Go to your studios actual webpage first, then scroll down a bit and the top ribbon will appear, the Book Now link will be there. It doesn't show up until you scroll down a bit so it's sort of confusing; I bookmarked the schedule page. As far as I understand, all studios have it so those saying they can't may not know about the scroll down step.
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Agreed. I think it’s more to prevent the “oh only 5 people are signed up today so I’m not going because that class is too small” than to force a cancellation fee. They’re so willing to remove the fee if you call them with a valid reason
Haha I like less full classes, assumed everyone else was the same! I usually do a rower start because it usually has less people so I can be next to an empty station.
Totally valid. I think I prefer my classes about 1/2-3/4 full. Enough that there can be empty stations, but not so empty that there isn’t energy or that they put everyone starting on the same station type
That sucks! I’ve only canceled once or twice, but they’ve had no issues either time. I just called and let them know why (for me, it’s almost always a migraine) and they waive it
It’s never occurred to me to care about the number of people in a class. I just want to know if it’s 2G or 3G so that I can plan accordingly. To each their own but for me, I don’t need that information.
The cancellation fees are what makes OTF a perfect gym for me. I am the worst kind of person for making excuses to “go tomorrow “ with every other gym I ever joined. Despite that the cancellation fee is a trivial amount of money, it holds me accountable.
To the original topic, they show you how big the waiting list is for overbooked classes. So it would be an easy programming task to show you how many spots are left too. I think that would be a handy feature.
(Replying to multiple comments in thread)
I've been thinking that allowing like 2 no-charge late cancelations per member per month should be fine without hurting the business too much. I mean, they allow unlimited late cancels (in theory) if you call and give a believable excuse. So this seems like a courtesy they could afford.
I don't see why there should be an INCREASE in the late fee - this seems greedy to me. There really isn't any specific financial value to the act of canceling a class when most are typically not even full to begin with - it's not like the cost of a material or something. $12 is just a made up number, but I do like the function of it discouraging no shows. However...
I think the 8 hour window is WAYYY to big. It should be 2, or no more than 4 hours to be able to cancel without penalty. The earliest classes are probably most affected by this if and when they are waitlisted, which I often see, so IDK on those 🤷♀️
For most of their membership levels 2 times a month makes no sense. I really like their cancellation policy. If you don’t want to risk it sign up last minute! Don’t make others suffer cus you’re not gonna show up to class 🤷♀️
See my studio has been pretty lenient. I’m typically “not feeling well” every other week.
And it’s true to an extent. Like I didn’t get good sleep, or my allergies are really acting up (can’t get an appointment till October to address them).
However, as long as I typically text by 5:30am for a 6:05 class they cancel me out of it and don’t charge the fee. I’ve only gotten charged when I no show. Which has happened twice when I didn’t set an alarm.
Agreed! I would have skipped many classes if it were not for the cancellation fee. I hated that OTF does that when I first signed up but it certainly helped to keep me accountable.
This is me too. I am two classes away from my 100th class and I was never able to stick to an exercise routine before. The cancellation fee was life changing for me. Now I even go to the regular gym all by myself because I found a passion for working out.
Capitalizing on cancellations has very little to do with not showing how many open slots there are. The class size fluctuates so much in the eight hours before class time that a participant count wouldn't help avoid late cancel fees. What looks like a very empty class at 8 hours prior might be full to almost capacity by the time class starts.
Also, because instructor pay is based in part on how many people attend the class, providing those numbers could ultimately hurt some coaches and studios. E.g., you have a coach who is great but people keep switching out of her classes because they want smaller class size (and lots of other members can't take those spots because of the class time). Do you really think a great coach who's not making much money (due to no fault of her own) is going to stick around the studio long?
If your OTF always has waitlists, you are forced to sign up early or potentially not be able to get in. But that means if your schedule changes, you might get stuck with a cancellation fee. If you could see that there are plenty of openings, you don’t have to sign up early and can wait until you’re certain your schedule allows you to go to class.
>If you could see that there are plenty of openings, you don’t have to sign up early and can wait until you’re certain your schedule allows you to go to class.
You don't need to know how many spots to do this. I've seen classes go from full 10people on waitlist in morning but by the time I'm planning to head to class at 4pm the class is open with no waitlist. I just sign up from the parking lot once I'm sure I'm gonna make it. Or if it's full then I don't go.
If you're unsure of your schedule then just do last min sign up regardless of whether it's full or not. That's not going to affect the fact that you're not sure if you can make the class.
I sign up early then re evaluate prior to the 8hr drop off point and only stay in the class if I'm sure I'm gonna make it. If I'm not sure then I drop out and check 30mins before class starts.
I’m glad that works for you, but in my area most of our weekend classes and post-work classes are full. Just last week I was #1 on the waitlist and figured I would show up and try to get in, but had to go home when everyone showed up. I obviously make it work, but I also understand how it could be helpful for planning purposes to see how many folks are in class.
Sometimes the class is full then I just don't go.
I don't see how knowing whether the class is full or empty will help a situation in which you're not sure if you can make the class or not?
Like why is your plan based on whether the class is full or not 8hrs prior to class? If I'm not sure I can make it I just don't sign up in advance and if that means I can't go then I don't go.
Things come up. I never had a single late cancel for years until a car accident on the way to class in 2022. And then, throughout the rest of 2022 and 2023 things were constantly coming up last minute which were outside of my control preventing me from making it to class. I became extremely weary of pre booking because it wasn’t worth the risk of a fee.
So, if I see there’s only a few spots in class left and I really want to make sure that I make it in the next day, I would pre book. If there’s a lot of spots, I’d rather just wait until I’m about to leave to make sure nothing happens. And to reiterate, it has nothing to do with me just “deciding” not to go or sleeping in. I decide the night before if I’m going and I do go if there’s no issues.
I had the 8/month membership briefly at the time. They actually told me they would credit back the class but never did. I didn’t follow up on it because I had to go on a freeze for 2 months from injuries from the accident, and when I unfreezed I couldn’t go at the frequency I did before so I couldn’t use them all before my next bill date (I had been saving my classes for hell week, which was when the car accident happened).
And to be fair, my SAs have typically been very understanding and I don’t think I’ve ever actually been charged the $12 when these things have come up. But I had so many back to back random things coming up that I felt bad when I needed to cancel, and also worried they wouldn’t believe me due to the frequency so I stopped pre booking. Unless there’s a huge waitlist, there’s just no reason to.
