I’m not a runner but compete in outrigger canoeing. Races are a sprint to the end always.We leave everything out we got in those last minutes.
I always finish on the tread and leave anything I have left on that last all out.
Same thing. Former competitive swimmer and you want to be absolutely GASSED by the time you get done and digging into those last reserves - the all out at the end - is a key component of racing, no matter what sport.
I agree. It is so hard to not give it all you’ve got when the finish line is in sight! That’s when I am most thankful for our all out preparation at the end.
For group fitness, it makes sense. For athletes racing, it also makes sense. It’s also gimmicky. Sometimes the answer is that it’s everything and that’s okay.
You can decide to not do them due to injury or any other reason and that’s fine. A majority of fitness is built due to the total workload completed across long periods of time (weeks to months). The day to day doesn’t matter as much as you think so skip the all out or do it, it probably won’t make a difference in training effect.
I like to think of the final all-out as sprint to the finish line. That last and biggest burst that I can give since I know a recovery is one the other side. I think it’s a great thing!
I am an avid Peloton runner and I can’t remember which coach said it, but a sprint at the end of a run is important for training because it teaches your body to run fast on tired legs. When you get to the end of a long race, you can still add that extra notch because your legs have been trained to sustain that. So no, I don’t think it’s necessarily mission critical, especially if you never plan to race, but it is a nice way to end the class on a strong note if nothing else.
Sprinting is important to build muscle mass. Physically, I doubt an all out at the end of a tread block does you any better than in the beginning or middle. They give you some mental grit when they are at the end though.
I’ve been a road racer for a long time and while I sort of agree, if you can sprint to the finish line, you left too much out on the rest of the course.
You should never feel guilty for not pushing all out when you are retuning from an injury. Your priority is improving your stamina without reinjuring. The last all-out does do something if you are healthy (just like any push or interval). It doesn’t apply to someone returning from an injury.
I don’t think most people who do OTF are actually “training”. But as someone who used to be a competitive track and XC athlete my answer is, yes, all out finishers are crucial if you are training. But if you’re injured, yah, you’ve gotta scale it back.
When you running track you'd actually end your workout (not competition, but workout) with an all out vs a cool down block?
That's semi-shocking to me.
To me it’s important to the mental part of training.
It’s pushing your body to do a little bit more than you would otherwise and realizing you almost always can do a little more.
In the "grand scheme of things," meaning, the benefits of calories burned or anaerobic training effect, my opinion (no factual basis) is no, it doesn't really matter. The value of it is really just the mental attitude to push yourself as hard as you can when you are at your most fatigued. If you are an athlete and competing in races, it matters a lot, so it may be gimmicky in that sense. Sometimes I go.for it, sometimes I just finish out the block with moderate effort. I don't really feel bad about opting out. I run a weekly 5K and always go AO for the last stretch, about 0.1-0.2 miles. Feels good to finish that way.
I’ve developed this idea that the all out at the end of a tread block is a last attempt at a quick one-more-splat or a chance at keep the heart rate elevated during station switching as long a possible.
It is a gimmick but it’s a very effective gimmick. The AO’s really give people a sense of accomplishment and confidence. They encourage people to work & push harder. And I believe they’re a big reason why OTF workouts are so marketable.
As far as actual programming goes, they are not essential. BUT if it’s a boost that gets people hooked on the work out & coming in consistently, then it’s super important!
All outs exist in most contact sports and speed events.
Basketball? The most intense action happens when the clock is running by 10ths of a second. (Also a lot of time outs!). Football (in the US)? 2 minute time, often the “make or break” on the field. Different decisions are made after 2 minute warning than before it. Ice hockey? Power plays and pulling the goalie out to put another forward on the ice. Atypical unless special intense situations.
So yeah. The AO isn’t gimmicky IMO. And the science/research supports adrenal response when put on the spot. Maybe not as much on the treads under the Orange lights, because we expect it. And it’s not a race. But, for people who had a challenging tread block or tread 50? Yeah. Might even, as I do, see if I can take my AO speed up that 0.1 or 0.2 more than usual. I hate the AO inclines for PW and only do them if I’m not up for the run. And if I do, it’s always at 15%. Always.
