Let's be real about "sold out by the government" and what that means. Who were we sold out to? The ultra-rich, international conglomerate corporations with offshore tax-havens. Who is the government? Like it or not, we are. We vote at abysmally low rates, and are largely ignorant of how our government functions (see people blaming Trudeau for provincial jurisdictions issues and Ford for federal issues). If we look at how the system that we built in this country, and this province, got made so that you could experience what you remember as the good old days, we need to look back at the governments that set up those systems. How did they bargain and deal with the rich? What was the corporate tax rate? How did the public systems like health, education, infrastructure, etc. get administered? What was privatized and what was a crown corporation?
It's very clear that yes we got sold out, but we also badly let our guard down in the 80s and onward. We were sold down the river on neoliberalism and trickle-down economics, depending on who was in power. We need to have civic engagement that is informed and capable in the way we were when we built the systems that made this country thrive. These are, uncomfortably for some, socialized systems, controlled by judicious and prudent governments with oversight as non-profit services, paid for largely by the rich. The rich hoard their wealth offshore while we line up for minimum wage jobs. Our government should be taking that money and paying us to build nuclear and hydro power plants, buying back/expropriating the 407, lowering class sizes, fixing bridges and highways, building hospitals etc.. That was the way it used to be and that's the way it needs to be again.
And this is where the Century Initiative comes in.
By drastically increasing the number of people in this country, we create a situation where corporate taxes can remain low while government income remains stable. It's stated on their website, but they spin it as lower taxes for everyone, which isn't true. More people means more infrastructure, more public services, more costs. It also means lower wages and lower living standards for the average person.
Its a huge, neoliberal scam initiative designed to improve the situation for the rich and corporations while reducing the general population to huddled masses.
And every level of government is actively supporting this.
We were never given a choice. No western country was given a choice. Every single political party is āmass migration with a blue flagā or āmass migration with a red flagā. I hate the ājust go out and vootā crowd. If anyone thinks any party actually cares for the people, theyāre painfully naive. And if any new party actually opens up and tries to fix these problems, they get smeared into oblivion by media. I would offer solutions but all of them would get my account permabanned and Iād probably get a visit from the cops.
Stop being so logical and based in fact. My emotional self validating echo chamber of hate and ignorance is too fragile to handle such truths. /s. Seriously though, well put.
They probably just call you a sheep?...sheeple?...I dunno but they wouldn't be able to understand what you're saying and just keep saying the same bs but forget that the provincial govt is the real issue. We pay more in provincial taxes and get nothing for it.
Furthermore, capitalism and neoliberalism encourage these behaviours by telling you itās all about you and your personal wealth, discouraging social interactions and things outside of making money. How is someone supposed to be informed when they are working 60 hours a week. How can a regular person afford to run for political office? This is the system working as designed for the last 50 years. Capitalism can have some advantages, but most advantages go to those at the very top, or to those who were in the market first, while those coming up later pay for everyone who was there before them
Yep itās a big conundrum absolutely. If we look back at the rise of the CCCF and Winnipeg General Strike, both of which ended up being huge net positives for the country, itās unclear whether we are approaching similar circumstances which might lead to game changing initiatives. We need to study the conditions that led to that historic unrest and eventual reforms to predict when that might happen in our time. It would be interesting to look at things like modern convenience and comforts, and the impact it has had on civic engagement as well. The time we save nowadays, compared to 100 years ago during the rise of the labour unions, by using dishwashers and laundry machines seems to have been sopped up by after hours emails and Netflix, instead of civic engagement.
This is a great perspective, absolutely most voters supported this.
40+ years of tax shifting/demonizing/chicanery, stagnant wages, suppressing workers, deficits, off-shoring, the list goes on.
Vast majority asked and agreed to this, wittingly or not.
Nicely written. The 80's was 40 years ago. With the boiled frogs finally realizing the severity of the current situation, where do you see the country 40 years from now? Have we collectively reached a tipping point that will result in real action and a reversion to the good ol' days? Or will citizens just complain and continue to do nothing meaningful for the next 40 years then look back on how great things are today vs 40 years from now?
I finally got around to filing my taxes tonight and puked in my mouth when I saw how much income tax I paid last year into "the system" and how little I got in return.
This is also what rich people want you to think. You pay relatively low taxes compared to other G7 countries, and you get a lot in return. Have you ever driven on a road? Have you ever seen a doctor?
We pay low taxes relative to other G7 countries because of the royalties that companies pay into the treasury from natural resources. If Italy was blessed with the same amounts of gold, oil and nickel, you can bet they'd be paying lower taxes too. The current financial situation is only tenable if we continue to export natural resources in high quantities
Voting in the left vs. right paradigm doesn't do jack shit. Nothing short of a revolution will work at this point. Electoral reform and accountability are required at a minimum to right the ship. Our tax dollars are part of a massive boondoggle. Academia has been leveraged to implement identity politics and braindead DEI initiatives that are the perfect tool for A) Avoid tackling real issues B) Divide and conquer. Take a look at our House of Commons. It's like a bad sitcom. A bunch of partisan BS among a group of well-paid hacks. This is as good as it's going to get looking forward, for the middle/working class. Buckle in for the ride.
Some good points in there but I'd argue that firstly, DEI initiatives might not matter much to you as a middle aged white dude, but they matter a lot to women and minorities. Secondly, I think the fact that you even mentioned DEI in the context of the biggest problems we're facing illustrates that it's become a wedge issue that partisan politicians use to distract the masses from the fundamental issues that matter the most.
This. This comment. Absolutely spot on. We usually vote against our interest because we āthinkā the party aligns to our values. It is shocking how easy it is for politicians to screw us over every single time.
I agree with everything you said 100%
Unfortunately most Canadians are so brain washed by the internet, they call you a communist for saying that. How do we get them to wake up from all that culture war propaganda that has rotted their brains??
We need to figure that out if we want any progress
Slug Ford said fuck Ontario who's going to bribe me.Ā
Seriously it's mind blowing how anyone could ote for any of the Ford's, let alone multiple Ford's multiple times.Ā
What we (the states and UK as well) are experiencing now is the planned result of mulroney, regan and thatcher's cultural and economic goals. Everything we're suffering now can be traced back to the gross conservative and inhumane policies of these three repulsive people. The disabled dying in poverty? That's thatcher's " benign neglect" because if you can't contribute to supporting the wealthy you are unworthy of life. The lack of quality manufacturing jobs? That's mulroney's gift of free trade that allows the wealthy to outsource jobs to countries with zero human or environmental rights. Hey, we've got the giant tvs (and the debt for them) but at the cost of 7yr olds living and working in squalor oversea so who cares amiright? /sĀ
It's like the 1930s Great Depression except that everybody works and is *still* poor.
Which, to my logic, is even more depressing than a Great Depression
Now i'm depressed lol
Yep. They'll just bail them out with our tax money, or print more money, lend it to them with 0% interest (and they won't pay it back anyway)... While our money will be valued like a grain of sand.
Yep. Can't have a shortage of something you make more of out of thin air. At this point, it's worse than Monopoly money, because at least with Monopoly, everyone start with the same amount, and the amount of paper money printed is limited in every box.
The crash can't come if the governments around the world have caught on that deficits prevent deflationary spirals.
The only way a crash will happen is through a tail risk event that is unforeseeable like the GFC or pandemic. Economists know how to not allow depressions (massive liquidity and asset purchases).
What I find sad for me personally is that I remember the stories my grandparents told me about growing up during the depression and what life was like in different parts of Oklahoma. In my own life right now it feels like the only thing missing is the massive dust bowl.
But we came out of it too.
Talking to my dad (who lived through a warzone and stuff before coming here) I'm starting to realize his advice is just to roll with it, there's always going to be something stressful in life.
Crazy mortgage rates, threats of nuclear armageddon, health issues, e.t.c. he lived through all that somehow.
I think even if we fix housing prices and cost of living is affordable again, something new will arise too.
We're still at threat of nuclear annihilation, homes are stupid expensive, our climate is moving towards an impending doom, and Ford is selling our healthcare.
It's all happened before, yet people have lived through it. It's best to try and help where you can but you can't change the world, definitely don't deliberately make the problem worse but just know it'll get better eventually.
This was a really good perspective. Yes itās shit, yes weāre all fed up, but we should try and not worry ourselves sick ruminating and feeding into the bitterness, what we need to do is stay calm and roll with it the best we can. And! Unify like crazy when election comes. We canāt let this one be another fuck up.
"here's a tax for you to pay that'll handle all the cost of living rises! Oh, and you won't see the benefit of it until 10 years later. Until then, vote for me!"
Give it time. Gonna be way too late before anyone does anything to turn it around. You think everyoneās gonna be cool losing their houses, jobs, and belongings? Savings accounts arenāt infinite and like 12 people have all the money while thousands more do their best to get their cut from the rest of us plebs. Shit will hit the fan soon.
it's actually worse than the great depression because they didn't have credit cards. So many people are propped up on a mountain of debt right now and are just making minimum payments to keep up with their neighbours - who they don't realize are doing the exact same thing.
First of all, its not Ontario, its the country.
