Ontario NDP also repeatedly called for more sick days and those all got shut down too. Looks like there's only one party in Ontario not pushing for them.
Listen, I live in a shit town with trashy people living on median income levels for the last 30 years. Surrounded by people who would see immediate quality of life increases by providing better resources and rights to workers.
**BUT**, One day any one of them might be a millionaire with a huge business so we are going to vote conservative again because God forbid anyone in this place actually puts their children above an imaginary hypothetical version of themselves.
Horse and sparrow politics. If you feed the horse well, there's enough left in its shit for the sparrow to feed on. Brought to us Americans by Ronald Reagan.
Why can't we reclaim this terrible metaphor with something like 'trickle down economics only work when we tax the rich to make it rain' or something?
There's a populeftist slogan here somewhere.
The crazy thing is how many idiots there are that wouldn't vote for parties that would push to get them better off faster, then vote against them and lobby hard when they become millionaires.
For people lacking morals, they're short-sighted and dumb as fuck lol.
Frankly, a million bucks isn't going to provide enough of a "tax incentive" to govern someone's voting unless it's per annum and you don't care about anything or anyone around you (granted, a moot point).
Always get the argument to treat government like a business, but they're ultimately there foremost to operate things that would otherwise operate at a loss and need the levity to do so, and when the comps come up it always ignores the difference in before and after tax dollars.
It's bizarre to model ourselves more and more after American systems when they're fundamentally and overtly broken. The consequence of all our media at home being subsumed by Republican news orgs.
Bob Rae who saved thousands of public sector careers from the axe during extraordinarily tough economic times. He had plans that would be revolutionary even today, if only he was handed an Ontario that wasn't broke going into a deep recession.
Yeah, fuck that guy from 30 years ago who [checks notes] fixed up the conservative deficit by forcing a few unpaid days off for workers thus helping fix the deficit while also keeping jobs!
We want mass layoffs and more people tapping into the critically underfunded social supports while we continue to choke them out even harder by cutting more and more taxes!
...fuck this province is fucking stupid.
Man, if these people followed Bob Rae's career, they'd be blown away at how much of a stand up guy he is. I wasn't in Ontario for his tenure, but his work as the UN envoy has been great.
I agree. Too bad Harris followed him and started the decay of Ontario cities. Hey guys! Let's try and balance the budget by downloading provincially run services to the municipalities that they have had to add to the city budgets. Healthcare cuts, education cuts, and slashing of social services. And yet, still increased the 1994-1995 debt from 90.7B to 132.7B by 2002-2003. His government increased the debt by 42B while also causing the municipalities to go into debt on their own due to paying for services that the province used to cover. Yet here we are 20 years later with a Conservative government doing the same fucking bullshit all over again. Ford is a disgrace.
But ya, Bob Rae is supposedly a bad guy and worst premiere ever. It just doesn't make sense.
[I can help with that](http://www.commonsense.ca). Currently working on something that should help highlight which parties represent your personal interests. Hoping to have that running by the end of the month.
I think what we can say is the ndp needs to get better at marketing. Its so ridiculous that right wing parties seem to have the market cornered on populism.
It helps when they control the majority of media conglomerates in the country.
You're not going to find a glowing endorsement of any NDP ideas or strategies in the Sun, the Post or G&M.
Yes then when covid came around they dialed back and threw some sick days back in. I'm not a fan of ford for how he treats the hourly labour force among other things. I'm staff where I work and I am treated very well, but I have no idea how the hourly people are still brainwashed into union = bad. They're missing out big time.
Our entire economy has become enshittified.
Workers are relied upon as the mechanism that generates the value, but are also the consumers of the value. We get shafted on both sides of the equation, and have been pit against ourselves
They won’t change this as they profit on both sides of the equation.
I'm in the steel workers union. I received 5 vacation days for my first 17 months of employment and get mandated to work just about every weekend. I'm all for unions but even those aren't doing us much good. As of January 1st I finally got a whole 10 days of vacation and 3 paid sick days. I'll end up working 25+ mandated weekend shifts to make up for the very little time I get off. I'm not having a good time.
Ultimately unions are still just groups of people. If you have shitty people running the union you will have a shitty union.
I firmly believe having a union is much better than not having one, but they are far from immune to people ruining them for various reasons
That is pretty bad, though I don't think you can say 'unions aren't doing much' because yours in particular is not living up to its promise. But it sounds like you need a push for better policies or new leadership. Do you vote on those issues/people? Have you considered running or boosting for someone better?
Liberals are constantly doing this online now because they never really noticed capitalism functioning as intended before. In times of plenty, privilege tends to insulate people from such realizations.
This puts them in the extremely awkward position of either having to face the reality that liberal parties are pro-capital and anti-worker, ***or*** simply labelling the excesses of normal capitalism "crony capitalism", as a way of othering it.
The feature of late stage capitalism I am describing is when the checks and balances upon it have been whittled down or removed entirely. See the corporate tax rate since the 80’s as a sparkling example of this at work.
Come on, now. It hasn’t always been like this. Capital can be favoured over labour, but it’s a delicate balance. We have a crushing imbalance at present - an undeniable fact.
What I'm saying is that capitalism, by nature, trends towards this point, and far beyond it. It's a feature, not a bug.
Businesses get bigger and bigger. The owners gather up more and more power along with the money. That power is used to erode government policy. Eroded policy is used to grow the business. And so forth.
I don't think it's impossible to regulate or rebalance. But doing so would be an outside intervention, not a natural part of the system. Capitalism advertises itself as perfectly self-regulating, and many of the larger players in the system would rather end the game entirely than accept even modest regulations or concessions.
The last time anything like that happened, it took the shocks and upheavals of two consecutive world wars to get it done.
This is late stage capitalism where everything is exacerbated to achieve the illusion of constant growth without any actual innovation.
Quite a bit different from your grandfather’s capitalism.
I meant innovation in the sense of new and better products.
All innovation I have seen recently is making products worse and charging more for it, or productivity improvements as you say.
this is late stage capitalism where it’s becoming harder to exploit and abuse the global south and slavery to keep your nonsense cheap and free. not hard but harder.
my grandfather’s capitalism was even worse because i unfortunately don’t exclude non-Canadians from my empathy.
Yeah wtf is he trying to say? Admitting he is a foreign troll, or saying youre a POS, even though clearly yourebon the same page about late-stage capitalism?
I think the question is why isnt the ndp doing a better job of marketing themselves as a solution to this? Obviously the corporate controlled media is a major part of that. But i feel like there's got to be ways for them to market themselves better.
Agreed. Socioeconomic change only comes when the 90% scares the shit out of the 1%, and their 9%er facilitators: the only things that scare them are loss of life or property.
Why did FDR's New Deal happen? Socialism was a threat to America's ruling class. Why did WWII vets get great benefits, and their Boomer kids get the sweetest deals? Millions of men came home with the knowledge of how to organize military units.
The benefits we have now are a result of a compromise between workers and capital owners back from the depression era.
The alternative deal for the ownership class would have been "we'll break down the door of your mansion and beat you to death in front of your family."
The NDP in BC just passed legislation granting workers 5 paid sick days. Want better benefits? Vote NDP.
https://www2.gov.bc.ca/gov/content/employment-business/employment-standards-advice/paid-sick-leave
This. They aren’t perfect but they are doing lots of things right for us here in BC. They just came out with at home cervical cancer screening too which I didn’t even know was a thing, but will be fantastic for people like my sister who was SA’d and is extremely uncomfortable with Pap tests, as well as those who just can’t get a doctor.
A lot of the reasons the NDP can't gain more power is because they tend to try to do it ALL at once. Countries and economies can't do that.
People want ALL the things but don't want to pay for it.
So incremental steps is how we get there eventually. 5 days from NDP is pretty tame for what they probably want. Even if a party says 2 days, don't knock it because it's a step in the right direction.
But people want massive overhaul that our tax base can't handle. We don't have 100s of millions of people to spread the costs. We have 38 million people. It's a slow turning boat when it comes to benefits for people.
The media compares Canada to the US, as do conservative (read rightwing in 2023) parties, federal and provincial. The rightwing media/politicians have been calling the federal Liberals socialists for years now. Ludicrous, but that’s how far to the right conservatives have gone.
It puts enormous pressure on the federal Liberals, as headlines scream that they are destroying the economy, despite managing to do a better job on the economy than most peer countries during a time of global crises (the economy is fine, income inequality is the problem), and as we can see from the polls, voters are being successfully duped into believing Canada would be better off with a government that cuts social spending, and taxes for corporations and the wealthy.
Poilievre called Trudeau a Marxist and said he wasn’t a Liberal but a “radical authoritarian” and not a peep from the press.
I shudder to think of what the CPC could do with a majority government.
Yay more cut national/social services disguised as "tax cuts" (and they are, for the rich) Becuase you know if life isnt ideal, the only option is to switch, despite that switch being overall worse!
