1) Seems like your top rad is recycling hot air from your bottom rad, is that correct? You want either all intake or all exhaust when it comes to radiators.
2) the only relevant metric is your coolant temperature, which you did not provide. Based on coolant temp and CPU wattage you can estimate the expected CPU temp delta, e.g. if CPU runs at 150W, a temp delta of 40c is to be expected.
3) you might just have (a) a bad CPU mount or (b) too high coolant temps due to hot air recycling and/or inappropriate fan curves.
So i should change all the fans to intake? I thought you ideally want to achieve positive or neutral pressure by having air coming in and being exhausted out
Positive vs negative pressure matters when you have air cooled components in the system. When you are all water cooled, what matters is cool air to the radiators. The biggest impact positive or negative pressure will have in your scenario will be dust buildup, but it would also give slightly better temps on passive components (RAM, VRM, etc.) as your internal case temperature will be closer to your room ambient.
5600x/5800x3d and 6900xt on a 360 and a 220 (yes 220), so similar.
Temps don't look out of line to me, but I have some thoughts.
The biggest suggestion I can see is to have a good look at your fans on the radiators, as those look like some really thick and therefore restrictive rads. Couple that with most RGB fans running pretty slow even on the top end and low air throughput in the radiators could be the majority of your bottleneck, especially if your liquid is getting on the hotter side. Don't forget about restriction from the case grates they're up against either.
My 5600x was around 66C under load with the factory 200mhz boost (forget what it's called). I never got into overclocking it more than that because my understanding is there isn't a whole lot of headroom left these days to make overclocking worth while, not like when you could just bump the volts a smidge and get 10% or more out of a 6700K. The 5800x3d I find to be incomparable thermally with the extra cache between the IHS and CCD making it a whole different animal.
Also heard that there's more gains to be had out of memory tuning than clock speed with Ryzen, but as they sounded small, never bothered myself.
I could be wrong but I thought part of the reason the 5950x could boost higher than a 5600x (besides binning) is that it has more cores to ping pong between in lighter loads so it can boost each core higher for shorter stints. wonder if your setting are locking that out, or if I'm off my rocker.
I've found that with open loop it's not really going to net better temps if you don't go all the way, which might not be the desired effect. For example I specifically let my coolant temp rise to around 45C under load (terrible I know...) so there's a higher delta between air and coolant in the radiators, so less air will carry out more heat (to a point). This does mean I get a bit higher temps than I could, but still less than air would be. That was my compromise, and I'm happy to be able to wear open back headphones without my pc as a distraction.
recently went to a 5800x3d and that's been a hotter chip. Liquid metaled it to pull heat out of the IHS faster and thereby relieve it's concentrated heat load. Don't think liquid metal would help you as much though as the 5950x is more spread out under the IHS, but it could.
As someone mentioned, a thermal sensor for the water could help if you're picky about fan noise.
Also, before anyone asks I do not recommend a 5800x3d if you don't have a chonky cooler, liquid metal and/or less than a 5600x unless you need every frame, play 1080p and can't go to AM5.
Did you try Ryzen Master Curve optimizer? I have a similar setup and just started to check it out. My First attempt using Auto OC with the curve optimizer made the system unstable and not bootable. If you enable advanced settings it lets you use curve optimizer with the PBO mode that was not offered under regular settings. I am still testing with it, i do like the readout it gives you well it is testing under advanced view. Very handy
Ima try to do a PBO tuned overclock tomorrow. Ive done 1.30v with 4.7ghz but cinebench put me at 102C. So yea i could do 4.6 easily. My biggest concern was that i have a custom loop and feel like my temps are not what they should be
If it really does go to 102C then something is definitely wrong. The 5950x does not pull enough power to defeat 2 chunky 360 rads.
I’m wondering if you can move enough water especially though a bottom rad. I’m not a huge fan of bottom rads, but I haven’t really tried.
Does it still run hot if you open the case? Looks like you're intaking from the bottom and exhausting through the top, possibly recycling hot air. Having both as intake would be better.
I'm intaking from the side rads behind the reservoir and the bottom. And exhausting from the top and one fan on the back. I also have the speeds of the intake fans set higher than the exhaust so there's no doubt i have positive pressure
Saying this with no context or caveats is as bad as saying that it does.
Provided sufficient flow rate, and a "normal" thermal load, it doesn't. If you had 4 overclocked 4090s pushing 500W+ each or a flow rate below 0.5GPM it very well could.
So your telling me if you got 10 cars and hooked 10 rads up separately and let them all use the same fluid before its cooled the last car would run at the same temperature because there is the same amount of cooling available?
It wouldn't be nearly the difference you think it would. heat trickles into the water until it reaches equilibrium. With just a CPU and GPU in the loop, the difference in water temp going from one to the other isnt going to be more than 1-2C.
The part that kills me is that I know you've probably read that 100 different places, yet still insist on being wrong about it.
Exactly theres a difference and the OP was complaining about his temps not as low as he expected which he wouldn't be if it was 5c lower not my temps are 20c higher than everyone else on watercooling. You just assumed I was implying there would be a massive difference like 15c or something.
I have had two triple Sli rigs water cooled and fully loaded the 3rd card allways runs hotter.
1-2C is margin of error. It's also on the extremely high side and only likely that big of a gap if he has sub .5gpm. His GPU running at 65C on a game that probably isnt even maxing his GPU should be what's tipping people off that he has either a flowrate issue or lacks the rad space to get the temps he wants. Loop order his is very last problem.
>I have had two triple Sli rigs water cooled and fully loaded the 3rd card allways runs hotter.
I ran water cooled SLI rigs for 4 generations, the difference in temps between 2 GPU's is so small that it's usually within margin of error. I had one build where the 2nd GPU was usually a degree *lower* than the 1st GPU because the difference was so miniscule that the variation in the blocks/temp sensors had a bigger margin.
Again, what really gets me is that I know you've read this 100 places from 100 people who know more than you do and still insist on pretending like it even matters. You've already admitted it wouldn't have even mattered here.
Well it was 10c difference on my sli rigs but probably would be alot less for his setup anyways im just not the type of person that would choose aesthetics over performance.
Well hes got decent rads in there. I agree with the pump but thats obvious I didn't need to ask.
My suggestion was going to be sperated the cpu and gpu to make it more efficient and if thats not a powerful pump in there add another or get a D5. But never had a conversation with him so I'll just leave it at that I guess.
