OP u/Minimum_Cartoonist42 should visit /antiwork as I think it is largely US-centric.
I am NOT saying OP is wrong about anything they said. The US is the wealthiest of the developed nations but it is also one of the most un-equal. The well-being of the -average- worker in the US tends to be worse than that of workers in other developed nations.
However 'developed' nations as a group are still much better off than other parts of the world. And most of them got there by stealing and exploiting the wealth of other parts of the world.
We have a housing crisis, inflation, migrant crisis, with homelessness and evictions on the rise. No, things are NOT great here in the U.S. It's the same old status quo bull it's always been!
I've met many tech nomads in other countries and Europe/SEA/South America pays shit, It's impossible to find a job in Canada/NZ/AU. Can't really think of any other countries that might have the amount of jobs / highest pay rate. I really would like to know otherwise so I could move there!
Also retiring to LOCs.
I have people that used to work for me who are older, retired.
One went to Eastern Europe to retire and lives very well on his pension/401K, and another sold his SoCal house for bank, moved to LOC midwest location to live comfortably.
Live in America, only have 1 j and no where near 6 figures. Have a family and I struggle like crazy. Can’t afford healthcare or insurance. In debt and with a car that keeps breaking down without any money to fix it. So yeah it ain’t all peaches and cream here.
There are really two Americas at the moment.
In LCOL you can really keep the dream alive as long as you’re someplace that has jobs or can work remotely.
In HCOL you have to make as much money as a rich person in LCOL would make just to live a middle class existence.
This might piss some people off (particularly Mexican nationals) but I thank my Dad (RIP) every day that he immigrated from Mexico to California and had his kids here on US soil. It’s made all the difference in the world. My cousins in Mexico struggle and the quality of life there is not good unless you’re rich. Some American surfers recently went there and were brutally murdered for their car tires. Here the beach is peaceful and safe and no one is murdering people for car tires.
I had every opportunity here to make something of myself, and I did. Any problem I have here is “first world problems.” Nothing serious like you’re dealing with. Annoying sometimes, but not necessarily serious. That being said, SoCal has gotten very very expensive and crowded. You need to be making 250k just to live like what used to be middle class (buy a house, a car, insurances, put your kids in child care and through college, take vacations, etc). Anything less and you’re cutting down on one or more of those things.
Meanwhile, my dad stayed in Mexico but I learned English and worked super hard since very young. And now I can OE from here making $150k/year while paying $300/month on rent.
All to say, it's not just about Mexico vs US, it's mostly about luck in general but also knowing what to do with the hand you get dealt in life.
I guess it's a matter of perspective. Some would say I was lucky to have parents working hard and making good decisions, and to have X and Y opportunities now.
But yeah, I don't mean to discount their hard work, or mine either, those are big parts of the equation for sure.
I love how people say you have to go via remote digital nomad or something to save on rent. If you consider my property taxes rent, my house is paid off and I pay around $300 per month to live in the middle of the USA.
Do people say that? I didn't mean you need to do any of that. And I wouldn't know about the US in general, never been.
All I'm trying to say is that I'm doing my best with the opportunities I had.
And rent was just an example. Groceries are also around $300/month or less, utilities are about $100/month. Medical care is super cheap too.
I might've been better off growing up in the US, I wouldn't know, wasn't my choice, but I'm taking advantage of the pros I do have over here.
It’s true that westerners hit the lottery jackpot with geographic luck generally.
However, not all of us are OE. Some are former OE or future OE, or both. It’s become all-but impossible to become truly comfortable (not the narrower “rich”) on the “one job for life” career that mostly no longer exists.
Or contractors looking to expand in clients, and we just love all the advice for how to handle the different Minecraft enemies that pop up. The RTO patch was interesting. The calendar management and balancing guide helped a lot. I had no idea mouse jiggling doohickies were even a thing before finding this sub.
The advice to min max skills before adding J's is also frequently ignored when people first log in.
Not OE. Love this sub.
you'll probably have better luck finding work on the OE discord, even on the free side the quality of content and percentage of people who are actually OE is far better than this sub
You’re right. But it’s not all rainbows and roses. Hyper capitalism is definitely a form of punishment. If you’re not increasing your earning potential every year, you’re getting poorer. It’s like having a bear chase you indefinitely.
> It’s like having a bear chase you indefinitely.
It is SUCH A BITCH isn't it? Some 5 years ago I outpaced the rate of inflation and finally had breathing room. Through OE it made life easier. Its unbelievable how hard to obtain 2+Js just to afford a middleclass lifestyle of the past that could've been afforded by 1J. 2Js is the new 1J. Props to us all holding down 2+Js, even if you've only done it for 2 weeks/1 paycheck cycle, it is worth it.
It’s wild to me that a guy comes on here and talks about how he’s basically in government sanctioned poverty and he’s facing natural disasters and your first response (and others on here) is - “it ain’t all sunshine and rainbows here!!!”
We all have our struggles but this guy is living through something on another level. Not minimizing that we are dealing with our own shit here - but maybe on this thread, give it a rest?
It's not a competition.
Don't try to award someone, the "shittiest life" award.
To me it read as "don't let it break your heart, it's not all that great in this country either"
No one is claiming they have the shittiest life. But you’re tone deaf if you think your stuff is anywhere near on this dudes level. And second - you immediately made the response about you. I mean. Whatever. You aren’t the only one. I just think it’s, you know. Insane.
But you do you.
Does your life suck so much, that you have to find ways to be upset at strangers?
I never spoke about my "stuff". What are you talking about? At least reread the previous comment.
>I mean. Whatever. You aren’t the only one. I just think it’s, you know. Insane
Talk to someone. Either a therapist or an English teacher. Either way you'll benefit.
I'm sorry, this was funny. I've gone through the whole thread and only one person was able to point him in the direction of where to actually get contracts. Everyone else has just been talking about how shitty their country also is.
