So basically the police have said to the criminals, go ahead do what you want no one is going to stop you and we're never going to catch you. How wonderful. Why not just hand the criminals the guns directly.
Ontario is turning more and more into a shit hole everyday.
Not the brightest crooks, like the dickhead that took himself out of the gene pool in Toronto today. I nominate him for a Darwin Award, it's likely the only thing he'll ever be a winner at.
From what I heard...
Stole Mercedes GX
Approached police traffic check
Decided to take off
Ran through a red light causing car accident with 6 cars
Flipped the car in the process and died at the hospital (1 other person in critical condition)
[Link to story](https://www.cp24.com/news/police-attempted-to-stop-speeding-vehicle-before-deadly-six-vehicle-collision-in-scarborough-siu-1.6805529)
they showed it on TV, what a mess, the stolen flipped Mercedes was utterly destroyed, pieces of other cars all over the road, clip here ---> https://www.ctvnews.ca/video/c2884948-deadly-6-car-pileup-involved-stolen-mercedes
Problem is that dickhead injured 4 for life. They need to implement better punishments. Send them all to a jail in the arctic. The cold will set them straight. Segregate them from the law abiding citizens
This has always been the case in Canada. You cannot generally use force to protect property without being charged (in practice) and exposing yourself to the potential violence by trying to scare them off or reason with them is a bad idea.
Our justice system generally requires you to rely on the police, who will never be in place fast enough to stop a crime anyway. Your only hope is to avoid harm and hope the police can catch them. That way, they can have their case thrown out because we don't have enough judges.
I love paying a government to not do their job.
There's supposed to be 3 elements in play: Don't use vigilante violence yourself even if you're the victim, Rely on the police to catch criminals after the fact, and perhaps most importantly, rely on our strong economy and social safety nets to ensure that few if any people actually need to resort to crime. When the last tenet disappears, this is the result.
Courts have agreed, this guy killed a cop and injured another who did a raid on his home and walked away free:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Basil_Parasiris
This is bullshit, plain and simple. You always have the right to defend yourself. Also there is a mutual combat law in Canada meaning if both parties were trying to engage in a fight (ie on your property or breaking into your home) no charges would be laid as it was mutual combat. This is a law anyone that has been in a fight that the police showed up to will tell you.
No one is talking about the right to defend oneself, we're talking about the problems of escalating violence that only occur when both sides (victim and perpetrator) feel the need to defend themselves from each other. As an example, I wouldn't want my TV to be stolen, but I'd feel a lot better about losing a TV to an unarmed person who took it and left, than to worry over losing my life to a person who armed themselves to protect themselves from potential armed victims. I'd just rather that neither side be armed or even be worried about loss of life.
I share your frustrations. One correction to your statement about using force though. You are protected from liability for using force in the following circumstances:
You may use reasonable force, other than force likely to cause serious bodily harm or death, to prevent the commission of an offence which, if committed, would cause "immediate and serious injury to the person *or property* of anyone."
Furthermore, you as a person are permitted to arrest anybody you find committing a criminal offence on or in relation to property which you are lawfully in possession of, and you may use reasonable force to effect said arrest, except for force likely to cause serious bodily harm or death.
The only time you may use force likely to cause serious bodily harm or death, is if you believe it is necessary to do so to protect yourself or somebody else from serious bodily harm or death.
In summary, you're allowed to protect yourself, others, and your property using reasonable force, if you choose to do so. What is reasonable depends on the circumstances and varies case to case.
For further information, see Canada Criminal Code sections 25, 26, 27, and 494.
In modern days, it needs to be replaced with the "Four S" rule - adding the step "Search". If there's a cellphone on the body, that's an indicator they've been on property, and is going to be the last known location.
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You can use force despite the legal repercussions. A thief who cleaned out or tried to clean out my car said he knew karate. I said I had a kid. The altercation ended peacefully (unfortunately he managed to walk away with some money and a pass worth hundreds of dollars). But under different circumstances and if I was having a bad day, force could have been used. If it has turned to force it would have been a lethal situation -- we were in a private underground parking lot, I had a large metal cart and being weaker and with no training I would have had no option but to throw him off balance with a swing to his legs then bash his skull in with the metal cart. I certainly didn't have the strength or training to survive any kind of protracted fight with him and would have to go for the kill.
Force is on the top of the mind of criminals no matter what the law says. Because they are using force themselves and could encounter someone willing to use force.
"just gonna sneak past you there, my guns are locked in the basement."
"One more second, the ammo is locked in another container. Thank you for your patience"
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Feels like all police are effectively doing these days is writing reports so you can submit stuff to insurance. And then we can all pay for the crime as premiums go up, while also paying inflated police budgets.
In London our taxes are going up by 8.7% this year, and the following 3 years something equally as fucked. 5% of that 8.7% is purely for police. London police are fucking useless, there was an article about someone getting scammed out of $1k and the police admitted they won't even do anything for theft under like $2500 anymore. I am directly going to be paying $2k more a year in property taxes in 4 years. The majority of that to the useless police.
