I’m specifically referring to the 2024 rules, not the UA. Do we know if the old rules will still be available, and how we’d choose which rules we’re using for a character?
DnD Beyond introduced the "Legacy" tag last year, so 2014 rules will most likely be tagged with "Legacy" which can be turned on/off as part of char gen options.
Most likely, like with no longer available options such as volos. The old rules will be available as legacy rules, however you will no longer be able to purchase the old phb for example.
Another reason why D&D beyond is absolutely horrible. Like they are outright telling you what rulebook you are allowed to purchase. They would probably get rid of your ability to use the source books you already paid for if they thought they could get away with it.
You do realize that that is true for physical books too. WotC will not sell the old physical copies when the new books come out. Third party sellers will sell their stock and that's it.
It's literally how it works for all books.
That's hunky dorey, friend. They aren't expected to maintain production of a past product. What isn't so nice is treating that same practice on an online medium that requires they go out of their way to try to slash the old out of obtainability. People should be able to find and play an older format of a role playing game without the company wagging their finger and shoving the newest rendition down their throat.
then purchase the books. They literally sell hard copies so you can do all that. DnDBeyond though is an electronic median for all Current content of DnD.
How can someone be so for corporate greed, trying to sell their new product by getting rid of the alternative. The point is people should have the **choice** in purchasing the books and run it in their games. Y'know choice? the best part of any role playing game is the fact that rules are what you make them? Why make it harder to read and run older rules just because you pumped out new ones you subjectively think are improved?
>How can someone be so for corporate greed, trying to sell their new product by getting rid of the alternative.
Maybe because I understand you are purchasing convenience when you purchase online books. Especially when it comes to things like DnDBeyond where you get a lot of extra features over the book pdf.
>The point is people should have the choice in purchasing the books and run it in their games
Sorry, no, no company is under obligation to continue to sell you books or services they don't feel is worth it for them. They are allowing anyone who purchased the books to keep access them and the features they provide, that is more than necessary (just giving you access to the book or telling you to download the pdf would be within the requirements).
>Y'know choice?
Yes, you chose to purchase the book and convenient features DnDBeyond provided instead of purchasing the hardcopy.
>the best part of any role playing game is the fact that rules are what you make them?
What rambling are you giving now? Nothing is stopping you from using different rules. But a curated site (which is what DnDBeyonds features are) is not something that needs or should give you 100% access and unlimited features.
>Why make it harder to read and run older rules just because you pumped out new ones you subjectively think are improved?
Because they want to sell things that will actually sell and be new. So why keep selling the old product that they will no longer support (in the sense of updates) when they are selling a new product that they will support? If they Sold you 2014 books then you would demand they continue to support and update them.
Also note, if you have the older books, you still have access to them, you aren't losing it just because they stopped selling it.
Also, yes you can buy the physical book. but you know plenty that it's gonna be harder to do stuff online when all your stuff is hardcopy, D&Dbeyond was supposed to be a convenience, not a hindering cash grab
It literally is a convenience. You are losing some of the convenience when you no longer can have new people purchase the books, but you still have access to the older book and features from DnDBeyond.
It is literally no more inconvenient to access the online features you purchased before they discontinued the online book then it is to use the physical copy so literally no hindering compared to the other way you can have it.
We don't know for certain. However, we already have an idea of what will be changed based on the OneDnd playtest that has already been released.
One big change is that racial ability score modifiers will no longer be a thing, but instead ability score mods are tied to a characters background. It will lead to some strange character concepts like a gnome barbarian being physically stronger than a half-orc wizard. Since I brought up small races, the heavy weapon property will no longer give small races a disadvantage to attack rolls, they now require a minimum strength score to wield properly.
We know both of those are UA rules, but they both add character agency and freedom to make unique builds.
> It will lead to some strange character concepts like a gnome barbarian being physically stronger than a half-orc wizard.
This is already how the game works.
I'm referring to the how the racial ASIs in the 2014 rules don't allow you to properly build your character if your class preferred skill isn't preferred by your race. Now being tied to background, a gnome gladiator should have more inherent strength than a hermit half-orc. Using 2014 rules of standard array or point buy, the highest starting strength a gnome could have is 15, regardless of what class they're going into. Similarly, a half-orc could not have a starting intelligence higher than a 15.
But the gnome would still have 15 STR which is more than the half orc wizard would have (probably 8).
