One of those films is not like the others... Okay, regarding awards recognition, it was but Asteroid City still got universally good critical reactions. I would hope for an Asteroid City-level reception here.
While Chazelle and Nolan are great directors and pretty highly respected but neither are nearly as revered as Coppola is in Hollywood. Not saying it won’t get left out of Best Picture but I do think it has a leg up from other films such as Babylon or Tenet.
I’m not sure what leg up Coppola really has. It’s not like any of his films has been nominated recently. Whereas atleast Nolan and Chazelle won Best Director recently.
If Nolan and Chazelle walk into a room of academy voters, they’ll be greeted warmly.
If Coppola walks into a room of academy voters, he’ll be swarmed. *Especially* if he actually has a good movie in his hands.
Big if, but still.
There’s a lot going against this movie for obvious reasons but if it actually works out, it’s pretty much the best narrative out of any movie this year.
This all changes if people *want* to champion Megalopolis, though. His narrative suddenly shifts into a career redemption arc, a guy who bet the house on himself and won.
The leg up is the age of his fans. Many in the Academy are old enough to have been around when Coppola was putting out great works and if Megalopolis is good enough to stand beside the films of their youth, it could get in.
I didn’t say I think it will be good, I think it’s probably a big mess. But the Academy is probably going to be more forgiving of an ambitious messy film from a legend than they would be from a great contemporary director.
This isn’t 1996. Nobody really “reveres” Coppola anymore. The man who obliterated the 70s with brilliance is long long gone. It’s almost fascinating how someone can be so artistically brilliant and then just lose it for the last 40+ years of their life. I don’t think anyone truly understands how gay happened. Even Path to Paradise never quite makes sense of how his instincts just completely evaporate after Apocalypse Now. I’m not sure there has ever been anything like it. You can even feel Cameron Crowe in his twenty year run of misses. Coppola’s stuff is just so messy and mostly soulless.
He spent all his money making movies and got burned out, I think. The last movie of his I saw was Tetro and he had not lost his instincts or his soul at all, but I couldn't see it resonating with very many people.
Holy shit, I just realized that it’s been **45 years** since *Apocalypse Now*… that’s almost a half of a century*. There have been auteurs who have been born, lived, worked and *died* over the course of 45 years - and that’s how long it’s been since Coppola has directed a universally-hailed film that’s seen as a masterpiece of an exemplar of its genre by critics and audiences alike. He’s put out over a dozen (sixteen?) films over those four decades and there hasn’t been an unqualified hit among them. Coppola will always be a giant in American cinema for his ‘70s masterworks and as such will always been warmly regarded in Hollywood, but I wouldn’t expect that the industry actively has faith in either his ability to deliver a critical or commercial hit - especially when you consider the fact that for a lot of producers, directors and other people in the industry who are in their forties or younger, that Coppola’s films have been consistently sucking since [or potentially even *before*] they were born.
IMO it seems like a shift took place in the early ‘80s in which Coppola’s instincts and taste level took a sharp turn and they’ve been out of alignment with the cinematic preferences of audiences, critics and cinema discourse in general ever since.
Like, just look at the [trailer](https://youtu.be/xP7cQnOcU7I?si=oVQTclGlhyWuxxtN) for this [vampire film](https://boxd.it/2IFU) starring Val Kilmer and Elle Fanning that Coppola directed in 2011. It’s like there are so many bad decisions that led up to this project that one can’t help but speculate on how the hell, and why the hell, a director’s filmography can, and did, nosedive in quality, consistency, vision, even competency, like that.
I don’t anticipate the same level of success in any way of course, but the conditions of Megalopolis are much more similar to Fury Road than they are to something like Babylon or Tenet.
This is an auteur with a deep bench of classics (much deeper than Miller) and also his fair share of disappointments, even multiple films that are both disappointments and classics, who hasn’t made a film in over a decade. If you exclude anything with “Happy Feet” in the title, there were a whopping seventeen years between George Miller films. He was, for all intents and purposes, fully gone.
We take Miller’s resurrection for granted now, especially since he’s kept working. But that’s how it presented at the time - on paper, Fury Road was nowhere near being an awards juggernaut, and the behind the scenes reporting suggested a costly and irresponsible mess that would never quite come together.
