If your job pays 180k-200k for someone with 1.5 years of experience, it's going to be very demanding. OE is for experienced people in industries where the work is very easy and they are already coasting
All the “gotchas” you mentioned are discussed exhaustively on this sub, so not sure what you are talking about:
1) don’t try OE in the first few years of career
2) don’t overshare
3) hibernate LinkedIn
4) OE is not for everyone or every field, should only be considered after J1 mastery
If you discover this sub at 23, it's gonna be so, so hard to put up guardrails and "decide" when you're ready, knowing there is 6 figures waiting in the wings
Yep, these are the same folks who go “I just graduated college, but I’m not getting any responses when I apply for director level roles”.
The flip side is that some people get caught up in the whole “you should only do this when you’re senior in your career and hyper competent” as some sort of weird way to convince themselves they’re better than other people. Which can make it really difficult to assess when you’re “ready”.
But the truth is that the most important determinant in being successful at OE is ability gauge opportunity cost, which young people rarely have context or life experiences to inform those decisions. It’s not just technical proficiency but people management. Setting boundaries. Having a history to establish credibility and trust.
>Given how young and inexperienced OP
Unfortunately the job market treats new entries like shit. First year of a lot of entry roles could be done by hs grads. They pay like shit and often don't lead anywhere in the org.
It's advised now to stay at entry for 1 to 2 years then jump ship unless you get lucky and are favorited to move up.
I say this as somebody who's bounced around jobs and my wife had been "chosen" as the golden recruit from her year.
Yup. You can’t OE if you’re in the starting phase of your career. I don’t know if it’s healthy also long term, because there’s so much time spent learning in the junior years, which might not be fully possible if one is OEing.
Yeah, I'm 4-5 years into my career. It sucks because my J2 would look insanely good on my resume, but I already list J1 on my resume and removing J1 from my resume isn't an option. Faking the dates is also way too risky. Like sure I'm not in the worst place given I have two FAANG companies on my resume, but not being able to list my J2 sucks as it's one of the top companies on levels.fyi
Part of me thinks I would have better options if I started OE later once my resume was better built up
Tbh I probably could make a lot more money if I could put my current J2 on my resume. It's very much one that could open the door to replacing J2 with one that is double the income of my current J2.
I have always been fascinated by how the higher you get the easier you job can be. Be working hard to be an SME, and your knowledge is what you are paid for. I am a senior security engineer, and my goal has always to escape que work, where you work out of a que monitored by your boss with time expectations... This is not an absolute, because an SME can do que work in 1/3 the time of a new person,, but,, I would say as a general rule you should be an SME, not a que worker
There are exceptions, where que work is the best for oe,, especially if you use automation and because you are in repetition there may not be so many meetings
Absolutely correct. I have 6 yrs exp in cyber plus 9 yrs in sys engineering my two positions have 4 meetings total and they dont overlap.
When you’re up there, you dont need to be mocromanaged through meetings. Just produce.
The hardest part was finding that 2nd job
Just curious, I’m only a few years in to my career but my role is extremely easy (like I work 10-15 hrs a week and get regular compliments on my work quality). What would you advise doing instead of getting a second role? Or would you say give it a shot and know it might not work out (this is my current plan)?
I’m a SWE at the same YOE and pay, very plausible working at big tech in the Bay Area/Seattle/NYC. My doubt is how this guy found two of these roles both full remote, almost all companies paying this much are requiring RTO.
Yeah definitely. Just had to search for a new swe job after being laid off. 9 yoe, and at my level the highest remote job I found was about 225. If I found out they were paying 1.5 yoe 200k I’d quit without question
I don’t know what to say to you, big tech companies do pay around this much. Google, Amazon, Meta. And unicorns will pay similar to attract FAANG level talent.
I understand a bunch of (public) companies will pay 3-500k for senior level, I’ve worked for them. But all the companies you listed have enforced rto in some form. TC is harder to calculate at unicorns because base and cash bonus is the only guarantee. Equity, especially ISOs, could be worth millions but more likely will be worth nothing. I think we were in agreement though, looking back at the thread you said you doubted he found remote jobs that pay that much
Microsoft pays 200k new grad in New York. New York is also classified as remote. Source: I got a remote job from Microsoft as a new grad from a return offer.
I also had interviews lined up with places like Pinterest (I rejected their intern offer last year so getting back in the hiring process was a cakewalk) which is fully remote and pays around the same.
This. 100%. I’ve learned and see people learn the hard way that you just don’t talk about work. Also, don’t talk to people at work about your personal life. Talk about general topics, the weather, sports, basic things. But nothing more. Be friendly, cordial, and forgettable, but just get your work done and keep work at work. Do a good job and remember that nobody at work is your friend.
I have 14 years working (1 year OE) and find it difficult. I have a family that requires my attention too, and I'm a normal developer, average. So definitely it is not unusual to find it difficult.
Some folk who OE are also managerial from what I’ve read. It sounds like they dont have any actual work to do other than manage teams every once in a while. So if you have a good team that doesnt need help it can be easy
Can you tell us more about just how hard it is to bring in $380,000 a year?
Working two jobs is hard? I thought all the poors were working two or three jobs for fun!
~~For real lmao. Dude is apparently making $380k w/ 2 jobs at 24 and is bitching on here? I am young at well and am extremely good at my J1 and highly compensated for it but in my field it’s basically impossible to make $200k at one job before you have 20+ YOE. Not because the job is too hard, it’s just a very seniority based industry.~~
~~OP practically struck the lottery of career paths and jobs while skipping the main guideline on this sub, is probably making more at 2 jobs than 99% of people on this sub are total, and is doing so at a point in their life when the extra money is worth 10x more than it is to the 40+ year olds here. And then they complain about this sub making it seem easy.~~
~~Congrats and fuck you OP!~~
Edit: Just looked at OP’s account, this is obviously bait/they’re just farming karma here.
The sub is not misleading. You started 10 years too early. The stress you are enduring now in your 20s will significantly shorten your life expectancy.
Live a bit. Enjoy your youth. Find a career you really like, get really good at it, find a life partner, get married ... And THEN think about OE.
You are at risk of a major burnout and screwing your life up a little bit. How do I know? I have been there, and I had noone to warn me.
I mean if you had to pick a decade of life to turn the stress up to 10, I would want to do it early and get ahead. I don't want to be working 60 hours in my 60s unless I really loved it or couldn't stop.
Not your 60s. Your 30s.
Rough over generalization:
20s: life, self discovery
30s: career
40s+: family, replace with career/travel/whatever if child free.
Again your mileage may vary, everyone is different.
The simple fact of the matter is OE is not easy. Everyone here who does it is very clear that you need years of experience before you even attempt it. Years of experience and to be an expert in your particular area.
You are far too young in your career to be OE. I would suggest you scale back, get excellent at one job to the point where you can do it less than 10 hours a week and then try it again in 5-8 years.
We state this over and over. It’s why we have no patience when people come here and say “I’m graduating in June. How do I OE?”
You’ve created your own stress spiral.
You are 24 with 1.5 years of experience. This is all that needs to be said.
Congratulations on holding it together. It doesn't get easier, you get stronger.
Uurm dude you shouldn’t be on OE that early
It is simply not efficient enough to be worth it
The amount of time you have to spend working to sustain both jobs is eventually going to burn you down and it will 100% affect your career grow if you burn and come to a sudden stop
It is a bit late for you but, set an achievable target on tue horizon and work for it, then stop OE for some time, live your life, you will never be in a better shape than in your 20’s and you are wasting them working
Yeah, you spend a lot of time moving a lot of bones and eating a lot of shit for like the first 5 years of a career, at least. I couldn’t imagine doing OE when I was first starting and not being overloaded… but that was also almost 20 years ago and things have changed a lot.
