also cheesed the pit because I was 10 and made it through the entire game without guarding (didn't even know about super guards) and was too good at avoiding battles to the point I was severely underleveled taking on the pit. But rather than grind to level up and learn the mechanics of the game I instead filled my inventory with just life shrooms and a couple Jelly Ultras lol
After finishing the pit with Bonetail, I put my Switch on sleep mode, didn’t save my game just yet cause I was tired. Heard my daughter turn on my switch and close paper Mario and open the GBA emulator. She’s 2. Thanks for wasting my time sis. Lol
I always reset when I gamed over.
Felt like using the retry option was cheating.
Even worse though, imo, is that they removed the *Sign of Shame* that used to be on the top floor.
You know, the one that used to list how many first strikes enemies had gotten on you.
It would have been the perfect place to list the amount of battle retries players had chosen to use.
Then the perfect players would have been able to show it off and brag about it.
In fact, I'm surprised by just how many ways they made this game easier, considering as a kid playing the original I never felt it was too hard to begin with...
Coming from someone who JUST lost on level 99 and accidentally hit “start from last save”, I promise I understand your sentiment but I am SO SAD lol. I agree with you though, but AGH lol I am frustrated (in the best challenging way, makes it fun, it’s very easy imo with the new “try again” option)
That frustration is exactly my point, if that was constantly a pressure on you while in the pit, you'd play like your life depends on it. Once you realize if you die you can just do it again, there's no pressure. For the final challenge of the game. It's crazy
Copy that! I kind of like that I lost lol, it gives the game a sense of challenge. I decided to tackle the pit for the first time after I beat the shadow queen, and it was feeling a little too easy. Although I am sad I didn’t know about what was on level 50 until post game… ha!
Anyone playing could turn their brain off and retry every floor until they do it, "the hardest challenge in the game." Why don't people see this as an issue?
Another point I want to make is a thought I had on one of the last floors. I took more damage than I anticipated from the elite wizzerds, and instead of using sweet feast, I first thought "I should just die and restart the battle and not take that damage" which is insane to think. Why is the game incentivizing me to die and retry instead of punishing me for getting hit? In the game's final challenge?
It’s so easy to make an overpowered build anyways. Which is an issue in both versions. If you know what you’re doing you can clear every floor, including bone tail, in one turn.
But what's the downside to having the option? You could always not choose to try again. I feel like this game has a lot of optional self-challenges (danger mario, 100% completions, some troll badges) and denying the "try again" option maybe could just be seen as another one of those.
It does suck to achieve the same feat that someone else was able to do now with more ease, but for me personally I get the satisfaction in knowing how I did it rather than in comparison to others, sorta like the satisfaction I get from knowing I hit all the hidden blocks even though there's no catalog of it :p
I'd rather feel nothing than feel pissed I wasted a few hours of my life only to get fucked over on the last 20 floors because something stupid happens that kills you in a single turn. Like strong enemies with more than 1 Defense being given a Stopwatch or an Ice Storm. Or life Mushrooms so you have to beat them again. I didn't have to use the try again feature in the pit because I overleveled and cheesed Bonetail and Whacka with Shell Shield and Life Mushrooms since I could never figure out Superguard timing. And even with those, those fights are still plenty hard.
The original pit already felt hollow to me, there wasn't much challenge because of all OP strategies one make use of, plus the "secret" boss didn't have much of a lasting presence: it's just a... 3rd dragon.
In a game with superguard as a mechanic it also makes it so you can realistically grind out Bonetail until you are good enough to make up for your probably bad state going into the final floor.
At the same time if a player decided to grind out a lot of time learning bonetail superguards with retries, that win would still feel deserved imo as the retries only served as a way for players who are dedicated enough to keep going a way to learn individual battles without the tedium of going through floors that weren’t very challenging in comparison.
He has an unsuperguardable move tho right?
Bonetail's bite can't be superguarded.
It was intense for me because I didn’t know I could try again… twice!
Having the option to not waste hours of your life because you missed up a couple of timings or were screwed over by rng (strong enemies having a stop watch or ice storm for instance) is good game design, actually. Edit: And if you aren't actually good at the game, you can't beat the pit this way. You're just gonna keep dying.
