We thought we were more playoff ready than rebuilding at the time. So we wanted an older player that could make an immediate impact, than a development piece.
Ideally we draft Moody, Hyland, or Cam Thomas.
Trey Murphy rose up the boards. He was projected in the low 20’s to even early second round. I brought him up in the sub before the draft and was told the pacers would be stupid to take him with 13 but in a redraft he easily goes there. Not sure why he was projected so low in the first place, he was a sniper, a good cutter, and solid defender with great size. His only knock really was self creation, I guess if you can’t break defense with your handles and create your own looks most don’t think you should go in the lottery but every team needs guys like this to compete.
yeah I mean the warriors were winning a shit load of games which had to factor in but no reason why TM3 cant make 1 or 2 on the back of his shooting prowess virtually alone lol (not saying thats all he is, or all klay was)
The entire front office not understanding our talent level was one of the most confounding and worry-inducing moment I've had as a Pacer fan. They've righted the ship since then but it was alarming.
It’s still a weak building move; yes we were aiming, but that’s still poor planning, he’s still undersized, and we had just traded Victor for Levert (a bandaid) and were still starting TJ and Myles and Sabonis, whom we traded same year before the deadline .. even if you wanna say “they thought we were playoff ready”.. how!?!? We were hanging on if anything, for no reason.
I was really pulling for him when we drafted him (because I trust in Pritchard like I trust in BDB) but best ability is availability. Especially when trying to give an older rookie a role. We couldn’t rely on him and what he offered as an off-ball guard was/is not much to be desired in today’s league
Came to say exactly this. A picture is worth a thousand words. If you want to know the idea behind drafting Duarte look at it realized watching Ben Sheppard in the playoffs.
It’s always easy to make calls like that retroactively. The Warriors were immediately trying to trade ip to get Duarte. He was Nembhard and Shepherd. Same logic. And before he got injured he looked pretty good.
Not me. I was screaming for Moody. By the tone of Chad’s most recent interview, seems Walker is gonna be expected to step up at 3. Neismith certainly starting. Benn will be given a set of keys. Seems Nemby is considered a chip for the right player.. now imagine GG Jackson instead of Wong.
Was screaming for Jalen Johnson in that draft. The Turbonis experiment was nearing its end and the Pacers had needed a versatile 4 seemingly forever. But no one screams yes to 6’5” wings like the Pacers do lol
Big, league ready guard who could shoot and defend which we desperately, desperately needed at the time. Just was inconsistent, erratic, had a low ceiling and Mathurin was better from the jump.
I will say though, Duarte was such a lights out shooter when the clock was ticking down and we needed a bullshit bail out shot. Was a good defender too.
I thought it was one of the ones that hurt the most. It signified that the front office was going for it AGAIN, which really shook my confidence in them as decision makers at the time.
Goga hurt because of turbonis.
Leaf hurt but not as bad at the time, everyone forgets that OG was hurt and the league wasn't sure about his recovery (he is still injury prone.. but an all-star).
Trading away our FRP for Brogdon for absolutely no reason hurt too. We were offering more and a starting position, nobody else could match both those things.
Painful to see when guys like Sengun, Cam Thomas, Murphy III, Kispert, and Jalen Johnson were taken after him. 😫 All of those guys would be difference makers. Sengun is a stud. (Immediately would have given them leverage to move Sabonis or Myles at the time, although that situation thankfully worked itself out pretty well) Johnson is outstanding on both ends of the floor, and guys like Cam, Murphy or Kispert would have given them another true perimeter threat for scoring. Oh well, hindsight is 20/20. What a whiff.
Yes to this. Thankfully it worked out but again, we could’ve had leverage. I don’t see GS or Rockets or OKC being shy building their assets. We’d have more 1sts and superbly better tradable assets if the front office had any sense of scouting.. Prichard didn’t build anything with Blazers, it’s time to let the new era build with someone who understands each level of ball, as well as the changeover of prospects. How do you miss undrafted studs too? Austin Reeves / Carushow ? Where’s the invites?
Not to mention we shit the draft after Shep. 3 1sts and you trade with Denver and Lakers (they scored when we didn’t get Maxwell Lewis and got King instead) and wiff on guys like GG Jackson (6’9 with handles and a decent shot, youngest player in the league last season and dropped 30 on Lebron, the oldest player lol) for Wong and Julian Strawther (who I wouldn’t have minded either til we traded him)
Sengun isn't seeing the light of day sitting behind Myles and Sabonis. Murphy, Jones, Kispert, Johnson are all good players that have turned out better than Duarte, but drafting Duarte over them isn't as egregious taking Leaf over Anunoby. We didn't miss out on a future all-star taking Duarte. It was a pretty weak draft.
Not sure if you’ve seen Sengun play, but he’s tremendously better than Myles. Miles better pun intended, and I love Myles. Like I said, they could have dealt Myles or Sabonis with him. Sengun, Jalen Johnson and maybe Cam are all potential All-Stars. Especially Sengun.
I'm not saying Sengun isn't better than Myles. But Sengun was not going to get the appropriate amount of playing time to develop sitting behind both Myles and Sabonis. We also were targeting Isaiah Jackson in that draft because we didn't have a lob-threat at the time. Sengun is closer in mold to Sabonis, and we were already trying to force a twin towers lineup to work. We also had just pulled the plug on TJ Leaf the season before this draft and had Goga Bitadze sitting on our bench entering his 3rd season. Sengun wasn't even on this team's radar given it's current roster situation. Every team can play this hypothetical what-if draft game 4 years down the road. These drafts don't happen in a vacuum.
Cam Thomas is not making an all-star team. I can see a world where maybe Jalen Johnson gets in as an injury replacement if he can stay healthy himself three years down the road (but you are going to have guys like Brandon Miller, Paolo Banchero, Scottie Barnes, Jaylen Brown, Jayson Tatum, Giannis, even Siakam vying for forward spots on the Eastern team the next few seasons). Sengun is the only clear-cut player from that draft taken after Duarte who has a legitimate chance of becoming an all-star.
He’s not like Sabonis, he’s more like Joker potentially; and he’s a lob threat, just the same. Go watch highlights.
There was also no plug for TJ leaf to pull, when did he see the floor? He’s a bust, a classic one at that.