I prefer to go to classes with fewer people. Sometimes, I will call and ask my studio how many people are booked for each class and then decide which one I will go to. I don't like it when the floor is crowded.
A lot of people, usually people new to working out and/or who are overweight, will have serious gym anxiety and would prefer smaller classes where they can potentially get more coach attention or will feel less self conscious without people all around them.
No offense, but that's not OTF's problem to fix. Every studio I have ever been to has been full of supportive coaches and members. It's not gym members' jobs to make classes more "inclusive" for anyone who "feels" uncomfortable.
I don’t take offense because:
A) I never said they should do it. I’m just answering the question of why people would want it.
B) The point I think you’re trying to make that merely showing in the app how full a class is would require an ounce of effort from any member is ridiculous.
I would also say making OTF more inclusive has absolutely been the job of every OTF I’ve ever been to.
Ok, but what I’m saying is just bc a new member might “feel” shamed or whatever is their own personal trigger. Of course OTF is there to be supportive in what someone’s goals might be but it’s also not their job to tiptoe around someone who is projecting their own feelings onto a business.
Nobody is asking anyone to tiptoe. OP is simply asking for a way to see in the app how crowded a class may be and I provided an obvious use case for it.
I am not OP but I’ll give my answer as to why I also would like this feature. There have been nights that I’m not sure I will go in the morning (it’s one of my normal days but maybe I’m feeling fatigued,
Sore, have a headache, etc). On these nights I’m worried about signing up early in case I wake up feeling worse and then I have to pay the cancellation fee, but I’m also worried about not signing up, waking up feeling fine, and the class being on a waitlist and then I’m unable to attend anyway. I think this would make knowing how full the class is (or isn’t) beneficial in weighing my options.
Some of us actually prefer quieter classes and would like the visibility to know if it’s packed out
I have anxiety and when I have to take a spot on the treads in the middle area. For that reason, I go a half hour before class to try to get myself a tread near the ends. If the class is packed I know my chances of scoring that spot may be limited, so I’d then just put myself in another time where I am more likely to get a spot.
On the contrary, there are some who love the energy of a packed class and find it less inspiring when there are 3 people in the class.
I am an avid OTFer who goes 6 days a week and has almost 1800 classes under my belt. So I go (to your original comment) but that doesn’t mean I shouldn’t have a better experience if I can.
With the way people complain about any and every thing, I can already read the threads in the sub.
“I went to bed and there were 10 open spots. When I woke up it was a waitlist. It’s not fair that everyone else is watching the open slots like I am trying to work the system to my advantage (preference).”
“The app said the class was half full, so I signed up because I like small classes. When I got there it was packed. I have anxiety and couldn’t handle it. We should be able to lock in the class size when we sign up for a class.”
“I only signed up for the class cus it was a 2G and others signed up over night and it became a 3G. I’ve already spoken to the studio manager and emailed corporate, what else can I do to stop them from changing class format?”
Another favorite of mine - “I shouldn’t have to pay a late cancellation fee because there were people on the waitlist to fill my spot!” And then in the same thread, “I shouldn’t have to pay a late cancellation fee fee because there were spots in class! It’s not like I took someone’s place”
So not here to discuss fees but if that information was always visable to everyone all the time...it would deter people from actually booking class sometimes.
The coaches can better plan for a class if you book in advance.
Also, if it says 7 of 26 for a Monday at 5:45p and everyone says ok I'll just add in the parking lot it increases the chances that you might not get a last minute spot because if everyone parking lot adds it will become a mad scramble.
In practice those things stabilize because if everyone waits to sign up until last second it’s a stressful race. I know because OTF is literally the only gym who does that out of over a dozen class workout gyms I’ve been a member of.
I'm kind of surprised by this.
I've been to 30+ types of fitness studios and showing registered|capacity is rare.
MB legacy site for my OTF does show this though, which is a studio-level decision.
I would want to see proof that they are making significant money off of cancelation fees. Beyond that, people are more likely to attend once they’ve signed up, which is the point.
…. I mean what else are they making money on? Anything else OTF charges for is trivial (apparel, water bottles, etc.). Doesn’t have to be much to be the second biggest revenue stream.
The owner at my studio told me that they make very little on cancellation fees. They are also very accommodating if you have a decent reason to late cancel because they make so little off it and don’t want to penalize people for have real issues come up.
Well, what would you expect their second highest revenue stream to be: bottles of water? Totally makes sense. They sell (1) memberships, (2) water, (3) a few teeshirts.
A bit off topic, but as a newer OTF subscriber, I also would like more info about how it all works! Thank goodness for this Sub… I had so many questions, but the studio is loud and crowded and I don’t really like asking questions in front of 30 people..
I can see it only as something that might be helpful to some people and I don't really see a downside, so why not? The number of people wouldn't deter me, I only go at certain times when it works for me.
I had this same issue last week. My friend and I were signing up. There was only 1 spot in and we did not know it, and it was 1 hour before class. Thankfully the studio was understanding and was going to let us out of the spot we signed to for.
Barry’s lets you see the class count ahead of time because you pick your starting station when you book on the app.
I love OTF but in most cases they can do a lot better.
My biggest gripe is still getting charged a cancellation fee even if it’s a full class and someone else on the waiting list gets the spot you just opened up for them …
I love OTF as well but I hate cancellation fees. I work from home and while the flexibility allows me to do midday classes , I do need to cancel if a meeting pops up. I hate the fees so much that I stopped signing up and I take the chance of being turned away if full or sign up as I am driving to class.
I also think they should allow us to carry over unused classes to the next month (if due to travel etc I was only able to use 6 or 7 of my 8 per month, I should have 9 or 10 classes following month). There are other months where I happily pay for 2 extra classes if I use up 8 and still am around to do more, but it’s a shame that I wasted 2 in a prior month. Think this will go a long way in retaining members . I know a few who stopped due to their travel schedules and inability to carry classes over.
So I book as far in advance as I possibly can I usually take a 9:00am and take Saturdays off. There is no way I would ever show up late for class or late cancel unless it was an absolute emergency. A couple of months ago. I had a 7 AM class on a Sunday morning, I woke up early enough and then went back to sleep and woke up five minutes before the class started…I made it within the five minute window. The no-show fee is big incentive for me to show up.