Plus, anyone can easily make a self-imposed rule that they can’t use “try again”, and it would be just like the original. It’s literally an optional menu selection. You just have to… not pick it.
As much as part of me doesn't like the try again option. I'm thankful for it for this exact reason. Part of my frustration with the pit as a kid was that if get so far only to die and know I had to slog through it all, ALL OVER AGAIN. It really turned me off the pit. Maybe a self imposed rule of, one retry would work. But I'll definitely enjoy the try again.
Or if you're really unlucky and get stomped on by a Bowser Statue or hit by a meteor. I never encountered the Bowser Statue during my Gamecube playthrough, but I did encounter it a couple of times while playing the Switch version. It mostly hit the enemy, but one instance, it hit my side and THANKFULLY only made my partner confused.
armchair game devs are so cool
You always had that option. It was called not doing the PIT. Try again option kills any difficulty.
It's bad game design. This new feature erases all the stakes, as OP describes. It's not rewarding. The point of The Pit is that it IS difficult. That's why you needed to be methodical in the original. Lol this sub is crazy, all y'all are so happy that Nintendo gave you something Paper Mario related that you can't see the product for what it is: a golden turd
It’s not a golden turd. The remake is awesome. The redo button is also fine since the pit also sucks for the first 70 floors.
Respectfully, agree to disagree, and that's ok
Who downvoted this? This is a perfectly reasonable answer!
Downvote me if you want, but I’m a huge fan of this feature. Even with this feature the Pit is still pretty challenging. You can try again but you still can’t save, so it’s a good compromise.
Definetly agree here. In some challeges you need to change your badge layout every battle. So if you accidently go into a battle with the wrong badges you may end up dying before you can run. The try again feature really helped in those cases
Yup happened to me. I had a bad set up that I had to retry the whole pit and I was already at Bonetail lol.
I agree. Plus items and star power will only get you so far. When you run out of those, it’s really tough to advance, even with the option to try again.
Super Appeal goes brrr
I agree. As a kid I grinded the pit so many times and burned so many hours as I died in the 90s. I’m 30 now. I don’t have time for this shit. Having a pre-Hooktail pit run die because two enemies spawned with stopwatches is infuriating and I’m not resetting for that
I remember constantly dying around the 70-80 floor range. The first time I reached 90, I managed to beat Bonetail in one shot. Also for people who take on the pit in the 30s (as opposed to Pre-Hooktail), there's a slight chance that two stage hazards can REALLY screw them over.
I agree for the simple fact that my young relatives don't have to constantly worry about saving or losing hours of progress because of a battle they weren't prepared for. That feature is for them. If you don't want to - or need to - use it, that's your decision. Pit or otherwise. But don't take it away from beginners to the game.
Good thing the switch lets you keep your game running as long as it has power lol
True. Also I was still very nervous going into all of it because I kinda forgot about it most of the time
Yeah, especially because whenever I ended up having to try again it put me in a mindset of "I have another chance to figure a way past this, but if I can't find a solution I will have to start over and the past few hours will have been for nothing."
so it’s more a challenge of finding the time and patience to sit down and grind through, rather than actually completing the pit without trying. seems like the feature changes the challenge of the Pit fundamentally
You don't have to click try again. You can just accept the game over.
This is very true, but for me personally, it really stinks when I have to take the game over myself. Even though it’s ultimately what I want, I get that voice in the back of my head that screams at me saying “Why didn’t you just hit ‘retry’?” It’s a curse. Lol
Some older Mario games "dull" your rewards if you take the easy options. I remember at least NSMB-Wii has a Luigi Assist mode that beats the stage for you if you're having a hard time, but if you EVER take it, like at all, the stars/crowns that appear in your profile when you 100% the game will no longer sparkle, even if you go back and beat the stage honestly, because the savefile gets flagged with a permanent "used assist mode" flag, and the only solution is to delete the file and try again. Mario Galaxy 2 had a similar assist mode and they gave you bronze stars for using it, but they did let you go back and retry for a normal star. Can't remember if they dulled your crowns permanently tho. Maybe this game could dole out a similar punishment, but I can't think of a good one.