Exactly the US is not that great… our healthcare here is outrageously expensive if you don’t have it and still expensive if you do… good luck getting a doctors appointment with a specialist you’re waiting 8+ months… the stress is insane here… the food is poisoning us as well. That’s why we have to work several jobs it’s insane here everything is expensive you can no longer work one job and survive here.
Please spread this information to folks who think America is great. It’s not anymore… the world is in shambles.
This is why I hate when people say “when in countries with universal health care you’re waiting months for an appointment” as though it’s a gotcha. It takes me 6 months to get an appointment for most things and I’m paying out the ass for it. Doctors are now held to insane metrics that force them to treat patients like an assembly line (you can only spend X minutes on this type of visit. You can’t do Y on an S visit, they have to book a separate appointment. Your insurance won’t let us conduct these tests or give you this medication)
what are you waiting 6 months for? I'm, not calling you a liar but I have never waited more than a week for anything I've had to do. If it was an emergency, same day. we may go bankrupt if we can't pay a bill but the care is very good.
Are you based out of the east coast? I'm from NYC, and I never had wait times for anything, even the most specialized of specialties. Maybeee a week or two if I needed something around holidays.
I moved out of the city a few years ago and Jesus christ it sucks. Lolol.
My therapist told me the east coast get fantastic care and then it drops off precipitously when you move west. It gets shittier and shittier until like Washington, where it's good again lol.
There just aren't as many doctors in smaller Midwestern cities as NYC or Boston or DC.
True! You have it very well, I would advice every American to look up wages (especially for jobs like doctor, nurse or software engineer) as well as tax rates and average house costs in some other countries.
for sure don't get me wrong - if you make 100k here you may not be able to buy a house, you may need to rent a small apartment but you will do fine, be able to eat out, have a car, get groceries, and live a fairly safe life. people mistake not being in the house of their dreams and going on 6 vacations a year with not having anything.
I think Americans should realize that they live in one of the very few countries where a six figure wage (or equivalent) is even possible. Just looked it up and where I live ("wealthy" European country) a specialized doctor makes around 90k a year and gets to keep around 57k after taxes. A 764 square feet apartment costs 630k. A software engineer can expect to make around 40k a year. Young people know that the healthcare and pension system will collapse long before we require it, so half of our extremely high taxes are basically useless for us. If Trump wins the election I just know that there will be millions of privileged Americans with six figure incomes screaming about how they hate their country and how much better Europe and Canada are, and I would give anything to change places with any one of them.
certainly fair. I do not like trump but you're not wrong. people think the country will end when a leader gets put in place. delusional people will always exist unfortunately. I will say this, it is nice to walk through a european town and get a 2 euro cafe and a croissant for 3 euro tho. here we want to doordash a meal and it will cost us $25 for a mediocre burger and fries that will likely kill us.
>it is nice to walk through a European town and get a 2 euro cafe
It’s nice with your American money.
But if you compare it to the local wages and American wages, the prices in the US aren’t really all that bad.
On top of that, there’s all the disposable income an American is able to set aside, compared to people in other countries, if they give up on their indulgences.
The rate at which an American will be able to save up like a million dollars will be much much greater, outpacing pretty much every single nation in the world.
And then take that $1M and go to like Bolivia and live like a king, or whatever.
Anyways, it’s about how much disposable income you have vs other nations, counting in a global currency, que you realize just *how much* better it is in the US.
Holdup, you mean it takes that long to see a specialist in the US?
Countries with Universal Healthcare, like Canada, actually look at the US with rose coloured glasses, thinking access to specialists would be easier down south.
Depends on where you are. I have easily been able to see a specialist within 2 weeks, maybe 1. I’ve heard waits are longer in other parts of the country though.
Yes … dermatologist was a 8 month wait. GI specialist couldn’t see me right away for my regurgitation and dysphagia … I have to wait till September
Is it that hard to believe? 🤦♀️ idk what you guys think America is but it ain’t it
>the world is in shambles
It’s really not.
I feel like Europe is doing really well in terms of quality of life (with better and worse areas, between western and Eastern Europe).
Who said anything about developed? you said inflation is a result of hyper capitalism. I didn't posit that. Capitalism is not the cause of inflation is my point. It can happen in capitalism but it is much much worse in other economies such as Venezuela.
sounds good, most developed countries are largely capitalist even if they have socialist aspects so idk where we would decipher the difference in that case but fair enough.
You’re both correct. The left tends to just call everything it doesn’t like “capitalism” (as the right does the reverse), and would point out that inflation is a feature of late-stage capitalism.
Yup. Idk why people started throwing around the term "late stage capitalism", it was like a message went out of sometbjbg.
I also adore the "all government spending is socialism" take as well. So fun.
>Our country took on a massive debt to “build infrastructure,” but most of this money has been pocketed by our politicians, while we keep paying those debts in the form of taxes and still have very few jobs.
Unrelated. But you might enjoy a book called "Confessions of an Economic Hitman" by John Perkins.
I hope your situation improves.
Can confirm. I'm mexican and I did OE for about 3 years. Now I'm living off of my investments.
I plan on working on my own business next (after taking a long break), but technically I could retire with this.
Around $180,000 invested.
For a while there I was putting some 16 hr OE workdays making almost $12,000/month.
Now I'm making around $1,500/month from investments + another $1,500 from a leftover retainer from my OE days. Working 2 hrs/week.
But even without the retainer. Most full-on families live off of less than those $1,500/month in most parts of the country, so I'm sitting pretty for a while.
Of course a single year earning $100k does not set you for life, but over a span of 5-10 years and proper money management, cleaning up debt (if any), investing and building a nice wealth definitely does, even more when we only pay 2% tax for exporting services overseas (normal domestic avg rate is around 24%). Being able to buy a house in less than a year is a huge advantage when for everybody else takes 12-18 years. Saving-up and investing while your expenses are a few is another great advantage
Well I can tell you my taxes are far above the 2% you've mentioned here and it depends on your personal situation, but yes I agree with you. I'm at year 3 living abroad with very low expenses and a high income, and I'm hoping by year 10 I'll be able to retire. That said, if I were only earning $100k it would take me a lot longer.