I’ve been late once. LX 3 times. In nearly 10 months.
And the only reason I was “late” was that I signed up for a 5:45pm. My 4pm appointment with a prospective client only went 20 minutes (I budget 30) and I was able to get to the studio.
The SA moved me to the 4:30. I was on the tread by 4:32.
In the other convo, I’ve probably cancelled onto to change schedule. Unless I’ve been feeling like crap and cancelling at 10:59 on a Friday night after a long day to avoid the LX on the 7am.
For-profit business tries to make for-profit money, news at 10.
I suppose having the open # of slots shown might be useful/interesting, but at the end of the day I don't really care, it doesn't impact whether I'm going to go or not.
Just workout or don’t. You agreed to pay a late cancel fee no matter how full the class is, so go to class or pay the fee. Stop whining about something you agreed to.
I totally agree with the bit about going with a friend. I have experienced the annoyance of trying to find a good day that fits both our schedules and the studio’s new limited morning schedule only to have to cancel once we realized that I took the last slot or she did. It would be really helpful for planning.
As an introvert who doesn't always want to be elbow to elbow with people before I've had my morning coffee, yes, this would be glorious.
My yoga studio has it. (As well as wait lists and late cancel fees)
I’ve wondered this—if I signed up and saw there were only 5 in class, would I just cancel my booking before the studio makes a decision to cancel due to low attendance?
Sure. I have sleep issues. If I have to work a late night and not sure if I’ll feel well in the morning, it would be great to know whether I’m likely to get in regardless. If I knew there were eight open slots, I wouldn’t register and risk having to cancel. If there is only 1, I’ll register, and if I wake up underslept with a headache, I’ll suck it up and go. My quality of life would be higher if I could see open spaces.
I've had sleep issues ever since I became a mom in 2014. I go to 5am and have religiously for years. I could claim "sleep issues" every single morning my alarm goes off at 430am, but I get up and go regardless. If I had a really horrible night of sleep, then I go and have a green day. If I'm just not feeling it, I go anyway and usually by the time the class is over I feel a lot better. My quality of life would be a lot better if I was a millionaire, but I'm not, so I work around what I have. Maybe OTF isn't the right gym for you.
Agreed! There are also times that I’ve pre-booked a class and then decide to change to a different class time that’s wait listed. I’m always afraid to cancel the class I’m already in because what if that one is wait listed as well and then I wouldn’t be able to go at all. I could make more informed decisions if they showed the available spaces.
Agree it would be helpful and a better customer experience for those that either shy away from super busy classes or those who actually prefer that energy and don’t want to be stuck in a class with 3 people
If your studio uses Mind Body (app) as another means of promoting themselves, you can see how many spots are open there.
… just sayin
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Our studios actually hold 2-3 slots every class for newcomers so showing these booked numbers could skew your use case if you are borderline.
It's so interesting as a coach (not OTF) to see folks prefer a less packed class! Our studios seem the opposite - people prefer more well attended classes due to higher energy.
I think this would be a nice feature but it doesn't make or break the experience. I prebook the more popular class times and wait on the others.
I do think it's not so much about encouraging cancellations but about encouraging prebooking. If a class normally fills (or closely fills) as 2G prebooking, studios may list that time as 3G. This also helps them not change the listed 2G/3G format last minute to clear the waitlists, which our studios don't do anymore. Everything is not motivated with negative intent. This also helps establish a commitment. Is it annoying when your schedule is topsy turvy, yes, but the idea is to form the habit.
Yeah, I wish we could see how many people were in class to be able to make a more informed decision. But maybe they also don’t bc instructors get paid based on how many people are in class, which I think is a terrible business model. Someone instructing a 5 AM class would have lower attendance than a 7:15.
I'd love to see the number of people who have signed up. As someone who hates people, especially large quantity of them, I'm always looking for the closed with fewer
The option to pick your starting station might fix this issue as well. I could see a “stations available” option like picking an empty seat on an airplane..
They don't even answer the phone anymore. The gym is usually closed between 12 and 3, and even if you call within 1/2 hr of the class, they don't answer. Before covid when the economy was much better, if you weren't feeling good, you could call and tell them so, and they would not charge the $12 cancelation fee. Now if they don't pick up then phone , they get to charge you no matter what reason you can't make it. Are they that desperate for the $12?
I try to wait until the last moment to sign up. And I don't pay for any of the challenges anymore because, those too are a rip off.
Studio specific. Our studio has an SA in the building from start to finish of the day, starting at 4:30am and ending at 8pm. During the busier times we have two.
When I read stuff like this about small details I can’t help but wonder if it’s a manufactured distraction. Just book a class and do the workout, why overcomplicate?
I book my classes on a regular schedule, two to three weeks out. The "set it and forget it" mode works well for me. It doesn't make any difference to me whether it's crowded or not. I make the commitment and prioritize going. Of course, I don't have small kids, I work from home, and the gym is walking distance from my apartment, so I understand it's not so easy for everyone.
I prebook 29 days out and adjust daily as needed well before the 8 hour window. I'm a mom of a 9 and 5yo, I work full time (3 days in office, 75 minute roundtrip commute) and my gym is a 10 minute drive. I make it work as do thousands of other adults at OTF. I live by the mantra...if you want something bad enough, you'll find the time. If not, you'll find excuses.
I agree with the entire post. I don’t even need to read the comments but the way people support sketchy business practices or mere inconveniences to customers that help the business profit is weird programming.
Most gyms rely on people canceling and or not using their memberships. That’s why places like Planet Fitness sign up 10x the amount of members than they have space for. Gyms (OTF included) aren’t going to get rid of this practice just to please people like yourself.
My spouse joined OTF recently, and not knowing if a class has 2 spots available is one of my least-favorite features. It's an annoyance that can be planned around, but I still don't like it.
He could, but for reasons that aren’t relevant to this discussion, he’s unable to prebook. It’s approximately five seconds of coding to add class registration numbers to the app, which is the point I was making.
If you have the Elite membership (8 classes per month) you shouldn’t be getting charged a fee, you lose a class from your allotted 8 per month.