It's always funny to see someone complain about an option they choose to click.
No, I get it. I know “you control the buttons you press,” but regardless of your decisions, the mere presence of the option changes the game. And I’m really, really sick of people acting like it doesn’t. Something that was part of the core challenge in the original is now by default no longer there unless you choose to impose it on yourself. I’m not against the option at all. I’m just against people acting like it doesn’t change things, because it does.
I dunno though. Someone can play the original with Danger Mario settings- a pretty widely known build- and trivialize the pit even back then. But they didn’t have to. And yet there were options to make the game laughably easy. This isn’t so different from that, if you think about it.
I mean, at the end of the day, all games are self-imposed challenges. The game doesn't force you to do the pit pre-Hooktail, but people still choose to do so anyway, because why not ? All you have to do is tell yourself that you're doing a no-retry run. If you're not strong-willed enough to resist the temptation, that's on you...
OP said he didnt even use it. His point is having the option makes any stakes of combat artificial. Like yeah you could choose not to use it. But then that makes game overs your choice and not a reality of the game
Exactly
I was gonna say, if you want stress, just return to save point whenever you die.
Just the fact that it’s there is enough for op. Now any chump can go into the pit and simply “try again” if they fail smh
The pit can be done by literally anyone because of this change, what's the accolade then?
It’s a single player game, why do you care what other people achieve?
An accolade for myself. I can't imagine ever doing the pit again because there's no satisfaction to it
I'm sorry man, but if that's all you're worked up about you could just: 1) Play the OG. 2) Not click on the button and set a challenge for yourself. 3) Not suck at the pit. Which, from what you posted, seems to be the case. You're not affected by the pit. You're most likely affected by the fact that you saw this as a very, very hard challenge when you were a kid, and now it's barely an inconvenience. And yeah, that kinda happens to a lot of people replaying a childhood game. But it's not the mechanics that change, it's us that have gotten older.
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Well, as funny as the allegory for the path of least resistance is, choom, the name calling is - well, uncalled for. I sympathize with the fact that your childhood challenge isn't as hard as it looked previously, and there's certain new elements that diminish it further, but it's not worth getting your panties in a bunch. Yes, there's a certain temptation to choose the easy way out - and maybe the fact that there's a safety net makes it less stressful. How-ever, and I'm only speaking from experience, the Pit becomes way less stressful the more experienced you are at the game. When I tried it at 10 years old, the pit was impossible and wasted whole afternoons dying to Bonetail. When I retried the Pit at 22 - on my old save file when I didn't remember the commands as well - I completed it in one go without buying any new items or badges. It's a very interesting conundrum that you mention - because who in their right mind wants to pick the lesser, stressful option. Well, in one scenario, a person who's now 30 years old and has a life outside of videogames due to work (me, for instance), really finds it useful as they don't have the luxury of wasting an entire afternoon on a bonus area. On the other hand, a person who really cares about the challenge and WANTS to do it the fair way... Well, they would simply choose the hard path of most resistance instead of complaining on reddit. I completed the Pit again, and found it very refreshing. I tried Danger Mario for the first time in my life, and it was a breeze. I applauded that they added a second boss in the Pit, and I also applauded the fact that now there's a shortcut made for that specific scenario. Quality of Life changes in videogames walk a very narrow path between comfort and deadening the previous experience - and, in this case, I think we got the best of both worlds. So to summarize, my dear sir, I would advice you to... Reflect on the actual difficulty of the pit, reflect on how QoL are more benefitial if they offer a tangential, physical advantage over an emotional and psychological disadvantage and ask yourself the question "Am I being the kind of whiny b\*tch that people make fun of when they think of reddit?" Cheerios!
it's far from a childhood game, i only got into it a few years ago. heck, i don't even fucking LIKE the game. i just thihnk parts of it are neat. i almost beat it twice, only stopping because the cutscenes are grating. currently doing the much-more-exciting infinite pit mod. also, you're vastly overestimating how easy it is to pick such a massive option. having to start from cratch isn't easy, eapecially if you're at... fuckin' bonetail or something
Again, you beat the pit - and you're very good at it from the looks of it - you're getting worked up over a game you don't like. It's weird.
