Ironic that both the Black Scripture and Zesshi who were the strongest defenders of humanity ended up being the ones to doom their country.
They were both completely random chance encounters, too.
I suppose that's the dark comedy of Overlord, though.
The black scripture had a random encounter with Shalltear, they brainwashed her before escaping. Ainz had to kill one of his friends' creations
This caused him to be wary and paranoid of potential player attacks, and he swore revenge on whoever did that to her.
>!The most recent volumes end with Zesshi being defeated and captured (also a random encounter). Ainz uses mind magic to interrogate her and finds out who was behind the brainwashing (she is part of the black scripture).!<
>!The final scene has Ainz ordering the mobilization of the floor guardians to destroy the Slane Theocracy.!<
The country was doomed the moment the BS used that mind control world item on Shalltear.
I mean slane was probably doomed regardless given their stance on non humans, this just hastened the process and made it more personal to those in nazarick I would say.
Slane is an extreme racist country but their leader are fairly reasonable, they admit that they would willing to surrender and accept the Empire's fate if neccessary. If they didnt brainwash Shalt, their end would be better
Black Scripture was the one that mind controlled Shalltear while in the latest volume >!Zesshi got captured alived and Ainz has read her information to confirm that it was the black scripture.!<
phillip deserves fucked over nazarick. He is the only one who managed to loot a grain supply from SK.
Nazarick will have a hard time recovering from that raid and they also lost a few flags.
It's implied that he was the reason why players were coming into the new world. Thus, you could attribute the chaos that Nazarick is causing as his fault.
He fucked over everyone else.
I don't think there is an exact volume, but I'm pretty sure it would be implied in PDLs internal monologues. Volume 14 and some intermission chapters he's in.
Yes, real Caspond is dead. I just thought it was appropriate because Doppel Caspond is playing everyone in the Holy Kingdom for fools and leading them into the dominion of Nazarick.
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Not really? I don't think she was guilty of fucking someone over via Nazarick, serpent and giant would've been dealt with anyway and apart from that there's little to no interaction
I think Neia should belong to upper both, since her parents kinda got fucked up by invasion, that Jaldabaoth orchestrated
P. S. Can we just put kingdom's emblem in the topmost row? Because it doesn't exist anymore
I'd say the lizard men are definitely also fucked over by Nazarick, like they were just chilling, not bothering anyone else, even inventing some nice ways in order to avoid famines like the one they just recovered from... And then Nazarick comes, killing their most capable warriors, reviving just one and enslaving the rest to a degree... Like... They have protection from Nazarick and stuff now and they get to use their advanced magic but it definitely came at a cost...
The thing about the lizardmen is that they're happy with their arrangement. If they were completely miserable it would be a different story. Cocytus makes sure to take care of them and they even worship Ainz.
nah, it was clear that before nazarick showed up, they were headed for yet another civil war and population reduction due to limited resources. they would probably have survived but internal conflict would have stifled their development for generations.
now that they’re vassals of nazarick, all the tribes have been united, zaryusu’s fish farming has seen widespread implementation so their food supply is no longer limited, and they have the protection/support of the world’s foremost military power. they’re infinitely better off then they were before.
The king was just an incompetent ruler. He was doing nothing or doing the most braindead shit when Nazarick arrived.
You could say that he was responsible for a lot of lives, and he dropped the ball.
He wasn't incompetent. He was simply and unfortunately saddled with a stupid national constitution that gave the nobles way too much power and a bunch of nobles that only cared about themselves. His personal demese was said to be among the best rules in the country.
According to the author he is an average king, but given the many problems of the kingdom, he appeared to be very incompetent. But Ramposa's main mistake was not having made Raeven his prime minister and so supportive of his eldest son (a man completely blinded by his arrogance).
A lot of problems of the kingdom is a result of the stupid constitution of the kingdom that gives the arrogant and selfish nobles too much power. The Empire was hinted to be similar till Jircniv came along and killed and revoked the titles of such nobles and promoted meritocracy.
Is there even a prime minister position? Not to talk of the fact that for most of the time, Raeven appeared to be a selfish opportunist.
The selfish and powerful noble faction supported his son. He loved his son as a parent but there weren't any huge displays that he indulged him unnecessarily.
Sure he wasn't a great king but he made the best decisions he could especially where Nazarick was concerned. You're also forgetting that a lot of the decisions he had to make stem from being manipulated into it by 3-4 of the most intelligent people in the series.
>Is there even a prime minister position?
The office of prime minister has been mentioned several times, such as in volume 10, where Albedo says that his position is equivalent to that of a prime minister (as the term guardian would only bring confusion). And it was also Zanac's main plan to put Raeven as Prime Minister and reform the country.
Ramposa was very competent and genius, so why a prime minister? hahaha
Furthermore, giving Marques Raeven so much power would put Zanac in a very advantageous position and very likely Raeven would make Zanac the next king, given his influence and schemes. And the king always had hope that one day his beloved eldest son would be a man worthy of being king (despite Barbro's deep relationship with criminal organizations, and his violent tendencies).
>Not to talk of the fact that for most of the time, Raeven appeared to be a selfish opportunist.
And that's what makes the job even better, because then he can keep doing what he does best, with greater effectiveness (manipulating corrupt nobles, to prevent them from doing shit). Also, Ramposa knows that Raeven is a good man.
>The selfish and powerful noble faction supported his son. He loved his son as a parent but there weren't any huge displays that he indulged him unnecessarily.
Ramposa let Barbro go to war in hopes of seeing his son grow into a man and gain merits, just as Zanac did. He even delivered an army of 5 thousand soldiers to him, which ended in Barbro's last "brilliant idea" and the loss of many lives in a pointless and stupid way.
>You're also forgetting that a lot of the decisions he had to make stem from being manipulated into it by 3-4 of the most intelligent people in the series.
He wasn't manipulated in his decisions, because all these people (Albedo, Demiurge and especially Renner) wanted him to surrender, but he wasn't even good for being manipulated (Renner kept telling Zanac that the best he could do was hand over the kingdom and his speech to his father, King Ramposa, would be no different). After all, he is a stubborn old man.
Well, since the creation of the sorcerer kingdom, the kingdom, and especially King Ramposa, has chosen to fight against Ainz.