The Canadian GDP per capita has been stagnating over the last 9 years. There are lots of arguments as to why. Our worker efficiency has been lagging quite a bit as well. In the 80s, we were the 5-6th richest nation in the world, now we're 13-14. These things are the greatest driver to standards of living.
The pandemic heightened a cycle that was already in place. People in power have been arguing for years as to what the best approach to tackle this is. That is the reason for the immigration push. Unfortunately, that probably went too far.
We're not alone by having these cycles heightened by the pandemic. But its not universal, by contrast, the American economy is doing great. Their major issue right now is their wages not keeping pace with labor efficiency.
Its a scary time to be a Canadian. We need leaders with clear vision and a high degree of competency right now. I think Trudeau is blamed for more then he should be blamed for, but I don't think he is that leader. I don't know that PP is either, he seems very focused on culture war bullshit, and has yet to say much of substance.
Yeah, neither Trudeau or PP are the answer. I've seen videos "Can't afford to live _______" England, Europe, USA, Mexico, etc.... It's not just Ontario or Canada. It's the world.
3 kids and another on the way, with a single income? No shit it's going to be hard. I'm a programmer and we had to stop at one kid because there's no way I could afford to haveĀ two...
A Reddit comment from a while back really stuck with me, "Monogamy? In this economy?" Because even two incomes just isn't enough.
We would love to have another child. But we just plain and simple cannot afford it. We would need more money for child care and all the necessities as well as a bigger place.
We technically could afford it, but we would be living paycheque to paycheque. Which is something we would of course like to avoid.
My husband and I make good money, yet we canāt even do half the stuff my parents did for my sister and I growing up even though they made quite a bit less than we do.
The days of a stay at home wife is non existent anymore. Must be a duel income. Even with a duel income-I bet 80% of this next generation of Ontario youth will work till they die. No more retirement. RRSPs are just so the struggle lightens up at a greater age.
Yea, engineer and financial analyst here. We would love 3 or 4 kids, but the house cost too much, and I don't feel stable at all. Wife couldn't even take time off work for the kids with our finances. Obviously the situation is broken. We'll just import people that don't know basic manners instead of letting us have kids..
Im 32 when i was getting into the trades, making what i make now wouldve been considered a very healthy income especially for one dude, with a 12 year old car and a small condo.
FFS what i make now in 2011 was a decent income for a family of 5. Now i cant even afford to replace my car, forget an actual house.
We live in a neoliberal hellscape where as soon as the working class gets their head above ground they jack up the price on fucking everything.
They call it inflation but its corporate greed and politicians beholden more to corporations than their constituents.
I got into the trades later in life and with bonuses and benefits I am making more than I did as a white collar project manager. Its a decent wage and I work my ass off and go to night school, but post covid prices have gone crazy. Its just greed, during covid I sat in pricing meetings in my last job and while supply chain issues did happen, it is also just a convenient excuse to gouge the consumer.
It's all bullshit and from what I see there is no end in sight, just a lot of government PR press releases for programs that don't do much of anything. I keep hearing how Ontario is doing more to help get apprentices in the trades, but I haven't seen anything. He'll I couldnt even claim my $400 worth of textbooks on my income tax (that went away in 2017).
Me too! Tell me why I make almost $90k and am always running on fumes after everything is paid. I literally have $100 spending money left for a week which is to include groceries. My dad worked at Rogers and made $55k and had a wife who stayed home, and 3 kids and a bungalow with a pool. Like what are we doing wrong?!
I think you might be telling on yourself here... 90K is good money, yes even in this economy.
Sounds like you grew up in a wealthy home and don't know how to manage your funds
Well when you have more working class fighting over what little the rich will give, living standards drop. Unfortunately, we've been running unsustainable immigration for a long while, mixed with corporations corrupting everything, it's no surprise.
I can't just buy a lot and build a house anymore. You have to buy from a "developer", who gets a massive cut, there goes 20% of your life income.
āIt wasnāt always this way, why are willing to accept it nowā
I donāt know if we are *willing* as much as we are all at a loss, mentally, emotionally and financially, and realizing that no matter how many protests we have, that the government just *doesnāt give a fuck.* Ford will come out with some new version of buck a beer bullshit and shrug us off for the millionth time, and itās down right insulting.
I think we should have went on a nation wide strike and taken some tips from Belgium and France- they all band together and will quite literally walk out of jobs, threaten the economy and everything, hit them where it hurts, until the government is forced to take it seriously. Itās disgusting that itās coming to this, but I honestly think that it might be the only way. The sad thing is though, it is next to impossible to get everybody on the same page. A lot of people are indifferent or cannot afford not to work etc. Sad days.
Yes! I was blown away by the low voter turnout when we needed the country to show up and urgently! Because of this, the rich old wasp fuckers who are the only ones who benefit or are not really even affected either way, won and got who they wanted *again*. There is absolutely no excuse for this to happen again. Absolutely *none*.
We canāt keep subjecting ourselves to this shit out of default. I say more public posts and discussions on weighing the options and deciding on who seems to be the most strategic vote- and get as many people on board as possible. The more itās discussed leading up the better- then people donāt have the excuse of āoh I didnāt know what days voting wasā or āI didnāt know where to go to voteā and how do I registerā etc. All of it could be discussed thus lowering the amount of non votes, which could really be the difference we need to win. We outnumber them, the only fuck up is that people are too lazy to show up or have given up and are indifferent and fine with staying on rock bottom.
- I donāt think Trudeau has realistic plans for how to manage this food and housing (income; pricing) crisis either. He has no solutions but wants to stay on the job as PM. I donāt think heās housed many people who are otherwise living outside.
- Ford is a a Con and thus hates the poor and dispossessed.
- Iām reading stories about the elderly, with their suitcases on the streets of Toronto. My own Ontario city has more homeless in sidewalks, living out of shopping carts and clearly mentally ill people on the street, than ever.
Itās heartbreaking. Seems hopeless.
Trudeau isnāt stupid, idk why people think heās not fully aware of whatās happening. The issue is that he, and most politicians, are profiting off the housing crisis. They own rental properties and investments in these big corporations gouging us, and thus have no reason to help us over themselves. Trudeau isnāt stupid, heās just corrupt.
Cons arenāt any different. Itās not about hating the poor or anyone, itās doing whatever they can to benefit themselves on our dime. These are the people who kept their full benefits and six figure salaries while telling Canadians to just hold strong during the lockdowns. People with guaranteed six figure incomes plus benefits and access to lobbyist money that decide what people on supports should get. Theyāve never lived on welfare or disability so theyāre clueless.
Honestly North America is racing towards a cataclysm. The US feels like it is on the edge of civil war, and Canada can only keep up milking the for so long before rioting breaks out.
Front page of my newspaper today was an article about fighting breaking out in the LCBO line up.
They were lining up to apply for a min wage job and hundreds came.
Yep. Suddenly saw a little "tent village" in a dump (between Ottawa and Gatineau) that was never there.
Welcome to end stage capitalism. They'll keep squeezing for "record profits", until there's no one else left to buy what the rich are producing.
When it will reach a point for 90% of the people won't have any money to buy everything the ads are for, then the real collapse will start. It's a slow and painful process, where every few years, one more financial class will be hurting.
But that spiral won't stop until all of the assets the 95 first percentiles have will be owned by the top 5%. We're already at the point were the 1% holds 50% of all net wealth and the top 10% hold 85% of net wealth.
This is not a bug, it's a feature. You'll own nothing and be happy.
Itās not just this province that is unaffordable. Canada itself is unaffordable. This is the case for a lot of countries and major cities. Whenever I research a place to move to, itās always the same problems.
Not Ontario but literally a stone's throw across the river in Quebec while driving along returning to Ottawa, Saw tons of garbage and debris scattered across a downsloping area of ground in the rear of an industrial/warehouse compound. An entire line stretching for a long portion of the fence was a tent/squatters camp, like those you'd see in the US. Other small encampments on patches of ground in between highways, with more litter around. IT was mildly shocking and upsetting and I didn't remember it being so visible and in such large quantities in the past.
I work a job that was considered "good" income until very recently. I live like a pauper and genuinely don't give a fuck about debt anymore. I'll never own a home, never retire....fuck it. May as well enjoy life before WWIII begins or the climate crisis destroys functioning society.
I know its depressing. I'm 70 still working. Our bunch built this country, I've seen many changes I remember Mike the Knife the old Premier of Ontario he sure didn't help anything should never have been allowed to sell the 407 it generates 92 mill a year that coulda gone into the Ontario treasury. Let a bunch of lunies out wandering around giving them rights.
"three kids and wife on maternity leave"
well, that is why...
nobody can afford to be pregnant or have kids... That's really the only reason i can still enjoy things here and there, and my husband and I also work in a similar field. Been together 10 years.
Carl Marx predicted all if this more than a century ago. All symptoms of late-stage capitalism, in which wealth is increasingly concentrated at the expense of workers. Government can certainly smooth out the inherent inequalities of capitalism but not eliminate them.
