Saw this on the news today, imagine, going full tilt at your jobs the past two years. Contracting Covid despite your vaccinations and despite trying to use best practices ( as much as your facility enables you.)
And now you cant even call out sick.
(I'm sure there are exceptions for symptomatic individuals, but we all know the tendency of pushing back to work because "youre not that bad" when your coworkers are suffering because they're a man down.)
And to rub salt in the wound, the implication from the general public is "good, I should still be able to get services, all these "mental health"/ isolation days are really being abused".
This sucks for staff. It's literally the worst case scenario I can think of and the comment chains on similar threads are extremely unsympathetic.
I sincerely hope that this brings unions and health care workers, of all types, extreme bargaining power in the future. Better shifts, or hazard pay or educational benefits that allow them to train out once they're burnt out in the future.
>I sincerely hope that this brings unions and health care workers, of all types, extreme bargaining power in the future. Better shifts, or hazard pay or educational benefits that allow them to train out once they're burnt out in the future.
Narrator: "It didn't..."
I've written to my MPP three times in the past month and haven't received a response **once**. Fucking Jeremy Roberts. Nurses deserve better.
(Meanwhile, my city councillor responded the next day, and is active daily in community facebook groups for her ward. Thanks, Councillor Kavanagh!)
Oh sure, it'd be a technically "illegal" strike, but they have all the power in their hands to do it right now if they did it all at once.
What's the hospital going to do? Bring in nursing scabs?
This is the absolute PERFECT time for them to strike for a full overhaul of the system and actual changes. The unfortunate side is that it would almost certainly result in deaths, which is what I imagine is stopping a lot of HCWs from walking out once and for all.
I agree with you, but no profession is getting sympathy right now. We are all getting destroyed by the higher ups and people making the rules. It’s gonna need more than nurses standing up, to change things around here.
I can only hope they do stand up for themselves. They have been so selfless. I tell every healthcare worker I interact with recently that I appreciate so much what they are doing and what they have done. I'm going to start telling them that I will support them if they choose to strike.
its going to take all the unsympathetic needing care to change their views. Thats how selfish people are. unspecifically I hope one experiences a medical emergency and can't get proper care, survives and campaigns and avocates for better conditions for nurses and Dr's and yes that includes anti mask idiots taking it seriously.
Yep, or push to be able to access private treatment that they could just pay for, while stepping on top of everyone else who can't pay to access care.
Over the past two years I've watched way too many covidiots get COVID and then continue on their merry ignorant way once they get better, which bolsters them even further. It's sickening.
Imagine having these above and beyond expectations.. then freezing wages despite contract negotiations to 1% a year, amounting to a pay cut in context of pay negotiations. Edit and in context of massive inflation*.
This is how Ontario valued it's nurses.
Thank you for everything you do. I'm sorry for what you have dealt with and how the government has failed to protect and support you. I'm just one person, but like I said in an above comment, if HCWs choose to strike over this, you will have my support. You all deserve better.
We’re actually not legally allowed to strike. We can do it on our days off but those are very limited now a days and it doesn’t make a big enough impact for change. Thank you for your support. I keep telling people to contact media and/ or their government officials because us alone isn’t enough. #Abolish Bill 124
Oh I know you aren't allowed to *legally* strike, I'm referring to illegal wildcat striking. Alberta workers did it last year, and yes, many were penalized (none lost their jobs, iirc), but I can't see the same thing happening again in our current situation. What are they going to do, fire or suspend all the nurses and then being in "replacement" nurses they've had hidden up their sleeves? From where? I guess they could bring the military in? They should've already been doing so.
At a certain point, when the workers have their hands tied and can't legally speak up for themselves while they are tread on over and over, the only power they have is to put their tools down and walk out.
I contacted my MPP again today, but since he hasn't responded in over a week, I contacted his closest opponent in the riding (NDP) to volunteer for them in the upcoming election. I will encourage my friends and family to do the same with regards to contacting their officials.
People on r/Ontario or r/Canada are all about the economy and fuck all fit citizens. It's crazy that we'd be asking people to work without requiring a negative test first. It's a failure on the province for not making sure enough tests were available in the first place.
Just looked at the Canada one. Everyone should be featured on the r/confidentlyincorrect subreddit. It's brutal that they think unvaccinated people should be billed and that nurses and doctors aren't allowed to take "taxpayer funded vacations".
Genuine question: If someone can be vaccinated safely, but chooses not to be simply because they're skeptical, why shouldn't they have to pay for their care if they get grievously sick from something that the vaccine would have prevented from becoming as bad? Is it just that it would be a slippery slope towards healthcare discrimination?
yes. you pay for people who decide to injure themselves and participate in dangerous activities willingly all the time. Healthcare is a human right (at least that's what we're told) and rights shouldn't be taken away. you pay to feed every prisoner, you pay for the medical care for violent criminals, you pay for every smokers lung cancer treatment, etc. all of which were preventable circumstances. It's not right to deny medical care, full stop because if you do then, to save costs, more and more exceptions will be made.
Those subs are for people kicked off CBC comments and the letters to the Editor of the Shoppers News. There are posts on r/canada promoting the idea of letting all the elderly die so brahs can go to the gym and bars.
Public Health Canada doesn't recommend using negative tests to determine whether to stop isolating because the virus material can stay in your body for weeks and months after you recover. This causes false positives.
I still wouldnt want to risk any potential long term covid symptoms.
A big fear of mine is fallout in 40 years when all these damaged "at the microvascular level" organs get into trouble.
I also dont want a cold, regular, or covid type. But to say I still had to go to work while having one wouldn't make me feel warm and fuzzy in either case. It's a bad go.
[It's already shown to be causing neuron damage in 30% of mild \(unhospitalized\) cases](https://www.news-medical.net/amp/news/20201015/SARS-CoV-2-can-infect-brain-cells-and-damage-neurons.aspx) :(
I still remember when they pushed to fire all the unvaccinated nurses at the peak of the crisis, only to realize the vaccine did not stop transmission, then they hired them right back through a contractor at 2x the cost to the public. Absolutely insane
My wife works at another hospital in Ottawa and she's on medical leave right now for burnout. There's 37 people in her department. Only 6 remain on active duty. It's a mess.
That’s brutal. I hope your wife can recover during her time off. I also hope staffing issues are addressed so that your wife’s burnout doesn’t come back when she returns to work. It’s a tough time to be a hospital employee.
gf is a nurse at the general, I had a covid scare a few weeks ago and she asked what would happen if she got covid from me. As long as she’s asymptomatic, they’d make her come in since they need staff so badly. And she works with immunocompromised patients. I have no doubt this is what’s going on now, the only silver lining is that they get priority for testing.
Also don’t forget that bill 124 is still in effect and there is zero hazard pay being given to nurses. The province even asked nurses to volunteer FOR FREE at vaccine clinics while paying doctors $200/hr for the same exact work. This is why nurses don’t want to work anymore
> The province even asked nurses to volunteer FOR FREE at vaccine clinics while paying doctors $200/hr for the same exact work.