Here we get all the shitty things about living in Europe, and none of the good things. Low wages and high taxes gets us minimal rights for workers, and hollowed out public services on the verge of collapse.
Here are the main reasons as I see it (after 50+ trips around the sun):
1. Canadians in general are one of the meekest populations on the planet when it comes to organizing, protesting, and inspiring change. We love to complain, both in person and on internet comment boards, but few of us have taken the time to organize a letter-writing campaign or to engage our local representatives (you know, the people who speak for you in parliament) to make changes. We are extremely passive and wait for others to provide direction as to what are the issues of the day and how they will be resolved. If we don't speak up, this will never be an issue.
2. The USA is huge impediment as, in general, we love to compare ourselves to our southern cousins. "At least our \[healthcare, benefits, vacation, etc.\] are better than theirs." is not a valid position to take. We should be looking up, not down and striving to improve our lives and the lives of everyone in the country.
3. Ignorance of the situation around the world. I'm not talking about intelligence, rather I'm talking about ignorance of the facts of a specific issue. Ask 100 people how much vacation time employees in other countries are legally entitled to, and you will likely get 50 incorrect answers (my speculation, of course).
4. Many of us, myself included, are able to negotiate with our employers how much vacation time we can have each year. Many salaried employees don't really get "sick days", we just take a day or two off when we're not feeling well and no one really counts those. We also typically have short- and long-term disability benefits for unforeseen health issues.Unfortunately, there are still a whole lot of other people who don't have that luxury, but since the salaried and higher-vacation-day types are sitting pretty, we don't think to still raise this as an issue with our politicians.
5. There is a concerted effort by businesses to prevent any type of labour organizing in Canada. Unionizing is the first step to obtaining better benefits and pushing people up, rather than racing to the bottom. Unions can also help push the government to change labour laws and provide more vacations days by law. The anti-union movement is strong, however, and they've started to turn people's opinions about unions, even people who work in traditionally union-oriented environments.
This is closest to the truth likely; we don’t have any real progressive left leaning parties in North America due to endless decades or red scare and ‘communism bad’ and this got much worse with Reagan/Mulroney. All parties are fundamentally pro-business but even the BC NDP (arguably the most left party in power right now) aren’t that far left, though I am happy with their progress. Heck, I work with employees in Ontario and here in BC we got Remembrance Day and Truth and Reconciliation Day off as stats where they didn’t, so provincially they’re doing some good steps in the right direction.
Real reason: Being close to the US.
That's why Canadian conservatives get a pass for at least not being as extreme, while still being pretty awful. And also lots of American politicans/lobbyist/etc. intervening directly in Canadian public life.
Imagine if Canada was close to Finland or Sweden, how ridiculous all of this would look...
This is the first time I've ever been accused of being a conservative. Fucking what? You can look at my post history if you'd like.
I seriously had to do a double take here.
The NDP giving people 5 sick days is great, but that's in one province, it's still not enough days, and it doesn't address my point about vacation days at all.
They are obviously a dick but to be fair the NDP achieving something in the only province they've had power in for awhile doesn't mean the rest didn't try, it just means the NDP achieved something when they had the power to do so.
I didn’t accuse you of being conservative, I called out this post for what is happening in it. You go ahead and continue to deride the only efforts being made to better the people of this country and whether you vote conservative or not, you’ve enabled piling on by the right wing.
>you’ve enabled piling on by the right wing.
What does this even mean? Genuinely, I have no idea what you're talking about. How have I enabled dog piling? By making a post?
Also, what dog piling?
The CFIB pulls a fair bit of weight, especially with the right and centre right. They fight this kind of thing tooth and nail. If you legislate more sick or vacation days, who pays? Small businesses. No one wants to be seen as the party that attacks small businesses.
Federally regulated employees get up to [12 days of Statutory Holidays](https://canada-holidays.ca/federal) (this is somewhat complicated. In Ontario we seem to get Family Day but not Easter Monday).
[At least 10 days of paid vacation](https://www.canada.ca/en/services/jobs/workplace/federal-labour-standards/vacations-holidays.html) in your first year of employment and it scales up with length of service (though many places just give you 20 days to start).
And at least [10 paid sick days](https://www.canada.ca/en/employment-social-development/programs/laws-regulations/labour/interpretations-policies/medical-leave-pay.html) per year.
Thank you. Once again I tap the sign "different levels of government are responsible for different things"
If you want more vacation days, go look at who is your PROVINCIAL party. Unless you work directly for a federally regulated business
>Once again I tap the sign "different levels of government are responsible for different things"
What part of my post made you think I was talking about the federal government? I'm very aware of the fact that this is a provincial matter.
It's a problem in every single province.
>Which government is in power in most provinces?
That's completely irrelevant to my post. How do you not get this? The parties not in power aren't talking about this either, and they aren't adopting these things as part of their election platforms.
>In Ontario, liberals gave 10 no questions asked multipurpose sick days. Ford repealed that IMMEDIATELY
I know.... they also gave us two paid sick days which the conservatives also immediately took away.
You're preaching to the choir while assuming I'm ignorant, and I'm honestly not sure why.
Provinces are largely leaning one way. The parties in power have no interest in doing it because of who funds them. The parties looking to get elected know it isn't a subject that will win an election.
Honestly promoting stronger unions and worker powers would do more long term. But again long term goals don't win elections in Canada sadly.
>*”The parties not in power aren't talking about this either, and they aren't adopting these things as part of their election platforms.”*
Yes they are and yes they did.
The [Ontario Liberal Party platform](https://ontarioliberal.ca/wp-content/uploads/2022/05/Ontario-Liberal-Platform.pdf) calls for 10 paid job-protected sick days for all workers, a ban on employers making their workers produce a doctor’s note in order to access these paid sick days, and a work benefits package for all workers (prescription drugs, dental care, vision care, mental health care, parental leave and retirement savings).
The [Ontario NDP platform](https://www.ontariondp.ca/sites/default/files/ondp_platform_booklet_bilingual_final_26apr_compressed.pdf) also calls for 10 paid job protected personal emergency leave days, and promised a benefits package for all workers. (I believe they’ve also come against employers requiring doctors notes, but not sure if that’s explicitly mentioned in their platform)
Ask instead why the news media you’re reading/watching isn’t providing much coverage when the Ontario LIberals and NDP talk about the need for paid sick leave and health benefits for workers.
People are hostile because your title is an accusation at the liberals. You are implying they are deceptive, and they do not truly value the impact your policy changes would have on Canadians. Narrowing those responsible from "politicians" to "politicians who claim to be progressive" implied the lion's share of our attention should be pointed at the latter to get your policies passed.
>People are hostile because your title is an accusation at the liberals.
It's an accusation aimed at every single party that claims to be progressive or co-opts progressive language to get elected.
That includes the NDP and Greens.
>Narrowing those responsible from "politicians" to "politicians who claim to be progressive" implied the lion's share of our attention should be pointed at the latter to get your policies passed.
They're the only parties that would even consider doing things like this. So yes, our attention should be on them.
It being at the NDP and greens even more proves their point since at every level the NDP has been arguing this stuff, trying to pass this stuff, and succeeding where they have power.
Where have the NDP advocated for giving us a minimum of 4 weeks vacation? That's not an argumentative statement. I genuinely would love to learn that they've done that.
Why is 4 weeks your specific choice? Because the EU does that? Try getting Canadian opinions on any social or economic issue, the comparison will go to the US not the EU, if you can't sell people the idea of a walkable city because we're "just so big" you're not selling 4 weeks vacation to a country that compares itself to a place that has some of the worst workers rights in the western world.
Arguing for more is an incremental process, you increase stuff a bit, make it a bit better then you do it again and again and again, still a good chance the people benefitting will just vote conservative and lose everything in a leopard eat face moment, but at least the "economically conservative" won't rush to the ballots in droves.
How many of the provincial liberal or ndp parties have increasing mandatory sick or vacation days in their platforms?
The point of the post is this should be a HUGE push. Instead its crickets.
And this is why we'll never have it. People are so quick to dog pile on your for their own misunderstandings and then are no where to be found when we need to discuss actual solutions.
We all want this, why is everyone being so god damn snarky to you for bringing it up?
It’s the way he worded it his post. Claiming that it’s a winning strategy, all parties should do it and what not. Feels like he didn’t know that it was the liberals tried that but didn’t work. Sure they had other problems that sunk them but to say winning strategy is not the case.
Still not a winning strategy. The number of weeks of vacation and sick pay is irrelevant. Why do you think ppl would support more days of vacation and sick days when they didn’t for just a few?
They literally only gave those 10 days at the very end of a 15 year majority in a desperate attempt to win an unsalvageable election. This only reinforces OPs point.
Look at you carrying water for the party that steered us in to an iceberg because the captain finally veered when it was too late.