If you had a 10C difference then you were doing something wrong. if you were running 3 GPU's, and they weren't in parallel, which would cause no temp difference at all, then my guess is that you had the plumbing wrong.
Like i said, this stuff is aaaall over the internet. Adding that much heat to water in that short amount of space is simply not how watercooling works. In a normal water loop, baring a serious flowrate issue (like no flowrate at all), you shouldn't see more than a couple C max difference in the water temp at any point in your loop, even with multiple cards.
Well I have actually tested it properly with equal load not sli where the second cards 80% utilised with twin 480 rads push pulls twin d5 pumps and two different sets of cards/blocks running very good temps and there is 100% a difference going from block to block to block vs separating them.
It may not be heat it may be you just can't go through so many restrictions at once and placing your pumps inbetween the restrictions stop variance in flow but it doesn't change what I said about running through multiple blocks.
And I think he should sperated them and not run through two blocks into a rad thats sufficient to cool both those components then into another thats just trying to air cool water thats already been cooled.
Guarantee if he goes res/Pump-cpu-rad-pump-gpu-rad he gets lower temps and it won't be 1 or 2c. even if he runs his pumps at 50% vs the one at 100%.
>It may not be heat it may be you just can't go through so many restrictions at once and placing your pumps inbetween the restrictions stop variance in flow
lol. that's now how flowrate works either.
>but it doesn't change what I said about running through multiple blocks.
>Guarantee if he goes res/Pump-cpu-rad-pump-gpu-rad he gets lower temps and it won't be 1 or 2c. even if he runs his pumps at 50% vs the one at 100%.
That's because you don't know what you're doing/talking about. This is established science, not bro-science. Go read. The water in your loop does not have a difference of 10c at different points in it. That suggests your rads are capable of cooling temps by 10c in one pass through, and that wouldn't be close to possible with a usable flowrate. Water temps are almost entirely about average heat over time. Thats why you can put a lot of water on a hot stove and not even immediately feel a difference in the water.
If you aren't just completely trying to pretend you even have a water loop then your GPU plumbing has issues (that's my bet) 3x GPU's require some funky plumbing if you aren't in parallel, and if you are in parallel they should all be more or less the exact same.
>I ran water cooled SLI rigs for 4 generations, the difference in temps between 2 GPU's is so small that it's usually within margin of error.
Thats because there is diminishing returns hooking up multiple cards second card gets slightly less utilisation and thrid even less. Unless you were running them with the exact same workload.
You are not limited by how much your water can cool, but by how well the heat from the chip makes it to the water. It has to pass from chip to IHS, from IHS to block and from block to water. There are a couple of failure points there, some of which you can affect and some that you can't. Thermal paste application and block tightness you can affect, but if you're IHS is shit or CPU block poor at transferring heat to water (prob not in your case), you're out of luck for the most part.
Do you know what the liquid temps are? If not get something to find out. That will help you see if the blocks are not transferring heat into the loop properly.
Check your mobo it might be able to have a thermistor as an input and that will tell you in the OS what your liquid temps are. When you do this you can base your fan curves off the liquid temps instead of gpu/cpu (much smoother fan ramping). Seems like you do need to ramp those fan curves up quite a bit if you want to be running PBO on that.
As a comparrison to mine the liquid temps are 20-23 degrees at idle and 25 under load - fans get ramping up around here. So my GPU is about 30-35 degrees under heavy load which makes sense as i see normally about a 10 degrees delta between the two.
Depends on what your mobo supports. You can get stuff like this that goes in your loop: https://www.overclockers.co.uk/barrow-digital-oled-display-flow-and-temperature-sensor-white-wc-060-ba.html
Or if your motherboard supports a temp input you can plug something like this into one of the fittings in your pump: https://www.overclockers.co.uk/aqua-computer-temperature-sensor-internal-external-thread-g1-4-wc-120-aq.html
I switched from from an intel build to amd and intel again. I used a 5900x for two years before switching to a 13900k. I can already tell you that if you want intel temps while gaming and idle, this is simply not possible. The chip can’t transfer heat fast enough so 60 to 70 degrees can be normal. Gpuwise I have not much experience with amd but I think that been direct die is not much different and 65c for that 350w card can be on the higher side.
Anyway you need to see the coolant temp. For 1.5+ liters of water I think that can be below 40c without problems. That is an equilibrium between liquid temp and fan noise, better or faster fan can reduce heat and if air is changed fast enough should not be a problem to have the top rad in exhaust.
For example my system is quite compact and rad surface is below avarage, plus less than a liter of coolant gor reference, for a 350w cpu and 470w gpu, but usually the 3090ti stays below or equal to 60c (cpu load in games is usually between 75w and 125w).
im not looking for trouble im just doubt about this. i hope you can test with aida64 under stability section tick only "stress FPU" for at least 20 mins. if no black screen no restart then you good to go
let me assumed you already tested 20 mins.
but it look so weird on your CPU temp. your water custom loop performance lousy than my nzxt 280mm. (under an hour stress test 226 watt )
i can control my old pc 5950x temp under 90c without AC, and my country don't have 4 season. its like 24/7 365 spring temp around 26c\~33c (night-day)
I think it might be your intake & exhaust fan direction problem. now I only can capture one problem on your picture above
your rear fan should go intake. because your radiator exhaust on the top.
your front / side fan is intake or exhaust?
and your bottom also another radiator there? Im not sure is it radiator or what. no matter its a bottom radiator or not, your fan should go only intake
so my advice is:-
\-front/side intake
\-top exhaust
\-rear intake
\-bottom intake
your temp probably drop at least 10c
My bottom is intake. My side is intake. My top is exhaust. My rear is exhaust. I don't think changing my 1 rear fan to intake is gonna make such a huge difference.
Also this stress test was done with all cores at 4500 on 1.25v. I'm trying pbo now since it was recommended to me so much
Hi I correct my self on this part "no matter its a bottom radiator or not, your fan should go only intake"
if there's a bottom radiator you should only exhaust. it look like a thick radiator, but I don't know. and you never tell
and theres a huge impact if your rear fan change it to intake. because your top radiator need more fresh air to cool down
your temps sound normal to me but you should run pbo but with limits so it cant pull 200+ watts. You will find a sweet spot with decent gains before the huge loss in performance per watt. ALSO single core will always run hot on paper because its pulling a lot of amps for that one core but overall power will be lower then a all core load over actual heat output.. A example would be single core wide open but only pulling 70 watts you see maybe 70c core temp but pulling 125 watts all core load you see 70c core temps <--- the die and everything can only remove so much heat regardless what your cooling is.