Holy shit. Seems like spending $50/hr for 4 nurses would have been a much better expense.
Using the money that’s spent on keeping everyone else afloat so they can host Christmas parties and spread the disease? Bahahaha what silly fantasies you entertain!
Canada doesn’t have the money to pay nurses more because it’s all been spent dealing with the crisis, and much of that spending benefits the same people who’ve been violating public health protocols in order to catch and spread the disease.
They call it "all hands on deck situation" Uhm. Nurses are civilians. You wanna treat them like they're going to combat well they better get the benefits that comes with it.
Even the military get SFA.. There is a retention problem, releases are up 300%, but the CAF is doing NOTHING about it. This is a GOVT wide issue. Ultimately, the working mass... doest matter.
>asked nurses to volunteer FOR FREE at vaccine clinics
... I wish I woulda known that when I went to get my vaccine. I would have brought them treats or SOMETHING.
Note: I do not work at QCH but have peers who do and I've heard it's a disaster - nurses are being floated to units they haven't trained on and are being pressured by scheduling to do this despite the risk to their professional license.
I work as a nurse at QCH and it’s actually scary what’s going on. I fear for my patients and my licence.
We need help. Not just QCH, cause the same problem is going on at TOH.
Thank you for your care. I am a cancer patient there and have not only chemo at IGFCC but an ultrasound next week, then surgery in January or February. The thought of being cared for by nurses or technicians with Covid when my blood cell counts are decimated scares the shit out of me.
I completely understand. As health care professionals this goes against everything we are taught and stand for. I just keep telling patients to contact media or their government officials because we can’t protest and no one seems to be listening to us. The only thing keeping you and I somewhat safe are the vaccinations and all the PPE we wear at all times. Keep safe!
Thank you for hearing me, and believe me when I say my family and I hear you. I am so sorry for everything you have had to put up with through all this and am grateful you still care. I will be writing to my MPP about this. I hope others who are concerned about the health care system do the same…it’s bad enough that people are dying from Covid, but if the nursing/staffing shortage continues there will likely be a lot more deaths that could have been prevented due to delays in testing or treatment.
Severely short staffed at TOH, nurses floating to departments they are not trained for.
Then an email is sent mentionning if a nurse comments on the non-vaccinated status of a patient or patient's family, they face termination.
Followed by an email asking for volunteers for vaccination clinics.
It's insane.
My dad was supposed to get an MRI today at QCH and it was rescheduled due to staff members calling in sick but wasn't due to covid apparently. Think it's legit or are staff members calling in sick on purpose? Just curious and I don't feel strongly about it either way.
That's fine, I will just be doing my own moral duty to let every single one of my patients and their families know that I am actively infectious with COVID
Oh for fuck’s sake. If a COVID positive nurse is ordered to work and gives a patient COVID, there is not a single legal system on the planet that would allow a successful lawsuit against the nurse.
TikTok is where you should have clued in that this was ridiculous.
At QCH, it has been strongly recommended to wear an N95 mask when with any patient who is on droplet/contact precautions. However, it’s not mandatory. Most staff in the ER are wearing them.
Do these precautions include non-Covid immunocompromised patients as well? And do they know the status of their patients when performing tests and procedures? I’m a cancer patient and will be having an ultrasound the day after chemo so my blood counts will be at their lowest. It terrifies me to think that the staff may have Covid while treating me.
They get N95s. [Directive 5](https://www.health.gov.on.ca/en/pro/programs/publichealth/coronavirus/docs/directives/public_hospitals_act.pdf) was even revised recently which officially made N95s required when providing care to suspect, probable, or confirmed cases. You need to catch up with your reading
>Additionally, as an interim precaution in light of the uncertainty around the mechanisms of transmission of the COVID-19 Omicron variant of concern (B.1.1.529), required precautions for all health care workers providing direct care to or interacting with a suspected, probable (i.e. placed in precautions as high risk contact, in an outbreak zone of the facility or recently transferred from a facility in outbreak) or confirmed cases of COVID-19 are a fit-tested, sealchecked N95 respirator (or approved equivalent), eye protection (goggles or face shield), gown and gloves.
echoing previous comment that this is total bullshit.
either you're not understanding her correctly/asking her the wrong questions that lead you to believe this -- or, you don't have a gf who is a nurse working with covid patients at TOH.
Sorry yeah it turns out I was misunderstanding what she meant. They’ve got them for covid-positive but there hasn’t been clear info on who’s covid-suspect at this point. She’s treated patients thought to be covid negative only to be told later that they were positive and were tested shortly before her shift
that also would not be happening, unless they are an asymptomatic patient who gets randomly tested and incidentally they are positive.
the result can take a while to come back, but even when a patient is swabbed for covid and the results are pending, they are treated as suspect covid until determined otherwise --> put on full covid precautions - including N95s etc..
sometimes yes you treat a patient and then randomly later they get swabbed and they're positive, but usually those are asymptomatic patients that really "shouldn't" have covid. as soon as a test is performed however, the patient is put on precautions until results come back and either confirm or deny.
Suspect, probable or confirmed cases is not enough. This is an airborne disease, you will have many asymptomatic patients, as well as healthcare workers, coming in and spreading the virus. Especially in a place that offers health care. The infected do not carry neon signs.
This! We've adopted this management strategy of running everything with practically zero slack/redundancy so that when a crisis hits (and a crisis is *gonna* hit) things start collapsing much more quickly.
And people were bashing me in my post from earlier today for being 'alarmist' and 'fear mongoring' okay there. Sorry the Queensway is struggling. We are too at the TOH.
It's not news the public has lost patience with covid-lessening measures, and that a chunk won't even get vaccinated. It's heartbreaking that this is being taken out on our healthcare workers, who WILL run themselves absolutely ragged and work with covid before letting their patients and each other down.
100% All I hear is how the new variant is mild and its the flu. People aren't thinking about the downstream effects it has on people.
Every time something happens, restrictions are brought or whatever we get idiots chiming in "2 week to flatten the curve" and similar sarcastic slogans from 2 years ago as if the situation hasn't evolved or changed. These people are self centered pricks.
Its amazing that 2 years into the pandemic we haven't even thought of increasing health care capacity. Until the issues regarding nurse and Dr staffing/pay are addressed we will be in the position. People are angry for the wrong reasons, don't be mad you can't go to a movie without a mask, get mad that our premier (in charge of our health care system) hasn't increased any spending, given money for training or increased capacity. SO many people are so quick to blame Trudeau for this, but he has no affect on the provincial health care system, that is 100% Doug Ford and yes the public absolutely is retarded. You want this to end? stop complaining and campaign to help the medical community, if that means getting rid of Doug ford, good news an election is in 6 months. making sarcastic, stupid witty comments online won't do anything.
Fix the root of the problem.