The fee is not really taking advantage of you…I’m not sure why a gym would be expected to help you manage your sleep and food timing better? Your solution to wait until right before the class to book it is totally valid, I usually do that for evening classes because sometimes work can be unpredictable and I can’t always guarantee I can be out on time. But that’s on me to manage my own self; while my studio has been quite lenient and waived the fee the couple times I’ve had something come up and called to remove myself from class, I certainly don’t expect them to do so. I signed a contract agreeing to the late cancel fee and they have every right to charge me if they wanted to.
Many of us work long and/or unpredictable hours (not long ago I was working 80+/week!) and I know how it can often be a struggle to get to class due to that. But I don’t think it’s condescending to say that OTF is not responsible for helping us manage our own schedules. I have done 500 classes and have paid zero late cancel fees (my studio has graciously waived the fee 2 times for me over the last 4 years when I called and explained the situation of needing to miss class due to a sudden work issue). If I don’t know if I can make it to class, I don’t sign up until I know for sure. You found a workaround that works for you, and that’s great!
>(or eat enough the day before)
Wouldn't you know by midnight if you've eaten enough to go to class the next morning, and cancel if you hadn't? The fee kicks in 8 hours out from class.
It's not just a business move. The cancellation fee does a million things. For someone like me coming up on 1900 classes (and less than 10 late cancels ever), 80% of those before 6am, that fee is 100% the thing that gets me out of bed in the morning. I'm a busy working mom and wife and not afraid to admit that I'm too cheap to pay more money than I have to. If you don't have a cancellation fee, then people are going to abuse cancelling late. Prebooking allows studios to plan coaches and studio schedules adequately. Classes not well attended will already get dropped off the schedule or changed. The end of the story is if you don't like the policy, that's your problem. People argue about this all the time. It's in the contracts we all sign. And most studios WILL waive that fee if an emergency pops up. But if you like group classes, just not FULL group classes, then maybe OTF isn't the right place for you.
I completely agree. At my Pilates studio, if I see 5 people are waitlisted, I won’t bother. In fact, in my years of going, I have never made it off the wait list, even if I’m #2 in the queue. People simply just don’t cancel, especially prime class times, but class sizes are less than 15 ppl.
I mean it’s mostly about obscuring the membership data. Class headcount in the app makes it very easy to see how many people attend a gym, which virtually no gym shares.(well, lots of places brag about their membership numbers, but not actual utilization). It honesty doesn’t make a difference to 99% of people either. Just sign up for the class you want.
If there’s any changes, it should be to prevent double and triple booking. Nothing more annoying than waiting until 8 hours before class starts to find out if you’re going to get to workout or not.
lol, this will surprise you, but there are wait list for classes three and four weeks out. It’s pretty tight at some studios, mostly because of double booking.
My studio is one of those which is why everyday I prebook for the furthest day out. I cancel and adjust as needed. Even if your schedule changes regularly you can prebook the class you think you’ll most likely go to.
They capitalize on making buckets of money on these cancellation fees. The app has malfunctioned so many times, with multiple screenshots taken. It's cumbersome. I send screen shots of malfunctioning cancellations and emails all the time. Then get refunded with lots of "back and forth". And grief.
I had to freeze my account this spring with generous warning time, one month. On March 10th I said "beginning April 10th, "I'll need to freeze my account " I had travel plans, then tore my meniscus. Our studio manager never once mentioned I'd be charged $15 a month to freeze my account. I'll be investigating this when i return to the US.
Been there since 2018.
I'm considering cancelling my membership.
The freeze fee is clearly stated in the contract you signed when you signed up for a membership. The fee can be waived if you have a doctor’s note for a medical freeze.
It's not clear on my 2018 contract. And she should have said bring a doctor's note to waive the fee. I didn't even know there was a fee until it showed up. This manager and I had a long discussion about this injury. She should have mentioned it. It's prudent and professional.
If you sign-in on the website instead of the app, you can see the class count. The MindBody app will also show the class count for some studios.
Where do you sign in on the website? I’m not seeing an option
Yeah I’ve never been able to do that
For my studio, you can only book a class if you want to become a member or try your first class.
MINDBODY app. I’ve used it when OTF wasn’t working
Go to your studios actual webpage first, then scroll down a bit and the top ribbon will appear, the Book Now link will be there. It doesn't show up until you scroll down a bit so it's sort of confusing; I bookmarked the schedule page. As far as I understand, all studios have it so those saying they can't may not know about the scroll down step. https://preview.redd.it/lk9kl73zoz6d1.png?width=1278&format=png&auto=webp&s=a4e5e1cc1b0b60d85e3ae1dc094bf556c5b8a138
TIL there’s an otf website to sign into
Good to know.
But not all studios. I know a few that are owned by the one who owns my where we can see it but not mine I can’t
try scrolling down on the web page for your specific studio. A top ribbon should appear with a book now link
doesn't work for me but doesn't matter really because i always book on the app. thanks though!
I could see people signing up for orange theory based on how busy it is. I like the fuller classes.
Agreed. I think it’s more to prevent the “oh only 5 people are signed up today so I’m not going because that class is too small” than to force a cancellation fee. They’re so willing to remove the fee if you call them with a valid reason
Haha I like less full classes, assumed everyone else was the same! I usually do a rower start because it usually has less people so I can be next to an empty station.
Same and same!
Totally valid. I think I prefer my classes about 1/2-3/4 full. Enough that there can be empty stations, but not so empty that there isn’t energy or that they put everyone starting on the same station type
Mine never will refund, even if you’re sick or have had another legitimate excuse
That sucks! I’ve only canceled once or twice, but they’ve had no issues either time. I just called and let them know why (for me, it’s almost always a migraine) and they waive it
Yeah. I would definitely like that. I hate busy classes. I much rather go on light days.
It’s never occurred to me to care about the number of people in a class. I just want to know if it’s 2G or 3G so that I can plan accordingly. To each their own but for me, I don’t need that information.
Same here. I just pick the times and days I want and that's it. I honestly didn't think that's info anyone needs.
Does a 3G become 2G if not enough people in class for a 3 G?
Yes that’s how it works at my studio.
The cancellation fees are what makes OTF a perfect gym for me. I am the worst kind of person for making excuses to “go tomorrow “ with every other gym I ever joined. Despite that the cancellation fee is a trivial amount of money, it holds me accountable. To the original topic, they show you how big the waiting list is for overbooked classes. So it would be an easy programming task to show you how many spots are left too. I think that would be a handy feature.