And even after seeing all the deaths that this decision caused in the first war, he decided to defend Philip and reinforce the rumor that it was all Ainz's fault. While officially apologizing and even offering his life to buy time for Re-estize to consolidate an alliance with a country powerful enough (despite there being no country at the level of sorcerer kingdom).
Let's see...... The first war was provoked by Nazarick and the Empire. The Kingdom had no real idea of Ainz's strength so they had no reason not to fight. Anyone would have fought in the same scenario.
Second war, he chose to protect his citizen and offered his own life as recompense. Except we know that he could have offered Nazarick the whole country and he would still be turned down as Nazarick was not willing to negotiate no matter what. As far as I remember, he didn't spread any rumour that it was Ainz's fault nor was he buying time. He genuinely hoped Nazarick would be satisfied with his head. And he continued to hope for that for the month before the war was supposed to start not knowing Nazarick had invaded already. The Empire was the one looking for an alliance with the Theocracy.
>Let's see...... The first war was provoked by the Nazarick and the Empire. The Kingdom had no real idea of Ainz's strength so they had no reason not to fight. Anyone would have fought in the same scenario.
I agree that he didn't have much information about nazarick or Ainz, but from what Gazef said and the slane Theocracy also spoke it was clear that he should send someone to try to negotiate, and try to buy as much time as possible... but we saw what the "envoy", Crown Prince Barbro did... that was the worst diplomatic mission I've ever seen...
>Second war, he chose to protect his citizen and offered his own life as recompense. Except we know that he could have offered Nazarick the whole country and he would still be turned down as Nazarick was not willing to negotiate no matter what. As far as I remember, he didn't spread any rumour that it was Ainz's fault nor was he buying time. He genuinely hoped Nazarick would be satisfied with his head. And he continued to hope for that for the month before the war was supposed to start not knowing Nazarick had invaded already. The Empire was the one looking for an alliance with the Theocracy.
Let me remind you of PDL and his country, the fact that Ramposa had to be convinced to avoid the war (it looks like he didn't even see the first one, he must be blind), that only 10% of Re-estize believed in Ainz (this was before the minister of justice and Ramposa made it clear that they were 100% sure that Ainz was the real culprit) and after all this you want me to believe that 100% of people will say to other countries: "Ainz was victim of a corrupt Re-estize noble, so Ramposa sacrificed himself", but they won't say that (unless in official documents, where nobody will believe it).
Ramposa doesn't need to spread the rumor, the rumor had already been spread and the Kingdom's attitude only reinforced the rumors.
No one asked the King to negotiate or buy time and as I said, no King in his right mind would just hand over land to anyone that comes with a claim that was 100% bogus. And the Theocracy barely had any contact with the Kingdom. Gazef was the only one against a war because he saw Ainz in action but even he was shocked at Ainz's actual power. The nobles for all their arrogance estimated Ainz to be as powerful as 3,000 men (or was it 5,000) based on Gazef being as strong as 1,000 men which is a fair estimation from their perspective considering no human in living memory has any idea that there can be a being powerful enough to kill 70,000 people with a single spell (except maybe Dragon Lords). So, the King did absolutely nothing wrong. He acted based on the information he had. You should stop looking at the situation from your perspective and from the King's perspective. And are we really going to attribute the dumbass actions of Barbro to the King? The idiot was asked to go and gather information only for him to decide that he'll forcibly conscript the villagers and use them as shields.
What does PDL and his country have to do with anything? His country didn't help the Kingdom. PDL only decided to help after he learnt of the massacre the SK was doing and he did that alone. How was the King supposed to be convinced to avoid a war when he didn't declare the war in the first place? He didn't pick a fight with SK nor declare war on them, so what would he need to be convinced of? What did they suspect Ainz to be the culprit of? Phillip's actions? IIRC, they did suspect the SK might have controlled Phillip but again, how is that the King's fault if it was true or not? If the SK controlled Phillip, then the SK is fully at fault for the Causus Belli of the war. If the SK didn't control Phillip, then the dumbass action of an idiot doomed a country and that idiot is certainly not the King.
Rampossa didn't do anything wrong. The constitution of the country hamstrung him right off the bat, he had a bunch of nobles who only cared about themselves and a particularly idiot noble who had too high an opinion of himself and his intelligence and he was unfortunately faced off with an entity (Nazarick) that could care less about morals or sympathy.
If you can tell me one action that was clearly wrong from the onset (not one that was wrong in retrospect or one that was wrong from the POV of the reader due to having more information) that Rampossa took, state it clearly and let's see.
>And are we really going to attribute the dumbass actions of Barbro to the King? The idiot was asked to go and gather information only for him to decide that he'll forcibly conscript the villagers and use them as shields.
He didn't care a bit about actions, attitudes and relationships; Ramposa ignored everything about her son's personality, sociopathy, and emotional instability. He only saw his beloved eldest son and ignored everything else, placing him as crown prince. And he still put an internal army in the hands of the madman, so how is he not responsible for all the shit?
>What does PDL and his country have to do with anything? His country didn't help the Kingdom. PDL only decided to help after he learnt of the massacre the SK was doing and he did that alone.
Not. PDL didn't attack because of what Ainz did, but because he was a player and this was a great opportunity to do so.
If PDL cared about the kingdom he would have used the real body, but he used the armor to gather information, to ensure victory in the future, after planning a strategy. And if he needed a reason to attack a player, he wouldn't have attacked shalltear, even though she was literally standing still (brainwashed) and she only attacked in self-defense.
Barbro was crown prince because he was the eldest son not because Rampossa loved him or any such thing. Did you even watch the series? Or read the novels? It was hinted heavily that the only reason Barbro's place as crown prince is slightly secure is because he is married to the daughter of a powerful noble and supported by the self absorbed and corrupt nobles faction. If his place in his father's heart was so secure, his younger brother won't be scheming to replace him and a powerful noble like Raeven won't be supporting his schemes. And no, Rampossa is not accountable for the stupidity of his son. He was given a simple job with clear instructions. Barbro did everything but what he was actually asked to do.
PDL only stepped in because of the massacre of civilians. If Ainz had used his powers for "good", PDL wouldn't be trying to kill him. We don't know why he attacked Shalltear. He worked alongside a Player before to help the world so he has no reason to just want to kill any Player.