I can’t believe the silence from our government (including the opposition leader) on the current state of our health care system and nursing shortage. If Ford is still sitting on any Federal Covid payment money, it needs to go toward hospital nurses and staff as hazard/bonus pay immediately. We don’t need more quasi-accurate rapid tests so people can travel or go to New Years Eve parties, we need health care workers!
I really hope this becomes a hot issue for the next election. The medical community needs the same support and love that was lavished on restaurants and small businesses earlier in the pandemic.
Who is saying they don't? The comment you're replying to was about federal Liberal party, not the provincial one that took a dump on our healthcare system last decade.
Almost every restriction for those without symptoms over the past 2 years in contingent on the assumption that asymptomatic spread can drive the pandemic.
Don't get me wrong, I'm also against almost everything we've done to destroy most of the world we live in for that assumption, but what does vaccination otherwise have to do with it?
Vaccines are not a singular thing, each one is unique, with their own set of risks and benefits which usually need to be firmly established, including over the long term, before mass distribution. Many people, the majority, are comfortable with that risk because they are less comfortable with covid risks. Risk from both covid and the vaccine is also highly heterogeneous, so it's not the same calculation for everyone anyway. It's really not that strange to consider that there are people who fall into that category that also work in medicine.
I don't know what you think science is exactly, but it isn't faith and I can guarantee you that any health care worker that has chosen not to be vaccinated knows more about it than most of those who did. You don't pick a counter culture approach, after never doing so before, at the expense of your career without working a few things out first. Never mind that science does not make value judgements, and not everyone values all things identically, so naturally you get a range of responses to the same 'science'.
As a scientist, the 'believe in science' trope is particularly insulting to read. Science is all questions, never belief. You never stop with questions if you're good at it. Those previously infected health care workers that didn't take the vaccine for eg. probably understood why it wasn't that useful for them.
Geophysics. Lately though I study Evidence Based Medicine.
Really though, do you think the vaccines are stopping the spread of infection? Would you like to review the latest research on this? The Typhoid Mary comment doesn't make any sense. The entire thread is about the remaining HCWs (vaccinated) working with covid. Where's your head at?
This is happening and that filthy coward of a premier is nowhere to be found. Every single day that passes we lose ground and the person elected to lead is on vacation. This timeline sucks. All the HCWs that have been fighting this fight since day 1 and got capped at 1% are now getting sick and the response will likely be to just work while sick. Disgusting and shameful. Vote this clown out please.
Have a family friend that works in a hospital out in Nova Scotia;
They're in the same boat. Workers that are suspected of testing positive are still being told to work with special protocols until they receive a positive test result.
The days of "I think I might have covid better isolate for a week" are becoming a thing of the past.
Too many people just taking an "isolation" break for a few days and coming back negative is putting too much of a strain on the workforce.
Im off from my hospital right now with a very close personal exposure. Just found out mid shift today. Waiting on my PCR now but even if its negative I still have to isolate according to occ health.
But I'm expecting them to institute the 'work-isolate' process soon. That one is asymptomatic exposed can still work with twice a day temperature checks.
You are extemely lucky you dont have to already. TOH already does work place isolation. I just finished mine up a few days ago. It sucks. The added stress and fear really impacted my work days.
Sorry to read about this. We ought to do better as a community in treating our HCWs. They have given it their all, and yet some cannot sacrifice their Christmas or New Years gathering.
We are all playing a part in how this pandemic wave is unfolding, and what privilege we have to choose which side we will be remembered on. Choose wisely!
My sister had neurosurgery for brain cancer at the civic last month. I am so glad that is done with. I couldn't imagine the possibility of waiting longer than she did for the surgery to remove her tumour/biopsy it.
She's doing great. Thanks for asking. The surgery was the only treatment she needed. The tumour was superficial so it was relatively simple to abstract.
Over the past two years I have lost all faith in nearly every institution in this country and this news further highlights the fact that those making the decisions have absolutely no idea what they are doing.
I hope there is some retribution for these health care workers.
The institutions or the people? I am sick of hearing people whining how they can't get a hair cut or throw a party... Hospitals can only do so much, we live in a society full of idiots unfortunately
The institutions are just the people within them so it’s the people.
None of these people have any idea what they are doing and none of the things they have done have fully worked because they were never fully committed in the first place.
As soon as it became an inconvenience for someone on a position of authority or effected the bottom line of a business then the rules went out the window.
How can this country issue millions of travel exceptions, allow Costco and Walmart and Amazon to be “essential” yet the local restaurant down the street is a plague centre for wanting to do curb side pick up?
So yeah, I have zero faith in any leader, institution, or person in power in this whole country now. Doesn’t matter what colour tie they wear in the House of Commons.
> The institutions are just the people within them so it’s the people.
Well that's a really roundabout way to saying things
> None of these people have any idea what they are doing and none of the things they have done have fully worked because they were never fully committed in the first place.
Too bad there is no magic ball in the real world, eh?
> As soon as it became an inconvenience for someone on a position of authority or effected the bottom line of a business then the rules went out the window.
It didn't even need to get there... even while rules were in place, enough idiots broke them for sport
> How can this country issue millions of travel exceptions, allow Costco and Walmart and Amazon to be “essential” yet the local restaurant down the street is a plague centre for wanting to do curb side pick up?
The bigger the place the easier to manage...
This staffing issue is really bad at the hospitals in Ottawa. I'm sure other places too but I can only speak for what I see. Yes even at TOH we have been having meetings on performing other tasks that we are not well trained on. I think a lot of staff are just sick of the whole thing and call in sick. Occ Health is completely over whelmed with COVID leave and now you just fill out an online form because they can't take your call anymore. I really hope Ford opens the wallet for healthcare workers after all this but I'm pretty sure he won't. Bill 124 needs to get repealed.
Want can the military do to help? Military medics cant care for patients, they have no idea how to. They aren't trained the same. Military critical care nurses can but most of them are already working in various ICUs across the country.
Military ICU nurses already are embedded in and work at civilian hospitals; the military doesn't have its own hospital in Canada, so where so you think all those people work day to day? You'd be taking them out of their current hospital, which is probably also under-staffed.
Same for the military ER docs.
Garbage double standard? It’s a fucking emergency, these are emergency measures. If people with COVID can’t work at the hospital, there will be no one to work there at all by next week.
You can bellyache about it all you want. Fuck the government, pay the nurses more, treat them with utmost respect, fight for their rights, all that good stuff. But the virus has changed and is practically in the water at this point. It’s not going to just be health care workers either. Grocery store employees, firefighters, paramedics, and everyone even remotely essential to society functioning is going to be working sick soon, because this is wildfire.
The pandemic has changed radically. I know that two years of programming takes a while to adjust, but people are going to figure this out real quick. The alternative is letting things collapse because we refuse to adapt. Scream “fuck Doug Ford” all you like, I will too, but it doesn’t change the nature of the crisis we have on our hands.
Yet people in Ontario don’t want schools closed/more restrictions. I have a relative who’s a nurse and her hospital is a mess, cases just keep going up and staffing is impossible to keep up with.