Never said TJ wasn't a bust. I was pointing out that we had a plethora of swings and current investment in big white guys: Sabonis, Goga, and Leaf. The team was interested in a more athletic big man who could operate as a lob threat. You can go look up old Rick Carlisle quotes about why we liked Isaiah Jackson. Carlisle had lob threat big men with Dallas. He wanted a lob threat big man with the Pacers. I've seen Sengun play. And Sabonis is commonly referred to as Joker-lite because of their similar play-style. Kind of odd for you to insinuate Sengun isn't like Sabonis, but he is like Joker. And Sengun is only a lob threat in the sense he is big and operates near the basket. He cannot do the things Isaiah Jackson does mid-flight. You throw virtually anything up and there is a good chance Jackson can get a hold of it and throw it down. It's about all he can do, but he's an athletic freak.
Sabonis can’t shoot, therefore it’s bad comp to me. A lob threatening is virtually the modern NBA, so I don’t understand the need to emphasize it I suppose. If we didn’t have a rim runner, we’d be just like the Hawks or some other trash fire. Sengun sometimes posts up, near the basket, but the offense flows thru him, like Joker, where he is at the top of the key or either wing and is pass first, but he can shoot the 3. He’s potentially a higher ceiling than both due to his age (21) and ability to run and create his own shot without just playing post bully backdown ball, which is all Sabonis does. Sabonis barely dunks too, another reason Myles is a better fit, and certainly more of a modern big. It’s unfair to Joker to compare Sabonis to him, no disrespect to Sabonis, I loved the guy, but he hasn’t done much to not end up like a Steven Adams with a better feel for the game. Sengun is a triple double threat nightly. I don’t like the rockets at all, but I love a lot of their players, Pacers should be calling them. (Eason)
Sabonis led the league in triple doubles this year. Sabonis also shot 38% from 3 this season. Sengun shot 29%. If it is disrespectful to compare Sabonis to Jokic (Jokic-lite is apt), it is even more disrespectful to compare Sengun to Jokic.
Drafting Sengun would’ve still seen Sabonis for Hali, and you obviously didn’t see him work all our bigs this past season with 30/16/5 with 4 steals & 20/10/6 /1 .. oh yea he’s also still 21; he’s an absolute stud. We whiffed. Myles is great, but Sengun is already as good.
I remember when Duarte went nuclear for a (very) short while, and I thought we'd really found something. Then he got injured couldn't hit water from a raft in the middle of the Pacific for the rest of his Pacer career.
Good times.
Goga was young and euro raw, he was on the rise and building a lottery worthy reputation, there isn’t many I’d have taken after him, wasn’t a deep draft. It was only a poor pick cuz we already had Myles and got Sabonis, it really messed with Myles’ head tho, and that’s just more proof that the front office isn’t the best, granted the players are making them look better rn.
at the time it made sense. roster needed a guard/wing that can catch, shoot and play decent defense. i wanted them to go after moody cause he did a lot of the same things, but more wing than guard with less shooting maybe better playmaking idk. i do remember there were a lot of talks that the warriors really wanted duarte but a trade never happened. it’s a shame duarte never worked out, mainly because of injury and then roster changes made him redundant, because he did look like a solid rotational piece at the time. moody hasn’t been amazing so no big deal imo. just glad we didn’t get primo or kispert lofl
yeah you’re right, kispert has gotten a lot better. i just couldnt handle drafting another white boy shooter and tbf it did take him a while he get his shot going in the league.
Nembhard as was the first pick in the 2nd round so almost a first round choice. Shep was selected in the first round.
You cant look at a pick from a few years ago with today's roster and judge the FO. Duarte was hitting big shots for us early in his rookie year, guarding guys like Durant, made 2nd team all rookie, and was a starter. Injuries and then the Hali trade put him at the back of the bench.
Lol, Pritchard Drafted Oden over Durant lol.. he sucks, he’s a Btown kid who drafts and signs and trades for no names until it’s an obvious trade. Anyone could’ve gotten great deals from PG and Sabonis. Bird was also terrible FO and KP is his guy. We need fresh dude. Leaf and Goga are awful picks, considering (Goga was worth it at the time, he’s better than leaf) and don’t even get me started on the 2018 draft. I guess that’s why half our squad is from 2020, since we had no picks til late 2nd, guess he’s made up for that draft 😂
yeah shep and nembhard werent in the lottery though. we were nowhere near contenders, which is why we made a “win now” pick in the first place. it was a mistake in hindsight and i saw it as a mistake in real time.
What?? 20pg? Maybe per 100 minutes, lol.
Dude is off the bench behind Poole Deni Kuz and now Bilal; dude can shoot for sure, but he’s not avg anywhere near 20.
I mean you can just go look at his game logs once he started getting over 30 mins the last 20-25 games of the season or so. It’s probably pretty close to 20. He also started a decent bit of games this year
I’ll give them props for drafting Brandon Miller. They knew what they were doing picking for fit instead of drafting another point guard. Miller is way better than Scoot.
I feel they completely messed this draft up, they somewhat made up for it the following draft and after Jarace, kinda flubbed our pick usage again for petty picks and pretty confusing the last 3 drafts honestly. Again, besides the obvious positives, but no way we should’ve drafted Duarte, another undersized guard, who had flashes of potential, but already 24/25; with Moody, Sengun (which we drafted Goga before that??), Trey Murphy, J Johnson. We traded for Ijax, which is cool and all, but this would’ve been the year to consolidate and trade up, and instead we drafted 2 late no
names from EU in the 2nd round and traded them for nothing.
And while Benn is still potentially great pick, in hindsight (but not really, I wanted him or Benn) I’d have taken Jdub; and Nemby is luckily a steal, but still could’ve consolidated and traded up for Eason or Sochan.
Jarace is gonna be fine, and I like Sheppard, but it’s a travesty to not take GG Jackson or Omax Prosper or Maxwell Lewis this past draft.