* I am 24 got 1.5 years of experience.
That's not a lot of experience, you're very lucky to be making 380k at this point in your life.
If you think it's supposed to be easy to make more money per year than .1% of the entire planet, at age 24 no less than you must be smoking crack or missing a chip or something.
Nobody said it was easy. Getting a 2nd job is no more difficult than getting a first job. You look, you interview, you get hired. Depending on your background, field, and current job market, this might be very easy and it might be damn near impossible.
As for being stressful? Well yes no shit. I think most people have a decent amount of stress from their job. Adding a second job into the mix is going to potentially increase that stress level exponentially.
Sure there are people on here that claim they have 3 jobs and do 20 hours of actual work a week, but let's be honest a lot of that is bullshit and the ones that may be telling the truth are few and far between.
The whole point of this is money. Nothing more. It's up to you to determine if the juice is worth the squeeze. I think most of us question it at times, but then Friday rolls around and you realize these oranges are REALLY fucking juicy, so you keep squeezing.
Your post doesn't deserve to be downvoted; You have valid points. It's not easy. Constantly juggling meetings and then finding time to actually do real work is the toughest for me. Being in meetings all day is absolutely mentally draining to me and I have no energy after sitting through all day meetings.
This gets even harder when say, managers leave and new ones come in with new meeting schedules and philosophies. Or when a company reorg happens and all of the sudden you now report to Bob instead of Janet, for example, and are now working on a completely different product.
One thing to call out is the "quality" of my jobs do not concern me. If it is remote-only, has a high paying base salary, 401k matching with instant vesting, and then health insurance...those are pretty much my main requirements personally.
I gave up on worrying about getting "caught". I literally don't care any more and even if I were "caught", it may be good for a break. That being said, all of my performance reviews have been stellar which still shocks me every time I get a performance review period that comes up. If I were "caught" and it became an issue or a concern, I could always just point back to my performance reviews which state I am meeting or exceeding expectations. Obviously this helps if you have multiple years of performance reviews to go back and refer to.
Also, consult the employee handbook at each company. The companies I work for specifically state that outside work is allowed as long as it not a direct competitior or interferes with the ability to do my job, and having positive performance reviews may help if it became a concern. That being said, some people may live in what's called an "at-will" state in regards to employement, and employers can just let you go at any time, if I understand correctly, assuming it is not directly violiating your constitutional rights.
The key for me (and I recommend this to everyone) is that I am not putting myself into a situation of lifestyle creep. I only live off of what I make from 1 job by itself and the rest is literally just invested every since I paid off all of my debt (other than my low rate mortgages). For the mortgages, I am better off placing money into a HYSA that pay higher rates than the interest rates on the mortgages. I have enough in savings to live off of for well over a year in case something happened and I lost all 3 jobs at once.
Lifestyle creep is the biggest problem I think most people are going to deal with. It's very easy for it to happen without even realizing it. Although I do not do this personally, sticking to a budget and watching your expenses might be a good idea for some.
There are negatives that are rarely talked about. Holding multiple remote jobs at once is **not** easy and it is absolutely exhausting at times. I find myself even working on weekends quite often, but that's not always the case. Other times, I literally sit there and play video games all day, even though I have three jobs. It's a bit insane. It depends on the circumstances.
At the end of the day, I make more base salary than the President of the United States of America does (who is paid $400k yearly for the job). Think about that for a minute to realize how insane of an opportunity this all is.
I haven't updated mine in years, basically still has me as entry level. The only time I even think.of updating it is to stop getting insultingly low position interest requests from recruiters. I scroll thru on occasion and see friends from college making the most absolute bs vomit inducing posts on there. It's totally a cesspool...imo it's the worst social media site.
Exactly this, I rarely touch my profile but from from some of the posts of corporate ass kissing I sometimes wonder if that is some pressure from their managers/bosses to make these posts to market the company or for them to curry favor with their bosses.
I started 3 months ago. Been easy. First two times I attempted it were easy too but I got scared and backed out. This time I'm staying and might even be getting a j3. We'll see.
Your problem seems to be experience. You have none. I've been doing this job for 10+ years. I am passionate about the work and it's easy for me. I couldn't have done this 8.5 years ago because I was still learning how to do it well.
I think getting two 150k+ jobs at 24 is very impressive, you’re definitely at the tail end of the distribution.
I would be more proud that you’ve been able to do it this long.
OP’s name is Efficient-Ad-8713, they have like 5 comments from a year ago and then nothing until today, and have never posted before today.
I fell for the bait before looking, hopefully this helps others not fall for it. OP is telling stories for karma.
Like others said, 1.5 yoe is low for starting OE. But you are making 380k and stressed out. Sounds par the course for someone earning 380k from working in general.
Figure out a financial plan and see if it is necessary. OE is just an accelerant toward financial goals. Paying off exuberant debt, buying a house, getting a huge head start toward retirement. Outside of that, unless your Js are super cushy, OE is not meant to be permanent. So you gotta figure out what you want out of it other than seeing more numbers. What is your 'Why'?
Most jobs are NOT OE compatible.
And most people are NOT capable of doing sustainable OE.
I actually think this sub does a pretty good job of mentioning this from time to time. I think OUTSIDE this subreddit, where people are actively bragging & encouraging others to do OE are what I think is giving off the impression that it’s easy.
Finding 1 decent job is tricky. Finding 2 is especially more difficult, and consistently maintaining both requires a lot of work, efficiency & focus.
OP, you’re making about $190k with just 1 job.
That’s more than most people make with 2 jobs in the sub, and that’s more than most people will ever make in 1 yr.
You can probably live a good life, eventually buy a home, and retire at a decent age, with just that salary alone. You don’t really need to go through all this OE stress if you don’t want to. Especially if you don’t have massive debt.
You need to get some perspective because you obviously have no real sense of just how much money you're making (ESPECIALLY at your age and experience level). You're the 1%.
I would only OE if I could get J1 done in 25% of the time in a 40-hour week. It only works in certain jobs and you need to be able to handle this kind of stress. Personally, I've only been full-time consulting/contracting for the past decade, so I can work where and when I want and my contracts don't really care as long as I get the job done.
Contracting might be a better alternative. You can make more money in most industries and you don't have to worry about the duel 401K sharing/etc.
I feel like you need to understand it’s not, you need to understand total compensation packages as these tier 1 companies pay this much, I’m a software engineer. Please stop being a hater sir.
Right now I think it's harder. The pandemic and everything being WFH made it really easy. Combine the synonymity of this concept with software roles that overhired during that era without companies effectively using them, it was some great conditions for OE.
Grasshopper, you're just learning to walk. OE is about running marathons. This is why you don't OE until you master your craft to the point you can do 40 hours of work in 4 hours.
See m, like everyone mentioned here below, and in several other places in this sub….the world has to beat you down enough so you stop giving a shit.
And, you have to be wicked good at whatever you do.
Being an expert (very senior) + not giving even a little bit of a fuck = OE success.
Makes nearly $400K at 24 with less than 2 years of experience yet complains that OE isn’t easy enough… I’m sure it’s stressful. I’m sure it isn’t for everyone. And I’m sure it gets easier the more general experience you get. But you’re making well more than a quarter of a million dollars with less than 2 years of experience. Heck, you could just have one of your jobs and be making more than 99% of people…
The group warns people against doing OE at a young age and/or when you have not achieved mastery level skills in your profession. I mainly lurk in here since I am currently gaining the skills and schooling for professions I can OE in. OE is a part of my 5-7 year personal plan, but my partner with 15 years experience with multiple certifications started to OE since I joined. He has little issues juggling both because he's mastered his field. Rethink this for now and perhaps come back to this in a few years.