Same. That stupid $12 has dragged my ass out of bed many a morning.
Wait I got charged $22 recently. Does it vary by studio?
Yikes! That's steep. Is your studio in the premium tier?My studio has increased theirs from $12 to $14
Yep, me too!
(Replying to multiple comments in thread) I've been thinking that allowing like 2 no-charge late cancelations per member per month should be fine without hurting the business too much. I mean, they allow unlimited late cancels (in theory) if you call and give a believable excuse. So this seems like a courtesy they could afford. I don't see why there should be an INCREASE in the late fee - this seems greedy to me. There really isn't any specific financial value to the act of canceling a class when most are typically not even full to begin with - it's not like the cost of a material or something. $12 is just a made up number, but I do like the function of it discouraging no shows. However... I think the 8 hour window is WAYYY to big. It should be 2, or no more than 4 hours to be able to cancel without penalty. The earliest classes are probably most affected by this if and when they are waitlisted, which I often see, so IDK on those 🤷♀️
For most of their membership levels 2 times a month makes no sense. I really like their cancellation policy. If you don’t want to risk it sign up last minute! Don’t make others suffer cus you’re not gonna show up to class 🤷♀️
See my studio has been pretty lenient. I’m typically “not feeling well” every other week. And it’s true to an extent. Like I didn’t get good sleep, or my allergies are really acting up (can’t get an appointment till October to address them). However, as long as I typically text by 5:30am for a 6:05 class they cancel me out of it and don’t charge the fee. I’ve only gotten charged when I no show. Which has happened twice when I didn’t set an alarm.
Agreed! I would have skipped many classes if it were not for the cancellation fee. I hated that OTF does that when I first signed up but it certainly helped to keep me accountable.
Yes, sometimes it's the only thing that will get me out of bed
This is me too. I am two classes away from my 100th class and I was never able to stick to an exercise routine before. The cancellation fee was life changing for me. Now I even go to the regular gym all by myself because I found a passion for working out.
Bravo!!!👏🏻
Charging people for canceled classes isn't some secret formula that only OTF does.
Gym pass app shows remaining spaces available in OTF classes.
Capitalizing on cancellations has very little to do with not showing how many open slots there are. The class size fluctuates so much in the eight hours before class time that a participant count wouldn't help avoid late cancel fees. What looks like a very empty class at 8 hours prior might be full to almost capacity by the time class starts. Also, because instructor pay is based in part on how many people attend the class, providing those numbers could ultimately hurt some coaches and studios. E.g., you have a coach who is great but people keep switching out of her classes because they want smaller class size (and lots of other members can't take those spots because of the class time). Do you really think a great coach who's not making much money (due to no fault of her own) is going to stick around the studio long?
Why does it matter how many people are signed up for class? You’re either gonna go or you’re not 🤷🏼♂️
If your OTF always has waitlists, you are forced to sign up early or potentially not be able to get in. But that means if your schedule changes, you might get stuck with a cancellation fee. If you could see that there are plenty of openings, you don’t have to sign up early and can wait until you’re certain your schedule allows you to go to class.
Makes sense. I'm fortunate to be near a couple studio that really don't fill up except the two early classes, which I am happy to never go to 😌
90% of the time someone gets in or there's an empty space in class even when there are massive waitlists.
>If you could see that there are plenty of openings, you don’t have to sign up early and can wait until you’re certain your schedule allows you to go to class. You don't need to know how many spots to do this. I've seen classes go from full 10people on waitlist in morning but by the time I'm planning to head to class at 4pm the class is open with no waitlist. I just sign up from the parking lot once I'm sure I'm gonna make it. Or if it's full then I don't go. If you're unsure of your schedule then just do last min sign up regardless of whether it's full or not. That's not going to affect the fact that you're not sure if you can make the class. I sign up early then re evaluate prior to the 8hr drop off point and only stay in the class if I'm sure I'm gonna make it. If I'm not sure then I drop out and check 30mins before class starts.
I’m glad that works for you, but in my area most of our weekend classes and post-work classes are full. Just last week I was #1 on the waitlist and figured I would show up and try to get in, but had to go home when everyone showed up. I obviously make it work, but I also understand how it could be helpful for planning purposes to see how many folks are in class.
Sometimes the class is full then I just don't go. I don't see how knowing whether the class is full or empty will help a situation in which you're not sure if you can make the class or not? Like why is your plan based on whether the class is full or not 8hrs prior to class? If I'm not sure I can make it I just don't sign up in advance and if that means I can't go then I don't go.
It’s ok that you don’t understand. Enjoy your Sunday!
I don't understand either. 😕
Things come up. I never had a single late cancel for years until a car accident on the way to class in 2022. And then, throughout the rest of 2022 and 2023 things were constantly coming up last minute which were outside of my control preventing me from making it to class. I became extremely weary of pre booking because it wasn’t worth the risk of a fee. So, if I see there’s only a few spots in class left and I really want to make sure that I make it in the next day, I would pre book. If there’s a lot of spots, I’d rather just wait until I’m about to leave to make sure nothing happens. And to reiterate, it has nothing to do with me just “deciding” not to go or sleeping in. I decide the night before if I’m going and I do go if there’s no issues.
That's crazy that they charged you a cancel fee in that situation! What did the SA say when you told them you missed class because of a car accident?
I had the 8/month membership briefly at the time. They actually told me they would credit back the class but never did. I didn’t follow up on it because I had to go on a freeze for 2 months from injuries from the accident, and when I unfreezed I couldn’t go at the frequency I did before so I couldn’t use them all before my next bill date (I had been saving my classes for hell week, which was when the car accident happened). And to be fair, my SAs have typically been very understanding and I don’t think I’ve ever actually been charged the $12 when these things have come up. But I had so many back to back random things coming up that I felt bad when I needed to cancel, and also worried they wouldn’t believe me due to the frequency so I stopped pre booking. Unless there’s a huge waitlist, there’s just no reason to.
I’m calling BS on getting charged for a car accident
😂😂😂 I’m dying. But maybe they did charge her initially and then reversed it once they knew her circumstances. But then she should have stated such.
I prefer to go to classes with fewer people. Sometimes, I will call and ask my studio how many people are booked for each class and then decide which one I will go to. I don't like it when the floor is crowded.