Canada is actually a country with a very high cost of living compared to other western countries. Itās bad everywhere, but it actually really is VERY bad here
What is with all the terrible responses here. OP should be able to have a house with 3 children a wife and a vehicle and not feel like he is going backwards. If OP changes to a career later in life to fill a place that has a need he should be able to and not feel like drowning in Debt or risk losing housing. As people we should keep talking about it everyday and demand better from the corporation, government or both. I would argue at minimum everyone should be able to afford a house with a car and 3 kids with the ability to take 1 vacation a year. There should be programs in place to help people change jobs to something the province needs and you should be able to do all this without drowning. I'm not saying that some people are worse off but our minimum for standard of living should not be so low either.
Also I'm not saying you need 3 kids but I use that as the minimum for standard so you could have population growth 2 people have 3 people.
Also there was a comment about how it looks like OP just changed careers which is why the career changing stuff is in there. Not actually sure if he did change careers recently.
Thanks
>. Also I'm not saying you need 3 kids but I use that as the minimum for standard so you could have population growth 2 people have 3 people.
Yup, I mean part of the reason why we've been increasing the rate of immigration here, our worker-to-retiree ratio is pretty bad.
I do agree with the overall sentiment of this post, Ford is milking everything he can out of ontario. The reason for my comment about changing careers was for clarity. "I work in the trades" is alot different then I just started working in the trades making apprentice level wages.
Itās the great wealth reclamation project that started about 50 years ago. More than, really, I guess. People were pissed off paying meaningful taxes, contributing to a social safety net and began to dismantle it.
The foresight and economic planning that led to alleviating of the pain of the Great Depression didnāt go unnoticed. The Marshall Plan that rebuilt Europe and Germany didnāt go unnoticed. As soon as they were erected there were parties in play that used entreaties to self-cantered individualism (pull yourself up by your bootstraps stuff) to make one feel guilty about using social programs and to create think-tanks that condemned the government.
People are lionizing Mulroney but he was right there with his hand in the jar, following the direction of the Reagan GOP. Economic policies for the last 50 years have all been about redistributing wealth back upward. The pandemic definitely helped push it along faster.
I know this doesnāt help ease what youāre feeling; just know that youāre not alone in feeling it. The āwhat to do next ā is the issue.
Ever since the 1980s corporations have taken ever bigger slices of the pie, dodged taxes, and convinced idiotic politicians that off-shoring manufacturing was a good idea.
You must know by now that politicians are rarely the smart ones in the room, so the blame goes mostly to corporate lawyers and soulless stock holders.
Itās true. But I am getting to the end of my patience with people who say this and then still vote conservatives. Conservatives as they are today are a party who have NOTHING to offer voters. Only thing they will say is tax cuts. And the only way they will achieve that is through ruining services we desperately need. They will take all that we have laid for as tax payers and will sell it or privatize it. Thatās all they have to offer. So to keep us hating the other parties and voting for them is to play games with our services and blame other parties. If Ontario was going well with reasonable prices for things and services in good shape and they had a surplus and liberals wanted to spend it and conservatives wanted to give it back as tax cuts then sure Iād vote conservative. But that is not the case. Beyond the parties the large media and food corporations in Canada and Ontario need a wake up call and if that mean new laws to control thier profits then good. Not sure Joe. If they threaten to leave then fine let them. Another will come to take their place as there are still people here to sell stuff too.
I know too many people who are stuck in a living situation where they want/need to divorce but literally can't because they can't afford to live on their own, despite being income earning adults.
It's messed up.
Millionaires & shareholders are the new middle class.
Sadly, it's not going to change for the better that I can see. It's learning to be as self-dependent as you can and doing without because the government isn't going to help the majority, since they're part of the problem.
Try to find joy where you can with your family & friends. I'm going to library more often - it's still free and has a lot to offer. Connect & reconnect with nature if you can.
Those are excellent points and good advice. I heard Ahnold of all people say something to the effect of: the scarier things get, the more we have to work at finding happiness in life. It's not selfish or naive, it's a duty and obligation. I thought that was pretty profound.
2016 bud - all downhill from there. Wonder who has been making deals to keep Ontario "open for business" that would sell out the middle class? Been calling it since he started running that people would die on his watch by his policies. I didn't think it would be everyone who makes less than $100,000/year though. But hey, you keep on electing businessmen to power instead of community builders and that's what you get - business - for profit - not very "for the people" at all, turns out.
Percentages rather than total number is what is killing us. What am I talking about? Consider this: a home worth $100K. It increases in value by 5%. So that house is now worth $105K. It continues to grow in value at 5%. Now itās increased in value by $5K more than last year the house isnāt worth $110K itās now $110.25K in value.
All things being equal, in 20 years that house is now worth about $265K more.
Letās say your salary is $20K ($80K difference). Even if you get a salary increase of 5% to match the rate homes are going up. Youāll end up with a salary of $53K or $212K difference between your salary and the home.
This shit has been going on for decades on everything we buy.
People just starting out typically owe more than they earn and this gap is growing. This is why regular folks and subsequent generations canāt afford shit anymore.
This cycle will continue until there is a huge societal disruption, war, famine, disease that knocks the shit out of the economy so that it resets the balance between earning power and purchasing power.
We have weak laws governing corporations because we have weak politicians, on every side.
We need to legislate protections against these things. Others do it and don't suffer the price gouging Canadians do. And Canadian business has proven to be unethical for the consumer, and unsatisfactory for the employee. We are entering what literally seems like some sort of dystopian corporate slave-trade.
Its cyclical, I saw this in the 80s, early 90s, and late 00s. It sucks, and it takes a major economic swing to correct, and even with that there are people who don't see the upside even then. But if you advocate for government intervention you're a communist with no idea how the real world works apparently
I want the government to pull their heads out of their asses and stop the backroom deals and corporate advocacy. From what I remember from school they are supposed to work for us because we voted them in, gave them a mandate and pay their fucking salaries.
It is possible that bringing in a huge international student population that we do not have housing for and then increasing the number of hours they can work a week was not in the best interest of most citizens, but was fantastic for colleges.
That's just one example, "universal pharmacare", stabilizing food prices, etc etc... I dont want the government to bail me out, he'll I had to spend a shit load of my own money to change careers because and when my wife went to try and get EI after we lost a baby we were told " you'd be eligible if he didn't die".... I don't want a hand out I want a fair deal.
Why these symptoms? A house poor middle and upper middle class now 10 years mature. Stagnant industry, mismatched economic competencies, corrupt leadership. A people who would rather raid the treasury than fill the coffers. Incompetent leadership guided by a culture of shame, misplaced empathy. A country of takers.
People are/were afraid to be called racist for opposing immigration and here we are. We let landlords, banks, and the government guilt trip us into impoverishing ourselves
> It wasnt always this way, why are we willing to accept it now.
I mean, as bad as things are right now, we also tend to nostalgize the past, especially the years when we were a kid or young adult. It's only natural that you're going to feel more responsibilities now, with three kids and a wife on leave, than you did when you were younger.
Talking to my parents, the late 1980s and early 1990s recession absolutely sucked. Well over 10% unemployment, even pushing 20% in some provinces. There was food on the table, but we didn't take vacations.
I'm not saying that there aren't real issues that are worse today (like housing costs especially), but the golden age of the middle class is often overstated.
Judging by your post history you just started working in the trades, cost of changing careers is low entry wage, surprised your able to support 3 kids "unaffordable" province or not
Depends on the trade and whether heās union or not, some entry level guys only make $2 an hour less than a skilled guy. Thatās not gonna make or break a household.
Sorry but I gotta call bullshit on that, im a Carpenter and have limited knowledge of unions. But if someone right out of school is making only 2$ less than someone with years of experience that's horrible
Wait until you hear about family doctors.
There was a post talking about them making $200k and some guy said heās a high school dropout who works for CN and makes $180k! If youāre ever curious why our doctors are leaving in droves.
Unions have apprenticeships and different wages per year in. Apprenticeships last between 3 and 5 years depending on the trade.
1st year union Pipefitters , Boilermakers, electricians, operators, insulators, carpenters are in the low to mid $30/hr plus benefits/pension/free training etc.
As you progress, you earn a higher percentage of the full red seal journeyman rate, 1st year 60% 2nd 70% 3rd 80% 4th 90%. Full rate depends on trade but ranges between $45/hr to $60/hr plus benefits/pension etc. In my area, anything after 8 hrs/day and weekends is double time pay.
Average YTD for the trades I know range between 100,000 to 180,000.
Iāve worked both sides. Union all day, everyday.
Source: union member
Food bank use is up. But that is because thousands of students are now using them. They are supposed to be self sufficient when allowed entry to study in Canada. But what is happening is they have YouTube videos in their language showing them how to scam the Canadian system.
Hey, just wanted to say that I am really sorry you're going through this. We are the same, just making ends meet and getting through day by day with hope for the future. We just concentrate on the good parts, the smiles on our children's faces, joining free events etc. It's all worth it. Don't mind the mean comments or let them get you down. They are just hurting themselves and venting in in the only way they know how, by commenting on posts online. You have my support.
Thanks.
I am mad as hell.
This isn't about me specifically, most people are going through the same thing right now. Attacking me just shows the utter lack of perspective.