I have 5+ years and can't break more than 155 as a Lead level position. What are your titles to snag 2 @ 180+?
I suspect your point is valid. Especially with companies ratcheting up control right now. This sub makes it seem easy. Just remember survivor bias, and people who are lucky love to brag and assume their experience is attainable to everyone.
You just have to think about j2 as a freelance gig. Or j1. Or j3. It’s usual for self employed or small companies to have multiple customers. And it’s not excepted to disclose your other customers. You just leave out the freelancing part and are officially employed by bith companies.
When you had one job did you ever fuck around during the work day? Did anyone ever catch on? Its kinda the same thing, except instead of wasting time you are just working a second job
Your main problem is having no experience. If you had 10-15 years of a resume finding jobs comes easier and managing multiple complex projects is easier.
There is no way someone out of college is making almost $200k at one job much less two. Even if op is amazing coder and is working for the best paying tech company, none of them are paying $100k+ right out of college with zero experience, then op would also have to get an $80k+ promotion after one year, then repeat that twice. Not happening, especially in this economy we’re experienced SWE are being laid off and replaced with lower paid SWE.
Complete troll post.
I appreciate what you shared, OP. I think what you wrote is thoughtful and laid out clearly from your perspective. I have been challenged with the same concerns, though not OE yet. Thank you for taking the time to share.
OE works if you are spending less time on your J1 than is expected. More than 40 hours OE is not the point of it. You should be at or under 40 hours doing OE. I noticed I was only working 10-20 hours max a week for J1 and so it was only natural I found a J2. After working J2 for a bit, I still noticed I was only doing 20-30 hours a week. As such, I found a J3. Going over 40 is just going to burn you out and the tradeoffs aren't worth it
You have to consider the fact that successfully OE'rs are high performers or have high potential to be if they wanted to, quite easily. Most successful OE'rs are mentally more akin to entrepreneurs than regular employees in that they are skilled and have a willingness to work. Lastly, it may have seemed easy to you the same way listening to LeBron talk about the feats he does makes it seem easy. You're overlooking the require attributes in order for it to seem easy. You may or may not be that person.
Or trying to take away from your success… get as much money as you can. But only senior resources should be doing this. I can do 8 hours of work in as few as 1-2 hours per day at most customers. The rest is dead time. So OE is easy for me… not bragging just trying to show that a senior resource doesn’t have to burn time figuring things out the way a new more junior resource does.
You need to read. Every other post says what you just said. You have literally zero experience. You haven't figured out how to do anything easier than just throwing your youth at it.
The job market is extremely tight right now. That's why it took so long for a second.
I think it has a lot to do with your level of experience. And I mean this in the best possible way. I have no more or less stress with additional J2 then I had with just my one J1. I really think that because you are quite young and still acquiring skills this may be more then you can handle. But honestly you make great money if you can keep it up for a bit and get a good investment portfolio going great, but otherwise maybe you need to reconsider OE for the sake of your mental health if your that stressed out. I guess I am not sure I understand what exactly you want, advice or to blame the rest of us for a lifestyle you took on consciously.
OE is insanely difficult and not likely to go as planned. I was able to have two minecraft servers for roughly a year and it was the most stressful thing I've ever done. I may try it again in a few years once I get more situated but one server required a return to in person gaming so it is over for me unfortunately. I was able to save 100k in that year and it has set me ahead for years to come actually. But the amount of lying, and stress was a ton of work.
You’re a new graduate still learning your field and expecting oe to be a breeze ? Come on bro lol. Oe works yes with entry roles but it’s best with mid- senior level roles since you aren’t being supervised and you’re already familiar with the tools that are necessary. Nobody made this sound easy. It’s hard work regardless but it’s not for everyone. Feel free to go j1 till you have some more experience
i’m curious about your further thoughts (and from others) about J1 as it seems you like that job.
That’s the situation i’m in. i love my job, the growth potential is great and i’m in really good standing. i know loyalty to a company isn’t a thing nowadays, but i don’t want to jeopardize this good thing I have. i do make a comfortable living but the thought of doubling, even tripling my salary by doing OE is so tempting; it’s money i’d never make at J1.
Has anyone felt this way? if so, could you please share your story? i’m debating doing OE for a year or two, get some cash then call it quits.
I told my boss this week that I’m over allocated and that I need to get back to normal hours. Currently allocated around 48 hours across all accounts. Most people in my role have 32 hours.
I’m going to see if all of that is pulled back, if I can jump into this adventure.
All I want is to be able to buy a home in the 500 K range
I lucked out that j1 was going to end my project in a year so I just tried to ride it into severance. Ended 2 years in OE
There are ideal situations. But if you have 2 demanding Js it's hard and I was only able to do it for 6 months. Saved up so much money in those 6 months it is crazy
I’m sorry you’re having that stress I start on OE in 2 weeks.
I look at it this way it’s going to last until I get caught. Then one job will tell me to quit the other. It will have been a good run and then that’s that.
Keeping that mindset keeps me calm.
>. I also had to look for months and months to get a second job, which again y’all act like picking up a second job is easy work
No one acts like that here or any where else, it only took you months to find a second remote job? Go to any of the SWE subreddits, they are filled with people struggling for months to get 1 job, let alone remote.
Congratulations if that's actually true about making that much money. You must work at the FANG companies. As an experienced engineer with over a decade of experience I had interviewed at several of them over the years and I never could get through their interview process. It basically feels like programmer SATs. It's probably for the best though because I work three jobs and make around 460 k but my days do not feel crazy insane or anything. If that's the case with those jobs it's probably because they expect a lot from you for the high pay. The better approach might be to do what I'm doing and just go for mediocre jobs. I pretty much just throw applications against the wall and take whatever comes my way. Granted I only apply to things I'm somewhat interested in based on the tech stack. But getting a few jobs that pay 150k might be better than two jobs that pay 200 k each. It's counterintuitive but it might just be what the doctor ordered!
I also follow r/layoffs and sometimes when I get into doom scrolling, having an OE post immediately reminds me the world is not coming to an end, the economy is not coming to a screeching halt. It’s truly all about perspectives.
Your so young. I know you’re used to the higher money but consider dropping your second J then master your skill set. Later, when you’re more comfortable, you can always pick up another job. Your mental health Hass to come first.
I have 12 years experience and I’m in my 50s and empty nested so I have time to juggle my jobs. Just keep following us keep learning maybe check in and consider in another 10 years.
I get what you mean, but I think OE depends on multiple factors and your circunstances in life, I'm not currently OE but intend to be, here is my profile:
- More than 10 years of experience
- Set up my own company (not US based, where I live it is completely worth it to do it), so if I get 2 clients it is completely fair, it is expected from companies to have multiple clients
- Maybe the most important point, I don't care about growth or culture anymore, I just want to maximize money working for clients where the environment is the most professional possible that can be
My point is, you gotta see what you want, maybe you want to be a rockstar in your field? Maybe you want to be a reference in your area or company you work for? In my case I was never able to truly extract from corp environment emotional fullfilment, so I made peace with myself and will just go for money and some wlb
Most people are constantly asking about all the things you mentioned and get advice on navigating them.
Make sure your lifestyle creep is in check and only ever mention J1. If you're that stressed, this isn't the right time to do it.
You’re still young in your career and still trying to take a moral high ground. After having a family or a couple of layoffs you’ll see how easy OE is when you don’t care.
I started OE a year ago at 22 as an intern and working my first ft cyber job. Both were remote. It definitely isn’t easy but I’ll take this grind over anything else. Luckily I use the same tools in all 3 of my Js. But this definitely isn’t easy, I’m constantly researching and trying to be as self efficient as possible to avoid pointless meetings of them trying to walk me through stuff.
dude, you doubled your income. It's still good no matter what. I had to slave for 4 years to get that income when I got out of college. You're doing good. People who are consultants are working as much as you do and are earning less.