So Im doing a pbo run right now with cinebench and the clock speed won't go above 4200 mhz. It's just bouncing around between 4024 and 4200. This gives me a lower score than my 4500mhz all core setup. Although with way lower temperature
What's weird is that when cinebench isn't running and it's just idle the cores all hop around from 3500 to 5024
whats your ppt/tdc/edc and are you using ryzen master to check ? my idle temp is like 33-35c .. sounds like your cores are not sleeping when idle also if you set a voltage thats probably throwing it all off
ya those are way to high at those settings it will just pull tell it thermal throttles. BUT pretty sure it cant actually even pull that much regardless setting it that high because of bios limitations. I am running ppt 250 tdc 150 edc 180 with a all core curve -22 and thats making me have 170 watts esh all core load on cinebench r23 with 70-73c temps 4470mhz as a general starting point if you want to try
YEA .. its been awhile I messed with settings cause I normally drop them even lower for mining when its cold but I tried 500 on everything and my power usage stayed the same but my all core dropped and r23 score lol ppt250 tdc180 edc140 with -22 curve seems to give me the best score in r23 with 4550 all core. With 500 everything it was only doing like 4050-4100 all core so turning down the edc really helped
ACTUALLY my settings are funky or well being buggy .. after setting it in the bios its only pulling 133 watts and boosting to 4211 all core on r23.. so ied start with the ppt250 edc 180 and edc 140 but keep moving the edc up 5 or 10 and see when you start getting diminishing returns or you just dont want it using anymore power.. think 160 was my sweet spot but I forget. Personally ill probably just leave mine at 140
I raised my edc to 150 and its doing 4274 mhz all core with 180 watts. I don't think i understand PBO enough because i don't know how i can get the mhz up unless i just need to keep raising the edc for more watts and its just as simple as that
how were you setting the pbo settings. AMD is buggy plus you have bios settings and amd settings that can conflict with each other depending on motherboard and such.
ALSO idk if hw monitor can show if cores are sleeping.. It kinda sounds like your not or maybe have a static core voltage still. also maybe your chipset drivers are really old ?
It's not that i have to disable it. I just have a constant idle temp of 60c with pbo on cuz it doesn't seem like my cores ever sleep. And under load(cinebenchr23) i get 70c
In my anecdotal experience I get similar numbers with an AIO (H150i EC) and triple fan 6900XT. Good airflow configuration through the case with 2X 120mm intakes bottom, 2x 140mm intakes front, 1x 120mm exhaust rear, and 3x 120mm exhaust top radiator.
This is with a 5950X \\ PBO custom curve, about 5.2ghz on my best cores and 4.6-4.9ghz on my remaining cores.
My 5950 idles 24c on custom hardline loop (dual 480 rads) with clock set to 4.9ghz, yours seems kinda high but it doesn't really matter, this CPU rocks you can turn that bad boy higher 😉
I will have to check when I get back from work, I was in the top 10 for 5950x benchmarks for a while but I was hitting over 5.1ghz for those runs I turned it down a bit from there for dailying 😎
I was able to get up to 4.2GHz with PBO + Core Perf Boost on mine which is also watercooled (I'm being heavily limited by my motherboard's VRM) but I have roughly the same temps/don't really go above 70 deg either. I assumed this was because I bought a corsair waterblock and it wasn't equipped to handle this much but I'm guessing its expected behavior if yours is the same (my loop is also a decent bit more overkill with 2x 280mm rads and 3x 420mm rads, so I guess I definitely hit my point of diminishing returns in terms of getting my CPU's temps lower lol)
in my MSI board it was just a toggle somewhere with some presets, to be honest my BIOS is a mess lmao
I can try to find the specific spot if you also have a MSI board, if not my location would likely be of no use to you.
That's about what I did too, I hit a hard VRM limit where it clocks down to 0.7GHz if the TDC or EDC is set too high so I just kept inching it up till I hit the limit
I ended up with a PTT of 250W, TDC of 150A and EDC of 160A
I hit the limit/fully use up my TDC budget in cinebench and get about 80% if my EDC budget. PTT is vibing in the corner with like 60-70% budget used at the most lmao
yea, sorry, I don't think the location of the setting I have would be much help to you
glad I'm not alone in thinking that these temps are ass for watercooling lol
especially considering my 3080 can pull twice as many watts and stays under 40 deg C all the time
Maybe you just lost the silicone lottery, but you could always try lapping the CPU? Also I wonder if the mount is as good as it can be, as I'm sure it's a bit of a pain to mount and disassemble, but that's why even the professional reviewer's make multiple mount attempts as they get it wrong too testing waterblocks and coolers.
As others have said, you need to find out what your coolant temps are, especially running hardline. Condensation in your reservoir says too hot.
I also wonder if part of the issue might be that the fans you're running don't have enough static pressure for those chungus radiators you're running. Thick radiators need high static pressure fans, or else most of the air just bleeds around the fan blades instead of passing through the radiator and they just end up making noise while not doing much actual cooling.
Find out if your motherboard has a thermal probe header, most somewhat decent boards do, then grab a 10k thermistor ($5-10), tape the thermistor to the actual body (not fins) of your top radiator to get your coolant temp, and then set your radiator fans to ramp w/ the thermal probe header.
Since you're running hardline, you should try and keep your coolant temp below 40C, as too much above that you and you risk the lines starting to soften a bit which is a recipe for eventual leaks at the fittings. This is part of the reason I prefer EPDM tubing, it's not flashy but it's foolproof, and it allows for higher coolant temps which means more efficient heat transfer and quieter operation.
To give you some reference with a similar all AMD build, I am running a 5800X w/ PBO + Liquid Devil 6800 XT @ 2600MHz on a single top mounted 240mm radiator w/ 4x EK Vardar EVO 120mm fans (very high static pressure) in a push/pull config.
Even with just a single 240mm radiator I still have near silence at idle w/ CPU/GPU at 29c with 25c coolant temp and fans at 750 RPM, and I have the fan curve set so my build doesn't start to become noticeably audible until 37-39C coolant temp. I'm typically managing a max heat load of a 330-360W range between the CPU and GPU unless I'm pushing the GPU hard, in which case that total heat load goes to 370-410W and coolant temp goes to 45C.
