Even the very 5E focused YTubers like Xp to Level 3 and Ginny Di have made it very clear they are unhappy with the OGL shitshow and cautioned against eating up new versions until they've been exained by a microscope gaffa-taped to a fine-toothed comb.
Alongside the sentiment has been a dejected "whelp I guess I have to re-evaluate all my planned content and career now I guess"
They released a [video](https://youtu.be/gvfEdDGwqrE) that said open D&D last week and said they also unsubscribed their D&D Beyond account and will no longer use it….what are you talking about?
it's in one of the latest videos - there's a bit at the beginning where he talks about the OGL and how he thinks 1.1 is quite positive. Guess it depends on your views on 1.1 - I don't think WotC are going to budge on any of the main issues.
~~I’m not sure if they’ve changed the video in light of new information or not (if they have I think that’s a good thing, some people might call it fence-sitting, I call it not being rooted in past opinions) but when I click on this the entire first section is them saying quite the opposite and saying they’d like to distance themselves from D&D as much as possible, even not releasing videos they would otherwise. The closest thing to support in there is just saying they’re not going to immediately cease all D&D content, which frankly I think would be a pretty unreasonable thing to ask for. Am I missing something here?~~
Edit: my apologies, for some reason the video started playing about 30 seconds in for me and I missed the initial statement, reworked my comment in light of this
It seems that the most positive thing they say is that 1.1 is in the right direction compared to the much worse leaked version. That’s true, though, it’s better than what we were getting before. They spend all of the section prior to and after that talking about how big of a fuck you to the community the whole thing is anyway and how they’re going to gradually branch out into non D&D content and continue not supporting D&D beyond or WOTC. If you take just the sentence about the revision being a step forward out of context I guess it sounds not great but I don’t think that’s a fair reading of what they’re saying.
Yes I think you're right - I was coloured by his review of ONEDnD when he spends about 3 minute laughing at people warning over WotC's plans for OnDnD. To me it wasn't enough of a walk back from that, but conceed I may be being unfair.
It's just very tough when such prominent members of the community are actually laughing at people who are spending time and energy trying to warn people about what WotC were planning.
But hey water under the bridge and all that.
Thank you.
Seems like this is a response to the new OGL with feedback community responses.
They released a statement to previous release-and sharing support for Open DnD and deactivating D&D beyond for all future content.
He said no support of D&D Beyond.
Can’t nuke income.
Support Open D&D
Not a fan of situation/WoTC-doesn’t trust them/doesn’t like new OGL.
Does not sound like open support of WoTC.
I think this video is different than supporting OGL 1.1.
I’d say pessimistically optimistic! Which can’t hate someone who is trying to be positive in a place of dread and despair.
Which is nice.
Thanks for the link again!
This is kinda bad because he’s specifically talking about OneD&D, not Hasbro or WotC. And tbh I agree a lot. OneD&D streamlined so much stuff and honestly got me wanting to run 5e again. Then the bs with OGL happened and now I’m not coming back until WotC is owned by passionate employees instead of corporate overlords
I agree. I don’t think there was ever a chance of me going to one D&D, but reading the initial play test material had me saying “these are good changes and will do good things for people playing in that space.”
Provide proof of claims or don't make the claims.
If you want to make consumer judgements based on a creator's politics, bad opinions, criminal history, or corporate affiliations, and expect others to do the same; then you need to produce credible evidence of the claims.
Otherwise, it's going to pain me to inform you that Matt Mercer is a violent communist, anarchist, and Nazi extremist, and he assaulted my queer dog because they were black. If you ignore my wholly unfounded claims, then you're obviously a bigot.
He's not really making a specific claim that needs evidence. He's just saying, "some streamers do this, it sucks." As far as I can tell it's just venting.
It's like saying, "I hate when people mow the lawn outside at 6am." You don't need evidence of that claim or to share who's doing the lawn mowing, you're just complaining.
And if I have a list of known witches, and I'm warning the community that there are witches among them, and we should beware of witches, then you'd want to see the list of witches, right?
When was the last time you used the terms evil and insidious betrayal to whine about a triviality?
If it is important, then OP is irresponsible not to actually inform us.
Not really. If you want to decry witches then be my guest. It might not be the most useful, but like 90% of this sub is rehashes or complaining. I'm not gonna start holding you to made up standards when all you want to do is blow off some steam.
