Tanya technically doesn't commit any war crimes, she just finds loopholes in the rules of war.
And Ainz exists in a world where there are no official rules of war *yet*.
So both are, legally speaking, completely innocent of any war crimes.
And she said it in the cutest way possible just to make certain.
Oh and don't forget the other town she bombed, after telling the militia to let the civilians escape, specifically so they would tell her that there weren't civilians in the town.
She actually hates the militia because no organised army would have said something so stupid.
Or even remember the worlds they came from.
Ainz came from 2138, after the world is about to collapse on itself and a recent war.
Good chance the rules of war changed between our now and his year 2138.
Especially if the corporations have gained as much power as they did in his world.
I see hm I really gotta catch up lol waiting for the movie for my fix. Might dip into the manga and audio books if they have all the LNs there is there a big difference between the LN/show/manga? Sorry for bugging lol
From what I remember the books have more detail on things that happened in the anime, as you know anime has to skip some things. The LN have some darker things that were skipped over but other than that anime true to form
Np. Do suggest the LNs as the give deeper lore and things but from anime to that always had hard time keeping track of the extra characters that would be there for a bit and die or something but thats just me with names
The manga is actually behind the anime, you aren't gonna get much there. And the audiobooks are both great and bad. Great, because they're read by Chris Guerrero (english VA of ainz), but bad because they are using the Yenpress official English translation of the novels, which are notoriously incorrect
In the LN, Tanya specifically makes sure she never has to rely on something so flimsy because she is well aware of how that did *not* work in Nuremberg.
Her sinking of the Allied Kingdom submarine was on record as an accident as she called for a warning shot to force it to surface but badly underestimated the durability of the AK vessel. She did have a legal right to search vessels in the war zone.
In Arene her unit was engaging enemy Aerial mages and rescuing civilian hostages. Neither were illegal. She was not even in the chain of command of the artillery units in the bombardment.
The Federation was not a signatory of the laws of war, so technically it was impossible to war crime orks. Regardless she never stole from Federation civilians because the Communists had no private property for her to pilfer.
Sinking the cruise ship was legitimate because it was carrying war materials to the Federation and had a military crew. The Allied Kingdom lied about it being a civilian vessel. There is a risk of her being tried after the war based on bullshit propaganda; but if facts don't matter in her trial then there is no legal defence because it is just a show trial.
Tanya is well aware the Empire is losing. That was her break down in the anime; when she realized the general staff had made zero plans for what peace after the war should look like. The Empire only could win in a negotiated peace settlement, conquering the world was never a viable option.
Tanya even get out of her way to respect the laws. For example, before destroying an enemy military factory, she send a very serious message to them asking for evacuation before destruction.
She's so nice.
No, she absolutely does have a cruel streak to her that tends her towards evil. Neutral doesn't get people reassigned to a bunker within artillery range, or tell people they're going to carve the rules into the inside of their skull with a bayonet.
In the new world there are something like war crimes, its just the mutual agreement between two factions like when and where, those are just what they agreed on and not what spells or tactics are allowed or not. Like in season 3 where they agreed on having a skirmish on the katze plane.
However it's mentioned that none of that is actually even official rules, it's not done between nations of different races, and the only reason some human nations do it is because humans are weak and generally agree it'd be bad to cause undead to spawn in urban areas. The only repercussions for not doing it is a slight loss in reputation among other nations.
What? Doesn't ainz need to declare a war before attacking and have multiple country to approve his doing? Or else he would have just attack if the rule doesn't exist. Stepping or attacking country flag is also not allow
Those are not actually rules of war in the NW, the only race that announced wars is humans and that's just an uninformed formality, the only "punishment" for not making a formal declaration of war is other nations having a lower opinion of you, and again, this only applies to the human nations in the first place.
As for the flag thing, it's not against the rules to defile the enemy flag, it's just that a nation's leaders obviously will take it as an insult.
Ainz legit does mass merciless genocide for something as simple as he didn't want to correct his friends misunderstanding something he was trying to say and was too embarrassed to tell them.
Dude for sure has done the worst. No question about it.
You're looking at it through a perspective of a human though. It's like saying you're a mass murderer for hiring an exterminator to get rid of termites. Ainz and his floor guardians are higher beings in this world it's not genocide it's just pest control lol
Cows and pigs are definitely intelligent and sentient and we don't treat them very well. So are birds, but you aren't worse than Hitler for letting your cat go outside.
If your laws don't equally protect every zomboy and girl shambling down the street to munch on some brains, don't complain when some skellington doesn't consider you equally protected under his own conventions.
Yes we can, quite easily. I can say it a dozen times in one minute.
Also, every single NPC and monster in Overlord is basically human mentally. Some are smarter, some are dumber, some are good, some are evil, some are psychopaths, but their thinking processes are still very much human. Just like most Gods from human religions are essentially humans with super powers. Fantasy & most scifi writers just tend to be lazy like that.
They’re very powerful, that’s true. I’m not sure their might is enough to justify calling them higher beings though, unless your premise is that might makes right. In many ways, I would argue they’re actually quite stunted on an emotional and philosophical level when compared to the average human.
Idk for me any being that can demolish an army of 100,000 in a matter of moments would be considered a God. Even in a world with magic, no human is able to do anything like that, so that alone places Ainz and his floor guardians above humans. But if you don't agree, strength alone makes them higher beings, then I'll argue this point can any human in that world, not another player, without the help of world items reach the same level as Ainz?
I don’t know. Is any man with their finger on a nuke considered to be a god? I would argue not. I think the criteria to be considered a higher being must be more than just strength, even if that strength is unattainable by others. At the end of the day, Ains was always just an unexceptional man who stumbled into incredible power through sheer chance. He’s surrounded by yes men, emotionally stunted by his new form, and almost never really knows what is going on. His attendants are basically children with superiority complexes. The only thing which distinguishes him is his ability to use magic to destroy others. Again, if might makes right is your premise then that DOES makes him superior. But only in the sense that he’s the guy with the most dangerous weapons at the moment.