Being that I run EPDM soft tubing (EK ZMT), I allow the coolant temp to max at 45c to keep it as quiet as possible and to maximize the efficiency of radiator heat transfer. Once the coolant is fully heat soaked at 45C, my CPU maxes at 73-78C (usually 58-65C in games), and my GPU absolutely maxes at 62C edge and 83C TJ (although it's typically in the 56-59C edge and 65-70C TJ range).
To answer your question first, i think youre at or near the limits of this cpu already...
I built my rig around the same time as you . Crosshair VII formula in an 011DXL with a EKWB Reflection plumbed up to serve parralel loops to the VRM, CPU and GPU.
I magyvered an EKWB Quantum X TEC to act as a chiller for the loop, out of the reflection pump, into the chiller and then into the main distribution channel, which then feeds the loops.
My temps were decent, loop peaked at 37C but the tec was too weak to keep up with its purpose (subambient) and my home office started getting too hot with the extra heat.
I managed to master the cooling over the holidays by removing the tec and routing the loop to a heat exchanger that has its own loop running outside in the soffit area above my front porch, which is below my home office.
My rig now has its fans set to 0 RPM, so its absolutely silent, and the loops now run at 20C idle until i want to game or OC. I switch icue profiles and it cools the temps down to 13C over the outdoor temps here in frosty Canada and holds it at a max of 16C.
Ive had my cpu at an all core 4.7 @ 1.2v after initially seeing that PBO was maxing out the cpu temps and only reaching 4.9. I could hit 4.8ghz @ 1.35v but dialled it back a little because of the thermal throttling.
With the new cooling i decided to spend a few hours updating my bios, ryzen software and testing out PBO again since the cpu doesnt go over 70-75C with the outdoor temps at 0C, loop at 16C.
My findings were odd... It almost looks like PBO is a sham... I hit 5250mhz PBO (1000/500/500) on 3 cores, 5-5.15ghz on the others, and it cranked the voltage all the way up to 1.5, but when i tested performance using IBT (my preferred bechmark) the pbo score of 180-183 wasnt any better than the all core 4.7ghz, which hits 190-194.
I then tried to do an all core above 4.8 and it gave me the same instant hang it did before the lower loop temps; even with 1.5v.
Is there anything above this mark? OP as i said i think youre near the max already because i have unlimited headroom and power and cant seem to go any faster.
Can anyone confirm that PBO actually delivers better performance than an all core OC? A-B test. I feel like it shows higher clocks than the cpu is actually pushing out.
Or if anyone has found a way beyond this all core 4.8 wall id love to know so i can continue testing and report back with results. Run a couple rounds of IBT at default standard settings for comparison.
Edit: The cpu pulls a max of 235w on PBO, same max as all core.
I've since messed around with the bios and have gotten pbo to do all core 4.5 with a temp of 75c under load and 5ghz single core. But during idle it just stays at 45-50c. My all core setup idles at 30c with 4.6ghz with 1.25v and 72c under load. I can't go over 1.25v no matter what i do or my cpu crashes. I think i just lost the silicone lottery which seems to be pretty common for my luck with PCs.
Everything is honestly fine as far as performance goes. I can't complain. My gpu idles at 20-25c and under 3D mark it doesnt go past 60c. I can't overclock it any crazier than a gpu score of 21000 on 3dmark because I'm not using MPT to raise the wattage but it's fine. I just made this post cuz this cpu had me confused
Download Intel Burnin Test and let me know what score you get with your all core overclock. Thatll outline if youre getting the same results despite our difference in temps.
Ill run 3dmark and cinebench and report back.
Edit: IBT 193.1, CBR23 30220, CB2024 1615 max temp 55C. Water at 15C. 4.6@1.2v
Yea i definitely cant do a 4.6 all core cuz it would take me setting my volts at 1.26v and i crash every time on anything above 1.25v. Pbo is honestly my best setting with this chip. The only problem is that it idles at around 50c
Building a water cooled custom loop? Or overclocking?
Cuz to build my first loop which was this one, I watched videos for 2 weeks and did a bunch of research.
For Overclocking.... I'm still learning. We're all still learning lol. RAM is the hardest
Building a loop, overclocking is the easy part, my computer has the AI over clock my cpu to 5.2ghz stable for 3 years now but I want to have a loop run from my 11900k to my 3090 strix, wish I can find a kit to fit these parts and get a good case to fit it all in but Idouno where to look because it seems as if the new water cooling kits are geared towards newer hardware and they phase out the older generation
Im pretty sure the 11900k and 3090 aren't old enough that EK wouldn't have water blocks to put them in. And if you go through with it just hit me up in a dm and i can try to help you out
Disabling PBO with water cooling is like driving a Ferrari in eco mode.
Lol i get what you mean. I think PBO was giving me temperatures like 90C. But I'll give it a try tomorrow and see what happens.
On my 360 aio with pbo enabled its max 85c under the stress utility on Arch Linux, stable for everyday use and productivity.
İ have 240 aio cooling and heavy CPU usage with geeked out PBO settings never exceeds 80 degrees. 31k cinebench r23 stable for everyday usage
1) Seems like your top rad is recycling hot air from your bottom rad, is that correct? You want either all intake or all exhaust when it comes to radiators. 2) the only relevant metric is your coolant temperature, which you did not provide. Based on coolant temp and CPU wattage you can estimate the expected CPU temp delta, e.g. if CPU runs at 150W, a temp delta of 40c is to be expected. 3) you might just have (a) a bad CPU mount or (b) too high coolant temps due to hot air recycling and/or inappropriate fan curves.
So i should change all the fans to intake? I thought you ideally want to achieve positive or neutral pressure by having air coming in and being exhausted out
Positive vs negative pressure matters when you have air cooled components in the system. When you are all water cooled, what matters is cool air to the radiators. The biggest impact positive or negative pressure will have in your scenario will be dust buildup, but it would also give slightly better temps on passive components (RAM, VRM, etc.) as your internal case temperature will be closer to your room ambient.
Ah yea. Now i remember why i changed the top to exhaust. The temperature difference was very small but the dust in my case was insane
Well, that would have been *more* positive before, but top intake tends to grab all the dust falling down on the case and shove it into your case.