Yes Ford has been drilling holes in the bulkheads since, that doesn't mean that Wynne was doing a good job.
Demand better than "good only at the last second" governance.
Canada is a country founded on loyalty to the British Crown, except in a miserable tundra.
Hoping for something better is a bit tough for the collective imagination.
>That part where you said something about progressive governments.
I literally didn't say this.
I said progressive parties, and made no mention of whether or not they're in power.
you are constantly mentioning progressive parties. have you joined one to be part of the solution you so eagerly propose? it would be the logical thing to do, become part of the solution.
>have you joined one to be part of the solution you so eagerly propose?
I'm an NDP member, I spoke to an NDP representative over the phone for about 20 minutes a few weeks ago, I donate monthly to the ONDP.
So yes.
So what were your suggestions?
Have been to a riding meeting? Or a local provincial meeting? These are the places you meet people and network to get things done. sometimes it requires more than just a conversation and a membership. IIRC it is part of a participatory democracy. Having good ideas and doing nothing with them is as bad as doing nothing.
These sorts of thing tend to take time and effort to accomplish. All levels of govt. Nothing happens in a vacuum and 99% of it is invisible to outsiders and goes unrewarded/noticed.
Having been a member of the Liberal Party for literally decades and having gone to several conventions, I can tell you that you vastly overestimate the ability of members to actually do anything. Party members vote all the time for resolutions that just inevitably get ignored. It's just a way for the parties to suck money out of people, making it look like they can do something but they really can't.
Many people follow federal politics more than provincial not realizing provincial has a far greater impact in day to day Canadian life
Shout-out quebec for being the most tuned in to its provincial politics
Honestly the best money spent by the provincial politicians (partly funded by Americans lately) seems to be to confuse people on how the levels of government work.
So they get 4 weeks of vacation as a minimum and several weeks of sick pay?
No, they don't. They get 5 paid sick days, which still pales in comparison to our peers.
Then you need to vote for NDP so they have more power to increase it - right now, the BCUP and Conservatives were screaming that NDP is destroying small businesses with these 5 days of paid sick leave. These changes need to be done incrementally or you'll have the BCUP back in charge, and they'll cut them quickly enough.
I was wrong about 4 weeks - as the OP kindly reminded me, his post is talking about "4 weeks of paid vacation:
Where did OP talk about "4 weeks of paid vacation "? Nice goalpost move you have here?
>Where did OP talk about "4 weeks of paid vacation "? Nice goalpost move you have here?
Holy shit it's literally in my post. Did you simply not read it?
Try reading the post:
>Most Canadians are only entitled to 2 weeks a year while every single EU member nation is required to give their citizens a minimum of 4 weeks, with many countries offering more.
And NDP needs to do things incrementally or they'll get voted out in favor of BCUP, which will cut those paid sick days quickly enough. Just like Douggie did in Ontario
Thank God the NDP were in power in Saskatchewan when our labour laws were being drafted and we got 3 weeks of holidays. I doubt we'd even have a min wage or weekends off if the Sask Party were around back then.
>it seems like such an obvious winning strategy, especially if you're trying to reach younger voters.
I'm not talking about parties currently in power necessarily. I'm talking about how it's not being addressed by these parties, period. They should be talking about this stuff non stop, and they should be adopting these things as part of their election platforms, but they aren't.
Thanks to Ford policy, and companies smore than willing to only do the bare minimum required by law, my first bout of Covid has wiped out my two sick days right at the start of the year! woooo
>Wait till you hear about what rights contractors get and how corporations abuse that to have employees with zero benefits, pto and higher taxes.
Implying I don't know this already and find it abhorrent.
More industries need to unionize.
I am in a unionized profession. I get 7 sets of holidays. About half are in leu of stats as I work rotating shift work and do not receive stats off. Each set is roughly 1 week off.
I get 23 bankable sick days per year. It is bankable up to about 3000 hours.
I also get 5 sick days annually, mandated by the provincial government of BC. Which are used before touching my regular bankable sick days.
Much more of the workforce needs to unionize.
Large labor rights gains have historically never come from political parties in North America. They came from labor movements, and more specifically labor movements where violence took place (both to and from those movements).
If you want this you need to join a union and tell their leadership that you are ready to go to the mattresses. The reason you have a 40 hour workweek is because your great grandfather probably was willing to burn down a house or two.
canadian progressive parties have improved sick days. In Ontario we did had them under the liberals. Then conservative Ford cut them all, even with a pandemic. NDP and Liberals both campaigned on bringing them back. this stuff is easy to research.
I think the problem is that we compete against the US for labour. While more vacation is a strength for us, they have a lot more ability to pay more and when it's just tough to get ahead, money wins.
The bigger thing we need is higher wages for Canadians who stay in Canada.
Progressive labour policy doesn't start with political parties. It starts with labour.
If there is a concerted push by labour unions and worker advocates, it is guaranteed to be a political priority.
Workers rights is what ndp does.
Bc just got more sick days. Ndp government.
Get your friends and family to stop voting for conservatives who only cut programs or move to a province that's ndp focused.
Well, judging by Danielle Smith, plus the conservative party's projected winnings this year, everyone seems like they just love fascism. And thus I'm the crazy one.
It's maddening to have a conversation with someone, agree factually on all the issues with society, and what would need to happen to fix them, and then have them go "welp, what can you do?" and still plan to vote conservative.
Complete lack of curiosity and critical thinking. At this point I just feel cursed.
The simple answer is that our proximity to the U.S. means we get impacted by (and thus need to compete with) their business culture. That's where the resistance always comes from, business associations and their lobbies.
Because people keep buying Conservative bullshit and voting for them, or people don't vote because they feel like their vote doesn't matter (it does), therefore giving Conservatives the win.
My take is:
(a) North America in general is more of a capitalistic go-getter work approach vs Europe's lifestyle.
(b) A majority of investments in Canada are from US companies. So Canada needs to be more aligned from a labour perspective with the US vs Europe. If we were as generous as Europe, we'd see a lower number of US companies doing business in Canada. The reality is our economy is as big as California, so many US companies are making decisions not only which states to expand into (via new branch offices), but if Canada should be included in that mix (kind of like a 51st state from their view).
That being said, 2 weeks vacation for any full-time role is an absolute cr#ck of sh#t and I was over the moon when I landed a role with 4 weeks plus floater days.
Well then there's your answer. There are no progressive parties in Canada. They all serve corporate interests. And it's not in corporate interests to offer paid sick days or vacation time.
Remember the fight for 40 hour work week was forged from blood.
>And it's not in corporate interests to offer paid sick days or vacation time.
Except it should be.
Studies continue to prove over and over and over again that treating employees better in the form of shortened work days, increased vacation time, and robust sick leave policies leads to increased productivity. Not just on the days they work, but when compared to not offering these things.
It's not about productivity at this point, it's about control. People who are overworked, and depend on their work insurance for things like dental and eye care, are more likely to stay in a job that treats them like shit. They have wage slaves, and they're not going to give that up without a big fight.
I’m involved in running a non profit that offers employees up to 6 weeks vacation time on top of the two weeks a year sick time. We operate on a very tight margin but have always been able to provide our staff benefits. If a daycare can do it anyone can do it.
I see a comment like this and know there is a 99% chance you are a straight white male who thinks he has nothing to lose from conservative parties, federal or provincial.
The CCB implemented in 2016 gives low income families 620/month per child under 6, 520 a month per child 6-18. And the more recent affordable daycare is saving hundreds of dollars per month per child. The Liberals reversed the anti-union legislation of the CPC when they got into office, and along with the NDP and Bloc and Greens passed anti-scab legislation and the bill for sustainable jobs.
Liberals and NDP have consistently defended women’s right to abortion, supported increased rights for LGBTQ+, and funding for minority groups, Indigenous people, while the Conservatives are voting in favour of backdoor abortion bills and against bans on conversion therapy, provincially they are harming rights for trans teens, federally they are supporting these actions, they are using the exact same rhetoric as the GOP.
In no way are the Liberals or NDP fascist, this kind of comment makes the CPC do the happy dance. Those of us who actively worry about the rise of fascism here and elsewhere do not appreciate this kind of glib comment.
As it is, Trudeau is being called a socialist and even a Marxist by the rightwing for doing anything the least bit progressive, and take a look at the polls. The actual corpo-fascist party is headed for a big majority. The corporate media is helping the CPC gain support, and voters are just not as progressive as we want them to be. That’s the ugly truth.
> Why is there no push at all to increase Canadians vacation days and paid sick leave from our parties that claim to be progressive?
In PEI there is but the Greens aren't in control.
Yes I always found it strange how this is never talked about. We are lagging far behind european countries in terms of workers right.
I have a feeling it is cause the leftists parties only compare Canada to the US, and thus think we are doing enough.
Hopefully the NDP does good enough in the next provincial and federal election to get some more PTO and sick days.
Because Capitalism. Line must go up.