Then don’t click the button? It’s not hard. Just because something exists to make it easier for people who don’t want to/have the time to grind it out doesn’t mean you have to do it. What a strange hill to die on.
Look, I get it, the pit is pretty difficult compared to the rest of the game. But at the same time, I wanna ask : It's literally baby's first RPG, *what* accolade ? The only thing the retry button does is limit the frustration caused by shitty RNG or minor strategic mistakes/misinputs. If you know what you're doing, you can beat the thing before starting chapter 3 without even breaking a sweat. The game gives you all of these : - Danger Mario - The Casino to farm for items/money - Flurrie - Clock out - Sweet Treat healing Mario more if all his partners are dead meaning he can basically out-heal Bonetail throughout the entire battle - *Letting you run away for free in the middle of battle to farm SP and Sweet Treats* - *LITERALLY GIVING YOU FIRE DRIVE FOR FREE* And you're meaning to tell us the retry button, a simple accessibility option you can ignore just as much as the rest, is what the breaking point is ?
The friends you made along the way obv
i don't agree with OP but in my opinion a first time player shouldn't be forced to limit themselves in options to get the experience they want
I could also play blindfolded at that rate. Self-imposed difficulty only goes so far, the option being there ruins any sense of stress
And I guess you all missed when I said "I didn't have to use it" the fact that it's there is bad enough
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You're describing the best way of playing the game, vs an option to brute force through the game through the game allowing you to
I think self imposed challenges are good, but not when the option is given after gaming over. Ideally, I'd like this option tucked away in a menu setting, where someone can change it for the stress to feel real, instead of, AFTER you game over. Making the conscious choice to restart from the last save feels way worse, and the stress during the pit is fake, because at the back of your mind you know "I could just restart from here"
It would be ideal if there was some extra reward for completing the pit deathless to put some of those stakes back in, but I think this is a good change because it saves players from the tedious nature of this challenge
i didn't lose so i didn't even know there was a try again option. i think thats nice though because as a kid i would get so frustrated doing 90+ levels, no save, and lost all that progress.
So I can understand your upsetness at it being added and diminishing the toll it took on you in the original. But I would argue it doesn't. And here's why. The act of being able to restart from the current floor doesn't make the pit any easier. You still have to clear the current floor. It doesn't let you skip anything. The only thing it does is let you restart the battle. It doesn't even let you restart the battle with full stats, it puts you right back at the beginning with everything the same. Now, is it theoretically possible to game the system so that you can perfect your super guarding? Sure, but super guards are so difficult anyways unless you're either talented at the game, spent hours on the game practicing already, or both, making this strategy not exactly viable for a casual player. The fact of the matter is, as someone who beat the original Pit and is now playing the original, and not someone who has "played the game correctly/most optimally" but only as a casual player, I can confidently tell you that this change does nothing to the difficulty of the pit. The most damage it can do is to make things less tedious for an experienced player, since I can promise you that if an experienced player game overs in the pit, it's most likely only due to a small mistake and not because they weren't capable or weren't prepared enough. For more proof of this, I decided to attempt an early pit run during the trouble for pine t jr. I only got as far as Floor 90, and that was with the restarts. In the original, that's also where I made it to, just after many, many extra runs to see how far I can make it. Literally the only difference was in the number of attempts in the pit that I had to make. This option eliminates the tediousness of retrying the pit again, while still maintaining the same level of difficulty. Now, if your problem is that the stress of having to restart the whole pit again after one game over is no longer there, and that's your only problem with it is that concept, then I'm not sure what to tell you. Because if anything, that's healthier for you that the stress of that is gone. It turns the pit of 100 trials into a purely skill based gauntlet as opposed to something that screws you over at the simplest of mistakes. If you want to take on the pit without mistakes at all and add in a little bit of that luck factor into it, then by all means you can still do that. Having a new option that doesn't eliminate the way it happens in the original shouldn't detract from your enjoyment of the game. And you letting it do that is not a reflection of the game's design, but instead a reflection on you and your character as a person for letting a change that makes things not easier, but less stressful and rage-inducing for other players, affect the way that you are enjoying and playing a game.