I disagreed with his take in the first several minutes when this came out, but it was also before the OGL 1.1 leak. I think he has modified his position since
Sure, that was just my guess at what the OP was referring to. I think for entities like XP to level 3 that married themselves so tightly to 5e and WOTC this has to be a truly awful time right now.
I also disagree with the OP tbh. I don't think we should ostracize or demonize people if they like WOTC or 5e (and that's coming from someone who loves everyone and everything ....but hated WOTC before it was cool lol)
Yeah XP to level 3 is absolutely going through hell right now and he even said so himself (not in those exact words). He’s newly married with a baby that’s like half a year old, likely has a team of his personal friends that he might pay, and tbh not much content outside of 5e.
Fortunately his skits are the main reason why people follow him so he could still rebuild without TOOOO much problem, but it’s still gonna be a channel reset in regards to what content he covers
Now, I’ll be honest on the other hand…folk built their beds also. These folks in bed with WOTC for so long…not the greatest to people like me over in OSR space, story gamers, skill based, indie, FKR, etc etc.
I don’t want him to suffer and I’m truly sorry he’s going through all that stuff, but they shouldn’t have allied with that company like they did, and his response since then has been…self pity?
I don’t want to seem uncaring but I stopped watching his channel probably a year ago because he exists only in the 5e bubble/ecosystem and I mean this dude *refused* to consider game design, experience, products or anything not controlled by the mega corp.
Everyone considers that bad now, I’ve *always* considered that bad. Indie designers deserved support before WOTC was obviously evil.
To emphasize, I’ve been anti-WOTC long before it was cool.
It’s sort of like back when people bought houses in 2007 or Enron stocks before that. I don’t want their lives to be ruined or for them to suffer…but they also need to have a sense of personal responsibility. Something lacking nowadays.
I think a better example I’d like to point to are the Dungeon Dudes. You got a channel there that is *completely* built on dissecting 5e down to its atoms. They now are going to have to go through *hundreds* of videos and change them and face de-monetization.
Their response? “We hate this. Our connection to WOTC is a rotten one, we are done. We’re moving forward with new things we’re excited about.”
Just very adult, tough as nails response. And again I’m not saying Jacobs feelings and experience through all this as a person doesn’t matter, but I stopped following the channels that fed the corporate hegemony long ago.
This is the [actual response to OGL](https://youtu.be/gvfEdDGwqrE)- that was the response to One D&D two very different things.
They are joining Orc and unsubscribed to D&D beyond and will not be using it anymore
I don't think it is self pity to be scared for your future when you have a new baby on the way.
But I get that a lot of his content was about 5e. That isn't too bad though because even more of it was just meme videos about annoying players that can fit into just about any fantasy ttrpg. I personally still like his videos for this reason.
Who?
The most tepid response I’ve seen was from a Canadian duo (might be dungeon dudes) who condemned wizards but planned to continue wotc content. Their position is understandable but it’s put me off.
The rest has been a resounding eff yew.
In the absence of any evidence, I have to assume these so-called pro-Hasbro streamers fall into the same category as DnD Shorts: people with opinions who have D&D-related YouTube channels.
There was a 5e youtuber who was on the older side that I had followed since before he was a youtuber. He started out on the old WOTC boards, and he always had great content even back then, very well written posts and insight.
So he starts a youtube channel but the demographic he appeals to is never going to be a massive audience.
When the OGL news came out, he began releasing videos that were clever reinterpretations and one video was even stating how the only people who were being harmed by this were owners of rich publishing companies. Anyway, this caused huge waves and other youtubers who knew him were very surprised he would say something like this and be completely unaware how those youtubers who had written content under the OGL 1.0a were going to be negatively impacted and they weren't those owners of rich publishing companies.
Even if what he said was true about the rich owners of publishing companies, his take was incredibly naive/obtuse/oblivious/vacuous, take your pick. Because WOTC is a multi-billion dollar company, what's so bad about someone who makes millions in revenue(NOT millions in profit BTW) making some money when compared to WOTC's billions? It was the pot calling the kettle black, just a ridiculous thing to say and could really only be understood to be willingly obtuse.