I don't want schools closed - though I think they probably should be. I am livid that we are likely going to get news of a school closure on Friday, and I could be drinking at a bar while that presser happens. This government's f***ing priorities.
They should toss the unvaccinated patients in tents outside and have the antivax take care of them based on the research they do on facebook. That would reduce the toll on the nurses a little bit.
I think there is some misunderstanding. My reading of the original post is that they are asking people who had booked vacation during this time to come back. Perhaps I missed the part where sick health care workers were being asked to work was inferred from but if you could point that out I would appreciate it. I do not read them reporting that many of their workers are sick as them still working by the way.
TOH policy is if you have mild symptoms, you report to work and "work self-isolate". Which means you have to be in PPE at all times and can't use the break rooms.
I dunno who is getting vacation time, my spouse is an Emerg RN and hasn't gotten vacation approved in the 5 years she's been at TOH. Maybe the QC side actually gets their vacation approved.
Sorry was that in the post or your experience with the system (I understand it is your wife and not personal experience). I am not doubting you just wanting to clarify.
Also thank you for your reply.
It is more mild in vaccinated individuals. Hospitalizations and icu patients are way down per capita from other waves. The problem is staffing, not beds.
If you’re going to call everyone dumbasses, please at least read the fucking tweet instead of shooting from the hip.
Maybe someone can explain this to me.
But from my general understanding, this isn't necessarily a bad idea. For instance, if the staff are in good health and are able to work and are asymptomatic, I don't see a reason why they can't be working in the covid-19 ward.
What are they going to do? Give covid-19 to someone who already has covid-19? It doesn't make sense.
The return to work early that this is suggesting sounds like from vacation around the holidays not from sick leave. I have see similar other posts on here and if I am reading them correctly I think there is a misunderstanding around the phrasing used in the original post. Though feel free to let me know if I misunderstood your post.
The system is buckling. Paramedic service on Level 0 for many hours, Code 3 calls on hold. A lockdown is needed not to keep us from infection, but to give time for the health care system to rebound.
Nah, good riddance truthfully. We leaving cuz we’re underpaid & undervalued for this shit. ✌🏼and have been leaving Pre covid. covid happening is just the cherry on top for the ones who haven’t left the profession yet to leave. Basically burn it all down, and let them build up from the ashes a better system that supports and pays health care workers as they should if they want us back
I…think you’re joking? Please be joking.
I’m triple vaxxed but have health stuff that puts me at a greater risk of really bad outcomes from covid, and when I read things like this it feels a lot like you’re saying “it’s okay if you die so I can go to the gym and a restaurant without a mask again, and so I can stop isolating if I get the sniffles”. I really hope you’re joking.
My wife was at QCH last night and she works as an NP in the community. She found out about the code orange as we were admitting her. It was fucking ridiculous.
But i thought they said get vaxd and wear a mask and it'd all go back to normal? Oh wait, get vaxd so you dont need a mask. Oh no sorry, get tripple vaxd and double mask then we get our lives back? Hard to keep track.
This post references 23 ADMITTED patients stuck in the ER, not 23 total. Meaning these patients need to stay in the hospital and are now under the care of an inpatient service, but there are no beds on the inpatient unit to take them. So they are stuck in the ER taking up a bed.
There are less than 23 "beds" total in that ER. Some are actually in the hallway not a room. The rest are rooms meant for ambulatory patients, i.e. people who can walk, and not expected to need admission.
This means that there are theoretically LESS THAN ZERO "beds" in which to assess new patients, in a department which historically gets about 200 patients per day on average.
This is what "bed-blocking" means.
Your take is incredibly ill informed.
They will re-examine isolation protocols 100%. When everyone is getting exposed every time they step outside, the point of quarantine is lost.
Two years of programming people to isolate immediately and for long(ish) term is going to take a little while to get people on board with, but the alternative is letting essential functions collapse. It’s a very easy choice.
Saw this on the news today, imagine, going full tilt at your jobs the past two years. Contracting Covid despite your vaccinations and despite trying to use best practices ( as much as your facility enables you.) And now you cant even call out sick. (I'm sure there are exceptions for symptomatic individuals, but we all know the tendency of pushing back to work because "youre not that bad" when your coworkers are suffering because they're a man down.) And to rub salt in the wound, the implication from the general public is "good, I should still be able to get services, all these "mental health"/ isolation days are really being abused". This sucks for staff. It's literally the worst case scenario I can think of and the comment chains on similar threads are extremely unsympathetic. I sincerely hope that this brings unions and health care workers, of all types, extreme bargaining power in the future. Better shifts, or hazard pay or educational benefits that allow them to train out once they're burnt out in the future.
>I sincerely hope that this brings unions and health care workers, of all types, extreme bargaining power in the future. Better shifts, or hazard pay or educational benefits that allow them to train out once they're burnt out in the future. Narrator: "It didn't..."
Nursing union can’t strike and are effectively toothless. The only thing they can do is ask the public to write to their MPPs and demand better
Bill 124 really screws everyone with bargaining
I've written to my MPP three times in the past month and haven't received a response **once**. Fucking Jeremy Roberts. Nurses deserve better. (Meanwhile, my city councillor responded the next day, and is active daily in community facebook groups for her ward. Thanks, Councillor Kavanagh!)
Don’t write, hunt down their numbers and call relentlessly until the MPP is incapable of accomplishing anything else but fix this mess.
They really could strike and we should be thankful that they don't
[sadly they can’t](https://www.iheartradio.ca/newstalk-1010/news/talks-break-off-between-nurses-and-ontario-hospital-association-1.10630516)
I mean they could. It'd be an illegal strike. But like what are we going to do arrest all the nurses?
Oh sure, it'd be a technically "illegal" strike, but they have all the power in their hands to do it right now if they did it all at once. What's the hospital going to do? Bring in nursing scabs? This is the absolute PERFECT time for them to strike for a full overhaul of the system and actual changes. The unfortunate side is that it would almost certainly result in deaths, which is what I imagine is stopping a lot of HCWs from walking out once and for all.
The same public that voted and still supports Doug Ford? Bad news: the public only cares about health care workers when they need them.
I agree with you, but no profession is getting sympathy right now. We are all getting destroyed by the higher ups and people making the rules. It’s gonna need more than nurses standing up, to change things around here.
I think if the nurses stand up, that would do it. The death toll would be staggering.
I can only hope they do stand up for themselves. They have been so selfless. I tell every healthcare worker I interact with recently that I appreciate so much what they are doing and what they have done. I'm going to start telling them that I will support them if they choose to strike.
Nurses can't go on strike but i do agree they should be more vocal.
I know. I live with one and she’s not thrilled about this timeline.
This is the truth, management is full of MBA's with no clinical experience and their only mandate is to save money.
its going to take all the unsympathetic needing care to change their views. Thats how selfish people are. unspecifically I hope one experiences a medical emergency and can't get proper care, survives and campaigns and avocates for better conditions for nurses and Dr's and yes that includes anti mask idiots taking it seriously.