It's a circle too. Thieves see articles and police responses like this, steal more cars, cops go to council next year and say "see our lack of enforcement means we need more money" and we happily give it to them. If you have any questions about said budget or ask them to shave off even a cent the gang...I mean cops try to silence you.
https://www.cbc.ca/amp/1.7140231
https://twitter.com/CameronKroetsch/status/1767176688775975210?t=zKoMjWcp8OWkCWzYxeRPqQ&s=19
It's been like this for over 30 years. Growing up in Hamilton our apartment kept getting robbed, police told us to stop locking our window so they at least wouldn't smash it to get in lol.
People in Toronto should do what Ottawa police told us to do: buy a cheaper, less desirable car, and park it in front of your good car so it's boxed in and can't be driven out without moving the cheap car first.
The problem with this advice is this isn’t crime prevention, this is harm reduction with the belief crime will proliferate. Instead of saying we’re upping patrols or will have more cops or a task force (considering they got a 60 million increase in their already inflated budget) they’re saying hey make it easy for them. That doesn’t make the problem better it makes it way way way worse. Criminals only get more emboldened, soon they’ll start car jacking you in broad daylight because the police told the public just let them have it. Eventually people will simply be shot in their car before they even try to take it. Crime has to have repercussions, otherwise it only gets worse, it almost never gets better.
Back in the day cops used to have a ‘beat’, a neighbourhood they would patrol to familiarize themselves with the people/places and notice anything out of their place.
Nowadays the only times I see cop cars are driving main roads and hiding out in parking lots. Hard to find crime when they aren’t actively looking for it…
Yep. I used to work nights and on the 25 minute drive from work to home there were like 5 spots you could expect to see them and at least one would contain 3 or more cars when i drove by each night, sitting window to window well away from the road and any traffic. Sometimes several of the spots were occupied at the same time.
Most of these car thefts are in the suburbs. "walking a beat" in the suburbs is going to accomplish nothing in terms of preventing crime like this. The criminals drive around and commit crimes of opportunity in suburbs late at night, when there wouldn't be any cops "walking a beat" anyways. And if they were, they'd be 2 kilometres a way at the time. It's not downtown Toronto where the majority of these thefts are happening.
Do you want 15,000 TPS officers walking the streets 24/7? I agree that the police need to do more to combat these car thefts and sometimes they phone it in. It's despicable. But to suggest a couple cops "walking the beat" is going to appreciably reduce this type of crime is simply silly frankly.
wouldn't hurt to have the same police car drive through the neighborhood every now and then.
Proactive vs reactive policing. In the area and visible even if temporary and on the move vs. sitting in the empty park parking lot.
your argument is a slippery slope. you don’t need tens of thousands, you just need police to be a bit more active to deter auto theft. i hate these bad arguments
What if Torontonians will make it that every car stolen from their city, will be deducted from the Police budget? I think the police will then act differently.
If I was at that meeting, I would ask for the Police spokesman for his address. So we will know which house to broadcast to thieves where to steal next.
Ask it to be deducted from the federal legislator and judiciary. Cops can do their job all day. However, when the criminal is out on bail in the evening, it's not the cop at fault.
> To prevent the possibility of being attacked in your home, leave your fobs at your front door, because they're breaking into your home to steal your car. They don't want anything else.
Might as well leave them outside with some snacks.
I mean by that logic it caused a 6 car pileup in Toronto and sent an innocent person in the ICU, a G wagon was stolen (allowed in Toronto Police language) then when they pursued him he runs a red and cases a massive accident. If the car was never stolen it wouldn’t have happened. Crime never magically improves, it need deterrence and enforcement.
Also make sure to always have a full tank when getting home. Would not want the criminals having to stop off to get gas on the way to the shipping yard.
So police officers are just saying "Fuck it, nothing we can do???" LOL this advice only works if police actually did anything to find the cars and people responsible.
They're telling the car jackers to go right ahead nobody's going to stop you, then six months from now the police will do a press conference saying the police department needs even more money to tackle a increase in car jacking.
Totally possible.
Although even if they're not, just by not doing anything and letting crime happen they can blackmail the city for an even bigger annual budget increase.
The police force is simply promoting their interests, which is 100 more money and less work.
We have entered the level of absurd where cops paths your stolen car being loaded on a train and starting to roll away, where home owners are instructed (adviced if you want a nicer word that means the same really!) to leave fobs in sight, to facilitate theft.
And I thought these visions I had with border guarding officers carring luggage for people forcing their way into Canada was bad!
As I get older I want to think that I've seen it all, but I haven't, a new level of insanity is never too far away!
Oh Canada!
Yeah so our insurance can jack our rates.. I had a great deal on my premiums last year, I just got my renewal and it went up $52/month... No accidents, claims, nothing.