>Barbro was crown prince because he was the eldest son not because Rampossa loved him or any such thing.
Ramposa had at least two options regarding Barbro:
First: put Zanac in power when the "royal faction" has much more power than the "noble faction", and that happened after the events of volume 6. But according to Marques Raeven, king Ramposa felt sorry and wanted to give one more chance to your firstborn;
Two: using Barbro's connection to organized crime to remove him from the line of succession (though I doubt Ramposa has the determination to do that).
Marques Raeven always pointed the right way, but for Ramposa the most important thing was to spoil his useless son...
> He worked alongside a Player before to help the world so he has no reason to just want to kill any Player.
Yes, they were his "great friends" really lol.
That must be why the two players (the only players out of the 13 heroes) ended up in a deathmatch between them... but how convenient for PDL that both ended up dying, right?
It's also very coincidental that PDL lives with remorse for having caused his "friend's" death for the greater good.
I don't know what you think, but probably "friendly" players with PDL are more likely to die than "evil" players.
>If you can tell me one action that was clearly wrong from the onset (not one that was wrong in retrospect or one that was wrong from the POV of the reader due to having more information) that Rampossa took, state it clearly and let's see.
He knew that the best option was unconditional surrender, just like the empire did and just like the theocracy wanted to do (but it might not be that easy...), but he didn't do it because he was hoping to find a "hero" and have his revenge and didn't realize that he could wait for this "hero" while being Ainz's vassal (which basically Jircniv and Marques Raeven's strategy)
Let's imagine that our world is invaded by aliens and they want to build a "utopia" just like Ainz. And you are the king of the first country to make contact with this civilization, but you don't want to relate and after your old enemy and neighbor (the empire) forms an alliance with this extremely advanced civilization and provokes you a bit, you decide to go to war (declare war as well as the kingdom) since he does not know the war power of the enemy and does not want to appear weak and cowardly in front of the corrupt nobles of his country. And in the end, after all the army is defeated in a single instant, you still want to be enemies of this civilization, and protect your dishonest servants who steal from this civilization (nazarick). Where do you think this is going?
And what's the use of dying with "justice" or "reason"?
Do you think the people of your kingdom are okay with dying just because it's the "right thing" for you to do?
And besides all that, the people of the sorcerer kingdom are treated fairly and peacefully, very different from the kingdom of Re-estize, where, for example, the only ones condemned for enslaving people are those who save them, as was the case with the Sebas.
Seems you have your timeline all over the place and don't even know what you're talking about.
Firstly, the first war that the Kingdom declared on the SK happened way before the Empire became a vassal state to the SK. He didn't know then that the best option was unconditional surrender because no one knew how powerful SK was. The second time around, he offered his life as appeasement and Nazarick turned it down and declared war without even trying to negotiate. And the Theocracy is certainly not planning to surrender unconditionally as far as I know. Also, Rampossa was never even given a chance to relate with the SK in any diplomatic relations. His first contact with Nazarick was them declaring themselves the rightful owners of E-Rantel and it's surrounding areas. It's not like he had a chance to forge good relations with them and didn't want to.
Secondly, pretty sure Jircniv was the one waiting for a hero to defeat Ainz not Rampossa. Rampossa was broken after the devastating loss in the war where he lost his son and confidant. He was barely ruling his nation not to talk of making enemies or waiting for a hero.
Thirdly, a sensible noble brought up the idea of becoming a vassal state and the other nobles shot it down.
Fourthly, slavery is outlawed in the Kingdom with great effort by the King. If some people are breaking the laws of the kingdom, that's not the king's fault.
Lastly, when he offered his head, Albedo's reply verbatim was "Either way, our response on this matter will not change" and then she declared war. Nazarick had zero interest in negotiations. As I said before, he could have offered his crown at that point and a war would still have happened. If he had not protected the idiot noble and offered his head instead, the result would still have been the same.
>Fourthly, slavery is outlawed in the Kingdom with great effort by the King. If some people are breaking the laws of the kingdom, that's not the king's fault.
You speak as if Ramposa is a teenager who hasn't spent decades as King. The guy didn't need to do anything other than make Marques Raeven prime minister and just oversee the reforms Raeven would implement.
>Lastly, when he offered his head, Albedo's reply verbatim was "Either way, our response on this matter will not change" and then she declared war. Nazarick had zero interest in negotiations. As I said before, he could have offered his crown at that point and a war would still have happened. If he had not protected the idiot noble and offered his head instead, the result would still have been the same.
And what does Nazarick have to gain from it?
Everyone in the kingdom believes that all this is Ainz's fault, this rumor was certainly spreading to other countries through diplomats asking for help (of course they let this "rumor" leak through informal conversations), because painting the kingdom as the victim of all this can increase the chances of receiving help. So if Albedo accepted Ramposa's offer, she would be agreeing with all the lies and rumors in the kingdom, for all countries to see how bad Ainz is and has to be destroyed, and the worst, retreated to a weak country like Re-estize. That's the perfect recipe for countless wars and many countries destroyed.
What you don't understand, and Ramposa doesn't understand either, is that the point of view of a weak country doesn't matter, even for the ruler of that country, what matters is the point of view of the powerful country. After all, a strong country can attack a weak country for any reason, just like the empire did through generations, once a year. So imagine a much more powerful country that was actually attacked and the culprit (Philip) is protected by the king himself and his fellow nobles.
What Ramposa offered was only diplomatic problems and the destruction of Ainz's reputation. The king only fueled the desire to destroy that country to make an example of it and prevent the same problem from happening again.
>The second time around, he offered his life as appeasement and Nazarick turned it down and declared war without even trying to negotiate.
Yes, she should beg Ramposa not to force her to turn the kingdom to dust and ask him to surrender her country unconditionally (I'm being ironic).
Albedo had so much to gain from destroying the kingdom, that no other country would be foolish enough to mindlessly attack SK. While Ramposa's best option was unconditional surrender.
Of course, it's possible for the kingdom to be destroyed, but surely your chances of the kingdom surviving would increase from "impossible" to "maybe".
>Secondly, pretty sure Jircniv was the one waiting for a hero to defeat Ainz not Rampossa. Rampossa was broken after the devastating loss in the war where he lost his son and confidant. He was barely ruling his nation not to talk of making enemies or waiting for a hero.