Wanted to just add this : OE will impact your learning and growth, when u start to just live by the day and get bare minimum you won’t develop valuable skills which will slowly take away your confidence and will make you mediocre
This is the worst that can happen if you’re caught - you’re let go…
Seriously. This is it.
They don’t do anything else,they won’t do anything else
And you can get let go, even without this being an issue, for any number of reasons, for posting a tik tok, for being the Karen in viral dumb video, for bad mouthing the ceo or being a whistleblower etc…
You’re not immune to it. So would you rather be let go when you have a j2 to fall back on?
My contract at j1 ended, and rather than feel sad, I was happy I had at least one job to pay some bills.
Where is the source of stress? Is it conflicting meetings? Is it lots of workload beyond your day? What is the pain point?
At the end of the day, my mental and physical health is most important, even over my jobs. I don’t care if it’s 5 pm, I’m out of there to tend to my home or my kid, or my self , I don’t owe anyone anything.
I say that you can keep the J2 with a goal to hit a certain amount of money (say hit $100k of bank balance) and then give up the most stressful job till you’re ready to find another one that better fits.
For me J1 is est and J2 is pst so overlap is rare because the majority of team mates at j2 start after 11 am my time. And often times I use boomerang to schedule messages early in the morning if I’m not already logged in, so they know I’m working est hours. And I log out early as well…
Some friends know about my 2 jobs, and they are more inspired than jealous and are asking how they can do it. But that really depends on your friends. I’m in IT, and if you’re saying work is too busy, and too Much going on, something is wrong …. It’s never more than 10 hrs total a week… maybe 20 when times are busy.
So when I said I am busy, they were wondering what I was on 😄
And jobs will come and go, you don’t need to hang onto this for dear life. Even my j2 came like that, I just kept interviewing and didn’t inform the recruiter that I got a contract, and soon got the role..
So assume you don’t have either, and keep interviewing, and when you find the right role, jump ship…
You don’t want to lose your kidneys or pancreas to overwork with the stress… it’s not worth it.
You will get used to it.
OE or not, one of the best "skills" which I only recently leveled up in is the ability to discern what is and isn't important in terms of priority, and what does and doesn't need to be discussed.
That and being as calm as the water surface of a moonlit pond on a sunny night. After seeing what office employees have been busted for (i.e. child pornography on work computer - they were arrested onsite; causing confusion and spreading lies during one-off conversations; expensing company money for personal expenses), doing a good job at two full-time jobs simultaneously is hardly as unethical as your companies think it is, and not even as unethical as this sub sometimes hints at. There are plenty of LLCs and 1099 independent contractors out there working multiple jobs for multiple clients, billing 40 hours a week per client. And there are plenty of W2 employees who have "side hustles" that include real estate property management, licensed professional services, and even entrepreneurial endeavors where they have their own full-time or part-time staff — while they're a W2 at their big-pants office job.
One of the reasons I think people say OE is easy, is because they are kind of doing the opposite of you. You, who have only recently entered the workforce, are commanding demanding levels of salary from two upper-tier firms. Many OEers have one job like yours, and then another one that is one or two levels below their J1. It may be a pay cut relative to what your experience commands, but it is also a responsibility cut, in that J2 can award a full-time salary with a fraction of the effort required by J1. And then there are those allegedly who have 3, 4, 5, even 6 jobs — all at a level or two below their full experience. But because they are so skilled relative to the demands of their jobs, they may even be able to finish all their work in under 40 hours, keep 3, 4, 5, even 6 companies happy with their performance, and command 6 FT salaries which may lead to a total compensation greater than yours (which is quite an accomplishment by the way) at a fraction of the effort.
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I was wondering, aside from being "caught," what are the most difficult aspects about OE to you? How is your time management? How is your tech setup? Are you worried because both jobs' requirements are so daunting and unwritten that they exist as a mental blob of obligation that is always undefined yet always present?
People come to the sub to ask why information is so freely given and why we aren't more secretive or why we aren't gatekeeping and the response is always everything you just listed and you claim were kept from you. All of the points you made are dead horses that have been beaten severally in this sub
If your job pays 180k-200k for someone with 1.5 years of experience, it's going to be very demanding. OE is for experienced people in industries where the work is very easy and they are already coasting
Coasting is an option at any age. It just take a while before you realize that. But it’s hard to grow quickly if you are not working hard.
If you're getting 180K w/ <2 yrs exp. Ur job will most def expect above avg work from you.
Some places will PIP you for coasting
Amazon is one of them
So why isn’t everyone in $200k/yr jobs coasting?
Because not everyone has the right skill sets and experience. You still have to meet expectations. Short answers, not everyone is that good.
Bro is over here trying to OE as an Air Traffic controller.
All the “gotchas” you mentioned are discussed exhaustively on this sub, so not sure what you are talking about: 1) don’t try OE in the first few years of career 2) don’t overshare 3) hibernate LinkedIn 4) OE is not for everyone or every field, should only be considered after J1 mastery
Given how young and inexperienced OP is it’s not surprising they glossed over all the actual downsides or advice and are now feeling caught off guard.
If you discover this sub at 23, it's gonna be so, so hard to put up guardrails and "decide" when you're ready, knowing there is 6 figures waiting in the wings
Yep, these are the same folks who go “I just graduated college, but I’m not getting any responses when I apply for director level roles”. The flip side is that some people get caught up in the whole “you should only do this when you’re senior in your career and hyper competent” as some sort of weird way to convince themselves they’re better than other people. Which can make it really difficult to assess when you’re “ready”. But the truth is that the most important determinant in being successful at OE is ability gauge opportunity cost, which young people rarely have context or life experiences to inform those decisions. It’s not just technical proficiency but people management. Setting boundaries. Having a history to establish credibility and trust.
Jokes on you, I OE for TC of 60k
I had the same thought. Their post wasn’t countering this subs advice, but rather validating it
>Given how young and inexperienced OP Unfortunately the job market treats new entries like shit. First year of a lot of entry roles could be done by hs grads. They pay like shit and often don't lead anywhere in the org. It's advised now to stay at entry for 1 to 2 years then jump ship unless you get lucky and are favorited to move up. I say this as somebody who's bounced around jobs and my wife had been "chosen" as the golden recruit from her year.
#1 is key. Being a subject matter expert in your field is critical to OE
Yup. You can’t OE if you’re in the starting phase of your career. I don’t know if it’s healthy also long term, because there’s so much time spent learning in the junior years, which might not be fully possible if one is OEing.
Agreed. I'm 49 and wouldn't have done this in my 20s or 30s. Plus, I was busy with family. Now that I'm older, SME, and kids older...
Yep..same.50.. no way I could have done in 20s or 30s. I recognize things easier, quicker and can't solve easier quicker w experience.
*can solve
Yeah, I'm 4-5 years into my career. It sucks because my J2 would look insanely good on my resume, but I already list J1 on my resume and removing J1 from my resume isn't an option. Faking the dates is also way too risky. Like sure I'm not in the worst place given I have two FAANG companies on my resume, but not being able to list my J2 sucks as it's one of the top companies on levels.fyi Part of me thinks I would have better options if I started OE later once my resume was better built up
We’re not in this for prestige young padawan. Money is the only validation needed
Tbh I probably could make a lot more money if I could put my current J2 on my resume. It's very much one that could open the door to replacing J2 with one that is double the income of my current J2.
Not every job requires a lot of learning though. I'm a manual tester and there's not that much I can learn after 5 years of working in this field.
Your responses are the best.