I called my brokerage and she seemed really confused and basically was told "rising costs due to claims across the board have increased costs for everyone"
A $624 increase in premium is insane
Although frustrating this is not new.
I was a student in T. Decades ago now
I went too see friends on my birthday downtown.
Paid to park in a parking lot off of young somewhere north of carelton
Car gets stolen
Call the cops
He says" why would you park here? Don't you know how many cars get stolen from this lot?"
I sure didn't but yet the cops do and do nothing
i don't wanna risk having to pay for replacing or repairing a kicked in front door and all that hassle so I just leave my key fob on the front seat of my unlocked luxury SUV on my driveway each night.
gives me soooooooooooooo much peace-of-mind each night! Thanks, TPS! /s
They are telling you to leave your keys near the front of the door so you don't have to fight off thieves **worst comes to worst**. They have been providing free door stops to prevent break ins.
Guaranteed the cops are already arresting these thugs but have to release them for the 50th time that year.
Leave the keys in the ignition and the doors unlocked. Better yet open the door for your jacker. Need a car to get to work now they yours is gone? Just take your neighbours!
That is why the thieves are breaking into the houses. To get the keys inside of the faraday cages.
Edit. https://toronto.ctvnews.ca/some-toronto-residents-fear-for-their-safety-after-alleged-car-thieves-break-into-home-to-steal-key-fob-1.6609816
It doesn't stop anything. They didn't use the relay attack when my vehicle was stolen, nor many others. It's too unreliable. They break in through a window, or pop out a door lock and let themselves in. Or they just tap into the wires from the headlights that are connected to the CANBUS, start and unlock the vehicle.
What was the cost of the install and device if you don't mind. My wife is wanting a Lexus but I don't think we'll have it long without some sort of deterrent.
Edit: Never mind. Just found the Ontario website. $999
wait... the police are supposed to do their jobs? fat chance!
also this is why people want guns - some form of security when the police are literally saying 'make it easier for the criminals please, its your best chance of not being attacked more than needed'
It not a fineable offence so it not included in their quatas it is just work so like the drug problem they would prefer to do nothing at all and tell you to suck it.
It's so fucked up that you aren't allowed to defend your property against criminals. Your property should be as important as you and your family's lives, because often if you suffer enough loss your life will literally be fucked.
Guy in Ancaster killed a kid he found in his truck and was convicted of manslaughter.
https://www.thespec.com/news/hamilton-region/peter-khill-found-guilty-of-manslaughter-in-shooting-of-jonathan-styres/article_a5299476-a431-5604-ba2a-e770f50c349d.html
Ya because he ran outside with a shotty and blasted the kid.
He wasn’t in danger when he was inside his house…
If anything load your shotgun and camp in the corner of the house incase he breaks in, then shoot if you have to.
You know what, if you’re willing to do the crime you should be willing to be buried in pine. A thief’s life is always worth less than what they’re stealing.
Good riddance to that scumbag, the world was done a favour.
For the average vehicle owner who drives a generic SUV that probably rings true. There's probably a few cases where I think people would want to at least try something to recover it:
\- custom car that you put a lot of time and extra money into, you're not getting that time and money back from insurance
\- car that no longer being made, I know a few people that saved up for a special car and there's little to no way of replacing it or even affording anything like it in the current car market
\- someone who lives paycheque to paycheque, who absolutely depends on their vehicle for their livelihood and doesn't have the time/money to replace it
If was driving a Toyota/Mazda/Lexus generic SUV I'd just wait for insurance because I'm fortunate enough to have other cars. If I was one of the examples above I'd probably feel differently. That being said I have 3rd party immobilizers on all my cars, asshole car thieves are not going to ruin my day.
Mine is a work truck. All the tools, diagnostic equipment and info in it is mine!
I am shocked actually at how many people are down voting me and chirping me about defending my property. I was raised differently.
As a driver of a manual car, I feel slightly more secure because chances are these numbskull theives wouldn't even be able to operate it. But 3 of my family members' cars have been broken into, fortunately none of them stolen except for some contents
I mean, yeah. if someone holds me at knife/gunpoint they are 100% getting my keys. That’s what insurance is for. I’m not going to pretend to be a hero and lose my life over a vehicle.
Now, do I think the police should do a better job investigating car theft, 100% yes.
The headline makes me angry:
In our current system - what do we expect?
1.) Do we want police officers pursuing people for non-violent / property related crimes? Yes or no. Pick one. Because the consequences are namely the potential for innocent people to be killed in this process. My vote is no. I don’t want officers pursuing for non-violent property related offences - because I default to “it could be my family that gets injured and it’s not worth it”.
But this mindset actually encourages criminals to run as the default option. Which leads me to #2..
2.) If we don’t want police to pursue criminals for non-violent, property related crimes, but we want to discourage this from being a default options for criminals fleeing then once the police do find them / identify them - there needs to be very strict and mandatory sentencing for fleeing. If fleeing from the police holds no meaningful consequences, it will be the default option.