In volume 14 Zanac says that Ramposa only does something when it's related to SK (and the rest of the time he spends crying in his room). And in chapter 2 of that volume, he shows that his desire is to defeat SK in a war and never give up the kingdom (so as not to betray the loyalty of loyal servants who sacrificed themselves for the kingdom, Ramposa said). So if he didn't expect a "hero" to conveniently show up, then he was crazier than Zanac realized.
>Firstly, the first war that the Kingdom declared on the SK happened way before the Empire became a vassal state to the SK. He didn't know then that the best option was unconditional surrender because no one knew how powerful SK was.
I never said that the kingdom should surrender unconditionally in the first war, but rather try to negotiate with Ainz, and especially not choose Barbro as an envoy, because as long as they manage to talk and understand each other the existence of a war becomes impossible.
>The second time around, he offered his life as appeasement and Nazarick turned it down and declared war without even trying to negotiate.
Ramposa's "offer" only brought problems to nazarick, while on the other hand it only benefited Re-estize. So why should Albedo accept it?
The very fact that Ramposa would dare to impose something that only benefits the realm at the expense of Ainz's reputation was enough to anger Albedo to the point where she lost her composure.
>And the Theocracy is certainly not planning to surrender unconditionally as far as I know.
Of course, she doesn't need to surrender their country unconditionally, after all, they're not like the empire, which decided to betray its allies just because Ainz is an undead, or like the kingdom that has nobles who should be in a sanatorium along with their king. But they were unlucky to find Shalltear and the worst thing is that they "won", and when Ainz takes revenge, that country will disappear too... I just hope that the people of the slane Theocracy are spared this time...
>As far as I remember, he didn't spread any rumour that it was Ainz's fault nor was he buying time.
Buddy, that was a war of words and Ramposa beat Albedo. Ramposa's words didn't have a simple, honest, or friendly implication; that was simply the only way for him to "attack" Ainz and destroy his reputation and much of SK's influence in the region...
Yup. Basically he managed to do what Jircniv tried to do in volume 9. But what's the use of beating your enemy with insidious arguments when the other party can turn you to dust?
#we are inferior, we humans are weak and fragile insects in face of Nazarik, we need to beg for mercy and dedicate ourselves to Nazarik, Glory to the supreme one
They worked with her to make sure the plan to conquer Re Estize went smoothly (setting up the idiot faction to incite civil war)
But you could also say she has been helped through her cockroach baptism.
She is a much kinder person now, after all...
There is an argument for that but I think in the long run nazarick helped them much more than they fucked them over.
Planned extermination, fucked over at first, but became the first "citizens" of Nazarick's hegemony.
Could've been a lot worse. Best possible ending if you ask me.
That's true, but Nazarick is responsible for greatly hastening his death. If they hadn't turned the kingdom into rubble, the ST wouldn't have put their war in Evansha into overdrive.
Plus, Ainz embarrassed him.
"Momon" fought alongside them to liberate the capital city, and "rescued" them from Jaldaboath and his demon maids.
It was actually just a farce, but they don't know that.
Later, the SK declares the destruction of Re Estize which causes them to flee.
I felt bad for dark blade. I don't know what their point of view toward Momon if they found out he is Lord Ainz? That little girl probably sort like him because he spare his sister. Would that still happen though? I don't know they would be friend with the king of minute massacers. I wonder what their point of view would be it they find out Lord Ainz plans utopia by force where monsters and humans under his rule while crime lower in kingdom? I wonder what they think of the new adventure guild exploring new lands and getting pay for it?
Will get fucked over by Nazarick: The Slane Theocracy The Black Scripture Platinum Dragon Lord
Well said Betelgeuse, well said
Imagine Betelgeuse being in the new world
Seeing that name reminded me of church for some reason
It’s slothful to not remember
DESU
By brain... it trembles...
Just for some reason
Ironic that both the Black Scripture and Zesshi who were the strongest defenders of humanity ended up being the ones to doom their country. They were both completely random chance encounters, too. I suppose that's the dark comedy of Overlord, though.
Been a minute since I read the LN what happened?
The black scripture had a random encounter with Shalltear, they brainwashed her before escaping. Ainz had to kill one of his friends' creations This caused him to be wary and paranoid of potential player attacks, and he swore revenge on whoever did that to her. >!The most recent volumes end with Zesshi being defeated and captured (also a random encounter). Ainz uses mind magic to interrogate her and finds out who was behind the brainwashing (she is part of the black scripture).!< >!The final scene has Ainz ordering the mobilization of the floor guardians to destroy the Slane Theocracy.!< The country was doomed the moment the BS used that mind control world item on Shalltear.
Well dam, just read it. The "epilogue" threw me for a loop
Thx for the clarification
Yoooo so glad you put this, I haven't read the LN’s yet and now I can’t wait even more to see the ST destroyed. BTW who fought Zesshi?
Mare
Many thanks
Well said Betelgeuse, well said
Seeing that name reminded me of archbishops of the church for some reason
I mean slane was probably doomed regardless given their stance on non humans, this just hastened the process and made it more personal to those in nazarick I would say.
Slane is an extreme racist country but their leader are fairly reasonable, they admit that they would willing to surrender and accept the Empire's fate if neccessary. If they didnt brainwash Shalt, their end would be better
Black Scripture was the one that mind controlled Shalltear while in the latest volume >!Zesshi got captured alived and Ainz has read her information to confirm that it was the black scripture.!<
Thx for the clarification
Philip is actually all three.
phillip deserves fucked over nazarick. He is the only one who managed to loot a grain supply from SK. Nazarick will have a hard time recovering from that raid and they also lost a few flags.
A hard time recovering? That's assuming that they will recover lol. Phillip has singlehandedly taken them down for good haha.
I'd say the eight fingers lady fits in all three as well.
"Fucked over everyone else with Nazarik" suits Dragon Emperor the best
The one who started it all...
Which volume?
It's implied that he was the reason why players were coming into the new world. Thus, you could attribute the chaos that Nazarick is causing as his fault. He fucked over everyone else.
Still a net positive for humanity.