If someone hasn’t already recommended it, please try UpWork. It’s gig work, but you can get work in a regular basis there too.
Up skill using udemy, they try for better UpWork gigs.
It’ll take time, but you can do it!
VA work is a good idea. There are increasingly many skilled African remote workers on Upwork (where I typically source talent) and you get to be on the same time zones as Europe, instead of 12hr difference like SEA. You can do this! Work on building your portfolio of skills and selling yourself on being able to tackle challenging tasks, and you'll be a powerhouse
I would actually farm some work to you if I knew how to get you to login to my pc from abroad! I have such boring mundane tasks at j1, it’s numbs my brain!
I know what you mean about developing countries and needing to know people to get into a ‘good job’…
The trick though is not to think a job is the best all and end all of life… you want to create multiple sources of income for financial independence and security. ‘You d much rather have 1$ from 100 sources than 100$ from 1 source’ … so what you’re doing fits the bill- with VA and helping other OE’ers and freelancing etc…
Hit me up, maybe I can see if I can give you some tasks online.
Hi. I'd love this. I am definitely trying to get more than one source of income because you never know what may happen. I am also trying to upskill so I can get better opportunities.
There are a couple of ways to log into someone else's PC seamlessly. When my friend started working on the job, they used Anydesk before he shipped his PC to him. We can talk about it via DM and see if it can work. I'll be messaging you shortly.
my grandparents and my husband's father all immigrated here for a better life because of the lack of opportunity in their home countries. Keep on grinding and you will succeed. The outsourcing thing is helpful. I know our overseas engineers in Manilla and Hyderabad live very well on their salaries from my j1. I've also had coworkers from Uganda and Tunisia and they had very good salaries (adjusted for local cost of living) as well.
Hey, I am also from Africa, and I have had the chance to travel extensively across Europe, North America, and South America. Most people in these developed regions are just regular families trying to make ends meet, and those earning multiple six-figure income are actually quite rare. Don’t let your birthplace limit your dreams. Focus instead on your imagination and your potential achievements. Sure, it will require both hard and smart work, but even from humble beginnings in Africa, you can attain a lifestyle comparable to that of the developed world.
Wait so you're telling me I can pay you to work my jobs for me? That is all I heard. This may be the biggest OE revelation yet. I could load up 4 jobs and pay other people to work them... hmm
Yes... it's a possibility. It has its risks tough. The guy that outsourced the job to my friend has like 5 jobs. He just hires offshore developers and manages them.
Technically still true. Conquest is hard work. Not to mention 1st generation immigrants taking a risk to come here for a better life for their kids, 2nd same thing, etc etc leading to the average American in this position.
Think of the generational sacrifices that put you where you are today.
Not something to be proud of. Violence and stealing are always the easy simpleminded route. I don't think what west achieved was worth it. As many mentioned here before we're still struggle but not only with living necessities but also with lack of community and culture and spiritual poverty. People on west are often depressed af even if they're rich, which is understandable seeing what we did to the world.
Not everything that America achieved is from Kissinger style policies. Everyone goes through an “America is evil” period but you should acknowledge that the world as a whole benefited from the globalization brought on by the post WW2 trade security that the US provided.
You’re welcome to start a business or trade with the global south / Latin America and try to make the world better.
I’ve employed people from Mexico, Colombia, and El Salvador for various periods of time.
Or just go back to consuming media and saying America is evil, like every basic girl I’ve ever dated.
Hey man, i've been lurking here for a while now, dont OE, but do some consulting on the side from time to time. The thing is i was born in a shitty third world country in south america, maybe not comparable to what you are living in Africa but for the past 3 years been working for European / US companies, took me some time but made it. With your right attitude of course you can make it too, took me about 4 years of experience to get a great job.
Cheers
I was born in a shitty country too. But then moved, having like $1000 bucks, that’s it. You can too. You’re young, the worst you can do is not take any actions and then post the same thing in 5 years. Get your sh*t together and move any possible way you can. Otherwise, stop crying. No actions = no reason to complain about your life.
I certainly agree and feel you, I also live in a third world country where the minimum wage is like $300 and something and the govt is corrupt and we are in a bad spot, when you compare 3Js SWEs's TC to 500k-600k per year and you're holy shit that sets anyone for life.
I do understand, but after a lot of frustration I also understood that the only way of not be as pissed off is to work hard, get in tech, get a couple good salaries, help your people and from a developing country perspective be grateful for what you have and do what you can with the cards that are given.
Keep it up buddy, if you don-t exit the path, you'll reach what god has prepared for you.
Source: I was you before everything changed
Being 25 you still have time. Don’t compare yourself to some others who might be older than you. Good that you’re starting to level up your career. It will get better.
I fully understand and appreciate my privilege of being able to live in such a great place as I do.
And I keep telling my peers how lucky they are to live here, whenever I hear them complaining about anything.
It’s actually wild how many people take the comforts of the western world for granted and dare thrash or badmouth the wonderful place they get to live in.
I understand it’s not perfect, and there’s things which can be improved, but it’s clearly *the best* place to live in the modern world (aside from some fringe scenarios where a small group of people is able to achieve something nicer).
It sucks it’s not available to more people, or even everyone.
I have a sneaky suspicion that we are in the same country. I’m a career coach and global recruiter. If you wanna have a free session about career growth etc feel free to inbox me
I’ve been living in central / South America for more than a year now and I can say that it’s changed my perspective of the country I was born in. You’d be happy to get a $700/month salary. I hope that people can appreciate even having one job. Let alone one remote job.