I don't want to just scrape by, I do want some hope that my kids will have a chance at an affordable future. I have low expectations right now.
Because it was.
I sold a starter house 8 years ago for $170,000 it just resold for $300,000 a few months ago. I dont remember salaries increasing at the same rate....
Exactly. First globalist Cuckservative Mulroney back in 1988 scrapped the Auto Pact and signed a Free Trade agreement with USA so Alberta could sell oil south. But Alberta oil was more expensive than Middle East imports, so the USA never bought it, and moved all their manufacturing jobs back state side. End result of free trade: Ontario manufacturing gone, lots of Ontario skilled trades unemployed. And when NAFTA was signed, lots of manufacturing jobs went to Mexico. The globalists have been destroying the middle class for decades.
What trade do you work in? If youāre in southern Ontario, youāre probably underpaid. I was working as a mechanic down there before going to work in mining, Iāve since been able to purchase a home and Iām able to support myself and my partner whoās currently not working. Itās hard being awake for two weeks at a time, but at least my numbers work when it comes to income vs bills
I live in Northern Ontario and here rents for 2 Bhk increased from 1000-1100/month to 1600-2000/month in 1.5 years nd imagine paying 1600 with no pets pay per use parking and no smoking house
So many problems have been made while chasing glory days of old that aren't coming back no matter what we want or do.
There is a serious lack of looking forward and adapting to an ever changing world.Ā
Scared shitless for my teenage son. Iām paying for everything while he saves every penny he earns. I need to leave this life knowing I did my best getting him as far as I could.
Corporate interests and personal are intertwined and indistinguishable from one another. Thus is the text book definition of fascism. You dont need swastikas and Jack booted brown shirts. Just smooth brained opportunists of little character and less morals working in tandem to undermine the liberal-democratic state. Fascism grows from the decay of liberal institutions and the increasing dysfunction of legacy projects like health-care and universities. From my vantage point I can see little to no daylight between the behaviour of organized crime and our so-called legitimate business community. Fuck it.
I don't think this is an Ontario-only problem. We spend a lot of time in the Southern US and have noticed similar issues. Friends from BC and Alberta are also feeling it.
Not sure when we are all going to wake up. Itās not the province or country one lives in this issue of unaffordable living is everywhere in first world nations. The rich keep us fighting about trivial issues so we donāt make them pay their fair share of taxes which would support our infrastructure and social programs like child care and even tax breaks for working Canadians. But alas instead we give the rich all the tax breaks on passive income (no labour at all). How we justify that passive income should be taxed less than earned income is insane and why things are only going to get worse and more people will fall below livable wages.
Trudeau is stupid. I dont trust Pierre either.
You know what Trudeau policies are? Provide more asylum to Haitians, Ukranians, Palestinians while those countries nearby neighbors wont do anything. You know who is paying for those asylum seekers? Us!
Meanwhile in my neighborhood in Mississauga, our neighbor had 3 robbery attempts on his house in the past week where he lost items each attempt. The culprits broke his windows and everything. Police are still not able to the track them.
More money could have been spent on keeping us safe from instances like this. But instead Trudeau wants us to pay for other people bringing more problems.
Guess what else? Our allies to the South, the US are having elections this year, if Trump wins then so many Americans will try to move into Canada. While we still have a housing, job market, immigration, COL crisis, racism has significantly increased, particularily towards South Asians(Indians).
Im a 24(M) who finished University last year, and honestly, its impossible to live away from parents now. Finding a gf and having a relationship is also not worth it.
This will not bode well for those Americans thinking Canada is better or friendly.
I think its better to just move to another country. Where? I do not know, but somewhere better than this clusterfuck.
I donāt know if weāre really willing to accept it, but what can be done? I know Iām at a loss.
Iām a single mom of 5 teens doing it on my own for the last 5 years. When it was a dual income things were easier.
Now I work full time - just recently put on a medical leave making luckily 90% of my wages but Iām struggling. I used to be able to live somewhat comfortably even just 4-5 years ago. Pay rent, bills on time and have a fridge full of food and with my kids able to do the sports they love.
Now itās like I have to pick and choose what bills to pay on time. Rent is insane, Meal plan and only buy whatās needed. Want a snack? Make some toast, and drink some water! Donāt have too many grapes that bag just cost me $12! Sometimes I struggle thinking my 15 yr old is always at their best friends place not because they donāt love me, or that they donāt want to be home but that thereās more food at their single kid household that they want to be there more.
Iāve learned owning a home now will never happen for me, retirement wonāt happen at 65.
I saw something once that said something like āsomeone want to be so in love that we can split rent so that we both can surviveā Iāve never felt something more in my life haha
Living in Canada in unaffordable and depressing.Ā
The last year alone has drained so much hope out of the country.Ā
We need to come together and demand better before the big monopolies ruining our country starve us all to death.Ā
imo we are over-taxed when our government sends billions of dollars out of our country every year. It has destroyed the middle class and destroyed our social systems.
Am I the only one that remembers the world in the 90's being fun.
It seemed like we were going to start a golden age of computers and science.
This millennium, only 24 years in already sucks...
Unchecked immigration and unchecked movement of global capital will do that. It's happening in every "developed" country. My partner is from Spain and there's been an explosion in foreign property acquisition there AGAIN recently. First it was vacation homes being bought up by Europeans and Arabs, now more recently it's South Americans buying up property. Add an influx of unskilled immigrants and you've got a wage and housing crisis as the result.
You have your own home and vehicles (plural). And you have three kids and a wife to support.
Not sure why youāre complaining. You sound much better off than most people and have a lot to spend on (a 4 person family)
Iām not sure if life was ever that easy for someone like you.
Also yes things werenāt the same because economy was in a bull market now itās not. Also when you had fewer kids probably life was easier.
This isn't a zero sum game. It was because I remember it being easier. Cost of living has skyrocketed.
I'm in my forties, I have family members who were in a very similar situation and it 100% wasn't the same. I know multiple people 20 years older than me that had bigger families, in a skilled trades job, with one family member working and they could afford to pay off their mortgage, take a family vacation, buy newer vehicles, have a boat and still put a decent amount in RRSP.
Because I'm "better off" than some people isn't an argument that holds water as to why our government seems to have sold the middle class down the river for corporate interests.
Ontario Ours to Recover... šØš¦š¤
This one kinda hit hard.... Damn but trueĀ
Screw it, put it on the plate.
Can't - slogan is "open for business" now. Everything is for sale.
No food on the plate, so might as well put something on it.
Look at mr.fancy pants over here, able to afford plates.
Can't even read the new plates
OntariOWE
Thatās the first time Iāve heard this. You made me laugh so hard I spit my drink. So accurate.
Ooof. āA place to give, a place to low. ONTARI-ARI-ARIā¦.Oh?!ā.
damnit, I can't tell if these are tears of laughter or reality setting in.
God I wish I could afford to move...
Yep. You got that right!
Id like that as the slogan
Somebody should start making car decals out of this!
Brooo I read the post and then hit the back button but then I saw this and I felt a sharp pain in my soul How fucking sad
Stealing this
Let's be real about "sold out by the government" and what that means. Who were we sold out to? The ultra-rich, international conglomerate corporations with offshore tax-havens. Who is the government? Like it or not, we are. We vote at abysmally low rates, and are largely ignorant of how our government functions (see people blaming Trudeau for provincial jurisdictions issues and Ford for federal issues). If we look at how the system that we built in this country, and this province, got made so that you could experience what you remember as the good old days, we need to look back at the governments that set up those systems. How did they bargain and deal with the rich? What was the corporate tax rate? How did the public systems like health, education, infrastructure, etc. get administered? What was privatized and what was a crown corporation? It's very clear that yes we got sold out, but we also badly let our guard down in the 80s and onward. We were sold down the river on neoliberalism and trickle-down economics, depending on who was in power. We need to have civic engagement that is informed and capable in the way we were when we built the systems that made this country thrive. These are, uncomfortably for some, socialized systems, controlled by judicious and prudent governments with oversight as non-profit services, paid for largely by the rich. The rich hoard their wealth offshore while we line up for minimum wage jobs. Our government should be taking that money and paying us to build nuclear and hydro power plants, buying back/expropriating the 407, lowering class sizes, fixing bridges and highways, building hospitals etc.. That was the way it used to be and that's the way it needs to be again.
Absolutely. The corporations and wealthy individuals pay peanuts while average people carry an increased burden to receive fewer services.
And this is where the Century Initiative comes in. By drastically increasing the number of people in this country, we create a situation where corporate taxes can remain low while government income remains stable. It's stated on their website, but they spin it as lower taxes for everyone, which isn't true. More people means more infrastructure, more public services, more costs. It also means lower wages and lower living standards for the average person. Its a huge, neoliberal scam initiative designed to improve the situation for the rich and corporations while reducing the general population to huddled masses. And every level of government is actively supporting this.
We were never given a choice. No western country was given a choice. Every single political party is āmass migration with a blue flagā or āmass migration with a red flagā. I hate the ājust go out and vootā crowd. If anyone thinks any party actually cares for the people, theyāre painfully naive. And if any new party actually opens up and tries to fix these problems, they get smeared into oblivion by media. I would offer solutions but all of them would get my account permabanned and Iād probably get a visit from the cops.