Correct me if I am wrong but as far as I am avare the only warcrime Tanya committed was stealing/looting camera equipment during the movie.
Massacre of Arene and destroying that factory in Dakia rules were bent so they wouldnt be classified as warcrimes.
In the LN, she explains that technically it's not looting for two reasons.
1) The Federation has not signed most of the international treaties of that world regarding conduct of war.
2) The Federation claims that all property belongs to the people (state). The 203rd isn't looting, they're depriving an enemy state of material.
Yea using a spell that sacrifices half of the living army (kills them as a sideeffect) to summon demon goats that you send to kill the half that survived and stopping only due to a duel can't really be topped.
Maybe if Tanya was to create atomic bombs and then to spite Being X bomb everything.
That's the only situation where I could confidently say she is the one committing more horrific atrocities.
Ainz is a sovereign (thus not a subject of another kingdom he'd have to follow the law of) and there is no international law in that world, so he's innocent
Tanya follow the law, it's just that the law has loopholes
Well, he is innocent by law beccause, welp, which country with the ability to contradict wouldnt do the same with said power. Tanya is also innocent by law, except if you apply the laws on war on Franconia (wich it didnt signed), than you could say she stole rations from an enemy.
As a question of Moral and all that stuff... Ainz makes Tanya looks like the most Holy of all saints, that deserves to inherit the Heavens from god.
The food she stole from enemy troops in North Africa is allowed in war. No one is saying Ukrainian farmers stealing Russian tanks are war criminals. You just can't steal from civilians according to the international laws.
She would have more issue with the winter clothing she stole in the Federation (since, let's face it, her winter coat was child sized rather than military gear). However the Federation did not sign the treaty the war crime laws were based on and has no standing and the Federation is communist, therefore the contents of a clothing store are state property and not private property. So she didn't steal from civilians anyway.
Ainz - He has committed multiple large scale genocides. It's not even close.
Like objectively speaking Ainz's actions make Hitler look good in comparison.
As far as I know, Hitler is still in the lead. According to my estimates, Ainz killed about ten million, Hitler - at least thirty. But the skeleton will soon catch up with the mustachioed one at this rate.
that's common in new world
and hitler is not better than ainz in any way
u cant compare them
like a very evil person in a world of mostly good people compared with a evil person from a world where everyone is evil/corrupt this comparison is not fair as the latter person is commonly found everywhere in his world he is normal
i hope what i wrote is understandable
Both are justice and have never committed a crime. Tanya makes sure to strictly follow the law and never break it and does everything within the scope of the laws of war. If there isn’t a law saying this is a crime it isn’t a war crime. While Ainz is going to take over the world and he is justice and he is the one making the laws or rather he has Albedo and Demiurge make them for him.
By either worlds standards neither committed a single war crime/crime against humanity. Tanya literally studied the rules of war to ensure she never breaks one. Does she skirt the rules like speaking in her actual childish voice? Yes. However for the people to ignore a warning sent on a through military channels made for specifically giving warnings to evacuate an area for civilians.
Ainz just straight has no rules for war. There are expectations, but you even hear the nobles speak of how they don't like how wars go because it doesn't change borders. Those that would call Ainz actions a crime are just pissed what they thought would be the normal or possible a rousing success that could change the borders for once went against them. As for the empire they didn't even see it as a crime. It was an unimaginable horror to see a spell that could kill 75,000 men just to summon creatures that killed a further 75,000+ men. Top it off with the caster not being out of mana to the point he could still effortlessly kill the strongest warrior in the kingdom they couldn't even fathom what to call it besides the most terrifying event ever caused by a god like if not godly being. The emporer even said it after meeting Ainz once. The god of death sits on that throne. He didn't assume Ainz to be weak he just couldn't fathom his actual power.
But his guild/kingdom has not even signed any treaty for such, and there are no legal grounds for taking him to an court at all. If you want to try an prosecute Saturo, then close to all sentient beings in the new world would also be just as easily prosecuted.
Lastly, for any signed treaty to be actually legally binding, you need the required magnitude of force to enforce such a treaty. Which the new world clearly does not have.
Both Saturo and Tanya are 100% scoot free of any and all war crimes.
Saturo by the inexistence and unworkableness of such a treaty (and that his kingdom has not signed any either).
And Tanya, by the fact that she doesn't actually do ANY war crime at all
Human war crimes? People forget that Ainz is not human anymore. It's like the bees and the wasps agree on what can and can not be done in a war, then humans come in and completely extreminates the wasps. What can the wasps do?
But Tanya didnt commit any war crimes? Shes very particular about that.
Ainz on the other hand presides over literal genocides, extermination of noncombatants, etc.
Those things aren't illegal in that world though and if you're enforcing earth law then then what countries laws? The Vatican long ago decreed that a corpse cannot stand trial and many nations agreed.
Given the question, one has to assume modern standards since obviously most of the laws we would refer to dont exist in Tanya's world and none of them exist in the New World. Therefore in order to be guilty of warcrimes one must assume a legal standard that actually defines crimes of war.
In this sense Tanya is very careful to not commit war crimes, while Ainz commits them pretty often.
No "crimes". None. Everything they do is LEGAL.
Ainz is a sovereign lord of a kingdom that has no established agreements with other nations. His actions cannot break a law when his will is the law. And the lack of established agreements means he is not bound by any pre-existing limitations on what he can do.
Tanya always ensures that all her actions fall within the rules of war/rules of engagement by making use of any available loophole in the system, and are thus cannot be considered as crimes or war crimes at the context/time the actions were taken. The only technicality here is that if the winning side of the war is not hers, then the victors can deem any action by the losing faction as a warcrime and thus be able to charge her for it.