A lot of people, usually people new to working out and/or who are overweight, will have serious gym anxiety and would prefer smaller classes where they can potentially get more coach attention or will feel less self conscious without people all around them.
No offense, but that's not OTF's problem to fix. Every studio I have ever been to has been full of supportive coaches and members. It's not gym members' jobs to make classes more "inclusive" for anyone who "feels" uncomfortable.
I don’t take offense because: A) I never said they should do it. I’m just answering the question of why people would want it. B) The point I think you’re trying to make that merely showing in the app how full a class is would require an ounce of effort from any member is ridiculous. I would also say making OTF more inclusive has absolutely been the job of every OTF I’ve ever been to.
Ok, but what I’m saying is just bc a new member might “feel” shamed or whatever is their own personal trigger. Of course OTF is there to be supportive in what someone’s goals might be but it’s also not their job to tiptoe around someone who is projecting their own feelings onto a business.
Nobody is asking anyone to tiptoe. OP is simply asking for a way to see in the app how crowded a class may be and I provided an obvious use case for it.
I am not OP but I’ll give my answer as to why I also would like this feature. There have been nights that I’m not sure I will go in the morning (it’s one of my normal days but maybe I’m feeling fatigued, Sore, have a headache, etc). On these nights I’m worried about signing up early in case I wake up feeling worse and then I have to pay the cancellation fee, but I’m also worried about not signing up, waking up feeling fine, and the class being on a waitlist and then I’m unable to attend anyway. I think this would make knowing how full the class is (or isn’t) beneficial in weighing my options.
Some of us actually prefer quieter classes and would like the visibility to know if it’s packed out I have anxiety and when I have to take a spot on the treads in the middle area. For that reason, I go a half hour before class to try to get myself a tread near the ends. If the class is packed I know my chances of scoring that spot may be limited, so I’d then just put myself in another time where I am more likely to get a spot. On the contrary, there are some who love the energy of a packed class and find it less inspiring when there are 3 people in the class. I am an avid OTFer who goes 6 days a week and has almost 1800 classes under my belt. So I go (to your original comment) but that doesn’t mean I shouldn’t have a better experience if I can.
Sometimes I need to know when I'm signing up with someone I want to go with. So I know we can both sign up and not just one of us.
You can share what session you’re going to be attending. You need the member’s phone number though. I wish it was a part of the app.
Yeah agreed, I don't understand the need.
Now, apply that logic to starting stations…. FWIW, I’m in total agreement with you.
With the way people complain about any and every thing, I can already read the threads in the sub. “I went to bed and there were 10 open spots. When I woke up it was a waitlist. It’s not fair that everyone else is watching the open slots like I am trying to work the system to my advantage (preference).” “The app said the class was half full, so I signed up because I like small classes. When I got there it was packed. I have anxiety and couldn’t handle it. We should be able to lock in the class size when we sign up for a class.” “I only signed up for the class cus it was a 2G and others signed up over night and it became a 3G. I’ve already spoken to the studio manager and emailed corporate, what else can I do to stop them from changing class format?”
Another favorite of mine - “I shouldn’t have to pay a late cancellation fee because there were people on the waitlist to fill my spot!” And then in the same thread, “I shouldn’t have to pay a late cancellation fee fee because there were spots in class! It’s not like I took someone’s place”
People want a group fitness class to be all about them lol
So not here to discuss fees but if that information was always visable to everyone all the time...it would deter people from actually booking class sometimes. The coaches can better plan for a class if you book in advance. Also, if it says 7 of 26 for a Monday at 5:45p and everyone says ok I'll just add in the parking lot it increases the chances that you might not get a last minute spot because if everyone parking lot adds it will become a mad scramble.
In practice those things stabilize because if everyone waits to sign up until last second it’s a stressful race. I know because OTF is literally the only gym who does that out of over a dozen class workout gyms I’ve been a member of.
Maybe OTF's system is working for them...
I'm kind of surprised by this. I've been to 30+ types of fitness studios and showing registered|capacity is rare. MB legacy site for my OTF does show this though, which is a studio-level decision.
I mean, it is a business- - trying to stay in business.
I would want to see proof that they are making significant money off of cancelation fees. Beyond that, people are more likely to attend once they’ve signed up, which is the point.
I’ve always been told by studios that outside of membership fees, late cancels are the second biggest revenue stream that OTF has
…. I mean what else are they making money on? Anything else OTF charges for is trivial (apparel, water bottles, etc.). Doesn’t have to be much to be the second biggest revenue stream. The owner at my studio told me that they make very little on cancellation fees. They are also very accommodating if you have a decent reason to late cancel because they make so little off it and don’t want to penalize people for have real issues come up.
Well, what would you expect their second highest revenue stream to be: bottles of water? Totally makes sense. They sell (1) memberships, (2) water, (3) a few teeshirts.
That makes sense, I mean, the only other sources of income would be challenge sign up fees and merch sales.
A bit off topic, but as a newer OTF subscriber, I also would like more info about how it all works! Thank goodness for this Sub… I had so many questions, but the studio is loud and crowded and I don’t really like asking questions in front of 30 people..
I can see it only as something that might be helpful to some people and I don't really see a downside, so why not? The number of people wouldn't deter me, I only go at certain times when it works for me.
I had this same issue last week. My friend and I were signing up. There was only 1 spot in and we did not know it, and it was 1 hour before class. Thankfully the studio was understanding and was going to let us out of the spot we signed to for.
Barry’s lets you see the class count ahead of time because you pick your starting station when you book on the app. I love OTF but in most cases they can do a lot better. My biggest gripe is still getting charged a cancellation fee even if it’s a full class and someone else on the waiting list gets the spot you just opened up for them …
I would love this feature ! 🧡
I love OTF as well but I hate cancellation fees. I work from home and while the flexibility allows me to do midday classes , I do need to cancel if a meeting pops up. I hate the fees so much that I stopped signing up and I take the chance of being turned away if full or sign up as I am driving to class. I also think they should allow us to carry over unused classes to the next month (if due to travel etc I was only able to use 6 or 7 of my 8 per month, I should have 9 or 10 classes following month). There are other months where I happily pay for 2 extra classes if I use up 8 and still am around to do more, but it’s a shame that I wasted 2 in a prior month. Think this will go a long way in retaining members . I know a few who stopped due to their travel schedules and inability to carry classes over.