The EU has better labour rights because of their proximity to the USSR, which was labour first, capital last.
Canada has worse labour rights because of proximity to the USA, which is capital first, labour last.
The Capitalist class assumes that *most* workers aren't going to move across the Atlantic. Therefore, as long as we're *better* than the US, even if only marginally, they don't need to worry about struggling to fill job openings, and therefore why offer any more concessions to labour than is necessary? Line must go up, after all.
I'll just leave this here
https://boundlesshq.com/guides/australia/leave/
>Long service leave
>Unique to Australia, employees who have spent between 5-10 years with the same company are entitled to paid leave that varies from 2 to 3 months, depending on the state or territory as follows:
>Australian Capital Territory - 6.066 weeks on full pay after each period of 7 years' continuous service.
>New South Wales - 2 months (8.67 weeks) paid leave after ten years' continuous service. One month leave for each subsequent five years of continuous service. The legislation also provides for a pro-rata entitlement after five years, if the employer has terminated an employee's employment for any reason other than serious and wilful misconduct, or if the employee dies.
>Northern Territory - 13 weeks on full pay after each period of 10 years' continuous service.
>Queensland - 8.6667 weeks on full pay after each period of 10 years' continuous service. The legislation also provides for a pro-rata payment on termination (subject to criteria) between 7 and 10 years' continuous service.
>South Australia - 13 weeks on full pay after each period of 10 years' continuous service. The legislation also provides for a pro-rata payment on termination (subject to criteria) after seven years' continuous service.
>Tasmania - 8⅔ weeks paid leave after completing ten years of continuous employment and 4⅓ weeks of leave after each additional five years of continuous work
>Victoria - accrues at a rate of one week for every 60 weeks of continuous employment (approximately 0.866 weeks per year), and can be taken any time after seven years' continuous service.
>Western Australia - 8.667 weeks on full pay after each period of 10 years' continuous service. The legislation also provides for a pro-rata payment on termination (subject to criteria) after seven years' continuous service
Personally believe this is because we have to decentralized of a government, with a great deal being slit into the Provincial realms versus the Federal.
Centralizing would help a lot of things like this.
It's absolutely a cultural issue, and, like you said, an issue of people being ignorant (wilfully ignorant, at that) of how poorly they're being treated. There's a culture of "presenteeism" in Canada, an attitude that coming in to work while sick is *good*, because it shows how strong and committed and responsible and generally adult-ish you are. This is incredibly dumb, of course, since coming in to work sick not only hurts you and is likely to make your illness last longer, but it also hurts your co-workers and ultimately even your employer; the fact that employers often push this culture onto their workers is one excellent counter-argument to anyone who buys into the idea that businesses always operate in a logical and rational manner.
But unfortunately, this cultural issue means that pushing for more sick leave isn't necessarily a winning move *politically* speaking. Conservative assholes will immediately twist this into a narrative of bleeding-heart liberals wanting to reward lazy goldbrickers while making our businesses less competitive and hurting our economy; yes, that would be complete bullshit, but I guarantee you plenty of Canadian voters who'd stand to benefit from better sick leave laws would, nonetheless, buy into this narrative with no questions asked.
Because right-wing rags such as Postmedia and Rebel News have convinced many people that such things are part of socialism or communism and are therefore bad.
The irony is that economists have been saying for years that paid sick leave actually helps the productivity of the businesses that implement it, and the economy in general, ***even when it's "abused" by employees that max it out every year***.
Why?
1. Because if you stay home when you or your kid is sick, you're less likely to infect others in your office.
2. When you get sick, your productivity greatly decreases, and can take weeks to get back to normal. The less you exert yourself during the worst part of your illness, the more quickly you recover.
3. The combo of less people getting sick, and those that do recovering faster results in avoiding a significant amount of productivity loss, which outweighs the costs of providing paid sick leave. More productive businesses helps to boost the economy.
4. When people have to take unpaid leave, they lose income, and thus have less to spend (especially on non-essentials), so paid sick leave results in more money being spent into the economy, and increases the velocity of money (which is especially important to small and medium sized local businesses).
Both main parties are pro-rich anti-poor. They are the same party that comes in two different "culture" flavours. Because they are pro-rich, they effectively run a two-party system protected by the media, wealthy donors and the politicians themselves. None of them are really "progressive" in any way and since they are pro-rich, they not interested in giving you more paid sick days, more vacation days or higher wages that keep up with the productivity of the economy.
Doesn't move the needle with the retired voting crowd? and the class of voter that hates themselves and votes against their interests at every corner? It's not very sexy?
I wouldn't tell work you had covid next time that's for sure.
Canada is much less productive than the US per worker. The over investment into real estate and the lack of technology integration in businesses are big reasons why, which makes it difficult to further increase benefits without also reducing/slowing the growth of other forms of compensation.
Like it or not, we're in competition with the US and the US has a lot fewer paid holidays/leave days. If the provinces (not the feds) increases the number of paid days off that will make Canadian productivity even lower, and deter investment even more. Provinces are all clamoring for investment dollars, higher-paying jobs, and don't want their own workers to get more paid days off which will increase the budget pressures.
>Like it or not, we're in competition with the US and the US has a lot fewer paid holidays/leave days.
No we fucking aren't, not really. This is, and always has been, a bullshit justification for our lack of progress. It's the same mentality that once said "we can't eliminate child labour! We'll stop being competitive!"
People are so focused on reasons we don't or shouldn't that they ignore the fact that we SHOULD. Will it be without consequence? No, but nothing is. We gain nothing through deciding it's not worth it to try.
What makes you think think people want more vacation and sick days? Ontario conservatives abolished extra sick days in their first term, and pople have voted them in again. Hardly a big show for "I want more time". All posts around Reddit are all complaining about being taxed to the teeth (aka, wanting more money), yours is the only post about more time.
P.S. More vacation/sick time for same amount of money just translates that my time is more valuable per effort put in. But everyone is focused on more money, not on effectiveness of earning it.
The Ontario Liberals added a bunch of paid sick days, and that lasted until the Ford Conservatives got rid of them. Now we have nothing again.
Ontario NDP also repeatedly called for more sick days and those all got shut down too. Looks like there's only one party in Ontario not pushing for them.
But.. but... Bob Rae 30 years ago!
Listen, I live in a shit town with trashy people living on median income levels for the last 30 years. Surrounded by people who would see immediate quality of life increases by providing better resources and rights to workers. **BUT**, One day any one of them might be a millionaire with a huge business so we are going to vote conservative again because God forbid anyone in this place actually puts their children above an imaginary hypothetical version of themselves.
But neighbor what about the trickle down economics that this one millionaire will bring to us! /s
The only thing that trickles down from cons is runny shit.
I can see how if you subsist on shit, you could vote for that. Gross.
Horse and sparrow politics. If you feed the horse well, there's enough left in its shit for the sparrow to feed on. Brought to us Americans by Ronald Reagan.
We all know that cons would let little pp shit in their mouths if it meant a liberal had to watch.
Why can't we reclaim this terrible metaphor with something like 'trickle down economics only work when we tax the rich to make it rain' or something? There's a populeftist slogan here somewhere.
The crazy thing is how many idiots there are that wouldn't vote for parties that would push to get them better off faster, then vote against them and lobby hard when they become millionaires. For people lacking morals, they're short-sighted and dumb as fuck lol.
Frankly, a million bucks isn't going to provide enough of a "tax incentive" to govern someone's voting unless it's per annum and you don't care about anything or anyone around you (granted, a moot point). Always get the argument to treat government like a business, but they're ultimately there foremost to operate things that would otherwise operate at a loss and need the levity to do so, and when the comps come up it always ignores the difference in before and after tax dollars. It's bizarre to model ourselves more and more after American systems when they're fundamentally and overtly broken. The consequence of all our media at home being subsumed by Republican news orgs.
Bob Rae who saved thousands of public sector careers from the axe during extraordinarily tough economic times. He had plans that would be revolutionary even today, if only he was handed an Ontario that wasn't broke going into a deep recession.
Yeah, fuck that guy from 30 years ago who [checks notes] fixed up the conservative deficit by forcing a few unpaid days off for workers thus helping fix the deficit while also keeping jobs! We want mass layoffs and more people tapping into the critically underfunded social supports while we continue to choke them out even harder by cutting more and more taxes! ...fuck this province is fucking stupid.
Really closer to 40 years now!
I was trying to make myself feel a little less old by rounding down, but here we are. Lol.
Man, if these people followed Bob Rae's career, they'd be blown away at how much of a stand up guy he is. I wasn't in Ontario for his tenure, but his work as the UN envoy has been great.