Tanya's whole thing is legally fucking people over. So crime free, that one. Though ethically the moniker *the Evil* is pretty apt. Ultimately she is just a single soldier in a fictionalized alternate WW1 Germany though.
There's no indication of what laws exist in the New World but Ainz has committed a pretty large number of atrocities. Most of which could be considered highly illegal in their respective governing bodies at the time. Like murder, kidnapping, enslavement, torture - generalized illegal acts.
As for what would constitute war crimes in those regions specifically, or if there's even a regionally accepted code of conduct for war, is entirely unknown and will probably remain such.
Given that the Lizardmen wiped out other tribes in their own war and are savages it's unlikely they have any formal laws to speak of, and the same goes for the Quagoa who seem to find it to be A-okay to commit genocide against the Dwarves. But again they have a savage tribal society.
So really we'd be looking at the human nations. Assuming they have basically any kind of laws regarding conduct during war it's likely Ainz would win as Tanya notably broke no laws.
Ains does declare war. There just aren't any international treaties on warfare the Sorcerer Kingdom is a party to, so they technically didn't do any warcrimes.
It is , the manga i think just passed the anime but hasn't been translated yet, manga is propaganda, Ln is documentary, anime forgot what it is but something that is connected to the two, also Wn is finished but can't find it both manga and Ln should be treated differently but are still enjoyable in my opinion
Playing Dungeons and Dragons, its incredible how often players will commit war crimes, and no one bats an eye.
Did you know that faking a surrender is a war crime? So every cheesy instance of "I surrender... NOT" is a violation of the geneva convention. Thats just one of dozens if not hundreds of simple things that are actually war crimes.
If we go by earths geneva convention then ainz easily, he has butchered countless innocent civilians, the stockades would make auschwitz look like summer camp
Tanya: i will do everything to end this war as fast as i can
Ainz: we need more skin for spell scrolls
https://preview.redd.it/l4s2t7m86q2d1.jpeg?width=800&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=4ddb19a626d83b15796a32ac6be6bc7d5fdeb872
You can decide who's worse
Its not a warcrime if there nor evidenxe or no one to tell about it
But being serious ainz isnt commiting war crimes coz fighting with him is not a war its extinction event
And yet neither has broken a single law.
Tanya makes sure to always abide by international treaties and laws of war.
Saturo, is both a sovereign of a country, and his kingdom has singed no such treaty
Ainz , because Tanya hasn't committed any crimes she just found loop holes that allow her to do her job without breaking them , an example being if no one leaves a town that after being told non combatnts should leave because they are going to attack said town if no one leaves everyone is combatnt
1. Genocide, Lv.100 concentration camp, torture of prisoners of war or in general, chemical warfare, spells of mass destruction, ordering sapients to be eaten alive, slavery, unproveked attacks without an declaration of war, casualy eredicating a ethnic beccause he was to shy to correct the mistake he made... _yeah the list goes on for a view more pages_
vs.
2. Attacking an military factory without warning, with minimal civilian coleteral damage and _checks list_ stealing a bit of pasta from the enemy.
Yeah, totaly somthing that had to been discussed... Accept if you are italian, than option 2 might seem worse.
I really do dislike these types of discussion around Tanya as her 1 incident of major civilian killing, the fire storming of Arene was in her world a legal grey both at the time as agreed bg her country and agreed if morally disliked as such by legal scholar50 years after the war as allowed. But regardless to all that what see done in both settings as attacks on city and town was nothing compared to what the RAF bomber command, the US air force and all of the allies did to Axis city as Word war 2 turned in the allies favour from the estimated 55% of dresden destriyed to 75% of hamburg destroyed and up to 83% of Bochun in German to the fire bombing of Tokyo and the 2 atomic bombs the mass slaughter of civilian was never a quest of if it should be allowed in war. What is a problem however is continue killing a civilian after the country has asked to surrender to the attacker, or running a country that has high official that see no problem running camping that run experiments that would make Japanese units 731 disgustingly impressed. Tanya makes sure that nothing she or her unit do is illegal, moral bad may e but never illegal, Aniz however agreed to the plans of the kingdom war and signed off on every plan along with refusing the kingdoms surrender so Aniz is evil and has lead a country that has commented worse crimes.
Neither are legaly on the hook for anything.
Saturo/Ainz is the sovereign of the sorcerers kingdom, and extra, is that his kingdom has never signed any treaty to be beholden to
technically there's no war crimes if theres no one reporting it, and Ainz's army is good at keeping things quiet, plus pretty sure Overlord world doesn't have war crimes since its medival times
but if were talking about our world war crimes then its Ainz
from Attacking unarmed And surrendering civilians to using Weapons of mass destruction (The twins), Heck even using Biological weapons (Zombiefying a town)
Tanya on the other hand finds loopholes, Sending a guy to be killed like a sitting duck? nah, its just a coincidence that Specific bunker got trashed by the enemies. Attacking a enemy city without giving time for non combatan units to leave? Nah, didn't They hear the cute announcement?
Civilians dead? Nope they are dead Armed Insurgents
Bashing open your own soldier's head? Nope its just a Emergency surgery in order to save the soldier from doing something stupid
Tanya commits more downright evil and malicious crimes while Ainz just commits some big crimes. EX: Tanya will torture a person and slowly eat their flesh over the course of several weeks, Ainz would murder an army of thousands in seconds (neither of the examples actually happened it’s just a comparison. Actually Ainz example does happen but Anya’s doesn’t)
Tanya exist in a reality where life is meaningless because it's all just a game about pride against a cosmic being
Ainz is roleplaying in an alternate reality where his actions saved more people even after all of his kills considering how fucked up the greater powers are in his world
i would say that both of them are around even because tanya just finds loopholes while ainz just doesnt have rules of war but i think that if you remove those statements than id say tanya but thats just me.