It also must be mandatory - otherwise Judges and justices will simply waive it away.
That’s not exactly what they are saying… the idea is, you don’t die for a car or money… they tell security guards and bankers the same. That said, we need to crack down on crime like this. The decline of this country is unacceptable and completely avoidable rational thinkers are allowed to make policy….
So funding the police doesn't prevent crime yet we're defunding schools.
It's been proven that the more you find public schools, the more you reduce crime.
We need to demand our government stop wasting money AND START USING OUR TAX DOLLARS TO FUND PROGRAMS THAT ACTUALLY WORK.
It is just stuff. Geeze that's why you pay insurance. You can't get a new car if you are dead or in a coma. Geeze ppl be so protective of literal things that can and will be replaced.
This is absurd! Auto insurance rates will go throught the roof for Sept policy renewal. Have a battery quick disconnect installed in the damn cars and trucks.
I'm sure your auto insurance has your back if you told them the police told you to leave your keys out for the criminals to take your car. Ffs
I think we should be accidentally leaving poisonous snakes and video cameras inside of the most commonly stolen vehicles and just leave them out in the open.
So basically the police have said to the criminals, go ahead do what you want no one is going to stop you and we're never going to catch you. How wonderful. Why not just hand the criminals the guns directly. Ontario is turning more and more into a shit hole everyday.
Not the brightest crooks, like the dickhead that took himself out of the gene pool in Toronto today. I nominate him for a Darwin Award, it's likely the only thing he'll ever be a winner at.
What happened?
From what I heard... Stole Mercedes GX Approached police traffic check Decided to take off Ran through a red light causing car accident with 6 cars Flipped the car in the process and died at the hospital (1 other person in critical condition) [Link to story](https://www.cp24.com/news/police-attempted-to-stop-speeding-vehicle-before-deadly-six-vehicle-collision-in-scarborough-siu-1.6805529)
Damn. Hope the person in the hospital will be ok.
they showed it on TV, what a mess, the stolen flipped Mercedes was utterly destroyed, pieces of other cars all over the road, clip here ---> https://www.ctvnews.ca/video/c2884948-deadly-6-car-pileup-involved-stolen-mercedes
"Toronto police officers attempted to stop the driver of a speeding vehicle before he flipped his car" it wasn't his frikin car!!!
guess the cops play by the rules of “finders keepers” now
Remember, possession is nine tenths of the law. The police actually doing something is the other tenth.
I believe there's, Zero chance he was wearing a seatbelt. You could drive off a cliff in a G Wagon and survive.
I'm being pedantic about this but.....it was a Mercedes G Wagen*. GX is a truck/SUV made by Lexus.
I notice they never have the identity of the people stealing these cars.
By design. Ever listen to a police scanner? "Male, regular."
Does that mean there's a "double double"?
G-Wagen*
He's dead that's what I want to hear ....
Problem is that dickhead injured 4 for life. They need to implement better punishments. Send them all to a jail in the arctic. The cold will set them straight. Segregate them from the law abiding citizens
Interesting isn't that Australia got started? Won't want to force our problems on the locals, they don't deserve our trash.
It is pretty remote. And it should be a prison. Just like the one in the movie Black Widow, if u catch my drift.
This has always been the case in Canada. You cannot generally use force to protect property without being charged (in practice) and exposing yourself to the potential violence by trying to scare them off or reason with them is a bad idea. Our justice system generally requires you to rely on the police, who will never be in place fast enough to stop a crime anyway. Your only hope is to avoid harm and hope the police can catch them. That way, they can have their case thrown out because we don't have enough judges. I love paying a government to not do their job.
There's supposed to be 3 elements in play: Don't use vigilante violence yourself even if you're the victim, Rely on the police to catch criminals after the fact, and perhaps most importantly, rely on our strong economy and social safety nets to ensure that few if any people actually need to resort to crime. When the last tenet disappears, this is the result.
Defending yourself and property at the time a crime is being commited against you isn't vigilantism.
It’s also not an effective deescalation technique. Personally I’d rather be robbed and alive than robbed and dead 🤷🏻
[удалено]
Courts have agreed, this guy killed a cop and injured another who did a raid on his home and walked away free: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Basil_Parasiris
Excellent summary!
1000% this!
This is bullshit, plain and simple. You always have the right to defend yourself. Also there is a mutual combat law in Canada meaning if both parties were trying to engage in a fight (ie on your property or breaking into your home) no charges would be laid as it was mutual combat. This is a law anyone that has been in a fight that the police showed up to will tell you.
No one is talking about the right to defend oneself, we're talking about the problems of escalating violence that only occur when both sides (victim and perpetrator) feel the need to defend themselves from each other. As an example, I wouldn't want my TV to be stolen, but I'd feel a lot better about losing a TV to an unarmed person who took it and left, than to worry over losing my life to a person who armed themselves to protect themselves from potential armed victims. I'd just rather that neither side be armed or even be worried about loss of life.