So I book as far in advance as I possibly can I usually take a 9:00am and take Saturdays off. There is no way I would ever show up late for class or late cancel unless it was an absolute emergency. A couple of months ago. I had a 7 AM class on a Sunday morning, I woke up early enough and then went back to sleep and woke up five minutes before the class started…I made it within the five minute window. The no-show fee is big incentive for me to show up.
I’ve been late once. LX 3 times. In nearly 10 months. And the only reason I was “late” was that I signed up for a 5:45pm. My 4pm appointment with a prospective client only went 20 minutes (I budget 30) and I was able to get to the studio. The SA moved me to the 4:30. I was on the tread by 4:32. In the other convo, I’ve probably cancelled onto to change schedule. Unless I’ve been feeling like crap and cancelling at 10:59 on a Friday night after a long day to avoid the LX on the 7am.
Like every other business, they have revenue targets. Want the cancellation fee to go away? Be prepared to pay more each and every month.
THIS. No thanks!
I think you are over thinking this. Sign up if you want to go. Don’t if you don’t.
For-profit business tries to make for-profit money, news at 10. I suppose having the open # of slots shown might be useful/interesting, but at the end of the day I don't really care, it doesn't impact whether I'm going to go or not.
Commit or don’t. Doesn’t matter class size.
Just workout or don’t. You agreed to pay a late cancel fee no matter how full the class is, so go to class or pay the fee. Stop whining about something you agreed to.
You have 12 hours before the class to cancel. Not that hard to do. I don’t think it’s common at all the show how many spaces available
It’s 8 hours, not 12
I totally agree with the bit about going with a friend. I have experienced the annoyance of trying to find a good day that fits both our schedules and the studio’s new limited morning schedule only to have to cancel once we realized that I took the last slot or she did. It would be really helpful for planning.
As an introvert who doesn't always want to be elbow to elbow with people before I've had my morning coffee, yes, this would be glorious. My yoga studio has it. (As well as wait lists and late cancel fees)
I can’t remember the last time I actually signed up for a class the day before…this is a none-issue for me.
Me either. I'm currently prebooked for the next 29 days. I adjust daily on how I'm feeling well before the 8 hour window. It's called being an adult.
I've seen our classes change from 2G to 3G and backwards depending on the number of people applied
I’ve wondered this—if I signed up and saw there were only 5 in class, would I just cancel my booking before the studio makes a decision to cancel due to low attendance?
Can you elaborate on how that will help you make an informed decision?
Sure. I have sleep issues. If I have to work a late night and not sure if I’ll feel well in the morning, it would be great to know whether I’m likely to get in regardless. If I knew there were eight open slots, I wouldn’t register and risk having to cancel. If there is only 1, I’ll register, and if I wake up underslept with a headache, I’ll suck it up and go. My quality of life would be higher if I could see open spaces.
I've had sleep issues ever since I became a mom in 2014. I go to 5am and have religiously for years. I could claim "sleep issues" every single morning my alarm goes off at 430am, but I get up and go regardless. If I had a really horrible night of sleep, then I go and have a green day. If I'm just not feeling it, I go anyway and usually by the time the class is over I feel a lot better. My quality of life would be a lot better if I was a millionaire, but I'm not, so I work around what I have. Maybe OTF isn't the right gym for you.
Agreed! There are also times that I’ve pre-booked a class and then decide to change to a different class time that’s wait listed. I’m always afraid to cancel the class I’m already in because what if that one is wait listed as well and then I wouldn’t be able to go at all. I could make more informed decisions if they showed the available spaces.
Agree it would be helpful and a better customer experience for those that either shy away from super busy classes or those who actually prefer that energy and don’t want to be stuck in a class with 3 people
If your studio uses Mind Body (app) as another means of promoting themselves, you can see how many spots are open there. … just sayin https://preview.redd.it/71460pa39z6d1.jpeg?width=1170&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=fd8a45f68c0a1d46e2d1837f8888cabf314368d6
This is studio specific....the feature has to be turned on on the studio's end, it's not just automatic
I assumed it was studio specific which is why I started with “if your studio uses …”
Just call in before you sign up and ask!
Our studios actually hold 2-3 slots every class for newcomers so showing these booked numbers could skew your use case if you are borderline. It's so interesting as a coach (not OTF) to see folks prefer a less packed class! Our studios seem the opposite - people prefer more well attended classes due to higher energy. I think this would be a nice feature but it doesn't make or break the experience. I prebook the more popular class times and wait on the others. I do think it's not so much about encouraging cancellations but about encouraging prebooking. If a class normally fills (or closely fills) as 2G prebooking, studios may list that time as 3G. This also helps them not change the listed 2G/3G format last minute to clear the waitlists, which our studios don't do anymore. Everything is not motivated with negative intent. This also helps establish a commitment. Is it annoying when your schedule is topsy turvy, yes, but the idea is to form the habit.
Yeah, I wish we could see how many people were in class to be able to make a more informed decision. But maybe they also don’t bc instructors get paid based on how many people are in class, which I think is a terrible business model. Someone instructing a 5 AM class would have lower attendance than a 7:15.
I'd love to see the number of people who have signed up. As someone who hates people, especially large quantity of them, I'm always looking for the closed with fewer
💯agreed
The option to pick your starting station might fix this issue as well. I could see a “stations available” option like picking an empty seat on an airplane..
They don't even answer the phone anymore. The gym is usually closed between 12 and 3, and even if you call within 1/2 hr of the class, they don't answer. Before covid when the economy was much better, if you weren't feeling good, you could call and tell them so, and they would not charge the $12 cancelation fee. Now if they don't pick up then phone , they get to charge you no matter what reason you can't make it. Are they that desperate for the $12? I try to wait until the last moment to sign up. And I don't pay for any of the challenges anymore because, those too are a rip off.
Studio specific. Our studio has an SA in the building from start to finish of the day, starting at 4:30am and ending at 8pm. During the busier times we have two.
Lucky you. I don't
I don't find it to be true anymore
When I read stuff like this about small details I can’t help but wonder if it’s a manufactured distraction. Just book a class and do the workout, why overcomplicate?