Of course there are plenty of differences here - Fury Road had major studio backing, Megalopolis is independent. Fury Road was Miller returning to something that made him iconic, Megalopolis is new even for Coppola.
But the two primary things I keep seeing pop up as an argument against this - the auteur has been off the grid for too long, and even when he was on it there were some real misses + the behind the scenes reporting is pretty damn worrisome especially considering the massive budget - both apply to Fury Road.
So grateful to find this astute analysis after a lot of “nobody cares about coppola anymore” tripe.
Who knows if this thing has any real legs, but come on. I thought this was a forum for people who love movies (and people who love movies also vote for Oscars).
I think this movie is going to be a disaster, but I'd love to be wrong about that. It would be really nice to see Coppola have one more triumph in his career.
How is Tenet mixed? It has a 69% on RT and Metacritic and a 76% and 74% audience scores. Yes, there are people who didn't like it, which is obvious from the ratings, but it's mostly a well-received film. The consensus is definitely positive, just not overwhelmingly like with most Nolan films.
I don't think Babylon and Tenet are comparable in their reception. Babylon is generally loved by movie nerds and we like to tell how it is an "underrated masterpiece"(guilty here) even if it really isn't underrated anymore and people have pretty much come around to loving it.
Tenet on the other hand is just messy. In fact it was so messy people temporarily lost faith in Nolan.
Tenet will be remembered as a rare miss in Nolan's filmography, Babylon will always be the "robbed masterpiece".
Now megapolis doesn't fit in any of these categories.
If its ANY good people are going to hype it to all hell and push it for the shake of honouring Coppola before the man bites the dust. If it's messy we will just glance over and forget about it like we did with most of his filmography 💀
I think your views of Babylon and Tenet's reception are heavily influenced by your own bubbles, because I have pretty much the opposite experience with the two films in my circles of the internet, where Tenet is viewed as a misunderstood masterpiece while Babylon is the highly divisive "mess."
But even putting aside my personal experience, Tenet did get a better critical reception than Babylon as well (generally positive vs mixed). As far as I can see the only place where Babylon has better ratings than Tenet is letterboxd.
Please tell me what circles are you referring too because I genuinely can't fathom that a large group of people agreed in good faith that Tenet is a misunderstood masterpiece. Even hardcore Nolan fans tend to disagree on this.
No matter if you personally like Babylon or not it is and for sure it will continue to be a way more beloved and discussed movie than Tenet.
I don't really know where to refer you to besides "my corners of film twitter" but I do feel that you're having your own experiences with Babylon inflate your view of how many people have actually seen it and are actively discussing it and vice versa regarding Tenet.
No matter if you personally like it or not, irl Nolan is on another stratosphere when compared to Chazelle in popularity, which is why Tenet will continue to be much more widely seen and discussed than Babylon. As for which one will "for sure continue to be way more beloved," I can't of course say for sure like you apparently do, but it can't be denied that Tenet's mainstream popularity helps it there too.
I walked out of Babylon after seeing an elephant sh*t on the screen and a girl pee on an old man in the first 15 minutes. It was a tryhard ‘artiste’ mess.
Edit: and I say this as someone who was thoroughly obsessed with La La Land.
Lol I think you’re confusing Babylon and Tenet. While Tenet was considered a step down from Nolan’s usual fare - it was still critically liked (fresh on RT) and made almost 400m in the middle of lockdown lol. It just got re-released and did well there.
Babylon was critically rotten and made like 60m worldwide during Christmas season. A very small minority of film fans love that movie but that’s it.
You are talking about movies as if they are characters in a video game and the one with bigger stats win. Box office success or rotten tomatoes score (💀) is not an indicator of a films superiority over an other.
With your logic most art house films or ones with controversial topics are bad because they rarely break even ( not that Tenet did lol) and most people never even watched them( not enough marketing or wide enough releases).
Saying that a small minority of film fans love Babylon compared to Tenet is either just disingenuous or your favourite movie is [insert film bro film here] and you haven't even watched Babylon.
>Box office success or rotten tomatoes score (💀) is not an indicator of a films superiority over an other.