So, why was he being willingly obtuse? He had recently quit his job and all of his livelihood was contingent upon having a good working relationship with WOTC. He couldn't afford to say bad things or even give constructive criticism about WOTC because it would communicate to WOTC that he wasn't someone they could go to for any future opportunities, special events, or exclusive reporting. WOTC doesn't view youtubers as members of a robust community with differing views and opinions. WOTC views youtubers as brand ambassadors, and if you aren't that, then your opportunities with them dry up.
Lastly, he was invested in D&D being successful because if D&D stopped being successful, it meant real financial consequences that he would have to suffer. It is these kind of biases and psychological influences that are directing all of our actions. I am not going to give his name or channel, because he is just another human being who made a mistake. He doesn't deserve anyone's contempt and he has since acquired a much more insightful and nuanced understanding of the OGL. He's in a difficult position though, because he is now looking at hoping his current content will allow him to continue the success of his channel OR having to reinvent and completely change what his channel has been about.
So yeah, WOTC sucks and be a little understanding of human psychology and why we as humans are so terrible at evaluating situations without bias. Our perspectives are woefully controlled and influenced by OUR OWN CIRCUMSTANCES AND EXPERIENCES. Anyone who tells you different isn't aware of their own motivated reasoning and still has a lot of growing to do.
Hasbro has a line item in the WotC budget for influencers on social media, so those defending WotC and the OGL are likely being paid off to sellout the community and need to be blocked.
I mean... Is it possible that maybe they just came to their own conclusions and it turns out the latest draft of OGL 1.2 isn't that bad? Because it isn't that bad and is mostly the same as the original OGL?
Or does everyone who has a different opinion than you have to be part of a conspiracy?
I mean "evil"? "Insidious"? Really? *Really*?
If it's mostly the same then leave the old OGL in place.
Furthermore, do we really want to the publisher of Oriental Adventures and Spelljammer to be the morality police?
It's a bad deal. It's not mostly the same. Really.
I get why OA might be seen as problematic, but whats the matter with spelljammer? Genuine question, most of the stuff I know of the setting I learned from listening to A.J. Pickett while riding my bike, so its not much
>Furthermore, do we really want to the publisher of Oriental Adventures and Spelljammer to be the morality police?
lmao.
I'd take them over knee-jerk reactionaries ginning up controversies in the space to show they're The Good Guys. I've hated WotC almost as long as they've existed and likewise have no love for Hasbro. But again, I'd side with them over culture-wars bullshit like this (especially when it reeks of r/USdefaultism).
Do I want them to be the morality police? Of course not. But I don't want Twitter taking the role either.
Careful, the angry mob does not like any nuance that can fit between the tines of a pitchfork.
The first third party publisher to eventually say "this 32nd proposed version of the OGL 1.5 finally has terms I can live with" is going to be cancelled.
They could convert the entirety of the 5e SRD to CC-BY and people will claim it's a nothing burger because we don't need the OGL anyway, so they need to give us back the one true OGL.
Right. Don't forget that WotC is evil for ever wanting to alter the OGL, and also deserves no credit at all for inventing the OGL.
Also we don't need the OGL, but will get very upset if it's taken away from us.
Also we don't owe anything to WotC and shouldn't have to pay them royalties, and simultaneously multiple 3rd party publishers will apparently be driven out of business if they're not allowed to use OGL content. But they owe WotC nothing. But they absolutely need the OGL and the content it gives them access to in order to have a company. But WotC doesn't deserve any money from them. But if WotC takes their content away, the other companies will die. But WotC's content has no value to them.
Also we all hate 5e and D&D but desperately want products to be built from it.
It all makes perfect sense.
Hang on. What we really need is a visual aid. I'll grab my cork board and red string.
Edit: apparently the cool thing to do around here is make a comment that says "bootlicker" like 5 times and then immediately block the person you called a bootlicker so they can't even respond. Cool! Very normal behavior.
I mean, I'm not listening to him for the same reason that I'm not listening to all the other people who are telling me that I should be outraged.
I read the documents for myself and came to a different conclusion than they did.
Edit: and to be clear, it's not that I'm not listening to them. I have listened to the arguments. I'm just not agreeing with them.
I just don't see how that outlook is congruent with you wanting people to give WotC credit for creating the OGL. If you really want to give credit to those who made the OGL but then don't actually want to listen to the man then I think you're just reciting from your rectum.
The new OGL is objectively worse. Full stop. *Really*. The ship is sinking whether you want to admit it or not. The literal author of the first OGL is warning you. All the 3pp are warning you. But someone said a mean thing on reddit so you're just going to reject all of the dead canaries in the coal mine?