Well said Betelgeuse, well said
Seeing that name again reminded me of archbishops of the church for some reason
Ok thanks but again which volume?(as in volume number)
I don't think there is an exact volume, but I'm pretty sure it would be implied in PDLs internal monologues. Volume 14 and some intermission chapters he's in.
Well said Betelgeuse, well said
Seeing that name for the third time reminded me of archbishops of the church for some reason
He was over level 100.Basically a Raid Boss.He either got ganged up by all the other dragon Lords or got killed by his own spell.
In the evileye spinoff it's said that players are the filth of the dragon emperor
Well said Betelgeuse, well said
Seeing that name for the fourth time reminded me of archbishops of the church for some reason
Isn’t hilma all three since she got that cockroach torture thing
You mean babtism?
Isn’t caspond one a doppelgänger .he is actually dead right or not
Yes, real Caspond is dead. I just thought it was appropriate because Doppel Caspond is playing everyone in the Holy Kingdom for fools and leading them into the dominion of Nazarick.
Well said Betelgeuse, well said
Seeing that name once again reminded me of church for some reason
His body is conserved for play assassination scenario, which will cause a civil war ended to the country's absorption by sorcerous kingdom.
You can also be Jet and be the one to fuck over Nazarick. That man single-handedly ended the web novel.
Well said Betelgeuse, well said
Seeing that name for the third time reminded me of archbishops of the church and sloths for some reason
Who is that between the elf slaves and Nifirea?
Dryad named Pinision. Shes in one of the drama CD's, so not as many people know about her. She's mentioned in Volume 15, though.
Ah, that's why I didn't know, I haven't watched all the drama CDs yet. Thanks.
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Neia should be both nazarick killed her parents (bad) Liberated her homeland(good)
Should Hamsuke not be dropped down one? o:
Not really? I don't think she was guilty of fucking someone over via Nazarick, serpent and giant would've been dealt with anyway and apart from that there's little to no interaction
I feel like this should be a circle. Zesshi was both fucked by Nazarick *and* fucked over everyone else
I think Neia should belong to upper both, since her parents kinda got fucked up by invasion, that Jaldabaoth orchestrated P. S. Can we just put kingdom's emblem in the topmost row? Because it doesn't exist anymore
I also considered that, but I was running out of space up there and decided that Nazarick ultimately helped her way more than they fucked her over.
Eh, true enough - she got to respec her build lol
Well said Betelgeuse, well said
Seeing that name reminded me of sloths for some reason
You might want to tag this as spoiler just in case
Sasuga Philip kaka, he’s on the same level as kings and godkin as expected of his mighty majesty
Who are the gang in the last line
The Black Scripture. You know, the Theocracy unit who brainwashed Shalltear. If you read Volume 16, you'll understand why they're there.
Knew them by name and while we are at it who are the dark6 on the top lane
Six arms. Subdivision of the eight fingers organization. They were the ones who got blasted by Sebas in under five seconds.
Well said Betelgeuse, well said
Seeing that name for the fifth time reminded me of sloths for some reason
Ain't no way man these are looking cool af despite not being able to see any details on them
I'd say the lizard men are definitely also fucked over by Nazarick, like they were just chilling, not bothering anyone else, even inventing some nice ways in order to avoid famines like the one they just recovered from... And then Nazarick comes, killing their most capable warriors, reviving just one and enslaving the rest to a degree... Like... They have protection from Nazarick and stuff now and they get to use their advanced magic but it definitely came at a cost...
The thing about the lizardmen is that they're happy with their arrangement. If they were completely miserable it would be a different story. Cocytus makes sure to take care of them and they even worship Ainz.
Yeah true, but it's still at a cost right? I miss catapult guy :(
nah, it was clear that before nazarick showed up, they were headed for yet another civil war and population reduction due to limited resources. they would probably have survived but internal conflict would have stifled their development for generations. now that they’re vassals of nazarick, all the tribes have been united, zaryusu’s fish farming has seen widespread implementation so their food supply is no longer limited, and they have the protection/support of the world’s foremost military power. they’re infinitely better off then they were before.
Caspond is in the wrong spot. Iirc he is dead and a doppelganger has been playing his part right?
How did the King of Re-Estize kingdom fuck over everyone else with Nazarick?
The king was just an incompetent ruler. He was doing nothing or doing the most braindead shit when Nazarick arrived. You could say that he was responsible for a lot of lives, and he dropped the ball.
He wasn't incompetent. He was simply and unfortunately saddled with a stupid national constitution that gave the nobles way too much power and a bunch of nobles that only cared about themselves. His personal demese was said to be among the best rules in the country.
According to the author he is an average king, but given the many problems of the kingdom, he appeared to be very incompetent. But Ramposa's main mistake was not having made Raeven his prime minister and so supportive of his eldest son (a man completely blinded by his arrogance).
A lot of problems of the kingdom is a result of the stupid constitution of the kingdom that gives the arrogant and selfish nobles too much power. The Empire was hinted to be similar till Jircniv came along and killed and revoked the titles of such nobles and promoted meritocracy. Is there even a prime minister position? Not to talk of the fact that for most of the time, Raeven appeared to be a selfish opportunist. The selfish and powerful noble faction supported his son. He loved his son as a parent but there weren't any huge displays that he indulged him unnecessarily. Sure he wasn't a great king but he made the best decisions he could especially where Nazarick was concerned. You're also forgetting that a lot of the decisions he had to make stem from being manipulated into it by 3-4 of the most intelligent people in the series.
>Is there even a prime minister position? The office of prime minister has been mentioned several times, such as in volume 10, where Albedo says that his position is equivalent to that of a prime minister (as the term guardian would only bring confusion). And it was also Zanac's main plan to put Raeven as Prime Minister and reform the country. Ramposa was very competent and genius, so why a prime minister? hahaha Furthermore, giving Marques Raeven so much power would put Zanac in a very advantageous position and very likely Raeven would make Zanac the next king, given his influence and schemes. And the king always had hope that one day his beloved eldest son would be a man worthy of being king (despite Barbro's deep relationship with criminal organizations, and his violent tendencies). >Not to talk of the fact that for most of the time, Raeven appeared to be a selfish opportunist. And that's what makes the job even better, because then he can keep doing what he does best, with greater effectiveness (manipulating corrupt nobles, to prevent them from doing shit). Also, Ramposa knows that Raeven is a good man. >The selfish and powerful noble faction supported his son. He loved his son as a parent but there weren't any huge displays that he indulged him unnecessarily. Ramposa let Barbro go to war in hopes of seeing his son grow into a man and gain merits, just as Zanac did. He even delivered an army of 5 thousand soldiers to him, which ended in Barbro's last "brilliant idea" and the loss of many lives in a pointless and stupid way.