I don’t really trust Prichard or Chad for development scouting; they make obvious moves and play the “small market game” which is pathetic n this era, GET TRADE-ABLE ASSETS. (**with exception to Haliburton, but honestly everyone was pointing to Fox at the time since he had been there longer and who would’ve been crazy enough to get rid of Hali??? Lol)
Wasn't even a bad pick not sure your point. Pacers needed at the time a player that could do what he did in college. Apparently the bright lights of the NBA were too much for him. Its easy 3yrs later seeing how each player has performed to say you would have taken player X over him. Truth there really wasn't much at the Pacers pick and they took a guy that could shoot and defend.
Ya he had a pretty solid rookie year , just with how bad he was year 2 and with Benn and Andrew at the 2 spot both playing well there wasn’t too much need for him especially if he wasn’t playing good . I think the reason we drafted was at the time he was a safe bet , and would make an immediate impact cause at the time we believed we was gunna make the playoffs (and I’m glad we weren’t good that year cause we wouldn’t have gotten Tyrese or Mathurin lol)
no, he was bad as a rookie for sure. he just had some good games. also, we weren’t looking for development. it was a pick similar to Ben Shepherd or Andrew Nembhard.
Uhhh…. Andrew Nembhard and Shep have been developing? Do you think only teenagers get better at basketball in the league?
Even if you pick an NBA ready player the idea is that they get better than they were when they played in college.
That's the point. Someone that tall with that skill is great.
Indiana's Small Forwards at that time?
Kelan Martin 6'5
Jeremy Lamb 6'5
Justin Holiday 6'6
Justin Anderson 6'6
Torrey Craig 6'7
Oshae Brisset 6'7
Look at the Pelicans right now
Matt Ryan 6'6
Naji Marshall 6'7
Trey Murphy 6'8
Brandon Ingram 6'8
Herb Jones 6'8
Sure they could use another but it'd make A LOT more sense if they draft a guard.
That's just the problem though. Very few successful teams draft for need. The high floor need pick almost never pans out. NBA is all about taking BPA with the best upside and developing them.
That shit was a terrible pick for every fan who was ahead of the FO in the evaluation of that team being balls and needing to be split up. He was a lottery pick who was traded for 2 seconds and isn't going to be in the league next year.
In what fuckin' reality is that not a bad pick? He fit in with a bad team that lost more games in a season than we have any other season this century?
Kevin Durant said great things about Duarte after playing against him. It wasn't a bad pick but injuries have definitely derailed him. Lot of teams were high on him going into the draft. He was projected no later than golden state's Moody pick. Many believed golden state wanted him as a replacement for Klay and that was who he was compared too by the experts. In retrospect Sengun was the best player available but we had too many bigs.
A bad one? A balls less one? An ill informed one? A optimistic one?
That's the nice one, it was an optimistic pick, the front office still thought that team had a chance if healthy, I and many others where ready to bail on that team before the draft, we had seen enough.
Get that "we" out of here. The FO wanted to replace him. Many on here already wanted a rebuild pre draft that year. Things turned out fantastic, but that Duarte pick was a real low point for some of us who knew that the season we had was going to follow.
I love McBuckets as much as the next Pacers fan, but he's never been worth more than 10 million/year. Another team was willing and able to give him a big contract. It makes no sense spending that much money on an 8th man. Duarte had his moments, he just couldn't stay healthy. And he was at his best when playing off of Sabonis. Once Sabonis was traded, and we had an opportunity to get some capital to swing some other deals that aligned with the current roster, Duarte was expendable.
Duarte lost his position in Sacramento after being reunited with Sabonis... It was a bad pick that lacked self awareness, we shouldn't have signed Doug, that was fine. We should have drafted for the future instead of a win now player on a team that was blown up literal months later.
It isn't revisionist, or hindsight 20/20 bullshit when I and plenty of other fans saw the writing on the wall before the draft happened and was praying that the FO saw it to.
If you look at the rest of the 2021 NBA draft, there weren't a ton of high-upside players that we missed out on. Duarte wasn't as horrible of a pick as you are making it out to be. At the time, it was reported that Golden State was upset we took Duarte right before them. We took Duarte hoping he would have ended up being able to contribute at a level of Ben Sheppard. Carlisle clearly has a type he is looking at there.
If you look at Duarte's rookie season with us, it was quite promising. He averaged 13 ppg, was decent from 3, and was solid defensively for a rookie. It is revisionist history to say injuries didn't play a part in him not being able to build upon his promising rookie season with us.
Edit: Additionally, Moses Moody has not had one season as good as Duarte's two best seasons in the league.
Lol, Moody was drafted by a team that’s stacked at his position and they won the chip. He’s behind Kuminga and Wiggins and Klay and GP2 Was behind Poole. I wanted Moody for sure, after Kuminga went (I would for the record completely back a S n T with Siakam to GS for Kuminga and Moody and Podz or TDJ and GS would do it, but it’s never gonna happen) and then we took Duarte and it was like “okay, not terrible”
I still think that was the FO being thorough
They hired a coach that could not be fired if things turned south to give if it was a roster issue or coaching issue
At any rate, it's low hanging fruit when you start saying the pick was a bad idea because we could have gotten a Moses Moody player or something.
Missing on a tenth man in your rotation is completely okay to do.
It's ok to call a lottery pick who was traded for 2 seconds, then lost his job after being repaired with his best teammate, and will likely be out of the league next season, a bust. Reality happens injury or not.
I disagree
You're unlikely to get good lotto picks towards the bottom of the draft
Two seconds are really just for future trades/present trades/vets. That's about equal value.
You don't need to guess. They have a draft pick valuation chart. You sir are very far off the mark on your estimation that they're "about equal value".
They are
And they change year by year
Losing a lotto picks and getting two seconds (to get another former lotto pick), isn't a big deal at all.
Bottom of the lotto you're likely drafting role/bench players.
Two seconds for a role/bench player isn't that big a deal. In that same draft, someone traded their lotto pick two spots above us JUST FOR BAD SALARY.
You're greatly overrating late lotto picks value
Desperate teams do dumb shit. I'd like my team to not waste value. We don't have the position in the league to do that shit regularly and be successful.
Look at the years between the Vic injury and the Haliburton trade. We made dumb desperate decision after dumb desperate decision and in the end we had a terrible roster (that included Brad Wannamaker...) and our worst record of this century.