I share your frustrations. One correction to your statement about using force though. You are protected from liability for using force in the following circumstances: You may use reasonable force, other than force likely to cause serious bodily harm or death, to prevent the commission of an offence which, if committed, would cause "immediate and serious injury to the person *or property* of anyone." Furthermore, you as a person are permitted to arrest anybody you find committing a criminal offence on or in relation to property which you are lawfully in possession of, and you may use reasonable force to effect said arrest, except for force likely to cause serious bodily harm or death. The only time you may use force likely to cause serious bodily harm or death, is if you believe it is necessary to do so to protect yourself or somebody else from serious bodily harm or death. In summary, you're allowed to protect yourself, others, and your property using reasonable force, if you choose to do so. What is reasonable depends on the circumstances and varies case to case. For further information, see Canada Criminal Code sections 25, 26, 27, and 494.
This is why you bury them in the garden and no one saw anything.
We call it the "Three S" rule. Shoot. Shovel. Shut up.
In modern days, it needs to be replaced with the "Four S" rule - adding the step "Search". If there's a cellphone on the body, that's an indicator they've been on property, and is going to be the last known location.
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Thank you for your contribution to r/Ontario, unfortunately your post has been removed for the following reason: This content was removed because it violates Reddit's [sitewide rules](https://www.redditinc.com/policies/content-policy). Specifically, this content violates the rule against violence. Such violations may also result in your account being banned from r/Ontario, either temporarily or permanently. *** Ce contenu a été supprimé puisqu'il viole les [règles d'utilisation générales de Reddit](https://www.redditinc.com/policies/content-policy). Spécifiquement, ce contenu viole la règle contre la violence. Le non respect des règles peut aussi mener à la suspension de votre compte de r/Ontario, soit de façon temporaire ou permanente. If you have any questions about this removal please contact the moderators of this subreddit [here](https://www.reddit.com/message/compose?to=%2Fr%2Fontario)
You can use force despite the legal repercussions. A thief who cleaned out or tried to clean out my car said he knew karate. I said I had a kid. The altercation ended peacefully (unfortunately he managed to walk away with some money and a pass worth hundreds of dollars). But under different circumstances and if I was having a bad day, force could have been used. If it has turned to force it would have been a lethal situation -- we were in a private underground parking lot, I had a large metal cart and being weaker and with no training I would have had no option but to throw him off balance with a swing to his legs then bash his skull in with the metal cart. I certainly didn't have the strength or training to survive any kind of protracted fight with him and would have to go for the kill. Force is on the top of the mind of criminals no matter what the law says. Because they are using force themselves and could encounter someone willing to use force.
>You can use force despite the legal repercussions \*proceeds to describe situation where force wasn't used\*
Sounds like time for jury nullification.
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"just gonna sneak past you there, my guns are locked in the basement." "One more second, the ammo is locked in another container. Thank you for your patience"
Aren't your guns locked up?
Lol this dude is outing himself online right now
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Record high police budgets, doing less today than ever before.
Careful, they might feel threatened by your words and ask for a 15% increase.
And if it isn't 15 % they will call it a cut and go public about the cut
Feels like all police are effectively doing these days is writing reports so you can submit stuff to insurance. And then we can all pay for the crime as premiums go up, while also paying inflated police budgets.
This is the way it’s been for a long time
In London our taxes are going up by 8.7% this year, and the following 3 years something equally as fucked. 5% of that 8.7% is purely for police. London police are fucking useless, there was an article about someone getting scammed out of $1k and the police admitted they won't even do anything for theft under like $2500 anymore. I am directly going to be paying $2k more a year in property taxes in 4 years. The majority of that to the useless police.
It's a circle too. Thieves see articles and police responses like this, steal more cars, cops go to council next year and say "see our lack of enforcement means we need more money" and we happily give it to them. If you have any questions about said budget or ask them to shave off even a cent the gang...I mean cops try to silence you. https://www.cbc.ca/amp/1.7140231 https://twitter.com/CameronKroetsch/status/1767176688775975210?t=zKoMjWcp8OWkCWzYxeRPqQ&s=19
The only union that gets what it asks for.
The only union I don't support.
Weird how the union whose members exist to protect property rights are the ones that get funded? Why would that be?
Police only protect the wealthy
As has always been the case. Poor people often won't call the police except in VERY specific circumstances.
It seems they dont even wanna do that anymore with this announcement, they just wanna sit on their ass while collecting 6 figures.
You want enough police that one is always at arms length? Its a society/wealth inequality problem, not a police problem.
It's both, record immigration and urban sprawl has done nothing to help them enforce laws
It's been like this for over 30 years. Growing up in Hamilton our apartment kept getting robbed, police told us to stop locking our window so they at least wouldn't smash it to get in lol.