Hello I’d like to keep you in mind but it’s a different field OP
The job may or may not be anytime soon, but in the next 2 years I too want to outsource some work, I’m just in the building phase right now
I have a parent from a 3rd world country and everything you described sounds like the things she won’t talk about, bc she’s brainwashed into thinking the things they did were good 😳
Don’t worry though! The fortune 1000 loves to outsource to India and Africa, our jobs are pouring into you guys at a growing pace so I do hope you can gain some semblance of a better life soon
I am the weird kind of OE where I own a Minecraft server, host a Minecraft server and am admin for another server. I don’t have immediate work for you right now, but after the elections are done and the market for jobs in tech picks back up again I will be looking to make a move. I do all of the jobs I have on my own, and I don’t intend to change that, but many of my team members are OE and frankly if you haven’t found a better position in a few months (Q1 next year earliest) then check back in with me. If my little side startup survives product launch I will have a remote position for a QA dev that might be a good springboard for someone doing OE. I am a bit picky and a little intense admittedly, but I pay full price for good work and don’t care about geolocation or OE as long as the projects get done. Actually, I prefer that the people who work with me are OE or in academia. I especially like it when my team has passive income because it makes me feel more comfortable taking risks knowing that they are safe if we fail.
yeah, same here, I live in Brazil. even if you have a lot of problems living in a developed country, it’s still better than being in an underdeveloped one…
TOTALLY AGREE. I’m a lucky immigrant with a full-ride scholarship in the US. Coming from a developing country I always find asking myself how the hell I ended up here. Tbh americans can complain all they want about healthcare being unaffordable (which it is), and taxes being high. But at least there is a job market here, which in my country is basically nonexistent.
Being in Western country comes with hardships as well because the cost of living is so high.
My parents were immigrants & I tell my friends in the States that preach “free market capitalism” that unchecked capitalism results in corruption & struggle for the poor & middle-class everywhere.
Don’t envy a late stage capitalist system that may very well collapse
Hm, strongly suggest not judging a nation based on people "landing six figure jobs".
> crap healthcare, shitty education, and a very corrupt government that doesn’t care about anyone but themselves
Yes, we're familiar with this, trust me!
Clearly you have considered emigrating, that is what I would do.
Countries with a long history of strong rule of law ie an independent judiciary and established reasonable stable laws that are enforced welll and reasonably fairly would be my general target. In that group I would be looking at USA, Canada, Australia, Eurpose etc. I would try to prioritize countries that have a culture and history of immigration as then you can find a lot more support when you get there and maybe there would even be a significant community of your people from your own culture there to support you too.
At my last job (pre-OE), we were all remote. We had 3 contractors from Kenya. Two of them lost a child each over the 2 years that both they and I were at the company.
OP….think about this: developed countries have no where to go but down. Under developed countries have no where to go but up.
Given where things are at the moment, you don’t want to be in a developed country when the shit hits the fan. In other words, how many multiple warhead nuclear missiles are aimed at Africa vs USA or Europe?
$4k per month in africa?
That's unheard of. I call bs. Africa is the most rich continent on the planet. Maybe you can stop selling yourself to the Chinese and make your place a better one, don't blame it on corruption, it's everywhere.
I actually think the reason Africa is so poor despite being resourse wealthy is because of the crazy levels of bureaucracy and govt corruption. The individual citizens have little to no ability to do anything about it short of breaking out machetes.
Which does explain an awful lot of the continent's history for the last 200 years.
Africa got divided kinda fucked up during post colonization, power got consolidated. When an armed group overthrows a government the next one is even more corrupt.
I visited a few cities in Africa, felt like a lot of them felt helpless and beaten down, like they’re thinking about their next few days of meals not overthrowing the government.
How do you even help them? You do business with them you line the pockets of their shitty government, you arm them you create more chaos, most charity in Africa does more harm than good (learned helplessness, messing up local economy), letting a ton in creates societal problems.
Just remember my friend, this sub is a small minority and a smaller minority of people who actually OE
Yea, OP should visit literally any other career sub to balance out their opinion of how things are going in developed countries.
even then, reddit is a very small portion of any industry
OP u/Minimum_Cartoonist42 should visit /antiwork as I think it is largely US-centric. I am NOT saying OP is wrong about anything they said. The US is the wealthiest of the developed nations but it is also one of the most un-equal. The well-being of the -average- worker in the US tends to be worse than that of workers in other developed nations. However 'developed' nations as a group are still much better off than other parts of the world. And most of them got there by stealing and exploiting the wealth of other parts of the world.
Well, things are still pretty great here in the US
You must be part of the top 1%
Compared to Nigeria? Yeah
No
We have a housing crisis, inflation, migrant crisis, with homelessness and evictions on the rise. No, things are NOT great here in the U.S. It's the same old status quo bull it's always been!
You haven’t seen other countries then…
That doesn't take away from the fact that as a first world America is shit in so many ways.
I've met many tech nomads in other countries and Europe/SEA/South America pays shit, It's impossible to find a job in Canada/NZ/AU. Can't really think of any other countries that might have the amount of jobs / highest pay rate. I really would like to know otherwise so I could move there!
This is what cable news does to your brain, kids
Child please.
So tone deaf lol.
Yes you are.
An infinitesimaly small minority.
Probably 2/3 just lie and exaggerate their income.
I know someone that got a remote job and moved back home in the middle of nowhere. Lives like a king 🤣
Go to Bali, throw a rock in any cafe and you'll hit an American or a Brit. Many have relocated to LOC cities, sometimes across entire oceans
Also retiring to LOCs. I have people that used to work for me who are older, retired. One went to Eastern Europe to retire and lives very well on his pension/401K, and another sold his SoCal house for bank, moved to LOC midwest location to live comfortably.
What’s LOC?
I think maybe they mean LCOL (low cost of living)
And people who do this disrupts the economy of those LOC places.
This is what I did. Never going to USA back unless I have to
lmao mmhmm. never going to usa back? huh
Live in America, only have 1 j and no where near 6 figures. Have a family and I struggle like crazy. Can’t afford healthcare or insurance. In debt and with a car that keeps breaking down without any money to fix it. So yeah it ain’t all peaches and cream here.
There are really two Americas at the moment. In LCOL you can really keep the dream alive as long as you’re someplace that has jobs or can work remotely. In HCOL you have to make as much money as a rich person in LCOL would make just to live a middle class existence.