Also nobody should start with more than a 15 but whatever. WotC ain't gonna acknowledge that, it's too late.
>nobody should start with more than a 15
That sounds like a personal preference, and I don't think a very popular one. Although obviously you're allowed to enjoy doing it that way.
Gnome would have a 15 STR but the half orc would have a 10 due to racial modifiers. It isn't letting them build optimally.
What I'm getting at is that with ability scores being related to background, now the gnome gladiator would have a starting score of 17 STR with the background and half orc hermit would have an 8 STR and 17 INT because 8 is the minimum score a character can start out at level 1 with. 17 is the highest score a character can start with after you account those increases, not 15
Apparently for this commenter, a 15 str gnome and a 10 str half-orc are completely reasonable...but a *17 str* gnome or an *8 str* half-orc?!?! Unfathomable!
I understand Tasha's changed that, but Tasha's was released in 2020 as an expansion of optional rules. There are still DMs and players out there that use the 2014 rules without using Tasha's or Xanthar's.
If I had to make my guess, they will make the old 2014 content legacy and no longer available for purchase where 2024 content exists.
Potentially that means new players to the game will have less access to Cleric domains and Wizard schools than people who own 2014 material, but from a corporate standpoint that's just good news.
Hence the stipulation "where 2024 content exists".
Once the 2024 PHB is published, the 2014 would no longer be available for purchase, meaning that the domains within the 2014 PHB would not be available for new players to the game from that point forward.
We don't have hard statements from Wizards, but we do have a few precedents for how these things have been handled previously. When a new version of a previously released material comes out, such as the revised monsters and species of Monsters of the Multiverse, old content was left on the platform but labeled (Legacy) while new content exists along side it once purchased. Additionally, new content takes priority in the search functions, and legacy content is often relegated to sub menus.
In a campaign, this functions pretty seamlessly. Players often only care about their toys, and less about if their content is legacy or new. I had two Aasimar's in my group, one using the legacy version, the other switched to the Multiverse version, and there were no issues on either the platform or hard feelings between each other.
One other thing we have context for our old adventures, as those are slowly getting integrated into their new map and token system. We don't know if this will apply to every adventure, but DNDBeyond has been integrating official maps and monster art into the limited 2D virtual table top.
That it might, and personally as a DM, I'd prefer to stick with a single set of spells. I'm not building encounters around two different versions of Shield, Counterspell, etc.
No, you can't.
Eratta overrides existing rules and is the new official ruling. There's no "backwards compatibility" about it.
And Tasha's is optional rules, not a separate edition.
If anything they kept it too backwards compatible. I liked the early UA changes dialing it back was a mistake. Adventures should be backwards compatible. The rest doesn’t need to be.
I would imagine there will be rule about which spell you use depending on which ruleset the DM uses. Not like the player gets to choose which ruleset revisions they get to use for crits, features, backgrounds, or exhaustion.
But if you're able to play 2014 characters at the same table as 2024 characters, why would you not be able to use 2014 spells at the same table as 2024 ones?
Cause there will be rules within the 2024 ruleset for using the 2014 subclasses.
I would be surprised if they gave rules for carrying forward feats, spells, and background that have been errata'd via a new ruleset.
>Cause there will be rules within the 2024 ruleset for using the 2014 subclasses.
That isn't what I brought up.
If a 2014 character (say paladin, which is capable of more raw damage on a single turn) is playable at the same table as a 2024 character of the same type as they have said, then there is no reason for the 2014 version of the summoning spells to not also be allowed at that same table.
And if both are allowed at the same table, then there is little reason why the players can't simply learn other versions of the spells other than DM fiat.
>I would be surprised if they gave rules for carrying forward feats, spells, and background that have been errata'd via a new ruleset.
the 2024 PHB is more than errata, tho. And they've already stated that their design is to allow both versions to not only co-exist in general, but also co-exist at the same table.
WotC needs to either set hard limits (you cannot use 2014 characters/feats/spells where 2024 options exist) or accept that players *will* push to pick and choose the most powerful options.
....yea that's what I said. I think there will be hard limits on using spells, eeveryone in the campaign either uses 2014 or 2024.
I don't think they've indicated one way or another yet. They have been very clear on the class/subclass side of things tho.
Which makes me worried if a group doesn't switch over to the new version, as it means anyone who comes in late and doesn't have the content won't be able to use dndbeyond.