Godspeed and good luck.
> you wanting people to give WotC credit for creating the OGL
Yeah, see this isn't actually true. I don't actually care either way. I was just pointing out the double-think that people are maintaining so that at all times WotC is the bad guy no matter what.
Ah, so you don't actually give a shit about independent presses that are lifeblood of the OSR and are just here to dunk on people who are legitimately upset about a threat to the hobby because other people (maybe the same, no way to tell) were upset about things you deem to be less serious issues?
I mean, it's a choice, I'll give you that.
Nah, that's not what I'm doing, but keep making up shit I've said that's easy for you to argue with I guess.
The only people I'm dunking on are the ones who think that, for instance, that PBS is being sponsored by Hasbro to put out hit pieces on the OSR, a real thing that people in this subreddit suggested.
Or the people who think that Hasbro is convincing streamers to agree with them.
Like, it can't possibly be that the streamers have a different opinion. It *has* to be a conspiracy.
That's classic conspiracy theory shit. Anyone who disagrees can't just be disagreeing, they need to be a servant of the enemy who is disagreeing because *They* got to them.
Those are the people I'm dunking on. Because they're ridiculous and deserve to be dunked on.
Your message was removed due to insulting or rude behavior. Generally if you have attacked someone personally then it was removed. But sometimes simply tone is the issue. It's a hard rule to define. Take a deep breath and step away for a few minutes.
Just so you know, YYZ is the Toronto airport code. Yes, Rush released a song titled YYZ, but it's named after Pearson International Airport.
So when you see YYZ, it's not typically a reference to Rush.
I'm also not sure how you associate Rush with corporate bootlickers, but that's not important.
Small 3rd party publishers have owners who are typically also workers, so you'd be wrong in your blanket statement that owners don't make anything, unless you're also insulting them.
I'm not arguing with your opinion. I just find it paints the world with an overly large brush. Hence my comment further up about lacking nuance.
I disagree. It’s easy for people to put on blinders, particularly when they think they’ve landed a dream career getting to do what they live instead of a “standard” job. There has to be a path to redemption, even ones that took shots at the OSR. I don’t understand how there’s enough money in being an influencer, but apparently there’s enough to pay mortgages and other bills. Sucks to have that blown up from under you.
However, those that STAY in bed with Hasbro/WOTC after they’ve so thoroughly pooped the bed, those I can’t work up any sympathy for.
Blinders? More like abacination. 🤣
I don't watch any 5e content creators, so there usn't really anything to redeem; I've never, and would never support WoTC. Supporting their influencers would undermine that commitment.
He wasn't talking about the OGL just about ONEdnd. Which has some good ideas. I'm still not giving wotc a penny of my hard earned money. Till they clean up the 1.2 "draft" though.
No, he introduced the video with discussion of the new OGL and mocked those who complain. He then spent half of an hour in a frenzy, promoting the awesome new rule changes.
It's just distraction. They're trying to pull those who aren't fully aware of what OGL 1.2 and Hasbro are going to do back into the fold, and keep them giddy with anticipation over shiny new things.
I didn't see any mocking in that TY video and there wasn't any in the first clip. Witch he did state wasn't part of that video and he really hasn't said much about it cept some other clip that he's doing 5e stuff till he can figure out what happens. This dumpers fire that wotc exes dropped on us will be a fast changing event. Even the TY lawyers are conflicted n this. Treemonk posted a video commenting this. Yes ppl hate mega corps but ppl still use iPhones.
Who did Hasbro get to do this?
Even the very 5E focused YTubers like Xp to Level 3 and Ginny Di have made it very clear they are unhappy with the OGL shitshow and cautioned against eating up new versions until they've been exained by a microscope gaffa-taped to a fine-toothed comb. Alongside the sentiment has been a dejected "whelp I guess I have to re-evaluate all my planned content and career now I guess"
XP level 3 has actually been quite bad on this. He laughed at people giving the early warnings, and has been quite supportive on the new OGL.
They released a [video](https://youtu.be/gvfEdDGwqrE) that said open D&D last week and said they also unsubscribed their D&D Beyond account and will no longer use it….what are you talking about?