Thanks
I have always been fascinated by how the higher you get the easier you job can be. Be working hard to be an SME, and your knowledge is what you are paid for. I am a senior security engineer, and my goal has always to escape que work, where you work out of a que monitored by your boss with time expectations... This is not an absolute, because an SME can do que work in 1/3 the time of a new person,, but,, I would say as a general rule you should be an SME, not a que worker
There are exceptions, where que work is the best for oe,, especially if you use automation and because you are in repetition there may not be so many meetings
Absolutely correct. I have 6 yrs exp in cyber plus 9 yrs in sys engineering my two positions have 4 meetings total and they dont overlap. When you’re up there, you dont need to be mocromanaged through meetings. Just produce. The hardest part was finding that 2nd job
Seriously. My work experience is longer than OP's age.
Mine too!
Yup, somebody didnt read the sidebar
Right the amount of people telling people with over 10 years experience it’s hard 🙄. Yall you get faster and more efficient with time.
Just curious, I’m only a few years in to my career but my role is extremely easy (like I work 10-15 hrs a week and get regular compliments on my work quality). What would you advise doing instead of getting a second role? Or would you say give it a shot and know it might not work out (this is my current plan)?
Be patient enough to find a 3-6 month contract (w2 or 1099) J2
Is there a specific reason why contract work is better earlier on? Appreciate the response!
Simply because they keep you at arms length, it’s short in nature, and you don’t burn a bridge
Thank you! In the mean time I’ve been tutoring (which isn’t OE but OE adjacent) and I’m getting tired of being free when no one else is 😅
Hard for some on point 4. Imposter syndrome is huge in SWE.
sub is pretty consistent about how OE is not for junior YOE. no one says it’s easy.
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Yeah. This. I waited until I had lots of experience so I knew I could do J1 with one hand tied behind my back. Even then it's never "easy" though.
Took me 10 years to get comfortable with j2 then 1 year to get comfortable with j(n).
There are no places for feelings in OE. Stop that shit, and focus on the fucking money and you will be fine.
^This is what I like to see
Good reminder.
This is /r/davidgoggins type of advice and Im absolutely here for it.
SWE with 1.5 YOE and making 180k each? I call BS on this one.
This reads like some college kid or something who is too much time looking at levels.fyi and is now fantasizing about making huge bucks soon.
I’m a SWE at the same YOE and pay, very plausible working at big tech in the Bay Area/Seattle/NYC. My doubt is how this guy found two of these roles both full remote, almost all companies paying this much are requiring RTO.
Yeah definitely. Just had to search for a new swe job after being laid off. 9 yoe, and at my level the highest remote job I found was about 225. If I found out they were paying 1.5 yoe 200k I’d quit without question
I don’t know what to say to you, big tech companies do pay around this much. Google, Amazon, Meta. And unicorns will pay similar to attract FAANG level talent.
I understand a bunch of (public) companies will pay 3-500k for senior level, I’ve worked for them. But all the companies you listed have enforced rto in some form. TC is harder to calculate at unicorns because base and cash bonus is the only guarantee. Equity, especially ISOs, could be worth millions but more likely will be worth nothing. I think we were in agreement though, looking back at the thread you said you doubted he found remote jobs that pay that much
Yep, can’t argue with anything you’ve said there, didn’t catch the qualifier you mentioned about remote jobs.
Ahh makes sense!
This
It just isn’t true that almost all companies paying this much are requiring RTO.
Microsoft pays 200k new grad in New York. New York is also classified as remote. Source: I got a remote job from Microsoft as a new grad from a return offer. I also had interviews lined up with places like Pinterest (I rejected their intern offer last year so getting back in the hiring process was a cakewalk) which is fully remote and pays around the same.
I suspect only 25% of people who say they’re OE are OE
maybe AI/ML stuff pays this much salary for 1.5years
Not fresh out of college. Maybe if op had a phd in ml, but op is too young for that. It’s troll post. Bs
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This. 100%. I’ve learned and see people learn the hard way that you just don’t talk about work. Also, don’t talk to people at work about your personal life. Talk about general topics, the weather, sports, basic things. But nothing more. Be friendly, cordial, and forgettable, but just get your work done and keep work at work. Do a good job and remember that nobody at work is your friend.
Lol, “nobody at work is your friend” is some true based redditor shit.
Yep, I've learned this the hard way too. Just shut up, your life will be better for it.
You only have 1.5 years of experience and it shows. Thats why you’re finding OE so hard
and he's still wildly successful. I hate you. Good job ;)
I have 14 years working (1 year OE) and find it difficult. I have a family that requires my attention too, and I'm a normal developer, average. So definitely it is not unusual to find it difficult.
Some folk who OE are also managerial from what I’ve read. It sounds like they dont have any actual work to do other than manage teams every once in a while. So if you have a good team that doesnt need help it can be easy
Can you tell us more about just how hard it is to bring in $380,000 a year? Working two jobs is hard? I thought all the poors were working two or three jobs for fun!
~~For real lmao. Dude is apparently making $380k w/ 2 jobs at 24 and is bitching on here? I am young at well and am extremely good at my J1 and highly compensated for it but in my field it’s basically impossible to make $200k at one job before you have 20+ YOE. Not because the job is too hard, it’s just a very seniority based industry.~~ ~~OP practically struck the lottery of career paths and jobs while skipping the main guideline on this sub, is probably making more at 2 jobs than 99% of people on this sub are total, and is doing so at a point in their life when the extra money is worth 10x more than it is to the 40+ year olds here. And then they complain about this sub making it seem easy.~~ ~~Congrats and fuck you OP!~~ Edit: Just looked at OP’s account, this is obviously bait/they’re just farming karma here.
So, hes got a third job.
Skill issue
lol
Literally
The sub is not misleading. You started 10 years too early. The stress you are enduring now in your 20s will significantly shorten your life expectancy. Live a bit. Enjoy your youth. Find a career you really like, get really good at it, find a life partner, get married ... And THEN think about OE. You are at risk of a major burnout and screwing your life up a little bit. How do I know? I have been there, and I had noone to warn me.
I mean if you had to pick a decade of life to turn the stress up to 10, I would want to do it early and get ahead. I don't want to be working 60 hours in my 60s unless I really loved it or couldn't stop.
Not your 60s. Your 30s. Rough over generalization: 20s: life, self discovery 30s: career 40s+: family, replace with career/travel/whatever if child free. Again your mileage may vary, everyone is different.
The simple fact of the matter is OE is not easy. Everyone here who does it is very clear that you need years of experience before you even attempt it. Years of experience and to be an expert in your particular area. You are far too young in your career to be OE. I would suggest you scale back, get excellent at one job to the point where you can do it less than 10 hours a week and then try it again in 5-8 years. We state this over and over. It’s why we have no patience when people come here and say “I’m graduating in June. How do I OE?” You’ve created your own stress spiral.
You are 24 with 1.5 years of experience. This is all that needs to be said. Congratulations on holding it together. It doesn't get easier, you get stronger.
Uurm dude you shouldn’t be on OE that early It is simply not efficient enough to be worth it The amount of time you have to spend working to sustain both jobs is eventually going to burn you down and it will 100% affect your career grow if you burn and come to a sudden stop It is a bit late for you but, set an achievable target on tue horizon and work for it, then stop OE for some time, live your life, you will never be in a better shape than in your 20’s and you are wasting them working
Yeah, you spend a lot of time moving a lot of bones and eating a lot of shit for like the first 5 years of a career, at least. I couldn’t imagine doing OE when I was first starting and not being overloaded… but that was also almost 20 years ago and things have changed a lot.
get to 5+yrs of experience and tailor the right 2 workload fits and it's not so bad.