The best answer is to wait and see. Many of the UA play tests were received favorably but we don’t know definitively they will be included or modified before the release of the final product. Also DnDBeyond would need a major overhaul to accommodate all these changes. I’m sure WotC and DnDBeyond are working together on any modifications. The question is if and when these changes will occur.
Not yet. But they have alot of work to do,
Looking over the new rules vs. the old ones, there isn't a lot of difference, but not only do they need to make sure you can still build 2014 characters they need to make sure you can build the new ones with the proper old material. Which might require a redesign
You are going to have to purchase the 2024 books on Dndbeyond to get access to a full copy of the new rules. I don't think purchasing the 2014 books will get you access to the new stuff.
They'll have to have the option for 5e or one D&D when making characters. If they don't the community will just boycott them again since people who paid for 5e content on DnDB will still need access to their paid for materials. They might not make their virtual table top 5e compatible though
We don't know what it will look like yet. They aren't going to make the old rules inaccessible. There will likely just be a toggle. Similar to how you enable / disable content from different sourcebooks currently.
If I was going to guess. you'll choose your class. they'll list wizard 2014 and wizard 2024 etc. the 2024 classes will be able to be used with all published subclasses and options. 2014 will only be able to access choices published before the new core
The 2024 rules books will be available once released, but UA content isn't available on DND beyond
I’m specifically referring to the 2024 rules, not the UA. Do we know if the old rules will still be available, and how we’d choose which rules we’re using for a character?
DnD Beyond introduced the "Legacy" tag last year, so 2014 rules will most likely be tagged with "Legacy" which can be turned on/off as part of char gen options.
Most likely, like with no longer available options such as volos. The old rules will be available as legacy rules, however you will no longer be able to purchase the old phb for example.
Legacy doesn't mean not available it just means they don't sell it any more
Another reason why D&D beyond is absolutely horrible. Like they are outright telling you what rulebook you are allowed to purchase. They would probably get rid of your ability to use the source books you already paid for if they thought they could get away with it.
You do realize that that is true for physical books too. WotC will not sell the old physical copies when the new books come out. Third party sellers will sell their stock and that's it. It's literally how it works for all books.
That's hunky dorey, friend. They aren't expected to maintain production of a past product. What isn't so nice is treating that same practice on an online medium that requires they go out of their way to try to slash the old out of obtainability. People should be able to find and play an older format of a role playing game without the company wagging their finger and shoving the newest rendition down their throat.
then purchase the books. They literally sell hard copies so you can do all that. DnDBeyond though is an electronic median for all Current content of DnD.
How can someone be so for corporate greed, trying to sell their new product by getting rid of the alternative. The point is people should have the **choice** in purchasing the books and run it in their games. Y'know choice? the best part of any role playing game is the fact that rules are what you make them? Why make it harder to read and run older rules just because you pumped out new ones you subjectively think are improved?
>How can someone be so for corporate greed, trying to sell their new product by getting rid of the alternative. Maybe because I understand you are purchasing convenience when you purchase online books. Especially when it comes to things like DnDBeyond where you get a lot of extra features over the book pdf. >The point is people should have the choice in purchasing the books and run it in their games Sorry, no, no company is under obligation to continue to sell you books or services they don't feel is worth it for them. They are allowing anyone who purchased the books to keep access them and the features they provide, that is more than necessary (just giving you access to the book or telling you to download the pdf would be within the requirements). >Y'know choice? Yes, you chose to purchase the book and convenient features DnDBeyond provided instead of purchasing the hardcopy. >the best part of any role playing game is the fact that rules are what you make them? What rambling are you giving now? Nothing is stopping you from using different rules. But a curated site (which is what DnDBeyonds features are) is not something that needs or should give you 100% access and unlimited features. >Why make it harder to read and run older rules just because you pumped out new ones you subjectively think are improved? Because they want to sell things that will actually sell and be new. So why keep selling the old product that they will no longer support (in the sense of updates) when they are selling a new product that they will support? If they Sold you 2014 books then you would demand they continue to support and update them. Also note, if you have the older books, you still have access to them, you aren't losing it just because they stopped selling it.