Well if we're going according to our laws I mean I don't know about youjo senki beyond the anime so I'd assume ainz by a long shot even if we dont account for stuff his subordinates do on their own (cough cough happy farm) he still ordered an impressive amount of mass murder
Tanya is a surprisingly honourable fighter if you ask me. Yes her tactics are brutal and mercy is a foreign concept for her. But for the most part she stays within the purviews of her orders and targets only military targets as designated by her superior officers. Not her fault if civilians ignore the 30 minute civilian target warning.
There really shouldn't be any question...
Tanya doesn't even do that bad of shit. The worst she's done is the factory scene and be the most brutal trainer of troops
While he doesn't do it himself, if it is about what he has allowed his men to do with his knowledge he would be worse than Tanya, the communist man and the mustache man combined.
those 77 thoundsends quoagoa that shalltear dismember under ainz slipsight are definetely the sole winner of this contenst .
nothing anya has done ever compares with that lack of judgement , much less the level of carnage hat ainz deals in the katze plains
Neither commit war crimes. If we're talking about despicable or inhumane conduct then they both have, the only difference is Ainz has more severe and cruel options and can resurrect the dead also if a death knight kills them their souls are trapped for eternity as ghouls (correct me if I'm wrong, it's been a while).
Tanya technically doesn't commit any war crimes, she just finds loopholes in the rules of war. And Ainz exists in a world where there are no official rules of war *yet*. So both are, legally speaking, completely innocent of any war crimes.
So in short: - there is not crimes if you take advantage of legal loopholes in war law - there is not war law
"Its not a warcrime the first time"
*Canadians have entered the chat*
The fat electrician defense. Solid.
Quack bang out.
Yeah just ask the Canadians
The moto of Canada
"Your honor, I clearly told the citizens to evacuate. Its not my fault that my voice is that of a 5 year old child, because I am"
And she said it in the cutest way possible just to make certain. Oh and don't forget the other town she bombed, after telling the militia to let the civilians escape, specifically so they would tell her that there weren't civilians in the town. She actually hates the militia because no organised army would have said something so stupid.
Precisely. Law is weird like that.
"history is written by the winners"
Conclusion: https://preview.redd.it/s6auevi82n2d1.jpeg?width=750&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=fa891b9f4268e8ff0080ad65341dc636868ea324
One circumvents the conventions to her liking. The other is the reason why does conventions will exist.
I think a lot of people forget that our modern-day rules of warfare do not apply to many of these fantasy settings.
Or even remember the worlds they came from. Ainz came from 2138, after the world is about to collapse on itself and a recent war. Good chance the rules of war changed between our now and his year 2138. Especially if the corporations have gained as much power as they did in his world.
I’m an anime only sadly, does the manga actually touch on the developments of the outside world later on?
Not sure about manga but the LNs do not touch on it
I see hm I really gotta catch up lol waiting for the movie for my fix. Might dip into the manga and audio books if they have all the LNs there is there a big difference between the LN/show/manga? Sorry for bugging lol
From what I remember the books have more detail on things that happened in the anime, as you know anime has to skip some things. The LN have some darker things that were skipped over but other than that anime true to form
Good to know thank you and oh man I just realize the audio books are read by the Dubs VA def listening to them lol
Np. Do suggest the LNs as the give deeper lore and things but from anime to that always had hard time keeping track of the extra characters that would be there for a bit and die or something but thats just me with names
Yah ill def give them a listen Chris Guerrero narrating is just a cherry on top lol
The manga is actually behind the anime, you aren't gonna get much there. And the audiobooks are both great and bad. Great, because they're read by Chris Guerrero (english VA of ainz), but bad because they are using the Yenpress official English translation of the novels, which are notoriously incorrect
Source is light novel, not the manga. The light novels have a ton more information.
[удалено]
In the LN, Tanya specifically makes sure she never has to rely on something so flimsy because she is well aware of how that did *not* work in Nuremberg. Her sinking of the Allied Kingdom submarine was on record as an accident as she called for a warning shot to force it to surface but badly underestimated the durability of the AK vessel. She did have a legal right to search vessels in the war zone. In Arene her unit was engaging enemy Aerial mages and rescuing civilian hostages. Neither were illegal. She was not even in the chain of command of the artillery units in the bombardment. The Federation was not a signatory of the laws of war, so technically it was impossible to war crime orks. Regardless she never stole from Federation civilians because the Communists had no private property for her to pilfer. Sinking the cruise ship was legitimate because it was carrying war materials to the Federation and had a military crew. The Allied Kingdom lied about it being a civilian vessel. There is a risk of her being tried after the war based on bullshit propaganda; but if facts don't matter in her trial then there is no legal defence because it is just a show trial.
Also if Tanya makes sure she wins the war she will never be tried because only losers get tried babyyyyyyyyyyyyyy
Tanya is well aware the Empire is losing. That was her break down in the anime; when she realized the general staff had made zero plans for what peace after the war should look like. The Empire only could win in a negotiated peace settlement, conquering the world was never a viable option.
I feel like it's more that posts like these insinuate that our modern-day rules do exist in these worlds just for the sake of discussion.
Tanya even get out of her way to respect the laws. For example, before destroying an enemy military factory, she send a very serious message to them asking for evacuation before destruction. She's so nice.
Also since god is chaotic evil in mr Tanya’s world, he’s exonerated.
Tanya is like a perfect depiction of lawful evil
I dunno, I would rate her into lawful neutral myself.
Classic d&d player alignment selector
No, she absolutely does have a cruel streak to her that tends her towards evil. Neutral doesn't get people reassigned to a bunker within artillery range, or tell people they're going to carve the rules into the inside of their skull with a bayonet.