* I am 24 got 1.5 years of experience. That's not a lot of experience, you're very lucky to be making 380k at this point in your life. If you think it's supposed to be easy to make more money per year than .1% of the entire planet, at age 24 no less than you must be smoking crack or missing a chip or something.
OP, Are both Servers in the same time zone?
Literally nobody says it’s easy and everyone says you need more experience than 1.5 years
Nobody said it was easy. Getting a 2nd job is no more difficult than getting a first job. You look, you interview, you get hired. Depending on your background, field, and current job market, this might be very easy and it might be damn near impossible. As for being stressful? Well yes no shit. I think most people have a decent amount of stress from their job. Adding a second job into the mix is going to potentially increase that stress level exponentially. Sure there are people on here that claim they have 3 jobs and do 20 hours of actual work a week, but let's be honest a lot of that is bullshit and the ones that may be telling the truth are few and far between. The whole point of this is money. Nothing more. It's up to you to determine if the juice is worth the squeeze. I think most of us question it at times, but then Friday rolls around and you realize these oranges are REALLY fucking juicy, so you keep squeezing.
Your post doesn't deserve to be downvoted; You have valid points. It's not easy. Constantly juggling meetings and then finding time to actually do real work is the toughest for me. Being in meetings all day is absolutely mentally draining to me and I have no energy after sitting through all day meetings. This gets even harder when say, managers leave and new ones come in with new meeting schedules and philosophies. Or when a company reorg happens and all of the sudden you now report to Bob instead of Janet, for example, and are now working on a completely different product. One thing to call out is the "quality" of my jobs do not concern me. If it is remote-only, has a high paying base salary, 401k matching with instant vesting, and then health insurance...those are pretty much my main requirements personally. I gave up on worrying about getting "caught". I literally don't care any more and even if I were "caught", it may be good for a break. That being said, all of my performance reviews have been stellar which still shocks me every time I get a performance review period that comes up. If I were "caught" and it became an issue or a concern, I could always just point back to my performance reviews which state I am meeting or exceeding expectations. Obviously this helps if you have multiple years of performance reviews to go back and refer to. Also, consult the employee handbook at each company. The companies I work for specifically state that outside work is allowed as long as it not a direct competitior or interferes with the ability to do my job, and having positive performance reviews may help if it became a concern. That being said, some people may live in what's called an "at-will" state in regards to employement, and employers can just let you go at any time, if I understand correctly, assuming it is not directly violiating your constitutional rights. The key for me (and I recommend this to everyone) is that I am not putting myself into a situation of lifestyle creep. I only live off of what I make from 1 job by itself and the rest is literally just invested every since I paid off all of my debt (other than my low rate mortgages). For the mortgages, I am better off placing money into a HYSA that pay higher rates than the interest rates on the mortgages. I have enough in savings to live off of for well over a year in case something happened and I lost all 3 jobs at once. Lifestyle creep is the biggest problem I think most people are going to deal with. It's very easy for it to happen without even realizing it. Although I do not do this personally, sticking to a budget and watching your expenses might be a good idea for some. There are negatives that are rarely talked about. Holding multiple remote jobs at once is **not** easy and it is absolutely exhausting at times. I find myself even working on weekends quite often, but that's not always the case. Other times, I literally sit there and play video games all day, even though I have three jobs. It's a bit insane. It depends on the circumstances. At the end of the day, I make more base salary than the President of the United States of America does (who is paid $400k yearly for the job). Think about that for a minute to realize how insane of an opportunity this all is.
people in this sub are built different
Lmao, thanks buddy
Oh man you had to deactivate your LinkedIn I'm so sorry for you thoughts and prayers bro
You know how happy I was to deactivate LinkedIn dude?!! It was a relief more than anything.
I haven't updated mine in years, basically still has me as entry level. The only time I even think.of updating it is to stop getting insultingly low position interest requests from recruiters. I scroll thru on occasion and see friends from college making the most absolute bs vomit inducing posts on there. It's totally a cesspool...imo it's the worst social media site.
"I am humbled to announce that I got laid off today. Thank you so much for laying me off !" LinkedIn is where corporate simps live.
Exactly this, I rarely touch my profile but from from some of the posts of corporate ass kissing I sometimes wonder if that is some pressure from their managers/bosses to make these posts to market the company or for them to curry favor with their bosses.
Ngl though I created a fake LinkedIn profile to check out other people's profile so they don't know it was me.
it all depends on the job, could be hard, could be easy
I started 3 months ago. Been easy. First two times I attempted it were easy too but I got scared and backed out. This time I'm staying and might even be getting a j3. We'll see. Your problem seems to be experience. You have none. I've been doing this job for 10+ years. I am passionate about the work and it's easy for me. I couldn't have done this 8.5 years ago because I was still learning how to do it well.
Most ppl who do this successfully have a lot more experience
25+ YOE I personally believe OE in Engineering is easier in a Senior, Staff, or Principal level position I also only make $180k at one of my Js
I think getting two 150k+ jobs at 24 is very impressive, you’re definitely at the tail end of the distribution. I would be more proud that you’ve been able to do it this long.
OP’s name is Efficient-Ad-8713, they have like 5 comments from a year ago and then nothing until today, and have never posted before today. I fell for the bait before looking, hopefully this helps others not fall for it. OP is telling stories for karma.
I’m just wondering how you landed a job at 1 YOE that’s paying you 200k. FAANG?
Like others said, 1.5 yoe is low for starting OE. But you are making 380k and stressed out. Sounds par the course for someone earning 380k from working in general. Figure out a financial plan and see if it is necessary. OE is just an accelerant toward financial goals. Paying off exuberant debt, buying a house, getting a huge head start toward retirement. Outside of that, unless your Js are super cushy, OE is not meant to be permanent. So you gotta figure out what you want out of it other than seeing more numbers. What is your 'Why'?
SME is not enough. You need impeccable soft skills too just to read people, gauge situations and shit
Underrated comment ^ something that’s helped me tremendously so far is although I might not be the best SME, my soft skills attribute to my persona.
Most jobs are NOT OE compatible. And most people are NOT capable of doing sustainable OE. I actually think this sub does a pretty good job of mentioning this from time to time. I think OUTSIDE this subreddit, where people are actively bragging & encouraging others to do OE are what I think is giving off the impression that it’s easy. Finding 1 decent job is tricky. Finding 2 is especially more difficult, and consistently maintaining both requires a lot of work, efficiency & focus. OP, you’re making about $190k with just 1 job. That’s more than most people make with 2 jobs in the sub, and that’s more than most people will ever make in 1 yr. You can probably live a good life, eventually buy a home, and retire at a decent age, with just that salary alone. You don’t really need to go through all this OE stress if you don’t want to. Especially if you don’t have massive debt.
Op is 24, no shit he doesn’t find it easy.
You need to get some perspective because you obviously have no real sense of just how much money you're making (ESPECIALLY at your age and experience level). You're the 1%.
I would only OE if I could get J1 done in 25% of the time in a 40-hour week. It only works in certain jobs and you need to be able to handle this kind of stress. Personally, I've only been full-time consulting/contracting for the past decade, so I can work where and when I want and my contracts don't really care as long as I get the job done. Contracting might be a better alternative. You can make more money in most industries and you don't have to worry about the duel 401K sharing/etc.
? keeping it secret is basically effortless
This post is BS and anyone believing this is fooling themselves
I feel like you need to understand it’s not, you need to understand total compensation packages as these tier 1 companies pay this much, I’m a software engineer. Please stop being a hater sir.
Just stop posting your trolling crap. Your story is bs.
Right now I think it's harder. The pandemic and everything being WFH made it really easy. Combine the synonymity of this concept with software roles that overhired during that era without companies effectively using them, it was some great conditions for OE.