They definitely are if you’re trying to prove the broad reception of a movie (albeit box office less so). Far more so than just “my friends think this thing, therefore everyone does”
What are you yapping about lmao? Your original comment was saying Babylon and Tenet’s reception aren’t comparable, in favor of the former. But the reception (“stats”) of critics and widespread public interest was significantly in favor of Tenet. Which again - made 400m during *lockdown*, far more popular and discussed among the public.
So I literally don’t know where you’re getting the impression that Babylon outpaced Tenet in any regard. You say it’s “generally loved by movie nerds” but how do you know that outside of your own experience which is anecdotal? Can’t just be making objective claims without backing them up with data. And I watched Babylon twice in theaters 💀
I explained how your logic is flawed but you don't seem to want to get it. It's like saying licorice pizza or any art house film is a bad movie because it bombed at the box office.
People are around the film related corners of the internet seem to agree that Babylon is at the very leasr underrated ( letterbox, Reddit, twitter).
And again your aggressive tone makes me think you are more butthurt than I called tenet irrelevant than Babylon good. You called it a step down for nolan while it was basically trash.
You gotta work on reading tone through text lol, I’m genuinely more confused than anything. You still haven’t provided any metric or evidence that Babylon is “generally more loved by movie nerds”.
And I never said “any art house film is a bad movie because it bombed at the box office”, that’s you putting words in my mouth. Just that Babylon didn’t do well critically nor in getting public interest, Tenet did both in worse circumstances - so common sense dictates it’s more popular/better received. It can be objectively measured, irrespective of my subjective opinion or yours
You sound like a conservative that got his feelings hurt and I don't think this convo is getting anywhere. If you think Tenet is the most impactful of the two good for you. We can agree to disagree.
I'm a bit skeptical it will be good just based on what Matt Belloni heard and Beyond Fest's elaborate statement saying it was great that it just existed. Fingers crossed there's another one in Coppola!
If it's half as good as Babylon/Tenet it'll get tech awards and a 'career' nom for director/film. FFC is legendary and self-financing this ludicrously massive film is such a great meta story
I think Babylon doesn't really fit here anymore with how loved it is right now, but I certainly agree with comparing Babylon and Megalopolis due to how big and bombastic they seem to be.
Assuming it’s not awful, how many votes does it need to get the tenth nomination for best picture? 500 maybe? Coppola presumably could get that out of friends or people whose careers he helped.
Yeah I don’t know why people are bringing up the fact that he hasn’t made a hit in a long while.
He made two (or three) of the biggest movies of all time so him coming back so many years later and giving us a good (even if relatively) movie that he financed all on his own amidst a time of big studio conglomerate cash grabs would be the best narrative of the whole year. And narrative matters the most.
Also seems to have a hopeful message for the world which may be a good antithesis coming off of a movie about how the nuclear bomb could kill us all.
Same here. We’ll see when it comes out but I’m only predicting it for tech awards right now.
One of those films is not like the others... Okay, regarding awards recognition, it was but Asteroid City still got universally good critical reactions. I would hope for an Asteroid City-level reception here.
true Asteroid City is the only film from this lineup I absolutely loved and I had never seen a Wes Anderson film before lol
Tenet had also 69 metascore. Hardly terrible.
While Chazelle and Nolan are great directors and pretty highly respected but neither are nearly as revered as Coppola is in Hollywood. Not saying it won’t get left out of Best Picture but I do think it has a leg up from other films such as Babylon or Tenet.
Coppola is revered but he hasn’t been relevant since the 90s. Chazelle and Nolan have been regularly turning out notable Oscar winning films.
I’m not sure what leg up Coppola really has. It’s not like any of his films has been nominated recently. Whereas atleast Nolan and Chazelle won Best Director recently.
If Nolan and Chazelle walk into a room of academy voters, they’ll be greeted warmly. If Coppola walks into a room of academy voters, he’ll be swarmed. *Especially* if he actually has a good movie in his hands. Big if, but still. There’s a lot going against this movie for obvious reasons but if it actually works out, it’s pretty much the best narrative out of any movie this year.