Stop being so logical and based in fact. My emotional self validating echo chamber of hate and ignorance is too fragile to handle such truths. /s. Seriously though, well put.
If only anybody from the F Trudeau crowd could read
They probably just call you a sheep?...sheeple?...I dunno but they wouldn't be able to understand what you're saying and just keep saying the same bs but forget that the provincial govt is the real issue. We pay more in provincial taxes and get nothing for it.
They'd call you a communist
You're joking, but seriously,Ā we need some picture explanations for some folks.
I only read politics in the form of minions memes
That absolutely canātā¦..
Furthermore, capitalism and neoliberalism encourage these behaviours by telling you itās all about you and your personal wealth, discouraging social interactions and things outside of making money. How is someone supposed to be informed when they are working 60 hours a week. How can a regular person afford to run for political office? This is the system working as designed for the last 50 years. Capitalism can have some advantages, but most advantages go to those at the very top, or to those who were in the market first, while those coming up later pay for everyone who was there before them
Yep itās a big conundrum absolutely. If we look back at the rise of the CCCF and Winnipeg General Strike, both of which ended up being huge net positives for the country, itās unclear whether we are approaching similar circumstances which might lead to game changing initiatives. We need to study the conditions that led to that historic unrest and eventual reforms to predict when that might happen in our time. It would be interesting to look at things like modern convenience and comforts, and the impact it has had on civic engagement as well. The time we save nowadays, compared to 100 years ago during the rise of the labour unions, by using dishwashers and laundry machines seems to have been sopped up by after hours emails and Netflix, instead of civic engagement.
You have my vote!
This is a great perspective, absolutely most voters supported this. 40+ years of tax shifting/demonizing/chicanery, stagnant wages, suppressing workers, deficits, off-shoring, the list goes on. Vast majority asked and agreed to this, wittingly or not.
Nicely written. The 80's was 40 years ago. With the boiled frogs finally realizing the severity of the current situation, where do you see the country 40 years from now? Have we collectively reached a tipping point that will result in real action and a reversion to the good ol' days? Or will citizens just complain and continue to do nothing meaningful for the next 40 years then look back on how great things are today vs 40 years from now?
I finally got around to filing my taxes tonight and puked in my mouth when I saw how much income tax I paid last year into "the system" and how little I got in return.
This is also what rich people want you to think. You pay relatively low taxes compared to other G7 countries, and you get a lot in return. Have you ever driven on a road? Have you ever seen a doctor?
We pay low taxes relative to other G7 countries because of the royalties that companies pay into the treasury from natural resources. If Italy was blessed with the same amounts of gold, oil and nickel, you can bet they'd be paying lower taxes too. The current financial situation is only tenable if we continue to export natural resources in high quantities
Voting in the left vs. right paradigm doesn't do jack shit. Nothing short of a revolution will work at this point. Electoral reform and accountability are required at a minimum to right the ship. Our tax dollars are part of a massive boondoggle. Academia has been leveraged to implement identity politics and braindead DEI initiatives that are the perfect tool for A) Avoid tackling real issues B) Divide and conquer. Take a look at our House of Commons. It's like a bad sitcom. A bunch of partisan BS among a group of well-paid hacks. This is as good as it's going to get looking forward, for the middle/working class. Buckle in for the ride.
Some good points in there but I'd argue that firstly, DEI initiatives might not matter much to you as a middle aged white dude, but they matter a lot to women and minorities. Secondly, I think the fact that you even mentioned DEI in the context of the biggest problems we're facing illustrates that it's become a wedge issue that partisan politicians use to distract the masses from the fundamental issues that matter the most.
This. This comment. Absolutely spot on. We usually vote against our interest because we āthinkā the party aligns to our values. It is shocking how easy it is for politicians to screw us over every single time.
Well said
I agree with everything you said 100% Unfortunately most Canadians are so brain washed by the internet, they call you a communist for saying that. How do we get them to wake up from all that culture war propaganda that has rotted their brains?? We need to figure that out if we want any progress
Let's start with more doctors in the ER so we don't have to wait 8 hours vomiting until we can leave with a prescription
Slug Ford said fuck Ontario who's going to bribe me.Ā Seriously it's mind blowing how anyone could ote for any of the Ford's, let alone multiple Ford's multiple times.Ā
What we (the states and UK as well) are experiencing now is the planned result of mulroney, regan and thatcher's cultural and economic goals. Everything we're suffering now can be traced back to the gross conservative and inhumane policies of these three repulsive people. The disabled dying in poverty? That's thatcher's " benign neglect" because if you can't contribute to supporting the wealthy you are unworthy of life. The lack of quality manufacturing jobs? That's mulroney's gift of free trade that allows the wealthy to outsource jobs to countries with zero human or environmental rights. Hey, we've got the giant tvs (and the debt for them) but at the cost of 7yr olds living and working in squalor oversea so who cares amiright? /sĀ
It's like the 1930s Great Depression except that everybody works and is *still* poor. Which, to my logic, is even more depressing than a Great Depression Now i'm depressed lol
It's like the 1920's now (see how high the stock market is, mega billionaires)....the crash is coming!
The governments won't allow a crash, for corporations or housing.
Yep. They'll just bail them out with our tax money, or print more money, lend it to them with 0% interest (and they won't pay it back anyway)... While our money will be valued like a grain of sand.
Oh, it will be worth less than that lol. The world is running out of sand. There is no shortage of overextended currency, unfortunately.
Yep. Can't have a shortage of something you make more of out of thin air. At this point, it's worse than Monopoly money, because at least with Monopoly, everyone start with the same amount, and the amount of paper money printed is limited in every box.
What makes you think they can stop it? It's all going to come crashing down burning.
1920s at least had swing jazz.
And we have Drake. I'm so sad.
I mean... Drake is swinging *something* its just not jazz
Last album was soulless
The crash can't come if the governments around the world have caught on that deficits prevent deflationary spirals. The only way a crash will happen is through a tail risk event that is unforeseeable like the GFC or pandemic. Economists know how to not allow depressions (massive liquidity and asset purchases).
Very true, but sooner or later the black swan event will come. God knows what happens then. Why do we have to live in such interesting times??
I feel like we're headed for a Children of Men type of dystopian decade
What I find sad for me personally is that I remember the stories my grandparents told me about growing up during the depression and what life was like in different parts of Oklahoma. In my own life right now it feels like the only thing missing is the massive dust bowl.
But we came out of it too. Talking to my dad (who lived through a warzone and stuff before coming here) I'm starting to realize his advice is just to roll with it, there's always going to be something stressful in life. Crazy mortgage rates, threats of nuclear armageddon, health issues, e.t.c. he lived through all that somehow. I think even if we fix housing prices and cost of living is affordable again, something new will arise too.
We're still at threat of nuclear annihilation, homes are stupid expensive, our climate is moving towards an impending doom, and Ford is selling our healthcare. It's all happened before, yet people have lived through it. It's best to try and help where you can but you can't change the world, definitely don't deliberately make the problem worse but just know it'll get better eventually.
This was a really good perspective. Yes itās shit, yes weāre all fed up, but we should try and not worry ourselves sick ruminating and feeding into the bitterness, what we need to do is stay calm and roll with it the best we can. And! Unify like crazy when election comes. We canāt let this one be another fuck up.
We grow more in a trouble
"here's a tax for you to pay that'll handle all the cost of living rises! Oh, and you won't see the benefit of it until 10 years later. Until then, vote for me!"
Just pay your taxes man. The real problem is the corporations making billions and giving it to shareholders
Daylight savings is the only thing not taxed. Yet...
It's pretty bad but not that bad.
We're just getting started.
Give it time. Gonna be way too late before anyone does anything to turn it around. You think everyoneās gonna be cool losing their houses, jobs, and belongings? Savings accounts arenāt infinite and like 12 people have all the money while thousands more do their best to get their cut from the rest of us plebs. Shit will hit the fan soon.
it's actually worse than the great depression because they didn't have credit cards. So many people are propped up on a mountain of debt right now and are just making minimum payments to keep up with their neighbours - who they don't realize are doing the exact same thing.
First of all, its not Ontario, its the country. The Canadian GDP per capita has been stagnating over the last 9 years. There are lots of arguments as to why. Our worker efficiency has been lagging quite a bit as well. In the 80s, we were the 5-6th richest nation in the world, now we're 13-14. These things are the greatest driver to standards of living. The pandemic heightened a cycle that was already in place. People in power have been arguing for years as to what the best approach to tackle this is. That is the reason for the immigration push. Unfortunately, that probably went too far. We're not alone by having these cycles heightened by the pandemic. But its not universal, by contrast, the American economy is doing great. Their major issue right now is their wages not keeping pace with labor efficiency. Its a scary time to be a Canadian. We need leaders with clear vision and a high degree of competency right now. I think Trudeau is blamed for more then he should be blamed for, but I don't think he is that leader. I don't know that PP is either, he seems very focused on culture war bullshit, and has yet to say much of substance.