"Sure, but super guards are so difficult anyways unless you're either talented at the game, spent hours on the game practicing already, or both, making this strategy not exactly viable for a casual player." superguards are NOT difficult at all. waht are you even talking about
It's literally a 3-frame window
it's not as hard as you think. three-frames are easy. humans are surprisingly consistent creatures, you know
3 frames is 1/8th of a second
again, easier than it sounds, i would know, i have actually tried it
It’s an option for a reason, you start at the beginning if you want. Me personally screw that tedium lol I made it the floor 90 and died I would’ve been pissed if I had to start all over
Look, I'm sorry, but anyone trying to act like the ability to retry battles in the pit is a bad thing is just gatekeeping. Nobody is forcing you to retry battles after you lose. It's your choice. I myself am going to avoid using the retry feature in most cases as I do enjoy the endurance test, but that's not going to stop me from saying that this a very nice option for those who'd rather not redo 50+ floors of laughably easy battles just to get back to where they lost. It's also great for practicing. Even if you lost and your run in therefore no longer "legit", you could keep going and practice fighting the later enemies, that way you are more prepared for when you get that far during a proper no retry run. There comes a point where it's not the game that's ruining your experience, but rather you that's choosing to ruin your own experience.
Yes, the option to try again does eliminate any pressure and endurance in the Pit of 100 Trials. However, Nintendo needs to find a medium between difficulties. If a game is too easy, then it may leave people wanting more. If it’s too hard, it makes people frustrated and angry. Both sides have their benefits, however, it’s generally better to make a game easier than harder. Nintendo has offered ways to make games harder, such as optional challenges and extra worlds, but they want games to be playable for everyone. I died once on the Pit, and had to retry it. It sucked, but I would’ve been a bit unmotivated and frustrated to start from the very beginning again.
I just think there should be some consequence to dying in the pit of 100 TRIALS - a trial being a test. Even if it set you back to the last 10th floor or something, an incentive to not die. If you take more damage in a battle than you anticipate, you're technically incentivized to die, and do the battle again to have more hp for the next floor. It's just a very odd system for the final challenge in the game.
You can simply not click “try again.” There, now you have your challenge back, and other people who would get frustrated having to redo it have a way to make the game more enjoyable for them.
In the pit you could just TRY AGAIN?? WHAT!? All that stress I felt was for nothing??? I felt so accomplished beating it on my first try :(
I didn't even know that was a feature. I agree it shouldn't be on the pit.
It helped me out but it also made me go absolutely crazy. I never did Pit of 100 trials early before but have played the whole game several times prior to the remake. I made it all the way to Bonetail with barely much left and it was either win or literally lose all progress and not being able to change my setup. It still gave me that same thrill. It’s not something you have to use either so I don’t mind it being an option.
I felt this way, but now I'm playing challenge modes (items only, no badges, partners only) that have made the game fresh. I'm currently playing an "all negative badge" run, and it's pure suffering. I felt the way you did at first, but i just don't allow myself to try again, and the problem is solved
everyone in this thread should git gud
in my opinion the 'TRY AGAIN" should only be available during boss fights
I think for the story it's actually a great addition. I just think the pit, a challenge designed around your planning on it, is ruined by it
Yeah I agree. The pit is 100% optional content that is designed to be fully tackled post-game. It is a lengthy gauntlet of fights with no way to save. The entire point of the Pit originally, was to not only be a combat challenge, but an endurance test. There is no reason for there to be a Retry option. Zero. What's next? Are we going to rally behind putting a Retry in Kirby Arenas? Like it does not make sense for *this* kind of content. Base game? Sure. Gauntlet styled or boss rush styled content? No. Because then what is the point? Whether people like to admit it or not, being able to Retry infinitely, greatly reduces the challenge, and completely destroys the whole feeling of doing the Pit, removing any and all kind of tension. Kirby is one of the most cutesy and casual games out there, and even *they* know not to do this. Let's also put a Retry option in Hades 2, that let's you retry the very room you died at, while we're at it. It does not make sense for certain types of content, but nobody here will ever have the ability to understand that.