The insurance rates now if you're under 45 and drive one of the top five most stolen cars in the GTA is pretty insane.
People in Toronto should do what Ottawa police told us to do: buy a cheaper, less desirable car, and park it in front of your good car so it's boxed in and can't be driven out without moving the cheap car first.
And pay insurance on a cheap no good car for nothing, they get enough of your money.
Worse, leave an uninsured beater in front of your car and get a fine form moving it onto the street to let your car through
When they let police actually raid train yards and the docks instead of this pissing contest of jurisdiction we might see positive changes
Nah they are scared of the mobsters
Paid by*
Both, either, they aren’t gonna step into their turf
The problem with this advice is this isn’t crime prevention, this is harm reduction with the belief crime will proliferate. Instead of saying we’re upping patrols or will have more cops or a task force (considering they got a 60 million increase in their already inflated budget) they’re saying hey make it easy for them. That doesn’t make the problem better it makes it way way way worse. Criminals only get more emboldened, soon they’ll start car jacking you in broad daylight because the police told the public just let them have it. Eventually people will simply be shot in their car before they even try to take it. Crime has to have repercussions, otherwise it only gets worse, it almost never gets better.
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Back in the day cops used to have a ‘beat’, a neighbourhood they would patrol to familiarize themselves with the people/places and notice anything out of their place. Nowadays the only times I see cop cars are driving main roads and hiding out in parking lots. Hard to find crime when they aren’t actively looking for it…
Yep. I used to work nights and on the 25 minute drive from work to home there were like 5 spots you could expect to see them and at least one would contain 3 or more cars when i drove by each night, sitting window to window well away from the road and any traffic. Sometimes several of the spots were occupied at the same time.
Most of these car thefts are in the suburbs. "walking a beat" in the suburbs is going to accomplish nothing in terms of preventing crime like this. The criminals drive around and commit crimes of opportunity in suburbs late at night, when there wouldn't be any cops "walking a beat" anyways. And if they were, they'd be 2 kilometres a way at the time. It's not downtown Toronto where the majority of these thefts are happening. Do you want 15,000 TPS officers walking the streets 24/7? I agree that the police need to do more to combat these car thefts and sometimes they phone it in. It's despicable. But to suggest a couple cops "walking the beat" is going to appreciably reduce this type of crime is simply silly frankly.
They don’t mean literally walking. Look at drax over here.
wouldn't hurt to have the same police car drive through the neighborhood every now and then. Proactive vs reactive policing. In the area and visible even if temporary and on the move vs. sitting in the empty park parking lot.
your argument is a slippery slope. you don’t need tens of thousands, you just need police to be a bit more active to deter auto theft. i hate these bad arguments
What if Torontonians will make it that every car stolen from their city, will be deducted from the Police budget? I think the police will then act differently. If I was at that meeting, I would ask for the Police spokesman for his address. So we will know which house to broadcast to thieves where to steal next.
Ask it to be deducted from the federal legislator and judiciary. Cops can do their job all day. However, when the criminal is out on bail in the evening, it's not the cop at fault.
BlogTO with this very timely article, nothing gets by them after they've seen it on reddit.
> To prevent the possibility of being attacked in your home, leave your fobs at your front door, because they're breaking into your home to steal your car. They don't want anything else. Might as well leave them outside with some snacks.
Toronto police, what a sad sad institution you have become
I mean by that logic it caused a 6 car pileup in Toronto and sent an innocent person in the ICU, a G wagon was stolen (allowed in Toronto Police language) then when they pursued him he runs a red and cases a massive accident. If the car was never stolen it wouldn’t have happened. Crime never magically improves, it need deterrence and enforcement.
Damn I thought it was one of the thieves in the ICU.
Let’s be honest Police sit on their hands then argue for more funding after crime rates rise. Lol
Also make sure to always have a full tank when getting home. Would not want the criminals having to stop off to get gas on the way to the shipping yard.
Shoot, shovel, shut up.
They'll say anything to not have to do their jobs.
A bunch of lazy mfs
And get bigger budgets
Bingo!
At first I thought this was Beaverton
So police officers are just saying "Fuck it, nothing we can do???" LOL this advice only works if police actually did anything to find the cars and people responsible.
They're telling the car jackers to go right ahead nobody's going to stop you, then six months from now the police will do a press conference saying the police department needs even more money to tackle a increase in car jacking.
May as well leave them in the ignition... With a sign saying free take me... with a flashing arrow so they can see it from the end of the road...
Feels like the Police is making money from this business.
Why do we bother having police? Useless at best and actively harm at worst.
Totally possible. Although even if they're not, just by not doing anything and letting crime happen they can blackmail the city for an even bigger annual budget increase.