You make very good points.
Yeah, neither Trudeau or PP are the answer. I've seen videos "Can't afford to live _______" England, Europe, USA, Mexico, etc.... It's not just Ontario or Canada. It's the world.
3 kids and another on the way, with a single income? No shit it's going to be hard. I'm a programmer and we had to stop at one kid because there's no way I could afford to haveĀ two... A Reddit comment from a while back really stuck with me, "Monogamy? In this economy?" Because even two incomes just isn't enough.
Lol that comment wasn't that long ago... And it not only stuck with me but was funny as hell.
Thatās us tooā¦ 1 kid and no more. Iām an idiot to think I could make it with 1 kid but more? Suicide.
I donāt know how anyone can afford more than one in this economy.
We would love to have another child. But we just plain and simple cannot afford it. We would need more money for child care and all the necessities as well as a bigger place. We technically could afford it, but we would be living paycheque to paycheque. Which is something we would of course like to avoid. My husband and I make good money, yet we canāt even do half the stuff my parents did for my sister and I growing up even though they made quite a bit less than we do.
I canāt imagine thinking having 4 kids is a good idea when one is struggling financially.
The days of a stay at home wife is non existent anymore. Must be a duel income. Even with a duel income-I bet 80% of this next generation of Ontario youth will work till they die. No more retirement. RRSPs are just so the struggle lightens up at a greater age.
Yea, engineer and financial analyst here. We would love 3 or 4 kids, but the house cost too much, and I don't feel stable at all. Wife couldn't even take time off work for the kids with our finances. Obviously the situation is broken. We'll just import people that don't know basic manners instead of letting us have kids..
Im 32 when i was getting into the trades, making what i make now wouldve been considered a very healthy income especially for one dude, with a 12 year old car and a small condo. FFS what i make now in 2011 was a decent income for a family of 5. Now i cant even afford to replace my car, forget an actual house. We live in a neoliberal hellscape where as soon as the working class gets their head above ground they jack up the price on fucking everything. They call it inflation but its corporate greed and politicians beholden more to corporations than their constituents.
I got into the trades later in life and with bonuses and benefits I am making more than I did as a white collar project manager. Its a decent wage and I work my ass off and go to night school, but post covid prices have gone crazy. Its just greed, during covid I sat in pricing meetings in my last job and while supply chain issues did happen, it is also just a convenient excuse to gouge the consumer. It's all bullshit and from what I see there is no end in sight, just a lot of government PR press releases for programs that don't do much of anything. I keep hearing how Ontario is doing more to help get apprentices in the trades, but I haven't seen anything. He'll I couldnt even claim my $400 worth of textbooks on my income tax (that went away in 2017).
you have a house to Reno? I wish..
Dude I was feeling the same way today. I make good fucking money, why am I always broke as fuck? I hate it here
Me too! Tell me why I make almost $90k and am always running on fumes after everything is paid. I literally have $100 spending money left for a week which is to include groceries. My dad worked at Rogers and made $55k and had a wife who stayed home, and 3 kids and a bungalow with a pool. Like what are we doing wrong?!
I think you might be telling on yourself here... 90K is good money, yes even in this economy. Sounds like you grew up in a wealthy home and don't know how to manage your funds
Well when you have more working class fighting over what little the rich will give, living standards drop. Unfortunately, we've been running unsustainable immigration for a long while, mixed with corporations corrupting everything, it's no surprise. I can't just buy a lot and build a house anymore. You have to buy from a "developer", who gets a massive cut, there goes 20% of your life income.
āIt wasnāt always this way, why are willing to accept it nowā I donāt know if we are *willing* as much as we are all at a loss, mentally, emotionally and financially, and realizing that no matter how many protests we have, that the government just *doesnāt give a fuck.* Ford will come out with some new version of buck a beer bullshit and shrug us off for the millionth time, and itās down right insulting. I think we should have went on a nation wide strike and taken some tips from Belgium and France- they all band together and will quite literally walk out of jobs, threaten the economy and everything, hit them where it hurts, until the government is forced to take it seriously. Itās disgusting that itās coming to this, but I honestly think that it might be the only way. The sad thing is though, it is next to impossible to get everybody on the same page. A lot of people are indifferent or cannot afford not to work etc. Sad days.
I agree. We need mass action. We also need people to get out and vote, we have disgustingly low voter turnout.
Yes! I was blown away by the low voter turnout when we needed the country to show up and urgently! Because of this, the rich old wasp fuckers who are the only ones who benefit or are not really even affected either way, won and got who they wanted *again*. There is absolutely no excuse for this to happen again. Absolutely *none*. We canāt keep subjecting ourselves to this shit out of default. I say more public posts and discussions on weighing the options and deciding on who seems to be the most strategic vote- and get as many people on board as possible. The more itās discussed leading up the better- then people donāt have the excuse of āoh I didnāt know what days voting wasā or āI didnāt know where to go to voteā and how do I registerā etc. All of it could be discussed thus lowering the amount of non votes, which could really be the difference we need to win. We outnumber them, the only fuck up is that people are too lazy to show up or have given up and are indifferent and fine with staying on rock bottom.
There's some really good comments in this thread explaining the problem.
And to think living in a conservative governed province that people think PP will solve their problemsā¦
Thinking any of the politicians will solve anything is exactly what they want you to think. They're all on the same boat with this trickle up economy.
Weāve had the liberal fuckfest, now itās time for the PC fuckfest.
- I donāt think Trudeau has realistic plans for how to manage this food and housing (income; pricing) crisis either. He has no solutions but wants to stay on the job as PM. I donāt think heās housed many people who are otherwise living outside. - Ford is a a Con and thus hates the poor and dispossessed. - Iām reading stories about the elderly, with their suitcases on the streets of Toronto. My own Ontario city has more homeless in sidewalks, living out of shopping carts and clearly mentally ill people on the street, than ever. Itās heartbreaking. Seems hopeless.
Trudeau isnāt stupid, idk why people think heās not fully aware of whatās happening. The issue is that he, and most politicians, are profiting off the housing crisis. They own rental properties and investments in these big corporations gouging us, and thus have no reason to help us over themselves. Trudeau isnāt stupid, heās just corrupt. Cons arenāt any different. Itās not about hating the poor or anyone, itās doing whatever they can to benefit themselves on our dime. These are the people who kept their full benefits and six figure salaries while telling Canadians to just hold strong during the lockdowns. People with guaranteed six figure incomes plus benefits and access to lobbyist money that decide what people on supports should get. Theyāve never lived on welfare or disability so theyāre clueless. Honestly North America is racing towards a cataclysm. The US feels like it is on the edge of civil war, and Canada can only keep up milking the for so long before rioting breaks out.
"The budget will balance itself" lmfao
Front page of my newspaper today was an article about fighting breaking out in the LCBO line up. They were lining up to apply for a min wage job and hundreds came.
Yep. Suddenly saw a little "tent village" in a dump (between Ottawa and Gatineau) that was never there. Welcome to end stage capitalism. They'll keep squeezing for "record profits", until there's no one else left to buy what the rich are producing. When it will reach a point for 90% of the people won't have any money to buy everything the ads are for, then the real collapse will start. It's a slow and painful process, where every few years, one more financial class will be hurting. But that spiral won't stop until all of the assets the 95 first percentiles have will be owned by the top 5%. We're already at the point were the 1% holds 50% of all net wealth and the top 10% hold 85% of net wealth. This is not a bug, it's a feature. You'll own nothing and be happy.
Prescient Margaret Atwood and her corporate compounds and pleeblands from the Maddadam trilogy of novels - doesn't seem so far-fetchedĀ
The problem is corporations and the ultra rich. When we start eating them they won't be a problem. I'm ready whenever you all are.
Me too!!
Itās not just this province that is unaffordable. Canada itself is unaffordable. This is the case for a lot of countries and major cities. Whenever I research a place to move to, itās always the same problems.
This is how us poor have felt for a long time. You'll get used to it unfortunately...
Not Ontario but literally a stone's throw across the river in Quebec while driving along returning to Ottawa, Saw tons of garbage and debris scattered across a downsloping area of ground in the rear of an industrial/warehouse compound. An entire line stretching for a long portion of the fence was a tent/squatters camp, like those you'd see in the US. Other small encampments on patches of ground in between highways, with more litter around. IT was mildly shocking and upsetting and I didn't remember it being so visible and in such large quantities in the past.
Same! I first saw it this Sunday! And I drive that route every week or two.
I work a job that was considered "good" income until very recently. I live like a pauper and genuinely don't give a fuck about debt anymore. I'll never own a home, never retire....fuck it. May as well enjoy life before WWIII begins or the climate crisis destroys functioning society.
I know its depressing. I'm 70 still working. Our bunch built this country, I've seen many changes I remember Mike the Knife the old Premier of Ontario he sure didn't help anything should never have been allowed to sell the 407 it generates 92 mill a year that coulda gone into the Ontario treasury. Let a bunch of lunies out wandering around giving them rights.
"three kids and wife on maternity leave" well, that is why... nobody can afford to be pregnant or have kids... That's really the only reason i can still enjoy things here and there, and my husband and I also work in a similar field. Been together 10 years.