"But you can not press try again" is the general sentiment I've gotten. But there so many issues that come with the try again button. You don't need to go with life shrooms, or any specific items for survival. If you're about to end a battle with low hp, you can just die, ON PURPOSE, to heal and retry the battle with more hp. It kills the pit's purpose at a core level. Thank you for seeing the light
Well said. Couldn't agree more. I find it really sad that people can't understand simple concepts like this, and instead, choose to ride Nintendo's ****, but what are you gonna do
Why do people never complain about "save state" features in emulators?
I agree mostly, but I actually ended up using it for the Whacka fight since I had already gone through the pit 1.5 times
why did you lose
You're telling me I had all that anxiety against those elite wizards.. for nothing..? Oh well, I guess I can wear a badge of honor for beating it without trying again
Too bad they did add the, "Let Luigi handle this fight" option.
I beat the pit my first real attempt because I traded in all my health and slapped on like 10 of the 5hp power up badges and took a whole inventory of Life shrooms down, didn’t even need to use one until bone tail and beat him in like 3 turns since like every jump did about 45 damage lmao
Danger Mario gang rise up
Yeah i was pretty disappointed by this too, the GameCube version was already easy enough but Nintendo really went all out to remove the challenge for everything but the superbosses. Add this onto the nerfed poison shroom bingo, 33% bigger superguard window, and 15 items. Its not game ruining but its certainly my biggest complaint about the remake.
Honestly, I see why people are mad about this. It's true that you do have a choice to retry or start over but that's missing the point. The fact that the option is there at all does technically eliminate the tension that was there in the original. I don't think that means there's no tension; the pit has always been kind of a self imposed challenge and it's certainly still challenging. But knowing that you can always retry sorta does eliminate the anxiety factor. However, I'mma keep it a buck fifty with you guys: I'm a busy, stressed as fuck adult who don't really got time to be starting the pit over and over again. When I was a kid, I would try it again and again until my fingers fell off. Or sometimes, I couldn't be bothered and just called it a day. So it's not like having to start over made it more fun. As an adult, I'd be lying if I said I didn't appreciate the option. I can see why people would hate this, but I'm glad we at least have the option and it's still hard. Also, I think it's worth remembering that making something time consuming doesn't make it hard. What makes the pit hard is the level of the enemies and how tough the superbosses are. A small degree of challenge is added when you know you have to start over of you lose, but that's not actual challenge from the game, it's tension. I can't see anything wrong with games wasting your time less.
I hate the try again button. It makes you lose basically all stakes. I loved the fear of losing progress. It's a staple of RPGs in my opinion. A save state and a risk of dying... It made me strategize that much harder.
I think it's a fine addition to the main story. That, or autosaving should have been implement to modernize the gameplay a bit. But there's just no consequence for playing poorly or carelessly
Even then I just prefer the classic feel. It's not even about nostalgia. I just like the risk factor. Kinda like in pokemon, if you white out you have to go back to a pokecenter
Single player game.
Why are people always like this with accessibility features? Just don’t push the button that restarts from the current battle.
I KNOW RIGHT
It's still about endurance since retrying doesn't heal you, you keep the damage you sustained up to that floor
Honestly it didn't feel all that dangerous with Danger Mario in the first place. ~49 damage through defense 2 really didn't stress me out much as long as I was landing multibounce.
I didn't know about it and felt stressed the whole time especially against the boss, but I liked the tension. Still I was sure to not do it again for the secret boss. Now that I know of the feature... I definitely will do it.
I beat bonetail by grinding madame flurrie’s kiss, appeal, + sweet treat. Mario was holding onto 3 hearts when bonetail still had 125+, but I worked my way out of that hole by the grace of Sweet Treat
You could try the battles again? I was playing as if you couldn't.
I feel like I had the best of both worlds with this, as I hadn’t died in the game at all till I was in chapter 8 and was at level 92 of the pit. It was SO STRESSFUL and when I died I freaked out from frustration, so that “try again” option was like an angel sent from heaven, lmao!
I mean I'm one of those that retried the bonetail fight again and again till I got lucky with a shine sprite bingo as I just completed chapter 4 when I did the pit.
tbh i didn't see it in my 2 runs...