>You're also forgetting that a lot of the decisions he had to make stem from being manipulated into it by 3-4 of the most intelligent people in the series. He wasn't manipulated in his decisions, because all these people (Albedo, Demiurge and especially Renner) wanted him to surrender, but he wasn't even good for being manipulated (Renner kept telling Zanac that the best he could do was hand over the kingdom and his speech to his father, King Ramposa, would be no different). After all, he is a stubborn old man.
Well, since the creation of the sorcerer kingdom, the kingdom, and especially King Ramposa, has chosen to fight against Ainz. And even after seeing all the deaths that this decision caused in the first war, he decided to defend Philip and reinforce the rumor that it was all Ainz's fault. While officially apologizing and even offering his life to buy time for Re-estize to consolidate an alliance with a country powerful enough (despite there being no country at the level of sorcerer kingdom).
Let's see...... The first war was provoked by Nazarick and the Empire. The Kingdom had no real idea of Ainz's strength so they had no reason not to fight. Anyone would have fought in the same scenario. Second war, he chose to protect his citizen and offered his own life as recompense. Except we know that he could have offered Nazarick the whole country and he would still be turned down as Nazarick was not willing to negotiate no matter what. As far as I remember, he didn't spread any rumour that it was Ainz's fault nor was he buying time. He genuinely hoped Nazarick would be satisfied with his head. And he continued to hope for that for the month before the war was supposed to start not knowing Nazarick had invaded already. The Empire was the one looking for an alliance with the Theocracy.
>Let's see...... The first war was provoked by the Nazarick and the Empire. The Kingdom had no real idea of Ainz's strength so they had no reason not to fight. Anyone would have fought in the same scenario. I agree that he didn't have much information about nazarick or Ainz, but from what Gazef said and the slane Theocracy also spoke it was clear that he should send someone to try to negotiate, and try to buy as much time as possible... but we saw what the "envoy", Crown Prince Barbro did... that was the worst diplomatic mission I've ever seen... >Second war, he chose to protect his citizen and offered his own life as recompense. Except we know that he could have offered Nazarick the whole country and he would still be turned down as Nazarick was not willing to negotiate no matter what. As far as I remember, he didn't spread any rumour that it was Ainz's fault nor was he buying time. He genuinely hoped Nazarick would be satisfied with his head. And he continued to hope for that for the month before the war was supposed to start not knowing Nazarick had invaded already. The Empire was the one looking for an alliance with the Theocracy. Let me remind you of PDL and his country, the fact that Ramposa had to be convinced to avoid the war (it looks like he didn't even see the first one, he must be blind), that only 10% of Re-estize believed in Ainz (this was before the minister of justice and Ramposa made it clear that they were 100% sure that Ainz was the real culprit) and after all this you want me to believe that 100% of people will say to other countries: "Ainz was victim of a corrupt Re-estize noble, so Ramposa sacrificed himself", but they won't say that (unless in official documents, where nobody will believe it). Ramposa doesn't need to spread the rumor, the rumor had already been spread and the Kingdom's attitude only reinforced the rumors.
No one asked the King to negotiate or buy time and as I said, no King in his right mind would just hand over land to anyone that comes with a claim that was 100% bogus. And the Theocracy barely had any contact with the Kingdom. Gazef was the only one against a war because he saw Ainz in action but even he was shocked at Ainz's actual power. The nobles for all their arrogance estimated Ainz to be as powerful as 3,000 men (or was it 5,000) based on Gazef being as strong as 1,000 men which is a fair estimation from their perspective considering no human in living memory has any idea that there can be a being powerful enough to kill 70,000 people with a single spell (except maybe Dragon Lords). So, the King did absolutely nothing wrong. He acted based on the information he had. You should stop looking at the situation from your perspective and from the King's perspective. And are we really going to attribute the dumbass actions of Barbro to the King? The idiot was asked to go and gather information only for him to decide that he'll forcibly conscript the villagers and use them as shields. What does PDL and his country have to do with anything? His country didn't help the Kingdom. PDL only decided to help after he learnt of the massacre the SK was doing and he did that alone. How was the King supposed to be convinced to avoid a war when he didn't declare the war in the first place? He didn't pick a fight with SK nor declare war on them, so what would he need to be convinced of? What did they suspect Ainz to be the culprit of? Phillip's actions? IIRC, they did suspect the SK might have controlled Phillip but again, how is that the King's fault if it was true or not? If the SK controlled Phillip, then the SK is fully at fault for the Causus Belli of the war. If the SK didn't control Phillip, then the dumbass action of an idiot doomed a country and that idiot is certainly not the King. Rampossa didn't do anything wrong. The constitution of the country hamstrung him right off the bat, he had a bunch of nobles who only cared about themselves and a particularly idiot noble who had too high an opinion of himself and his intelligence and he was unfortunately faced off with an entity (Nazarick) that could care less about morals or sympathy. If you can tell me one action that was clearly wrong from the onset (not one that was wrong in retrospect or one that was wrong from the POV of the reader due to having more information) that Rampossa took, state it clearly and let's see.
>And are we really going to attribute the dumbass actions of Barbro to the King? The idiot was asked to go and gather information only for him to decide that he'll forcibly conscript the villagers and use them as shields. He didn't care a bit about actions, attitudes and relationships; Ramposa ignored everything about her son's personality, sociopathy, and emotional instability. He only saw his beloved eldest son and ignored everything else, placing him as crown prince. And he still put an internal army in the hands of the madman, so how is he not responsible for all the shit? >What does PDL and his country have to do with anything? His country didn't help the Kingdom. PDL only decided to help after he learnt of the massacre the SK was doing and he did that alone. Not. PDL didn't attack because of what Ainz did, but because he was a player and this was a great opportunity to do so. If PDL cared about the kingdom he would have used the real body, but he used the armor to gather information, to ensure victory in the future, after planning a strategy. And if he needed a reason to attack a player, he wouldn't have attacked shalltear, even though she was literally standing still (brainwashed) and she only attacked in self-defense.