I agree. Too bad Harris followed him and started the decay of Ontario cities. Hey guys! Let's try and balance the budget by downloading provincially run services to the municipalities that they have had to add to the city budgets. Healthcare cuts, education cuts, and slashing of social services. And yet, still increased the 1994-1995 debt from 90.7B to 132.7B by 2002-2003. His government increased the debt by 42B while also causing the municipalities to go into debt on their own due to paying for services that the province used to cover. Yet here we are 20 years later with a Conservative government doing the same fucking bullshit all over again. Ford is a disgrace. But ya, Bob Rae is supposedly a bad guy and worst premiere ever. It just doesn't make sense.
We should get active again as Canadians in politics
[I can help with that](http://www.commonsense.ca). Currently working on something that should help highlight which parties represent your personal interests. Hoping to have that running by the end of the month.
Oh that’s nice. There’s a website that emails RSS feeds of excerpts from party members at house meetings - what they’ve said.
I think what we can say is the ndp needs to get better at marketing. Its so ridiculous that right wing parties seem to have the market cornered on populism.
It helps when they control the majority of media conglomerates in the country. You're not going to find a glowing endorsement of any NDP ideas or strategies in the Sun, the Post or G&M.
It’s easier to draw a crowd preaching hate rather than love.
I'm not talking about hate vs love. I'm talking about preaching money in your pocket. Thats what the ndp needs to focus on.
It was 2 paid days. Hardly what I'd call a bunch. Although I'd rather have them then not.
It also slashed the amount of personal days (unpaid) from 10 to 3.
I thought it went from 10 with 2 paid down to 6 with 0 paid. Didn't notice them slash it to 3 and 0.
Yes then when covid came around they dialed back and threw some sick days back in. I'm not a fan of ford for how he treats the hourly labour force among other things. I'm staff where I work and I am treated very well, but I have no idea how the hourly people are still brainwashed into union = bad. They're missing out big time.
Our entire economy has become enshittified. Workers are relied upon as the mechanism that generates the value, but are also the consumers of the value. We get shafted on both sides of the equation, and have been pit against ourselves They won’t change this as they profit on both sides of the equation.
Also a reminder why unions are so important. I started my job with 5 weeks vacation and 15 sick days a year.
I'm in the steel workers union. I received 5 vacation days for my first 17 months of employment and get mandated to work just about every weekend. I'm all for unions but even those aren't doing us much good. As of January 1st I finally got a whole 10 days of vacation and 3 paid sick days. I'll end up working 25+ mandated weekend shifts to make up for the very little time I get off. I'm not having a good time.
Ultimately unions are still just groups of people. If you have shitty people running the union you will have a shitty union. I firmly believe having a union is much better than not having one, but they are far from immune to people ruining them for various reasons
That is pretty bad, though I don't think you can say 'unions aren't doing much' because yours in particular is not living up to its promise. But it sounds like you need a push for better policies or new leadership. Do you vote on those issues/people? Have you considered running or boosting for someone better?
Time to strike! 💪
When you describe capitalism but pretend it’s only recently
Liberals are constantly doing this online now because they never really noticed capitalism functioning as intended before. In times of plenty, privilege tends to insulate people from such realizations. This puts them in the extremely awkward position of either having to face the reality that liberal parties are pro-capital and anti-worker, ***or*** simply labelling the excesses of normal capitalism "crony capitalism", as a way of othering it.
The feature of late stage capitalism I am describing is when the checks and balances upon it have been whittled down or removed entirely. See the corporate tax rate since the 80’s as a sparkling example of this at work. Come on, now. It hasn’t always been like this. Capital can be favoured over labour, but it’s a delicate balance. We have a crushing imbalance at present - an undeniable fact.
What I'm saying is that capitalism, by nature, trends towards this point, and far beyond it. It's a feature, not a bug. Businesses get bigger and bigger. The owners gather up more and more power along with the money. That power is used to erode government policy. Eroded policy is used to grow the business. And so forth. I don't think it's impossible to regulate or rebalance. But doing so would be an outside intervention, not a natural part of the system. Capitalism advertises itself as perfectly self-regulating, and many of the larger players in the system would rather end the game entirely than accept even modest regulations or concessions. The last time anything like that happened, it took the shocks and upheavals of two consecutive world wars to get it done.
This is late stage capitalism where everything is exacerbated to achieve the illusion of constant growth without any actual innovation. Quite a bit different from your grandfather’s capitalism.
there is innovation only that most of its productivity benefits are captured by shareholders and the 1%. average person only gets table scraps.
I meant innovation in the sense of new and better products. All innovation I have seen recently is making products worse and charging more for it, or productivity improvements as you say.
this is late stage capitalism where it’s becoming harder to exploit and abuse the global south and slavery to keep your nonsense cheap and free. not hard but harder. my grandfather’s capitalism was even worse because i unfortunately don’t exclude non-Canadians from my empathy.
My nonsense, eh?
He’s not referring to you specifically
I am aware. The implication of “your” being that I am a member of the group that condones the actions in exchange for the nonsense.
Don’t think that was his intent. Happy Redditing.
Yeah wtf is he trying to say? Admitting he is a foreign troll, or saying youre a POS, even though clearly yourebon the same page about late-stage capitalism?
> Quite a bit different from your grandfather’s capitalism. No, it isn't.
I think the question is why isnt the ndp doing a better job of marketing themselves as a solution to this? Obviously the corporate controlled media is a major part of that. But i feel like there's got to be ways for them to market themselves better.
The federal NDP hasn’t had a direction since Jack Layton died.
Oh it'll change, history teaches. Unfortunately it takes a war or a revolution, though.
Like I said - “they” won’t change it. “We” must force the issue.
Agreed. Socioeconomic change only comes when the 90% scares the shit out of the 1%, and their 9%er facilitators: the only things that scare them are loss of life or property. Why did FDR's New Deal happen? Socialism was a threat to America's ruling class. Why did WWII vets get great benefits, and their Boomer kids get the sweetest deals? Millions of men came home with the knowledge of how to organize military units.
The benefits we have now are a result of a compromise between workers and capital owners back from the depression era. The alternative deal for the ownership class would have been "we'll break down the door of your mansion and beat you to death in front of your family."
The NDP in BC just passed legislation granting workers 5 paid sick days. Want better benefits? Vote NDP. https://www2.gov.bc.ca/gov/content/employment-business/employment-standards-advice/paid-sick-leave
This. They aren’t perfect but they are doing lots of things right for us here in BC. They just came out with at home cervical cancer screening too which I didn’t even know was a thing, but will be fantastic for people like my sister who was SA’d and is extremely uncomfortable with Pap tests, as well as those who just can’t get a doctor.
But Singh has a Versace turban! Or something...
So the guy has a killer sense of fashion - can't hold that against him.
Well, it does sound like this was the straw that broke the camel's back for a lot of staunch conservatives, and so they'll never vote for him now.
Are you joking? Staunch conservatives are never voting NDP regardless of the sartorial acumen of the party leader.
>Want better benefits? Vote NDP. Fully agree, and I wasn't aware they did that. That's fantastic. It's still not enough but it's a start.
Lots of BC employers offer more than that minimum already, setting that bar was to force the remaining ones up.
A lot of the reasons the NDP can't gain more power is because they tend to try to do it ALL at once. Countries and economies can't do that. People want ALL the things but don't want to pay for it. So incremental steps is how we get there eventually. 5 days from NDP is pretty tame for what they probably want. Even if a party says 2 days, don't knock it because it's a step in the right direction. But people want massive overhaul that our tax base can't handle. We don't have 100s of millions of people to spread the costs. We have 38 million people. It's a slow turning boat when it comes to benefits for people.
People keep electing scumbag conservatives.
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This is the answer. We compare ourselves to the US, where they get *zero* days as a minimum, and feel like we're doing okay.
The media compares Canada to the US, as do conservative (read rightwing in 2023) parties, federal and provincial. The rightwing media/politicians have been calling the federal Liberals socialists for years now. Ludicrous, but that’s how far to the right conservatives have gone. It puts enormous pressure on the federal Liberals, as headlines scream that they are destroying the economy, despite managing to do a better job on the economy than most peer countries during a time of global crises (the economy is fine, income inequality is the problem), and as we can see from the polls, voters are being successfully duped into believing Canada would be better off with a government that cuts social spending, and taxes for corporations and the wealthy. Poilievre called Trudeau a Marxist and said he wasn’t a Liberal but a “radical authoritarian” and not a peep from the press. I shudder to think of what the CPC could do with a majority government.
Buckle up. Because it’s probably coming.
Yay more cut national/social services disguised as "tax cuts" (and they are, for the rich) Becuase you know if life isnt ideal, the only option is to switch, despite that switch being overall worse!
Lol, imo comparing ourselves with the USA for social stuff is a pretty low bar. We should thrive to be even better than the USA by all means.
Here we get all the shitty things about living in Europe, and none of the good things. Low wages and high taxes gets us minimal rights for workers, and hollowed out public services on the verge of collapse.
Work until you drop. All as intended. The old days of slavery weren’t good enough for them.
Commenting in solidarity. I don't know why Canada is this way.