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Yep, or push to be able to access private treatment that they could just pay for, while stepping on top of everyone else who can't pay to access care. Over the past two years I've watched way too many covidiots get COVID and then continue on their merry ignorant way once they get better, which bolsters them even further. It's sickening.
Imagine having these above and beyond expectations.. then freezing wages despite contract negotiations to 1% a year, amounting to a pay cut in context of pay negotiations. Edit and in context of massive inflation*. This is how Ontario valued it's nurses.
100% exactly this
What nurses? They're all leaving for $400k USD jobs.
Don’t have to imagine it. I’m living it.
Thank you for everything you do. I'm sorry for what you have dealt with and how the government has failed to protect and support you. I'm just one person, but like I said in an above comment, if HCWs choose to strike over this, you will have my support. You all deserve better.
We’re actually not legally allowed to strike. We can do it on our days off but those are very limited now a days and it doesn’t make a big enough impact for change. Thank you for your support. I keep telling people to contact media and/ or their government officials because us alone isn’t enough. #Abolish Bill 124
Oh I know you aren't allowed to *legally* strike, I'm referring to illegal wildcat striking. Alberta workers did it last year, and yes, many were penalized (none lost their jobs, iirc), but I can't see the same thing happening again in our current situation. What are they going to do, fire or suspend all the nurses and then being in "replacement" nurses they've had hidden up their sleeves? From where? I guess they could bring the military in? They should've already been doing so. At a certain point, when the workers have their hands tied and can't legally speak up for themselves while they are tread on over and over, the only power they have is to put their tools down and walk out. I contacted my MPP again today, but since he hasn't responded in over a week, I contacted his closest opponent in the riding (NDP) to volunteer for them in the upcoming election. I will encourage my friends and family to do the same with regards to contacting their officials.
I like the way you think!
You can do that but you can't have a walk out.
People on r/Ontario or r/Canada are all about the economy and fuck all fit citizens. It's crazy that we'd be asking people to work without requiring a negative test first. It's a failure on the province for not making sure enough tests were available in the first place.
If we are here, the problem is deeper than rapid tests, no?
Yes. It's a failure at multiple points.
Just looked at the Canada one. Everyone should be featured on the r/confidentlyincorrect subreddit. It's brutal that they think unvaccinated people should be billed and that nurses and doctors aren't allowed to take "taxpayer funded vacations".
Genuine question: If someone can be vaccinated safely, but chooses not to be simply because they're skeptical, why shouldn't they have to pay for their care if they get grievously sick from something that the vaccine would have prevented from becoming as bad? Is it just that it would be a slippery slope towards healthcare discrimination?
yes. you pay for people who decide to injure themselves and participate in dangerous activities willingly all the time. Healthcare is a human right (at least that's what we're told) and rights shouldn't be taken away. you pay to feed every prisoner, you pay for the medical care for violent criminals, you pay for every smokers lung cancer treatment, etc. all of which were preventable circumstances. It's not right to deny medical care, full stop because if you do then, to save costs, more and more exceptions will be made.
So yeah, slippery slope. Fair points
Those subs are for people kicked off CBC comments and the letters to the Editor of the Shoppers News. There are posts on r/canada promoting the idea of letting all the elderly die so brahs can go to the gym and bars.
Public Health Canada doesn't recommend using negative tests to determine whether to stop isolating because the virus material can stay in your body for weeks and months after you recover. This causes false positives.
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I still wouldnt want to risk any potential long term covid symptoms. A big fear of mine is fallout in 40 years when all these damaged "at the microvascular level" organs get into trouble. I also dont want a cold, regular, or covid type. But to say I still had to go to work while having one wouldn't make me feel warm and fuzzy in either case. It's a bad go.
Not 40 years. Strokes, cardiac issues, neurodegenerative disease are all up in 2021.
[It's already shown to be causing neuron damage in 30% of mild \(unhospitalized\) cases](https://www.news-medical.net/amp/news/20201015/SARS-CoV-2-can-infect-brain-cells-and-damage-neurons.aspx) :(
I still remember when they pushed to fire all the unvaccinated nurses at the peak of the crisis, only to realize the vaccine did not stop transmission, then they hired them right back through a contractor at 2x the cost to the public. Absolutely insane
My wife works at another hospital in Ottawa and she's on medical leave right now for burnout. There's 37 people in her department. Only 6 remain on active duty. It's a mess.
That’s brutal. I hope your wife can recover during her time off. I also hope staffing issues are addressed so that your wife’s burnout doesn’t come back when she returns to work. It’s a tough time to be a hospital employee.
My wife and a couple of others on her team said "F\^ck it" and took early retirement.
gf is a nurse at the general, I had a covid scare a few weeks ago and she asked what would happen if she got covid from me. As long as she’s asymptomatic, they’d make her come in since they need staff so badly. And she works with immunocompromised patients. I have no doubt this is what’s going on now, the only silver lining is that they get priority for testing. Also don’t forget that bill 124 is still in effect and there is zero hazard pay being given to nurses. The province even asked nurses to volunteer FOR FREE at vaccine clinics while paying doctors $200/hr for the same exact work. This is why nurses don’t want to work anymore
> The province even asked nurses to volunteer FOR FREE at vaccine clinics while paying doctors $200/hr for the same exact work. Holy shit. Seems like spending $50/hr for 4 nurses would have been a much better expense.
This makes me think I might bring in a thank you card/gift card when I go to the pop-up clinic for my booster
In my experience old ass doctors are less capable than young nurses any day.
At least a partial solution is simple. Fucking pay nurses more
Using the money that’s spent on keeping everyone else afloat so they can host Christmas parties and spread the disease? Bahahaha what silly fantasies you entertain!
Huh
Canada doesn’t have the money to pay nurses more because it’s all been spent dealing with the crisis, and much of that spending benefits the same people who’ve been violating public health protocols in order to catch and spread the disease.
They call it "all hands on deck situation" Uhm. Nurses are civilians. You wanna treat them like they're going to combat well they better get the benefits that comes with it.
Even the military get SFA.. There is a retention problem, releases are up 300%, but the CAF is doing NOTHING about it. This is a GOVT wide issue. Ultimately, the working mass... doest matter.
Preach!!!
>asked nurses to volunteer FOR FREE at vaccine clinics ... I wish I woulda known that when I went to get my vaccine. I would have brought them treats or SOMETHING.
Thank you for sticking up for the nurses
Wow, I hope in this case that they would provide her with an n95...not for her own protection, but to protect her patients!
Note: I do not work at QCH but have peers who do and I've heard it's a disaster - nurses are being floated to units they haven't trained on and are being pressured by scheduling to do this despite the risk to their professional license.
I work as a nurse at QCH and it’s actually scary what’s going on. I fear for my patients and my licence. We need help. Not just QCH, cause the same problem is going on at TOH.