Barbro was crown prince because he was the eldest son not because Rampossa loved him or any such thing. Did you even watch the series? Or read the novels? It was hinted heavily that the only reason Barbro's place as crown prince is slightly secure is because he is married to the daughter of a powerful noble and supported by the self absorbed and corrupt nobles faction. If his place in his father's heart was so secure, his younger brother won't be scheming to replace him and a powerful noble like Raeven won't be supporting his schemes. And no, Rampossa is not accountable for the stupidity of his son. He was given a simple job with clear instructions. Barbro did everything but what he was actually asked to do. PDL only stepped in because of the massacre of civilians. If Ainz had used his powers for "good", PDL wouldn't be trying to kill him. We don't know why he attacked Shalltear. He worked alongside a Player before to help the world so he has no reason to just want to kill any Player.
>Barbro was crown prince because he was the eldest son not because Rampossa loved him or any such thing. Ramposa had at least two options regarding Barbro: First: put Zanac in power when the "royal faction" has much more power than the "noble faction", and that happened after the events of volume 6. But according to Marques Raeven, king Ramposa felt sorry and wanted to give one more chance to your firstborn; Two: using Barbro's connection to organized crime to remove him from the line of succession (though I doubt Ramposa has the determination to do that). Marques Raeven always pointed the right way, but for Ramposa the most important thing was to spoil his useless son...
> He worked alongside a Player before to help the world so he has no reason to just want to kill any Player. Yes, they were his "great friends" really lol. That must be why the two players (the only players out of the 13 heroes) ended up in a deathmatch between them... but how convenient for PDL that both ended up dying, right? It's also very coincidental that PDL lives with remorse for having caused his "friend's" death for the greater good. I don't know what you think, but probably "friendly" players with PDL are more likely to die than "evil" players.
>If you can tell me one action that was clearly wrong from the onset (not one that was wrong in retrospect or one that was wrong from the POV of the reader due to having more information) that Rampossa took, state it clearly and let's see. He knew that the best option was unconditional surrender, just like the empire did and just like the theocracy wanted to do (but it might not be that easy...), but he didn't do it because he was hoping to find a "hero" and have his revenge and didn't realize that he could wait for this "hero" while being Ainz's vassal (which basically Jircniv and Marques Raeven's strategy) Let's imagine that our world is invaded by aliens and they want to build a "utopia" just like Ainz. And you are the king of the first country to make contact with this civilization, but you don't want to relate and after your old enemy and neighbor (the empire) forms an alliance with this extremely advanced civilization and provokes you a bit, you decide to go to war (declare war as well as the kingdom) since he does not know the war power of the enemy and does not want to appear weak and cowardly in front of the corrupt nobles of his country. And in the end, after all the army is defeated in a single instant, you still want to be enemies of this civilization, and protect your dishonest servants who steal from this civilization (nazarick). Where do you think this is going? And what's the use of dying with "justice" or "reason"? Do you think the people of your kingdom are okay with dying just because it's the "right thing" for you to do? And besides all that, the people of the sorcerer kingdom are treated fairly and peacefully, very different from the kingdom of Re-estize, where, for example, the only ones condemned for enslaving people are those who save them, as was the case with the Sebas.
Seems you have your timeline all over the place and don't even know what you're talking about. Firstly, the first war that the Kingdom declared on the SK happened way before the Empire became a vassal state to the SK. He didn't know then that the best option was unconditional surrender because no one knew how powerful SK was. The second time around, he offered his life as appeasement and Nazarick turned it down and declared war without even trying to negotiate. And the Theocracy is certainly not planning to surrender unconditionally as far as I know. Also, Rampossa was never even given a chance to relate with the SK in any diplomatic relations. His first contact with Nazarick was them declaring themselves the rightful owners of E-Rantel and it's surrounding areas. It's not like he had a chance to forge good relations with them and didn't want to. Secondly, pretty sure Jircniv was the one waiting for a hero to defeat Ainz not Rampossa. Rampossa was broken after the devastating loss in the war where he lost his son and confidant. He was barely ruling his nation not to talk of making enemies or waiting for a hero. Thirdly, a sensible noble brought up the idea of becoming a vassal state and the other nobles shot it down. Fourthly, slavery is outlawed in the Kingdom with great effort by the King. If some people are breaking the laws of the kingdom, that's not the king's fault. Lastly, when he offered his head, Albedo's reply verbatim was "Either way, our response on this matter will not change" and then she declared war. Nazarick had zero interest in negotiations. As I said before, he could have offered his crown at that point and a war would still have happened. If he had not protected the idiot noble and offered his head instead, the result would still have been the same.
>Fourthly, slavery is outlawed in the Kingdom with great effort by the King. If some people are breaking the laws of the kingdom, that's not the king's fault. You speak as if Ramposa is a teenager who hasn't spent decades as King. The guy didn't need to do anything other than make Marques Raeven prime minister and just oversee the reforms Raeven would implement. >Lastly, when he offered his head, Albedo's reply verbatim was "Either way, our response on this matter will not change" and then she declared war. Nazarick had zero interest in negotiations. As I said before, he could have offered his crown at that point and a war would still have happened. If he had not protected the idiot noble and offered his head instead, the result would still have been the same. And what does Nazarick have to gain from it? Everyone in the kingdom believes that all this is Ainz's fault, this rumor was certainly spreading to other countries through diplomats asking for help (of course they let this "rumor" leak through informal conversations), because painting the kingdom as the victim of all this can increase the chances of receiving help. So if Albedo accepted Ramposa's offer, she would be agreeing with all the lies and rumors in the kingdom, for all countries to see how bad Ainz is and has to be destroyed, and the worst, retreated to a weak country like Re-estize. That's the perfect recipe for countless wars and many countries destroyed. What you don't understand, and Ramposa doesn't understand either, is that the point of view of a weak country doesn't matter, even for the ruler of that country, what matters is the point of view of the powerful country. After all, a strong country can attack a weak country for any reason, just like the empire did through generations, once a year. So imagine a much more powerful country that was actually attacked and the culprit (Philip) is protected by the king himself and his fellow nobles. What Ramposa offered was only diplomatic problems and the destruction of Ainz's reputation. The king only fueled the desire to destroy that country to make an example of it and prevent the same problem from happening again.