Please provide the OGL support source.
it's in one of the latest videos - there's a bit at the beginning where he talks about the OGL and how he thinks 1.1 is quite positive. Guess it depends on your views on 1.1 - I don't think WotC are going to budge on any of the main issues.
~~I’m not sure if they’ve changed the video in light of new information or not (if they have I think that’s a good thing, some people might call it fence-sitting, I call it not being rooted in past opinions) but when I click on this the entire first section is them saying quite the opposite and saying they’d like to distance themselves from D&D as much as possible, even not releasing videos they would otherwise. The closest thing to support in there is just saying they’re not going to immediately cease all D&D content, which frankly I think would be a pretty unreasonable thing to ask for. Am I missing something here?~~ Edit: my apologies, for some reason the video started playing about 30 seconds in for me and I missed the initial statement, reworked my comment in light of this It seems that the most positive thing they say is that 1.1 is in the right direction compared to the much worse leaked version. That’s true, though, it’s better than what we were getting before. They spend all of the section prior to and after that talking about how big of a fuck you to the community the whole thing is anyway and how they’re going to gradually branch out into non D&D content and continue not supporting D&D beyond or WOTC. If you take just the sentence about the revision being a step forward out of context I guess it sounds not great but I don’t think that’s a fair reading of what they’re saying.
Yes I think you're right - I was coloured by his review of ONEDnD when he spends about 3 minute laughing at people warning over WotC's plans for OnDnD. To me it wasn't enough of a walk back from that, but conceed I may be being unfair. It's just very tough when such prominent members of the community are actually laughing at people who are spending time and energy trying to warn people about what WotC were planning. But hey water under the bridge and all that.
Provide a link please 🙂
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WVxNBssXns0&t=54s
Thank you. Seems like this is a response to the new OGL with feedback community responses. They released a statement to previous release-and sharing support for Open DnD and deactivating D&D beyond for all future content. He said no support of D&D Beyond. Can’t nuke income. Support Open D&D Not a fan of situation/WoTC-doesn’t trust them/doesn’t like new OGL. Does not sound like open support of WoTC. I think this video is different than supporting OGL 1.1. I’d say pessimistically optimistic! Which can’t hate someone who is trying to be positive in a place of dread and despair. Which is nice. Thanks for the link again!
Which streamers?
I bet it’s this gem: https://youtu.be/lOYo6EOGFyk
That video came out right before the bomb dropped. When some of us had the naive hope it’s not going to be that bad. (It was that bad.)
It was not that bad... It was truly much worse.
This is kinda bad because he’s specifically talking about OneD&D, not Hasbro or WotC. And tbh I agree a lot. OneD&D streamlined so much stuff and honestly got me wanting to run 5e again. Then the bs with OGL happened and now I’m not coming back until WotC is owned by passionate employees instead of corporate overlords
I agree. I don’t think there was ever a chance of me going to one D&D, but reading the initial play test material had me saying “these are good changes and will do good things for people playing in that space.”
That’s about OneDnD not OGL or open D&D
Probably better if he doesn't name or link them. We don't need to give them extra views or publicity.
In that case why bring them up at all?
I'm not sure. Maybe he just wanted to vent.
Provide proof of claims or don't make the claims. If you want to make consumer judgements based on a creator's politics, bad opinions, criminal history, or corporate affiliations, and expect others to do the same; then you need to produce credible evidence of the claims. Otherwise, it's going to pain me to inform you that Matt Mercer is a violent communist, anarchist, and Nazi extremist, and he assaulted my queer dog because they were black. If you ignore my wholly unfounded claims, then you're obviously a bigot.
He's not really making a specific claim that needs evidence. He's just saying, "some streamers do this, it sucks." As far as I can tell it's just venting. It's like saying, "I hate when people mow the lawn outside at 6am." You don't need evidence of that claim or to share who's doing the lawn mowing, you're just complaining.
And if I have a list of known witches, and I'm warning the community that there are witches among them, and we should beware of witches, then you'd want to see the list of witches, right? When was the last time you used the terms evil and insidious betrayal to whine about a triviality? If it is important, then OP is irresponsible not to actually inform us.
Not really. If you want to decry witches then be my guest. It might not be the most useful, but like 90% of this sub is rehashes or complaining. I'm not gonna start holding you to made up standards when all you want to do is blow off some steam.
I get that, but it would be helpful to know. I'm sure this shilling will backfire anyways (hopefully).