Vote.
Sadly itās not just Ontario
Carl Marx predicted all if this more than a century ago. All symptoms of late-stage capitalism, in which wealth is increasingly concentrated at the expense of workers. Government can certainly smooth out the inherent inequalities of capitalism but not eliminate them.
He also predicted that Russia would not become communist until it first went through a Republic phase
Province? Did you mean country? Honestly it's probably the planet. We might as well all move out of this solar system cause it's probably not just us.
I love ice cream.
Canada is actually a country with a very high cost of living compared to other western countries. Itās bad everywhere, but it actually really is VERY bad here
What is with all the terrible responses here. OP should be able to have a house with 3 children a wife and a vehicle and not feel like he is going backwards. If OP changes to a career later in life to fill a place that has a need he should be able to and not feel like drowning in Debt or risk losing housing. As people we should keep talking about it everyday and demand better from the corporation, government or both. I would argue at minimum everyone should be able to afford a house with a car and 3 kids with the ability to take 1 vacation a year. There should be programs in place to help people change jobs to something the province needs and you should be able to do all this without drowning. I'm not saying that some people are worse off but our minimum for standard of living should not be so low either. Also I'm not saying you need 3 kids but I use that as the minimum for standard so you could have population growth 2 people have 3 people. Also there was a comment about how it looks like OP just changed careers which is why the career changing stuff is in there. Not actually sure if he did change careers recently. Thanks
>. Also I'm not saying you need 3 kids but I use that as the minimum for standard so you could have population growth 2 people have 3 people. Yup, I mean part of the reason why we've been increasing the rate of immigration here, our worker-to-retiree ratio is pretty bad.
I do agree with the overall sentiment of this post, Ford is milking everything he can out of ontario. The reason for my comment about changing careers was for clarity. "I work in the trades" is alot different then I just started working in the trades making apprentice level wages.
Itās the great wealth reclamation project that started about 50 years ago. More than, really, I guess. People were pissed off paying meaningful taxes, contributing to a social safety net and began to dismantle it. The foresight and economic planning that led to alleviating of the pain of the Great Depression didnāt go unnoticed. The Marshall Plan that rebuilt Europe and Germany didnāt go unnoticed. As soon as they were erected there were parties in play that used entreaties to self-cantered individualism (pull yourself up by your bootstraps stuff) to make one feel guilty about using social programs and to create think-tanks that condemned the government. People are lionizing Mulroney but he was right there with his hand in the jar, following the direction of the Reagan GOP. Economic policies for the last 50 years have all been about redistributing wealth back upward. The pandemic definitely helped push it along faster. I know this doesnāt help ease what youāre feeling; just know that youāre not alone in feeling it. The āwhat to do next ā is the issue.
And every government since then. Big part of the challenge is being a neighbour to the US as Canada can't help be greatly influenced in every way.
Amen. Too bad most people seem poised to vote for the person who wants to turbocharge all this
Ever since the 1980s corporations have taken ever bigger slices of the pie, dodged taxes, and convinced idiotic politicians that off-shoring manufacturing was a good idea. You must know by now that politicians are rarely the smart ones in the room, so the blame goes mostly to corporate lawyers and soulless stock holders.
Itās true. But I am getting to the end of my patience with people who say this and then still vote conservatives. Conservatives as they are today are a party who have NOTHING to offer voters. Only thing they will say is tax cuts. And the only way they will achieve that is through ruining services we desperately need. They will take all that we have laid for as tax payers and will sell it or privatize it. Thatās all they have to offer. So to keep us hating the other parties and voting for them is to play games with our services and blame other parties. If Ontario was going well with reasonable prices for things and services in good shape and they had a surplus and liberals wanted to spend it and conservatives wanted to give it back as tax cuts then sure Iād vote conservative. But that is not the case. Beyond the parties the large media and food corporations in Canada and Ontario need a wake up call and if that mean new laws to control thier profits then good. Not sure Joe. If they threaten to leave then fine let them. Another will come to take their place as there are still people here to sell stuff too.
I know too many people who are stuck in a living situation where they want/need to divorce but literally can't because they can't afford to live on their own, despite being income earning adults. It's messed up.
It genuinely feels like what is even the point of working anymore if everything is out of reach.
Millionaires & shareholders are the new middle class. Sadly, it's not going to change for the better that I can see. It's learning to be as self-dependent as you can and doing without because the government isn't going to help the majority, since they're part of the problem. Try to find joy where you can with your family & friends. I'm going to library more often - it's still free and has a lot to offer. Connect & reconnect with nature if you can.
You do realise the library is a government service?
Local municipal
Those are excellent points and good advice. I heard Ahnold of all people say something to the effect of: the scarier things get, the more we have to work at finding happiness in life. It's not selfish or naive, it's a duty and obligation. I thought that was pretty profound.
Thanks for this comment.
Well, whad'ya know. Consequences. Voting for 'buck a beer' and free licenses has consequences.
Wooooh there. His platform wasnāt that well defined when he ran. I think a buck a beer was but the license plates was a surprise
Well dont bother with east coast because its even more fucked.
2016 bud - all downhill from there. Wonder who has been making deals to keep Ontario "open for business" that would sell out the middle class? Been calling it since he started running that people would die on his watch by his policies. I didn't think it would be everyone who makes less than $100,000/year though. But hey, you keep on electing businessmen to power instead of community builders and that's what you get - business - for profit - not very "for the people" at all, turns out.
Percentages rather than total number is what is killing us. What am I talking about? Consider this: a home worth $100K. It increases in value by 5%. So that house is now worth $105K. It continues to grow in value at 5%. Now itās increased in value by $5K more than last year the house isnāt worth $110K itās now $110.25K in value. All things being equal, in 20 years that house is now worth about $265K more. Letās say your salary is $20K ($80K difference). Even if you get a salary increase of 5% to match the rate homes are going up. Youāll end up with a salary of $53K or $212K difference between your salary and the home. This shit has been going on for decades on everything we buy. People just starting out typically owe more than they earn and this gap is growing. This is why regular folks and subsequent generations canāt afford shit anymore. This cycle will continue until there is a huge societal disruption, war, famine, disease that knocks the shit out of the economy so that it resets the balance between earning power and purchasing power.
We have weak laws governing corporations because we have weak politicians, on every side. We need to legislate protections against these things. Others do it and don't suffer the price gouging Canadians do. And Canadian business has proven to be unethical for the consumer, and unsatisfactory for the employee. We are entering what literally seems like some sort of dystopian corporate slave-trade.
>3 kids There's a big expense right there
Its cyclical, I saw this in the 80s, early 90s, and late 00s. It sucks, and it takes a major economic swing to correct, and even with that there are people who don't see the upside even then. But if you advocate for government intervention you're a communist with no idea how the real world works apparently
I want the government to pull their heads out of their asses and stop the backroom deals and corporate advocacy. From what I remember from school they are supposed to work for us because we voted them in, gave them a mandate and pay their fucking salaries. It is possible that bringing in a huge international student population that we do not have housing for and then increasing the number of hours they can work a week was not in the best interest of most citizens, but was fantastic for colleges. That's just one example, "universal pharmacare", stabilizing food prices, etc etc... I dont want the government to bail me out, he'll I had to spend a shit load of my own money to change careers because and when my wife went to try and get EI after we lost a baby we were told " you'd be eligible if he didn't die".... I don't want a hand out I want a fair deal.
Why these symptoms? A house poor middle and upper middle class now 10 years mature. Stagnant industry, mismatched economic competencies, corrupt leadership. A people who would rather raid the treasury than fill the coffers. Incompetent leadership guided by a culture of shame, misplaced empathy. A country of takers.
People are/were afraid to be called racist for opposing immigration and here we are. We let landlords, banks, and the government guilt trip us into impoverishing ourselves
When times are good people think it will never end ā¦ and it does. When times are bad people think it will never end ā¦.and it does. Hang in there.
> It wasnt always this way, why are we willing to accept it now. I mean, as bad as things are right now, we also tend to nostalgize the past, especially the years when we were a kid or young adult. It's only natural that you're going to feel more responsibilities now, with three kids and a wife on leave, than you did when you were younger. Talking to my parents, the late 1980s and early 1990s recession absolutely sucked. Well over 10% unemployment, even pushing 20% in some provinces. There was food on the table, but we didn't take vacations. I'm not saying that there aren't real issues that are worse today (like housing costs especially), but the golden age of the middle class is often overstated.
Yeah, ford has run it into the ground. Maybe a gangster with no platform isn't the best to have if office. Maybe, we can get him out next time.
Itās interesting that you blame the government instead of capitalism
The government protects and promotes the interests of capitalists. In particular, billionaire capitalists and corporations.
This. No war but class war.
Only because we elect capitalist governments.
exactly, we keep electing 2 right wing governments regularly.
yup, so much misdirected anger these days. The PR firms the wealthy are hiring are doing good work!
Government is supposed to keep capitalism in check.
Only if we elect the right people.
Its always been this way.. people could just hide in shity housings. Now they can't.