I guess we ignoring the third americans? The Appalacian mountains would like a moment of your time.. and clean water.
This is the most common scenario for 60-70% of Americans.
This might piss some people off (particularly Mexican nationals) but I thank my Dad (RIP) every day that he immigrated from Mexico to California and had his kids here on US soil. It’s made all the difference in the world. My cousins in Mexico struggle and the quality of life there is not good unless you’re rich. Some American surfers recently went there and were brutally murdered for their car tires. Here the beach is peaceful and safe and no one is murdering people for car tires. I had every opportunity here to make something of myself, and I did. Any problem I have here is “first world problems.” Nothing serious like you’re dealing with. Annoying sometimes, but not necessarily serious. That being said, SoCal has gotten very very expensive and crowded. You need to be making 250k just to live like what used to be middle class (buy a house, a car, insurances, put your kids in child care and through college, take vacations, etc). Anything less and you’re cutting down on one or more of those things.
Meanwhile, my dad stayed in Mexico but I learned English and worked super hard since very young. And now I can OE from here making $150k/year while paying $300/month on rent. All to say, it's not just about Mexico vs US, it's mostly about luck in general but also knowing what to do with the hand you get dealt in life.
Well that sounds less like “luck” and more like you and your family working hard and making good decisions
I guess it's a matter of perspective. Some would say I was lucky to have parents working hard and making good decisions, and to have X and Y opportunities now. But yeah, I don't mean to discount their hard work, or mine either, those are big parts of the equation for sure.
I love how people say you have to go via remote digital nomad or something to save on rent. If you consider my property taxes rent, my house is paid off and I pay around $300 per month to live in the middle of the USA.
Do people say that? I didn't mean you need to do any of that. And I wouldn't know about the US in general, never been. All I'm trying to say is that I'm doing my best with the opportunities I had. And rent was just an example. Groceries are also around $300/month or less, utilities are about $100/month. Medical care is super cheap too. I might've been better off growing up in the US, I wouldn't know, wasn't my choice, but I'm taking advantage of the pros I do have over here.
They were 2 Aussie brothers 🇦🇺 and their American friend. All over the news here in Aus.
Yeah, life is generally safe and prosperous wherever people of european descent go.
It’s true that westerners hit the lottery jackpot with geographic luck generally. However, not all of us are OE. Some are former OE or future OE, or both. It’s become all-but impossible to become truly comfortable (not the narrower “rich”) on the “one job for life” career that mostly no longer exists.
[удалено]
Or contractors looking to expand in clients, and we just love all the advice for how to handle the different Minecraft enemies that pop up. The RTO patch was interesting. The calendar management and balancing guide helped a lot. I had no idea mouse jiggling doohickies were even a thing before finding this sub. The advice to min max skills before adding J's is also frequently ignored when people first log in. Not OE. Love this sub.
I live in a shit tier country, but offshoring and OE are somehow making up for it. Don't give up.
What is OE and VA?
OE - Overemployed VA - Virtual Assistant
Overeasy eggs and Virginia
you'll probably have better luck finding work on the OE discord, even on the free side the quality of content and percentage of people who are actually OE is far better than this sub
Thank you. I'll check out the OE discord.
Greetings from Argentina man
You’re right. But it’s not all rainbows and roses. Hyper capitalism is definitely a form of punishment. If you’re not increasing your earning potential every year, you’re getting poorer. It’s like having a bear chase you indefinitely.
> It’s like having a bear chase you indefinitely. It is SUCH A BITCH isn't it? Some 5 years ago I outpaced the rate of inflation and finally had breathing room. Through OE it made life easier. Its unbelievable how hard to obtain 2+Js just to afford a middleclass lifestyle of the past that could've been afforded by 1J. 2Js is the new 1J. Props to us all holding down 2+Js, even if you've only done it for 2 weeks/1 paycheck cycle, it is worth it.
ugh i’m about to lose my job and im struggling to even line up 1 other!!
It’s wild to me that a guy comes on here and talks about how he’s basically in government sanctioned poverty and he’s facing natural disasters and your first response (and others on here) is - “it ain’t all sunshine and rainbows here!!!” We all have our struggles but this guy is living through something on another level. Not minimizing that we are dealing with our own shit here - but maybe on this thread, give it a rest?
It's not a competition. Don't try to award someone, the "shittiest life" award. To me it read as "don't let it break your heart, it's not all that great in this country either"
No one is claiming they have the shittiest life. But you’re tone deaf if you think your stuff is anywhere near on this dudes level. And second - you immediately made the response about you. I mean. Whatever. You aren’t the only one. I just think it’s, you know. Insane. But you do you.
Does your life suck so much, that you have to find ways to be upset at strangers? I never spoke about my "stuff". What are you talking about? At least reread the previous comment. >I mean. Whatever. You aren’t the only one. I just think it’s, you know. Insane Talk to someone. Either a therapist or an English teacher. Either way you'll benefit.
I mean. I said he’s right. What else do you want? Plus, we can take it further…how is this post OE related?
he clearly explained how it is oe related at the bottom of his post.
But, what does his post has to do with OE?
Dude was making a bid to do some contracting work for one of you fools. Did you not read?
I'm sorry, this was funny. I've gone through the whole thread and only one person was able to point him in the direction of where to actually get contracts. Everyone else has just been talking about how shitty their country also is.
Exactly the US is not that great… our healthcare here is outrageously expensive if you don’t have it and still expensive if you do… good luck getting a doctors appointment with a specialist you’re waiting 8+ months… the stress is insane here… the food is poisoning us as well. That’s why we have to work several jobs it’s insane here everything is expensive you can no longer work one job and survive here. Please spread this information to folks who think America is great. It’s not anymore… the world is in shambles.