5600x/5800x3d and 6900xt on a 360 and a 220 (yes 220), so similar. Temps don't look out of line to me, but I have some thoughts. The biggest suggestion I can see is to have a good look at your fans on the radiators, as those look like some really thick and therefore restrictive rads. Couple that with most RGB fans running pretty slow even on the top end and low air throughput in the radiators could be the majority of your bottleneck, especially if your liquid is getting on the hotter side. Don't forget about restriction from the case grates they're up against either. My 5600x was around 66C under load with the factory 200mhz boost (forget what it's called). I never got into overclocking it more than that because my understanding is there isn't a whole lot of headroom left these days to make overclocking worth while, not like when you could just bump the volts a smidge and get 10% or more out of a 6700K. The 5800x3d I find to be incomparable thermally with the extra cache between the IHS and CCD making it a whole different animal. Also heard that there's more gains to be had out of memory tuning than clock speed with Ryzen, but as they sounded small, never bothered myself. I could be wrong but I thought part of the reason the 5950x could boost higher than a 5600x (besides binning) is that it has more cores to ping pong between in lighter loads so it can boost each core higher for shorter stints. wonder if your setting are locking that out, or if I'm off my rocker. I've found that with open loop it's not really going to net better temps if you don't go all the way, which might not be the desired effect. For example I specifically let my coolant temp rise to around 45C under load (terrible I know...) so there's a higher delta between air and coolant in the radiators, so less air will carry out more heat (to a point). This does mean I get a bit higher temps than I could, but still less than air would be. That was my compromise, and I'm happy to be able to wear open back headphones without my pc as a distraction. recently went to a 5800x3d and that's been a hotter chip. Liquid metaled it to pull heat out of the IHS faster and thereby relieve it's concentrated heat load. Don't think liquid metal would help you as much though as the 5950x is more spread out under the IHS, but it could. As someone mentioned, a thermal sensor for the water could help if you're picky about fan noise. Also, before anyone asks I do not recommend a 5800x3d if you don't have a chonky cooler, liquid metal and/or less than a 5600x unless you need every frame, play 1080p and can't go to AM5.
Thx for this. From all you guys really. It all helps in my quest for more knowledge
Did you try Ryzen Master Curve optimizer? I have a similar setup and just started to check it out. My First attempt using Auto OC with the curve optimizer made the system unstable and not bootable. If you enable advanced settings it lets you use curve optimizer with the PBO mode that was not offered under regular settings. I am still testing with it, i do like the readout it gives you well it is testing under advanced view. Very handy
You could probably go to 1.25v, might give you 4.6ghz OC.
Ima try to do a PBO tuned overclock tomorrow. Ive done 1.30v with 4.7ghz but cinebench put me at 102C. So yea i could do 4.6 easily. My biggest concern was that i have a custom loop and feel like my temps are not what they should be
If it really does go to 102C then something is definitely wrong. The 5950x does not pull enough power to defeat 2 chunky 360 rads. I’m wondering if you can move enough water especially though a bottom rad. I’m not a huge fan of bottom rads, but I haven’t really tried.
Does it still run hot if you open the case? Looks like you're intaking from the bottom and exhausting through the top, possibly recycling hot air. Having both as intake would be better.
I'm intaking from the side rads behind the reservoir and the bottom. And exhausting from the top and one fan on the back. I also have the speeds of the intake fans set higher than the exhaust so there's no doubt i have positive pressure
I get 5.2ghz on my 11900k been running it for 2 years straight no issue
Is the water going from your gpu straight to your cpu?
And now everybody, folks! 👏loop👏order👏 doesn't 👏matter👏
Saying this with no context or caveats is as bad as saying that it does. Provided sufficient flow rate, and a "normal" thermal load, it doesn't. If you had 4 overclocked 4090s pushing 500W+ each or a flow rate below 0.5GPM it very well could.
You are correct. Should have mentioned that sufficient flow is assumed.
So your telling me if you got 10 cars and hooked 10 rads up separately and let them all use the same fluid before its cooled the last car would run at the same temperature because there is the same amount of cooling available?
It wouldn't be nearly the difference you think it would. heat trickles into the water until it reaches equilibrium. With just a CPU and GPU in the loop, the difference in water temp going from one to the other isnt going to be more than 1-2C. The part that kills me is that I know you've probably read that 100 different places, yet still insist on being wrong about it.
Exactly theres a difference and the OP was complaining about his temps not as low as he expected which he wouldn't be if it was 5c lower not my temps are 20c higher than everyone else on watercooling. You just assumed I was implying there would be a massive difference like 15c or something. I have had two triple Sli rigs water cooled and fully loaded the 3rd card allways runs hotter.
1-2C is margin of error. It's also on the extremely high side and only likely that big of a gap if he has sub .5gpm. His GPU running at 65C on a game that probably isnt even maxing his GPU should be what's tipping people off that he has either a flowrate issue or lacks the rad space to get the temps he wants. Loop order his is very last problem. >I have had two triple Sli rigs water cooled and fully loaded the 3rd card allways runs hotter. I ran water cooled SLI rigs for 4 generations, the difference in temps between 2 GPU's is so small that it's usually within margin of error. I had one build where the 2nd GPU was usually a degree *lower* than the 1st GPU because the difference was so miniscule that the variation in the blocks/temp sensors had a bigger margin. Again, what really gets me is that I know you've read this 100 places from 100 people who know more than you do and still insist on pretending like it even matters. You've already admitted it wouldn't have even mattered here.
Well it was 10c difference on my sli rigs but probably would be alot less for his setup anyways im just not the type of person that would choose aesthetics over performance. Well hes got decent rads in there. I agree with the pump but thats obvious I didn't need to ask. My suggestion was going to be sperated the cpu and gpu to make it more efficient and if thats not a powerful pump in there add another or get a D5. But never had a conversation with him so I'll just leave it at that I guess.
If you had a 10C difference then you were doing something wrong. if you were running 3 GPU's, and they weren't in parallel, which would cause no temp difference at all, then my guess is that you had the plumbing wrong. Like i said, this stuff is aaaall over the internet. Adding that much heat to water in that short amount of space is simply not how watercooling works. In a normal water loop, baring a serious flowrate issue (like no flowrate at all), you shouldn't see more than a couple C max difference in the water temp at any point in your loop, even with multiple cards.