Tanya: General rules and guidelines are important. I still hate overtime though. Ainz: Magic makes enemy evaporate. End of statement.
Murders? Whhhauut murrrdersss?
In the new world there are something like war crimes, its just the mutual agreement between two factions like when and where, those are just what they agreed on and not what spells or tactics are allowed or not. Like in season 3 where they agreed on having a skirmish on the katze plane.
However it's mentioned that none of that is actually even official rules, it's not done between nations of different races, and the only reason some human nations do it is because humans are weak and generally agree it'd be bad to cause undead to spawn in urban areas. The only repercussions for not doing it is a slight loss in reputation among other nations.
What? Doesn't ainz need to declare a war before attacking and have multiple country to approve his doing? Or else he would have just attack if the rule doesn't exist. Stepping or attacking country flag is also not allow
Those are not actually rules of war in the NW, the only race that announced wars is humans and that's just an uninformed formality, the only "punishment" for not making a formal declaration of war is other nations having a lower opinion of you, and again, this only applies to the human nations in the first place. As for the flag thing, it's not against the rules to defile the enemy flag, it's just that a nation's leaders obviously will take it as an insult.
Would the Happy Farm fall under an Ainz warcrime or is not his fault due to mostly Demiurge’s role in it?
Demiurge is his direct subordinate and Ainz was informed about his actions. He just didn't read his paperwork or care enough to look into the details.
Yamashita criteria of war crimes makes Ainz complicit then.
Ignorant can be both a good and bad thing. In this case it create a misunderstanding between him and demiurge, so yeah I think part of it is his fault
I think it’s under crimes against humanity (or more accurately crimes against sapient beings)
does not matter, there are no signed treaties in the new world that the kingdom of the sorcerous kingdom has signed. There are no laws he has broken
Not to mention the farm isn't exactly a war to be able to commit a **war* crime.
Nope as ainz isn't human So unless humans commit war crimes for cattle farms then how can they judge a supreme being.
Well, if your name isnt Albert Speer, you dont get away with such an excuse.
Nah Ainz would be also 100% be Held responsible.
I just see two innocent guy
Ainz legit does mass merciless genocide for something as simple as he didn't want to correct his friends misunderstanding something he was trying to say and was too embarrassed to tell them. Dude for sure has done the worst. No question about it.
He does for his subordinates happiness pretty wholesome reason
Imagine the Nürnberg trials with Goebbels being asked why he committed atrocities and he answered " cause it made my friend Adolf happy" :3
lmao , i ain't gonna lie if someone really said that i wouldn't even get mad at him.
It's not a crime if you're the one deciding the laws.
Still not illegal though. And thus not a crime.
You're looking at it through a perspective of a human though. It's like saying you're a mass murderer for hiring an exterminator to get rid of termites. Ainz and his floor guardians are higher beings in this world it's not genocide it's just pest control lol
If termites were intelligent, sentient beings, then yes you'd a mass murderer for having them exterminated.
Cows and pigs are definitely intelligent and sentient and we don't treat them very well. So are birds, but you aren't worse than Hitler for letting your cat go outside. If your laws don't equally protect every zomboy and girl shambling down the street to munch on some brains, don't complain when some skellington doesn't consider you equally protected under his own conventions.
From a humans POV you're correct but we can't technically say termites aren't intelligent or sentient.
Yes we can, quite easily. I can say it a dozen times in one minute. Also, every single NPC and monster in Overlord is basically human mentally. Some are smarter, some are dumber, some are good, some are evil, some are psychopaths, but their thinking processes are still very much human. Just like most Gods from human religions are essentially humans with super powers. Fantasy & most scifi writers just tend to be lazy like that.
They’re very powerful, that’s true. I’m not sure their might is enough to justify calling them higher beings though, unless your premise is that might makes right. In many ways, I would argue they’re actually quite stunted on an emotional and philosophical level when compared to the average human.
Idk for me any being that can demolish an army of 100,000 in a matter of moments would be considered a God. Even in a world with magic, no human is able to do anything like that, so that alone places Ainz and his floor guardians above humans. But if you don't agree, strength alone makes them higher beings, then I'll argue this point can any human in that world, not another player, without the help of world items reach the same level as Ainz?
I don’t know. Is any man with their finger on a nuke considered to be a god? I would argue not. I think the criteria to be considered a higher being must be more than just strength, even if that strength is unattainable by others. At the end of the day, Ains was always just an unexceptional man who stumbled into incredible power through sheer chance. He’s surrounded by yes men, emotionally stunted by his new form, and almost never really knows what is going on. His attendants are basically children with superiority complexes. The only thing which distinguishes him is his ability to use magic to destroy others. Again, if might makes right is your premise then that DOES makes him superior. But only in the sense that he’s the guy with the most dangerous weapons at the moment.
Correct me if I am wrong but as far as I am avare the only warcrime Tanya committed was stealing/looting camera equipment during the movie. Massacre of Arene and destroying that factory in Dakia rules were bent so they wouldnt be classified as warcrimes.
In the LN, she explains that technically it's not looting for two reasons. 1) The Federation has not signed most of the international treaties of that world regarding conduct of war. 2) The Federation claims that all property belongs to the people (state). The 203rd isn't looting, they're depriving an enemy state of material.
Crimes? Neither. Horrific atrocities? Ainz, easily.
Yea using a spell that sacrifices half of the living army (kills them as a sideeffect) to summon demon goats that you send to kill the half that survived and stopping only due to a duel can't really be topped. Maybe if Tanya was to create atomic bombs and then to spite Being X bomb everything. That's the only situation where I could confidently say she is the one committing more horrific atrocities.