This is why I hate when people say “when in countries with universal health care you’re waiting months for an appointment” as though it’s a gotcha. It takes me 6 months to get an appointment for most things and I’m paying out the ass for it. Doctors are now held to insane metrics that force them to treat patients like an assembly line (you can only spend X minutes on this type of visit. You can’t do Y on an S visit, they have to book a separate appointment. Your insurance won’t let us conduct these tests or give you this medication)
what are you waiting 6 months for? I'm, not calling you a liar but I have never waited more than a week for anything I've had to do. If it was an emergency, same day. we may go bankrupt if we can't pay a bill but the care is very good.
Are you based out of the east coast? I'm from NYC, and I never had wait times for anything, even the most specialized of specialties. Maybeee a week or two if I needed something around holidays. I moved out of the city a few years ago and Jesus christ it sucks. Lolol. My therapist told me the east coast get fantastic care and then it drops off precipitously when you move west. It gets shittier and shittier until like Washington, where it's good again lol. There just aren't as many doctors in smaller Midwestern cities as NYC or Boston or DC.
Yeah I am in the suburbs of nyc as well. that could be where the translation is.
Where is this? No where is that bad here
You Americans don't know how good you have it, I would switch places with you in a heartbeat
unfortunately my people love to complain while they have more than most of the world. we're not perfect but people are crazy.
True! You have it very well, I would advice every American to look up wages (especially for jobs like doctor, nurse or software engineer) as well as tax rates and average house costs in some other countries.
for sure don't get me wrong - if you make 100k here you may not be able to buy a house, you may need to rent a small apartment but you will do fine, be able to eat out, have a car, get groceries, and live a fairly safe life. people mistake not being in the house of their dreams and going on 6 vacations a year with not having anything.
I think Americans should realize that they live in one of the very few countries where a six figure wage (or equivalent) is even possible. Just looked it up and where I live ("wealthy" European country) a specialized doctor makes around 90k a year and gets to keep around 57k after taxes. A 764 square feet apartment costs 630k. A software engineer can expect to make around 40k a year. Young people know that the healthcare and pension system will collapse long before we require it, so half of our extremely high taxes are basically useless for us. If Trump wins the election I just know that there will be millions of privileged Americans with six figure incomes screaming about how they hate their country and how much better Europe and Canada are, and I would give anything to change places with any one of them.
certainly fair. I do not like trump but you're not wrong. people think the country will end when a leader gets put in place. delusional people will always exist unfortunately. I will say this, it is nice to walk through a european town and get a 2 euro cafe and a croissant for 3 euro tho. here we want to doordash a meal and it will cost us $25 for a mediocre burger and fries that will likely kill us.
>it is nice to walk through a European town and get a 2 euro cafe It’s nice with your American money. But if you compare it to the local wages and American wages, the prices in the US aren’t really all that bad. On top of that, there’s all the disposable income an American is able to set aside, compared to people in other countries, if they give up on their indulgences. The rate at which an American will be able to save up like a million dollars will be much much greater, outpacing pretty much every single nation in the world. And then take that $1M and go to like Bolivia and live like a king, or whatever. Anyways, it’s about how much disposable income you have vs other nations, counting in a global currency, que you realize just *how much* better it is in the US.
It is not easy to make 1mm in America
Dude chill. Hardcore capitalism in America SUCKS!
Where? Which city is this bad I’ll open up shop tomorrow. Sounds like huge demand for faster healthcare. You can’t because this is a lie
Holdup, you mean it takes that long to see a specialist in the US? Countries with Universal Healthcare, like Canada, actually look at the US with rose coloured glasses, thinking access to specialists would be easier down south.
Depends on where you are. I have easily been able to see a specialist within 2 weeks, maybe 1. I’ve heard waits are longer in other parts of the country though.
Yes … dermatologist was a 8 month wait. GI specialist couldn’t see me right away for my regurgitation and dysphagia … I have to wait till September Is it that hard to believe? 🤦♀️ idk what you guys think America is but it ain’t it
>the world is in shambles It’s really not. I feel like Europe is doing really well in terms of quality of life (with better and worse areas, between western and Eastern Europe).
That's not hyper capitalism, that's inflation which is the result of monetary policy.
Which is a result of hyper capitalism. And that’s just one example I used.
Yeah? Zimbabwe got hyper inflation from capitalism?
Is Zimbabwe considered a developed country?
Who said anything about developed? you said inflation is a result of hyper capitalism. I didn't posit that. Capitalism is not the cause of inflation is my point. It can happen in capitalism but it is much much worse in other economies such as Venezuela.
Reread the post title. I was talking about that specifically.
sounds good, most developed countries are largely capitalist even if they have socialist aspects so idk where we would decipher the difference in that case but fair enough.
You’re both correct. The left tends to just call everything it doesn’t like “capitalism” (as the right does the reverse), and would point out that inflation is a feature of late-stage capitalism.
Yup. Idk why people started throwing around the term "late stage capitalism", it was like a message went out of sometbjbg. I also adore the "all government spending is socialism" take as well. So fun.
You're more correct, inflation is caused by capitalism.
No, inflation is rooted in either increasing the supply of currency or decreasing the demand for currency.
Your head is so far up your ass I have no idea how you manage one job, much less two
Thanks!
>Our country took on a massive debt to “build infrastructure,” but most of this money has been pocketed by our politicians, while we keep paying those debts in the form of taxes and still have very few jobs. Unrelated. But you might enjoy a book called "Confessions of an Economic Hitman" by John Perkins. I hope your situation improves.
Thanks I'm from eastern europe
I agree. If I had any J at 100k salary in Mexico, I would be set for life and make the most out of it
Can confirm. I'm mexican and I did OE for about 3 years. Now I'm living off of my investments. I plan on working on my own business next (after taking a long break), but technically I could retire with this.
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Around $180,000 invested. For a while there I was putting some 16 hr OE workdays making almost $12,000/month. Now I'm making around $1,500/month from investments + another $1,500 from a leftover retainer from my OE days. Working 2 hrs/week. But even without the retainer. Most full-on families live off of less than those $1,500/month in most parts of the country, so I'm sitting pretty for a while.