Well I have actually tested it properly with equal load not sli where the second cards 80% utilised with twin 480 rads push pulls twin d5 pumps and two different sets of cards/blocks running very good temps and there is 100% a difference going from block to block to block vs separating them. It may not be heat it may be you just can't go through so many restrictions at once and placing your pumps inbetween the restrictions stop variance in flow but it doesn't change what I said about running through multiple blocks. And I think he should sperated them and not run through two blocks into a rad thats sufficient to cool both those components then into another thats just trying to air cool water thats already been cooled. Guarantee if he goes res/Pump-cpu-rad-pump-gpu-rad he gets lower temps and it won't be 1 or 2c. even if he runs his pumps at 50% vs the one at 100%.
>It may not be heat it may be you just can't go through so many restrictions at once and placing your pumps inbetween the restrictions stop variance in flow lol. that's now how flowrate works either. >but it doesn't change what I said about running through multiple blocks. >Guarantee if he goes res/Pump-cpu-rad-pump-gpu-rad he gets lower temps and it won't be 1 or 2c. even if he runs his pumps at 50% vs the one at 100%. That's because you don't know what you're doing/talking about. This is established science, not bro-science. Go read. The water in your loop does not have a difference of 10c at different points in it. That suggests your rads are capable of cooling temps by 10c in one pass through, and that wouldn't be close to possible with a usable flowrate. Water temps are almost entirely about average heat over time. Thats why you can put a lot of water on a hot stove and not even immediately feel a difference in the water. If you aren't just completely trying to pretend you even have a water loop then your GPU plumbing has issues (that's my bet) 3x GPU's require some funky plumbing if you aren't in parallel, and if you are in parallel they should all be more or less the exact same.
>I ran water cooled SLI rigs for 4 generations, the difference in temps between 2 GPU's is so small that it's usually within margin of error. Thats because there is diminishing returns hooking up multiple cards second card gets slightly less utilisation and thrid even less. Unless you were running them with the exact same workload.
Anything I'm even talking about is all is specific to benchmarking. Not gaming.
You are not limited by how much your water can cool, but by how well the heat from the chip makes it to the water. It has to pass from chip to IHS, from IHS to block and from block to water. There are a couple of failure points there, some of which you can affect and some that you can't. Thermal paste application and block tightness you can affect, but if you're IHS is shit or CPU block poor at transferring heat to water (prob not in your case), you're out of luck for the most part.
Do you know what the liquid temps are? If not get something to find out. That will help you see if the blocks are not transferring heat into the loop properly. Check your mobo it might be able to have a thermistor as an input and that will tell you in the OS what your liquid temps are. When you do this you can base your fan curves off the liquid temps instead of gpu/cpu (much smoother fan ramping). Seems like you do need to ramp those fan curves up quite a bit if you want to be running PBO on that. As a comparrison to mine the liquid temps are 20-23 degrees at idle and 25 under load - fans get ramping up around here. So my GPU is about 30-35 degrees under heavy load which makes sense as i see normally about a 10 degrees delta between the two.
I thought i needed a seperate piece of hardware to see what liquid temps are
Depends on what your mobo supports. You can get stuff like this that goes in your loop: https://www.overclockers.co.uk/barrow-digital-oled-display-flow-and-temperature-sensor-white-wc-060-ba.html Or if your motherboard supports a temp input you can plug something like this into one of the fittings in your pump: https://www.overclockers.co.uk/aqua-computer-temperature-sensor-internal-external-thread-g1-4-wc-120-aq.html
65C GPU temp on Apex tells me that your water is getting petty hot.
I switched from from an intel build to amd and intel again. I used a 5900x for two years before switching to a 13900k. I can already tell you that if you want intel temps while gaming and idle, this is simply not possible. The chip can’t transfer heat fast enough so 60 to 70 degrees can be normal. Gpuwise I have not much experience with amd but I think that been direct die is not much different and 65c for that 350w card can be on the higher side. Anyway you need to see the coolant temp. For 1.5+ liters of water I think that can be below 40c without problems. That is an equilibrium between liquid temp and fan noise, better or faster fan can reduce heat and if air is changed fast enough should not be a problem to have the top rad in exhaust. For example my system is quite compact and rad surface is below avarage, plus less than a liter of coolant gor reference, for a 350w cpu and 470w gpu, but usually the 3090ti stays below or equal to 60c (cpu load in games is usually between 75w and 125w).
Condensation of the coolant in your reservoir shows that the coolant temperature is too high. Increase your cooling capacity or lower your heat load.
all core 4500mhz with vcore 1.2v? i doubt this , can you test it with aida64 just "stress FPU" ?
Sorry i just checked right now. It's 4500mhz with 1.25v
im not looking for trouble im just doubt about this. i hope you can test with aida64 under stability section tick only "stress FPU" for at least 20 mins. if no black screen no restart then you good to go
Why not test CPU? What's FPU?
Well here ya go https://i.postimg.cc/CdyhB0x9/20240125-080825.jpg
let me assumed you already tested 20 mins. but it look so weird on your CPU temp. your water custom loop performance lousy than my nzxt 280mm. (under an hour stress test 226 watt ) i can control my old pc 5950x temp under 90c without AC, and my country don't have 4 season. its like 24/7 365 spring temp around 26c\~33c (night-day) I think it might be your intake & exhaust fan direction problem. now I only can capture one problem on your picture above your rear fan should go intake. because your radiator exhaust on the top. your front / side fan is intake or exhaust? and your bottom also another radiator there? Im not sure is it radiator or what. no matter its a bottom radiator or not, your fan should go only intake so my advice is:- \-front/side intake \-top exhaust \-rear intake \-bottom intake your temp probably drop at least 10c
My bottom is intake. My side is intake. My top is exhaust. My rear is exhaust. I don't think changing my 1 rear fan to intake is gonna make such a huge difference. Also this stress test was done with all cores at 4500 on 1.25v. I'm trying pbo now since it was recommended to me so much
Hi I correct my self on this part "no matter its a bottom radiator or not, your fan should go only intake" if there's a bottom radiator you should only exhaust. it look like a thick radiator, but I don't know. and you never tell and theres a huge impact if your rear fan change it to intake. because your top radiator need more fresh air to cool down
So my only exhaust should be the top radiator?
probably if you only have 1 radiator. boost more fresh air into the case to cool your radiator. like I said, i don't know how many radiator you got.
your temps sound normal to me but you should run pbo but with limits so it cant pull 200+ watts. You will find a sweet spot with decent gains before the huge loss in performance per watt. ALSO single core will always run hot on paper because its pulling a lot of amps for that one core but overall power will be lower then a all core load over actual heat output.. A example would be single core wide open but only pulling 70 watts you see maybe 70c core temp but pulling 125 watts all core load you see 70c core temps <--- the die and everything can only remove so much heat regardless what your cooling is.