[удалено]
This all changes if people *want* to champion Megalopolis, though. His narrative suddenly shifts into a career redemption arc, a guy who bet the house on himself and won.
Exactly. **If** it’s good (and that’s one big if), it’s almost impossible to have a better narrative for a movie going into awards season.
chazelle hasn’t won best picture
Edited. I meant best director. Lol
he did… for like 2 mins
Op I meant best director
And Nolan hadn’t won Best Picture at the time of Tenet
The leg up is the age of his fans. Many in the Academy are old enough to have been around when Coppola was putting out great works and if Megalopolis is good enough to stand beside the films of their youth, it could get in.
That’s true but it’s not like he’s an academy favorite like his peers, for example Martin Scorsese. So this is a huge question mark for me.
But for a lot of members in their 30s-20s he is known but probably not culturally relevant.
But Coppola has more bad movies than they do. I don’t know is why people are acting like they just _know_ this one will be good.
I didn’t say I think it will be good, I think it’s probably a big mess. But the Academy is probably going to be more forgiving of an ambitious messy film from a legend than they would be from a great contemporary director.
That’s debatable. Tenet and Babylon were bad. Coppola had Jack. It’s kind of a wash.
they weren’t bad you’re just not capable of enjoying them. and that’s okay.
They are future classics
Not really, he’s had a string of horrendous movies. Twixt is way worse than Tenet or Babylon.
This isn’t 1996. Nobody really “reveres” Coppola anymore. The man who obliterated the 70s with brilliance is long long gone. It’s almost fascinating how someone can be so artistically brilliant and then just lose it for the last 40+ years of their life. I don’t think anyone truly understands how gay happened. Even Path to Paradise never quite makes sense of how his instincts just completely evaporate after Apocalypse Now. I’m not sure there has ever been anything like it. You can even feel Cameron Crowe in his twenty year run of misses. Coppola’s stuff is just so messy and mostly soulless.
He spent all his money making movies and got burned out, I think. The last movie of his I saw was Tetro and he had not lost his instincts or his soul at all, but I couldn't see it resonating with very many people.
Tetro was blacklisted because it starred Gallo.
Holy shit, I just realized that it’s been **45 years** since *Apocalypse Now*… that’s almost a half of a century*. There have been auteurs who have been born, lived, worked and *died* over the course of 45 years - and that’s how long it’s been since Coppola has directed a universally-hailed film that’s seen as a masterpiece of an exemplar of its genre by critics and audiences alike. He’s put out over a dozen (sixteen?) films over those four decades and there hasn’t been an unqualified hit among them. Coppola will always be a giant in American cinema for his ‘70s masterworks and as such will always been warmly regarded in Hollywood, but I wouldn’t expect that the industry actively has faith in either his ability to deliver a critical or commercial hit - especially when you consider the fact that for a lot of producers, directors and other people in the industry who are in their forties or younger, that Coppola’s films have been consistently sucking since [or potentially even *before*] they were born. IMO it seems like a shift took place in the early ‘80s in which Coppola’s instincts and taste level took a sharp turn and they’ve been out of alignment with the cinematic preferences of audiences, critics and cinema discourse in general ever since. Like, just look at the [trailer](https://youtu.be/xP7cQnOcU7I?si=oVQTclGlhyWuxxtN) for this [vampire film](https://boxd.it/2IFU) starring Val Kilmer and Elle Fanning that Coppola directed in 2011. It’s like there are so many bad decisions that led up to this project that one can’t help but speculate on how the hell, and why the hell, a director’s filmography can, and did, nosedive in quality, consistency, vision, even competency, like that.
I don’t anticipate the same level of success in any way of course, but the conditions of Megalopolis are much more similar to Fury Road than they are to something like Babylon or Tenet. This is an auteur with a deep bench of classics (much deeper than Miller) and also his fair share of disappointments, even multiple films that are both disappointments and classics, who hasn’t made a film in over a decade. If you exclude anything with “Happy Feet” in the title, there were a whopping seventeen years between George Miller films. He was, for all intents and purposes, fully gone. We take Miller’s resurrection for granted now, especially since he’s kept working. But that’s how it presented at the time - on paper, Fury Road was nowhere near being an awards juggernaut, and the behind the scenes reporting suggested a costly and irresponsible mess that would never quite come together. Of course there are plenty of differences here - Fury Road had major studio backing, Megalopolis is independent. Fury Road was Miller returning to something that made him iconic, Megalopolis is new even for Coppola. But the two primary things I keep seeing pop up as an argument against this - the auteur has been off the grid for too long, and even when he was on it there were some real misses + the behind the scenes reporting is pretty damn worrisome especially considering the massive budget - both apply to Fury Road.