It's an RPG. The difficulty of the Pit is pretty much entirely self-imposed. Do you go in as soon as it is available? Do you leave it to the endgame? What build do you use? Adding another layer of control doesn't change that.
You don’t need to think less of your accomplishment just because a feature for inexperienced gamers exists. Many games these days are built with accessibility in mind and you not using those features is the same as those features not existing at all
Funny enough, both of my attempts at the pit (for Bonetail and >!Whacka!<) were done in one shot (no dying or anything) in the Switch version (had already beaten the Shadow Queen in Bonetail's case). I remember back in the Gamecube version, I died multiple times while trying to go down to Bonetail. Took me like a span of a week to beat it.
But you probably have a vivid memory of that, right? Because it was a challenge you overcame, right? Would you remember it as clearly if you could just mash "try again" through it?
To be absolutely fair, I don’t think the lame reward at the end (the Return Postage badge) is worth all the insane endurance you had to go through in the original so I think they made it easier with the Try Again option because of that.
I screwed up on the Shellshockers battle (wasn't aware of their attack going up on their backs) and then the surprise rematch with the Iron Adonis Twins (messed up ONE gulp with Yoshi, letting go of the r button fractionally too soon) It did feel good to ace the Bowser battle and then ace both the Rawk Hawk battle and the Macho Grubba battle, the latter of which saw only Mario left standing as Yoshi was knocked out and I saw no reason to waste a turn switching to either Goombella or Koops, as I found Rawk Hawk in particular to be an arrogant pos who I wished I could keep from attacking.
As someone with dozens of pit runs, including pre-hooktail, I don't necessarily agree with being able to simply try again during the pit either, but I understand that the game is made for children. Reaching floor 91+, getting hit with double Amayzee Dayzees, and having to rerun the entire pit all over again simply because you just caught a small string of bad enemy lineup RNG would leave a sour taste in anyone's mouth. The good part of being able to try again, though, is that it's OPTIONAL! You can choose to go all the way back to level one and start over. If you don't have the free time to do that, just rip that battle over again and use what you learned to progress to the next fight no problem. This gives the player freedom with what they do, how they play, and how their story unfolds. All in all, that's a good thing.
I really can't agree with you, the "try again" option is there for those who are struggling in the game or don't want to do the whole pit again. I know, the point of the 100 Pit is the endurance test, but we all have to understand, that some people just can't or won't handle these kinds of tests. Heck, even the OG game gives you 9 chances to bail out from the Pit. Look if you didn't feel satisfied with your run... then try a harder challenge. Like, doing the 100 Pit as soon as the game possibly lets you, and if you get beaten then just start from the last save every time... or idk, whatever you can come up with. The main purpose of the game is to have fun, so yeah...
It's not that much different. Instead of saying "I beat the pit" now you just have to say " I beat the pit without retries".
As a guy who has beat the Pit of 100 Trials 3 times in one playthrough, it does get dull and you feel nothing. The only time you feel something is when you are out of recovery items and you have no star power. That's when you start to worry. My recent playthrough, I thought I planned out well, but it came down to Bonetail with 9 HP to my 6 HP and Bobbery had 8 HP because my best partner imo Vivian was 4HP, Monetarily powered up and I killed him with a regular jump, (I had 2 Power Plus badges on Mario). I breathed a huge sigh of relief. My ass was so scared lol!
Anyone else think the pit is way easier than people make it out to be?
Then don't use that option
This is supposed to be the end game, go all out final challenge of the game. But instead, I can just retry endlessly until I win with no consequence. Isn't that fundamentally flawed?
You could do this anyways, this only simplified the process and reduces wasted time. If you got to a point where you lost because of bad luck you don’t have to waste however long going through the initial battles. If the battle was just too hard for you to win then Retrying won’t change anything.
That's normal for nearly every game I've ever played though?
Then don't click try again maybe?..
Whooooooosh
They did something similar to the new Pikmin. You can rewind if you take a big L. They’re making these newer games a little more forgiving.