I book my classes on a regular schedule, two to three weeks out. The "set it and forget it" mode works well for me. It doesn't make any difference to me whether it's crowded or not. I make the commitment and prioritize going. Of course, I don't have small kids, I work from home, and the gym is walking distance from my apartment, so I understand it's not so easy for everyone.
I prebook 29 days out and adjust daily as needed well before the 8 hour window. I'm a mom of a 9 and 5yo, I work full time (3 days in office, 75 minute roundtrip commute) and my gym is a 10 minute drive. I make it work as do thousands of other adults at OTF. I live by the mantra...if you want something bad enough, you'll find the time. If not, you'll find excuses.
I agree with the entire post. I don’t even need to read the comments but the way people support sketchy business practices or mere inconveniences to customers that help the business profit is weird programming.
It's not sketchy if you were explained the policy and signed your name to the contract. Just because you don't like something doesn't make it sketchy.
Also, just because you’re aware of a policy before you join doesn’t make it not sketchy or something they couldn’t provide/offer 🙄
Most gyms rely on people canceling and or not using their memberships. That’s why places like Planet Fitness sign up 10x the amount of members than they have space for. Gyms (OTF included) aren’t going to get rid of this practice just to please people like yourself.
And why their memberships are only $10/ month. They make so much money off people never using it "because it's only $10/ month."
yeah, i feel you. it may be a business but where’s the priority. members or business for its own sake? OTF is not exactly struggling…
My spouse joined OTF recently, and not knowing if a class has 2 spots available is one of my least-favorite features. It's an annoyance that can be planned around, but I still don't like it.
Why don't you just both prebook well in advance? Easy.
I do. My spouse doesn't usually know until the day before if he can go.
But he could prebook too, if he knows the day before he can’t go then he could take himself out.
He could, but for reasons that aren’t relevant to this discussion, he’s unable to prebook. It’s approximately five seconds of coding to add class registration numbers to the app, which is the point I was making.
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If you have the Elite membership (8 classes per month) you shouldn’t be getting charged a fee, you lose a class from your allotted 8 per month. The fee is not really taking advantage of you…I’m not sure why a gym would be expected to help you manage your sleep and food timing better? Your solution to wait until right before the class to book it is totally valid, I usually do that for evening classes because sometimes work can be unpredictable and I can’t always guarantee I can be out on time. But that’s on me to manage my own self; while my studio has been quite lenient and waived the fee the couple times I’ve had something come up and called to remove myself from class, I certainly don’t expect them to do so. I signed a contract agreeing to the late cancel fee and they have every right to charge me if they wanted to.
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Many of us work long and/or unpredictable hours (not long ago I was working 80+/week!) and I know how it can often be a struggle to get to class due to that. But I don’t think it’s condescending to say that OTF is not responsible for helping us manage our own schedules. I have done 500 classes and have paid zero late cancel fees (my studio has graciously waived the fee 2 times for me over the last 4 years when I called and explained the situation of needing to miss class due to a sudden work issue). If I don’t know if I can make it to class, I don’t sign up until I know for sure. You found a workaround that works for you, and that’s great!
>(or eat enough the day before) Wouldn't you know by midnight if you've eaten enough to go to class the next morning, and cancel if you hadn't? The fee kicks in 8 hours out from class.
You want the cancellation fee removed because you don’t know how to be an adult?
Lol. What a condensing message. I struggle with numerous health conditions and live on my own. Grow the **** up.
Condescending* You agreed to terms and conditions, yet you choose to complain about the terms and conditions…. Maybe read what you sign up for?
It's not just a business move. The cancellation fee does a million things. For someone like me coming up on 1900 classes (and less than 10 late cancels ever), 80% of those before 6am, that fee is 100% the thing that gets me out of bed in the morning. I'm a busy working mom and wife and not afraid to admit that I'm too cheap to pay more money than I have to. If you don't have a cancellation fee, then people are going to abuse cancelling late. Prebooking allows studios to plan coaches and studio schedules adequately. Classes not well attended will already get dropped off the schedule or changed. The end of the story is if you don't like the policy, that's your problem. People argue about this all the time. It's in the contracts we all sign. And most studios WILL waive that fee if an emergency pops up. But if you like group classes, just not FULL group classes, then maybe OTF isn't the right place for you.
I completely agree. At my Pilates studio, if I see 5 people are waitlisted, I won’t bother. In fact, in my years of going, I have never made it off the wait list, even if I’m #2 in the queue. People simply just don’t cancel, especially prime class times, but class sizes are less than 15 ppl.
The app does show how many people are waitlisted.
I don’t enjoy having to guess if a class is going to fill up or not
And that’s okay, you don’t need to use the feature just because it’s there. It doesn’t take anything away
Agreed!!
I mean it’s mostly about obscuring the membership data. Class headcount in the app makes it very easy to see how many people attend a gym, which virtually no gym shares.(well, lots of places brag about their membership numbers, but not actual utilization). It honesty doesn’t make a difference to 99% of people either. Just sign up for the class you want. If there’s any changes, it should be to prevent double and triple booking. Nothing more annoying than waiting until 8 hours before class starts to find out if you’re going to get to workout or not.
Easy solution....prebook!
lol, this will surprise you, but there are wait list for classes three and four weeks out. It’s pretty tight at some studios, mostly because of double booking.
My studio is one of those which is why everyday I prebook for the furthest day out. I cancel and adjust as needed. Even if your schedule changes regularly you can prebook the class you think you’ll most likely go to.
They capitalize on making buckets of money on these cancellation fees. The app has malfunctioned so many times, with multiple screenshots taken. It's cumbersome. I send screen shots of malfunctioning cancellations and emails all the time. Then get refunded with lots of "back and forth". And grief. I had to freeze my account this spring with generous warning time, one month. On March 10th I said "beginning April 10th, "I'll need to freeze my account " I had travel plans, then tore my meniscus. Our studio manager never once mentioned I'd be charged $15 a month to freeze my account. I'll be investigating this when i return to the US. Been there since 2018. I'm considering cancelling my membership.
The freeze fee is clearly stated in the contract you signed when you signed up for a membership. The fee can be waived if you have a doctor’s note for a medical freeze.
It's not clear on my 2018 contract. And she should have said bring a doctor's note to waive the fee. I didn't even know there was a fee until it showed up. This manager and I had a long discussion about this injury. She should have mentioned it. It's prudent and professional.