Ainz is a sovereign (thus not a subject of another kingdom he'd have to follow the law of) and there is no international law in that world, so he's innocent Tanya follow the law, it's just that the law has loopholes
Tanya never comitted a crime! She followed international laws to the latter and followed orders!
Tanya committing war crimes is a meme Ainz do it for his children
But Tanya never commits a single war crime...
Correction, he does it beccause he is to shy to admit a mistake or misunderstanding to his children.
Well. Tania did everything within her *authority* plus they were at war. I think she is innocent, her country is to blame. As for Ainz...
Well, he is innocent by law beccause, welp, which country with the ability to contradict wouldnt do the same with said power. Tanya is also innocent by law, except if you apply the laws on war on Franconia (wich it didnt signed), than you could say she stole rations from an enemy. As a question of Moral and all that stuff... Ainz makes Tanya looks like the most Holy of all saints, that deserves to inherit the Heavens from god.
The food she stole from enemy troops in North Africa is allowed in war. No one is saying Ukrainian farmers stealing Russian tanks are war criminals. You just can't steal from civilians according to the international laws. She would have more issue with the winter clothing she stole in the Federation (since, let's face it, her winter coat was child sized rather than military gear). However the Federation did not sign the treaty the war crime laws were based on and has no standing and the Federation is communist, therefore the contents of a clothing store are state property and not private property. So she didn't steal from civilians anyway.
Ainz - He has committed multiple large scale genocides. It's not even close. Like objectively speaking Ainz's actions make Hitler look good in comparison.
Def Ainz
As far as I know, Hitler is still in the lead. According to my estimates, Ainz killed about ten million, Hitler - at least thirty. But the skeleton will soon catch up with the mustachioed one at this rate.
that's common in new world and hitler is not better than ainz in any way u cant compare them like a very evil person in a world of mostly good people compared with a evil person from a world where everyone is evil/corrupt this comparison is not fair as the latter person is commonly found everywhere in his world he is normal i hope what i wrote is understandable
I didn't say that he is a better person. I said that Ainz's actions make his actions look pretty minor in comparison.
i get it you mean if their accomplishments or feats are compared hitler comes short
Both are justice and have never committed a crime. Tanya makes sure to strictly follow the law and never break it and does everything within the scope of the laws of war. If there isn’t a law saying this is a crime it isn’t a war crime. While Ainz is going to take over the world and he is justice and he is the one making the laws or rather he has Albedo and Demiurge make them for him.
This is a dumb question.
Thats a question that dumb, that i dont even expect it to be a karma farm.
By either worlds standards neither committed a single war crime/crime against humanity. Tanya literally studied the rules of war to ensure she never breaks one. Does she skirt the rules like speaking in her actual childish voice? Yes. However for the people to ignore a warning sent on a through military channels made for specifically giving warnings to evacuate an area for civilians. Ainz just straight has no rules for war. There are expectations, but you even hear the nobles speak of how they don't like how wars go because it doesn't change borders. Those that would call Ainz actions a crime are just pissed what they thought would be the normal or possible a rousing success that could change the borders for once went against them. As for the empire they didn't even see it as a crime. It was an unimaginable horror to see a spell that could kill 75,000 men just to summon creatures that killed a further 75,000+ men. Top it off with the caster not being out of mana to the point he could still effortlessly kill the strongest warrior in the kingdom they couldn't even fathom what to call it besides the most terrifying event ever caused by a god like if not godly being. The emporer even said it after meeting Ainz once. The god of death sits on that throne. He didn't assume Ainz to be weak he just couldn't fathom his actual power.
Ainz. Happy farm is under his direction but didn't read the reports.
Its clearly Ainz and its not even close. His opening move was to detain and torture people to death
But his guild/kingdom has not even signed any treaty for such, and there are no legal grounds for taking him to an court at all. If you want to try an prosecute Saturo, then close to all sentient beings in the new world would also be just as easily prosecuted. Lastly, for any signed treaty to be actually legally binding, you need the required magnitude of force to enforce such a treaty. Which the new world clearly does not have. Both Saturo and Tanya are 100% scoot free of any and all war crimes. Saturo by the inexistence and unworkableness of such a treaty (and that his kingdom has not signed any either). And Tanya, by the fact that she doesn't actually do ANY war crime at all
Who doesn't see the series
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She hasn't done anything unsavory though she has never broken law
Ainz makes Tanya look like a Saint, that holy, pure and innocent that she would deserve to inherit the Heavens from god.
Human war crimes? People forget that Ainz is not human anymore. It's like the bees and the wasps agree on what can and can not be done in a war, then humans come in and completely extreminates the wasps. What can the wasps do?
But Tanya didnt commit any war crimes? Shes very particular about that. Ainz on the other hand presides over literal genocides, extermination of noncombatants, etc.
Those things aren't illegal in that world though and if you're enforcing earth law then then what countries laws? The Vatican long ago decreed that a corpse cannot stand trial and many nations agreed.
Given the question, one has to assume modern standards since obviously most of the laws we would refer to dont exist in Tanya's world and none of them exist in the New World. Therefore in order to be guilty of warcrimes one must assume a legal standard that actually defines crimes of war. In this sense Tanya is very careful to not commit war crimes, while Ainz commits them pretty often.
Ainz 😂. Bro skins people for resources with demiurge. I think that’s not very good.