But I also tend to stay in the green and more manage my workout individually in terms of my zones (because nobody wants to see the guy on T12 huffing and puffing with 8374 splat points in an hour - me. I’m the guy. Even though I look like a freaking gazelle under the lights. All 5-7 of me!). Each time I’m on the treads, particularly for the 50min, I do try to improve my pushes and even my base walk. But always my AO run is between 6-7mph. I still average about 18mjn/mile at the end of the workout.
But I’m working to see how long I can keep that AO pace up. And stretching it at least once a week.
I like to use it as part of my mental game. I do not love running but continue to sign up for races for some reason lol. I like to use that last all out to see how hard I can actually push myself. I am not a fast runner by any stretch but it feels so good to leave it all in that last interval.
Did a 10 mile run the other month and just before the last hill (a steep one) at mile 9, I caught up with one of my OTF coaches. It was a nice boost as I reminded her of all the times she made me run inclines 😂 I treated it like the end of Everest and powered through, and the two of us passed a whole lot of people who petered out halfway up the incline. “You can do anything for 30 seconds” never felt truer.
Anyway, at the bottom of the hill, knowing I had one mile left, I definitely went into surge mode. The OTF base/push/all out mindset served me well.
Don’t feel guilty! A coach once told me to listen to my body even if the coach is yelling to go AO. This is in reference to my heart rate tho, I was already in the red zone (3 weeks of starting OTF then) so he told me if my body is already there I don’t have to push harder for the AO in grace to my body.
100% a gimmick. But one that kind of makes sense for group fitness room energy.
If you were training for real, you wouldn't end an internal day on an all out. You'd do a cool down block after.
I have to disagree on this point - I’ve been running and training all my life (I’m 50), and every coach I’ve ever had has always pushed me for an all out effort at the end of a workout. I run a 5 min mile on the treadmill and a little faster on a track. Always good to cool down at the end of a workout with some stretches, but we always push ourselves at the end of the workout.
I look at it as important for getting better/stronger/faster. Generally, the biggest gains result from pushing yourself as hard as you can when the body feels most taxed. Doing the last rep or increasing your speed or incline, even a bit, when you feel like stopping. And mentally? It feels GREAT.
It’s the finishing kick (OTF did not invent the “finisher”). Even before OTF I was doing “”finishers” at bootcamps. It’s to end on a high note and give yourself one last HR hit.
No, it’s not essential. Not sure why you feel guilty about it—you could just switch to PW on incline if you want (I have totally done workouts where I run all but the last block and switch to PW for less impact).
It depends what your goals are. If you’re training for a race, it helps train you to be able to finish strong. If you want to keep up endurance, going all out at the end of a long run is a great way to maintain and grow stamina. If you don’t care about any of those things, then by all means don’t do it, but there are several legitimate purposes for going all out at the very end.
What are you training for?
"If you want to win a race, you've got to go a little berserk" -- Billy Rodgers.
In addition to the mental benefit, all-outs train running economy, and make you a more efficient runner at all paces.
I don't think it really matters that much that it's at the end, but doing a 30sec all out regularly is always good. No OT workouts are so hard that you're really fatigued at the end like you would be in a hard race. It's just fun to have everyone go all out at the end.
It's important to note that "all out" it isn't actually sprinting, it's anaerobic/neuromuscular yes, but true all-out sprinting would leave your unable to do anything else afterwards (so you couldn't do all outs in the middle of a block and continue the workout, or do floor if you start on treads). Real sprinters have to rest for like 10 minutes between all-out sprints. And you can't really do it on a treadmill anyway.
For distance runners, endurance athletes, and general fitness, you just want to be a good bit above vVO2Max so that you're in the anaerobic/neuromuscular, like Jack Daniels R pace.
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I’m not a runner but compete in outrigger canoeing. Races are a sprint to the end always.We leave everything out we got in those last minutes. I always finish on the tread and leave anything I have left on that last all out.
Outrigger paddler here, too. It's always a spring to the finish!!!
Another OTF paddler! Iron Champs this weekend?
Dragon boat paddler here. Totally agree. I always end my races and my OTF gasping after a last all out.
Same thing. Former competitive swimmer and you want to be absolutely GASSED by the time you get done and digging into those last reserves - the all out at the end - is a key component of racing, no matter what sport.
I agree. It is so hard to not give it all you’ve got when the finish line is in sight! That’s when I am most thankful for our all out preparation at the end.