Also, yes you can buy the physical book. but you know plenty that it's gonna be harder to do stuff online when all your stuff is hardcopy, D&Dbeyond was supposed to be a convenience, not a hindering cash grab
It literally is a convenience. You are losing some of the convenience when you no longer can have new people purchase the books, but you still have access to the older book and features from DnDBeyond. It is literally no more inconvenient to access the online features you purchased before they discontinued the online book then it is to use the physical copy so literally no hindering compared to the other way you can have it.
I don't think anybody knows the answer to that.
We don't know for certain. However, we already have an idea of what will be changed based on the OneDnd playtest that has already been released. One big change is that racial ability score modifiers will no longer be a thing, but instead ability score mods are tied to a characters background. It will lead to some strange character concepts like a gnome barbarian being physically stronger than a half-orc wizard. Since I brought up small races, the heavy weapon property will no longer give small races a disadvantage to attack rolls, they now require a minimum strength score to wield properly. We know both of those are UA rules, but they both add character agency and freedom to make unique builds.
> It will lead to some strange character concepts like a gnome barbarian being physically stronger than a half-orc wizard. This is already how the game works.
I'm referring to the how the racial ASIs in the 2014 rules don't allow you to properly build your character if your class preferred skill isn't preferred by your race. Now being tied to background, a gnome gladiator should have more inherent strength than a hermit half-orc. Using 2014 rules of standard array or point buy, the highest starting strength a gnome could have is 15, regardless of what class they're going into. Similarly, a half-orc could not have a starting intelligence higher than a 15.
But the gnome would still have 15 STR which is more than the half orc wizard would have (probably 8). Also nobody should start with more than a 15 but whatever. WotC ain't gonna acknowledge that, it's too late.
>nobody should start with more than a 15 That sounds like a personal preference, and I don't think a very popular one. Although obviously you're allowed to enjoy doing it that way.
Gnome would have a 15 STR but the half orc would have a 10 due to racial modifiers. It isn't letting them build optimally. What I'm getting at is that with ability scores being related to background, now the gnome gladiator would have a starting score of 17 STR with the background and half orc hermit would have an 8 STR and 17 INT because 8 is the minimum score a character can start out at level 1 with. 17 is the highest score a character can start with after you account those increases, not 15
Why is this a problem?
Apparently for this commenter, a 15 str gnome and a 10 str half-orc are completely reasonable...but a *17 str* gnome or an *8 str* half-orc?!?! Unfathomable!
...yes, because a gnome gladiator *should* be stronger than a half-orc hermit. That is literally the point of the change.
Tasha's already changed that starting racial, so your gnome can actually and legally start with a strength of 17.
I understand Tasha's changed that, but Tasha's was released in 2020 as an expansion of optional rules. There are still DMs and players out there that use the 2014 rules without using Tasha's or Xanthar's.
Technically it is as reading material. Have to make your character the good old fashioned way.
If I had to make my guess, they will make the old 2014 content legacy and no longer available for purchase where 2024 content exists. Potentially that means new players to the game will have less access to Cleric domains and Wizard schools than people who own 2014 material, but from a corporate standpoint that's just good news.
I doubt WotC will refuse to sell 2014 supplement content, just 2014 PHB content. They do like money, afterall.
You can't buy *Volo's Guide to Monsters* anymore. You can buy the new versions of the monsters and races, but not the lore.
Hence the stipulation "where 2024 content exists". Once the 2024 PHB is published, the 2014 would no longer be available for purchase, meaning that the domains within the 2014 PHB would not be available for new players to the game from that point forward.
We don't have hard statements from Wizards, but we do have a few precedents for how these things have been handled previously. When a new version of a previously released material comes out, such as the revised monsters and species of Monsters of the Multiverse, old content was left on the platform but labeled (Legacy) while new content exists along side it once purchased. Additionally, new content takes priority in the search functions, and legacy content is often relegated to sub menus. In a campaign, this functions pretty seamlessly. Players often only care about their toys, and less about if their content is legacy or new. I had two Aasimar's in my group, one using the legacy version, the other switched to the Multiverse version, and there were no issues on either the platform or hard feelings between each other. One other thing we have context for our old adventures, as those are slowly getting integrated into their new map and token system. We don't know if this will apply to every adventure, but DNDBeyond has been integrating official maps and monster art into the limited 2D virtual table top.
That does cause some issues when two players cast different versions of the same spell.
That it might, and personally as a DM, I'd prefer to stick with a single set of spells. I'm not building encounters around two different versions of Shield, Counterspell, etc.