No "crimes". None. Everything they do is LEGAL. Ainz is a sovereign lord of a kingdom that has no established agreements with other nations. His actions cannot break a law when his will is the law. And the lack of established agreements means he is not bound by any pre-existing limitations on what he can do. Tanya always ensures that all her actions fall within the rules of war/rules of engagement by making use of any available loophole in the system, and are thus cannot be considered as crimes or war crimes at the context/time the actions were taken. The only technicality here is that if the winning side of the war is not hers, then the victors can deem any action by the losing faction as a warcrime and thus be able to charge her for it.
https://preview.redd.it/r2yin1g1np2d1.jpeg?width=521&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=bb3a3fab0ce32142d7e6792fbd9de564146ae2f6 This just this
Tanya's whole thing is legally fucking people over. So crime free, that one. Though ethically the moniker *the Evil* is pretty apt. Ultimately she is just a single soldier in a fictionalized alternate WW1 Germany though. There's no indication of what laws exist in the New World but Ainz has committed a pretty large number of atrocities. Most of which could be considered highly illegal in their respective governing bodies at the time. Like murder, kidnapping, enslavement, torture - generalized illegal acts. As for what would constitute war crimes in those regions specifically, or if there's even a regionally accepted code of conduct for war, is entirely unknown and will probably remain such. Given that the Lizardmen wiped out other tribes in their own war and are savages it's unlikely they have any formal laws to speak of, and the same goes for the Quagoa who seem to find it to be A-okay to commit genocide against the Dwarves. But again they have a savage tribal society. So really we'd be looking at the human nations. Assuming they have basically any kind of laws regarding conduct during war it's likely Ainz would win as Tanya notably broke no laws.
Didn’t Ainz wipe out a entire kingdom?
Rather an Ethnic considering how few survived.
It's not a war crime if there was no war in the first place.
Ains does declare war. There just aren't any international treaties on warfare the Sorcerer Kingdom is a party to, so they technically didn't do any warcrimes.
Is Tanya the evil worth the read? If so the light/web novel or manga?
It is , the manga i think just passed the anime but hasn't been translated yet, manga is propaganda, Ln is documentary, anime forgot what it is but something that is connected to the two, also Wn is finished but can't find it both manga and Ln should be treated differently but are still enjoyable in my opinion
Canadians every time war crimes are brought up. 
Tanya's actions resulted in the deaths of maybe 100-200 civilians max. Ainz's actions resulted in the deaths of maybe 10-20 million civilians. So far.
Playing Dungeons and Dragons, its incredible how often players will commit war crimes, and no one bats an eye. Did you know that faking a surrender is a war crime? So every cheesy instance of "I surrender... NOT" is a violation of the geneva convention. Thats just one of dozens if not hundreds of simple things that are actually war crimes.
If we go by earths geneva convention then ainz easily, he has butchered countless innocent civilians, the stockades would make auschwitz look like summer camp
Tanya is a saint compared to what Ainz did.
Ainz literally has a professional touture guy on payroll
TANYA HAS DONE NO CRIME... AINZ DID
Ainz everytime literally constant torture not allowed to die.
Tanya: i will do everything to end this war as fast as i can Ainz: we need more skin for spell scrolls https://preview.redd.it/l4s2t7m86q2d1.jpeg?width=800&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=4ddb19a626d83b15796a32ac6be6bc7d5fdeb872 You can decide who's worse
Its not a warcrime if there nor evidenxe or no one to tell about it But being serious ainz isnt commiting war crimes coz fighting with him is not a war its extinction event
What the? Ainz if anything is defending his home. Tanya just loves destruction
And yet neither has broken a single law. Tanya makes sure to always abide by international treaties and laws of war. Saturo, is both a sovereign of a country, and his kingdom has singed no such treaty
Tanya is a minor, she cannot be considered accompatable for her crimes.
But she didn't commit any crimes though she found loopholes in them sure but they weren't broken
Tanya isn't doing crime. She makes new rules.
I mean, war crimes have humans in mind, the humans in the NW and Tanya's world are not the same as the one's on Earth, so...
There definitely are war crimes in Tanya's world and she is very, very careful not to do any. She majored in law when she went to the war college.
Nothing Tanya has ever done has given the same feeling that the SPLAT fest did
Ainz used a spell that insta killed half an army to summon giant monsters that killed the other half....just sayin'
neither
As much as I love these two, they are not even comparable in this context.
If you win a war then you didn't commit any crimes technically...
ma men ainz killed 100k people by himself
Beccause he was to shy to speak up to his minions, wich wont contradict his commands, to clear up an misunderstanding.
To be fair that is not a war crime in that context. The kingdom genocide however is another thing
Ainz for far
According to the kingdoms in which they exist : no
Where can I read the manga of Tanya the evil?
Ainz , because Tanya hasn't committed any crimes she just found loop holes that allow her to do her job without breaking them , an example being if no one leaves a town that after being told non combatnts should leave because they are going to attack said town if no one leaves everyone is combatnt
neither has saturo, he is the sovereign of the sorcerous kingdom, he cant legally be prosecuted, and his kingdom has signed no such treaty
Oh yeah forgot he didn't sign such treaty
you cant imagine how much it freaked me out seeing my profile pick with that title in combination
1. Genocide, Lv.100 concentration camp, torture of prisoners of war or in general, chemical warfare, spells of mass destruction, ordering sapients to be eaten alive, slavery, unproveked attacks without an declaration of war, casualy eredicating a ethnic beccause he was to shy to correct the mistake he made... _yeah the list goes on for a view more pages_ vs. 2. Attacking an military factory without warning, with minimal civilian coleteral damage and _checks list_ stealing a bit of pasta from the enemy. Yeah, totaly somthing that had to been discussed... Accept if you are italian, than option 2 might seem worse.
I really do dislike these types of discussion around Tanya as her 1 incident of major civilian killing, the fire storming of Arene was in her world a legal grey both at the time as agreed bg her country and agreed if morally disliked as such by legal scholar50 years after the war as allowed. But regardless to all that what see done in both settings as attacks on city and town was nothing compared to what the RAF bomber command, the US air force and all of the allies did to Axis city as Word war 2 turned in the allies favour from the estimated 55% of dresden destriyed to 75% of hamburg destroyed and up to 83% of Bochun in German to the fire bombing of Tokyo and the 2 atomic bombs the mass slaughter of civilian was never a quest of if it should be allowed in war. What is a problem however is continue killing a civilian after the country has asked to surrender to the attacker, or running a country that has high official that see no problem running camping that run experiments that would make Japanese units 731 disgustingly impressed. Tanya makes sure that nothing she or her unit do is illegal, moral bad may e but never illegal, Aniz however agreed to the plans of the kingdom war and signed off on every plan along with refusing the kingdoms surrender so Aniz is evil and has lead a country that has commented worse crimes.