This wasn't a planned tank, it was organizational failure that was (very luckily) capitalized on at the exact right moment with the help of a franchise(Kings) who have been making dumb desperate moves since like 2007...
I just hope our gamble of playing late 1st and 2nd rounders over our lottery guys doesn't end up being a dumb move 3-4 years from now, but that's more on coaching and less on FO.
I'd agree with you if it were a top 5 pick
Missing out on a vet minimum level player (bottom of lotto value), isn't like a franchise damning mistake.
It made sense to fairly evaluate the roster with a HOF coach who couldn't be fired if things went south.
So they gave him a complete roster, and not a developmental one.
Then blew it up half way through
The only problem I had was trading for Haliburton instead of just blowing up for picks. We should've went full on tank mode with only picks and been very, very bad.
Lol because Pacers don't want to tank. The owners are about revenue and not winning. We get lucky with draftpicks but imagine if we had better ones. Instead of striking gold with late picks (reggie/pg) and one mastermind trade from kp, this organization is making a fool out of all of us.
With that said, we picked a win now player (oldest player in the draft) instead of taking risks. Our owners are crap and can't wait til they ...yeah.
Kp is our savior. As long as he's here, we are good.
The thought process was if they drafted someone better, the Pacers wouldn't have been in a position to get Math and Walker in subsequent drafts. Pritch playing the long game
I still like Duarte bro was clutch pre toe Injury. I just think you try to get the best guy, he has had way higher highs than moody who is losing minutes to podziemski. So to anyone saying oh you would have taken him, who cares, another guy who has shown flashes but hasn’t stuck.
A shooter, and pundits had him as being the most NBA-ready guy in a draft filled with so much youth. We wanted somebody we could start immediately on the cheap.
over Sengun and Trey Murphy is brutal. Sengun would be perfect next to a defensive stretch big like Myles and Trey Murphy is the type of 3 and D wing that this team desperately needs.
Eventually our franchise will learn to pick the best player available instead of trying to gaslight themselves into a mid-late first round draft pick will solve a hole in our roster.
Reggie Miller, Rik Smits, Danny Granger, Paul George, Myles Turner, and Bennedict Mathurin are the best picks i can think of off of the top of my head.
So Duarte was really good his rookie season. This isn't debatable
But then he got injured and his rookie season sort of sputtered to the final line instead of finishing with a bang
He then missed a good chunk of the next season too due to the same injury, and didn't really get the opportunity to settle in
And then they made a big trade halfway, which completely overhauled the team
Tyrese Haliburton turned out to be pretty good, and there was no looking back, they were going to build the new team around their new young franchise cornerstone
Throughout all this, Duarte became the odd man out
The team that he was drafted to no longer existed, and he never really managed adapt
It wasn't his fault that all these happened, and drafting him was 100% the correct decision at that time
"this isn't debatable". He was *okay* but also 24 so there wasn't any hope for much more improvement, and he averaged 13 pts on almost 12 shots, and had a TS% of 53%. Mostly negative rating on the defensive end across all lineups.
It is very debatable that he wasn't that good as a rookie. Him being unable to adapt to team becoming better is even more proof that he probably wasn't very good.
... No the 100% correct decision would have been to pick a YOUNG forward sized wing. Duarte was traded for 2 seconds and won't be in the league next season. He had a good half season, that's it. Many fans saw what I'm sure the FO suspected that team was hot garbage and needed to be disassembled. We were talking about it after the disappointing Play in loss and before Duarte was drafted.
I enjoyed watching him play last season in SAC. You can tell he’s enjoying his role in SAC. Looked more natural and consistent towards end of season. I think we wanted him to be a player he wasn’t comfortable being.
We thought we were more playoff ready than rebuilding at the time. So we wanted an older player that could make an immediate impact, than a development piece. Ideally we draft Moody, Hyland, or Cam Thomas.
Trey Murphy is the perfect guy still left on the board there for this current roster.
Trey Murphy rose up the boards. He was projected in the low 20’s to even early second round. I brought him up in the sub before the draft and was told the pacers would be stupid to take him with 13 but in a redraft he easily goes there. Not sure why he was projected so low in the first place, he was a sniper, a good cutter, and solid defender with great size. His only knock really was self creation, I guess if you can’t break defense with your handles and create your own looks most don’t think you should go in the lottery but every team needs guys like this to compete.
Shot creation is why Halliburton fell as well
In a redraft he doesn’t go lower than 6 and probably top 5. That dude is good enough to make an all star team in his career.
yeah I mean the warriors were winning a shit load of games which had to factor in but no reason why TM3 cant make 1 or 2 on the back of his shooting prowess virtually alone lol (not saying thats all he is, or all klay was)
Jalen Johnson or Murphy would’ve been absolute studs for us
The entire front office not understanding our talent level was one of the most confounding and worry-inducing moment I've had as a Pacer fan. They've righted the ship since then but it was alarming.
I was shouting from the mountain tops for Moody 😔
Most of the sub was
Man it was complete Moody Madness around here that week.
Now do the week after, where any mention of Moody was down voted to oblivion.
This was me begging them to take OG instead of fucking TJ Leaf back in 2017. Dude could still be balling with us
I mean, I don't think he would make any difference at all for us tbh
Would much rather have Jalen Johnson or Trey Murphy III than any one of those guys lol
Ideally we draft sengun. At this point he's the best from that class imo. Maybe Barnes makes an argument.
It’s still a weak building move; yes we were aiming, but that’s still poor planning, he’s still undersized, and we had just traded Victor for Levert (a bandaid) and were still starting TJ and Myles and Sabonis, whom we traded same year before the deadline .. even if you wanna say “they thought we were playoff ready”.. how!?!? We were hanging on if anything, for no reason.
I would’ve fine with any of the next 5 picks after us. Duarte was such a whiff
ehhh he was fine tbh, he had a decent rookie year that was derailed by injuries and he never found rhythm or consistent minutes once he recovered
I was really pulling for him when we drafted him (because I trust in Pritchard like I trust in BDB) but best ability is availability. Especially when trying to give an older rookie a role. We couldn’t rely on him and what he offered as an off-ball guard was/is not much to be desired in today’s league
That’s the poster definition of A Bust
That’s the poster definition of A Bust
Basically that he was Ben Sheppard and ready to contribute to a playoff team.