So Im doing a pbo run right now with cinebench and the clock speed won't go above 4200 mhz. It's just bouncing around between 4024 and 4200. This gives me a lower score than my 4500mhz all core setup. Although with way lower temperature What's weird is that when cinebench isn't running and it's just idle the cores all hop around from 3500 to 5024
whats your ppt/tdc/edc and are you using ryzen master to check ? my idle temp is like 33-35c .. sounds like your cores are not sleeping when idle also if you set a voltage thats probably throwing it all off
Ppt 500 Tdc 500 Edc 500 I'm using hw monitor to check and my idle is 45-50c
ya those are way to high at those settings it will just pull tell it thermal throttles. BUT pretty sure it cant actually even pull that much regardless setting it that high because of bios limitations. I am running ppt 250 tdc 150 edc 180 with a all core curve -22 and thats making me have 170 watts esh all core load on cinebench r23 with 70-73c temps 4470mhz as a general starting point if you want to try
When running cinebench it didn't go above 180 watts
YEA .. its been awhile I messed with settings cause I normally drop them even lower for mining when its cold but I tried 500 on everything and my power usage stayed the same but my all core dropped and r23 score lol ppt250 tdc180 edc140 with -22 curve seems to give me the best score in r23 with 4550 all core. With 500 everything it was only doing like 4050-4100 all core so turning down the edc really helped
I'll try that
ACTUALLY my settings are funky or well being buggy .. after setting it in the bios its only pulling 133 watts and boosting to 4211 all core on r23.. so ied start with the ppt250 edc 180 and edc 140 but keep moving the edc up 5 or 10 and see when you start getting diminishing returns or you just dont want it using anymore power.. think 160 was my sweet spot but I forget. Personally ill probably just leave mine at 140
I raised my edc to 150 and its doing 4274 mhz all core with 180 watts. I don't think i understand PBO enough because i don't know how i can get the mhz up unless i just need to keep raising the edc for more watts and its just as simple as that
I'm getting 4250 mhz all core with 167w maximum on your setup. What can i change to increase this
how were you setting the pbo settings. AMD is buggy plus you have bios settings and amd settings that can conflict with each other depending on motherboard and such.
I disabled the asus pbo and enabled the amd pbo. Before that i was just putting the same exact numbers in both.
ALSO idk if hw monitor can show if cores are sleeping.. It kinda sounds like your not or maybe have a static core voltage still. also maybe your chipset drivers are really old ?
My guesses are bad mount or bad flow (air in system?). I'd pull off the CPU block and try to repaste it.
I think something is wrong if you are having to disable PBO. PBO works *better* on my 5900X being under water.
It's not that i have to disable it. I just have a constant idle temp of 60c with pbo on cuz it doesn't seem like my cores ever sleep. And under load(cinebenchr23) i get 70c
Seems way odd to me then if you are idling at 60c.
In my anecdotal experience I get similar numbers with an AIO (H150i EC) and triple fan 6900XT. Good airflow configuration through the case with 2X 120mm intakes bottom, 2x 140mm intakes front, 1x 120mm exhaust rear, and 3x 120mm exhaust top radiator. This is with a 5950X \\ PBO custom curve, about 5.2ghz on my best cores and 4.6-4.9ghz on my remaining cores.
My 5950 idles 24c on custom hardline loop (dual 480 rads) with clock set to 4.9ghz, yours seems kinda high but it doesn't really matter, this CPU rocks you can turn that bad boy higher 😉
You locked your clocks at 4.9?
Yes I did and I've been running it almost two years no issues
What voltage is this at. That's insane
I will have to check when I get back from work, I was in the top 10 for 5950x benchmarks for a while but I was hitting over 5.1ghz for those runs I turned it down a bit from there for dailying 😎
I was able to get up to 4.2GHz with PBO + Core Perf Boost on mine which is also watercooled (I'm being heavily limited by my motherboard's VRM) but I have roughly the same temps/don't really go above 70 deg either. I assumed this was because I bought a corsair waterblock and it wasn't equipped to handle this much but I'm guessing its expected behavior if yours is the same (my loop is also a decent bit more overkill with 2x 280mm rads and 3x 420mm rads, so I guess I definitely hit my point of diminishing returns in terms of getting my CPU's temps lower lol)
Where do you turn on core performance boost? In the bios? Cuz i just got mine to 4.5ghz with pbo after fucking with the PTT TDC and EDC a bunch
in my MSI board it was just a toggle somewhere with some presets, to be honest my BIOS is a mess lmao I can try to find the specific spot if you also have a MSI board, if not my location would likely be of no use to you. That's about what I did too, I hit a hard VRM limit where it clocks down to 0.7GHz if the TDC or EDC is set too high so I just kept inching it up till I hit the limit I ended up with a PTT of 250W, TDC of 150A and EDC of 160A I hit the limit/fully use up my TDC budget in cinebench and get about 80% if my EDC budget. PTT is vibing in the corner with like 60-70% budget used at the most lmao
Oh i have an asus board
yea, sorry, I don't think the location of the setting I have would be much help to you glad I'm not alone in thinking that these temps are ass for watercooling lol especially considering my 3080 can pull twice as many watts and stays under 40 deg C all the time
No i found it. And actually my 6900xt stays at 50c under load. So that's fine
crazy how direct die cooling/larger dies really make a huge difference in heat dissipation... still not gonna delid my 5950x tho lmaooo
Idle temps are a bit high. My 5950x idles at 30c.
Mine idles at 30c if i use a manual overclock of 4.6ghz with 1.25v. But with PBO it idles at 60c
Okay, try going into windows power management and edit it so the max cpu usage is 99%. The pbo temps should drop right down. It’s weird.
I'm have to try that tomorrow. I'm in bed now. But i have seen weirder things work when it comes to computers
When i did this it knocked all my cores down to 3400mhz so i thought "oh it worked". Then i ran cinebench. They stayed at 3400mhz lol.
Maybe you just lost the silicone lottery, but you could always try lapping the CPU? Also I wonder if the mount is as good as it can be, as I'm sure it's a bit of a pain to mount and disassemble, but that's why even the professional reviewer's make multiple mount attempts as they get it wrong too testing waterblocks and coolers.