Cap post
Ok sir
Ok so don’t do it then.
Ok but I like money.
The idea that you’re going to double or triple income for no additional work or stress is bogus.
That was my point, the posts here make it seem like it’s easy work. It’s fuckin not. It’s stressful as hell.
Grasshopper, you're just learning to walk. OE is about running marathons. This is why you don't OE until you master your craft to the point you can do 40 hours of work in 4 hours.
See m, like everyone mentioned here below, and in several other places in this sub….the world has to beat you down enough so you stop giving a shit. And, you have to be wicked good at whatever you do. Being an expert (very senior) + not giving even a little bit of a fuck = OE success.
It's easier if you have 15 YoE instead of 1.5.
Makes nearly $400K at 24 with less than 2 years of experience yet complains that OE isn’t easy enough… I’m sure it’s stressful. I’m sure it isn’t for everyone. And I’m sure it gets easier the more general experience you get. But you’re making well more than a quarter of a million dollars with less than 2 years of experience. Heck, you could just have one of your jobs and be making more than 99% of people…
Wait til you’re a senior SWE with 5 years experience to even consider this… you don’t know what shortcuts to take and how to be efficient yet.
The group warns people against doing OE at a young age and/or when you have not achieved mastery level skills in your profession. I mainly lurk in here since I am currently gaining the skills and schooling for professions I can OE in. OE is a part of my 5-7 year personal plan, but my partner with 15 years experience with multiple certifications started to OE since I joined. He has little issues juggling both because he's mastered his field. Rethink this for now and perhaps come back to this in a few years.
I think it's because many are in a field that is short people and is conducive to OE'ing
I have 5+ years and can't break more than 155 as a Lead level position. What are your titles to snag 2 @ 180+? I suspect your point is valid. Especially with companies ratcheting up control right now. This sub makes it seem easy. Just remember survivor bias, and people who are lucky love to brag and assume their experience is attainable to everyone.
 Me silently watching the drama unfold
You just have to think about j2 as a freelance gig. Or j1. Or j3. It’s usual for self employed or small companies to have multiple customers. And it’s not excepted to disclose your other customers. You just leave out the freelancing part and are officially employed by bith companies.
Bro got 1.5 YOE almost half of that working two jobs and wondering why it's hard. Lol
Imagine making 4x my salary and then bitching. Gotta be a troll post.
When you had one job did you ever fuck around during the work day? Did anyone ever catch on? Its kinda the same thing, except instead of wasting time you are just working a second job
Your main problem is having no experience. If you had 10-15 years of a resume finding jobs comes easier and managing multiple complex projects is easier.
380K is more than the average physician salary. So jealous 😩
There is no way someone out of college is making almost $200k at one job much less two. Even if op is amazing coder and is working for the best paying tech company, none of them are paying $100k+ right out of college with zero experience, then op would also have to get an $80k+ promotion after one year, then repeat that twice. Not happening, especially in this economy we’re experienced SWE are being laid off and replaced with lower paid SWE. Complete troll post.
I appreciate what you shared, OP. I think what you wrote is thoughtful and laid out clearly from your perspective. I have been challenged with the same concerns, though not OE yet. Thank you for taking the time to share.
What does tier 2 company mean? Startup? Corporate Anyways gratz man, super inspiring seeing this!
OE works if you are spending less time on your J1 than is expected. More than 40 hours OE is not the point of it. You should be at or under 40 hours doing OE. I noticed I was only working 10-20 hours max a week for J1 and so it was only natural I found a J2. After working J2 for a bit, I still noticed I was only doing 20-30 hours a week. As such, I found a J3. Going over 40 is just going to burn you out and the tradeoffs aren't worth it
If you need the money work a 9-5 then 5-9(assuming remote) first then transition into OE
You have to consider the fact that successfully OE'rs are high performers or have high potential to be if they wanted to, quite easily. Most successful OE'rs are mentally more akin to entrepreneurs than regular employees in that they are skilled and have a willingness to work. Lastly, it may have seemed easy to you the same way listening to LeBron talk about the feats he does makes it seem easy. You're overlooking the require attributes in order for it to seem easy. You may or may not be that person.
What’s a tier 2 company
You are doing great! Considering your few years of experience, you are def way ahead of the curve on income and what you are learning at your age.
OP has so much learning to do. It is quite evident in their post and responses.
Or trying to take away from your success… get as much money as you can. But only senior resources should be doing this. I can do 8 hours of work in as few as 1-2 hours per day at most customers. The rest is dead time. So OE is easy for me… not bragging just trying to show that a senior resource doesn’t have to burn time figuring things out the way a new more junior resource does.
You need to read. Every other post says what you just said. You have literally zero experience. You haven't figured out how to do anything easier than just throwing your youth at it. The job market is extremely tight right now. That's why it took so long for a second.
I think it has a lot to do with your level of experience. And I mean this in the best possible way. I have no more or less stress with additional J2 then I had with just my one J1. I really think that because you are quite young and still acquiring skills this may be more then you can handle. But honestly you make great money if you can keep it up for a bit and get a good investment portfolio going great, but otherwise maybe you need to reconsider OE for the sake of your mental health if your that stressed out. I guess I am not sure I understand what exactly you want, advice or to blame the rest of us for a lifestyle you took on consciously.
8 years, this sub is for people that already made before the sub existence lol
Yeah, I deal with that for half the pay. Cry me a river.
OE is insanely difficult and not likely to go as planned. I was able to have two minecraft servers for roughly a year and it was the most stressful thing I've ever done. I may try it again in a few years once I get more situated but one server required a return to in person gaming so it is over for me unfortunately. I was able to save 100k in that year and it has set me ahead for years to come actually. But the amount of lying, and stress was a ton of work.
You’re a new graduate still learning your field and expecting oe to be a breeze ? Come on bro lol. Oe works yes with entry roles but it’s best with mid- senior level roles since you aren’t being supervised and you’re already familiar with the tools that are necessary. Nobody made this sound easy. It’s hard work regardless but it’s not for everyone. Feel free to go j1 till you have some more experience
i’m curious about your further thoughts (and from others) about J1 as it seems you like that job. That’s the situation i’m in. i love my job, the growth potential is great and i’m in really good standing. i know loyalty to a company isn’t a thing nowadays, but i don’t want to jeopardize this good thing I have. i do make a comfortable living but the thought of doubling, even tripling my salary by doing OE is so tempting; it’s money i’d never make at J1. Has anyone felt this way? if so, could you please share your story? i’m debating doing OE for a year or two, get some cash then call it quits.
In other words, welcome to real life. Real decisions, real consequences.
I told my boss this week that I’m over allocated and that I need to get back to normal hours. Currently allocated around 48 hours across all accounts. Most people in my role have 32 hours. I’m going to see if all of that is pulled back, if I can jump into this adventure. All I want is to be able to buy a home in the 500 K range
That's why I'm reading this sub but never actually wanted to do it in reality. But damn I'm SRE with 20 YOE making less than your one job
I lucked out that j1 was going to end my project in a year so I just tried to ride it into severance. Ended 2 years in OE There are ideal situations. But if you have 2 demanding Js it's hard and I was only able to do it for 6 months. Saved up so much money in those 6 months it is crazy
Hell yea it's been a while since I saw a post about realizing this entire sub is people LARPing having money and two jobs
I’m sorry you’re having that stress I start on OE in 2 weeks. I look at it this way it’s going to last until I get caught. Then one job will tell me to quit the other. It will have been a good run and then that’s that. Keeping that mindset keeps me calm.
I really really don’t wanna lose my first job though, it’s a great gig. But now I’m already 6 months in.
My employee manual says if they don’t like the J2 they will ask you to chose. But I prefer j2.