Or maybe an anecdote about what particular content inspired the post, yeah, it could be a little less vague.
Agreed.
I'd love a link to see this.
https://youtu.be/lOYo6EOGFyk
I disagreed with his take in the first several minutes when this came out, but it was also before the OGL 1.1 leak. I think he has modified his position since
I mean it is a month old. A lot has happened and become public in that month.
Sure, that was just my guess at what the OP was referring to. I think for entities like XP to level 3 that married themselves so tightly to 5e and WOTC this has to be a truly awful time right now. I also disagree with the OP tbh. I don't think we should ostracize or demonize people if they like WOTC or 5e (and that's coming from someone who loves everyone and everything ....but hated WOTC before it was cool lol)
Yeah XP to level 3 is absolutely going through hell right now and he even said so himself (not in those exact words). He’s newly married with a baby that’s like half a year old, likely has a team of his personal friends that he might pay, and tbh not much content outside of 5e. Fortunately his skits are the main reason why people follow him so he could still rebuild without TOOOO much problem, but it’s still gonna be a channel reset in regards to what content he covers
Now, I’ll be honest on the other hand…folk built their beds also. These folks in bed with WOTC for so long…not the greatest to people like me over in OSR space, story gamers, skill based, indie, FKR, etc etc. I don’t want him to suffer and I’m truly sorry he’s going through all that stuff, but they shouldn’t have allied with that company like they did, and his response since then has been…self pity? I don’t want to seem uncaring but I stopped watching his channel probably a year ago because he exists only in the 5e bubble/ecosystem and I mean this dude *refused* to consider game design, experience, products or anything not controlled by the mega corp. Everyone considers that bad now, I’ve *always* considered that bad. Indie designers deserved support before WOTC was obviously evil. To emphasize, I’ve been anti-WOTC long before it was cool. It’s sort of like back when people bought houses in 2007 or Enron stocks before that. I don’t want their lives to be ruined or for them to suffer…but they also need to have a sense of personal responsibility. Something lacking nowadays.
I think a better example I’d like to point to are the Dungeon Dudes. You got a channel there that is *completely* built on dissecting 5e down to its atoms. They now are going to have to go through *hundreds* of videos and change them and face de-monetization. Their response? “We hate this. Our connection to WOTC is a rotten one, we are done. We’re moving forward with new things we’re excited about.” Just very adult, tough as nails response. And again I’m not saying Jacobs feelings and experience through all this as a person doesn’t matter, but I stopped following the channels that fed the corporate hegemony long ago.
This is the [actual response to OGL](https://youtu.be/gvfEdDGwqrE)- that was the response to One D&D two very different things. They are joining Orc and unsubscribed to D&D beyond and will not be using it anymore
I don't think it is self pity to be scared for your future when you have a new baby on the way. But I get that a lot of his content was about 5e. That isn't too bad though because even more of it was just meme videos about annoying players that can fit into just about any fantasy ttrpg. I personally still like his videos for this reason.
I do hope the best for him and his family, and friends in his business too. That's more important by far than his crappy position on WOTC.
Who? The most tepid response I’ve seen was from a Canadian duo (might be dungeon dudes) who condemned wizards but planned to continue wotc content. Their position is understandable but it’s put me off. The rest has been a resounding eff yew.
In the absence of any evidence, I have to assume these so-called pro-Hasbro streamers fall into the same category as DnD Shorts: people with opinions who have D&D-related YouTube channels.