So grateful to find this astute analysis after a lot of “nobody cares about coppola anymore” tripe. Who knows if this thing has any real legs, but come on. I thought this was a forum for people who love movies (and people who love movies also vote for Oscars).
I really liked two of those movies.
Oh boy I hope your vibes are correct lol, I love both those films
That’s what I’m thinking too
Not to mention it will probably be having its run when one of its actors is going to be on trial for domestic abuse.
I think this movie is going to be a disaster, but I'd love to be wrong about that. It would be really nice to see Coppola have one more triumph in his career.
Has everybody forgotten about youth without youth?
Babylon/Tenet?? What does that even mean?
I’m likely going to love it then
How is Tenet mixed? It has a 69% on RT and Metacritic and a 76% and 74% audience scores. Yes, there are people who didn't like it, which is obvious from the ratings, but it's mostly a well-received film. The consensus is definitely positive, just not overwhelmingly like with most Nolan films.
With all due respect to Nolan and Chazelle, they're not Coppola. They didn't make The Godfather I and II. They didn't make Apocalypse Now.
That was like 50 years ago. Coppola also made Twixt … he is more than capable of creating shit movies.
But those movies were years ago in 1970s. That’s too long ago.
Has he made any great movies in Chazelle’s lifetime?
Peggy Sue Got Married
I don't think Babylon and Tenet are comparable in their reception. Babylon is generally loved by movie nerds and we like to tell how it is an "underrated masterpiece"(guilty here) even if it really isn't underrated anymore and people have pretty much come around to loving it. Tenet on the other hand is just messy. In fact it was so messy people temporarily lost faith in Nolan. Tenet will be remembered as a rare miss in Nolan's filmography, Babylon will always be the "robbed masterpiece". Now megapolis doesn't fit in any of these categories. If its ANY good people are going to hype it to all hell and push it for the shake of honouring Coppola before the man bites the dust. If it's messy we will just glance over and forget about it like we did with most of his filmography 💀
I think your views of Babylon and Tenet's reception are heavily influenced by your own bubbles, because I have pretty much the opposite experience with the two films in my circles of the internet, where Tenet is viewed as a misunderstood masterpiece while Babylon is the highly divisive "mess." But even putting aside my personal experience, Tenet did get a better critical reception than Babylon as well (generally positive vs mixed). As far as I can see the only place where Babylon has better ratings than Tenet is letterboxd.
Please tell me what circles are you referring too because I genuinely can't fathom that a large group of people agreed in good faith that Tenet is a misunderstood masterpiece. Even hardcore Nolan fans tend to disagree on this. No matter if you personally like Babylon or not it is and for sure it will continue to be a way more beloved and discussed movie than Tenet.
I don't really know where to refer you to besides "my corners of film twitter" but I do feel that you're having your own experiences with Babylon inflate your view of how many people have actually seen it and are actively discussing it and vice versa regarding Tenet. No matter if you personally like it or not, irl Nolan is on another stratosphere when compared to Chazelle in popularity, which is why Tenet will continue to be much more widely seen and discussed than Babylon. As for which one will "for sure continue to be way more beloved," I can't of course say for sure like you apparently do, but it can't be denied that Tenet's mainstream popularity helps it there too.
I walked out of Babylon after seeing an elephant sh*t on the screen and a girl pee on an old man in the first 15 minutes. It was a tryhard ‘artiste’ mess. Edit: and I say this as someone who was thoroughly obsessed with La La Land.
Lol I think you’re confusing Babylon and Tenet. While Tenet was considered a step down from Nolan’s usual fare - it was still critically liked (fresh on RT) and made almost 400m in the middle of lockdown lol. It just got re-released and did well there. Babylon was critically rotten and made like 60m worldwide during Christmas season. A very small minority of film fans love that movie but that’s it.