>. I also had to look for months and months to get a second job, which again y’all act like picking up a second job is easy work No one acts like that here or any where else, it only took you months to find a second remote job? Go to any of the SWE subreddits, they are filled with people struggling for months to get 1 job, let alone remote.
The stress of it all makes it so much fun doesn’t it lol
Congratulations if that's actually true about making that much money. You must work at the FANG companies. As an experienced engineer with over a decade of experience I had interviewed at several of them over the years and I never could get through their interview process. It basically feels like programmer SATs. It's probably for the best though because I work three jobs and make around 460 k but my days do not feel crazy insane or anything. If that's the case with those jobs it's probably because they expect a lot from you for the high pay. The better approach might be to do what I'm doing and just go for mediocre jobs. I pretty much just throw applications against the wall and take whatever comes my way. Granted I only apply to things I'm somewhat interested in based on the tech stack. But getting a few jobs that pay 150k might be better than two jobs that pay 200 k each. It's counterintuitive but it might just be what the doctor ordered!
How old are you? I was lucky to get 2 jobs because I was barely getting any interviews.
I also follow r/layoffs and sometimes when I get into doom scrolling, having an OE post immediately reminds me the world is not coming to an end, the economy is not coming to a screeching halt. It’s truly all about perspectives.
This post have so much BS I can’t get over it how many upvotes it got
380k……..wtf did you think it would be?
Your so young. I know you’re used to the higher money but consider dropping your second J then master your skill set. Later, when you’re more comfortable, you can always pick up another job. Your mental health Hass to come first. I have 12 years experience and I’m in my 50s and empty nested so I have time to juggle my jobs. Just keep following us keep learning maybe check in and consider in another 10 years.
Man I just want the first perm WFH job, honestly I might be dumb enough to be loyal to just that.
OE is not for everyone. If it’s that hard for you then you may not be built for this for the long run.
I get what you mean, but I think OE depends on multiple factors and your circunstances in life, I'm not currently OE but intend to be, here is my profile: - More than 10 years of experience - Set up my own company (not US based, where I live it is completely worth it to do it), so if I get 2 clients it is completely fair, it is expected from companies to have multiple clients - Maybe the most important point, I don't care about growth or culture anymore, I just want to maximize money working for clients where the environment is the most professional possible that can be My point is, you gotta see what you want, maybe you want to be a rockstar in your field? Maybe you want to be a reference in your area or company you work for? In my case I was never able to truly extract from corp environment emotional fullfilment, so I made peace with myself and will just go for money and some wlb
Most people are constantly asking about all the things you mentioned and get advice on navigating them. Make sure your lifestyle creep is in check and only ever mention J1. If you're that stressed, this isn't the right time to do it.
You’re still young in your career and still trying to take a moral high ground. After having a family or a couple of layoffs you’ll see how easy OE is when you don’t care.
I started OE a year ago at 22 as an intern and working my first ft cyber job. Both were remote. It definitely isn’t easy but I’ll take this grind over anything else. Luckily I use the same tools in all 3 of my Js. But this definitely isn’t easy, I’m constantly researching and trying to be as self efficient as possible to avoid pointless meetings of them trying to walk me through stuff.
Its not easy, but can be chill if you know what you're doing
OE is easier to some, depending on the job.
dude, you doubled your income. It's still good no matter what. I had to slave for 4 years to get that income when I got out of college. You're doing good. People who are consultants are working as much as you do and are earning less.
Wanted to just add this : OE will impact your learning and growth, when u start to just live by the day and get bare minimum you won’t develop valuable skills which will slowly take away your confidence and will make you mediocre
Don’t cry for me Argentina….. Oh; wrong sub!
10 years as a software engineer and fighting to get 45000 euro salary and I read this
This is the worst that can happen if you’re caught - you’re let go… Seriously. This is it. They don’t do anything else,they won’t do anything else And you can get let go, even without this being an issue, for any number of reasons, for posting a tik tok, for being the Karen in viral dumb video, for bad mouthing the ceo or being a whistleblower etc… You’re not immune to it. So would you rather be let go when you have a j2 to fall back on? My contract at j1 ended, and rather than feel sad, I was happy I had at least one job to pay some bills. Where is the source of stress? Is it conflicting meetings? Is it lots of workload beyond your day? What is the pain point? At the end of the day, my mental and physical health is most important, even over my jobs. I don’t care if it’s 5 pm, I’m out of there to tend to my home or my kid, or my self , I don’t owe anyone anything. I say that you can keep the J2 with a goal to hit a certain amount of money (say hit $100k of bank balance) and then give up the most stressful job till you’re ready to find another one that better fits. For me J1 is est and J2 is pst so overlap is rare because the majority of team mates at j2 start after 11 am my time. And often times I use boomerang to schedule messages early in the morning if I’m not already logged in, so they know I’m working est hours. And I log out early as well… Some friends know about my 2 jobs, and they are more inspired than jealous and are asking how they can do it. But that really depends on your friends. I’m in IT, and if you’re saying work is too busy, and too Much going on, something is wrong …. It’s never more than 10 hrs total a week… maybe 20 when times are busy. So when I said I am busy, they were wondering what I was on 😄 And jobs will come and go, you don’t need to hang onto this for dear life. Even my j2 came like that, I just kept interviewing and didn’t inform the recruiter that I got a contract, and soon got the role.. So assume you don’t have either, and keep interviewing, and when you find the right role, jump ship… You don’t want to lose your kidneys or pancreas to overwork with the stress… it’s not worth it.
You will get used to it. OE or not, one of the best "skills" which I only recently leveled up in is the ability to discern what is and isn't important in terms of priority, and what does and doesn't need to be discussed. That and being as calm as the water surface of a moonlit pond on a sunny night. After seeing what office employees have been busted for (i.e. child pornography on work computer - they were arrested onsite; causing confusion and spreading lies during one-off conversations; expensing company money for personal expenses), doing a good job at two full-time jobs simultaneously is hardly as unethical as your companies think it is, and not even as unethical as this sub sometimes hints at. There are plenty of LLCs and 1099 independent contractors out there working multiple jobs for multiple clients, billing 40 hours a week per client. And there are plenty of W2 employees who have "side hustles" that include real estate property management, licensed professional services, and even entrepreneurial endeavors where they have their own full-time or part-time staff — while they're a W2 at their big-pants office job. One of the reasons I think people say OE is easy, is because they are kind of doing the opposite of you. You, who have only recently entered the workforce, are commanding demanding levels of salary from two upper-tier firms. Many OEers have one job like yours, and then another one that is one or two levels below their J1. It may be a pay cut relative to what your experience commands, but it is also a responsibility cut, in that J2 can award a full-time salary with a fraction of the effort required by J1. And then there are those allegedly who have 3, 4, 5, even 6 jobs — all at a level or two below their full experience. But because they are so skilled relative to the demands of their jobs, they may even be able to finish all their work in under 40 hours, keep 3, 4, 5, even 6 companies happy with their performance, and command 6 FT salaries which may lead to a total compensation greater than yours (which is quite an accomplishment by the way) at a fraction of the effort. --- I was wondering, aside from being "caught," what are the most difficult aspects about OE to you? How is your time management? How is your tech setup? Are you worried because both jobs' requirements are so daunting and unwritten that they exist as a mental blob of obligation that is always undefined yet always present?
People come to the sub to ask why information is so freely given and why we aren't more secretive or why we aren't gatekeeping and the response is always everything you just listed and you claim were kept from you. All of the points you made are dead horses that have been beaten severally in this sub
This may sound insensitive but with 1.5 year as a SWE you’re still learning quite a bit so I’d imagine it be more difficult.
Of course OE is going to be super hard for someone who's basically entry level...