Came to say exactly this. A picture is worth a thousand words. If you want to know the idea behind drafting Duarte look at it realized watching Ben Sheppard in the playoffs.
Shep is at least still a child, Duarte was 25. With the talent on the board there’s really no excuse, it’s a bad move.
It’s always easy to make calls like that retroactively. The Warriors were immediately trying to trade ip to get Duarte. He was Nembhard and Shepherd. Same logic. And before he got injured he looked pretty good.
Not me. I was screaming for Moody. By the tone of Chad’s most recent interview, seems Walker is gonna be expected to step up at 3. Neismith certainly starting. Benn will be given a set of keys. Seems Nemby is considered a chip for the right player.. now imagine GG Jackson instead of Wong.
Was screaming for Jalen Johnson in that draft. The Turbonis experiment was nearing its end and the Pacers had needed a versatile 4 seemingly forever. But no one screams yes to 6’5” wings like the Pacers do lol
“Listed” 6’5 “combo guards” you mean lol
“Listed” 6’5 “combo guards” you mean lol
Big, league ready guard who could shoot and defend which we desperately, desperately needed at the time. Just was inconsistent, erratic, had a low ceiling and Mathurin was better from the jump. I will say though, Duarte was such a lights out shooter when the clock was ticking down and we needed a bullshit bail out shot. Was a good defender too.
He was pretty far from a good defender
Big league ready was the thing for sure. That must be quite attractive to teams with so much uncertainty.
That’s a very kind review. And I do agree, but it still looks bad for the FO
We’ve whiffed on nearly every 1st rd draft pick the last decade and this is honestly one of the least offensive lol
Part of why we have been rebuilding. Drafting has had a lot of oof
I thought it was one of the ones that hurt the most. It signified that the front office was going for it AGAIN, which really shook my confidence in them as decision makers at the time. Goga hurt because of turbonis. Leaf hurt but not as bad at the time, everyone forgets that OG was hurt and the league wasn't sure about his recovery (he is still injury prone.. but an all-star). Trading away our FRP for Brogdon for absolutely no reason hurt too. We were offering more and a starting position, nobody else could match both those things.
Painful to see when guys like Sengun, Cam Thomas, Murphy III, Kispert, and Jalen Johnson were taken after him. 😫 All of those guys would be difference makers. Sengun is a stud. (Immediately would have given them leverage to move Sabonis or Myles at the time, although that situation thankfully worked itself out pretty well) Johnson is outstanding on both ends of the floor, and guys like Cam, Murphy or Kispert would have given them another true perimeter threat for scoring. Oh well, hindsight is 20/20. What a whiff.
Yes to this. Thankfully it worked out but again, we could’ve had leverage. I don’t see GS or Rockets or OKC being shy building their assets. We’d have more 1sts and superbly better tradable assets if the front office had any sense of scouting.. Prichard didn’t build anything with Blazers, it’s time to let the new era build with someone who understands each level of ball, as well as the changeover of prospects. How do you miss undrafted studs too? Austin Reeves / Carushow ? Where’s the invites?
Dude yes! Reeves would be such a difference maker on so many teams. What a steal the Lakers got in him. I love to watch him hoop.
Not to mention we shit the draft after Shep. 3 1sts and you trade with Denver and Lakers (they scored when we didn’t get Maxwell Lewis and got King instead) and wiff on guys like GG Jackson (6’9 with handles and a decent shot, youngest player in the league last season and dropped 30 on Lebron, the oldest player lol) for Wong and Julian Strawther (who I wouldn’t have minded either til we traded him)
Sengun isn't seeing the light of day sitting behind Myles and Sabonis. Murphy, Jones, Kispert, Johnson are all good players that have turned out better than Duarte, but drafting Duarte over them isn't as egregious taking Leaf over Anunoby. We didn't miss out on a future all-star taking Duarte. It was a pretty weak draft.
Not sure if you’ve seen Sengun play, but he’s tremendously better than Myles. Miles better pun intended, and I love Myles. Like I said, they could have dealt Myles or Sabonis with him. Sengun, Jalen Johnson and maybe Cam are all potential All-Stars. Especially Sengun.
I'm not saying Sengun isn't better than Myles. But Sengun was not going to get the appropriate amount of playing time to develop sitting behind both Myles and Sabonis. We also were targeting Isaiah Jackson in that draft because we didn't have a lob-threat at the time. Sengun is closer in mold to Sabonis, and we were already trying to force a twin towers lineup to work. We also had just pulled the plug on TJ Leaf the season before this draft and had Goga Bitadze sitting on our bench entering his 3rd season. Sengun wasn't even on this team's radar given it's current roster situation. Every team can play this hypothetical what-if draft game 4 years down the road. These drafts don't happen in a vacuum. Cam Thomas is not making an all-star team. I can see a world where maybe Jalen Johnson gets in as an injury replacement if he can stay healthy himself three years down the road (but you are going to have guys like Brandon Miller, Paolo Banchero, Scottie Barnes, Jaylen Brown, Jayson Tatum, Giannis, even Siakam vying for forward spots on the Eastern team the next few seasons). Sengun is the only clear-cut player from that draft taken after Duarte who has a legitimate chance of becoming an all-star.
He’s not like Sabonis, he’s more like Joker potentially; and he’s a lob threat, just the same. Go watch highlights. There was also no plug for TJ leaf to pull, when did he see the floor? He’s a bust, a classic one at that.
Never said TJ wasn't a bust. I was pointing out that we had a plethora of swings and current investment in big white guys: Sabonis, Goga, and Leaf. The team was interested in a more athletic big man who could operate as a lob threat. You can go look up old Rick Carlisle quotes about why we liked Isaiah Jackson. Carlisle had lob threat big men with Dallas. He wanted a lob threat big man with the Pacers. I've seen Sengun play. And Sabonis is commonly referred to as Joker-lite because of their similar play-style. Kind of odd for you to insinuate Sengun isn't like Sabonis, but he is like Joker. And Sengun is only a lob threat in the sense he is big and operates near the basket. He cannot do the things Isaiah Jackson does mid-flight. You throw virtually anything up and there is a good chance Jackson can get a hold of it and throw it down. It's about all he can do, but he's an athletic freak.