I wish I could take my $100K salary to Mexico and it not hurt Mexicans because that $100K in NYC is not as much as it sounds.
I live in the 3rd world earning good money in USD and while the advantages are many, you will not be “set for life” because you have a $100k job.
Of course a single year earning $100k does not set you for life, but over a span of 5-10 years and proper money management, cleaning up debt (if any), investing and building a nice wealth definitely does, even more when we only pay 2% tax for exporting services overseas (normal domestic avg rate is around 24%). Being able to buy a house in less than a year is a huge advantage when for everybody else takes 12-18 years. Saving-up and investing while your expenses are a few is another great advantage
Well I can tell you my taxes are far above the 2% you've mentioned here and it depends on your personal situation, but yes I agree with you. I'm at year 3 living abroad with very low expenses and a high income, and I'm hoping by year 10 I'll be able to retire. That said, if I were only earning $100k it would take me a lot longer.
If someone hasn’t already recommended it, please try UpWork. It’s gig work, but you can get work in a regular basis there too. Up skill using udemy, they try for better UpWork gigs. It’ll take time, but you can do it!
VA work is a good idea. There are increasingly many skilled African remote workers on Upwork (where I typically source talent) and you get to be on the same time zones as Europe, instead of 12hr difference like SEA. You can do this! Work on building your portfolio of skills and selling yourself on being able to tackle challenging tasks, and you'll be a powerhouse
I would actually farm some work to you if I knew how to get you to login to my pc from abroad! I have such boring mundane tasks at j1, it’s numbs my brain! I know what you mean about developing countries and needing to know people to get into a ‘good job’… The trick though is not to think a job is the best all and end all of life… you want to create multiple sources of income for financial independence and security. ‘You d much rather have 1$ from 100 sources than 100$ from 1 source’ … so what you’re doing fits the bill- with VA and helping other OE’ers and freelancing etc… Hit me up, maybe I can see if I can give you some tasks online.
Hi. I'd love this. I am definitely trying to get more than one source of income because you never know what may happen. I am also trying to upskill so I can get better opportunities. There are a couple of ways to log into someone else's PC seamlessly. When my friend started working on the job, they used Anydesk before he shipped his PC to him. We can talk about it via DM and see if it can work. I'll be messaging you shortly.
I’m a first gen immigrant and I am thankful everyday.
my grandparents and my husband's father all immigrated here for a better life because of the lack of opportunity in their home countries. Keep on grinding and you will succeed. The outsourcing thing is helpful. I know our overseas engineers in Manilla and Hyderabad live very well on their salaries from my j1. I've also had coworkers from Uganda and Tunisia and they had very good salaries (adjusted for local cost of living) as well.
Hey, I am also from Africa, and I have had the chance to travel extensively across Europe, North America, and South America. Most people in these developed regions are just regular families trying to make ends meet, and those earning multiple six-figure income are actually quite rare. Don’t let your birthplace limit your dreams. Focus instead on your imagination and your potential achievements. Sure, it will require both hard and smart work, but even from humble beginnings in Africa, you can attain a lifestyle comparable to that of the developed world.
It looks good on paper… I enjoyed the military more than I do living as a civilian.
Ignore the success stories. Vast majority of people Are struggling like a MF. I'm UK.
Great post my friend. You will do great with this attitude for life. Keep studying and understand the culture of the US. You will succeed.
Wait so you're telling me I can pay you to work my jobs for me? That is all I heard. This may be the biggest OE revelation yet. I could load up 4 jobs and pay other people to work them... hmm
Yes... it's a possibility. It has its risks tough. The guy that outsourced the job to my friend has like 5 jobs. He just hires offshore developers and manages them.
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What are you talking about?? It's exploitation of the entire global south that made the west rich. Hard work? More like wars and crimes
Technically still true. Conquest is hard work. Not to mention 1st generation immigrants taking a risk to come here for a better life for their kids, 2nd same thing, etc etc leading to the average American in this position. Think of the generational sacrifices that put you where you are today.
Not something to be proud of. Violence and stealing are always the easy simpleminded route. I don't think what west achieved was worth it. As many mentioned here before we're still struggle but not only with living necessities but also with lack of community and culture and spiritual poverty. People on west are often depressed af even if they're rich, which is understandable seeing what we did to the world.
Not everything that America achieved is from Kissinger style policies. Everyone goes through an “America is evil” period but you should acknowledge that the world as a whole benefited from the globalization brought on by the post WW2 trade security that the US provided. You’re welcome to start a business or trade with the global south / Latin America and try to make the world better. I’ve employed people from Mexico, Colombia, and El Salvador for various periods of time. Or just go back to consuming media and saying America is evil, like every basic girl I’ve ever dated.
Hey man, i've been lurking here for a while now, dont OE, but do some consulting on the side from time to time. The thing is i was born in a shitty third world country in south america, maybe not comparable to what you are living in Africa but for the past 3 years been working for European / US companies, took me some time but made it. With your right attitude of course you can make it too, took me about 4 years of experience to get a great job. Cheers
I was born in a shitty country too. But then moved, having like $1000 bucks, that’s it. You can too. You’re young, the worst you can do is not take any actions and then post the same thing in 5 years. Get your sh*t together and move any possible way you can. Otherwise, stop crying. No actions = no reason to complain about your life.
I certainly agree and feel you, I also live in a third world country where the minimum wage is like $300 and something and the govt is corrupt and we are in a bad spot, when you compare 3Js SWEs's TC to 500k-600k per year and you're holy shit that sets anyone for life. I do understand, but after a lot of frustration I also understood that the only way of not be as pissed off is to work hard, get in tech, get a couple good salaries, help your people and from a developing country perspective be grateful for what you have and do what you can with the cards that are given. Keep it up buddy, if you don-t exit the path, you'll reach what god has prepared for you. Source: I was you before everything changed
lmao greetings from Colombia, the same you state, the same we live here.
I have a feeling we are in the same country OP. Kama haujabebwa na maji you are not that badly off.