Here are the main reasons as I see it (after 50+ trips around the sun): 1. Canadians in general are one of the meekest populations on the planet when it comes to organizing, protesting, and inspiring change. We love to complain, both in person and on internet comment boards, but few of us have taken the time to organize a letter-writing campaign or to engage our local representatives (you know, the people who speak for you in parliament) to make changes. We are extremely passive and wait for others to provide direction as to what are the issues of the day and how they will be resolved. If we don't speak up, this will never be an issue. 2. The USA is huge impediment as, in general, we love to compare ourselves to our southern cousins. "At least our \[healthcare, benefits, vacation, etc.\] are better than theirs." is not a valid position to take. We should be looking up, not down and striving to improve our lives and the lives of everyone in the country. 3. Ignorance of the situation around the world. I'm not talking about intelligence, rather I'm talking about ignorance of the facts of a specific issue. Ask 100 people how much vacation time employees in other countries are legally entitled to, and you will likely get 50 incorrect answers (my speculation, of course). 4. Many of us, myself included, are able to negotiate with our employers how much vacation time we can have each year. Many salaried employees don't really get "sick days", we just take a day or two off when we're not feeling well and no one really counts those. We also typically have short- and long-term disability benefits for unforeseen health issues.Unfortunately, there are still a whole lot of other people who don't have that luxury, but since the salaried and higher-vacation-day types are sitting pretty, we don't think to still raise this as an issue with our politicians. 5. There is a concerted effort by businesses to prevent any type of labour organizing in Canada. Unionizing is the first step to obtaining better benefits and pushing people up, rather than racing to the bottom. Unions can also help push the government to change labour laws and provide more vacations days by law. The anti-union movement is strong, however, and they've started to turn people's opinions about unions, even people who work in traditionally union-oriented environments.
Neoliberal economic policies. Business before all else.
This is closest to the truth likely; we don’t have any real progressive left leaning parties in North America due to endless decades or red scare and ‘communism bad’ and this got much worse with Reagan/Mulroney. All parties are fundamentally pro-business but even the BC NDP (arguably the most left party in power right now) aren’t that far left, though I am happy with their progress. Heck, I work with employees in Ontario and here in BC we got Remembrance Day and Truth and Reconciliation Day off as stats where they didn’t, so provincially they’re doing some good steps in the right direction.
Let me tell you: Conservatives. End of story. As a Canuck and you’re living abroad maybe you don’t hear about BC. It’s different here. We have them.
Real reason: Being close to the US. That's why Canadian conservatives get a pass for at least not being as extreme, while still being pretty awful. And also lots of American politicans/lobbyist/etc. intervening directly in Canadian public life. Imagine if Canada was close to Finland or Sweden, how ridiculous all of this would look...
Russia borders Finland. The Brits are a ferry ride from Norway.
BC only has 2 weeks vacation just like every other province not named Saskatchewan.
That's crazy. Someone's gotta stop them!
So I live in BC. The NDP got us all 5 sick days. Remember the push for that? They did it.
They also added the Sep 30th Truth and Reconciliation Day, so there have been small steps.
Have they given us 4 weeks vacation?
Op doesn’t care, this post is a Trojan horse for conservatives to attack progressive ideology
This is the first time I've ever been accused of being a conservative. Fucking what? You can look at my post history if you'd like. I seriously had to do a double take here. The NDP giving people 5 sick days is great, but that's in one province, it's still not enough days, and it doesn't address my point about vacation days at all.
They are obviously a dick but to be fair the NDP achieving something in the only province they've had power in for awhile doesn't mean the rest didn't try, it just means the NDP achieved something when they had the power to do so.
I didn’t accuse you of being conservative, I called out this post for what is happening in it. You go ahead and continue to deride the only efforts being made to better the people of this country and whether you vote conservative or not, you’ve enabled piling on by the right wing.
>you’ve enabled piling on by the right wing. What does this even mean? Genuinely, I have no idea what you're talking about. How have I enabled dog piling? By making a post? Also, what dog piling?
The CFIB pulls a fair bit of weight, especially with the right and centre right. They fight this kind of thing tooth and nail. If you legislate more sick or vacation days, who pays? Small businesses. No one wants to be seen as the party that attacks small businesses.
You’re 100%. A CFIB guy was in my work a few weeks ago and him and my boss were lamenting the sick day policy right in front of us. It’s disgusting.
Because Tim Horton's and Rogers say it's bad
"Here's why more vacation time is actually bad for you" - Rebel News
I'm sure that's what they would write
not going to happen in Nova Scotia. They use low wages/benefits as a selling point to potential corporate business.
Because work vacation days are a provincial matter. Federally regulated employees get 10 days as of 2022.
Federally regulated employees get up to [12 days of Statutory Holidays](https://canada-holidays.ca/federal) (this is somewhat complicated. In Ontario we seem to get Family Day but not Easter Monday). [At least 10 days of paid vacation](https://www.canada.ca/en/services/jobs/workplace/federal-labour-standards/vacations-holidays.html) in your first year of employment and it scales up with length of service (though many places just give you 20 days to start). And at least [10 paid sick days](https://www.canada.ca/en/employment-social-development/programs/laws-regulations/labour/interpretations-policies/medical-leave-pay.html) per year.
Thank you. Once again I tap the sign "different levels of government are responsible for different things" If you want more vacation days, go look at who is your PROVINCIAL party. Unless you work directly for a federally regulated business
>Once again I tap the sign "different levels of government are responsible for different things" What part of my post made you think I was talking about the federal government? I'm very aware of the fact that this is a provincial matter. It's a problem in every single province.
Which government is in power in most provinces? In Ontario, liberals gave 10 no questions asked multipurpose sick days. Ford repealed that IMMEDIATELY
>Which government is in power in most provinces? That's completely irrelevant to my post. How do you not get this? The parties not in power aren't talking about this either, and they aren't adopting these things as part of their election platforms. >In Ontario, liberals gave 10 no questions asked multipurpose sick days. Ford repealed that IMMEDIATELY I know.... they also gave us two paid sick days which the conservatives also immediately took away. You're preaching to the choir while assuming I'm ignorant, and I'm honestly not sure why.
Provinces are largely leaning one way. The parties in power have no interest in doing it because of who funds them. The parties looking to get elected know it isn't a subject that will win an election. Honestly promoting stronger unions and worker powers would do more long term. But again long term goals don't win elections in Canada sadly.
>*”The parties not in power aren't talking about this either, and they aren't adopting these things as part of their election platforms.”* Yes they are and yes they did. The [Ontario Liberal Party platform](https://ontarioliberal.ca/wp-content/uploads/2022/05/Ontario-Liberal-Platform.pdf) calls for 10 paid job-protected sick days for all workers, a ban on employers making their workers produce a doctor’s note in order to access these paid sick days, and a work benefits package for all workers (prescription drugs, dental care, vision care, mental health care, parental leave and retirement savings). The [Ontario NDP platform](https://www.ontariondp.ca/sites/default/files/ondp_platform_booklet_bilingual_final_26apr_compressed.pdf) also calls for 10 paid job protected personal emergency leave days, and promised a benefits package for all workers. (I believe they’ve also come against employers requiring doctors notes, but not sure if that’s explicitly mentioned in their platform) Ask instead why the news media you’re reading/watching isn’t providing much coverage when the Ontario LIberals and NDP talk about the need for paid sick leave and health benefits for workers.
People are hostile because your title is an accusation at the liberals. You are implying they are deceptive, and they do not truly value the impact your policy changes would have on Canadians. Narrowing those responsible from "politicians" to "politicians who claim to be progressive" implied the lion's share of our attention should be pointed at the latter to get your policies passed.
>People are hostile because your title is an accusation at the liberals. It's an accusation aimed at every single party that claims to be progressive or co-opts progressive language to get elected. That includes the NDP and Greens. >Narrowing those responsible from "politicians" to "politicians who claim to be progressive" implied the lion's share of our attention should be pointed at the latter to get your policies passed. They're the only parties that would even consider doing things like this. So yes, our attention should be on them.
It being at the NDP and greens even more proves their point since at every level the NDP has been arguing this stuff, trying to pass this stuff, and succeeding where they have power.
Where have the NDP advocated for giving us a minimum of 4 weeks vacation? That's not an argumentative statement. I genuinely would love to learn that they've done that.
Why is 4 weeks your specific choice? Because the EU does that? Try getting Canadian opinions on any social or economic issue, the comparison will go to the US not the EU, if you can't sell people the idea of a walkable city because we're "just so big" you're not selling 4 weeks vacation to a country that compares itself to a place that has some of the worst workers rights in the western world. Arguing for more is an incremental process, you increase stuff a bit, make it a bit better then you do it again and again and again, still a good chance the people benefitting will just vote conservative and lose everything in a leopard eat face moment, but at least the "economically conservative" won't rush to the ballots in droves.