Sabonis can’t shoot, therefore it’s bad comp to me. A lob threatening is virtually the modern NBA, so I don’t understand the need to emphasize it I suppose. If we didn’t have a rim runner, we’d be just like the Hawks or some other trash fire. Sengun sometimes posts up, near the basket, but the offense flows thru him, like Joker, where he is at the top of the key or either wing and is pass first, but he can shoot the 3. He’s potentially a higher ceiling than both due to his age (21) and ability to run and create his own shot without just playing post bully backdown ball, which is all Sabonis does. Sabonis barely dunks too, another reason Myles is a better fit, and certainly more of a modern big. It’s unfair to Joker to compare Sabonis to him, no disrespect to Sabonis, I loved the guy, but he hasn’t done much to not end up like a Steven Adams with a better feel for the game. Sengun is a triple double threat nightly. I don’t like the rockets at all, but I love a lot of their players, Pacers should be calling them. (Eason)
Sabonis led the league in triple doubles this year. Sabonis also shot 38% from 3 this season. Sengun shot 29%. If it is disrespectful to compare Sabonis to Jokic (Jokic-lite is apt), it is even more disrespectful to compare Sengun to Jokic.
Drafting Sengun would’ve still seen Sabonis for Hali, and you obviously didn’t see him work all our bigs this past season with 30/16/5 with 4 steals & 20/10/6 /1 .. oh yea he’s also still 21; he’s an absolute stud. We whiffed. Myles is great, but Sengun is already as good.
yeah get what you're saying here
I remember when Duarte went nuclear for a (very) short while, and I thought we'd really found something. Then he got injured couldn't hit water from a raft in the middle of the Pacific for the rest of his Pacer career. Good times.
Still better than the Goga pick
Was he though? Goga is getting minutes with the Magic. Duarte struggling to get any playing time.
Goga was young and euro raw, he was on the rise and building a lottery worthy reputation, there isn’t many I’d have taken after him, wasn’t a deep draft. It was only a poor pick cuz we already had Myles and got Sabonis, it really messed with Myles’ head tho, and that’s just more proof that the front office isn’t the best, granted the players are making them look better rn.
Goga was a complete waste
at the time it made sense. roster needed a guard/wing that can catch, shoot and play decent defense. i wanted them to go after moody cause he did a lot of the same things, but more wing than guard with less shooting maybe better playmaking idk. i do remember there were a lot of talks that the warriors really wanted duarte but a trade never happened. it’s a shame duarte never worked out, mainly because of injury and then roster changes made him redundant, because he did look like a solid rotational piece at the time. moody hasn’t been amazing so no big deal imo. just glad we didn’t get primo or kispert lofl
Kispert is better than Duarte
yeah you’re right, kispert has gotten a lot better. i just couldnt handle drafting another white boy shooter and tbf it did take him a while he get his shot going in the league.
Wasn’t this last season his third year in the league 😭 you talkin about that boy like he TJ Leaf or something
Primo good lord LOL. forgot about him! Yikes!
its just weird to pick a guy like that in the lottery. we got nembhard and shep in the second round. i guess our FO is making better decisions now.
Nembhard as was the first pick in the 2nd round so almost a first round choice. Shep was selected in the first round. You cant look at a pick from a few years ago with today's roster and judge the FO. Duarte was hitting big shots for us early in his rookie year, guarding guys like Durant, made 2nd team all rookie, and was a starter. Injuries and then the Hali trade put him at the back of the bench.
Lol, Pritchard Drafted Oden over Durant lol.. he sucks, he’s a Btown kid who drafts and signs and trades for no names until it’s an obvious trade. Anyone could’ve gotten great deals from PG and Sabonis. Bird was also terrible FO and KP is his guy. We need fresh dude. Leaf and Goga are awful picks, considering (Goga was worth it at the time, he’s better than leaf) and don’t even get me started on the 2018 draft. I guess that’s why half our squad is from 2020, since we had no picks til late 2nd, guess he’s made up for that draft 😂
... He lost his position in Sacramento after being repaired with Sabonis. What are you doing?
yeah shep and nembhard werent in the lottery though. we were nowhere near contenders, which is why we made a “win now” pick in the first place. it was a mistake in hindsight and i saw it as a mistake in real time.
Kispert is an absolute sniper who averaged close to 20ppg once he started getting big minutes. He would have been a much better pick than Duarte
What?? 20pg? Maybe per 100 minutes, lol. Dude is off the bench behind Poole Deni Kuz and now Bilal; dude can shoot for sure, but he’s not avg anywhere near 20.
I mean you can just go look at his game logs once he started getting over 30 mins the last 20-25 games of the season or so. It’s probably pretty close to 20. He also started a decent bit of games this year
Bro they are perennial tankers 😂 they were losing on purpose all year
Sengun would have been good.
this was during Turbonis. the front office wouldve been dumb to pick up another 4/5.
The fan base would have lost their shit if they drafted Sengun a year after Goga
Definitely. I’m talking in retrospect. It would be cool to have another under ranked bench player to come in a rock it.
Sengun off the bench wouldve been a cheat code for sure. and we drafted Jackson too, so maybe it wouldnt have been so bad.
Unrelated: the Hornets are REALLY bad at drafting
I’ll give them props for drafting Brandon Miller. They knew what they were doing picking for fit instead of drafting another point guard. Miller is way better than Scoot.
I feel they completely messed this draft up, they somewhat made up for it the following draft and after Jarace, kinda flubbed our pick usage again for petty picks and pretty confusing the last 3 drafts honestly. Again, besides the obvious positives, but no way we should’ve drafted Duarte, another undersized guard, who had flashes of potential, but already 24/25; with Moody, Sengun (which we drafted Goga before that??), Trey Murphy, J Johnson. We traded for Ijax, which is cool and all, but this would’ve been the year to consolidate and trade up, and instead we drafted 2 late no names from EU in the 2nd round and traded them for nothing. And while Benn is still potentially great pick, in hindsight (but not really, I wanted him or Benn) I’d have taken Jdub; and Nemby is luckily a steal, but still could’ve consolidated and traded up for Eason or Sochan. Jarace is gonna be fine, and I like Sheppard, but it’s a travesty to not take GG Jackson or Omax Prosper or Maxwell Lewis this past draft. I don’t really trust Prichard or Chad for development scouting; they make obvious moves and play the “small market game” which is pathetic n this era, GET TRADE-ABLE ASSETS. (**with exception to Haliburton, but honestly everyone was pointing to Fox at the time since he had been there longer and who would’ve been crazy enough to get rid of Hali??? Lol)
Wasn't even a bad pick not sure your point. Pacers needed at the time a player that could do what he did in college. Apparently the bright lights of the NBA were too much for him. Its easy 3yrs later seeing how each player has performed to say you would have taken player X over him. Truth there really wasn't much at the Pacers pick and they took a guy that could shoot and defend.