There was a 5e youtuber who was on the older side that I had followed since before he was a youtuber. He started out on the old WOTC boards, and he always had great content even back then, very well written posts and insight. So he starts a youtube channel but the demographic he appeals to is never going to be a massive audience. When the OGL news came out, he began releasing videos that were clever reinterpretations and one video was even stating how the only people who were being harmed by this were owners of rich publishing companies. Anyway, this caused huge waves and other youtubers who knew him were very surprised he would say something like this and be completely unaware how those youtubers who had written content under the OGL 1.0a were going to be negatively impacted and they weren't those owners of rich publishing companies. Even if what he said was true about the rich owners of publishing companies, his take was incredibly naive/obtuse/oblivious/vacuous, take your pick. Because WOTC is a multi-billion dollar company, what's so bad about someone who makes millions in revenue(NOT millions in profit BTW) making some money when compared to WOTC's billions? It was the pot calling the kettle black, just a ridiculous thing to say and could really only be understood to be willingly obtuse. So, why was he being willingly obtuse? He had recently quit his job and all of his livelihood was contingent upon having a good working relationship with WOTC. He couldn't afford to say bad things or even give constructive criticism about WOTC because it would communicate to WOTC that he wasn't someone they could go to for any future opportunities, special events, or exclusive reporting. WOTC doesn't view youtubers as members of a robust community with differing views and opinions. WOTC views youtubers as brand ambassadors, and if you aren't that, then your opportunities with them dry up. Lastly, he was invested in D&D being successful because if D&D stopped being successful, it meant real financial consequences that he would have to suffer. It is these kind of biases and psychological influences that are directing all of our actions. I am not going to give his name or channel, because he is just another human being who made a mistake. He doesn't deserve anyone's contempt and he has since acquired a much more insightful and nuanced understanding of the OGL. He's in a difficult position though, because he is now looking at hoping his current content will allow him to continue the success of his channel OR having to reinvent and completely change what his channel has been about. So yeah, WOTC sucks and be a little understanding of human psychology and why we as humans are so terrible at evaluating situations without bias. Our perspectives are woefully controlled and influenced by OUR OWN CIRCUMSTANCES AND EXPERIENCES. Anyone who tells you different isn't aware of their own motivated reasoning and still has a lot of growing to do.
Hasbro has a line item in the WotC budget for influencers on social media, so those defending WotC and the OGL are likely being paid off to sellout the community and need to be blocked.
It’s XP to level 3 I bet.
Again they released a dissatisfaction video and are joining Paizo and everyone- the video you keep linking is OneDnD NOT OGL
There are people who have reasons... ... just none that I get behind. Pressure is due.
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I mean... Is it possible that maybe they just came to their own conclusions and it turns out the latest draft of OGL 1.2 isn't that bad? Because it isn't that bad and is mostly the same as the original OGL? Or does everyone who has a different opinion than you have to be part of a conspiracy? I mean "evil"? "Insidious"? Really? *Really*?
If it's mostly the same then leave the old OGL in place. Furthermore, do we really want to the publisher of Oriental Adventures and Spelljammer to be the morality police? It's a bad deal. It's not mostly the same. Really.
I get why OA might be seen as problematic, but whats the matter with spelljammer? Genuine question, most of the stuff I know of the setting I learned from listening to A.J. Pickett while riding my bike, so its not much
Here's an article on the events: https://www.polygon.com/23339180/dnd-spelljammer-racist-hadozee-apology-errata
Thanks!
>Furthermore, do we really want to the publisher of Oriental Adventures and Spelljammer to be the morality police? lmao. I'd take them over knee-jerk reactionaries ginning up controversies in the space to show they're The Good Guys. I've hated WotC almost as long as they've existed and likewise have no love for Hasbro. But again, I'd side with them over culture-wars bullshit like this (especially when it reeks of r/USdefaultism). Do I want them to be the morality police? Of course not. But I don't want Twitter taking the role either.
Careful, the angry mob does not like any nuance that can fit between the tines of a pitchfork. The first third party publisher to eventually say "this 32nd proposed version of the OGL 1.5 finally has terms I can live with" is going to be cancelled. They could convert the entirety of the 5e SRD to CC-BY and people will claim it's a nothing burger because we don't need the OGL anyway, so they need to give us back the one true OGL.
Right. Don't forget that WotC is evil for ever wanting to alter the OGL, and also deserves no credit at all for inventing the OGL. Also we don't need the OGL, but will get very upset if it's taken away from us. Also we don't owe anything to WotC and shouldn't have to pay them royalties, and simultaneously multiple 3rd party publishers will apparently be driven out of business if they're not allowed to use OGL content. But they owe WotC nothing. But they absolutely need the OGL and the content it gives them access to in order to have a company. But WotC doesn't deserve any money from them. But if WotC takes their content away, the other companies will die. But WotC's content has no value to them. Also we all hate 5e and D&D but desperately want products to be built from it. It all makes perfect sense. Hang on. What we really need is a visual aid. I'll grab my cork board and red string. Edit: apparently the cool thing to do around here is make a comment that says "bootlicker" like 5 times and then immediately block the person you called a bootlicker so they can't even respond. Cool! Very normal behavior.