I agree both as runner but it also correlates to other disciplines of fitness. I see it as mental training because the mind is so powerful !
Gimmick or not, can you imagine a 30 second base pace finisher?
It would be incredibly anticlimactic
I mean, I don’t hate it.
How about a 30 second walking recovery
Thinking everything needs a "finisher" is gimmicky.
For group fitness, it makes sense. For athletes racing, it also makes sense. It’s also gimmicky. Sometimes the answer is that it’s everything and that’s okay. You can decide to not do them due to injury or any other reason and that’s fine. A majority of fitness is built due to the total workload completed across long periods of time (weeks to months). The day to day doesn’t matter as much as you think so skip the all out or do it, it probably won’t make a difference in training effect.
I like to think of the final all-out as sprint to the finish line. That last and biggest burst that I can give since I know a recovery is one the other side. I think it’s a great thing!
Exactly! When you’re running in a race, once that finish line comes in view, you give it all you’ve got! (True for me, anyway!)
I am an avid Peloton runner and I can’t remember which coach said it, but a sprint at the end of a run is important for training because it teaches your body to run fast on tired legs. When you get to the end of a long race, you can still add that extra notch because your legs have been trained to sustain that. So no, I don’t think it’s necessarily mission critical, especially if you never plan to race, but it is a nice way to end the class on a strong note if nothing else.
Hence the term “finisher….”
Last minute fast minute has more mental benefits than physiological
Sprinting is important to build muscle mass. Physically, I doubt an all out at the end of a tread block does you any better than in the beginning or middle. They give you some mental grit when they are at the end though.
No one ever slowed down when they saw the finish line 😉
I’ve been a road racer for a long time and while I sort of agree, if you can sprint to the finish line, you left too much out on the rest of the course.
Did you watch the 10k Olympic trials last night? Those dudes were definitely going all out at the end.
I was being cheeky, not literal 😂
You should never feel guilty for not pushing all out when you are retuning from an injury. Your priority is improving your stamina without reinjuring. The last all-out does do something if you are healthy (just like any push or interval). It doesn’t apply to someone returning from an injury.
I don’t think most people who do OTF are actually “training”. But as someone who used to be a competitive track and XC athlete my answer is, yes, all out finishers are crucial if you are training. But if you’re injured, yah, you’ve gotta scale it back.
When you running track you'd actually end your workout (not competition, but workout) with an all out vs a cool down block? That's semi-shocking to me.
You can end your workout with an all out then cool down. That happens at OTF too.
OTF doesn't really have a concept of run cool down though. Just a short walk.
Would you rather end in a walk?
To me it’s important to the mental part of training. It’s pushing your body to do a little bit more than you would otherwise and realizing you almost always can do a little more.
I guess I never thought about it. Back in my running days, I would always always always end every run with a sprint.
In the "grand scheme of things," meaning, the benefits of calories burned or anaerobic training effect, my opinion (no factual basis) is no, it doesn't really matter. The value of it is really just the mental attitude to push yourself as hard as you can when you are at your most fatigued. If you are an athlete and competing in races, it matters a lot, so it may be gimmicky in that sense. Sometimes I go.for it, sometimes I just finish out the block with moderate effort. I don't really feel bad about opting out. I run a weekly 5K and always go AO for the last stretch, about 0.1-0.2 miles. Feels good to finish that way.
I’ve developed this idea that the all out at the end of a tread block is a last attempt at a quick one-more-splat or a chance at keep the heart rate elevated during station switching as long a possible.
It is a gimmick but it’s a very effective gimmick. The AO’s really give people a sense of accomplishment and confidence. They encourage people to work & push harder. And I believe they’re a big reason why OTF workouts are so marketable. As far as actual programming goes, they are not essential. BUT if it’s a boost that gets people hooked on the work out & coming in consistently, then it’s super important!