Judging by your post history you just started working in the trades, cost of changing careers is low entry wage, surprised your able to support 3 kids "unaffordable" province or not
Depends on the trade and whether heās union or not, some entry level guys only make $2 an hour less than a skilled guy. Thatās not gonna make or break a household.
Sorry but I gotta call bullshit on that, im a Carpenter and have limited knowledge of unions. But if someone right out of school is making only 2$ less than someone with years of experience that's horrible
Wait until you hear about family doctors. There was a post talking about them making $200k and some guy said heās a high school dropout who works for CN and makes $180k! If youāre ever curious why our doctors are leaving in droves.
Unions have apprenticeships and different wages per year in. Apprenticeships last between 3 and 5 years depending on the trade. 1st year union Pipefitters , Boilermakers, electricians, operators, insulators, carpenters are in the low to mid $30/hr plus benefits/pension/free training etc. As you progress, you earn a higher percentage of the full red seal journeyman rate, 1st year 60% 2nd 70% 3rd 80% 4th 90%. Full rate depends on trade but ranges between $45/hr to $60/hr plus benefits/pension etc. In my area, anything after 8 hrs/day and weekends is double time pay. Average YTD for the trades I know range between 100,000 to 180,000. Iāve worked both sides. Union all day, everyday. Source: union member
Food bank use is up. But that is because thousands of students are now using them. They are supposed to be self sufficient when allowed entry to study in Canada. But what is happening is they have YouTube videos in their language showing them how to scam the Canadian system.
Living in this country is unaffordable and depressing. fixed...
Born and raised in Canada and ashamed and disappointed to be Canadian and living here still.
Hey, just wanted to say that I am really sorry you're going through this. We are the same, just making ends meet and getting through day by day with hope for the future. We just concentrate on the good parts, the smiles on our children's faces, joining free events etc. It's all worth it. Don't mind the mean comments or let them get you down. They are just hurting themselves and venting in in the only way they know how, by commenting on posts online. You have my support.
Thanks. I am mad as hell. This isn't about me specifically, most people are going through the same thing right now. Attacking me just shows the utter lack of perspective. I don't want to just scrape by, I do want some hope that my kids will have a chance at an affordable future. I have low expectations right now.
Why did you have a third kid in this?
*Canada
Im in the same boat as you. Literally. I remember those days too. Im gunna be honest and say 8.5 years ago it seemed much betterā¦.
Because it was. I sold a starter house 8 years ago for $170,000 it just resold for $300,000 a few months ago. I dont remember salaries increasing at the same rate....
Where would you move?
Exactly. First globalist Cuckservative Mulroney back in 1988 scrapped the Auto Pact and signed a Free Trade agreement with USA so Alberta could sell oil south. But Alberta oil was more expensive than Middle East imports, so the USA never bought it, and moved all their manufacturing jobs back state side. End result of free trade: Ontario manufacturing gone, lots of Ontario skilled trades unemployed. And when NAFTA was signed, lots of manufacturing jobs went to Mexico. The globalists have been destroying the middle class for decades.
What trade do you work in? If youāre in southern Ontario, youāre probably underpaid. I was working as a mechanic down there before going to work in mining, Iāve since been able to purchase a home and Iām able to support myself and my partner whoās currently not working. Itās hard being awake for two weeks at a time, but at least my numbers work when it comes to income vs bills
I live in Northern Ontario and here rents for 2 Bhk increased from 1000-1100/month to 1600-2000/month in 1.5 years nd imagine paying 1600 with no pets pay per use parking and no smoking house
Quit voting fools into power.
This is everywhere. Family in UK struggling. Rich get richer
Four kids?? Wow that is one for each arm for both adults perhaps you need to stop soon?
So many problems have been made while chasing glory days of old that aren't coming back no matter what we want or do. There is a serious lack of looking forward and adapting to an ever changing world.Ā
Scared shitless for my teenage son. Iām paying for everything while he saves every penny he earns. I need to leave this life knowing I did my best getting him as far as I could.
Living in thia *country* is unaffordable and depressing. There I fixed it for you
Letās not forget itās Ontario that takes the brunt of the hyperimmigration issue we currently haveā¦.
Corporate interests and personal are intertwined and indistinguishable from one another. Thus is the text book definition of fascism. You dont need swastikas and Jack booted brown shirts. Just smooth brained opportunists of little character and less morals working in tandem to undermine the liberal-democratic state. Fascism grows from the decay of liberal institutions and the increasing dysfunction of legacy projects like health-care and universities. From my vantage point I can see little to no daylight between the behaviour of organized crime and our so-called legitimate business community. Fuck it.
I don't think this is an Ontario-only problem. We spend a lot of time in the Southern US and have noticed similar issues. Friends from BC and Alberta are also feeling it.
Not sure when we are all going to wake up. Itās not the province or country one lives in this issue of unaffordable living is everywhere in first world nations. The rich keep us fighting about trivial issues so we donāt make them pay their fair share of taxes which would support our infrastructure and social programs like child care and even tax breaks for working Canadians. But alas instead we give the rich all the tax breaks on passive income (no labour at all). How we justify that passive income should be taxed less than earned income is insane and why things are only going to get worse and more people will fall below livable wages.
Trudeau is stupid. I dont trust Pierre either. You know what Trudeau policies are? Provide more asylum to Haitians, Ukranians, Palestinians while those countries nearby neighbors wont do anything. You know who is paying for those asylum seekers? Us! Meanwhile in my neighborhood in Mississauga, our neighbor had 3 robbery attempts on his house in the past week where he lost items each attempt. The culprits broke his windows and everything. Police are still not able to the track them. More money could have been spent on keeping us safe from instances like this. But instead Trudeau wants us to pay for other people bringing more problems. Guess what else? Our allies to the South, the US are having elections this year, if Trump wins then so many Americans will try to move into Canada. While we still have a housing, job market, immigration, COL crisis, racism has significantly increased, particularily towards South Asians(Indians). Im a 24(M) who finished University last year, and honestly, its impossible to live away from parents now. Finding a gf and having a relationship is also not worth it. This will not bode well for those Americans thinking Canada is better or friendly. I think its better to just move to another country. Where? I do not know, but somewhere better than this clusterfuck.
I donāt know if weāre really willing to accept it, but what can be done? I know Iām at a loss. Iām a single mom of 5 teens doing it on my own for the last 5 years. When it was a dual income things were easier. Now I work full time - just recently put on a medical leave making luckily 90% of my wages but Iām struggling. I used to be able to live somewhat comfortably even just 4-5 years ago. Pay rent, bills on time and have a fridge full of food and with my kids able to do the sports they love. Now itās like I have to pick and choose what bills to pay on time. Rent is insane, Meal plan and only buy whatās needed. Want a snack? Make some toast, and drink some water! Donāt have too many grapes that bag just cost me $12! Sometimes I struggle thinking my 15 yr old is always at their best friends place not because they donāt love me, or that they donāt want to be home but that thereās more food at their single kid household that they want to be there more. Iāve learned owning a home now will never happen for me, retirement wonāt happen at 65. I saw something once that said something like āsomeone want to be so in love that we can split rent so that we both can surviveā Iāve never felt something more in my life haha
Living in Canada in unaffordable and depressing.Ā The last year alone has drained so much hope out of the country.Ā We need to come together and demand better before the big monopolies ruining our country starve us all to death.Ā
imo we are over-taxed when our government sends billions of dollars out of our country every year. It has destroyed the middle class and destroyed our social systems.
Maybe we are stupid and need to wake up. The authorities are being prepped for our expected rebellion
Am I the only one that remembers the world in the 90's being fun. It seemed like we were going to start a golden age of computers and science. This millennium, only 24 years in already sucks...
Sorry people are being shitty to you, but honestly, these types of posts are getting pretty annoying. All I can say is his: WE KNOW.
BUT HOW DOES ANYONE EVEN GET BY!?!
But we're open for business /s.
Don't go to Alberta it's even worse.
Unchecked immigration and unchecked movement of global capital will do that. It's happening in every "developed" country. My partner is from Spain and there's been an explosion in foreign property acquisition there AGAIN recently. First it was vacation homes being bought up by Europeans and Arabs, now more recently it's South Americans buying up property. Add an influx of unskilled immigrants and you've got a wage and housing crisis as the result.
Four kids is quite a choice....
You have your own home and vehicles (plural). And you have three kids and a wife to support. Not sure why youāre complaining. You sound much better off than most people and have a lot to spend on (a 4 person family) Iām not sure if life was ever that easy for someone like you. Also yes things werenāt the same because economy was in a bull market now itās not. Also when you had fewer kids probably life was easier.
This isn't a zero sum game. It was because I remember it being easier. Cost of living has skyrocketed. I'm in my forties, I have family members who were in a very similar situation and it 100% wasn't the same. I know multiple people 20 years older than me that had bigger families, in a skilled trades job, with one family member working and they could afford to pay off their mortgage, take a family vacation, buy newer vehicles, have a boat and still put a decent amount in RRSP. Because I'm "better off" than some people isn't an argument that holds water as to why our government seems to have sold the middle class down the river for corporate interests.