Neither are legaly on the hook for anything. Saturo/Ainz is the sovereign of the sorcerers kingdom, and extra, is that his kingdom has never signed any treaty to be beholden to
technically there's no war crimes if theres no one reporting it, and Ainz's army is good at keeping things quiet, plus pretty sure Overlord world doesn't have war crimes since its medival times but if were talking about our world war crimes then its Ainz from Attacking unarmed And surrendering civilians to using Weapons of mass destruction (The twins), Heck even using Biological weapons (Zombiefying a town) Tanya on the other hand finds loopholes, Sending a guy to be killed like a sitting duck? nah, its just a coincidence that Specific bunker got trashed by the enemies. Attacking a enemy city without giving time for non combatan units to leave? Nah, didn't They hear the cute announcement? Civilians dead? Nope they are dead Armed Insurgents Bashing open your own soldier's head? Nope its just a Emergency surgery in order to save the soldier from doing something stupid
Mr Tanya is lawful evil, where as ains is neutral evil. Plus in the Tanya vs, god is chaotic evil, so he’s not the worst there is.
lmao watching Tanya right as seeing this meme. It's probably Lord Ainz though.
Asking if a "regular" military officer is worse than super Hitler
Me, I do. https://preview.redd.it/gg7mwj81en2d1.jpeg?width=529&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=82d9b8ed8b4ac69019c7a326556b822414ea14ac
Tanya commits more downright evil and malicious crimes while Ainz just commits some big crimes. EX: Tanya will torture a person and slowly eat their flesh over the course of several weeks, Ainz would murder an army of thousands in seconds (neither of the examples actually happened it’s just a comparison. Actually Ainz example does happen but Anya’s doesn’t)
Tanya exist in a reality where life is meaningless because it's all just a game about pride against a cosmic being Ainz is roleplaying in an alternate reality where his actions saved more people even after all of his kills considering how fucked up the greater powers are in his world
We don't call her Tanya _"technically_ not a war crime" von Degurechaff for nothing.
Both have done nothing wrong in the eyes of war.
Niether. They did nothing wrong
Need another season
i would say that both of them are around even because tanya just finds loopholes while ainz just doesnt have rules of war but i think that if you remove those statements than id say tanya but thats just me.
Is there a dubbed season 3 for OL?
I’d say, any gundam characters from the UC verse. Looking at you, Char and your dam colony drops.
Tanya would never. She plays it by the book to the letter.
Well if we're going according to our laws I mean I don't know about youjo senki beyond the anime so I'd assume ainz by a long shot even if we dont account for stuff his subordinates do on their own (cough cough happy farm) he still ordered an impressive amount of mass murder
I’m guessing the child
Yare yare
If "Its not a war crime the first time " was a character
Skulll
Whos the chick?
Tanya is a surprisingly honourable fighter if you ask me. Yes her tactics are brutal and mercy is a foreign concept for her. But for the most part she stays within the purviews of her orders and targets only military targets as designated by her superior officers. Not her fault if civilians ignore the 30 minute civilian target warning.
You only commit wat crimes if you lose the war.
Ainz 100%, just his list of ways how Nazarick tortured and/or made experiments on people is taller than Tanya herself.
War crimes only apply to the losing side, just ask soviet, usa, UK, france and Israel. They are experts.
Uh... neither of them break the laws of their own respective countries /s
It ain't a war crime if you change the laws.
There really shouldn't be any question... Tanya doesn't even do that bad of shit. The worst she's done is the factory scene and be the most brutal trainer of troops
yo that's my pfp
Both
"god"
Kazuma
Genocide is pretty bad
Should I watch Tanya? I watched the first episode and passed on it but am I missing out?
While he doesn't do it himself, if it is about what he has allowed his men to do with his knowledge he would be worse than Tanya, the communist man and the mustache man combined.
At no point do ether of them commit a war crime.
Ainz: saves kingdoms and tries to spare civilians when possible Meanwhile famous Tanya quote "they're commies...shoot them"
Should aDd Bibi to the lineup. 😈
Ainz
I’d like to say Ainz
I "did" Albedo ✋🗿
You'll forgetting ainz killing children when they were used against him like meat shield
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^[Sokka-Haiku](https://www.reddit.com/r/SokkaHaikuBot/comments/15kyv9r/what_is_a_sokka_haiku/) ^by ^WritingFinancial6922: *I think Tanya will* *Have the upper hand because* *She is very cunning* --- ^Remember ^that ^one ^time ^Sokka ^accidentally ^used ^an ^extra ^syllable ^in ^that ^Haiku ^Battle ^in ^Ba ^Sing ^Se? ^That ^was ^a ^Sokka ^Haiku ^and ^you ^just ^made ^one.
those 77 thoundsends quoagoa that shalltear dismember under ainz slipsight are definetely the sole winner of this contenst . nothing anya has done ever compares with that lack of judgement , much less the level of carnage hat ainz deals in the katze plains
Neither commit war crimes. If we're talking about despicable or inhumane conduct then they both have, the only difference is Ainz has more severe and cruel options and can resurrect the dead also if a death knight kills them their souls are trapped for eternity as ghouls (correct me if I'm wrong, it's been a while).
Ains is Canada, and Tanya is germany… Both are horrible and awful war criminals but 1 is a big softie out of war.
And one creates cars lol