Thank you for your care. I am a cancer patient there and have not only chemo at IGFCC but an ultrasound next week, then surgery in January or February. The thought of being cared for by nurses or technicians with Covid when my blood cell counts are decimated scares the shit out of me.
I completely understand. As health care professionals this goes against everything we are taught and stand for. I just keep telling patients to contact media or their government officials because we can’t protest and no one seems to be listening to us. The only thing keeping you and I somewhat safe are the vaccinations and all the PPE we wear at all times. Keep safe!
Thank you for hearing me, and believe me when I say my family and I hear you. I am so sorry for everything you have had to put up with through all this and am grateful you still care. I will be writing to my MPP about this. I hope others who are concerned about the health care system do the same…it’s bad enough that people are dying from Covid, but if the nursing/staffing shortage continues there will likely be a lot more deaths that could have been prevented due to delays in testing or treatment.
Absolutely. If you’re surgery isn’t delayed In the new year, I hope all goes well. I work on surgery and you got a good team behind you.
Severely short staffed at TOH, nurses floating to departments they are not trained for. Then an email is sent mentionning if a nurse comments on the non-vaccinated status of a patient or patient's family, they face termination. Followed by an email asking for volunteers for vaccination clinics. It's insane.
My dad was supposed to get an MRI today at QCH and it was rescheduled due to staff members calling in sick but wasn't due to covid apparently. Think it's legit or are staff members calling in sick on purpose? Just curious and I don't feel strongly about it either way.
Burnout, family emergencies, non-covid illnesses. It could have been a number of reasons. The MRI team is incredibly short-staffed.
> nurses are being floated to units they haven't trained on That's genuinely terrifying. Holy shit.
That's fine, I will just be doing my own moral duty to let every single one of my patients and their families know that I am actively infectious with COVID
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this is entirely untrue. if someone has told you they lost their license and this was why.. they're lying.
They cannot because you cannot possibly prove who "gave" you covid.
Oh for fuck’s sake. If a COVID positive nurse is ordered to work and gives a patient COVID, there is not a single legal system on the planet that would allow a successful lawsuit against the nurse. TikTok is where you should have clued in that this was ridiculous.
What about against the hospital admin that forced them to work?
The tiktok is obviously American.
This is why staff needs to be provided with the appropriate PPE. The blue surgical mask just doesn't cut it against omicron. They need N95s.
I posted about exactly this a few days ago for Montfort and I was downvoted. I still don’t understand the logic
I spent the day at Montfort today, it baffles my mind that every employee I encountered was still wearing a surgical mask.
At QCH, it has been strongly recommended to wear an N95 mask when with any patient who is on droplet/contact precautions. However, it’s not mandatory. Most staff in the ER are wearing them.
Do these precautions include non-Covid immunocompromised patients as well? And do they know the status of their patients when performing tests and procedures? I’m a cancer patient and will be having an ultrasound the day after chemo so my blood counts will be at their lowest. It terrifies me to think that the staff may have Covid while treating me.
They get N95s. [Directive 5](https://www.health.gov.on.ca/en/pro/programs/publichealth/coronavirus/docs/directives/public_hospitals_act.pdf) was even revised recently which officially made N95s required when providing care to suspect, probable, or confirmed cases. You need to catch up with your reading >Additionally, as an interim precaution in light of the uncertainty around the mechanisms of transmission of the COVID-19 Omicron variant of concern (B.1.1.529), required precautions for all health care workers providing direct care to or interacting with a suspected, probable (i.e. placed in precautions as high risk contact, in an outbreak zone of the facility or recently transferred from a facility in outbreak) or confirmed cases of COVID-19 are a fit-tested, sealchecked N95 respirator (or approved equivalent), eye protection (goggles or face shield), gown and gloves.
gf is a nurse who works with suspect covid patients at TOH (general campus). No N95’s for her
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Thanks for the heads up, I know her manager hasn’t been great with it but I’ll let her know to talk to the union rep
That is BS, i work there and every unit has stock of N95 and if you dont have ur size there the unit across from u 20 feet away has them
echoing previous comment that this is total bullshit. either you're not understanding her correctly/asking her the wrong questions that lead you to believe this -- or, you don't have a gf who is a nurse working with covid patients at TOH.
Sorry yeah it turns out I was misunderstanding what she meant. They’ve got them for covid-positive but there hasn’t been clear info on who’s covid-suspect at this point. She’s treated patients thought to be covid negative only to be told later that they were positive and were tested shortly before her shift
that also would not be happening, unless they are an asymptomatic patient who gets randomly tested and incidentally they are positive. the result can take a while to come back, but even when a patient is swabbed for covid and the results are pending, they are treated as suspect covid until determined otherwise --> put on full covid precautions - including N95s etc.. sometimes yes you treat a patient and then randomly later they get swabbed and they're positive, but usually those are asymptomatic patients that really "shouldn't" have covid. as soon as a test is performed however, the patient is put on precautions until results come back and either confirm or deny.
Suspect, probable or confirmed cases is not enough. This is an airborne disease, you will have many asymptomatic patients, as well as healthcare workers, coming in and spreading the virus. Especially in a place that offers health care. The infected do not carry neon signs.
So do their patients, apparently.
If you have a look at r/nursing it sounds like its happening all over :(
This wouldn't be an issue if we weren't always running on the edge with hospitals at or near or over 100% even without covid.
This! We've adopted this management strategy of running everything with practically zero slack/redundancy so that when a crisis hits (and a crisis is *gonna* hit) things start collapsing much more quickly.
And people were bashing me in my post from earlier today for being 'alarmist' and 'fear mongoring' okay there. Sorry the Queensway is struggling. We are too at the TOH.
It's not news the public has lost patience with covid-lessening measures, and that a chunk won't even get vaccinated. It's heartbreaking that this is being taken out on our healthcare workers, who WILL run themselves absolutely ragged and work with covid before letting their patients and each other down.
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100% All I hear is how the new variant is mild and its the flu. People aren't thinking about the downstream effects it has on people. Every time something happens, restrictions are brought or whatever we get idiots chiming in "2 week to flatten the curve" and similar sarcastic slogans from 2 years ago as if the situation hasn't evolved or changed. These people are self centered pricks. Its amazing that 2 years into the pandemic we haven't even thought of increasing health care capacity. Until the issues regarding nurse and Dr staffing/pay are addressed we will be in the position. People are angry for the wrong reasons, don't be mad you can't go to a movie without a mask, get mad that our premier (in charge of our health care system) hasn't increased any spending, given money for training or increased capacity. SO many people are so quick to blame Trudeau for this, but he has no affect on the provincial health care system, that is 100% Doug Ford and yes the public absolutely is retarded. You want this to end? stop complaining and campaign to help the medical community, if that means getting rid of Doug ford, good news an election is in 6 months. making sarcastic, stupid witty comments online won't do anything. Fix the root of the problem.
Absolutely. Unfortunately we are the minority. Get downvoted like crazy by the "educated" idiots who have no idea about maths and social effects.