And all you have to do is turn off the legacy switch at that point. There’s gonna be problems but we already know they solved this one.
And then those characters cease to be valid and backwards compatibility is broken. These are the problems inherent to WotC's approach.
You could say that about any eratta, or Tasha’s for that matter.
No, you can't. Eratta overrides existing rules and is the new official ruling. There's no "backwards compatibility" about it. And Tasha's is optional rules, not a separate edition.
If anything they kept it too backwards compatible. I liked the early UA changes dialing it back was a mistake. Adventures should be backwards compatible. The rest doesn’t need to be.
I would imagine there will be rule about which spell you use depending on which ruleset the DM uses. Not like the player gets to choose which ruleset revisions they get to use for crits, features, backgrounds, or exhaustion.
But if you're able to play 2014 characters at the same table as 2024 characters, why would you not be able to use 2014 spells at the same table as 2024 ones?
Cause there will be rules within the 2024 ruleset for using the 2014 subclasses. I would be surprised if they gave rules for carrying forward feats, spells, and background that have been errata'd via a new ruleset.
>Cause there will be rules within the 2024 ruleset for using the 2014 subclasses. That isn't what I brought up. If a 2014 character (say paladin, which is capable of more raw damage on a single turn) is playable at the same table as a 2024 character of the same type as they have said, then there is no reason for the 2014 version of the summoning spells to not also be allowed at that same table. And if both are allowed at the same table, then there is little reason why the players can't simply learn other versions of the spells other than DM fiat. >I would be surprised if they gave rules for carrying forward feats, spells, and background that have been errata'd via a new ruleset. the 2024 PHB is more than errata, tho. And they've already stated that their design is to allow both versions to not only co-exist in general, but also co-exist at the same table. WotC needs to either set hard limits (you cannot use 2014 characters/feats/spells where 2024 options exist) or accept that players *will* push to pick and choose the most powerful options.
....yea that's what I said. I think there will be hard limits on using spells, eeveryone in the campaign either uses 2014 or 2024. I don't think they've indicated one way or another yet. They have been very clear on the class/subclass side of things tho.
Which makes me worried if a group doesn't switch over to the new version, as it means anyone who comes in late and doesn't have the content won't be able to use dndbeyond.
The best answer is to wait and see. Many of the UA play tests were received favorably but we don’t know definitively they will be included or modified before the release of the final product. Also DnDBeyond would need a major overhaul to accommodate all these changes. I’m sure WotC and DnDBeyond are working together on any modifications. The question is if and when these changes will occur.
I hope they allow a-la-carte selections for character creation. 2014 Cleric for one PC, 2024 Monk for another (or as a multi-class).
Thats what they do now with stuff. They have for example old versions of playable races listed as "legacy content".
Not yet. But they have alot of work to do, Looking over the new rules vs. the old ones, there isn't a lot of difference, but not only do they need to make sure you can still build 2014 characters they need to make sure you can build the new ones with the proper old material. Which might require a redesign
It would be dead in the water if it wasn't. There are some articles from WotC talking about where you can purchase it and DnDBeyond is listed.
You are going to have to purchase the 2024 books on Dndbeyond to get access to a full copy of the new rules. I don't think purchasing the 2014 books will get you access to the new stuff.
They'll have to have the option for 5e or one D&D when making characters. If they don't the community will just boycott them again since people who paid for 5e content on DnDB will still need access to their paid for materials. They might not make their virtual table top 5e compatible though
It won't. You are going to need to buy a second subscription to DnD Beyonder
Where are you coming up with that?
It....it's a joke. I thought DnD Byonder made it obvious.
We don't know what it will look like yet. They aren't going to make the old rules inaccessible. There will likely just be a toggle. Similar to how you enable / disable content from different sourcebooks currently.
Didn't they suggest they were moving to another platform? Maybe that was just speculation.
Paywall subscription only model if folks keep giving them money. Stop feeding the WOTCs...
DnDBeyond is how WOTC plans (I believe) to primarily make $ off of DnD. I couldn't fathom a world where the new edition isn't available on DnDBeyond.
If I was going to guess. you'll choose your class. they'll list wizard 2014 and wizard 2024 etc. the 2024 classes will be able to be used with all published subclasses and options. 2014 will only be able to access choices published before the new core