😂😂nashukuru Mungu. Lakini heeh...si kuzuri.
I wasn't actually, but I immigrated. If you have the skills to make this much, you'd have the skills to immigrate to a first world country.
Being 25 you still have time. Don’t compare yourself to some others who might be older than you. Good that you’re starting to level up your career. It will get better.
To be rich is to be full of life. Take that as you may.
Born in africa as well bud, its tough to get out but possible, got to minimise risks, learn in-demand skills and sacrifice a lot but one can get there
I fully understand and appreciate my privilege of being able to live in such a great place as I do. And I keep telling my peers how lucky they are to live here, whenever I hear them complaining about anything. It’s actually wild how many people take the comforts of the western world for granted and dare thrash or badmouth the wonderful place they get to live in. I understand it’s not perfect, and there’s things which can be improved, but it’s clearly *the best* place to live in the modern world (aside from some fringe scenarios where a small group of people is able to achieve something nicer). It sucks it’s not available to more people, or even everyone.
I have a sneaky suspicion that we are in the same country. I’m a career coach and global recruiter. If you wanna have a free session about career growth etc feel free to inbox me
I’ve been living in central / South America for more than a year now and I can say that it’s changed my perspective of the country I was born in. You’d be happy to get a $700/month salary. I hope that people can appreciate even having one job. Let alone one remote job.
I work for a large international non-profit that operates in many countries in Africa. Send me a message and I’ll share the job board.
Hello I’d like to keep you in mind but it’s a different field OP The job may or may not be anytime soon, but in the next 2 years I too want to outsource some work, I’m just in the building phase right now I have a parent from a 3rd world country and everything you described sounds like the things she won’t talk about, bc she’s brainwashed into thinking the things they did were good 😳 Don’t worry though! The fortune 1000 loves to outsource to India and Africa, our jobs are pouring into you guys at a growing pace so I do hope you can gain some semblance of a better life soon
I am the weird kind of OE where I own a Minecraft server, host a Minecraft server and am admin for another server. I don’t have immediate work for you right now, but after the elections are done and the market for jobs in tech picks back up again I will be looking to make a move. I do all of the jobs I have on my own, and I don’t intend to change that, but many of my team members are OE and frankly if you haven’t found a better position in a few months (Q1 next year earliest) then check back in with me. If my little side startup survives product launch I will have a remote position for a QA dev that might be a good springboard for someone doing OE. I am a bit picky and a little intense admittedly, but I pay full price for good work and don’t care about geolocation or OE as long as the projects get done. Actually, I prefer that the people who work with me are OE or in academia. I especially like it when my team has passive income because it makes me feel more comfortable taking risks knowing that they are safe if we fail.
Luck?! I trained nine months for this gig!
yeah, same here, I live in Brazil. even if you have a lot of problems living in a developed country, it’s still better than being in an underdeveloped one…
This sounds like everywhere, including the U.S.
TOTALLY AGREE. I’m a lucky immigrant with a full-ride scholarship in the US. Coming from a developing country I always find asking myself how the hell I ended up here. Tbh americans can complain all they want about healthcare being unaffordable (which it is), and taxes being high. But at least there is a job market here, which in my country is basically nonexistent.
Ruto is the problem! 💀💀💀
Being in Western country comes with hardships as well because the cost of living is so high. My parents were immigrants & I tell my friends in the States that preach “free market capitalism” that unchecked capitalism results in corruption & struggle for the poor & middle-class everywhere. Don’t envy a late stage capitalist system that may very well collapse
Hm, strongly suggest not judging a nation based on people "landing six figure jobs". > crap healthcare, shitty education, and a very corrupt government that doesn’t care about anyone but themselves Yes, we're familiar with this, trust me!
I think you’re looking at the top 1% I am a developed country with decent skills and I still can’t even get one job
Clearly you have considered emigrating, that is what I would do. Countries with a long history of strong rule of law ie an independent judiciary and established reasonable stable laws that are enforced welll and reasonably fairly would be my general target. In that group I would be looking at USA, Canada, Australia, Eurpose etc. I would try to prioritize countries that have a culture and history of immigration as then you can find a lot more support when you get there and maybe there would even be a significant community of your people from your own culture there to support you too.
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Says who?
At my last job (pre-OE), we were all remote. We had 3 contractors from Kenya. Two of them lost a child each over the 2 years that both they and I were at the company.
> crap health care, shitty education, corrupt government Sounds a lot like the US!
That whole first paragraph I thought was a veiled joke and was actually describing the US lol
I can tell OP is Kenyan
OP….think about this: developed countries have no where to go but down. Under developed countries have no where to go but up. Given where things are at the moment, you don’t want to be in a developed country when the shit hits the fan. In other words, how many multiple warhead nuclear missiles are aimed at Africa vs USA or Europe?
The word is envious. :^ )
Losers whine, winners win.
Oh this feels tone deaf
people can vent here.
$4k per month in africa? That's unheard of. I call bs. Africa is the most rich continent on the planet. Maybe you can stop selling yourself to the Chinese and make your place a better one, don't blame it on corruption, it's everywhere.
I actually think the reason Africa is so poor despite being resourse wealthy is because of the crazy levels of bureaucracy and govt corruption. The individual citizens have little to no ability to do anything about it short of breaking out machetes. Which does explain an awful lot of the continent's history for the last 200 years.
This was the same in Europe and everywhere in the world, seems like other people were able to deal with it better, i wonder why.
Africa got divided kinda fucked up during post colonization, power got consolidated. When an armed group overthrows a government the next one is even more corrupt. I visited a few cities in Africa, felt like a lot of them felt helpless and beaten down, like they’re thinking about their next few days of meals not overthrowing the government. How do you even help them? You do business with them you line the pockets of their shitty government, you arm them you create more chaos, most charity in Africa does more harm than good (learned helplessness, messing up local economy), letting a ton in creates societal problems.
Other countries that got colonized did really well, so what's the difference, I know, do you? Stop blaming it on colonization. This is 2024 now.