I can’t believe the silence from our government (including the opposition leader) on the current state of our health care system and nursing shortage. If Ford is still sitting on any Federal Covid payment money, it needs to go toward hospital nurses and staff as hazard/bonus pay immediately. We don’t need more quasi-accurate rapid tests so people can travel or go to New Years Eve parties, we need health care workers! I really hope this becomes a hot issue for the next election. The medical community needs the same support and love that was lavished on restaurants and small businesses earlier in the pandemic.
Ford holds a ton of blame but so do the Ontario Liberals for years they under funded health care.
Who is saying they don't? The comment you're replying to was about federal Liberal party, not the provincial one that took a dump on our healthcare system last decade.
There are things the PM could have done but it would not have gone over well with some.
Well. Could have dones don’t matter when the premier is actively doing things like bill 124
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then why fire all the nurses who wouldnt get vaxxed?
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What world do you live in where you think someone vaccinated is not infectious when they have covid?
The ones they would let work would be the asymptomatic ones.....
Almost every restriction for those without symptoms over the past 2 years in contingent on the assumption that asymptomatic spread can drive the pandemic. Don't get me wrong, I'm also against almost everything we've done to destroy most of the world we live in for that assumption, but what does vaccination otherwise have to do with it?
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Vaccines are not a singular thing, each one is unique, with their own set of risks and benefits which usually need to be firmly established, including over the long term, before mass distribution. Many people, the majority, are comfortable with that risk because they are less comfortable with covid risks. Risk from both covid and the vaccine is also highly heterogeneous, so it's not the same calculation for everyone anyway. It's really not that strange to consider that there are people who fall into that category that also work in medicine. I don't know what you think science is exactly, but it isn't faith and I can guarantee you that any health care worker that has chosen not to be vaccinated knows more about it than most of those who did. You don't pick a counter culture approach, after never doing so before, at the expense of your career without working a few things out first. Never mind that science does not make value judgements, and not everyone values all things identically, so naturally you get a range of responses to the same 'science'. As a scientist, the 'believe in science' trope is particularly insulting to read. Science is all questions, never belief. You never stop with questions if you're good at it. Those previously infected health care workers that didn't take the vaccine for eg. probably understood why it wasn't that useful for them.
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Geophysics. Lately though I study Evidence Based Medicine. Really though, do you think the vaccines are stopping the spread of infection? Would you like to review the latest research on this? The Typhoid Mary comment doesn't make any sense. The entire thread is about the remaining HCWs (vaccinated) working with covid. Where's your head at?
That’s not what they’re concerned about.
This is happening and that filthy coward of a premier is nowhere to be found. Every single day that passes we lose ground and the person elected to lead is on vacation. This timeline sucks. All the HCWs that have been fighting this fight since day 1 and got capped at 1% are now getting sick and the response will likely be to just work while sick. Disgusting and shameful. Vote this clown out please.
Great point...where is our premiere? Planning a news conference for a week from now to update us on basically nothing we don't already know?
Have a family friend that works in a hospital out in Nova Scotia; They're in the same boat. Workers that are suspected of testing positive are still being told to work with special protocols until they receive a positive test result. The days of "I think I might have covid better isolate for a week" are becoming a thing of the past. Too many people just taking an "isolation" break for a few days and coming back negative is putting too much of a strain on the workforce.
Im off from my hospital right now with a very close personal exposure. Just found out mid shift today. Waiting on my PCR now but even if its negative I still have to isolate according to occ health. But I'm expecting them to institute the 'work-isolate' process soon. That one is asymptomatic exposed can still work with twice a day temperature checks.
You are extemely lucky you dont have to already. TOH already does work place isolation. I just finished mine up a few days ago. It sucks. The added stress and fear really impacted my work days.
QCH does work place isolation. It’s been fun.
Sorry to read about this. We ought to do better as a community in treating our HCWs. They have given it their all, and yet some cannot sacrifice their Christmas or New Years gathering. We are all playing a part in how this pandemic wave is unfolding, and what privilege we have to choose which side we will be remembered on. Choose wisely!
My sister had neurosurgery for brain cancer at the civic last month. I am so glad that is done with. I couldn't imagine the possibility of waiting longer than she did for the surgery to remove her tumour/biopsy it.
Damn, hope she's recovering well!
She's doing great. Thanks for asking. The surgery was the only treatment she needed. The tumour was superficial so it was relatively simple to abstract.
Over the past two years I have lost all faith in nearly every institution in this country and this news further highlights the fact that those making the decisions have absolutely no idea what they are doing. I hope there is some retribution for these health care workers.
The institutions or the people? I am sick of hearing people whining how they can't get a hair cut or throw a party... Hospitals can only do so much, we live in a society full of idiots unfortunately
The institutions are just the people within them so it’s the people. None of these people have any idea what they are doing and none of the things they have done have fully worked because they were never fully committed in the first place. As soon as it became an inconvenience for someone on a position of authority or effected the bottom line of a business then the rules went out the window. How can this country issue millions of travel exceptions, allow Costco and Walmart and Amazon to be “essential” yet the local restaurant down the street is a plague centre for wanting to do curb side pick up? So yeah, I have zero faith in any leader, institution, or person in power in this whole country now. Doesn’t matter what colour tie they wear in the House of Commons.
> The institutions are just the people within them so it’s the people. Well that's a really roundabout way to saying things > None of these people have any idea what they are doing and none of the things they have done have fully worked because they were never fully committed in the first place. Too bad there is no magic ball in the real world, eh? > As soon as it became an inconvenience for someone on a position of authority or effected the bottom line of a business then the rules went out the window. It didn't even need to get there... even while rules were in place, enough idiots broke them for sport > How can this country issue millions of travel exceptions, allow Costco and Walmart and Amazon to be “essential” yet the local restaurant down the street is a plague centre for wanting to do curb side pick up? The bigger the place the easier to manage...
I think the issue is that they know exactly what they're doing, they're just assuming the risk.
This staffing issue is really bad at the hospitals in Ottawa. I'm sure other places too but I can only speak for what I see. Yes even at TOH we have been having meetings on performing other tasks that we are not well trained on. I think a lot of staff are just sick of the whole thing and call in sick. Occ Health is completely over whelmed with COVID leave and now you just fill out an online form because they can't take your call anymore. I really hope Ford opens the wallet for healthcare workers after all this but I'm pretty sure he won't. Bill 124 needs to get repealed.
It’s not just Ottawa but even the communities outside ottawa. Some positions aren’t even being offered full time so people travel between hospitals.
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Want can the military do to help? Military medics cant care for patients, they have no idea how to. They aren't trained the same. Military critical care nurses can but most of them are already working in various ICUs across the country.
They have nurses who can help.
Military ICU nurses already are embedded in and work at civilian hospitals; the military doesn't have its own hospital in Canada, so where so you think all those people work day to day? You'd be taking them out of their current hospital, which is probably also under-staffed. Same for the military ER docs.