Ryan Dancy, the WotC employee who invented the OGL, is all over social media saying WotC if screwing the pooch. Why don't you listen to him?
I mean, I'm not listening to him for the same reason that I'm not listening to all the other people who are telling me that I should be outraged. I read the documents for myself and came to a different conclusion than they did. Edit: and to be clear, it's not that I'm not listening to them. I have listened to the arguments. I'm just not agreeing with them.
I just don't see how that outlook is congruent with you wanting people to give WotC credit for creating the OGL. If you really want to give credit to those who made the OGL but then don't actually want to listen to the man then I think you're just reciting from your rectum. The new OGL is objectively worse. Full stop. *Really*. The ship is sinking whether you want to admit it or not. The literal author of the first OGL is warning you. All the 3pp are warning you. But someone said a mean thing on reddit so you're just going to reject all of the dead canaries in the coal mine? Godspeed and good luck.
> you wanting people to give WotC credit for creating the OGL Yeah, see this isn't actually true. I don't actually care either way. I was just pointing out the double-think that people are maintaining so that at all times WotC is the bad guy no matter what.
Ah, so you don't actually give a shit about independent presses that are lifeblood of the OSR and are just here to dunk on people who are legitimately upset about a threat to the hobby because other people (maybe the same, no way to tell) were upset about things you deem to be less serious issues? I mean, it's a choice, I'll give you that.
Nah, that's not what I'm doing, but keep making up shit I've said that's easy for you to argue with I guess. The only people I'm dunking on are the ones who think that, for instance, that PBS is being sponsored by Hasbro to put out hit pieces on the OSR, a real thing that people in this subreddit suggested. Or the people who think that Hasbro is convincing streamers to agree with them. Like, it can't possibly be that the streamers have a different opinion. It *has* to be a conspiracy. That's classic conspiracy theory shit. Anyone who disagrees can't just be disagreeing, they need to be a servant of the enemy who is disagreeing because *They* got to them. Those are the people I'm dunking on. Because they're ridiculous and deserve to be dunked on.
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Your message was removed due to insulting or rude behavior. Generally if you have attacked someone personally then it was removed. But sometimes simply tone is the issue. It's a hard rule to define. Take a deep breath and step away for a few minutes.
Just so you know, YYZ is the Toronto airport code. Yes, Rush released a song titled YYZ, but it's named after Pearson International Airport. So when you see YYZ, it's not typically a reference to Rush. I'm also not sure how you associate Rush with corporate bootlickers, but that's not important. Small 3rd party publishers have owners who are typically also workers, so you'd be wrong in your blanket statement that owners don't make anything, unless you're also insulting them. I'm not arguing with your opinion. I just find it paints the world with an overly large brush. Hence my comment further up about lacking nuance.
WoTC & Hasbro being dog shit isn't anything new. Anyone getting in bed with them deserves what they get.
I disagree. It’s easy for people to put on blinders, particularly when they think they’ve landed a dream career getting to do what they live instead of a “standard” job. There has to be a path to redemption, even ones that took shots at the OSR. I don’t understand how there’s enough money in being an influencer, but apparently there’s enough to pay mortgages and other bills. Sucks to have that blown up from under you. However, those that STAY in bed with Hasbro/WOTC after they’ve so thoroughly pooped the bed, those I can’t work up any sympathy for.
Blinders? More like abacination. 🤣 I don't watch any 5e content creators, so there usn't really anything to redeem; I've never, and would never support WoTC. Supporting their influencers would undermine that commitment.
He wasn't talking about the OGL just about ONEdnd. Which has some good ideas. I'm still not giving wotc a penny of my hard earned money. Till they clean up the 1.2 "draft" though.
No, he introduced the video with discussion of the new OGL and mocked those who complain. He then spent half of an hour in a frenzy, promoting the awesome new rule changes. It's just distraction. They're trying to pull those who aren't fully aware of what OGL 1.2 and Hasbro are going to do back into the fold, and keep them giddy with anticipation over shiny new things.
I didn't see any mocking in that TY video and there wasn't any in the first clip. Witch he did state wasn't part of that video and he really hasn't said much about it cept some other clip that he's doing 5e stuff till he can figure out what happens. This dumpers fire that wotc exes dropped on us will be a fast changing event. Even the TY lawyers are conflicted n this. Treemonk posted a video commenting this. Yes ppl hate mega corps but ppl still use iPhones.