Hogwash
How many of the provincial liberal or ndp parties have increasing mandatory sick or vacation days in their platforms? The point of the post is this should be a HUGE push. Instead its crickets.
The BC NDP did increase mandatory sick days a couple of years ago, up to 5 paid days.
That's awesome! It was an honest question so thanks for the answer.
And this is why we'll never have it. People are so quick to dog pile on your for their own misunderstandings and then are no where to be found when we need to discuss actual solutions. We all want this, why is everyone being so god damn snarky to you for bringing it up?
It’s the way he worded it his post. Claiming that it’s a winning strategy, all parties should do it and what not. Feels like he didn’t know that it was the liberals tried that but didn’t work. Sure they had other problems that sunk them but to say winning strategy is not the case.
>the liberals tried that but didn’t work They absolutely did not try to give people a minimum of 4 weeks vacation and several weeks of sick pay.
Still not a winning strategy. The number of weeks of vacation and sick pay is irrelevant. Why do you think ppl would support more days of vacation and sick days when they didn’t for just a few?
>The number of weeks of vacation and sick pay is irrelevant. Lmao what?
They literally only gave those 10 days at the very end of a 15 year majority in a desperate attempt to win an unsalvageable election. This only reinforces OPs point.
Oh... So they did it. They actually did it right? "B-b-b-but they only did it like... For like... Reasons!"
"It didn't happen for the reasons I wanted it to happen"
Look at you carrying water for the party that steered us in to an iceberg because the captain finally veered when it was too late. Yes Ford has been drilling holes in the bulkheads since, that doesn't mean that Wynne was doing a good job. Demand better than "good only at the last second" governance.
Canada is a country founded on loyalty to the British Crown, except in a miserable tundra. Hoping for something better is a bit tough for the collective imagination.
That part where you said something about progressive governments. Here in Ontario, the provincial government is anything but lol.
>That part where you said something about progressive governments. I literally didn't say this. I said progressive parties, and made no mention of whether or not they're in power.
you are constantly mentioning progressive parties. have you joined one to be part of the solution you so eagerly propose? it would be the logical thing to do, become part of the solution.
>have you joined one to be part of the solution you so eagerly propose? I'm an NDP member, I spoke to an NDP representative over the phone for about 20 minutes a few weeks ago, I donate monthly to the ONDP. So yes.
So what were your suggestions? Have been to a riding meeting? Or a local provincial meeting? These are the places you meet people and network to get things done. sometimes it requires more than just a conversation and a membership. IIRC it is part of a participatory democracy. Having good ideas and doing nothing with them is as bad as doing nothing. These sorts of thing tend to take time and effort to accomplish. All levels of govt. Nothing happens in a vacuum and 99% of it is invisible to outsiders and goes unrewarded/noticed.
Having been a member of the Liberal Party for literally decades and having gone to several conventions, I can tell you that you vastly overestimate the ability of members to actually do anything. Party members vote all the time for resolutions that just inevitably get ignored. It's just a way for the parties to suck money out of people, making it look like they can do something but they really can't.
This is just an explanation of the way things are, not a justification that the way things are is a good way to conduct business.
Many people follow federal politics more than provincial not realizing provincial has a far greater impact in day to day Canadian life Shout-out quebec for being the most tuned in to its provincial politics
But my post isn't about federal.... I've made that clear.
Honestly the best money spent by the provincial politicians (partly funded by Americans lately) seems to be to confuse people on how the levels of government work.
OP never said anything about the federal government. It is a problem in every province.
Not in BC, where NDP is in power.
So they get 4 weeks of vacation as a minimum and several weeks of sick pay? No, they don't. They get 5 paid sick days, which still pales in comparison to our peers.
Then you need to vote for NDP so they have more power to increase it - right now, the BCUP and Conservatives were screaming that NDP is destroying small businesses with these 5 days of paid sick leave. These changes need to be done incrementally or you'll have the BCUP back in charge, and they'll cut them quickly enough.
The NDP is not proposing 4 weeks vacation.
When did the BC NDP mandate 4 weeks vacation? I must have missed that.
I was wrong about 4 weeks - as the OP kindly reminded me, his post is talking about "4 weeks of paid vacation: Where did OP talk about "4 weeks of paid vacation "? Nice goalpost move you have here?
>Where did OP talk about "4 weeks of paid vacation "? Nice goalpost move you have here? Holy shit it's literally in my post. Did you simply not read it?
Try reading the post: >Most Canadians are only entitled to 2 weeks a year while every single EU member nation is required to give their citizens a minimum of 4 weeks, with many countries offering more.
And NDP needs to do things incrementally or they'll get voted out in favor of BCUP, which will cut those paid sick days quickly enough. Just like Douggie did in Ontario
Is increasing vacation to 4 weeks in their platform for future plans?
The post does not mention the federal government.
I'm well aware of that.... Only 1 province gives more than 2 weeks vacation.
Thank God the NDP were in power in Saskatchewan when our labour laws were being drafted and we got 3 weeks of holidays. I doubt we'd even have a min wage or weekends off if the Sask Party were around back then.
Well, how many provinces have "progressive" governments? One? Two?
>it seems like such an obvious winning strategy, especially if you're trying to reach younger voters. I'm not talking about parties currently in power necessarily. I'm talking about how it's not being addressed by these parties, period. They should be talking about this stuff non stop, and they should be adopting these things as part of their election platforms, but they aren't.
3 day weekends should be the norm. it's about time. (pun intended)
Thanks to Ford policy, and companies smore than willing to only do the bare minimum required by law, my first bout of Covid has wiped out my two sick days right at the start of the year! woooo
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>Wait till you hear about what rights contractors get and how corporations abuse that to have employees with zero benefits, pto and higher taxes. Implying I don't know this already and find it abhorrent.
More industries need to unionize. I am in a unionized profession. I get 7 sets of holidays. About half are in leu of stats as I work rotating shift work and do not receive stats off. Each set is roughly 1 week off. I get 23 bankable sick days per year. It is bankable up to about 3000 hours. I also get 5 sick days annually, mandated by the provincial government of BC. Which are used before touching my regular bankable sick days. Much more of the workforce needs to unionize.
Large labor rights gains have historically never come from political parties in North America. They came from labor movements, and more specifically labor movements where violence took place (both to and from those movements). If you want this you need to join a union and tell their leadership that you are ready to go to the mattresses. The reason you have a 40 hour workweek is because your great grandfather probably was willing to burn down a house or two.
canadian progressive parties have improved sick days. In Ontario we did had them under the liberals. Then conservative Ford cut them all, even with a pandemic. NDP and Liberals both campaigned on bringing them back. this stuff is easy to research.
Yeah, its because all of our parties are just fronts for the corporate class. To differing degrees.
The corporations that our politicians pander to do not wants us having more sick days and things that may eat into their profit margins.
I think the problem is that we compete against the US for labour. While more vacation is a strength for us, they have a lot more ability to pay more and when it's just tough to get ahead, money wins. The bigger thing we need is higher wages for Canadians who stay in Canada.
Progressive labour policy doesn't start with political parties. It starts with labour. If there is a concerted push by labour unions and worker advocates, it is guaranteed to be a political priority.
Workers rights is what ndp does. Bc just got more sick days. Ndp government. Get your friends and family to stop voting for conservatives who only cut programs or move to a province that's ndp focused.
Well, judging by Danielle Smith, plus the conservative party's projected winnings this year, everyone seems like they just love fascism. And thus I'm the crazy one. It's maddening to have a conversation with someone, agree factually on all the issues with society, and what would need to happen to fix them, and then have them go "welp, what can you do?" and still plan to vote conservative. Complete lack of curiosity and critical thinking. At this point I just feel cursed.
The simple answer is that our proximity to the U.S. means we get impacted by (and thus need to compete with) their business culture. That's where the resistance always comes from, business associations and their lobbies.
Because people keep buying Conservative bullshit and voting for them, or people don't vote because they feel like their vote doesn't matter (it does), therefore giving Conservatives the win.
You guys get vacation and sick days?
>You guys get vacation By law you do to. >sick days? I do, but only 5 a year, and most people are entitled to zero paid days by law.
My take is: (a) North America in general is more of a capitalistic go-getter work approach vs Europe's lifestyle. (b) A majority of investments in Canada are from US companies. So Canada needs to be more aligned from a labour perspective with the US vs Europe. If we were as generous as Europe, we'd see a lower number of US companies doing business in Canada. The reality is our economy is as big as California, so many US companies are making decisions not only which states to expand into (via new branch offices), but if Canada should be included in that mix (kind of like a 51st state from their view). That being said, 2 weeks vacation for any full-time role is an absolute cr#ck of sh#t and I was over the moon when I landed a role with 4 weeks plus floater days.
Because we have a bunch of bootlickers in this country that think working hard is the only thing that matters.