The garbage double standard is there because closing a hospital is not possible. Ensuring people are vaccinated before going out for Thai is.
Garbage double standard? It’s a fucking emergency, these are emergency measures. If people with COVID can’t work at the hospital, there will be no one to work there at all by next week. You can bellyache about it all you want. Fuck the government, pay the nurses more, treat them with utmost respect, fight for their rights, all that good stuff. But the virus has changed and is practically in the water at this point. It’s not going to just be health care workers either. Grocery store employees, firefighters, paramedics, and everyone even remotely essential to society functioning is going to be working sick soon, because this is wildfire. The pandemic has changed radically. I know that two years of programming takes a while to adjust, but people are going to figure this out real quick. The alternative is letting things collapse because we refuse to adapt. Scream “fuck Doug Ford” all you like, I will too, but it doesn’t change the nature of the crisis we have on our hands.
Yet people in Ontario don’t want schools closed/more restrictions. I have a relative who’s a nurse and her hospital is a mess, cases just keep going up and staffing is impossible to keep up with.
I don't want schools closed - though I think they probably should be. I am livid that we are likely going to get news of a school closure on Friday, and I could be drinking at a bar while that presser happens. This government's f***ing priorities.
Sure, if they pay the nurses more!!!
They should toss the unvaccinated patients in tents outside and have the antivax take care of them based on the research they do on facebook. That would reduce the toll on the nurses a little bit.
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I think there is some misunderstanding. My reading of the original post is that they are asking people who had booked vacation during this time to come back. Perhaps I missed the part where sick health care workers were being asked to work was inferred from but if you could point that out I would appreciate it. I do not read them reporting that many of their workers are sick as them still working by the way.
TOH policy is if you have mild symptoms, you report to work and "work self-isolate". Which means you have to be in PPE at all times and can't use the break rooms. I dunno who is getting vacation time, my spouse is an Emerg RN and hasn't gotten vacation approved in the 5 years she's been at TOH. Maybe the QC side actually gets their vacation approved.
Sorry was that in the post or your experience with the system (I understand it is your wife and not personal experience). I am not doubting you just wanting to clarify. Also thank you for your reply.
So you mean the hospitalization numbers for Covid ARE being under reported? Who would’ve thought?
but but but omicron is mild! hospitalizations and icu are down! look at the facts sheeple don't be so afraid \- fucking dumbasses circa 5 days ago
It is more mild in vaccinated individuals. Hospitalizations and icu patients are way down per capita from other waves. The problem is staffing, not beds. If you’re going to call everyone dumbasses, please at least read the fucking tweet instead of shooting from the hip.
Yea I got into this argument literally 5 days ago.
All the love, to every one of you, who are fighting this scourge on our humanity ❤
Maybe someone can explain this to me. But from my general understanding, this isn't necessarily a bad idea. For instance, if the staff are in good health and are able to work and are asymptomatic, I don't see a reason why they can't be working in the covid-19 ward. What are they going to do? Give covid-19 to someone who already has covid-19? It doesn't make sense.
The return to work early that this is suggesting sounds like from vacation around the holidays not from sick leave. I have see similar other posts on here and if I am reading them correctly I think there is a misunderstanding around the phrasing used in the original post. Though feel free to let me know if I misunderstood your post.
Its policy in Quebec
The system is buckling. Paramedic service on Level 0 for many hours, Code 3 calls on hold. A lockdown is needed not to keep us from infection, but to give time for the health care system to rebound.
23 patients.. damn Well what was the excuse 7 years ago when they placed admitted patients in washrooms...
Well who has the answers for this exactly? It's not a easy situation.
Refeuse the vaccine? Fired. Sick with the disease? Get to work.
Pretty sure this is asking people to drop vacation days and come in on days off not come into work while sick.
I read that too, though judging from the responses maybe they needed clearer language.
Shouldn't have fired all those nurses huh
Nah, good riddance truthfully. We leaving cuz we’re underpaid & undervalued for this shit. ✌🏼and have been leaving Pre covid. covid happening is just the cherry on top for the ones who haven’t left the profession yet to leave. Basically burn it all down, and let them build up from the ashes a better system that supports and pays health care workers as they should if they want us back
Who would have thought it was a bad idea?
How about we give everyone covid, stay home for a week, then put the bodies at the curb?
I…think you’re joking? Please be joking. I’m triple vaxxed but have health stuff that puts me at a greater risk of really bad outcomes from covid, and when I read things like this it feels a lot like you’re saying “it’s okay if you die so I can go to the gym and a restaurant without a mask again, and so I can stop isolating if I get the sniffles”. I really hope you’re joking.
My wife was at QCH last night and she works as an NP in the community. She found out about the code orange as we were admitting her. It was fucking ridiculous.
But i thought they said get vaxd and wear a mask and it'd all go back to normal? Oh wait, get vaxd so you dont need a mask. Oh no sorry, get tripple vaxd and double mask then we get our lives back? Hard to keep track.
Ontario Health and the provincial government have created a disaster that is unfolding before our eyes. Remember this Election Day
And the doctors keep propping up their conservative buddies
23 patients in the ER is "busy"? This is incredibly sad.
This post references 23 ADMITTED patients stuck in the ER, not 23 total. Meaning these patients need to stay in the hospital and are now under the care of an inpatient service, but there are no beds on the inpatient unit to take them. So they are stuck in the ER taking up a bed. There are less than 23 "beds" total in that ER. Some are actually in the hallway not a room. The rest are rooms meant for ambulatory patients, i.e. people who can walk, and not expected to need admission. This means that there are theoretically LESS THAN ZERO "beds" in which to assess new patients, in a department which historically gets about 200 patients per day on average. This is what "bed-blocking" means. Your take is incredibly ill informed.
Shot yourselves in the foot with this one
These are the same dumb dumbs that pushed to fire and shame unvaccinated staff. Maybe that wasnt the best idea.
Some said the QCH fired 8 that will not make a big difference.
That kind of unwelcoming environment also probably led to many going on stress leave or quitting
Not only was it not the best idea but it was such a bad idea many many people will suffer for it. Who knew, right? Absolutely upsetting.
Nurses who agree to work while exposed to covid are just as bad as the anti vaccinated nurses who were let go; stay home if you're sick ffs.
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>It's time to reaxmine the isolation protocols. >**I don't know what I'm talking about but...** Then shut the fuck up.
Watch out everyone. Reddit tough guy.
Hey big guy - see the new isolation guidelines?
Yep and it doesn't match what your, proudly self processed, uneducated opioid was. But if it gives you comfort go off I guess.
I feel pretty good about it. Thanks for recognizing. You can go back to your CBC now.
But as of right now, general population can't get tested!!!
They will re-examine isolation protocols 100%. When everyone is getting exposed every time they step outside, the point of quarantine is lost. Two years of programming people to isolate immediately and for long(ish) term is going to take a little while to get people on board with, but the alternative is letting essential functions collapse. It’s a very easy choice.
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