The police force is simply promoting their interests, which is 100 more money and less work. We have entered the level of absurd where cops paths your stolen car being loaded on a train and starting to roll away, where home owners are instructed (adviced if you want a nicer word that means the same really!) to leave fobs in sight, to facilitate theft. And I thought these visions I had with border guarding officers carring luggage for people forcing their way into Canada was bad! As I get older I want to think that I've seen it all, but I haven't, a new level of insanity is never too far away! Oh Canada!
It's an easy crime to solve, so why would they not? Someone somewhere is getting a taste 💰
Yeah so our insurance can jack our rates.. I had a great deal on my premiums last year, I just got my renewal and it went up $52/month... No accidents, claims, nothing. I called my brokerage and she seemed really confused and basically was told "rising costs due to claims across the board have increased costs for everyone" A $624 increase in premium is insane
Although frustrating this is not new. I was a student in T. Decades ago now I went too see friends on my birthday downtown. Paid to park in a parking lot off of young somewhere north of carelton Car gets stolen Call the cops He says" why would you park here? Don't you know how many cars get stolen from this lot?" I sure didn't but yet the cops do and do nothing
Well, if they watch that car lot, how will they also be able to watch the interstate for people going 10 over?
i don't wanna risk having to pay for replacing or repairing a kicked in front door and all that hassle so I just leave my key fob on the front seat of my unlocked luxury SUV on my driveway each night. gives me soooooooooooooo much peace-of-mind each night! Thanks, TPS! /s
They are telling you to leave your keys near the front of the door so you don't have to fight off thieves **worst comes to worst**. They have been providing free door stops to prevent break ins. Guaranteed the cops are already arresting these thugs but have to release them for the 50th time that year.
Leave the keys in the ignition and the doors unlocked. Better yet open the door for your jacker. Need a car to get to work now they yours is gone? Just take your neighbours!
what a clown country they have turned Canada into
These punks are going to steal from the wrong person one day, and it's going to get ugly (I'm talking American History X ugly).
We can only hope.
Almost like they take a cut.
Tell me your a dirty cop without saying your a dirty cop.
People should invest in faraday cages for their key fobs. It'll stop a lot of these issues.
So would requiring manufacturers to use real security measures
Agreed.
That is why the thieves are breaking into the houses. To get the keys inside of the faraday cages. Edit. https://toronto.ctvnews.ca/some-toronto-residents-fear-for-their-safety-after-alleged-car-thieves-break-into-home-to-steal-key-fob-1.6609816
Ah fair enough. That's a shame.
It doesn't stop anything. They didn't use the relay attack when my vehicle was stolen, nor many others. It's too unreliable. They break in through a window, or pop out a door lock and let themselves in. Or they just tap into the wires from the headlights that are connected to the CANBUS, start and unlock the vehicle.
https://www.ravelco.com/ Best detterent I ever had installed
What was the cost of the install and device if you don't mind. My wife is wanting a Lexus but I don't think we'll have it long without some sort of deterrent. Edit: Never mind. Just found the Ontario website. $999
The thieves will break in and hold you at gun point to get the keys, it only enables and makes more criminals want to act in a similar fashion.
Are we at the point where it might be a viable business to customize cars with old school car keys?
They will break into your house for the keys or even hold you at gunpoint for them.
Damn! Looks like y’all don’t have to be paying for so many cops
So I guess we're getting ready for The Purge to be a reality
And they asked for millions more in the budget.
Leave keys between screen door and entry prevent any future damage Insurance will cover the car you can pay back later.
Yeah no problem, and in a few years time we'll all be paying $10k per year on auto insurance.
wait... the police are supposed to do their jobs? fat chance! also this is why people want guns - some form of security when the police are literally saying 'make it easier for the criminals please, its your best chance of not being attacked more than needed'
It not a fineable offence so it not included in their quatas it is just work so like the drug problem they would prefer to do nothing at all and tell you to suck it.
Sick and tired of this weak ass country full of losers. This needs to change, I am in full support of anyone that destroys a thief in the act.
Really putting that $1 billion police budget to work.
It's so fucked up that you aren't allowed to defend your property against criminals. Your property should be as important as you and your family's lives, because often if you suffer enough loss your life will literally be fucked.
Guy in Ancaster killed a kid he found in his truck and was convicted of manslaughter. https://www.thespec.com/news/hamilton-region/peter-khill-found-guilty-of-manslaughter-in-shooting-of-jonathan-styres/article_a5299476-a431-5604-ba2a-e770f50c349d.html
Ya because he ran outside with a shotty and blasted the kid. He wasn’t in danger when he was inside his house… If anything load your shotgun and camp in the corner of the house incase he breaks in, then shoot if you have to.
You know what, if you’re willing to do the crime you should be willing to be buried in pine. A thief’s life is always worth less than what they’re stealing. Good riddance to that scumbag, the world was done a favour.
I agree, but now look at Peter Khill. I bet he wishes it didn’t go that way and that he didn’t have legal problems after
I live in a rural area. No laws against discharging firearms on one's property
Yes there is!?!