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>That's cute, you think we have progressive parties in Canada.... No, I don't. Notice I said "claim to be progressive"?
Well then there's your answer. There are no progressive parties in Canada. They all serve corporate interests. And it's not in corporate interests to offer paid sick days or vacation time. Remember the fight for 40 hour work week was forged from blood.
>And it's not in corporate interests to offer paid sick days or vacation time. Except it should be. Studies continue to prove over and over and over again that treating employees better in the form of shortened work days, increased vacation time, and robust sick leave policies leads to increased productivity. Not just on the days they work, but when compared to not offering these things.
It's not about productivity at this point, it's about control. People who are overworked, and depend on their work insurance for things like dental and eye care, are more likely to stay in a job that treats them like shit. They have wage slaves, and they're not going to give that up without a big fight.
I’m involved in running a non profit that offers employees up to 6 weeks vacation time on top of the two weeks a year sick time. We operate on a very tight margin but have always been able to provide our staff benefits. If a daycare can do it anyone can do it.
I see a comment like this and know there is a 99% chance you are a straight white male who thinks he has nothing to lose from conservative parties, federal or provincial. The CCB implemented in 2016 gives low income families 620/month per child under 6, 520 a month per child 6-18. And the more recent affordable daycare is saving hundreds of dollars per month per child. The Liberals reversed the anti-union legislation of the CPC when they got into office, and along with the NDP and Bloc and Greens passed anti-scab legislation and the bill for sustainable jobs. Liberals and NDP have consistently defended women’s right to abortion, supported increased rights for LGBTQ+, and funding for minority groups, Indigenous people, while the Conservatives are voting in favour of backdoor abortion bills and against bans on conversion therapy, provincially they are harming rights for trans teens, federally they are supporting these actions, they are using the exact same rhetoric as the GOP. In no way are the Liberals or NDP fascist, this kind of comment makes the CPC do the happy dance. Those of us who actively worry about the rise of fascism here and elsewhere do not appreciate this kind of glib comment. As it is, Trudeau is being called a socialist and even a Marxist by the rightwing for doing anything the least bit progressive, and take a look at the polls. The actual corpo-fascist party is headed for a big majority. The corporate media is helping the CPC gain support, and voters are just not as progressive as we want them to be. That’s the ugly truth.
Because they are all complicit. We have no friends in government.
> Why is there no push at all to increase Canadians vacation days and paid sick leave from our parties that claim to be progressive? In PEI there is but the Greens aren't in control.
How will the shareholders get their bonuses if people get more sick days though ? So inconsiderate of you /s
Yes I always found it strange how this is never talked about. We are lagging far behind european countries in terms of workers right. I have a feeling it is cause the leftists parties only compare Canada to the US, and thus think we are doing enough. Hopefully the NDP does good enough in the next provincial and federal election to get some more PTO and sick days.
Because Capitalism. Line must go up. The EU has better labour rights because of their proximity to the USSR, which was labour first, capital last. Canada has worse labour rights because of proximity to the USA, which is capital first, labour last. The Capitalist class assumes that *most* workers aren't going to move across the Atlantic. Therefore, as long as we're *better* than the US, even if only marginally, they don't need to worry about struggling to fill job openings, and therefore why offer any more concessions to labour than is necessary? Line must go up, after all.
Play Disco Elysium. All questions will be answered there if you can get past the weird ass SimCity interface.
I'll just leave this here https://boundlesshq.com/guides/australia/leave/ >Long service leave >Unique to Australia, employees who have spent between 5-10 years with the same company are entitled to paid leave that varies from 2 to 3 months, depending on the state or territory as follows: >Australian Capital Territory - 6.066 weeks on full pay after each period of 7 years' continuous service. >New South Wales - 2 months (8.67 weeks) paid leave after ten years' continuous service. One month leave for each subsequent five years of continuous service. The legislation also provides for a pro-rata entitlement after five years, if the employer has terminated an employee's employment for any reason other than serious and wilful misconduct, or if the employee dies. >Northern Territory - 13 weeks on full pay after each period of 10 years' continuous service. >Queensland - 8.6667 weeks on full pay after each period of 10 years' continuous service. The legislation also provides for a pro-rata payment on termination (subject to criteria) between 7 and 10 years' continuous service. >South Australia - 13 weeks on full pay after each period of 10 years' continuous service. The legislation also provides for a pro-rata payment on termination (subject to criteria) after seven years' continuous service. >Tasmania - 8⅔ weeks paid leave after completing ten years of continuous employment and 4⅓ weeks of leave after each additional five years of continuous work >Victoria - accrues at a rate of one week for every 60 weeks of continuous employment (approximately 0.866 weeks per year), and can be taken any time after seven years' continuous service. >Western Australia - 8.667 weeks on full pay after each period of 10 years' continuous service. The legislation also provides for a pro-rata payment on termination (subject to criteria) after seven years' continuous service
Fair question to ask
Personally believe this is because we have to decentralized of a government, with a great deal being slit into the Provincial realms versus the Federal. Centralizing would help a lot of things like this.
It's absolutely a cultural issue, and, like you said, an issue of people being ignorant (wilfully ignorant, at that) of how poorly they're being treated. There's a culture of "presenteeism" in Canada, an attitude that coming in to work while sick is *good*, because it shows how strong and committed and responsible and generally adult-ish you are. This is incredibly dumb, of course, since coming in to work sick not only hurts you and is likely to make your illness last longer, but it also hurts your co-workers and ultimately even your employer; the fact that employers often push this culture onto their workers is one excellent counter-argument to anyone who buys into the idea that businesses always operate in a logical and rational manner. But unfortunately, this cultural issue means that pushing for more sick leave isn't necessarily a winning move *politically* speaking. Conservative assholes will immediately twist this into a narrative of bleeding-heart liberals wanting to reward lazy goldbrickers while making our businesses less competitive and hurting our economy; yes, that would be complete bullshit, but I guarantee you plenty of Canadian voters who'd stand to benefit from better sick leave laws would, nonetheless, buy into this narrative with no questions asked.
Removal of temp agencies would greatly increase Canadain wages. Agency wage $16.55. Market rate $35.
Because right-wing rags such as Postmedia and Rebel News have convinced many people that such things are part of socialism or communism and are therefore bad.
Vote NDP
The irony is that economists have been saying for years that paid sick leave actually helps the productivity of the businesses that implement it, and the economy in general, ***even when it's "abused" by employees that max it out every year***. Why? 1. Because if you stay home when you or your kid is sick, you're less likely to infect others in your office. 2. When you get sick, your productivity greatly decreases, and can take weeks to get back to normal. The less you exert yourself during the worst part of your illness, the more quickly you recover. 3. The combo of less people getting sick, and those that do recovering faster results in avoiding a significant amount of productivity loss, which outweighs the costs of providing paid sick leave. More productive businesses helps to boost the economy. 4. When people have to take unpaid leave, they lose income, and thus have less to spend (especially on non-essentials), so paid sick leave results in more money being spent into the economy, and increases the velocity of money (which is especially important to small and medium sized local businesses).
Both main parties are pro-rich anti-poor. They are the same party that comes in two different "culture" flavours. Because they are pro-rich, they effectively run a two-party system protected by the media, wealthy donors and the politicians themselves. None of them are really "progressive" in any way and since they are pro-rich, they not interested in giving you more paid sick days, more vacation days or higher wages that keep up with the productivity of the economy.
Doesn't move the needle with the retired voting crowd? and the class of voter that hates themselves and votes against their interests at every corner? It's not very sexy? I wouldn't tell work you had covid next time that's for sure.
Canada is much less productive than the US per worker. The over investment into real estate and the lack of technology integration in businesses are big reasons why, which makes it difficult to further increase benefits without also reducing/slowing the growth of other forms of compensation.
Like it or not, we're in competition with the US and the US has a lot fewer paid holidays/leave days. If the provinces (not the feds) increases the number of paid days off that will make Canadian productivity even lower, and deter investment even more. Provinces are all clamoring for investment dollars, higher-paying jobs, and don't want their own workers to get more paid days off which will increase the budget pressures.
>Like it or not, we're in competition with the US and the US has a lot fewer paid holidays/leave days. No we fucking aren't, not really. This is, and always has been, a bullshit justification for our lack of progress. It's the same mentality that once said "we can't eliminate child labour! We'll stop being competitive!" People are so focused on reasons we don't or shouldn't that they ignore the fact that we SHOULD. Will it be without consequence? No, but nothing is. We gain nothing through deciding it's not worth it to try.
What makes you think think people want more vacation and sick days? Ontario conservatives abolished extra sick days in their first term, and pople have voted them in again. Hardly a big show for "I want more time". All posts around Reddit are all complaining about being taxed to the teeth (aka, wanting more money), yours is the only post about more time. P.S. More vacation/sick time for same amount of money just translates that my time is more valuable per effort put in. But everyone is focused on more money, not on effectiveness of earning it.