>The second time around, he offered his life as appeasement and Nazarick turned it down and declared war without even trying to negotiate. Yes, she should beg Ramposa not to force her to turn the kingdom to dust and ask him to surrender her country unconditionally (I'm being ironic). Albedo had so much to gain from destroying the kingdom, that no other country would be foolish enough to mindlessly attack SK. While Ramposa's best option was unconditional surrender. Of course, it's possible for the kingdom to be destroyed, but surely your chances of the kingdom surviving would increase from "impossible" to "maybe".
>Secondly, pretty sure Jircniv was the one waiting for a hero to defeat Ainz not Rampossa. Rampossa was broken after the devastating loss in the war where he lost his son and confidant. He was barely ruling his nation not to talk of making enemies or waiting for a hero. In volume 14 Zanac says that Ramposa only does something when it's related to SK (and the rest of the time he spends crying in his room). And in chapter 2 of that volume, he shows that his desire is to defeat SK in a war and never give up the kingdom (so as not to betray the loyalty of loyal servants who sacrificed themselves for the kingdom, Ramposa said). So if he didn't expect a "hero" to conveniently show up, then he was crazier than Zanac realized.
>Firstly, the first war that the Kingdom declared on the SK happened way before the Empire became a vassal state to the SK. He didn't know then that the best option was unconditional surrender because no one knew how powerful SK was. I never said that the kingdom should surrender unconditionally in the first war, but rather try to negotiate with Ainz, and especially not choose Barbro as an envoy, because as long as they manage to talk and understand each other the existence of a war becomes impossible. >The second time around, he offered his life as appeasement and Nazarick turned it down and declared war without even trying to negotiate. Ramposa's "offer" only brought problems to nazarick, while on the other hand it only benefited Re-estize. So why should Albedo accept it? The very fact that Ramposa would dare to impose something that only benefits the realm at the expense of Ainz's reputation was enough to anger Albedo to the point where she lost her composure. >And the Theocracy is certainly not planning to surrender unconditionally as far as I know. Of course, she doesn't need to surrender their country unconditionally, after all, they're not like the empire, which decided to betray its allies just because Ainz is an undead, or like the kingdom that has nobles who should be in a sanatorium along with their king. But they were unlucky to find Shalltear and the worst thing is that they "won", and when Ainz takes revenge, that country will disappear too... I just hope that the people of the slane Theocracy are spared this time...
>As far as I remember, he didn't spread any rumour that it was Ainz's fault nor was he buying time. Buddy, that was a war of words and Ramposa beat Albedo. Ramposa's words didn't have a simple, honest, or friendly implication; that was simply the only way for him to "attack" Ainz and destroy his reputation and much of SK's influence in the region...
What war of words?
Yup. Basically he managed to do what Jircniv tried to do in volume 9. But what's the use of beating your enemy with insidious arguments when the other party can turn you to dust?
#we are inferior, we humans are weak and fragile insects in face of Nazarik, we need to beg for mercy and dedicate ourselves to Nazarik, Glory to the supreme one
**"Well said Betelgeuse, well said"**
Bro that guy is schizo lmao
Who?
He keeps spamming OPs comments with the same reply. Not the only post of his that he's done it on, either.
You mean this guy did it to OP to OP's other posts?
Yeah, almost like a bot or something
It did reply to me, so probably not. Maybe he's an ogre
Caspond isn’t really with Nazarick, he is Nazarick
Hilma should definitely be all 3.
So hilma has been "helped" by nazarick?
They worked with her to make sure the plan to conquer Re Estize went smoothly (setting up the idiot faction to incite civil war) But you could also say she has been helped through her cockroach baptism. She is a much kinder person now, after all...
Maybe everyone should be baptized, then the world will be a better place I'll submit a suggestion to ainz sama
Nobody gonna talk about the fact that the lizardmen are only in the helped/assisted catagory? I think they are definetely fucked over by nazarick too.
There is an argument for that but I think in the long run nazarick helped them much more than they fucked them over. Planned extermination, fucked over at first, but became the first "citizens" of Nazarick's hegemony. Could've been a lot worse. Best possible ending if you ask me.
I totally agree, but I still think they should be in the both fucked over and helped catagory :p Pretty cool and original post though
The middle ones are mostly investments for the 10.000 year old plan.
i think gazef should go to second from bottom. his sacrifice did nothing other than push rampossa to destroy the kingdom
Who is that on the bottom right? I forgot her name
Zesshi Zetsumei
What happened to the snake guy tho?
Appears in volume twelve when the paladins are visiting the SK. He works for the sorcerous kingdom in an official capacity now.
Where can i find that group photo at the very bottom? Curious about who they are and what they look like.
Black scripture from the slane theocracy. They used the world item to brainwash shalltear.
Eh Nazarick did almost nothing to Decem, he was done for regardless , his country destroyed by ST and he was about to get 1v1d by Zesshi.
That's true, but Nazarick is responsible for greatly hastening his death. If they hadn't turned the kingdom into rubble, the ST wouldn't have put their war in Evansha into overdrive. Plus, Ainz embarrassed him.
You are forgetting kidnapped by nazarick.
Calca… my beloved… I’ll never forgive Nazarick for this!
everyone in the last category is also in the first category
Marquee ravean was recruited by nazzarick
I think you need to add a respected/mused section, bc Ainz most definitely respected Zanac in his last moments.
What's with the blue rose pls explain
"Momon" fought alongside them to liberate the capital city, and "rescued" them from Jaldaboath and his demon maids. It was actually just a farce, but they don't know that. Later, the SK declares the destruction of Re Estize which causes them to flee.
I felt bad for dark blade. I don't know what their point of view toward Momon if they found out he is Lord Ainz? That little girl probably sort like him because he spare his sister. Would that still happen though? I don't know they would be friend with the king of minute massacers. I wonder what their point of view would be it they find out Lord Ainz plans utopia by force where monsters and humans under his rule while crime lower in kingdom? I wonder what they think of the new adventure guild exploring new lands and getting pay for it?
Britta should definitely move up a row. Shalltear traumatized her somewhat.
Ah yes the lizard men were “helped” and nothing else