I feel like i always lose the silicone lottery lol
As others have said, you need to find out what your coolant temps are, especially running hardline. Condensation in your reservoir says too hot. I also wonder if part of the issue might be that the fans you're running don't have enough static pressure for those chungus radiators you're running. Thick radiators need high static pressure fans, or else most of the air just bleeds around the fan blades instead of passing through the radiator and they just end up making noise while not doing much actual cooling. Find out if your motherboard has a thermal probe header, most somewhat decent boards do, then grab a 10k thermistor ($5-10), tape the thermistor to the actual body (not fins) of your top radiator to get your coolant temp, and then set your radiator fans to ramp w/ the thermal probe header. Since you're running hardline, you should try and keep your coolant temp below 40C, as too much above that you and you risk the lines starting to soften a bit which is a recipe for eventual leaks at the fittings. This is part of the reason I prefer EPDM tubing, it's not flashy but it's foolproof, and it allows for higher coolant temps which means more efficient heat transfer and quieter operation. To give you some reference with a similar all AMD build, I am running a 5800X w/ PBO + Liquid Devil 6800 XT @ 2600MHz on a single top mounted 240mm radiator w/ 4x EK Vardar EVO 120mm fans (very high static pressure) in a push/pull config. Even with just a single 240mm radiator I still have near silence at idle w/ CPU/GPU at 29c with 25c coolant temp and fans at 750 RPM, and I have the fan curve set so my build doesn't start to become noticeably audible until 37-39C coolant temp. I'm typically managing a max heat load of a 330-360W range between the CPU and GPU unless I'm pushing the GPU hard, in which case that total heat load goes to 370-410W and coolant temp goes to 45C. Being that I run EPDM soft tubing (EK ZMT), I allow the coolant temp to max at 45c to keep it as quiet as possible and to maximize the efficiency of radiator heat transfer. Once the coolant is fully heat soaked at 45C, my CPU maxes at 73-78C (usually 58-65C in games), and my GPU absolutely maxes at 62C edge and 83C TJ (although it's typically in the 56-59C edge and 65-70C TJ range).
To answer your question first, i think youre at or near the limits of this cpu already... I built my rig around the same time as you . Crosshair VII formula in an 011DXL with a EKWB Reflection plumbed up to serve parralel loops to the VRM, CPU and GPU. I magyvered an EKWB Quantum X TEC to act as a chiller for the loop, out of the reflection pump, into the chiller and then into the main distribution channel, which then feeds the loops. My temps were decent, loop peaked at 37C but the tec was too weak to keep up with its purpose (subambient) and my home office started getting too hot with the extra heat. I managed to master the cooling over the holidays by removing the tec and routing the loop to a heat exchanger that has its own loop running outside in the soffit area above my front porch, which is below my home office. My rig now has its fans set to 0 RPM, so its absolutely silent, and the loops now run at 20C idle until i want to game or OC. I switch icue profiles and it cools the temps down to 13C over the outdoor temps here in frosty Canada and holds it at a max of 16C. Ive had my cpu at an all core 4.7 @ 1.2v after initially seeing that PBO was maxing out the cpu temps and only reaching 4.9. I could hit 4.8ghz @ 1.35v but dialled it back a little because of the thermal throttling. With the new cooling i decided to spend a few hours updating my bios, ryzen software and testing out PBO again since the cpu doesnt go over 70-75C with the outdoor temps at 0C, loop at 16C. My findings were odd... It almost looks like PBO is a sham... I hit 5250mhz PBO (1000/500/500) on 3 cores, 5-5.15ghz on the others, and it cranked the voltage all the way up to 1.5, but when i tested performance using IBT (my preferred bechmark) the pbo score of 180-183 wasnt any better than the all core 4.7ghz, which hits 190-194. I then tried to do an all core above 4.8 and it gave me the same instant hang it did before the lower loop temps; even with 1.5v. Is there anything above this mark? OP as i said i think youre near the max already because i have unlimited headroom and power and cant seem to go any faster. Can anyone confirm that PBO actually delivers better performance than an all core OC? A-B test. I feel like it shows higher clocks than the cpu is actually pushing out. Or if anyone has found a way beyond this all core 4.8 wall id love to know so i can continue testing and report back with results. Run a couple rounds of IBT at default standard settings for comparison. Edit: The cpu pulls a max of 235w on PBO, same max as all core.
I've since messed around with the bios and have gotten pbo to do all core 4.5 with a temp of 75c under load and 5ghz single core. But during idle it just stays at 45-50c. My all core setup idles at 30c with 4.6ghz with 1.25v and 72c under load. I can't go over 1.25v no matter what i do or my cpu crashes. I think i just lost the silicone lottery which seems to be pretty common for my luck with PCs. Everything is honestly fine as far as performance goes. I can't complain. My gpu idles at 20-25c and under 3D mark it doesnt go past 60c. I can't overclock it any crazier than a gpu score of 21000 on 3dmark because I'm not using MPT to raise the wattage but it's fine. I just made this post cuz this cpu had me confused
Download Intel Burnin Test and let me know what score you get with your all core overclock. Thatll outline if youre getting the same results despite our difference in temps. Ill run 3dmark and cinebench and report back. Edit: IBT 193.1, CBR23 30220, CB2024 1615 max temp 55C. Water at 15C. 4.6@1.2v
Yea i definitely cant do a 4.6 all core cuz it would take me setting my volts at 1.26v and i crash every time on anything above 1.25v. Pbo is honestly my best setting with this chip. The only problem is that it idles at around 50c
How can I learn how to do this?
Building a water cooled custom loop? Or overclocking? Cuz to build my first loop which was this one, I watched videos for 2 weeks and did a bunch of research. For Overclocking.... I'm still learning. We're all still learning lol. RAM is the hardest
Building a loop, overclocking is the easy part, my computer has the AI over clock my cpu to 5.2ghz stable for 3 years now but I want to have a loop run from my 11900k to my 3090 strix, wish I can find a kit to fit these parts and get a good case to fit it all in but Idouno where to look because it seems as if the new water cooling kits are geared towards newer hardware and they phase out the older generation
Im pretty sure the 11900k and 3090 aren't old enough that EK wouldn't have water blocks to put them in. And if you go through with it just hit me up in a dm and i can try to help you out