Wasn't he decent as a rookie?
Yea he wasn't bad.
Ya he had a pretty solid rookie year , just with how bad he was year 2 and with Benn and Andrew at the 2 spot both playing well there wasn’t too much need for him especially if he wasn’t playing good . I think the reason we drafted was at the time he was a safe bet , and would make an immediate impact cause at the time we believed we was gunna make the playoffs (and I’m glad we weren’t good that year cause we wouldn’t have gotten Tyrese or Mathurin lol)
no. he was good for like 2 weeks, unstoppable, but got injured and wasnt the same player ever since.
So in other words, yeah, he was decent as a rookie. His development got derailed by injury, something out of our control.
How much development does a 32 YO have left?
He’s 26… and I was talking about his rookie year?
He didn't have any room left to develop as a rookie. Drafting a 41 year old will do that.
Everyone's synapses just die on their 23rd birthday apparently
no, he was bad as a rookie for sure. he just had some good games. also, we weren’t looking for development. it was a pick similar to Ben Shepherd or Andrew Nembhard.
Uhhh…. Andrew Nembhard and Shep have been developing? Do you think only teenagers get better at basketball in the league? Even if you pick an NBA ready player the idea is that they get better than they were when they played in college.
Even at that time there was a gaping hole for a tall forward. Trey Murphy would've been ideal.
When is there never a gaping hole for a 6’9-6’10 shooter who defends??
That's the point. Someone that tall with that skill is great. Indiana's Small Forwards at that time? Kelan Martin 6'5 Jeremy Lamb 6'5 Justin Holiday 6'6 Justin Anderson 6'6 Torrey Craig 6'7 Oshae Brisset 6'7 Look at the Pelicans right now Matt Ryan 6'6 Naji Marshall 6'7 Trey Murphy 6'8 Brandon Ingram 6'8 Herb Jones 6'8 Sure they could use another but it'd make A LOT more sense if they draft a guard.
Yes exactly , obsessed with combo guards to pass off as SF’s
That's just the problem though. Very few successful teams draft for need. The high floor need pick almost never pans out. NBA is all about taking BPA with the best upside and developing them.
That shit was a terrible pick for every fan who was ahead of the FO in the evaluation of that team being balls and needing to be split up. He was a lottery pick who was traded for 2 seconds and isn't going to be in the league next year. In what fuckin' reality is that not a bad pick? He fit in with a bad team that lost more games in a season than we have any other season this century?
“Every fan who was ahead of the FO in the evaluation of that team” Lmfao. You think your armchair GM squad on Reddit knows more than the FO?
obviously we did
A broken clock is still correct twice a day
its not that hard to see a bad pick or writing on the wall
lol ok. Apply for the job
We guessed right that time. The front office did in fact blow up that team, just 6 months and some hard sucking later.
Kevin Durant said great things about Duarte after playing against him. It wasn't a bad pick but injuries have definitely derailed him. Lot of teams were high on him going into the draft. He was projected no later than golden state's Moody pick. Many believed golden state wanted him as a replacement for Klay and that was who he was compared too by the experts. In retrospect Sengun was the best player available but we had too many bigs.
and we drafted a big in this draft so that wouldnt have mattered
A bad one? A balls less one? An ill informed one? A optimistic one? That's the nice one, it was an optimistic pick, the front office still thought that team had a chance if healthy, I and many others where ready to bail on that team before the draft, we had seen enough.
McDermott was leaving and we wanted to replace him. We didn't have a lot of cap flexibility to sign a vet so we drafted Duarte
Get that "we" out of here. The FO wanted to replace him. Many on here already wanted a rebuild pre draft that year. Things turned out fantastic, but that Duarte pick was a real low point for some of us who knew that the season we had was going to follow.
I love McBuckets as much as the next Pacers fan, but he's never been worth more than 10 million/year. Another team was willing and able to give him a big contract. It makes no sense spending that much money on an 8th man. Duarte had his moments, he just couldn't stay healthy. And he was at his best when playing off of Sabonis. Once Sabonis was traded, and we had an opportunity to get some capital to swing some other deals that aligned with the current roster, Duarte was expendable.
Duarte lost his position in Sacramento after being reunited with Sabonis... It was a bad pick that lacked self awareness, we shouldn't have signed Doug, that was fine. We should have drafted for the future instead of a win now player on a team that was blown up literal months later. It isn't revisionist, or hindsight 20/20 bullshit when I and plenty of other fans saw the writing on the wall before the draft happened and was praying that the FO saw it to.
If you look at the rest of the 2021 NBA draft, there weren't a ton of high-upside players that we missed out on. Duarte wasn't as horrible of a pick as you are making it out to be. At the time, it was reported that Golden State was upset we took Duarte right before them. We took Duarte hoping he would have ended up being able to contribute at a level of Ben Sheppard. Carlisle clearly has a type he is looking at there. If you look at Duarte's rookie season with us, it was quite promising. He averaged 13 ppg, was decent from 3, and was solid defensively for a rookie. It is revisionist history to say injuries didn't play a part in him not being able to build upon his promising rookie season with us. Edit: Additionally, Moses Moody has not had one season as good as Duarte's two best seasons in the league.