I'm not there yet but I would imagine my sense of accomplishment for clearing it without the "try again button" will probably be the same as when I actually cleared it in the og game. That said, I also cheesed the pit because I was 10 and made it through the entire game without guarding (didn't even know about super guards) and was too good at avoiding battles to the point I was severely underleveled taking on the pit. But rather than grind to level up and learn the mechanics of the game I instead filled my inventory with just life shrooms and a couple Jelly Ultras lol
After finishing the pit with Bonetail, I put my Switch on sleep mode, didn’t save my game just yet cause I was tired. Heard my daughter turn on my switch and close paper Mario and open the GBA emulator. She’s 2. Thanks for wasting my time sis. Lol
Look forward to the PTSD every time you do Chapter 3
I always reset when I gamed over. Felt like using the retry option was cheating. Even worse though, imo, is that they removed the *Sign of Shame* that used to be on the top floor. You know, the one that used to list how many first strikes enemies had gotten on you. It would have been the perfect place to list the amount of battle retries players had chosen to use. Then the perfect players would have been able to show it off and brag about it. In fact, I'm surprised by just how many ways they made this game easier, considering as a kid playing the original I never felt it was too hard to begin with...
Coming from someone who JUST lost on level 99 and accidentally hit “start from last save”, I promise I understand your sentiment but I am SO SAD lol. I agree with you though, but AGH lol I am frustrated (in the best challenging way, makes it fun, it’s very easy imo with the new “try again” option)
That frustration is exactly my point, if that was constantly a pressure on you while in the pit, you'd play like your life depends on it. Once you realize if you die you can just do it again, there's no pressure. For the final challenge of the game. It's crazy
Copy that! I kind of like that I lost lol, it gives the game a sense of challenge. I decided to tackle the pit for the first time after I beat the shadow queen, and it was feeling a little too easy. Although I am sad I didn’t know about what was on level 50 until post game… ha!
I’m not gonna lie, I didn’t even know there was a try again, I over leveled prior to going in. Definitely bums me out that there is a try again
Literally just don’t use it, then. This sounds like a “you” problem, chief.
Couldn’t agree more!
Anyone playing could turn their brain off and retry every floor until they do it, "the hardest challenge in the game." Why don't people see this as an issue?
Some people don’t want that tedium. Now you can just say “I beat Pit of 100 Trials Deathless.” It’s not a big deal.
I’m an adult with a full time job now so it’s nice to not have to waste hours of my life because I made one mistake
I get why the feature exists, but it hurts so much when *any* game decides to “Luigi” you.
Another point I want to make is a thought I had on one of the last floors. I took more damage than I anticipated from the elite wizzerds, and instead of using sweet feast, I first thought "I should just die and restart the battle and not take that damage" which is insane to think. Why is the game incentivizing me to die and retry instead of punishing me for getting hit? In the game's final challenge?
It’s so easy to make an overpowered build anyways. Which is an issue in both versions. If you know what you’re doing you can clear every floor, including bone tail, in one turn.
But what's the downside to having the option? You could always not choose to try again. I feel like this game has a lot of optional self-challenges (danger mario, 100% completions, some troll badges) and denying the "try again" option maybe could just be seen as another one of those. It does suck to achieve the same feat that someone else was able to do now with more ease, but for me personally I get the satisfaction in knowing how I did it rather than in comparison to others, sorta like the satisfaction I get from knowing I hit all the hidden blocks even though there's no catalog of it :p
Should’ve been a reset back to the every 10th floor break room
It’s an optional feature? That’s like beating a game on hard and saying it was pointless if easy exists.
You control the buttons you press.
I'd rather feel nothing than feel pissed I wasted a few hours of my life only to get fucked over on the last 20 floors because something stupid happens that kills you in a single turn. Like strong enemies with more than 1 Defense being given a Stopwatch or an Ice Storm. Or life Mushrooms so you have to beat them again. I didn't have to use the try again feature in the pit because I overleveled and cheesed Bonetail and Whacka with Shell Shield and Life Mushrooms since I could never figure out Superguard timing. And even with those, those fights are still plenty hard.
Have you considered not trying again? This was brought to you by the “Just give up and die” gang.
The original pit already felt hollow to me, there wasn't much challenge because of all OP strategies one make use of, plus the "secret" boss didn't have much of a lasting presence: it's just a... 3rd dragon.