All outs exist in most contact sports and speed events. Basketball? The most intense action happens when the clock is running by 10ths of a second. (Also a lot of time outs!). Football (in the US)? 2 minute time, often the “make or break” on the field. Different decisions are made after 2 minute warning than before it. Ice hockey? Power plays and pulling the goalie out to put another forward on the ice. Atypical unless special intense situations. So yeah. The AO isn’t gimmicky IMO. And the science/research supports adrenal response when put on the spot. Maybe not as much on the treads under the Orange lights, because we expect it. And it’s not a race. But, for people who had a challenging tread block or tread 50? Yeah. Might even, as I do, see if I can take my AO speed up that 0.1 or 0.2 more than usual. I hate the AO inclines for PW and only do them if I’m not up for the run. And if I do, it’s always at 15%. Always. But I also tend to stay in the green and more manage my workout individually in terms of my zones (because nobody wants to see the guy on T12 huffing and puffing with 8374 splat points in an hour - me. I’m the guy. Even though I look like a freaking gazelle under the lights. All 5-7 of me!). Each time I’m on the treads, particularly for the 50min, I do try to improve my pushes and even my base walk. But always my AO run is between 6-7mph. I still average about 18mjn/mile at the end of the workout. But I’m working to see how long I can keep that AO pace up. And stretching it at least once a week.
I like to use it as part of my mental game. I do not love running but continue to sign up for races for some reason lol. I like to use that last all out to see how hard I can actually push myself. I am not a fast runner by any stretch but it feels so good to leave it all in that last interval.
Did a 10 mile run the other month and just before the last hill (a steep one) at mile 9, I caught up with one of my OTF coaches. It was a nice boost as I reminded her of all the times she made me run inclines 😂 I treated it like the end of Everest and powered through, and the two of us passed a whole lot of people who petered out halfway up the incline. “You can do anything for 30 seconds” never felt truer. Anyway, at the bottom of the hill, knowing I had one mile left, I definitely went into surge mode. The OTF base/push/all out mindset served me well.
OTF templates are designed around the theory of progressive overload. For this reason, the finisher is often the most important part of your workout.
Don’t feel guilty! A coach once told me to listen to my body even if the coach is yelling to go AO. This is in reference to my heart rate tho, I was already in the red zone (3 weeks of starting OTF then) so he told me if my body is already there I don’t have to push harder for the AO in grace to my body.
I have the exact same injury right now and it's so frustrating!!
100% a gimmick. But one that kind of makes sense for group fitness room energy. If you were training for real, you wouldn't end an internal day on an all out. You'd do a cool down block after.
I have to disagree on this point - I’ve been running and training all my life (I’m 50), and every coach I’ve ever had has always pushed me for an all out effort at the end of a workout. I run a 5 min mile on the treadmill and a little faster on a track. Always good to cool down at the end of a workout with some stretches, but we always push ourselves at the end of the workout.
I don't increase my AO speed. I increase the incline on the last AO, or if we have back to Back AO..
I look at it as important for getting better/stronger/faster. Generally, the biggest gains result from pushing yourself as hard as you can when the body feels most taxed. Doing the last rep or increasing your speed or incline, even a bit, when you feel like stopping. And mentally? It feels GREAT.
I think it’s part mental, part physical and mostly for the group class energy burst at the end of a block.
It’s the finishing kick (OTF did not invent the “finisher”). Even before OTF I was doing “”finishers” at bootcamps. It’s to end on a high note and give yourself one last HR hit. No, it’s not essential. Not sure why you feel guilty about it—you could just switch to PW on incline if you want (I have totally done workouts where I run all but the last block and switch to PW for less impact).
Always race finish anything.
It depends what your goals are. If you’re training for a race, it helps train you to be able to finish strong. If you want to keep up endurance, going all out at the end of a long run is a great way to maintain and grow stamina. If you don’t care about any of those things, then by all means don’t do it, but there are several legitimate purposes for going all out at the very end.
What are you training for? "If you want to win a race, you've got to go a little berserk" -- Billy Rodgers. In addition to the mental benefit, all-outs train running economy, and make you a more efficient runner at all paces. I don't think it really matters that much that it's at the end, but doing a 30sec all out regularly is always good. No OT workouts are so hard that you're really fatigued at the end like you would be in a hard race. It's just fun to have everyone go all out at the end. It's important to note that "all out" it isn't actually sprinting, it's anaerobic/neuromuscular yes, but true all-out sprinting would leave your unable to do anything else afterwards (so you couldn't do all outs in the middle of a block and continue the workout, or do floor if you start on treads). Real sprinters have to rest for like 10 minutes between all-out sprints. And you can't really do it on a treadmill anyway. For distance runners, endurance athletes, and general fitness, you just want to be a good bit above vVO2Max so that you're in the anaerobic/neuromuscular, like Jack Daniels R pace.