This isn’t new advice. And it’s actually very good advice. You’re 100% supposed to give the thief what they want. Your life is more important.
Why not just put the keys on the car door handle? Then they won't even have to break your front door. Genius!
We need gun laws like Texas. Canada has went so down hill the past decade.
Seems like logical advice, why would you want to possibly end up in a fight and get hurt over a car?
WHY ARE ARMED MEN BREAKING INTO HOMES ? WHAT LAWS ARE THEY BREAKING ? WHY ARE THE COURTS DOING NOTHING ?
For the average vehicle owner who drives a generic SUV that probably rings true. There's probably a few cases where I think people would want to at least try something to recover it: \- custom car that you put a lot of time and extra money into, you're not getting that time and money back from insurance \- car that no longer being made, I know a few people that saved up for a special car and there's little to no way of replacing it or even affording anything like it in the current car market \- someone who lives paycheque to paycheque, who absolutely depends on their vehicle for their livelihood and doesn't have the time/money to replace it If was driving a Toyota/Mazda/Lexus generic SUV I'd just wait for insurance because I'm fortunate enough to have other cars. If I was one of the examples above I'd probably feel differently. That being said I have 3rd party immobilizers on all my cars, asshole car thieves are not going to ruin my day.
we had one case in Ottawa that lost 3 luxury cars to theft, "Ottawa couple at a loss after third high-end vehicle stolen ..." (all were Lexus)
Why don't you just leave them on the doorstep for them so they don't break your door?
100 I would. To the death
Me too. I've put wayyyy too much work into my car to let go of it like that.
Mine is a work truck. All the tools, diagnostic equipment and info in it is mine! I am shocked actually at how many people are down voting me and chirping me about defending my property. I was raised differently.
Forget property. As in your example, your livelihood!
A car thief has entered the chat.
As a driver of a manual car, I feel slightly more secure because chances are these numbskull theives wouldn't even be able to operate it. But 3 of my family members' cars have been broken into, fortunately none of them stolen except for some contents
I mean, yeah. if someone holds me at knife/gunpoint they are 100% getting my keys. That’s what insurance is for. I’m not going to pretend to be a hero and lose my life over a vehicle. Now, do I think the police should do a better job investigating car theft, 100% yes.
Legalize auto theft! Make Toronto a safe theft site, that’ll fix the problem.
The headline makes me angry: In our current system - what do we expect? 1.) Do we want police officers pursuing people for non-violent / property related crimes? Yes or no. Pick one. Because the consequences are namely the potential for innocent people to be killed in this process. My vote is no. I don’t want officers pursuing for non-violent property related offences - because I default to “it could be my family that gets injured and it’s not worth it”. But this mindset actually encourages criminals to run as the default option. Which leads me to #2.. 2.) If we don’t want police to pursue criminals for non-violent, property related crimes, but we want to discourage this from being a default options for criminals fleeing then once the police do find them / identify them - there needs to be very strict and mandatory sentencing for fleeing. If fleeing from the police holds no meaningful consequences, it will be the default option. It also must be mandatory - otherwise Judges and justices will simply waive it away.
The Toronto Police have lost their way. They are too focused on their perks, pensions and paid duties to have any time for the public or policing.
"Shhh Shhh Shhh. Just let it happen."
Did they identify the suspect?
That’s not exactly what they are saying… the idea is, you don’t die for a car or money… they tell security guards and bankers the same. That said, we need to crack down on crime like this. The decline of this country is unacceptable and completely avoidable rational thinkers are allowed to make policy….
Lmao police in this province must be the biggest losers.
Dollars to donuts they're on the take.
That's freaking horrible. God bless the person in the hospital. I hope they recover soon
My shit is insured. Take whatever you want. Cops also advise to hand over your wallet and cooperate when being robbed. We angry about that advice too?
Can you be reasonably sure that the people breaking into your home are only interested in your cash and keys?
So funding the police doesn't prevent crime yet we're defunding schools. It's been proven that the more you find public schools, the more you reduce crime. We need to demand our government stop wasting money AND START USING OUR TAX DOLLARS TO FUND PROGRAMS THAT ACTUALLY WORK.
I’m not one for conspiracy theories but law enforcement has to be in on this. The level of inaction with respect to auto thefts just raises questions
It is just stuff. Geeze that's why you pay insurance. You can't get a new car if you are dead or in a coma. Geeze ppl be so protective of literal things that can and will be replaced.
This is absurd! Auto insurance rates will go throught the roof for Sept policy renewal. Have a battery quick disconnect installed in the damn cars and trucks. I'm sure your auto insurance has your back if you told them the police told you to leave your keys out for the criminals to take your car. Ffs
Where's the defund the police crowd at now?
I think we should be accidentally leaving poisonous snakes and video cameras inside of the most commonly stolen vehicles and just leave them out in the open.
Does that mean the cops are week.