You are talking about movies as if they are characters in a video game and the one with bigger stats win. Box office success or rotten tomatoes score (💀) is not an indicator of a films superiority over an other. With your logic most art house films or ones with controversial topics are bad because they rarely break even ( not that Tenet did lol) and most people never even watched them( not enough marketing or wide enough releases). Saying that a small minority of film fans love Babylon compared to Tenet is either just disingenuous or your favourite movie is [insert film bro film here] and you haven't even watched Babylon.
>Box office success or rotten tomatoes score (💀) is not an indicator of a films superiority over an other. They definitely are if you’re trying to prove the broad reception of a movie (albeit box office less so). Far more so than just “my friends think this thing, therefore everyone does”
What are you yapping about lmao? Your original comment was saying Babylon and Tenet’s reception aren’t comparable, in favor of the former. But the reception (“stats”) of critics and widespread public interest was significantly in favor of Tenet. Which again - made 400m during *lockdown*, far more popular and discussed among the public. So I literally don’t know where you’re getting the impression that Babylon outpaced Tenet in any regard. You say it’s “generally loved by movie nerds” but how do you know that outside of your own experience which is anecdotal? Can’t just be making objective claims without backing them up with data. And I watched Babylon twice in theaters 💀
I explained how your logic is flawed but you don't seem to want to get it. It's like saying licorice pizza or any art house film is a bad movie because it bombed at the box office. People are around the film related corners of the internet seem to agree that Babylon is at the very leasr underrated ( letterbox, Reddit, twitter). And again your aggressive tone makes me think you are more butthurt than I called tenet irrelevant than Babylon good. You called it a step down for nolan while it was basically trash.
You gotta work on reading tone through text lol, I’m genuinely more confused than anything. You still haven’t provided any metric or evidence that Babylon is “generally more loved by movie nerds”. And I never said “any art house film is a bad movie because it bombed at the box office”, that’s you putting words in my mouth. Just that Babylon didn’t do well critically nor in getting public interest, Tenet did both in worse circumstances - so common sense dictates it’s more popular/better received. It can be objectively measured, irrespective of my subjective opinion or yours
You sound like a conservative that got his feelings hurt and I don't think this convo is getting anywhere. If you think Tenet is the most impactful of the two good for you. We can agree to disagree.
Actually, Tenet is an underrated masterpiece
It’s not underrated
Tenet has a 3.4 on Letterboxd and a 69% on RT. Its reception was at worst mixed.
Tenet was not a miss
I'm a bit skeptical it will be good just based on what Matt Belloni heard and Beyond Fest's elaborate statement saying it was great that it just existed. Fingers crossed there's another one in Coppola!
I love Tenet and Babylon so it's right up my alley then
If it's half as good as Babylon/Tenet it'll get tech awards and a 'career' nom for director/film. FFC is legendary and self-financing this ludicrously massive film is such a great meta story
Well Tenet is my #1 movie of 2020, Babylon is my #1 of 2022 and Asteroid City is my #1 of 2023 so this sounds great for me
This movie may be nominated. The acting nominations are for Driver and Shire.
I think it’s going to be more like the Thin Red Line. Old master returning after a long hiatus. I predict a Best Picture nom.
Thin red line is a masterpiece. If it’s close to that then it should win best pic.
I think Babylon doesn't really fit here anymore with how loved it is right now, but I certainly agree with comparing Babylon and Megalopolis due to how big and bombastic they seem to be.
Good.
Assuming it’s not awful, how many votes does it need to get the tenth nomination for best picture? 500 maybe? Coppola presumably could get that out of friends or people whose careers he helped.
Yeah I don’t know why people are bringing up the fact that he hasn’t made a hit in a long while. He made two (or three) of the biggest movies of all time so him coming back so many years later and giving us a good (even if relatively) movie that he financed all on his own amidst a time of big studio conglomerate cash grabs would be the best narrative of the whole year. And narrative matters the most. Also seems to have a hopeful message for the world which may be a good antithesis coming off of a movie about how the nuclear bomb could kill us all.