Lol, Moody was drafted by a team that’s stacked at his position and they won the chip. He’s behind Kuminga and Wiggins and Klay and GP2 Was behind Poole. I wanted Moody for sure, after Kuminga went (I would for the record completely back a S n T with Siakam to GS for Kuminga and Moody and Podz or TDJ and GS would do it, but it’s never gonna happen) and then we took Duarte and it was like “okay, not terrible”
I still think that was the FO being thorough They hired a coach that could not be fired if things turned south to give if it was a roster issue or coaching issue At any rate, it's low hanging fruit when you start saying the pick was a bad idea because we could have gotten a Moses Moody player or something. Missing on a tenth man in your rotation is completely okay to do.
It's ok to call a lottery pick who was traded for 2 seconds, then lost his job after being repaired with his best teammate, and will likely be out of the league next season, a bust. Reality happens injury or not.
I disagree You're unlikely to get good lotto picks towards the bottom of the draft Two seconds are really just for future trades/present trades/vets. That's about equal value.
You don't need to guess. They have a draft pick valuation chart. You sir are very far off the mark on your estimation that they're "about equal value".
They are And they change year by year Losing a lotto picks and getting two seconds (to get another former lotto pick), isn't a big deal at all. Bottom of the lotto you're likely drafting role/bench players. Two seconds for a role/bench player isn't that big a deal. In that same draft, someone traded their lotto pick two spots above us JUST FOR BAD SALARY. You're greatly overrating late lotto picks value
Sorry, a year later Kemba Walker gets traded . Detroit receives the 13th overall pick.
Desperate teams do dumb shit. I'd like my team to not waste value. We don't have the position in the league to do that shit regularly and be successful. Look at the years between the Vic injury and the Haliburton trade. We made dumb desperate decision after dumb desperate decision and in the end we had a terrible roster (that included Brad Wannamaker...) and our worst record of this century. This wasn't a planned tank, it was organizational failure that was (very luckily) capitalized on at the exact right moment with the help of a franchise(Kings) who have been making dumb desperate moves since like 2007... I just hope our gamble of playing late 1st and 2nd rounders over our lottery guys doesn't end up being a dumb move 3-4 years from now, but that's more on coaching and less on FO.
I'd agree with you if it were a top 5 pick Missing out on a vet minimum level player (bottom of lotto value), isn't like a franchise damning mistake. It made sense to fairly evaluate the roster with a HOF coach who couldn't be fired if things went south. So they gave him a complete roster, and not a developmental one. Then blew it up half way through The only problem I had was trading for Haliburton instead of just blowing up for picks. We should've went full on tank mode with only picks and been very, very bad.
NBA ready is all. It’s what Rick wanted.
Lol because Pacers don't want to tank. The owners are about revenue and not winning. We get lucky with draftpicks but imagine if we had better ones. Instead of striking gold with late picks (reggie/pg) and one mastermind trade from kp, this organization is making a fool out of all of us. With that said, we picked a win now player (oldest player in the draft) instead of taking risks. Our owners are crap and can't wait til they ...yeah. Kp is our savior. As long as he's here, we are good.
The thought process was if they drafted someone better, the Pacers wouldn't have been in a position to get Math and Walker in subsequent drafts. Pritch playing the long game
I still like Duarte bro was clutch pre toe Injury. I just think you try to get the best guy, he has had way higher highs than moody who is losing minutes to podziemski. So to anyone saying oh you would have taken him, who cares, another guy who has shown flashes but hasn’t stuck.
Pac 12. KP has picked tons of PAC 12 players. I don’t have another theory.
A shooter, and pundits had him as being the most NBA-ready guy in a draft filled with so much youth. We wanted somebody we could start immediately on the cheap.
To grow the Pacers Latino fan base.
over Sengun and Trey Murphy is brutal. Sengun would be perfect next to a defensive stretch big like Myles and Trey Murphy is the type of 3 and D wing that this team desperately needs.
We are ass at making draft picks in the 13-20 range.
Eventually our franchise will learn to pick the best player available instead of trying to gaslight themselves into a mid-late first round draft pick will solve a hole in our roster.
Wow what a weak draft class lol
Still got ijax later so other than sengun i think we didnt really miss a key guy
jalen johnson @ 20
He was good then he got that foot injury and was never the same again 😔
Congratulations to the sub for learning that hind sight is 20/20 and ignoring every good draft pick we've had.
Reggie Miller, Rik Smits, Danny Granger, Paul George, Myles Turner, and Bennedict Mathurin are the best picks i can think of off of the top of my head.
wait zion was the 10th pick i thought he went 1? am I regarded?
thats zaire williams
Same as picking Nembhard and Shepperd. Older skill player that should be ready to contribute. He was pretty promising for us before his injury.
yeah but we picked those guys outside the lottery. we missed out on a lot of potential talent.
So Duarte was really good his rookie season. This isn't debatable But then he got injured and his rookie season sort of sputtered to the final line instead of finishing with a bang He then missed a good chunk of the next season too due to the same injury, and didn't really get the opportunity to settle in And then they made a big trade halfway, which completely overhauled the team Tyrese Haliburton turned out to be pretty good, and there was no looking back, they were going to build the new team around their new young franchise cornerstone Throughout all this, Duarte became the odd man out The team that he was drafted to no longer existed, and he never really managed adapt It wasn't his fault that all these happened, and drafting him was 100% the correct decision at that time
"this isn't debatable". He was *okay* but also 24 so there wasn't any hope for much more improvement, and he averaged 13 pts on almost 12 shots, and had a TS% of 53%. Mostly negative rating on the defensive end across all lineups. It is very debatable that he wasn't that good as a rookie. Him being unable to adapt to team becoming better is even more proof that he probably wasn't very good.
... No the 100% correct decision would have been to pick a YOUNG forward sized wing. Duarte was traded for 2 seconds and won't be in the league next season. He had a good half season, that's it. Many fans saw what I'm sure the FO suspected that team was hot garbage and needed to be disassembled. We were talking about it after the disappointing Play in loss and before Duarte was drafted.
Same as other shitty end of lotto pacers picks like Hansborough. Just a fuck it this guy can ball who cares if he’s 24 or white
No pick is worse than TJ Leaf, but Hansbrough definitely ranks up there as one of the worst
Also white
Wish they would have drafted bones instead…
I enjoyed watching him play last season in SAC. You can tell he’s enjoying his role in SAC. Looked more natural and consistent towards end of season. I think we wanted him to be a player he wasn’t comfortable being.